S02.E10: Unhinged

[maraleia]

 

Daniel has a problem accepting Jon Stern's advice, while Tawney rethinks her options. Meanwhile, Ted, Jr. seeks a favor, and Amantha comes clean to Jon Stern.

 

[matilda76]

I was afraid Jared was going to get the crap beaten out of him. I didn't understand why he would sneak into Hanna's room.

 

So what do people here think? Did Daniel really, actually kill her? Or was he just completely done putting up a fight against Foulkes?

 

But Sheriff Carl sending stuff off for testing, Teddy moving to press charges (god, I hate Teddy)...when's Season 3 starting already?!?

[AuntiePam]

My first thought at the end was "son of a BITCH!"  And then I realized it was a perfect ending -- even if we weren't assured of a third season. If this had been the end, I'd be okay with it.  Everything's up in the air but that's life -- is anything ever truly finished? 

 

I do wish Tawney had explained to Teddy -- or that he would have figured it out -- that Daniel told her about the coffee incident because he wanted her to understand why Teddy was being such an ass.  Maybe she didn't understand it herself.  Or maybe he told her to push her away.  And she lets Teddy think the worst, about Daniel being with her in the motel.  I suppose he wouldn't have believed nothing happened. 

 

I also wish Daniel wouldn't have taken the plea deal.  Jon almost guarantees he'll be exonerated.  Then again, Daniel wants it to be over.

 

Maybe the judge won't accept the plea deal.  The meeting was transcribed.  The judge will hear Foulkes pressuring Daniel again, and Daniel's not much different now than when he was 18.

[Armchair Critic]

was he just completely done putting up a fight against Foulkes?

 

That's how I saw it. When Daniel was describing how he found her with her limbs spread out and how he straightened her out, it sounds like she was already dead.

 

That damn Teddy, now Daniel may go to jail anyway. But maybe the Sheriff will dig up info on Trey and Daniel will be cleared of the murder? And now it looks like George's body has washed up, more trouble ahead.

 

Maybe the judge won't accept the plea deal

 

That's what I am thinking. This will continue the plot, if Daniel moves away and loses contact with everyone it seems like it would be the end of the show.

 

ACK! That was hard to watch. The one light moment that made me chuckle is when the Sheriff was looking at the surveillance video and he saw Daniel riding the bike and said "what the hell?".

 

I hope Amantha can go on with her life and I think Daniel's mother is probably aware that Daniel was planning on just going away, period.

 

I do wish Tawney had explained to Teddy that Daniel told her about the coffee incident because he wanted her to understand why Teddy was being such an ass.

 

I know she is supposed to be innocent minded (at this point I will call her more simple minded because she ticked me off tonight), but is she really that naïve to believe Teddy would just let her walk away without some kind of retaliation to Daniel (who is supposed to be her friend)? Her just up and leaving seemed kind of selfish. I can understand though not wanting to be around Teddy especially since he started getting upset again when she was talking to him.

[Kris117]

I was afraid Jared was going to get the crap beaten out of him. I didn't understand why he would sneak into Hanna's room.

I was afraid for him, too. But that scene showed that Hanna's family (or at least her brother) is in a prison of their mother's making. I think Jared was spying on them, trying to understand Hanna and what she was to Daniel, and thereby get closer to understanding Daniel.

 

So what do people here think? Did Daniel really, actually kill her? Or was he just completely done putting up a fight against Foulkes?

I was not 100% convinced that Daniel was innocent of both crimes until tonight. I think he got his version of the truth out in front of Jon, the Sheriff, and the current DA, and publicly backed Foulkes into a corner and exposed how Foulkes railroaded an exhausted, grieving, and mushroomed up 18-year-old into a coerced confession. I think Daniel recalled and proved to himself what the true version of events was, and then was able to back track, "confess," and shut the door on it all. The current DA looked as if she wanted to get up and hug him.

 

But Sheriff Carl sending stuff off for testing, Teddy moving to press charges (god, I hate Teddy)...when's Season 3 starting already?!?

 

My first thought at the end was "son of a BITCH!"  And then I realized it was a perfect ending -- even if we weren't assured of a third season. If this had been the end, I'd be okay with it.  Everything's up in the air but that's life -- is anything ever truly finished?

For me, this is a worse cliffhanger than last season. It was awful to see Daniel beaten up like that, but at least I was sure that if there were a Season 2, Daniel would be alive for it.

 

I do wish Tawney had explained to Teddy -- or that he would have figured it out -- that Daniel told her about the coffee incident because he wanted her to understand why Teddy was being such an ass.  Maybe she didn't understand it herself.  Or maybe he told her to push her away.  And she lets Teddy think the worst, about Daniel being with her in the motel.  I suppose he wouldn't have believed nothing happened.

As sweet as Tawney is, she has no understanding of what makes Teddy tick, beyond what he likes to eat. That wasn't the first time she has discussed Daniel with Teddy and, in all innocence, cluelessly said the worst possible thing to Teddy. She couldn't have hurt him more had she tried. I think that Daniel told Tawney about his attack on Teddy so that she would better understand where Teddy is coming from, not in the expectation that Tawney would pass it on to Teddy.

I think that it also has dawned on Tawney that Teddy has no idea what makes her tick, and that Daniel's arrival only woke her up to her unhappiness in her own marriage. That final conversation between them was packed full of emotion and lost hopes.

 

It was so hard for me to watch Janet say goodbye to Daniel as he left for his debriefing. The sight of her face keeping it together for him, and then the glimmering of tears after he'd left just broke me.

I was afraid that Trey had set Daniel up for George's death, but I should have known that Trey wasn't smart enough to construct an airtight frame of Daniel when he's stone cold sober, let alone drunk and hyped up on pills. It was rather funny that Trey thought he had thrown so many clues pointing to Daniel in George's house, but had no clue about the security cameras which drew the Sheriff's attention to him.

The music in this episode was especially beautiful, and added a lot to the last half of the episode—Daniel's debriefing and the final montage especially.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Kris117

[Judois]

At the end of tonight's show,I was all "What the hell,show?! How could you do this to me?!" Makes me even happier it got renewed.

Hearing Daniel's actual version of things finally confirmed to me he is innocent. But I doubt that matters to the DA and Senator.

[Nihilum]

I've really enjoyed the progression of the sheriff this season, as a guy actually trying to do real police work now and get to the bottom of events.

 

He's certainly no dummy, and hilariously enough, Daniel's note which proves he was at George's trailer may ironically clear him in the eyes of the sheriff. The sheriff has to wonder, what kind of idiot would leave a signed note at the residence of someone he had murdered?

 

The finale started off quite slow, but that last half was very intense. The languorous pace this show takes can sometimes be infuriating, but I still find it enjoyable.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Nihilum

[alexvillage]

For someone who is ambivalent about this show, I think it was a very good episode, mostly because the acting (Daniel's, don't know the actor's name).

 

I do think he killed Hannah. I think he told the story as it happened and I think the prosecutor lady is intrigued and will push for an investigation of the senator. 

Does anyone know if what Daniel did to Teddy would actually put him in jail? It is true that he told a lot of people, but it is his word against Teddy's and this kind of thing, while disgusting, happens in school pranks. Maybe because he told people, then they have a case against him? I am trying to understand the reality of such action.

 

 

The sheriff has to wonder, what kind of idiot would leave a signed note at the residence of someone he had murdered?

This show is atypical but maybe a very smart person would do this to create some alibi. Daniel's finger prints are on George's wallet and phone.

On the other hand, the sheriff saw Trey's car and is already suspicious of him.

My guess is that the sheriff will become Daniel's ally of sorts

[Kris117]

Does anyone know if what Daniel did to Teddy would actually put him in jail? It is true that he told a lot of people, but it is his word against Teddy's and this kind of thing, while disgusting, happens in school pranks. Maybe because he told people, then they have a case against him? I am trying to understand the reality of such action.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe this would qualify as assault, especially since Daniel put Teddy into a chokehold and rendered him unconscious. In many parts of the country, like mine, he could also be charged with some degree of sexual assault, since Daniel partially undressed Teddy and handled his ass while placing the coffee grounds there. However, since this is Paulie, had this happened between any two random men in town, I think that the "boys will be boys" attitude toward the crime might prevail. Drawing sexual organs on someone's head while they're asleep is a prank. Stuffing coffee grounds between Teddy's ass cheeks is not. And given that Daniel freely admitted that he did it to make Teddy feel powerless, he might plead guilty to it.

That's serious enough, but given that Daniel's assault on Teddy echoes Daniel's supposed assault on Hanna (strangulation, sexual assault), I can't help but think that the town would be after Daniel's blood, with Foulkes leading the charge. In the scene where Teddy reported the crime to the sheriff, the sheriff told Teddy that given it was his word against Daniel's, it would be a tough case to make. He also asked a Teddy whether there had been any penetration, which said to me he was looking at the degree of assault involved. That was one of the scenes that underlined for me that the sheriff does take his job and the law seriously, and he's not just Foulkes' puppet. However, the sheriff might find it very hard to maintain his principles and independence in the face of a town outcry.

That's a very long-winded way of saying that this looks very bad for Daniel.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Kris117

[alexvillage]

Oh, I know it is serious and not a simple prank. I should had explained better: in many places, as you pointed out, some things I particularly find heinous, are shrugged as pranks. I was just wondering if this would be something that would really be pursued by a district attorney, or if tis is something they would rather deal away from the public's eyes. Even if some people know about it, isn't it a case of he said-he said, and something hard to prove?

We know that college rape and hazing happen and hardly ever someone gets punished. Even with rape kits. So, does it have to be "beyond a reasonable doubt" if this kind of case ever reached the courts? Prosecutors don't like to take on "losing" cases

[CynicalGirl]

^ I agree, don't think we'll need to worry about that plea deal because the prosecutor will end up withdrawing it in light of the assault on Teddy. And I also agree it's an assault under the law, even without the sexual component. Not to mention that he will probably be implicated in George's death too. Yep, Daniel's in a heap o' trouble. 

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

 

At the end of tonight's show,I was all "What the hell,show?! How could you do this to me?!" Makes me even happier it got renewed.

I was WTH'ing through the whole episode. I don't think I'm any closer to figuring out whether Daniel actually did it or not but did anybody else notice Foulkes (the older prosecutor that initially questioned Daniel, hope I got the name right) seemed to give Daniel a WINK(!) while he was "confessing"? (I ended up DVR'ing the episode so I can watch it slowly again tonight). 

 

Tawny has always seemed frightened of Teddy - like she was wincing as if he was going to hit her at any moment. Maybe she's finally standing up to him and leaving him and Daniel was the catalyst and now like most bullies, he's frightened to actually lose her.Ironic that Teddy came home to his mom for a little TLC. And does anybody understand the coffee grounds thing? is putting coffee grounds in somebody's butt supposed to have some ulterior meaning? (besides just being gross and humiliating) 

[alexvillage]

 

I agree, don't think we'll need to worry about that plea deal because the prosecutor will end up withdrawing it in light of the assault on Teddy.

I think you are right, although there are things the prosecutors would have to consider. And if they presented the papers to the judge, I don't think they can go back and include the rape (and not use the sexual assault as something he is doing again). Still, my question was a speculation about what would happen in real life, if this is something a DA would use to try to put someone in jail, if it would work (I don't think it would be very easy to prove beyond reasonable doubt. there are a number of things that could be said to cast doubt and mess up a trial).  I think this show tends to show reality in a extreme way, as opposed to other shows that show similar procedures in a very ridiculous way.

 

I should stop now because there are scenarios playing in my head. Too many

 

 

And does anybody understand the coffee grounds thing? is putting coffee grounds in somebody's butt supposed to have some ulterior meaning? (besides just being gross and humiliating)

Daniel said it is something he learned in prison, so it is probably just to humiliate and show some control over someone else

Edited August 22, 2014 by alexvillage

[Luckylyn]

Initially, I was worried that Trey would be able to frame Daniel for George's murder, but the surveillance tape complicates things.  Even if Trey insisted that Daniel murdered George in front of him, there's no way Daniel could have disposed of a body and the video shows that.  I suppose Trey could still lie and say Daniel murdered George and intimidated Trey into disposing the body.  But now the sheriff isn't as certain of Daniel's guilt in Hannah's death.  His sending Trey and George's DNA out makes it clear he's looking into the past with a fresher perspective.   At best, the sheriff will be weary of anything Trey has to say against Daniel if Trey's DNA pops in Hanna's investigation which it likely will and wonder if Trey killed George.  At worst, the sheriff will decide Daniel and Trey are partners in crime and killed George together before he couldn't implicate them.   Trey would have been better off leaving things alone and just letting George's suicide be found out.  Is there any chance George wrote a suicide note, or left something behind to make it clear it was suicide that Trey wouldn't have be able to discard?  Still even if the sheriff supports Daniel's innocence involving Hannah and George, Daniel is guilty of assaulting Teddy.

 

Teddy's an idiot if he thinks Twaney and Daniel had sex.  What woman in the middle of a miscarriage is going to have sex?   Wouldn't she be in physical discomfort?  Although Twaney and Daniel, simply having a conversation is enough to set Teddy off.  I think Daniel created a window of opportunity for Teddy to better communicate with Twaney and maybe work things out, but Teddy was too jealous to recognize it.   Daniel willing gave Twaney information that made him look terrible and Teddy look better, and Teddy still manages to ruin his chance because jealousy over Daniel is his focus instead of reaching Twaney.  In the end it's not about Twaney but competing with Daniel and I can understand Twaney wanting to walk away from that.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Luckylyn

[peeayebee]

Great finale.

 

I was loving Daniel's debriefing as he recounted being coerced into confessing the first time… but when he said he strangled Hanna, I gasped in disappointment. I know Daniel just wanted it all to be over, and he felt it was best for everyone he cared about if he was banished. Also, he felt responsible for Hanna's death because he gave her the mushrooms, and he left her as she laughed at him, left her to be raped and murdered.

 

However, what he said (the first version in this debriefing) was almost exactly what Trey had told him happened. Did he just appropriate Trey's version into his own memories? Or did this prompt his actual recollection of events? I don't know, and I think we're not supposed to know. I believe that what Trey told him was true, but I wonder if Daniel's recollection was affected by Trey.

 

Had we heard Christopher mentioned before? Did Trey mention him? 

 

I certainly hope that the judge will read the debriefing and reject it because it was coerced. 

 

 

 

Daniel's assault on Teddy seems like a sure ticket back to jail. I don't know how the show will get around that unless Teddy changes his mind. I don't think anyone would sell it as boys-being-boys. Daniel did it in anger. Teddy was rendered unconscious and sexually assaulted. Neither one of them is laughing about it.

 

Loved the scenes betw Daniel and Tawney in the motel. They have such tremendous chemistry.

 

I'm happy to see the sheriff doing honest investigating, which he's been doing all season. I'm glad there were security tapes, though I was expecting the guy to say the cameras weren't working. That was a nice surprise. 

 

With the discovery of George's body, it'll be clear that Daniel didn't kill him, at least not there in his house. I'm not sure how much time has passed, but certainly the body will indicate it's been in the water a long time. I doubt though that they'll be able to tell that George shot himself.

 

I enjoyed all of Amantha's scenes and really liked what she said to Jon and to Daniel. It makes sense that she would hesitate to stay in the relationship with Jon since it was built on this tragedy with Daniel. And I liked when she told Daniel that she wanted to be with him one last time while she was still who she was, and also that she wouldn't seek him out again. He would have to seek her out.

 

Ted Sr is still a saint.

 

Good to hear that the tire store is doing better and that Teddy's rim idea hasn't been a disaster.

[Luckylyn]

 

Had we heard Christopher mentioned before?

I was wondering about that too.  Who is Christopher and why haven't we heard about him before?

[MorbidPet]

Season 3 can't come soon enough but about the finale; I don't think Daniel did it, he's mixed up for whatever & every reason. I find Tawney a big yawn but I seem to be in minority at least on this forum but I still hope she won't be in S3. Not enough Amantha & Jon but I liked their little scene and I prefer angst before cuddling so. I hope Amantha stays by her word to Daniel. Yes Ted Sr is a saint. Finally George's body turns up & I can't wait to see how all that will play out.

[CynicalGirl]

The surveillance tapes won't link Daniel to the actual murder, because the physical condition of the body will show it's been in the water for some time. The sheriff knows George hasn't been seen (and no pings on the cell phone) for about a month. I know Daniel's fingerprints will be on the wallet, but I missed what happened to the gun. Are his fingerprints on that too? And does he have the cell phone?

[Primetimer]

Daniel, Tawney, and Amantha contemplate cutting ties, but Sheriff Carl discovers other connections.

Read the story

[alexvillage]

 

And does he have the cell phone?

He touched the phone and left it where it was

[peeayebee]

Daniel, Tawney, and Amantha contemplate cutting ties, but Sheriff Carl discovers other connections.

http://previously.tv/rectify/lost-and-found/"> Read the story

In this recap there seems to be some doubt as to who wrote the note stuck to George's wall. It couldn't have been Trey because when we saw Daniel wake up and look at the wall, there was no note there.

[panthergirl13]

"the note "from" Daniel, which he photographs with an outdated mobile not befitting an officer of the law in 2014"

 

I noticed that Teddy, too, has an old Motorola flip phone (when he left the message for Tawney saying basically 'just call and tell me you're ok, I won't answer' ... I thought, "Why can't she just text him?" and then I noticed the old-timey phone.) I guess you have to be on premium cable to have iPhones as WELL as 'real Coke'.

[Kris117]

Great finale.

 

I was loving Daniel's debriefing as he recounted being coerced into confessing the first time… but when he said he strangled Hanna, I gasped in disappointment. I know Daniel just wanted it all to be over, and he felt it was best for everyone he cared about if he was banished. Also, he felt responsible for Hanna's death because he gave her the mushrooms, and he left her as she laughed at him, left her to be raped and murdered.

Yes, I can see Daniel thinking that it was his fault that Hanna was raped and murdered, because he gave her the mushrooms, so confessing to the actual crime wasn't such a big step for him. That, plus ending the whole ordeal for his family.

Imagine how different things would have been if Teddy hadn't been so insecure about his place in the family and in the family business that he was threatened by Daniel's release from prison. Perhaps it resulted from losing his mother at an early age, but he sees attention paid to anyone else as a threat to him. Tragic.

I really liked the scene between Amantha and Daniel where she called him a coward and said she'd never reach out to him again. Not because I agreed with Amantha in any way, but because it showed that even though she's moved on a bit from being the Amantha whose entire life revolved around getting Daniel out of prison, she still feels entitled to govern his life and every action.

Another thing about her that struck me—I think this is the first time in her life she might be making friends in the town. She hasn't been shown with any friends in town, other than the ones she has made at work. I can picture going through high school being isolated from others, and isolating herself from others. The scene of her enjoying herself at work means she's made a step toward being someone other than "Daniel's sister." Only a step, though, when she needs to walk to Boston to get far enough away from that identity.

[kieyra]

Just wanted to say I think it's supposed to be clear Daniel didn't do it. But the plea deal required him to confess AND to debrief them on how he did it. He couldn't claim in the debrief he didn't do it because those weren't the terms. That was the whole point. The senator wanted him on record to protect his own reputation. Daniel wasn't getting out of the room until he told some version of "I did it". It was a charade and everyone knew it, but what Daniel did in there was give up, not confess. Which I guess is what he did originally, so kudos, show.

Meanwhile: I'm generally a Tawney fan but they had to make her go way too naive and tone-deaf to how men operate to be like "Sorry you were humiliated and emasculated by my new romantic interest, he told me all about it. Bummer." Even a more enlightened man (person) than Teddy would still take that as a re-victimization by his attacker.

[Ronin Jackson]

Daniel's confession scene was so incredibly tense.  It was so deflating when he finally "confessed" even though I don't believe it was an authentic confession (everything else he said seemed authentic).  It does seem to be setting up for him to really regret saying those words.  But at least the Sheriff is closing in on Trey Willis.

 

I'm glad this show has been renewed for season 3.  I have to say it's probably the best show on television right now, IMO of course.

 

The folks behind the show are obviously as big of Arvo Pärt fans as I am.  The music at the end was "Fratres for Violin, Strings and Percussion"... "Fratres for String Orchestra and Percussion" and  "Tabula Rasa" was also used in previous episodes this season... to open the previous episode and the music the chaplain played on the tape recorder.  "Fratres for Violin, Strings and Percussion" is one of my favorite pieces of music... the first time I heard it the hair on the back of my neck stood up and it near brought me to tears.  I've probably heard it a thousand times before I heard it in this episode, I can only imagine the impact if this was the first time I heard it.

[alexvillage]

I kind of want Daniel to be guilty. It would be more consistent with all the weirdness of the show.

If his confession was just for satisfy the senator and prosecutor, then Daniel is a heck of an actor. It did seem like he was remembering things and reliving them in a way.

Funny how one episode had the effect of making me actually like the show

[Jordan27]

Great season finale.  The confession scene was dripping with tension.  I didn't think Daniel would confess, but now I see with Teddy charging him and George's body turning up, it didn't matter.  

 

One of the best four shows on TV with Orphan Black, Banshee and Walking Dead. 

 

A lot of big networks should check out the writing on these shows and ditch the kindergarten writing we see all too often on them.

[AuntiePam]

A lot of big networks should check out the writing on these shows and ditch the kindergarten writing we see all too often on them.

 

From your mouth to God's ears.  I started watching Legends (because of Sean Bean) but dumped it about five minutes in, when Bean went to visit his estranged wife [check] and his young son [check] and she says to him "You can't keep doing this" [check].  Didn't I just see this on The Strain?  So tiresome.

[JodhaBai]

Great finale. 

 

Though one disappointment was we didn't get a scene between Daniel and Tawney as they leave the hotel.   They were both going their separate ways never to see each other again but I'm guessing Daniel won't be going anywhere.  I'd guess Tawney will be back too. 

[stormy weather]

I loved the finale and can't wait to see how it all unravels but I hope next season it won't take them too long to put all the pieces together because we already know everything (apart from who killed Hannah) and it would be extremely boring to sit through all the lab work and the exams that will clear the mystery surrounding George's death and Trey's and Daniel's involvement when we already know what happened.

When Daniel was looking at the picture I wondered if we've ever been shown Hannah's face. I don't think we were and there must be a reason for that. Maybe it's to sort of "dehumanize" her so that we see Daniel as less of a monster and it makes it easier for us to like him. At the end of the day Hannah was a little more than a child.

Lastly, Tawney, for the love of god. Speak, child! How old are you supposed to be? 15? What a wonderful choice of "the last words I speak to my husband before I head out that door forevah evah". Couldn't she at least add "look, we just talked and we didn't do anything" or, better still, say nothing at all? At one point I even thought she wanted Teddy to think she's had sex with Daniel. Actually at one point (during the final montage) I also thought her's and Teddy's cars were going to crash into each other thus solving all their problems.

[thegreekfreak]

What an amazing finale to an all around fantastic second season. I just saw the episode and literally registered to ramble, err, talk about it!

 

Every scene was excellent and well acted, from the the dream like opening in the motel to the conversation between Janet and Ted Jr, not to mention all the smaller moments in between. The debrief took center stage for me though. Wow! I was on the edge of my seat as Aden Young ran through the gamut of emotions. Yet even after Daniel "confessed" to killing Hannah, I'm (and it looks like others too) still not sure where the truth lies. When Daniel finally relented and stopped sparing with the senator, Daniel's reaction could be read as either one of a defeated innocent man or of one reconciling with the truth that he did commit murder. Thanks to the acting and deft writing, the lack of closure didn't seem ridiculous or unsatisfying to me at all.

 

   

 

I kind of want Daniel to be guilty. It would be more consistent with all the weirdness of the show.  If his confession was just for satisfy the senator and prosecutor, then Daniel is a heck of an actor. It did seem like he was remembering things and reliving them in a way.

 

I think it would be interesting if Daniel was guilty especially because redemption is a large theme running throughout the series. However I have little doubt Daniel is innocent and that he didn't put on a show. I don't even think a guy like Daniel is capable of putting on a show for anyone at all. He was certainly remembering events from "that night". To me, the only thing that sounded false and/or rehearsed is the actual confession to killing Hannah and then the admittance that there was no coercion involved (which we know is BS!). The first version of events Daniel launched into seemed to be the truth but the rest was a mixture of Senator Foulkes and Trey's planted ideas, false memories and a genuine misremembering of events. I'm pretty sure the plea deal is off the table but I agree with others that Daniel is looking at a fresh heap of trouble.

 

Tawney, Tawney, Tawney. I know she's a gaurded character, especially around Teddy who may explode at any moment, but I was hoping for a longer talk between her and Ted Jr. too. This is the first time I thought Tawney went past simply being naive as she tacitly admitted to spending the night with Daniel. I suppose it's in keeping with the character but I wanted her to clarify that things with Daniel were innocent in nature.

 

Just wanted to say I think it's supposed to be clear Daniel didn't do it. But the plea deal required him to confess AND to debrief them on how he did it. He couldn't claim in the debrief he didn't do it because those weren't the terms. That was the whole point. The senator wanted him on record to protect his own reputation. Daniel wasn't getting out of the room until he told some version of "I did it". It was a charade and everyone knew it, but what Daniel did in there was give up, not confess. Which I guess is what he did originally, so kudos, show.

Well said! Much better than my rambling mess !

 

 

And does anybody understand the coffee grounds thing? is putting coffee grounds in somebody's butt supposed to have some ulterior meaning? (besides just being gross and humiliating)

 

It was explained nicely above that Daniel was trying to make Ted feel powerless after the latter mocked and needled the former relentlessly about being raped in prison. Why the coffee grounds? Well, when you're anally raped you lose control of certain bodily functions...if you understand what I'm saying?

 

I'm excited to see how everything comes together in season 3. I wonder how (or if) the family will stay intact? Everyone was going in separate directions -- Amantha's embracing a Daniel-less life, Tawney and Ted are separated, Jon's off in Boston and the news of Teddy Jr.'s assault will come out soon.

 

Props to Sarah for the hilarious particles!

[peeayebee]

I too was a bit frustrated that Tawney didn't tell Teddy that she and Daniel didn't have sex, but I think in her mind what she and Daniel did was a violation of her marriage vows. She is connected to him emotionally and intellectually, more than with Teddy, and that is wrong. She's attracted to Daniel and probably feels guilty about lusting in her heart. 

[thegreekfreak]

I too was a bit frustrated that Tawney didn't tell Teddy that she and Daniel didn't have sex, but I think in her mind what she and Daniel did was a violation of her marriage vows. She is connected to him emotionally and intellectually, more than with Teddy, and that is wrong. She's attracted to Daniel and probably feels guilty about lusting in her heart. 

 

I totally agree. Much like Daniel carries guilt for the assault, and feels he should be punished through the plea deal terms, Tawney misplaces, or miscatergorises, the guilt over her attraction to Daniel. Tawney is so naive and innocent that I wonder if her mind ever contemplated anything physical with Daniel beyond dancing and hand holding. We've seen that in prior scenes such as when Teddy asked if Tawney had a "convict crush" after first meeting Daniel. Not to mention she was downright offended when Ted Jr. asked if she acquiesced to Daniel's request for a kiss last season. So while it should be obvious that nothing happened sexually - right after a miscarriage no less! -  Tawney knows that she's married to a very insecure man who assumes she would cheat. That's why I wish Tawney had dispelled the notion because it does kind of crossover into "simple minded". Plus it may have saved the whole family from a whole lot of grief!

Edited August 25, 2014 by thegreekfreak

[Syren]

Real life keeps getting in the way of my entertainment consumption. I wish it would quit doing that. I finally got to watch the finale but I think I need to watch it again. I'm sure I missed things.

 

I was afraid for him, too. But that scene showed that Hanna's family (or at least her brother) is in a prison of their mother's making. I think Jared was spying on them, trying to understand Hanna and what she was to Daniel, and thereby get closer to understanding Daniel.

I was not 100% convinced that Daniel was innocent of both crimes until tonight. I think he got his version of the truth out in front of Jon, the Sheriff, and the current DA, and publicly backed Foulkes into a corner and exposed how Foulkes railroaded an exhausted, grieving, and mushroomed up 18-year-old into a coerced confession. I think Daniel recalled and proved to himself what the true version of events was, and then was able to back track, "confess," and shut the door on it all. The current DA looked as if she wanted to get up and hug him.

It was so hard for me to watch Janet say goodbye to Daniel as he left for his debriefing. The sight of her face keeping it together for him, and then the glimmering of tears after he'd left just broke me.

 

Well said, all of it, Kris117.

I was worried about Jared in that scene---again with the tension and dread, show! You're right about Hanna's family being in their own prison. Her brother is unable to move forward because his mother seems unwilling to do so. What a horrible life that kid must've had. How he and Amantha ever got through life in Paulie after Hanna's murder is a wonder.

And now both of them seem to live lives defined by their siblings, though Amantha may find a different way forward now.

 

I agree about the confession, both the one from that night and the one in the debrief. I think you are spot on about what we saw in the debriefing.

I'm not sure why I never thought about it before, but this new DA really thought Daniel did it, thought it was a good case. That was a big "Duh!" moment for me. Not sure why I thought she would think anything else since she wasn't around for that case and only has the files and what people like Foulkes are telling her to rely on. I guess I thought the actual case looked pretty weak on paper with the multiple semen samples---none matching Daniel, a 'shroomed up 18-yr-old's confession---surely she knows how often false and/or coerced confessions happen, it all seems pretty weak even if you're not privy to the insight into Daniel that we viewers have, so I thought she was just going along with it for the sake of her career. There was a moment in the finale where it seemed to dawn on her that Daniel was coerced into that confession. It seemed to hit her that he was telling the truth about Foulkes and the old sheriff, that she realized maybe this guy was actually innocent. But then she seemed to believe he did kill Hanna when he gave up and resigned himself to saying what he had to say to get the plea deal.

I will have to watch her closer when I re-watch. I'm not sure where she wound up in the Did He or Didn't He game.

 

When Daniel finally gave up and "admitted" killing Hanna, I put my head in my hands and sighed sadly. I knew he'd likely do it, but I still hated that Foulkes and others had forced him into another false confession. His resignation, seeing how tired he was and how he just wanted to put it all behind him no matter what that cost him was just heartbreaking. Another great performance by AY. I was literally on the edge of my couch, holding my breath, then I just felt defeated and broken.

 

Janet's Herculean effort to keep it together for Daniel, the tightness of her voice when she said, "See you in a bit," just got me right in the heart.

 

I've really enjoyed the progression of the sheriff this season, as a guy actually trying to do real police work now and get to the bottom of events.

 

He's certainly no dummy, and hilariously enough, Daniel's note which proves he was at George's trailer may ironically clear him in the eyes of the sheriff. The sheriff has to wonder, what kind of idiot would leave a signed note at the residence of someone he had murdered?

I liked seeing the sheriff progress this season, too. He seems to genuinely want to get to the truth and I'm glad to see it. He's already suspicious of Trey so I hope that bodes well for Daniel not getting framed for George's death. As others have noted, the body's been in the water a while and that'll be obvious, and he knows George has been missing for weeks before Trey and Daniel's trip.

 

Had we heard Christopher mentioned before? Did Trey mention him? 

 

My ears perked up at the mention of Christopher because I'm pretty sure that's the first we've heard of him. Does anyone remember him being mentioned before?
 

Lastly, Tawney, for the love of god. Speak, child! How old are you supposed to be? 15? What a wonderful choice of "the last words I speak to my husband before I head out that door forevah evah". Couldn't she at least add "look, we just talked and we didn't do anything" or, better still, say nothing at all? At one point I even thought she wanted Teddy to think she's had sex with Daniel. Actually at one point (during the final montage) I also thought her's and Teddy's cars were going to crash into each other thus solving all their problems.

 

There were a few moments during the finale that I rolled my eyes because I thought they were beneath the writing on this show.

When Janet and Ted Sr. were talking and he says he needs to tell her something and she says she already knows and then they're talking about two different things---very sitcom-like.

When Janet walks in on Ted and Daniel right as Ted asks what they're going to tell his mother and she says, "Tell me what?" Even though this is a likely scenario in a house that size, I knew as soon as Ted mentioned her, Janet would come in and utter those exact words. I did like that it went in a different direction from there though, with Daniel not telling her about what he did to Teddy.

And the last one was when Tawney didn't clarify that nothing happened with her and Daniel at the motel. There are good reasons listed above about why she might have done that, but I would've preferred her telling him and him just not believing her. I would've found that truer to both characters. As it played out, she just seemed awfully stupid to me.

The acting saved all these weak writing moments but they stuck out to me because this show's writing is seldom that hackneyed.

 

I had a brief moment of, "OMG, they're not going to crash into each other, are they?" too! My horror wasn't that they'd crash and possibly die, but that the show would do something so silly. The way that scene was edited made it seem they were headed for each other.

 

I'm really glad we have a third season. This show just doesn't seem to be on many people's radar, certainly no one I know watches it, so I'm happy to have all of you to talk about it with. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts this season. Even when I don't comment, I'm reading and seeing things from a different perspective and it adds another dimension to my enjoyment of the show. Thanks, y'all. :-)

Edited August 27, 2014 by Syren

[pdub]

Yep, Syren, so good to have a place to discuss this fascinating show!

 

I watched the last 2 episodes back to back, and can I just say here that I want to strangle Senator Skeevy? Grrr!

 

The last episode plodded along, as most of these episodes do, until you realize that you've been holding your breath for almost an hour. But this last ep pulled out everything right at the end. I went into this ep knowing that a 3rd season had been approved, and so I couldn't imagine what more another season could bring if/when Daniel got a plea deal.

 

I'm glad Amantha is so sure of the outcome of a trial; if my brother had been on death row for 20 years, I don't know that I'd want to take even .000032% chance of a conviction from another trial. I'm hoping the judge will not accept the plea deal, since it seems to have been "poisoned" by Sen. Shithead. The best I can say for HIM is that he's at least self-aware of his own motives, smarmy as they are. The current DA seemed to have been taken aback by the treatment of Daniel by the Senator at the debriefing - she may recommend to the judge that they set aside this plea arrangement pending further investigation.

 

Speaking of further investigation, I kept wondering how long it was going to take George's body to wash up somewhere. The discovery of the body along with the sheriff's new suspicions could well carry into a lot of next  season. I think the disappearance/discovery of George along with the the "mystery" (as far as the videotape shows) of what happened at George's house will cast much doubt on Daniel's "confession."

 

And whoa - I was scared for Jaren when Hanna brother came home and caught him. His telling Jared to take whatever he wanted was very telling to me. I have an acquaintance whose teen aged daughter was found murdered ( the murder is still unsolved after 15 years), and since then, her whole identity has been "mom of the murdered girl." There were actually two girls killed in this tragedy, and it's interesting how the two moms have had very different reactions and lives since then. It's not a judgment, because I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child, especially in an unsolved crime, but I immediately saw my friend in Hanna's mom; it's like they just quit moving, even with other kids to care for. 

 

I watched season one and two in just the last 5 days, and I'm so pleased to see the evolution of the sheriff! At the beginning, I felt he was just another good ol' Paulie boy, hanging with the Sen/former DA and the previous sheriff. But this guy is craftier than he lets on, and I think he's truly interested in the truth, and doesn't necessarily believe justice was done with the conviction of Daniel. Then, I had two reactions about him watching the tape from George's house. He obviously sees that Daniel and Trey arrive together in Trey's truck, and rewinds to see that they leave separately. At that point, George's body hadn't been found yet, so I'm anxious that the sheriff thinks that Daniel stayed behind and killed/disposed of George after Trey left. Now I'm not sure what he thinks, but I hope he asks Trey some questions and then catches him in a lie.

 

I have a whole 'nother analysis of Tawny, but this post is long enough already. LOL

[kieyra]

I do hope they won't dabble with law enforcement thinking Daniel killed George. I'm hoping forensics will show that it just doesn't line up with him being like a minute off death row.

If nothing else (sorry, true crime nerd) the rate of decomposition should make it clear that he died well before they visited his trailer.

(The whodunit bugs me, but I can't deny they are sustaining tension with it like crazy.)

[leighdear]

So I inhaled the entire series this past weekend, and was absolutely blown away. 

 

Giving Aden Young, the love-child of Jason Priestly and Josh Holloway, the speaking voice of Jeff Bridges was an awesome decision.  Love the guy.  

 

Lots of questions about who, what when and how, but the biggest I have right now is this one:

 

Who the hell IS Tawney?  Where did she come from, who is her family, WHERE is her family?  How did she & Teddy even get together?  Did I miss something referencing that?  Because I cannot recall a single detail about her apart from her relation to Teddy & the fam damily.    I would have thought that a shred of information would be revealed, but unless I had a LOT more wine than I thought, I can't recall anything.  

 

I hope Season 3 gets here fast!

[editorgrrl]

Who the hell IS Tawney?  Where did she come from, who is her family, WHERE is her family?  How did she & Teddy even get together?  Did I miss something referencing that?  Because I cannot recall a single detail about her apart from her relation to Teddy & the fam damily.    I would have thought that a shred of information would be revealed, but unless I had a LOT more wine than I thought, I can't recall anything. 

 

The Sundance character page says only that

The wife of Ted Jr., Tawney is young and naïve to the ways of the world, relying on her faith to carry her through. A devout Christian, she is very loving and overlooks many of her husband’s flaws. However, her unlikely spiritual connection with Daniel makes Ted Jr. furious.

 

From "6 Questions with “Rectify” Star Clayne Crawford (Ted Talbot Jr.)":

Q: Teddy is very devoted to Tawney. What has the writer told you about their back story and how they met?

 

A: They haven’t, so Adelaide and I have kind of built up that possibly she was in high school or maybe I had graduated high school but we went to the same school. Tawney grew up in a foster family, so they kind of came from the same place of needing someone to love and needing someone to love them. 

 

From an AP story, "God's Pained Servant on SundanceTV Drama 'Rectify'":

In "Rectify," writer-creator Ray McKinnon has crafted a universe of small but fully defined characters including Tawney, through whom he explores both the blessings and pitfalls of spiritual devotion.

 

"I had read a lot of scripts with Christian characters, but Tawney felt multifaceted, not stereotypical," says [Adelaide] Clemens. "As a former foster child, she feels the religious community is something to be celebrated and embraced. Christianity is how she makes sense of the world."

[leighdear]

Thanks editorgrrl....

 

She's not exactly a "fully defined" character thus far, but since they haven't concretely established her backstory, they can do that in the future with whatever serves the larger story.  A child of the foster care system is a good starting point. 

[JaneDigby]

I binge-watched Season 1 and up to episode 10 of Season 2 this weekend. I'm hooked. I have no excuse for hoping that somehow a slightly deranged former death row inhabitant can find happiness with a nice Christian girl named after a type of port wine but I do. 

 

Am I the only one who knows that people pay hundreds of dollars for a coffee enema? Teddy, you got a freebee!

[Anela]

Have they not aired all of the episodes in reruns? I thought I'd just watched the final episode, after recording them when it suddenly disappeared from on-demand. The last thing I saw was Tawney and Daniel in the motel.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I'm a million years late to the party but thanks to Netflix I finally got there. I love this show. I would be shocked if Daniel wasn't innocent. His character has some big question marks, but not Kerwin's. Kerwin knew him. He knew him, he knew him, he knew him. If Kerwin says Daniel is innocent, Daniel is innocent.

If you need me I'll be curled up in a ball crying.

[EDTV]

Amazing show that nobody seems to watch...lol. Glad I found this forum.

 

The series really picked up late in season 2, I wasn't all that interested in season 1. Why did they decide to retry Daniel if he was let go?

[Pogojoco]

Amazing show that nobody seems to watch...lol. Glad I found this forum.

 

The series really picked up late in season 2, I wasn't all that interested in season 1. Why did they decide to retry Daniel if he was let go?

He wasn't exactly "let go". Daniel's verdict of guilty was vacated because the DNA didn't match. That basically means the first trial never happened (under the law.) 

 

Because the trial "never happened", the case is still open and the state can have another shot at him. 

Edited March 15, 2015 by Pogojoco

[SnarkyMcSnarkerson]

Does anyone know what triggers those multi-million dollar settlements for people incarcerated that shouldn't have been? Would Daniel qualify? Or be excluded because his sentence was only "vacated" and he wasn't exactly found innocent? This show is fascinating!

[Pogojoco]

Usually, a person wrongfully convicted can sue in situations where  the police/prosecution have been negligent and/or some other wrongdoing- something like withholding evidence, ignoring other suspects, ignoring new evidence, biased editing of evidence, false confessions due to police pressure, perjury, racial discrimination etc etc.

 

So, if Daniel is found not guilty in his new trial and there is evidence that the police/prosecution went after him maliciously, ignored or withheld evidence that points towards another suspect etc, he could sue them. 

 

I miss this show. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by Pogojoco

[Neeners]

I watched both seasons this past week, and wow.  The acting is amazing.  I thought the actor playing Daniel looked like he could be related to Nathan Fillion and the actress playing Tawney looks a bit like Michelle Williams.  

 

I do think he is innocent, but just barely.

[shirazplease]

I binged both seasons this weekend.  It nearly killed me.  This show grabbed me like nothing has, since Six Feet Under's finale (I still think True Detective season 1 is the best thing I've ever seen on TV but that's a whole other animal).  I don't think there was a single epi that didn't bring me to tears.  Daniel and Tawney's scenes shredded me.  It made my heart hurt and kept me on edge, which is so strange because the pacing was so slow up until the very last epi.  I'm really, really impressed.  I guess it grabbed me at the beginning because my husband was in prison (nonviolent offenses) for awhile, and tho he wasn't isolated on death row like Daniel, I recognized much of the wonder and fear and overwhelming stimulation that Daniel felt at the ordinary everyday stuff  when he came home.  My husband's first trip to walmart was a nail biter.  He wouldn't let go of my hand and was completely distracted to the point that I had to point where I wanted him to walk.    I loved Daniel from the first scene.

[editorgrrl]

In the motel, Daniel tells Tawney he promised Teddy he would stay away from her. I thought he agreed to the plea deal because he wanted to be banished—to be kept away from his family, whom he always ends up hurting.

Now that Teddy has come forward, the plea deal is off the table. The authorities can't release an accused sex offender—much less foist him on another jurisdiction.

The one light moment that made me chuckle is when the Sheriff was looking at the surveillance video and he saw Daniel riding the bike and said "what the hell?"

I also chuckled at this:

Amantha: You don't want to be exonerated, do you? I didn't just want to get you out, Daniel. I wanted to clear your name—our name. And you can say that people are gonna think what they're gonna think, but there is a difference. There is a difference.

Daniel: Then change your name, Amantha.

Edited July 5, 2015 by editorgrrl

[Lone Wolf]

Okay.  Just finished quasi binge watching on Netflix.  I realize that there's a whole 'nother season out there, but it remains to be seen whether I'll pony up to purchase it from Amazon or just wait till it hits 'flix, or 'dance.  So, nothwithstanding the fact that I'm probably posting to myself, here goes....

 

 

I was afraid Jared was going to get the crap beaten out of him. I didn't understand why he would sneak into Hanna's room.

 

 

I couldn't understand why Hanna's room was unchanged after 19 years.  I realize we're in redneck cracker Jawja (and I say that having been raised in a very similar area in North Carolina), but I'm having a hard time with that concept.

 

That's what I am thinking. This will continue the plot, if Daniel moves away and loses contact with everyone it seems like it would be the end of the show.

 

I hope Amantha can go on with her life and I think Daniel's mother is probably aware that Daniel was planning on just going away, period.

 

 

 

 

It was so hard for me to watch Janet say goodbye to Daniel as he left for his debriefing. The sight of her face keeping it together for him, and then the glimmering of tears after he'd left just broke me.
 

And does anybody understand the coffee grounds thing? is putting coffee grounds in somebody's butt supposed to have some ulterior meaning? (besides just being gross and humiliating) 

As I remember, Teddy and Daniel were having some discussion about coffee before things turned violent.  I think the helplessness/humiliation aspect was Teddy being overpowered by the choke-out that Daniel learned (or more likely, experienced first hand) in prison and the coffee grounds were just an opportunity to maximize the h/h.

 

 

Janet's Herculean effort to keep it together for Daniel, the tightness of her voice when she said, "See you in a bit," just got me right in the heart.

 

 

 

Somebody help me out with this (he cried into an empty vortex of darkness, being about a year and a half late to the party): Daniel is banished from the state of GA other than one county - Echols county (which unlike Paulie is a real place), which is about 4 hours from Atlanta.  In the show universe, Atlanta doesn't seem to be that far from Paulie (Amantha and Jon seem to be commuting pretty easily), so what's the fuckin' big deal?  Daniel's family can't get in a vehicle and drive 4 hours down the damn I-75 to visit him? Granted, I live in Southern California where (crazy) people commute 4 hours round trip every day, but c'mon...what's with all the angst about this "banishment"?

Edited December 20, 2015 by Lone Wolf