S05.E08: Of Missing Minds and Missing Fries

[Pallas]

Jackie must come to terms with her mother's becoming ill. Estelle Parsons returns.

[SoMuchTV]

Who knew Lanford is such a manufacturing hub!?  Plastics we already knew about, but now acoustic tiles, ballpoint pens…

[Annber03]

I don't know what made me laugh more in that opening segment - Ben cracking up while Becky read Darlene's resume, or the fact that Mark being so tall allowed him to simply take the paper from Becky and easily keep it out of Darlene's reach XD. The way he fanned himself with the paper was great, too. 

I could relate very much to Darlene's struggle to look at online job sites, though. It's a really depressing, frustrating slog, for all the reasons she noted. 

As for the main story with Jackie and Bev...oof, that was sad. And tough :(. The Roseanne mention, and then Jackie's reaction when Bev started talking about the sock hop...that broke my heart. I can sympathize with Jackie's struggle to deal with her fraught history with Bev, but I am interested to see how she continues to help her out going forward. Be curious to see who they might get to help take care of Bev long-term.

The ending with Bev freaking out Harris in response to the "old bat" line was good :D. 

[Browncoat]

Good for Darlene for not accepting a low-ball salary.  Too many women sell themselves short like that and never catch up.

[StaceyNotStacie]

10 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I don't know what made me laugh more in that opening segment - Ben cracking up while Becky read Darlene's resume, or the fact that Mark being so tall allowed him to simply take the paper from Becky and easily keep it out of Darlene's reach XD. The way he fanned himself with the paper was great, too. 

I’m barely 5 ft tall with a son who is almost a foot taller, so that cracked me up since my son does that all the time. 
 

11 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

As for the main story with Jackie and Bev...oof, that was sad. And tough :(. The Roseanne mention, and then Jackie's reaction when Bev started talking about the sock hop...that broke my heart. I can sympathize with Jackie's struggle to deal with her fraught history with Bev, but I am interested to see how she continues to help her out going forward. Be curious to see who they might get to help take care of Bev long-term.

This was a bit hard to watch. I admit when Bev asked about Roseanne and Jackie realizing that she wasn’t playing, I got a bit teary, and that hug got to me. I know they’re trying to have a serious storyline, but I wish Bev would have asked about Andy just so Jackie could acknowledge whether or not he exists.  
 

I wonder if this is the last we’ve seen from Bev or if the story will progress onscreen until the character passes. 
 

Since Jackie seems to always be at the house, I’m just going to assume that her husband (I can’t remember his name) works long hours as one of the only veterinarians in Lanford and Jackie doesn’t like to be alone. 

[ams1001]

Who was the interviewer guy (the second one who offered her the job)? 

[cdnalor]

41 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Good for Darlene for not accepting a low-ball salary.  Too many women sell themselves short like that and never catch up.

Yeah, but she could take that job and keep sending out resumés.  If it causes friction with pen boy, the food delivery job is always there.

[Browncoat]

1 minute ago, cdnalor said:

Yeah, but she could take that job and keep sending out resumés.  If it causes friction with pen boy, the food delivery job is always there.

She could, but then the next job would look at her current salary and base their offer on that low-ball amount.  She'd cheat herself in the short run, and never catch back up in the long run.  

[cdnalor]

12 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

She could, but then the next job would look at her current salary and base their offer on that low-ball amount.  She'd cheat herself in the short run, and never catch back up in the long run.  

She doesn't have to mention that job in interviews and can just list Wellman as last employer.  I don't know if a Google search would turn up the pen factory job, though.

[Browncoat]

I just disagree with selling yourself short.  If she was making 50% more at Wellman, then that guy is seriously lowballing her, and she absolutely should negotiate.  Part of the reason women are paid less than men is because they don't negotiate.  (Not the whole reason, of course, but it does play a part.)

[UYI]

The thing that bothered me more than anything was that Bill Wellman so openly derided Darlene when contacted by potential employers; in real life, you absolutely cannot do that, because it could open up your company to a lawsuit, so most supervisors will only confirm that said former employee worked there, and the dates that they worked there. They can get around that by asking if that person is eligible for rehire or not, but that's the most they can do. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

I wonder if this is the last we’ve seen from Bev or if the story will progress onscreen until the character passes. 

Producers are hoping to schedule Estelle Parsons for another episode or two this season.

I took care of my grandpa with dementia for a while, until he needed full-time care at which point we found a care home for him.  He never didn't know who I was when I was in front of him, but he sometimes didn't when someone talked about me to him (why people feel compelled to share that, I do not know), and 20 years later I still vividly remember handing him the phone to talk to my mom and realizing he had no idea who was on the other end of the line (because she wasn't in front of him).  So this got to me beyond the characters.

I loved Jackie's angry frustration when she said she wanted to let everyone know what's going on, but knows this all falls on her, because it's so true -- if Roseanne was still alive, she'd have taken point on this like she always did, but now Jackie is the only child.

Jackie thinking Bev was faking reminded me of the time Nana Mary faked being senile to freak out Bev.  When Bev asked Jackie to tell Roseanne to come by and Jackie realized this was no prank, it was so well done by Laurie Metcalf.  "Al Harris is taking me to the sock hop" got to me, and then "Who wouldn't love you?  I know we just met, but let me give you a hug" had me in tears.  The writers perfectly broke the tension by switching to Jackie's "Let me tell you about my mom".

Nice continuity that Harris is the one occasionally spending time with Bev; that was the case in an early episode, too.  And LOL at the tag.  They seem to have forgotten Becky's affection for Bev, though.

I thought it a nice little touch that Jackie would say "VD" rather than "STI", but then Becky - who'd have come of age with "STD", so, if anything other than STI, would say that - said the same.

"Blink if I'm hired.  Okay, blink if you validate."  That first interview was pure TV, not reality, but I enjoyed Darlene in it.

And good for her standing firm on salary with the second jackhole; as noted, it's a trap women, especially, get sucked into and never climb their way out of.  I love the way she told him off. 

[kitkat343]

I really liked the Halloween episode and this one.  Glad to see the writing improving, and it's always a good day to see  Estelle Parsons.

[greekmom]

I wonder at this point if the writers just like kicking the Conners down and keeping them there.

In any other comedy, the guy who interviewed Darlene would have invited her in and we would have gotten a cut away where she goes back home and tells them happily that she got the job and close to the money that she wanted.

I say they should just put show out of its misery. 

[DanaK]

I’m skeptical that Bev was that far into dementia and still able to take care of herself and not look disheveled or smell terrible because she forgot to change her clothes or shower, which I don’t think Harris mentioned. My dad had dementia and he started to forget things, like what he had just asked me 5 minutes before, but for the most part, he didn’t start to forget to change or take a shower until my brother got he and my mom into assisted living. I don’t think he forgot who we were but he definitely had trouble remembering friends. His health went rapidly downhill when my mom passed and he died 4 months after she did. So I have a hard time buying Bev had forgotten her daughter but was still able to live alone as it seems forgetting your close loved ones is likely one of the last memories to go. And yes, the scenes with Bev were hard to watch given my experience with my dad

Edited November 17, 2022 by DanaK

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

I’m skeptical that Bev was that far into dementia and still able to take care of herself and not look disheveled or smell terrible because she forgot to change her clothes or shower, which I don’t think Harris mentioned. My dad had dementia and he started to forget things, like what he had just asked me 5 minutes before, but for the most part, he didn’t start to forget to change or take a shower until my brother got he and my mom into assisted living. I don’t think he forgot who we were but he definitely had trouble remembering friends. His health went rapidly downhill when my mom passed and he died 4 months after she did. So I have a hard time buying Bev had forgotten her daughter but was still able to live alone as it seems forgetting your close loved ones is likely one of the last memories to go. And yes, the scenes with Bev were hard to watch given my experience with my dad

Yeah, from what I've read, recent memories are the first to go; the people you've known a long time remain longer. My only personal experience with dementia is my friend's grandmother, who I knew since I was two (she died when I was around 25). The last time I saw her, she knew that she knew me, knew I was her granddaughter's long-time friend, but she couldn't remember my name. She still remembered her family (who she saw a lot more often), though.

9 hours ago, UYI said:

The thing that bothered me more than anything was that Bill Wellman so openly derided Darlene when contacted by potential employers; in real life, you absolutely cannot do that, because it could open up your company to a lawsuit, so most supervisors will only confirm that said former employee worked there, and the dates that they worked there. They can get around that by asking if that person is eligible for rehire or not, but that's the most they can do. 

Seems he's banking on the fact that she probably can't afford a lawyer. 

[KayVeeTeeVee]

11 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Who was the interviewer guy (the second one who offered her the job)? 

I think the first interviewer was Barry Livingston, from My Three Sons.  Anyone else?

[ams1001]

18 minutes ago, KayVeeTeeVee said:

I think the first interviewer was Barry Livingston, from My Three Sons.  Anyone else?

It was; he's on the IMDB page for the episode. The other interviewer isn't listed (it only lists five characters (three are main cast)...one of whom is William H. Macy as "Smitty"...did I miss him?).

[joanne3482]

13 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Who knew Lanford is such a manufacturing hub!?  Plastics we already knew about, but now acoustic tiles, ballpoint pens…

I lived in a small town in Indiana a significantly long time ago (so things likely have changed) but there were multiple small towns all immediately surrounding the town I was in and there were multiple manufacturing plants there. Like this whole purpose of this little area of towns was to supply plants with workers. 

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, Browncoat said:

She could, but then the next job would look at her current salary and base their offer on that low-ball amount.  She'd cheat herself in the short run, and never catch back up in the long run.  

This is so true and it happened to me after I was laid off during the recession over a decade ago.  It was an employer's market.  They had all the advantages and knew laid off employees were desperate.  Plus they would not negotiate, especially with women.  This would also happen if an employee was terminated.  I kept in touch with other laid off women from my former company and we all had the same experience.  This episode was spot-on about this.  After 2 years I ended up accepting at least 15-20% less than I made in my former position with a company that I knew could afford to (and did) pay more.  I didn't have much of a choice.  It was a good company and my prospects were slim.

12 hours ago, UYI said:

The thing that bothered me more than anything was that Bill Wellman so openly derided Darlene when contacted by potential employers; in real life, you absolutely cannot do that, because it could open up your company to a lawsuit, so most supervisors will only confirm that said former employee worked there, and the dates that they worked there. They can get around that by asking if that person is eligible for rehire or not, but that's the most they can do. 

I looked into this when I suspected that I was blackballed after bringing a wrongful termination lawsuit against my last company (and winning - they terminated me despite great performance reviews while I was out on workers' comp. for breaking my arm on the premises).   In most states (including mine and Illinois) there is no law against giving a bad reference if it is completely job-related.  Companies will choose not to if they are afraid of a lawsuit but that is completely voluntary.  So this part of the plot is not unrealistic.  Bill Wellman may be just the kind of arrogant guy that wouldn't care about that, like the higher ups at my old company. 

In my case I had already brought a lawsuit against them and won, so I wonder if they didn't think they had anything to lose giving me bad references as they had already lost!  They were arrogant enough to think I wouldn't bring a lawsuit against them in the first place (and they were mistaken) but I wouldn't put it past them to try to exact some revenge on me later for doing it.  I should have hired a service to pose as a prospective employer looking for a reference to find out if they were, but I never did.  And BTW, I never got another full time job either despite being called back for a second interview 3 times.  I'm OK with that now 6 years later as I'm close to retirement age anyway.  And I was able to collect workers' comp. and then unemployment benefits until the end of last year anyway.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Yeah No

[iMonrey]

Quote

Good for Darlene for not accepting a low-ball salary.  Too many women sell themselves short like that and never catch up.

I get that, but I would have been interested to know how much they were offering because it had to be better than food delivery. By playing coy with how much she made at Wellman versus what the pen guy was offering it's hard to know whether or not it was the right decision. If health care and other benefits were included it might still be worth it.

Quote

The thing that bothered me more than anything was that Bill Wellman so openly derided Darlene when contacted by potential employers; in real life, you absolutely cannot do that, because it could open up your company to a lawsuit, so most supervisors will only confirm that said former employee worked there, and the dates that they worked there. They can get around that by asking if that person is eligible for rehire or not, but that's the most they can do. 

Wellman in particular is playing a dangerous game. There is nothing to prevent Darlene from going to the media and telling them Wellman is polluting the ground water and wanted her to lie for them. I don't know if Lanford still has a local paper (probably not) but Darlene could certainly reach out to other local markets, there are still plenty of local papers in Illinois. Any one of them might find it worthwhile to investigate her claims. 

Also, the fact that Robin praised her so highly while Wellman made specious claims about her being a conspiracy theorist is mighty fishy. Darlene's explanation sounded pretty valid to me.

It was nice to see Bev again even if her story is a sad one. And it sounds like we've finally gotten confirmation that Dan's father passed away. It would have been nice if they had mentioned that back when Crystal was still on the show, or when they introduced Little Ed, but there's zero expectation of continuity on this show. Dan also has a half sister out there somewhere (the baby girl Crystal had after Little Ed). 

Edited November 17, 2022 by iMonrey

[peacheslatour]

5 hours ago, DanaK said:

I’m skeptical that Bev was that far into dementia and still able to take care of herself and not look disheveled or smell terrible because she forgot to change her clothes or shower, which I don’t think Harris mentioned. My dad had dementia and he started to forget things, like what he had just asked me 5 minutes before, but for the most part, he didn’t start to forget to change or take a shower until my brother got he and my mom into assisted living. I don’t think he forgot who we were but he definitely had trouble remembering friends. His health went rapidly downhill when my mom passed and he died 4 months after she did. So I have a hard time buying Bev had forgotten her daughter but was still able to live alone as it seems forgetting your close loved ones is likely one of the last memories to go. And yes, the scenes with Bev were hard to watch given my experience with my dad

I wondered about that too. My dad literally never washed his clothes in the last couple years before I had to put him in memory care. I took a bunch of them home to wash and some were literally too far done to get clean. I had to throw them away and buy new. He only showered because he was on auto pilot and was used to showering at his club every morning. 

[kwnyc]

14 hours ago, UYI said:

The thing that bothered me more than anything was that Bill Wellman so openly derided Darlene when contacted by potential employers; in real life, you absolutely cannot do that, because it could open up your company to a lawsuit, so most supervisors will only confirm that said former employee worked there, and the dates that they worked there. They can get around that by asking if that person is eligible for rehire or not, but that's the most they can do. 

That whole PLOT is annoying. Whistleblowers are legally protected from retaliation; you don't get unemployment if you're fired for cause; and it's illegal to trash a former employee to a potential employer (all you can legally do is confirm that they worked there and their time of employment). So Darlene could have a massive lawsuit, but that wouldn't suit the "Connors always get done dirty" theme.

Also, Estelle Parsons (Bev) is almost 96 years old! Whoa. She and Lois Smith (another NY stage actor) is still working at 92, and won a Tony in 2020. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by kwnyc

[StaceyNotStacie]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I get that, but I would have been interested to know how much they were offering because it had to be better than food delivery. By playing coy with how much she made at Wellman versus what the pen guy was offering it's hard to know whether or not it was the right decision. If health care and other benefits were included it might still be worth it.

Wellman in particular is playing a dangerous game. There is nothing to prevent Darlene from going to the media and telling them Wellman is polluting the ground water and wanted her to lie for them. I don't know if Lanford still has a local paper (probably not) but Darlene could certainly reach out to other local markets, there are still plenty of local papers in Illinois. Any one of them might find it worthwhile to investigate her claims. 

Also, the fact that Robin praised her so highly while Wellman made specious claims about her being a conspiracy theorist is mighty fishy. Darlene's explanation sounded pretty valid to me.

It was nice to see Bev again even if her story is a sad one. And it sounds like we've finally gotten confirmation that Dan's father passed away. It would have been nice if they had mentioned that back when Crystal was still on the show, or when they introduced Little Ed, but there's zero expectation of continuity on this show. Dan also has a half sister out there somewhere (the baby girl Crystal had after Little Ed). 

I thought that he passed when you get Ed showed up last season. I thought there was a scene where Dan read about his father's death in the obituary section of the newspaper. 

[Bastet]

15 minutes ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

I thought that he passed when you get Ed showed up last season. I thought there was a scene where Dan read about his father's death in the obituary section of the newspaper. 

Season two, not last season, but yes, they killed off Ed in that episode with Little Ed, and Dan found out via obituary (they never even mentioned Crystal; it was an utterly horrible episode other than some good Becky and Darlene interaction).

[StaceyNotStacie]

12 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Season two, not last season, but yes, they killed off Ed in that episode with Little Ed, and Dan found out via obituary (they never even mentioned Crystal; it was an utterly horrible episode other than some good Becky and Darlene interaction).

My assumption is that Crystal and Ed eventually divorced (which is why she was working at the casino) and the family sided with Crystal after the divorce, which meant that Dan and Ed grew apart. 

[Bastet]

Continuing in the Past and Present thread ...

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

That whole PLOT is annoying. Whistleblowers are legally protected from retaliation; you don't get unemployment if you're fired for cause; and it's illegal to trash a former employee to a potential employer (all you can legally do is confirm that they worked there and their time of employment). So Darlene could have a massive lawsuit, but that wouldn't suit the "Connors always get done dirty" theme.

Also, Estelle Parsons (Bev) is almost 96 years old! Whoa. She and Lois Smith (another NY stage actor) is still working at 92, and won a Tony in 2020. 

Agree that the plot is annoying, but it is not “illegal” to trash a former employee, putting aside the question of whistleblower protection. First, it is not illegal in the sense of a crime. There could be a legal consequence, as it would be defamatory if not true, and the former employee could sue for that. It is not defamatory to tell the truth or to give a bad opinion just because you don’t like someone. In this story what happened was in a gray area unlikely to happen in the real world. People do refrain from answering these reference questions as you described, but that is a CYA sort of choice that most corporations make. They are not forbidden from giving negative answers. Wellman is obviously a small businessman who is full of his own self-importance, so it’s not surprising that he would act like a d—- to get back at Darlene. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

Now I have to rewatch to see Barry Livingston.

Yeah, that's him!  Ernie as an old guy.

Edited November 17, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[marceline]

2 hours ago, kwnyc said:

That whole PLOT is annoying. Whistleblowers are legally protected from retaliation; you don't get unemployment if you're fired for cause; and it's illegal to trash a former employee to a potential employer (all you can legally do is confirm that they worked there and their time of employment). So Darlene could have a massive lawsuit, but that wouldn't suit the "Connors always get done dirty" theme.

Except Darlene wasn't the whistleblower. Robyn was. Darlene has no such protections. 

Quote

Also, Estelle Parsons (Bev) is almost 96 years old! Whoa. She and Lois Smith (another NY stage actor) is still working at 92, and won a Tony in 2020. 

I saw Parsons in August Osage County a few years back. She was amazing. I liked seeing her again even if this storyline bothered me. Jackie has turned into such an ugly character.

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, marceline said:

Jackie has turned into such an ugly character.

It really bothered me that her first assumption is that Bev was faking. I know Bev isn't exactly World's Greatest Mom but her attitude toward her is so cruel.

[EtheltoTillie]

21 minutes ago, marceline said:

Except Darlene wasn't the whistleblower. Robyn was. Darlene has no such protections. 

I saw Parsons in August Osage County a few years back. She was amazing. I liked seeing her again even if this storyline bothered me. Jackie has turned into such an ugly character.

I saw Parsons in that play also.  She also used to live in the building next door to mine, and she was selling her apartment at a time I was looking to buy, and I looked at her apartment--didn't buy that one.  The broker did not hide that it was hers, and she had pictures around the place.  I've visited a few actors' apartments over time, and every one of them had a Hirschfeld caricature of themselves.   Parsons's husband died recently, and he was quite a bit younger than she was.  He was a noted civil rights lawyer.

Edited November 17, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[marceline]

16 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

It really bothered me that her first assumption is that Bev was faking. I know Bev isn't exactly World's Greatest Mom but her attitude toward her is so cruel.

This. The idea that Bev was faking dementia just so Jackie would come visit is just so paranoid. Why wouldn't Bev just ask Harris to tell Jackie that she needs to see her?

[UYI]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Agree that the plot is annoying, but it is not “illegal” to trash a former employee, putting aside the question of whistleblower protection. First, it is not illegal in the sense of a crime. There could be a legal consequence, as it would be defamatory if not true, and the former employee could sue for that. It is not defamatory to tell the truth or to give a bad opinion just because you don’t like someone. In this story what happened was in a gray area unlikely to happen in the real world. People do refrain from answering these reference questions as you described, but that is a CYA sort of choice that most corporations make. They are not forbidden from giving negative answers. Wellman is obviously a small businessman who is full of his own self-importance, so it’s not surprising that he would act like a d—- to get back at Darlene. 

In that case, I stand corrected on my original post! 

[Egg McMuffin]

Great to see Estelle Parsons (and Ernie Douglas).

I don’t like how Bev has morphed into this monster (and they were doing that in later years of the original show). They did that with Roseanne and Jackie’s father too; he was a very genial guy in his appearances during the early seasons of the show. And Bev had her annoying qualities early on but she wasn’t so outwardly nasty.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Agree that the plot is annoying, but it is not “illegal” to trash a former employee, putting aside the question of whistleblower protection. First, it is not illegal in the sense of a crime. There could be a legal consequence, as it would be defamatory if not true, and the former employee could sue for that. It is not defamatory to tell the truth or to give a bad opinion just because you don’t like someone. In this story what happened was in a gray area unlikely to happen in the real world. People do refrain from answering these reference questions as you described, but that is a CYA sort of choice that most corporations make. They are not forbidden from giving negative answers. Wellman is obviously a small businessman who is full of his own self-importance, so it’s not surprising that he would act like a d—- to get back at Darlene. 

Thank you, that was the gist of my post above, not that anyone read it.  There are no laws federal or in Illinois in particular against giving a bad reference for a former employee.  The only issue with trashing someone is that they may bring a defamation lawsuit against the company for it, but the burden of proof is upon the employee to show that any statements of fact about their performance were untrue.  If Darlene had excellent reviews from her supervisor in writing that may be allowed as evidence against being called "not a team player".  I know this because of research I did for my own wrongful termination lawsuit. 

I agree with you about Wellman, but even at Fortune 100 companies like mine, which was run like a small company there were d---s at the top that would do something most people (and their lawyers) would know was not advisable.  I was terminated for no reason (CT is an at-will state which means no reason is needed to terminate someone).   But I was also on workers' comp. at the time which made terminating me illegal.  The decision came from the highest level of the company, NOT my immediate supervisor (just like in Darlene's case).  I think the d--ks at the top hated it that I collected workers' comp. in the first place because I would get a settlement out of their pockets.  So they had something against me for doing that in the first place.  And I was an executive admin. so those d---s at the highest level knew me and probably wanted to get me back for pursuing the lawsuit.  It would not be unlike them to trash me in references based on what I know about them.  They didn't think about how advisable terminating me was nor would I put it past them to trash me regardless of potential consequences.  So this situation is very realistic in my opinion.

The only thing Darlene could do is become a whistleblower, that would protect her legally from Wellman ever trashing her again because there are laws protecting whistleblowers against that.  Maybe she'll realize that and become one in the future.  

[MrsEVH]

Can anyone tell me what did Bev said to Jackie at the end?  All I remember was she said something like " next time you _______" . My DVR cut it off. I 'm going to have to set it up to go 1 minute over the end time.

[Bastet]

1 minute ago, MrsEVH said:

Can anyone tell me what did Bev said to Jackie at the end?  All I remember was she said something like " next time you _______" . My DVR cut it off. I 'm going to have to set it up to go 1 minute over the end time.

It was to Harris, giving her a crappy present (that she'd introduced as if it was of great value), telling her to think about that next time she wants to call her an old bat.

[UYI]

45 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Thank you, that was the gist of my post above, not that anyone read it. 

I read it! I'm sorry, you responded to original post; I should have responded before. :)

[love2lovebadtv]

22 hours ago, Browncoat said:

She could, but then the next job would look at her current salary and base their offer on that low-ball amount.  She'd cheat herself in the short run, and never catch back up in the long run.  

Where would they look at her current salary? Wellman is a private company so her salary isn't public information like public employees.

20 hours ago, UYI said:

The thing that bothered me more than anything was that Bill Wellman so openly derided Darlene when contacted by potential employers; in real life, you absolutely cannot do that, because it could open up your company to a lawsuit, so most supervisors will only confirm that said former employee worked there, and the dates that they worked there. They can get around that by asking if that person is eligible for rehire or not, but that's the most they can do. 

What struck me was that the interviewer said Bill Wellman had called him. At least, that's what I thought I heard. If that's the case, then Wellman definitely has a vendetta against Darlene. And he's opening himself up to a lawsuit. 

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I get that, but I would have been interested to know how much they were offering because it had to be better than food delivery. By playing coy with how much she made at Wellman versus what the pen guy was offering it's hard to know whether or not it was the right decision. If health care and other benefits were included it might still be worth it.

I thought Darlene's food delivery gig was realistic. I loved her explanation that she's doing it while still looking for a management position. Food delivery is flexible. It would be pretty hard to look for a new management job while once she accepts a new management position. If she had been unemployed longer, I could see her accepting a low-paying position but I applaud her for giving it a shot. for Based on Darlene's behavior, she was really being lowballed. By now, she knows what local middle management jobs should pay.

[EtheltoTillie]

2 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Where would they look at her current salary?

I think they would just have the typical "salary history" that people have to provide in applications.  It's a longstanding grievance about how women get screwed by that system. 

[Yeah No]

17 hours ago, DanaK said:

I’m skeptical that Bev was that far into dementia and still able to take care of herself and not look disheveled or smell terrible because she forgot to change her clothes or shower, which I don’t think Harris mentioned. My dad had dementia and he started to forget things, like what he had just asked me 5 minutes before, but for the most part, he didn’t start to forget to change or take a shower until my brother got he and my mom into assisted living. I don’t think he forgot who we were but he definitely had trouble remembering friends. His health went rapidly downhill when my mom passed and he died 4 months after she did. So I have a hard time buying Bev had forgotten her daughter but was still able to live alone as it seems forgetting your close loved ones is likely one of the last memories to go. And yes, the scenes with Bev were hard to watch given my experience with my dad

Bev definitely looked like she had someone doing her laundry, cleaning and perhaps shopping.  For the last 10 years of his life my father had an old friend who was 20 years younger than him doing those things for him.  But I learned from his situation that people can be atypical in terms of which symptoms of dementia they have and they don't all present them at the same stage simultaneously either.  By the time he was 92 my father could tell you the exact time, the day of the week, the top news stories and his opinion on all of them, the weather report and the names of all his elected officials, but would routinely forget what I told him the day before and at times would struggle to remember the names of some of his closest friends (all of whom died years before him).  Plus he exhibited a lack of judgment and emotional maturity that he most definitely had when he was younger.  He became stubborn about going to the doctor (we had to trick him into it) or getting in the shower and even allowing his aide to wash certain articles of his clothing (which I told her to do when he wasn't looking).  I'm no expert on this but he seemed to confuse even the doctors because he was no "classic case" and I was in a tough spot because they refused to diagnose him with dementia so I couldn't make certain decisions for him.  

So I don't know about Bev, I might buy that she's some form of "atypical" case so I am suspending any disbelief for now.   But I also wonder whether there isn't some deviousness and deception going on with her, knowing her character.  I suspected my own father of "playing dumb" and deliberately deceiving us about certain things because with his declining emotional maturity he thought it was to his advantage to do so.  He was acting in some cases more like a rebellious teenager than the father I knew for 60 some-odd years.

[Bastet]

9 hours ago, marceline said:

The idea that Bev was faking dementia just so Jackie would come visit is just so paranoid.

Nana Mary had faked senility to fuck with Bev, so it's not unheard of within the family, and Bev has always held an honorary PhD in passive-aggressive behavior.  So on one hand it's pretty out there, but on the other with Jackie having ignored Bev for awhile, it's not as outlandish as it would be in many other families. 

They've had an increasingly ugly dynamic on both sides over the years, and Jackie had previously tried to break free.  This pulling her back, as the only surviving child, has potential, but we'll see what happens.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Bastet

[candall]

I read it.  Sounds like a long, rough road against opponents bigger and more powerful than yourself.  I'm so sorry.

###

Estelle Parsons is a marvel.  96??  Good for her; lines were rock solid.

I'd like to have seen that apartment.  I wish I'd lived in "the building next door."

####

I don't know what to think about Jackie.  Does she have to be so frenetic and exhausting?  We've seen her have an interesting life--jobs and men came and went, much like a lot of people.  But she always had the unconditional support of the Conners to anchor her--priceless.  

I don't really like that they seem to have retrofitted her past from "Mom had a mean mouth on her" to Jackie suffering the emotional scars from a lifetime of abuse.

[kwnyc]

56 minutes ago, candall said:

I don't know what to think about Jackie.  Does she have to be so frenetic and exhausting?  We've seen her have an interesting life--jobs and men came and went, much like a lot of people.  But she always had the unconditional support of the Conners to anchor her--priceless.  

The thing about Laurie Metcalf is that she makes the lines work (even if they are not well-written or out of character), but when she's given a good scene to play with another good actor, she kills. She really is one of our great American actors (I've been lucky enough to see her on stage, and feel like she deserved the Oscar for Lady Bird).

[EtheltoTillie]

That's the problem with Laurie Metcalf.  So much shameless mugging on this show.  I don't think she does it elsewhere, so it's the writing and directing?  Lady Bird is a good example.  I liked that a lot. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 11/17/2022 at 8:03 PM, EtheltoTillie said:

I think they would just have the typical "salary history" that people have to provide in applications.  It's a longstanding grievance about how women get screwed by that system. 

We do her screwed by that system and that's why it's now an illegal question (thankfully) in many states, including Illinois. 

That's why I was asking OP where they would be getting Darlene's salary since she's not a public employee. 

[One Tough Cookie]

How doe Darlene for her mortgagor delivery  groceries?  I don't think Ban has a high  job  and if I remember Becky bailed on her he, bt I could be wrong

[Egg McMuffin]

Laurie Metcalf is marvelous. Her performance in the first four or five seasons of the original series is something to behold. Jackie became cartoonish in the later episodes of the original series and that continues in the new series. Becky is cartoonish too. I know the actors are being directed to play it that way, but it’s a bit of a shame, because they are capable of better performances.

[izabella]

I missed the last episode.  So Darlene, who is building a new house, just quit her job?  Has she never learned that you should find a new job first and then quit?  Who is paying for all the construction?  Did they forget about the house?