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6 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I also read some gymnastics discussion boards where when Tatiana came out with her story fans were again saying how Shannon Miller deserved the gold, etc. Like that has anything to do with anything. Ugh.

And because this deserves to be said: Tatiana was an awesome gymnast. Her beam routine with a few adjustments in terms of turns and leaps could have a great start value today:

 

That bullshit comes up every time someone comes forward with a rape claim. Well, she must be doing it for some reason. All those actresses? Well, they must be out to get something or ruin him. Tatiana? Must have come forward because of a questionable decision made decades ago. Yeah, that's it. It can't be because she was raped and finally got the courage to come forward and knowing how rape victims usually get treated when they do. That takes a lot of courage and guts. 

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11 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Didn’t some of the rhythmic gymnasts get temporary suspensions for taking diuretics?

Yes, both Alina Kabaeva and Irina Tchachina were banned and stripped of their medals back in 2001.

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Another article about Maggie Haney.

One excerpt:

Quote

Other teammates, she said, were similarly trying to cope. One, she said, was so scared of Haney that she would throw up before every practice.

The coach, she said, would also talk badly about Wanda Hernandez at the gym, saying things like “you should trust nobody because your parents are just going to kick you to the curb.”

 

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The Olympics channel is showing the 1996 final again and is it weird to be angry 24 years later that Shannon Miller got a 9.787 on the uneven bars?

I don’t know if the original broadcast showed it, but someone, possibly a Russian, was doing floor to “Danse Macabre Op. 40” in the background and that sounds like it would have been great to see.

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On 4/30/2020 at 4:37 PM, andromeda331 said:

That bullshit comes up every time someone comes forward with a rape claim. Well, she must be doing it for some reason. All those actresses? Well, they must be out to get something or ruin him. Tatiana? Must have come forward because of a questionable decision made decades ago. Yeah, that's it. It can't be because she was raped and finally got the courage to come forward and knowing how rape victims usually get treated when they do. That takes a lot of courage and guts. 

As well as the usual "he has tons of women, ergo he wouldn't need to rape anyone" crap.

Nobody "needs" to rape anyone, period. Rapists don't commit rape because they don't have an available/willing/attractive partner, they rape because they're RAPISTS. 

No matter how long it's been since someone had sex or how desperate they are to get laid, they can always find a CONSENTING partner instead of forcing themselves on someone.

I've been rewatching the 1996 team final--and still remember watching it live. I truly believe it was one of the greatest nights in sports history. And because it was live, it made it all the more nail-biting and tense, especially at the end when Moceanu fell twice and Strug fell once. I actually changed the channel when she did her second vault because I was so afraid that she'd fall again and when I turned back and saw her on the floor crying, I thought she had and that we'd lost.

With all due respect to the London and Rio teams, the Atlanta team will always be the best. For starters, their victory is what kicked off the US' dominance in women's gymnastics.

In Rio, the team was expected to win the gold from the get-go and was so far ahead after the preliminary round that the commentators half-seriously said that they could perform terribly in the finals and still win.

It was different in Atlanta. We weren't expected to win gold and we were in second place after the prelims. Although they've made things harder with only five gymnasts per team and only three allowed to perform on each apparatus, it couldn't have been much easier to have seven gymnasts on the team and everyone having to perform in every event. Especially since they were in second place and therefore needed everyone to do their best even if they did drop the highest and lowest scores.

I hate to be mean, but is anyone else getting tired of seeing the Russians and Romanians weep and wail every time they don't get the gold? It's been going on since 1996. You guys got the gold or silver every year, give someone else a chance.

Edited by Camille
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47 minutes ago, Camille said:

 

I've been rewatching the 1996 team final--and still remember watching it live. I truly believe it was one of the greatest nights in sports history. And because it was live, it made it all the more nail-biting and tense, especially at the end when Moceanu fell twice and Strug fell once. I actually changed the channel when she did her second vault because I was so afraid that she'd fall again and when I turned back and saw her on the floor crying, I thought she had and that we'd lost.

With all due respect to the London and Rio teams, the Atlanta team will always be the best. In Rio, the team was expected to win the gold from the get-go and was so far ahead after the preliminary round that the commentators half-seriously said that they could perform terribly in the finals and still win.

It was different in Atlanta. We weren't expected to win gold and we were in second place after the prelims. Although they've made things harder with only five gymnasts per team and only three allowed to perform on each apparatus, it couldn't have been much easier to have seven gymnasts on the team and everyone having to perform in every event. Especially since they were in second place and therefore needed everyone to do their best even if they did drop the highest and lowest scores.

I hate to be mean, but is anyone else getting tired of seeing the Russians and Romanians weep and wail every time they don't get the gold? It's been going on since 1996. You guys got the gold or silver every year, give someone else a chance.

It's a Russian thing, but not really a Romanian thing. They have hardly ever been favorites--maybe in '96 but they were surprise winners in both 2000 and 2004. The Russian thing--well, I can't really fault someone for being upset they didn't win, that is the essence of very strong competitors. I can fault some of them for pouting (Komova in 2011), trash-talking the winners by accusing them of juicing (Komova in 2015, Paseka re: Simone in the media), general poor sportsmanship (Khorkina ad nauseum). I'm not sure where it comes from--part of me thinks it's a hangover from the Soviet days when they really were expected to win ALL the time, but we're a generation past that. At some point, you move on. There is a general attitude among some Russian fans that the Americans aren't "legitimate" winners, that the Russians are unquestionably better and when they lose it's due to shenanigans, or favoritism, or PC. They'll bend over backwards to rationalize why Gabby beat Komova--"they wanted a black girl that year." No, Vika took several steps out of her vault. That's it. That's the explanation. Vika probably should've won that year but she herself lost it, and also Gabby performed perfectly at the right time. There's one blog in particular that's notorious for its Russian chauvinism. I do think this attitude is starting to go way over time though--for one thing, you can't rationalize Simone's prowess, at some point you simply have to acknowledge how much better she is than everyone else.

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1 hour ago, mojoween said:

The Olympics channel is showing the 1996 final again and is it weird to be angry 24 years later that Shannon Miller got a 9.787 on the uneven bars?

I think it was an appropriate score since she under-rotated her double layout dismount and had to pike the second flip in order to get the stick. I am still angry at Nunno for making the dismount change because Shannon had done the tucked full-in well for years and her routine already had what was needed to be competitive.

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10 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

from--part of me thinks it's a hangover from the Soviet days when they really were expected to win ALL the time,

I think that's exactly it. Even with the collapse of the Soviet Union in '91, the Unified Team still dominated at both of the '92 Olympics. Even with things being settled by 1996, Russia was still a dominant force and was indeed expected to prevail as always. They still are, even as China has taken over (or at the very least, become equivalent) as the new sports superpower.

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12 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Gymnasts from around the world.

 

They must be going crazy from the lack of exercise. I know I am (used to walking miles every day as I work all over the city).

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I don’t judge any gymnasts anymore for crying when they lose. After learning about all the horrific abuse that goes on behind the scenes when I see replays of Viktoria Komova crying all I think is “there’s more than disappointment, she might be fearful.” 

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3 hours ago, Camille said:

As well as the usual "he has tons of women, ergo he wouldn't need to rape anyone" crap.

Nobody "needs" to rape anyone, period. Rapists don't commit rape because they don't have an available/willing/attractive partner, they rape because they're RAPISTS. 

No matter how long it's been since someone had sex or how desperate they are to get laid, they can always find a CONSENTING partner instead of forcing themselves on someone.

Exactly! No one needs to rape anyone. And for rapist it has nothing to do with unable to find a willing partner. Its not hard to find a consenting one or head off to find a prostitute to pay for sex. For rapists it has nothing to do with sex, its all about power. I don't understand how its so hard to understand. Its very easy. 

Quote

 

I've been rewatching the 1996 team final--and still remember watching it live. I truly believe it was one of the greatest nights in sports history. And because it was live, it made it all the more nail-biting and tense, especially at the end when Moceanu fell twice and Strug fell once. I actually changed the channel when she did her second vault because I was so afraid that she'd fall again and when I turned back and saw her on the floor crying, I thought she had and that we'd lost.

With all due respect to the London and Rio teams, the Atlanta team will always be the best. For starters, their victory is what kicked off the US' dominance in women's gymnastics.

In Rio, the team was expected to win the gold from the get-go and was so far ahead after the preliminary round that the commentators half-seriously said that they could perform terribly in the finals and still win.

It was different in Atlanta. We weren't expected to win gold and we were in second place after the prelims. Although they've made things harder with only five gymnasts per team and only three allowed to perform on each apparatus, it couldn't have been much easier to have seven gymnasts on the team and everyone having to perform in every event. Especially since they were in second place and therefore needed everyone to do their best even if they did drop the highest and lowest scores.

I hate to be mean, but is anyone else getting tired of seeing the Russians and Romanians weep and wail every time they don't get the gold? It's been going on since 1996. You guys got the gold or silver every year, give someone else a chance.

 

It'll always be my favorite win. Because it was so uncertain. The US had never won before due to their own mistakes or questionable scoring. There was always a chance the Russians or Romanians could pull it together and win in Atlanta. Russian more likely but even though Romanian was down a gymnast it still wasn't impossible for them to win. Those are what made the competition stressful to watch. When the US pulled a head of the Russians? It was shocking! It never happened before. But there was still a lot of time for the Russians to pull ahead or for the US to mess up. My mom and I watched them at every Olympics cheering them on but they always loss. When Dominique Moceanu fell twice it felt 'oh crap the team blew it in the last rotation. Whether it was nerves, excitement, pressure or whatever. Which wasn't uncommon for the US team to blow it. We only needed one perfect vault. Just one. And then Kerri Strug not only did she fall but she injured her ankle. Its clear she injured it badly. That made it seem impossible that she could not only preform another vault perfectly on an injured ankle but be able to stick it. They had been so close. But it looked like they were going to lose again. Now we'd have to pin our hopes on Sydney hopefully for finally an US women team gymnastics win. It was especially depressing for the fans like me who thought Shannon Miller should have one that medal in Barcelona. And this really was the best team we ever had. But then she did it. Kerri not only manage to do a perfect vault but she stuck it for the time she needed. That was it! The won! The US women gymnastics team finally one the team competition! My mom and I were so excited. The whole competition was so exciting and stressful to watch. We were excited, then worried, then excited, then depressed when it looked like they weren't going to win, and then excitement and shock when they did! It was so amazing! A very exciting competition.

London was great for two reasons. The team was amazing. They did an excellent job. The second was a lot of people had said the Atlanta win had been a fluke, a mistake or something that never happened again. Or only happened cause Romanians weren't that good because they were down one of their bests or the Russians hadn't been at their best. Even though the Chinese team ended up getting stripped of their bronze medal from Sydney games which made the US team the bronze winners and of course the scores being inflated in Beijing for the Chinese team. But even with that most still thought the US win was a fluke. London and Rio proved that wasn't the case. The US could put together a great team. As a huge fan for the US gymnastics team I knew it could happen. But London and Rio finally proved that. 

I remember after the Rio win there were a couple girls at my work saying they were tired of the US always winning! The US always winning? Ah we only one three times! We lost every single time until Atlanta and every single time afterwards until London. 

I do get tired of the Russians and Romanians always crying and wail every time they don't win. The Russians in particular always blaming someone else. I really hate bad sportsmenship. As if they hadn't won tons of them in the past or that they didn't make mistakes which lead to them not winning. All the crap about how they couldn't have won in Atlanta no matter what. What do they have amnesia? It wasn't a forgone conclusion that the US was going to win. That's part of what made the competition nerve wrecking. Russia still had a huge chance to win and we couldn't count Romanian out either.  As much as I want the US team to win every time I'm fine when other times when its clear other teams are better. What I hate is when other teams win when their scores had been inflated. Had they not inflated the Chinese scores in Beijing would they really have won or would the US had won? We don't know. I was pissed on the Russians behalf and everyone else at Sydney over the vault mess up. That was bullshit. They should have started over. Or how many of US men gymnasts especially the ones in with big egos insisting they could win and then couldn't pull it together to do so. Like Sam Mikulak. Or would have won if not for their teams even though they fell.  

Of course the one downside to London and Rio is all poor girls who were being molested by Nassar AND US Gymnastics knew about it and didn't care. Those poor girls were being abused and still managed to go out there and win a gold medal? Atlanta is a little infuriating watching now because Nassar is easily seen during the competition and tended to Kerri. Knowing that he had already molested girls and would go on for next fourteen years or longer to molested so many gymnasts. 

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18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

For rapists it has nothing to do with sex, its all about power. I don't understand how its so hard to understand. Its very easy. 

No, it's society's pathetic need to blame everyone but the perpetrator for sex crimes. If it isn't somehow the victim's fault for enticing him--"She said "Hello" to him! That TRAMP!"--or failing to rebuff him--"She only told him "No" four times! If she really didn't want to have sex with him, she would have said it FIVE times! That TRAMP!"--it's his wife/girlfriend's fault for not keeping him satisfied--"She only has sex with him three times a day! That PRUDE!"

18 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It'll always be my favorite win. Because it was so uncertain

Exactly. We were only predicted to get the bronze, and even after the prelims, we were still in second place. As spectacular as the London and Rio teams were, we had that in the bag from the get-go.

It's even better that we did it in a fully attended Olympics--we couldn't even win the gold the year the Soviets boycotted because we STILL lost to Romania that year.

My problem with the Russians and Romanians always weeping and wailing about losing is that I think that they're not just upset about losing, they're upset about losing to the Americans. I can't help but think they'd be relatively fine losing to each other or China--fellow former Eastern Bloc nations or one that's still Communist itself--rather than their long time archrivals.

 

Edited by Camille
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Watching these replays especially of 2012 and 2016 makes me wonder how they’ll even approach everything that has happened since Rio. They just showed Laurie Hernandez’s floor routine, and Tim and Nastia were GUSHING over how well Maggie Haney choreographed it. And, of course, the constant mentions of how great Marta was. I just wonder that, since they’ve had time for some introspection, if they’ll be any different in Tokyo. I mean, they both had to have heard some rumblings about what was going on. 

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I suspect they will try very hard not to mention their names and/or gloss it over.  The network, the USGA (if they're still around, I can't remember who is in charge) want to pretend the whole thing never happened during the Olympics.

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Yesterday I watched the 2019 World Championships Women’s Team final on NBCSports channel.  They showed a lot of vaults, but I don’t think I saw one Amanar.  Both Simone and Jade Carey did a Cheng (sp?).

Would any of you gymnastics-knowledgable folk take pity on this once- or twice-a-year gymnastics fan and explain what happened?

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On 5/27/2020 at 10:59 PM, Harry24 said:

Yesterday I watched the 2019 World Championships Women’s Team final on NBCSports channel.  They showed a lot of vaults, but I don’t think I saw one Amanar.  Both Simone and Jade Carey did a Cheng (sp?).

Would any of you gymnastics-knowledgable folk take pity on this once- or twice-a-year gymnastics fan and explain what happened?

Sure 🙂 The Amanar was devalued following the 2012 Olympics, so a lot of gymnasts stopped doing them. It's a difficult vault and because of the score change, gymnasts don't really need one to be competitive anymore. The amanar craze really kicked in because nearly everyone on the US team pre 2012 could pretty much do one which gave them a huge advantage in any competition, so a lot of other teams began training them in an attempt to remain competitive.

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10 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

Sure 🙂 The Amanar was devalued following the 2012 Olympics, so a lot of gymnasts stopped doing them. It's a difficult vault and because of the score change, gymnasts don't really need one to be competitive anymore. The amanar craze really kicked in because nearly everyone on the US team pre 2012 could pretty much do one which gave them a huge advantage in any competition, so a lot of other teams began training them in an attempt to remain competitive.

Thanks for the explanation.  Weren’t Biles and Raisman (and others?) still doing the Amanar at the 2016 Olympics?  Is it now rated lower than the vault Biles and Carey did at the 2019 worlds?

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5 hours ago, Harry24 said:

Thanks for the explanation.  Weren’t Biles and Raisman (and others?) still doing the Amanar at the 2016 Olympics?  Is it now rated lower than the vault Biles and Carey did at the 2019 worlds?

I think for event finals Biles does an Amanar and Cheng. For AA she just does the Cheng as it's a higher start value and she's very consistent on the Cheng. 

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3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I think for event finals Biles does an Amanar and Cheng. For AA she just does the Cheng as it's a higher start value and she's very consistent on the Cheng. 

I just watched the event finals a little while ago, and you’re right.  Both Biles and Carey did the Cheng is their first vault and the Amanar as their second in the event finals.  Thanks for taking the time to alert me.

I must say as amazing as these vaults are (and the men’s) I miss seeing more sticks in the vault.

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I don’t know if this is an UO, but I have been watching many gymnastics videos recently and hate the wolf turn.  It always looks out of control.  No matter how well someone performs it, it’s a hot mess and takes away from the overall performance IMO.

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On 6/1/2020 at 11:23 PM, Crs97 said:

I don’t know if this is an UO, but I have been watching many gymnastics videos recently and hate the wolf turn.  It always looks out of control.  No matter how well someone performs it, it’s a hot mess and takes away from the overall performance IMO.

You are not alone. A lot of people hate the wolf turn. LOL.

The only person (I can recall) doing it while still looking graceful and in control is Simone Biles. But even she messes up sometimes. Isn't that why she fell off the beam in the 2016 Olympics?

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2 minutes ago, topanga said:

You are not alone. A lot of people hate the wolf turn. LOL.

The only person (I can recall) doing it while still looking graceful and in control is Simone Biles. But even she messes up sometimes. Isn't that why she fell off the beam in the 2016 Olympics?

No, she misstepped (didn't fall but lost her footing a bit) on a punch front tuck. She executed the 2 1/2 wolf mount perfectly.

Teren Humphrey also did a lovely wolf turn mount in 2004. 

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4 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Teren Humphrey also did a lovely wolf turn mount in 2004. 

I will never forgive her for starting the wolf turn trend!

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6 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I think it's a great looking pose- but trying to spin doing it around is  travesty.

Exactly!  At best it involves ungainly arm thrashing.  Even Simone!

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1 hour ago, Crs97 said:

I really thought it was just a pet peeve of mine.  I had no idea I was joining a movement!

Jordan Chiles might have my favorite wolf turn hot mess.

I like to think of that as a jazz Okino--a triple turn with a bent leg 🙂 

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RIP, Kurt Thomas

What an unexpected loss.  Prayers for his family.

He was the first male gymnast whose gymnastics excited me.  I remember that he was never close to the other US guys (Bart, Mitch, Tim) but no one ever denied his accomplishments.  It was devastating to me when we boycotted the Moscow Olympics.  

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Watched Athlete A last night. Maggie Nichols was definitely screwed of her Olympic dream by Steve Penny and Marta Karolyi because she dared to speak up. What an insufferable ass Penny is. 

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On 6/25/2020 at 10:58 AM, ChicksDigScars said:

Watched Athlete A last night. Maggie Nichols was definitely screwed of her Olympic dream by Steve Penny and Marta Karolyi because she dared to speak up. What an insufferable ass Penny is. 

She definitely was. Those poor girls were failed on so many levels. Their doctor sexually abused them, coaches that physically(and probably mentally) abused them, USA Gymnastics didn't give a fuck about what happened to the girls. It was a hard watch, I felt it was well made, and time flew by. Those videos of Nassar treating girls were really uncomfortable to watch.

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4 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

She definitely was. Those poor girls were failed on so many levels. Their doctor sexually abused them, coaches that physically(and probably mentally) abused them, USA Gymnastics didn't give a fuck about what happened to the girls. It was a hard watch, I felt it was well made, and time flew by. Those videos of Nassar treating girls were really uncomfortable to watch.

I just finished watching it, and I was appalled. I can’t believe the amount of abuse that was happening, everyone knew, and no one did ANYTHING!  I’m an Olympic gymnastics watcher (or if I happen to randomly discover it on TV in off years), so I had no idea what was really happening at the ranch or how much control USAG had over these athletes.  They ALL need to go to jail - Penny, the Karolyis, any coaches who knew, the whole lot of them. We did sacrifice our children for gold medals. 

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I watched Athlete A as well. Like others, I am outraged at what happened with Maggie Nichols. She deserved to be on the 2016 Olympic team, far more than Gabby Douglas did, IMO. I know she quit elite gymnastics, but I wish they were forced to give her a spot on the 2021 Tokyo team to make up for the assholery in 2016. 

Also, while the moment Kerri Strug landed that vault is amazing, I appreciated Jennifer Sey's take on it; Kerri didn't have a choice. I also couldn't believe that Nassar had the nerve to sexually assault Denhollander while her mother was in the room! WTF?

It's a well done documentary. I do recommend.

Edited by PepSinger
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I watched it as well. It was really, really tough to watch, and I hope everyone does. We already knew how unthinkable and appalling this coverup was, but seeing the way it played out for Maggie made it so real. One thing that they didn’t really emphasize strongly that I know we’ve discussed here before is that ultimately Maggie’s experience was only reported because her coach overheard her talking to Aly and acted. God knows how many other coaches overheard or were directly told similar things and shrugged it off.


Steve Penny might as well be the face of evil along with Nassar. His reaction to this situation, over and over, seemed to be impatience and barely concealed annoyance, as though his kids were complaining in the backseat while he was driving. Thank god for the investigator who wouldn’t allow Nassar to medical speak his way out of the abuse charges in his manner that was somehow both conspiratorial (the implication mounting to “of course sometimes these things happen and we both have to say we dealt with it even though of course we both know it’s nonsense”) and condescending (lists a bunch of anatomical terms, “of course you won’t understand all this...”) Coincidence that it was a woman? I’m going to say no. 

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