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SophiaD

By SophiaD
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peachmangosteen
peachmangosteen

I'm sorry, but that reasoning is bullshit. So, you're not gonna get a vaccine that might keep you from training for a couple days to protect yourself against a virus that could keep you from training

Crs97
Crs97

To me it’s no different than if Simone had sprained her ankle, had to withdraw from the team round, and will be evaluated daily to see when/if it is healed enough to continue. I am so glad we are

Conotocarious
Conotocarious

To me it seems like people in this country simply cannot comprehend the severity of the situation until utter disaster strikes. If she had pushed through and ended up with a catastrophic injury, the “

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Jeddah

Jeddah

20 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Maggie Nichols and her coach are heroes in this story. 

They really are. Good for her coach for figuring out what was happening based on an overheard conversation and immediately reporting it. How many other adults overheard something and just ignored it?

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choclatechip45

choclatechip45

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

They really are. Good for her coach for figuring out what was happening based on an overheard conversation and immediately reporting it. How many other adults overheard something and just ignored it?

That’s the sad part we will never know. 

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Mikita

Mikita

I continue to be angry about this. Proud of all of the ladies. I sincerely hope that both Larry Nassar and USGA burn in hell. I'm flabbergasted that they are continuing camps at the Karolyi Ranch. Did no one think about this all of these months? Don't go Simone. If she doesn't, they will be forced to find a new location.

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Jillibean

Jillibean

14 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

A million times yes to what Aly says:

https://deadspin.com/aly-raisman-says-usa-gymnastics-should-stop-sending-ath-1822127876

 

Good for Aly. It's really awful that apparently I have to drop in once a month to reiterate how horrifying and disturbing it is that there hasn't been a complete cleaning of the house of the executives in USA Gymnastics. It seems like their entire response has basically been, "Oops! Well, it's over now, though!" with no preventative steps to address the fact that culture and bureaucracy, not the man himself, are what created this situation and maintained it for an absurdly long period of time. Aly is absolutely right that they don't care. I hope the remaining sponsors pull out and choose to endorse individual athletes instead. 

What would happen if all the elite gymnasts just refused to go to the ranch?

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MostlyC

MostlyC

I think the USAG would look terrible if they left Simone off the roster because she didn't go to the ranch.  USAG will be forced to make changes as long as people keep making noise (and good for Aly leading the way!)

Is Liukin the head coach now?  I think he would welcome the good will he would generate by moving the training camps.

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Mikita

Mikita

(edited)

Liukin is Team Coordinator. They need to move camps to another location. If they cannot move to a different location, then abolish camps until they can. They also should not have monthly camps. That's too much. They really should be bimonthly.

Like I said, if Simone refuses to go they probably cancel the camps or move locations.

Edited by Mikita
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Shangrilala

Shangrilala

So we can all assume that Kyla Ross just hasn't spoken up yet, right?

Has anybody from the 2008 team identified themselves as a victim?  I feel like Nastia, Shawn, Alicia -- all of them -- have been very quiet throughout all of this, and Nassar was in Beijing. But I could have missed it.  

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HartofDixie

HartofDixie

6 minutes ago, Shangrilala said:

So we can all assume that Kyla Ross just hasn't spoken up yet, right?

Has anybody from the 2008 team identified themselves as a victim?  I feel like Nastia, Shawn, Alicia -- all of them -- have been very quiet throughout all of this, and Nassar was in Beijing. But I could have missed it.  

 

Nothing from Kyla but it’s safe to assume she’s a victim too. No one from the 2004 or 2008 teams have said a thing - the silence of the 08 team is interesting as I believe all are working in gymnastics (coaching, judging, commentating, etc).

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2018/01/19/jordyn-wieber-aly-raisman-court-make-nassar-statements/1047184001/

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

1 hour ago, Shangrilala said:

So we can all assume that Kyla Ross just hasn't spoken up yet, right?

Has anybody from the 2008 team identified themselves as a victim?  I feel like Nastia, Shawn, Alicia -- all of them -- have been very quiet throughout all of this, and Nassar was in Beijing. But I could have missed it.  

Unfortunately the odds that some/all of them were also abused are just too high. 

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Shangrilala

Shangrilala

Michigan State finally requested that the Attorney  General review the case.  

I honestly think that all of these shitheads -thought that the "problem" would just go away - not Larry Nassar.  The bad press.  The scrutiny.  That they could somehow keep it as the actions of 1 individual towards a couple of athletes.  That their crisis management teams could release canned statements that "they take the accusations most seriously and do not condone such  behavior  and that the safety of their athletes has always been their top priority" or some garbage crisis language.  (I used to work in crisis pr - I wonder how close I am to their actual official statement?)

The Detroit news is now reporting that 14 people, including the President, at MSU knew of the allegations.  

And on a separate note, the Indianapolis Star is reporting that World Team Trials for acrobatic gymnastics will still take place at the ranch because their "isn't enough time" to find someplace else.  Seriously?  Just go rent a gym.  If they wanted to truly move it, they could.  

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HartofDixie

HartofDixie

42 minutes ago, Shangrilala said:

Michigan State finally requested that the Attorney  General review the case.  

I honestly think that all of these shitheads -thought that the "problem" would just go away - not Larry Nassar.  The bad press.  The scrutiny.  That they could somehow keep it as the actions of 1 individual towards a couple of athletes.  That their crisis management teams could release canned statements that "they take the accusations most seriously and do not condone such  behavior  and that the safety of their athletes has always been their top priority" or some garbage crisis language.  (I used to work in crisis pr - I wonder how close I am to their actual official statement?)

The Detroit news is now reporting that 14 people, including the President, at MSU knew of the allegations.  

And on a separate note, the Indianapolis Star is reporting that World Team Trials for acrobatic gymnastics will still take place at the ranch because their "isn't enough time" to find someplace else.  Seriously?  Just go rent a gym.  If they wanted to truly move it, they could.  

During her statement Aly announced that gymnasts were training at the ranch when they announced the camps would no longer happen there.

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surreysmum

surreysmum

I heard this radio interview with victim Rachael Denhollander on CBC's show "The Current" this morning (I think you can get the podcast from this page, but in any case there's a decent transcript in the article):

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-january-19-2018-1.4493695/he-could-have-been-stopped-in-1997-survivor-of-larry-nassar-s-alleged-sex-abuse-says-victims-were-ignored-1.4493702

Sad, infuriating stuff.

For people interested in the Canadian angle (there have been Canadian incidents too), the show also has a brief followup on that.

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selkie

selkie

Nastia might have been somewhat protected because of who her father was- Nassar might have avoided her out of caution that she was more likely to speak up and he was more likely to go ballistic if anything improper happened. 

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Jillibean

Jillibean

(edited)
39 minutes ago, selkie said:

Nastia might have been somewhat protected because of who her father was- Nassar might have avoided her out of caution that she was more likely to speak up and he was more likely to go ballistic if anything improper happened. 

I thought the same thing. Since Nastia’s dad was also her coach he had different access, and he was high up in the USA gymnastics organization, and I do think it’s likely that she was left alone for that reason. But it’s very unlikely that the same was true of her teammates.

It also seems that some gymnasts are, understandably, still in the process of understanding that what happened to them was abuse. 

Quote

Aly Raisman is taking no prisoners and I am 100% for it.

As far as I’m concerned, Aly Raisman is a hero. Very brave of her to call out the organizations that should be held responsible even knowing how vindictive they can be.

Edited by Jillibean
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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

Honestly?  Put Aly in charge.  She doesn't have experience running anything, much less a huge organization like this one but I don't care.  She's got the fire and will and I think she could get everything done.  In lieu of that, I want Aly to go for a third Games, do well, and thumb her nose at these assholes along the way. She told Nassar that he won't take away her love for gymnastics so I say keep at it.

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GreyBunny

GreyBunny

(edited)
9 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Put Aly in charge.  She doesn't have experience running anything, much less a huge organization like this one but I don't care.  She's got the fire and will and I think she could get everything done.

Totally agree.  Her moral compass is pointed in the right direction, which is huge, and much more than can be said about Nassar, the Karolyis, or the spineless, evil cowards that run the USAG and USOC and everyone else who abused or turned a blind eye to abuse of the athletes, and that includes worthless apologists like Mary Lou Retton and Betty Okino.  I hope they all burn to the ground.

ETA: Someone upthread asked about Nastia Liukin.  I have no idea if she was shielded from Nassar but other gymnasts weren't shielded from Liukin:
 

Quote

It’s not just the sexual abuse. The frank and open discussion has created an opening for gymnasts to speak about other forms of abuse and mistreatment.

---

The week after national championships, [Katelyn] Ohashi published a blog post about her experiences with body shaming and dieting as a junior elite, citing coaches, parents, and even fans who posted nasty comments about her body on her Youtube videos and Instagram posts.

She wrote:

"It started when I was 13, barely weighing 70 pounds. I’ve been told I looked like I swallowed an elephant or a pig, whichever was more fitting that day. I was compared to a bird that was too fat to lift itself off the ground. If I “looked” bigger on a given day, I had to run and condition with heavy sweats until it seemed like I was “ready” to start practice. I’ve even been asked to sign a contract that would basically prohibit me from training if I did not lose weight."

Ohashi doesn’t specify the gym or the coach but if you’re familiar with the timeline of her career—Ohashi left her previous gym, Great American Gymnastics Express (GAGE) in Blue Springs, Missouri in 2009, when she was 12 years old—it appears that she’s talking about her experience with Liukin at WOGA, the gym he owns in Plano, Texas.

 

https://deadspin.com/abused-gymnasts-voices-are-finally-being-heard-1798687945

Edited by GreyBunny
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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

19 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

And on a separate note, the Indianapolis Star is reporting that World Team Trials for acrobatic gymnastics will still take place at the ranch because their "isn't enough time" to find someplace else.  Seriously?  Just go rent a gym.  If they wanted to truly move it, they could.  

No kidding.  There isn't a high-school or college gym in the country that wouldn't kill for a chance to host something like that.

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ombelico

ombelico

USAG has since announced that the World Team Trials will be moved, but acrobatic gymnastics literally only needs a floor mat. Every single decent gymnastics facility in the country has a floor that they could use. There was absolutely no reason they should have even been considering keeping the Trials at the Ranch.

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HartofDixie

HartofDixie

9 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

Totally agree.  Her moral compass is pointed in the right direction, which is huge, and much more than can be said about Nassar, the Karolyis, or the spineless, evil cowards that run the USAG and USOC and everyone else who abused or turned a blind eye to abuse of the athletes, and that includes worthless apologists like Mary Lou Retton and Betty Okino.  I hope they all burn to the ground.

ETA: Someone upthread asked about Nastia Liukin.  I have no idea if she was shielded from Nassar but other gymnasts weren't shielded from Liukin:
 

https://deadspin.com/abused-gymnasts-voices-are-finally-being-heard-1798687945

I’m going need to reread Little girls I’m pretty boxes. Never read Jennifer Sey’s book - she trained at Parkettes so I’m curious to see what she wrote about.

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CeeBeeGee

CeeBeeGee

8 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

I’m going need to reread Little girls I’m pretty boxes. Never read Jennifer Sey’s book - she trained at Parkettes so I’m curious to see what she wrote about.

It's quite good. Very clear-eyed with an adult perspective (completely unlike the typical post-Olympic starry-eyed "memoir" ghostwritten by teenagers). She seems to have almost no ego whatever, almost as though Spock wrote a gymnastics memoir. Between that and the CNN documentary "The Perfect 10" I pretty much despise Parkettes.

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Calvada

Calvada

Just shut up Tom Izzo. Aly Raisman's mother is right, you are a total moron.   I just bet Michigan State LOVED those comments, given their ongoing PR nightmare.  That's what happens when you enable sex abusers.  Congratulations Michigan State, you're the new Penn State.  

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Stuffy

Stuffy

2 hours ago, Calvada said:

Just shut up Tom Izzo. Aly Raisman's mother is right, you are a total moron.   I just bet Michigan State LOVED those comments, given their ongoing PR nightmare.  That's what happens when you enable sex abusers.  Congratulations Michigan State, you're the new Penn State.  

The fans attacked her in the comments so if the leadership is anything like the fans they're tone deaf. 

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CeeBeeGee

CeeBeeGee

2 hours ago, Indy said:

Reading about Mattie was heartbreaking. I knew the part about how she was blamed and shunned after Worlds but wasn't aware how her UCLA career ended. Poor girl was abused and traumatized in every way. 

SICKENING. JFC. What the hell? She had to pinch herself, she thought she was a fucking GHOST? Jesus Christ. Poor Mattie. She was such a beautiful dancer on the floor. So she messed up and we took the--gasp--silver. Why torture her? Why was her mistake so much worse than Alicia's in Beijing?

Mattie, we love you and I'm so sorry you went through this.

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Shangrilala

Shangrilala

Has Kerry Perry or any of the Board members been at the trial to hear the victim statements?  As far as I'm concerned they should be in the front row.  Every single one.  Not just because I think that they are fully accountable, but also so that when this is over, those people who are left can let these testaments guide them in any future policy decisions.

I'm curious about how the international gymnastics community is responding to this, anybody have any idea?   

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Indy

Indy

5 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

Has Kerry Perry or any of the Board members been at the trial to hear the victim statements?  As far as I'm concerned they should be in the front row.  Every single one.  Not just because I think that they are fully accountable, but also so that when this is over, those people who are left can let these testaments guide them in any future policy decisions.

Kerry Perry was there for at least a bit, I believe starting day 2. I agree that she should have been there the whole time. To listen, to learn, and to show that she truly gives an F about changing the environment that has terrorized Elite Women's gym in the US for so long  

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Shangrilala

Shangrilala

1 hour ago, HartofDixie said:

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/22181248/usa-gymnastics-suspends-former-olympics-coach-john-geddert-tied-larry-nassar

OMG!!!!!  I can't believe what I just read.  

I hate to say this but how did parents not notice this if this abusive kind of treatment was right on the floor???  

We have 4 gyms in my immediate area.  I know a little girl who was going to one of our local gyms.  At 4 they identified her to join their inhouse team.  About 1 year in, she freaked out.  Crying, didnt want to go, panicking, etc, out of the blue - very unlike her because this girl just loved to tumble around.  Her mom immediately pulled her.  The little girl refused to step foot into a gym again until this year, and they found a more relaxed atmosphere.  A similar thing happened to another girl I know at the second gym.  She wasn't on a team but once she hit 5 the pressure in the recreational classes just suddenly skyrocketed.  A girl in my daughter's kindergarten class just joined the 3rd gym in the area.  Her mom had to pay for 2 private lessons a week for about 6 weeks - in addition to the group class - to get her up to speed since at 6 years old she was already so far behind.  And we had my daughter in the 4th gym when she was 2.  What I saw was enough to not go back and what I experienced was insane (when my 2 year old was scared to jump off a tower of mats, the coaches advised that I shouldnt hold her hand but rather step back so that she was forced to do it on her own - I told the coach to shove off). 

What has happened to this sport?  Can a child not just go tumble?  Learn to cartwheel?  Why is this pressure allowed in even the small neighborhood gym?  I thought these stories were just kind of isolated things.  But I wonder if this toxic environment just stretches all the way down to the tiny club in the tiny town??

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Darknight

Darknight

On 1/17/2018 at 7:13 PM, PoshSprinkles said:

They'd be replaced, and that's precisely why USAG has the upper hand and won't be held accountable. If a girl doesn't toe the line, there's plenty of girls behind them who will and won't say or do anything to jeopardize their chances at an Olympic medal and the endorsements that come after it. 

See this is why I hope Simone is still able to go to Tokyo 2020. Another gymast spoke out and was black listed. It' sad this happened and nobody did anything. It's also sad parents will sell their own child out. 

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