S01.E09: Nobody’s Listening!

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Under intense scrutiny while imprisoned, Cassian makes Allie’s plan an impossible escape.

Dropping Wednesday, November 2, 2022.

[wanderingstar]

This episode was absolutely brutal. 

I was so worried for Ulaf the whole episode, but I still was not ready for his ending. That was a gut punch. I'm not surprised that plus learning no one's getting out made Kino want to help with the escape plan.

Meero's scenes with Bix were also agonizing to watch. I wanted to punch that Dr. Gorst when he waved hello at Bix. Bitch, this isn't a picnic!

So Vel is Mon Mothma's cousin. Loved her subtly shading Perrin at the dinner table with "Yes, all the good ones are taken." 

Syril has no chill. Really - you're stalking an ISB supervisor? You are so in over your head!

This is a small thing, but my heart hurts every time we hear the PA in the prison blare "On program" and everyone puts hands on heads. So dehumanizing.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[absnow54]

Meero has to be one of the best gray characters that Star Wars has done. To watch her lead Bix's interrogation and then immediately sympathize with her when Syril went full creep on her. She's really a fascinating character. I'm curious to see where this season leads her.

I never got into the Aldhani arc, or its pacing, but the prison arc has got me. There are so many moving parts, and they're doing an incredible job building the suspense. I'm constantly on the edge of my seat.

[Jeddah]

I know I say it every week, but this was such a good episode!

So Vel really is the rich girl trying to get away from her family, except for her cousin Mon apparently!

It was hard to watch Bix go through that. I’m glad they didn’t do that to Maarva, although it seems like they plan to at some point.

As for the prison, it is fascinating. Cassian really is observing and learning all the time, and he’s also gaining a following for his own prison revolt. He was so defeated last week, so it was great to see the change this week. It is still devastating to see the conditions.

[angora]

Even though it's horrible that Cassian has been in that place for the last month, I'm glad that he's recovered some of his resiliency and drive. He's feeling more like the young thief who steals from the Empire to survive, but we're also seeing the skill and leadership qualities that will serve him so well in the Rebellion. Even though he's still relatively "new", he's drawing in allies, and I like seeing how he takes the lead at his work table, trying to offer Ulaf extra support and then giving another inmate credit when Kino asks whose idea it was to swap places. I also love seeing him work on Kino throughout the episode--Narkina 5 tries to divide the inmates, and that includes giving some authority over others, but Cassian wants to involve anyone who could be useful.

The show is doing such an incredible job with the prison. Last week really emphasized how horrific it is, and we continued that this week with the rumors about Level 2 and poor Ulaf. And honestly, with the poor medic too--I felt for him when he said, "I can't help him. I can't help anyone." But we're also getting a great look at how the whole thing is a Panopticon, using the loudspeaker and the floor to create the impression of constant surveillance when really, there aren't as many guards as they want people to think. The inmates are observing the holes in the system and Cassian is realizing that the Empire doesn't feel the NEED to listen in on them, because it's so assured that its system is flawless and self-sustaining.

God, Bix's interrogation was terrible. I like that we never actually hear the recording. Dr. Gorst's explanation of it is awful enough, and combined with Bix's reaction, it tells us everything we need to know. Bix's scene before that with Dedra was really good, too. It's fascinating how much Dedra morphs depending on who she's interacting with. She's chilling and scary af when she's threatening Bix, she's hard and flinty when Syril is spiraling out in front of her, and she's sharp and intuitive working the case back at ISB. And I find it interesting that she's never all "evil Empire, let's do Mr. Burns hands as we gleefully kill Rebels!", but at the same time, she seems completely indifferent to killing. Another officer wants to hang Paak? Very well. Conundrum over the captured Rebel pilot? She solves that like an effing brain teaser, suggesting they rig a mechanical fault that will result in a dead pilot without letting the Rebels know they're onto them. Cold as ice.

Loved seeing Vel with Mon Mothma. Everything we've seen of Vel post-Aldhani just makes her more intriguing to me.  What a great moment of her taking Cinta's words from the last episode and repeating them here to Mon.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Another excellent episode.

• Poor Bix. 
• I thought Ulaf was going to get his hand smashed or something.
• Somehow Syril is going to step in it.  They've spent waay too much time on him for his role to be trivial. I see murder/suicide in his future.
• If Perrin is "playing" the bored politician's spouse, he's doing a good job.  Otherwise he's just a pretentious dickhead. Maybe he'll start to suspect things and Vel will arrange an "accident".

[Athena5217]

I wonder if Syril will end up in the prison for stalking Debra. He is such an idiot, it’s amazing he hasn’t been killed yet for pissing off the wrong person.

Debra is an interesting villain. One moment, I hate her for torturing Bix, the next moment I sympathize with her for having to deal with creepy stalker Syril.

Nice to see Andy Serkis acting with his real face instead of behind special effects.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Athena5217

[tennisgurl]

This show is hard to watch in the best way possible, it feels so impossibly intense even when its just two people standing in an apartment having a conversation. I know that I say this about every week, but this show really is such a unique addition to Star Wars lore. In a lot of ways it feels extremely different from most of Star Wars, but it also very much fits into its universe, it shows that this franchise still has the ability to find new ways to reinvent itself and find fresh takes. 

They did a great job at showing how awful the prison Cassian is in is in the last episode, but this week shows just how truly evil of a place it is. They dangle the idea that they could get out one day in front of the prisoners only to pull it away, moving them around or just murdering them, like they apparently did to a whole floor, and this is on top of the slave labor, regular electrical torture, and dehumanizing conditions that the prisoners deal with. At least Cassian has found some of his old fire again, which is certainly an improvement on how he was doing when he got to prison where he was one part empty shell and one part scared animal. He's making connections, putting things together, observing weak points, and while the prison tries to keep prisoners apart, he's bringing people together and creating more solidarity, building up to not only a possible take over of the prison but a bunch of new rebel recruits. He even managed to reach Kino after poor Ulaf died. I felt really bad for the medic, he obviously does want to help people but he knows he's in a place where he cant do that. Its also nice to see Andy Serkis getting to show his acting chops without CGI.

Speaking of awful, poor Bix and her poor store keeper friend. That was awful to watch, I like they we don't get to hear what she heard and that they cut away right before the interrogation started, it allows us to use our imagination, which is way worse. Meero is such an interesting character, she isn't a cackling monster, she doesn't seem to get any joy out of what she does for the Empire, but there is no hesitation either, she's coldly efficient in her service to the Empire. She seems to see what she does as a necessary job which she does because it needs doing, not out of cruelty, but also with no compassion.

Syril is going to end up being a massive wrench in someone's operations, either the Empire's or the Rebellions. The dude seriously needs to take every chill pill, his obsession is going to get him killed, ruffling so many scary feathers. Its ironic that his obsession with order is causing him to be seen as a disorderly annoyance, and we know what the Empire does to those...

So it turns out that Vel really is secretly a rich girl, and she's also Mon's cousin! Loved all of their scenes together, especially her quoting Cinta and how the fight against the Empire has to always come first. I wonder if one of them recruited the other one into the Rebellion?  

[Fool to cry]

Wow Syril, when you manage to creep out a sadistic space fascist that's as low as you can go!

Love the look Mothma has when her husband asks if Cousin Vel found a potential husband!

Andy Serkis' real face is the best special effect of all.

[thuganomics85]

Honestly didn't see Vel being Mon Mothma's cousin coming!  That was a fun twist and I liked seeing their interactions (especially how both clearly think Mon's husband is the worst.)  Hopefully we will see more of this once the Rebellion really gets going!

Had a feeling Ulaf wasn't going to be long for this world.  This prison really is the worst, which is saying something since prisons are never going to be known for their hospitality or living conditions, to put it mildly.  Was great seeing Cassian take on a more active approach to things now and learning along with him about some of the true horrors that are happening here.  And at least it looks like Kino is now onboard as maybe not a flat-out rebel, but someone who is through with being this prison's mouthpiece.  Andy Serkis is bringing it!

Well, Dedra just got scary as hell here!  Poor Bix: even if we didn't actually hear what Bix was hearing, her/Adria Arjona's reaction/facial acting was more than enough to relay how horrific it was.  The Empire is so fucked up!  That said, even Imperial sociopaths shouldn't have to deal with stalkers.  Simmer down there, Karn!

While not as horrific as most of what was going on here, it was still heartbreaking watching Mothma get ignored and even belittled on the Senate floor.  While the Empire itself will always be the worst, so many others have blood on their hands by ignoring what was right in front of them.

This show is just on fire right now.

[dwmarch]

Syril was being a creep there but rather than a romantic or sexual attraction I have a feeling he's looking for the approval his mother won't give him. Granted, that could get Freudian real quick depending on how Dedra reacts to him.

I would love it if Mon Mothma's husband was the one who got hauled away by the ISB not for any rebellious activity but for swagger-jacking Qui-Gon Jin. 

Again great music and great use of silence.

[absnow54]

41 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Honestly didn't see Vel being Mon Mothma's cousin coming!

@dwmarch predicted Vel would be another daughter of Mon Mothma last week, so she wasn't too far off!

[Cthulhudrew]

I definitely did not have Dedra/Karn romance on my BINGO card.

This is the first episode that sort of lost me a bit. It felt like things moved a little too quickly between last week and this, at least in regards to the Narkina crew. I'm not sure if it was the fast-paced dialogue, poor plotting, or my bad acoustics (for some reason my soundbar was not coming in clearly), but I couldn't quite follow all of the intrigue on the prison planet. 

[Ms.Moon]

Mon’s busy with her senate job and in the middle of a brewing rebellion so I get why her daughter has such distance from her plus I think the daughter believes that her mother is having an affair with an ex-boyfriend.  I feel sorry about that relationship but there’s so much going on in Mon’s life something had to give and her family life was it.  

18 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I definitely did not have Dedra/Karn romance on my BINGO card.

This is the first episode that sort of lost me a bit. It felt like things moved a little too quickly between last week and this, at least in regards to the Narkina crew. I'm not sure if it was the fast-paced dialogue, poor plotting, or my bad acoustics (for some reason my soundbar was not coming in clearly), but I couldn't quite follow all of the intrigue on the prison planet. 

Basically there’s no out for the prisoners.  They were supposed to release a prisoner and he got sent back so they killed an entire floor of people when the prisoners found out.  Cassian’s supervisor realized he ain’t getting out of that prison and is on board for the prison break.

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, angora said:

Even though it's horrible that Cassian has been in that place for the last month, I'm glad that he's recovered some of his resiliency and drive. He's feeling more like the young thief who steals from the Empire to survive, but we're also seeing the skill and leadership qualities that will serve him so well in the Rebellion. Even though he's still relatively "new", he's drawing in allies, and I like seeing how he takes the lead at his work table, trying to offer Ulaf extra support and then giving another inmate credit when Kino asks whose idea it was to swap places. I also love seeing him work on Kino throughout the episode--Narkina 5 tries to divide the inmates, and that includes giving some authority over others, but Cassian wants to involve anyone who could be useful.

This is first episode where I felt like we were seeing the character from Rouge One. I had thought Cassian's prison break would be a one man Lucas Jackson in Cool Hand Luke situation, but now I think he's more like Big X in Great Escape. Cassian is planning something big, and I can't wait to see what it is. 

11 hours ago, angora said:

But we're also getting a great look at how the whole thing is a Panopticon, using the loudspeaker and the floor to create the impression of constant surveillance when really, there aren't as many guards as they want people to think. The inmates are observing the holes in the system and Cassian is realizing that the Empire doesn't feel the NEED to listen in on them, because it's so assured that its system is flawless and self-sustaining.

My guess is that the Empire understands there's going to be talk and plans of escape, but doubts that any could actually succeed. They can shock the inmates who are standing on the floor at almost any time, and they have the ability to shock them at their work stations or elsewhere as need be. 

10 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Syril is going to end up being a massive wrench in someone's operations, either the Empire's or the Rebellions. The dude seriously needs to take every chill pill, his obsession is going to get him killed, ruffling so many scary feathers.

Syril is a creepy stalker who is headed for some kind of mental or psychotic breakdown. There is no way his story ends well and I doubt he will become a hero to either side. 

I loved the dress Vel gave Mon Montha's daughter. It reminded me of something late 60s/early70s. 

[paigow]

The final escape plan needs ships... lots of ships... no way everybody is going to help Cassian if there is only one shuttle.

Even Karn is not dumb  / delusional enough to think that Dedra would fall in love with him... He needs her influence to hunt Cassian.

Who is going to be stunt casted as the loan shark / thug... Davos Seaworth?

[Tachi Rocinante]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

Who is going to be stunt casted as the loan shark / thug... Davos Seaworth?

My vote is for Sadavir Errinwright from The Expanse or Sean Renard from Grimm.

[wanderingstar]

Cassian being so caring with Ulaf really moved me. When he told the doctor to call Ulaf by his name, it felt like he wanted to maintain the man's dignity as much as possible - even in such a dehumanizing place.

[absnow54]

11 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I definitely did not have Dedra/Karn romance on my BINGO card.

To be fair, Dedra does not seem to have a Dedra/Karn romance on her BINGO card either. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

To be fair, Dedra does not seem to have a Dedra/Karn romance on her BINGO card either. 

Karn is a few balls short anyway...

[norcalgal]

4 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

My vote is for Sadavir Errinwright from The Expanse or Sean Renard from Grimm.

Too bad there's no need for Sean Renard to speak French in the Galaxy Far Far Away...

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:32 AM, Athena5217 said:

Debra is an interesting villain. One moment, I hate her for torturing Bix, the next moment I sympathize with her for having to deal with creepy stalker Syril.

This show really works the emotional whiplash. I went from "Die, fascist bitch!" to "Oh, I feel you, sister," and then back to "Die, fascist bitch." I've experienced so much like her situation with Karn, the "we were both at a meeting where coffee was served, but that doesn't mean we 'had coffee.' It was a business interaction, not a date" issue along with "I know this is a public place and I have no expectation of privacy while I'm in public, but it's still creepy that you're following me and watching me while I'm in public." So I relate even while I hate her.

And then there was Kino, who went from bootlicking bully to somewhat sympathetic. He really seemed to care about Ulaf, even before the stroke. He was so happy for him getting near the end of his sentence and so eager to help him. And then there was his big flip at the end to apparently joining Cassian's plans. It is interesting that he seems to be aware that the prisoners are plotting something, and he knows they're communicating with other groups, but he never ratted them out even though he didn't support them.

Or Karn, where I find myself siding with him when he's talking to his mother, and then "Ew, creep!" when he's with Meero. I suspect he's going to get himself in trouble.

This show likes to keep us off-balance.

The costumes continue to be amazing. I want Mon Mothma's at-home outfit. It's stylish but looks comfortable, like really elegant lounging pajamas.

[wanderingstar]

I don't think that Syril is in love with/has feelings for Dedra. It's more like he views her as a role model of sorts and would like to be validated by her. He's definitely an Empire true believer and obsessive. But I don't think Dedra is like that. She doesn't really strike me as an ideologue. 

[tv-talk]

17 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

but I couldn't quite follow all of the intrigue on the prison planet. 

Same! And it was ruining the episode but I set my TV to automatically do subtitles when you skip back at all- that took care of it and the episode was terrific. The prison situation is great tv, it really is. Andy Serkis is an excellent actor as well, and now that he's onboard with an escape or revolt the show should only get better.

Try as I might, I just dont care much for the Senator's plot though it will surely come full circle with everything else.

So is Forrest Whitaker going to die?? I hope not, would love to see an arc that involved his group moreso than just being the first big victory for the Empire.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

So is Forrest Whitaker going to die??

He has the same plot armour as Cassian

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

He has the same plot armour as Cassian

Unless we learn that both the Andor and Saw from Rogue One were actually... CLONES!!!!

[tkc]

I’m sure someone has already commented on this, but it’s fascinating to see the Star Wars universe drawn in details that we’ve possibly guessed at before, but have never spent much time with because we’ve been too busy with blasters, spaceships and lightsabers…

The galaxy as a playground for amoral corporations.

The Empire as a colonizing force, strip-mining planets and enjoying the sights as they do so.

The Imperial regime as full-on dystopia.

Much more nuance than just good guys vs. bad guys.

Edited November 4, 2022 by tkc

[Ohiopirate02]

6 hours ago, tkc said:

I’m sure someone has already commented on this, but it’s fascinating to see the Star Wars universe drawn in details that we’ve possibly guessed at before, but have never spent much time with because we’ve been too busy with blasters, spaceships and lightsabers…

The galaxy as a playground for amoral corporations.

The Empire as a colonizing force, strip-mining planets and enjoying the sights as they do so.

The Imperial regime as full-on dystopia.

Much more nuance than just good guys vs. bad guys.

I would say that this show is making the implicit from the movies explicit, but that's not entirely the case.  George Lucas is a lot of things and subtle has never been one.  He didn't pick the name stormtroopers out of a hat.  The galaxy being a playground for amoral corporations is a large part of the plot of The Phantom Menace plus the prequels being an allegory for current day American politics.  

That being said, I feel like this series is borrowing more from the Soviet Union than the Nazi Germany Lucas alluded to in the original trilogy.  A prison system where prisoners' sentences are arbitrarily extended and no one really gets out feels more like a gulag.  

[KeithJ]

Does Diego Luna have some sort of physical issue where he can't put his hands on his head?  All the scenes where the prisoners have their hands on the back of their heads his hands are at the side of his head barely touching his ears.

[angora]

Could it be because his hair is longer? Most of the inmates have short hair, and if Diego Luna was pressing his hands to the back of his head, they might have to fix his hair between takes, for continuity purposes. Whatever the reason, I think it makes Cassian look tense/prepared, like he's ready to spring into action if he has to.

[tv-talk]

56 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

Does Diego Luna have some sort of physical issue where he can't put his hands on his head?  All the scenes where the prisoners have their hands on the back of their heads his hands are at the side of his head barely touching his ears.

It's his little bit of resistance as he bides his time.

[paigow]

59 minutes ago, angora said:

Could it be because his hair is longer? 

Or hates the Writer & Director... but as a Producer, he can only blame himself for that...

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:02 PM, Ms.Moon said:

Basically there’s no out for the prisoners.  They were supposed to release a prisoner and he got sent back so they killed an entire floor of people when the prisoners found out.

Yeah, the way I understood it, a prisoner who was supposedly released at the end of his sentence but was only just moved to a different room ended up being sent to a room he'd worked in before where they thought he'd been released, which meant all those people realized that no one was actually getting released. What seems to be happening is that a prisoner whose sentence ends is taken from the room he's been working in, and everyone there thinks he's been released, but he's really just being sent to a different room. In this case, he was later moved again and sent to a room he'd worked in before where everyone thought he'd been released. I wonder if that means this poor guy served out two different sentences, only to be moved instead of released, or if he was just reassigned for other reasons the second time.

But then I also have to wonder how word hasn't spread about this so far. Surely a guy who thought he was being released but got sent back to work in another place would have said something. One possibility is that there's a special floor for the guys who've been "released," but that would be a morale nightmare, and it would make the error of sending one of them to a place he's worked before even dumber. So, here's how I figure it might work:

Very few people are ever even supposedly released. They only need one from each room every so often, just enough for someone in the room to remember seeing someone get released so that they still think it's a possibility. Otherwise, everyone just has their sentences extended along the way, for various excuses. In under two months, Cassian's room has had two deaths and no releases, so it doesn't seem to happen often. They might need to "release" only one prisoner per room every few years.

The "release" is probably only ever just implied. People would know when someone is getting to the end of the sentence, so they'd assume if the guards call for that person that they're getting out, but there's probably never any official announcement of what's happening. When the person being "released" gets out of the room to meet with the authorities, they're probably told that something's come up that extends their sentence. If they object or protest, they get zapped and another year or two added to their sentence. Then they might throw in a carrot with the stick -- if they're good and stay out of trouble, they're on track to becoming a supervisor. It seems that Cassian's the one to figure out that in spite of the aura of constant surveillance, no one is actually listening, so someone who still thinks that freedom might be just ahead if he stays out of trouble might keep his mouth shut and not tell anyone in his new room that he should have been released but just got his sentence extended instead. Since no one talks about this, they don't realize that it happens to everyone, that no one ever gets released. Each guy may think he's a special case, that he did something that got his sentence extended or there was a glitch that meant his sentence counter was inaccurate while other people really are being released. It was only when an entire room full of people saw that someone they believed got out was actually still there that the truth hit and became a danger. If everyone in the prison realizes they're never getting out, then they have nothing to lose by resisting.

[Ilovepie]

10 hours ago, tkc said:

I’m sure someone has already commented on this, but it’s fascinating to see the Star Wars universe drawn in details that we’ve possibly guessed at before, but have never spent much time with because we’ve been too busy with blasters, spaceships and lightsabers…

The galaxy as a playground for amoral corporations.

The Empire as a colonizing force, strip-mining planets and enjoying the sights as they do so.

The Imperial regime as full-on dystopia.

Much more nuance than just good guys vs. bad guys.

I watched this episode last night and I couldn't sleep because I couldn't stop thinking about it. I used the word chilling about last week's episode, but this one doubled down. This show is really pulling back the curtain on why the Empire is EVIL with a capital E. The complete control on every level is nightmarish. Even Mon Mothma's conversation with Tay was real world scary - it's her money but she can't access it because even that is being monitored and she can't even speak about it out loud in her own home! The euthanasia of poor Ulaf was horrifying on a level Star Wars has never reached, and knowing the doctor was just as helpless there as Cassian or Kino made it even more bleak. The realization no one is leaving that prison. The blithe torturing and murder of people on Ferrix with the knowledge that Cassian's mom is probably next. It was all so awful, and not a Vader or Palpatine or Dooku in sight. Scary stuff.

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

The blithe torturing and murder of people on Ferrix with the knowledge that Cassian's mom is probably next.

She has plot armour courtesy of Dedra. Mom needs to be kept alive, healthy and free so Cassian can be lured back to Ferrix.

[SnoGirl]

The trading of prisoners was confusing, but I thought it had to do with the law Mon was protesting and the prisoners were talking about last episode-PROD? I figured the Empire pushed it to keep the prisoners across the galaxy.

Watching the Kino flip was impressive for a single episode. Andy Serkis is amazing. The first panic about Floor Two. Demanding to know what happened to Floor Two and then his last line of “Never more than 12.” I couldn’t keep my eyes off of Serkis.

Think Cassian is trying to cut the electricity to their work floor? Its hard to have a fair fight when the floor is part of the fight.

I wonder if we know the captured Rebel pilot or if its just a passing reference to show us again the ruthlessness of the Empire. I thought maybe for a moment it was Luthen.

After seeing Saw, I’m trying to keep very low expectations for other connections to other Star Wars. But with the looming prison break, I can’t stop thinking about Ezra Bridger’s radio broadcast and his own parent’s prison break. I like the connections to Rogue One but always want more to the world’s smallest galaxy. 

[MJ Frog]

I like the call back to Episode IV when the door closed on Bix's torture, which was a direct reference to Leia's torture scene on the Death Star. This show is doing a really good job at showing us just why we should hate the Empire, beyond that they're the bad guys. Take that, "the Empire was right" Youtube-video-making revisionist dweebs.

[paigow]

If any of these guys are in the prison, Cassian might get out...

[Captain Carrot]

On 11/3/2022 at 3:05 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

I don't think that Syril is in love with/has feelings for Dedra. It's more like he views her as a role model of sorts and would like to be validated by her. He's definitely an Empire true believer and obsessive. But I don't think Dedra is like that. She doesn't really strike me as an ideologue. 

I think that Syril thinks he is in love with Dedra, but it's more of an obsession. To me the question is how this will affect the plot; will he go on a rampage due to being rejected; will one of her ISB enemies use him to get at her; or will she find a use for him? (And I did see some reactors on YouTube that thought this was a romantic subplot, which I find really upsetting if you think his actions are romantic or a woman would find them romantic).

And I do think I have to disagree with you regarding Dedra's motivations. We're used to seeing people like Vador, Palpatine, or Tarkin using the power the Empire gives them like a club. I think with Dedra we are seeing a true believer in the "order" that the Empire brings and not someone out for personal power. This is what allows her to come across as a human being one moment and a monster the next.

She truly believes that her monstrous actions are for the greater good.

[wmdekooning]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:29 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Syril is a creepy stalker who is headed for some kind of mental or psychotic breakdown. There is no way his story ends well and I doubt he will become a hero to either side. 

I don’t believe his Mum is ganna make it to the end of the series…

[raven]

2 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

I don’t believe his Mum is ganna make it to the end of the series…

I was thinking the same.  Karn is on the edge and Mama is the first in his way.  I don't know if Disney will go that dark, though.

The torturer give Bix a friendly wave was a really WTF moment.  He seems to just look at his job as an interesting science experiment.

I didn't think Karn had a romantic interest in Dedra - I don't think he would be oblivious to how risky his behavior was if he had a romantic interest.  He thinks that Dedra shares his obsession with Cassian.  Nothing is more important to Karn, IMO, than finding Cassian and in his mind, he has a partner for that now.

Though I felt this episode dragged a bit, I appreciate that Cassian is someone who is always aware, always watching and that he asks questions.  

On 11/4/2022 at 9:28 PM, SnoGirl said:

Watching the Kino flip was impressive for a single episode. Andy Serkis is amazing. The first panic about Floor Two. Demanding to know what happened to Floor Two and then his last line of “Never more than 12.” I couldn’t keep my eyes off of Serkis.

Yes!  The delivery of the last line was perfect.  I hope he makes it out of the prison (and series) alive.  

I can't quite decide if Mon Mothma's husband is an Empire spy or if he's an ass who only cares about his own comforts.   

In the shallow end, I'm totally here for MM's fabulous wardrobe.  

[paigow]

1 hour ago, raven said:

I was thinking the same.  Karn is on the edge and Mama is the first in his way.  I don't know if Disney will go that dark, though.

There should be a hostage stand-off. Both mothers are kidnapped but Karn catches Cassian off-guard at the swap by killing his own mother...

[Sarah 103]

16 hours ago, raven said:

I can't quite decide if Mon Mothma's husband is an Empire spy or if he's an ass who only cares about his own comforts.   

My vote is kept man, but I seem to recall that they come from the same background, so it would be unfair to say he married her for the money (even if it was an arranged marriage). I could see the Empire turning Mon Mothma's daughter into a spy without the the teenager fully realizing what's happened until it's too late. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Sarah 103

[Shanna Marie]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:54 PM, Captain Carrot said:

I think with Dedra we are seeing a true believer in the "order" that the Empire brings and not someone out for personal power. This is what allows her to come across as a human being one moment and a monster the next.

She truly believes that her monstrous actions are for the greater good.

This is what I meant a couple of weeks ago when I was talking about her primary motivation not being ambition. Yeah, she'd like to be rewarded for her excellence and to move up in the ranks, but her primary motivation seems to be to support the Empire and weed out enemies to the Empire, squashing any rebellion before it can get going. She went against the wishes of her supervisors and colleague to do the investigating she was doing, which was risky if her main motive was ambition, but it makes sense if she really cared deeply about stopping the rebellion that everyone else was being too blind to notice, and I think she was aware of the risk if she turned out to be wrong or if she couldn't get anyone to listen. I'd be curious to learn some of her backstory. It's hard to judge her age, since she's so stern-looking that she might seem older than her years (and besides, age is already screwy on this series since our main character is five years younger than we last saw him, but played by an actor who's six years older than when he played the character before), but she likely grew up during the chaos of the Clone Wars, so she might have seen the Empire as a savior in taking them from that chaos to order.

With Karn, I don't think he's a true believer in the Empire, in the corporation, or anything else, unless it might get him ahead. Now he's gone all-in with the Empire as the best bet toward getting revenge on Andor and impressing Dedra, which he seems to see as his current best path toward success and recognition, but I didn't get the impression that his previous actions were about doing the best for the Empire. He's got a Freudian thing going on with his mother, where he's simultaneously trying to prove himself to his impossible-to-please mother and get revenge on his hated mother by being successful. He's going to ally with anyone who can get him that. Heck, I suspect that if Luthen had approached him during the time he was in cubicle hell before getting hauled in by Dedra and had given him a similar pep talk/recruiting speech to what he gave Cassian, about how he could be valuable and could do work that mattered, he might have been willing to join the rebels. And then he'd have tried to move up in the rebel hierarchy and maybe get himself on the Empire's Most Wanted list, since that would be the only way for his mother to see what he'd achieved (and maybe get her in hot water, while he's at it). Meanwhile, his Hall Monitor From Hell/I am the law and the law is not mocked attitude is likely a way to claw back some sense of power and control after being under his mother's thumb. His pursuit of the case in spite of his boss telling him to drop it was risky, but I don't think he saw it as a risk. He was totally confident he would succeed, and his boss was out of town. He seemed to imagine presenting his boss with his results when he returned and getting praised for it, or at least getting praised by his boss's superiors and his boss getting smacked down for wanting to drop the case. Even after he failed horribly, he seemed utterly stunned that he was in trouble for what he'd done.

[Morrigan2575]

On 11/6/2022 at 5:13 PM, wmdekooning said:

I don’t believe his Mum is ganna make it to the end of the series…

I keep waiting for him to kill his mother.  He just looks ready to snap in every scene with her.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I keep waiting for him to kill his mother.  He just looks ready to snap in every scene with her.

He is wound so tight he is going to kill someone.  If not his overbearing mother, then someone else possibly Dedra.  This could get interesting if Syril has to go on the run for murder.  

[angora]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

He's going to ally with anyone who can get him that. Heck, I suspect that if Luthen had approached him during the time he was in cubicle hell before getting hauled in by Dedra and had given him a similar pep talk/recruiting speech to what he gave Cassian, about how he could be valuable and could do work that mattered, he might have been willing to join the rebels. And then he'd have tried to move up in the rebel hierarchy and maybe get himself on the Empire's Most Wanted list, since that would be the only way for his mother to see what he'd achieved (and maybe get her in hot water, while he's at it).

If Karn became a Rebel, it'd only be a matter of time before he got caught, since he'd bring his Rebel uniform/undercover disguise/whatever in for some light tailoring at the FIRST opportunity.

[paigow]

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

This could get interesting if Syril has to go on the run for murder.  

Then he gets caught for a lesser offence and sent to Narkina 5 before anybody checks the database...

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Then he gets caught for a lesser offence and sent to Narkina 5 before anybody checks the database...

Is Narkina 5 still going to operate as a prison after the yet to be determined events we all know are coming?  I think we are beyond a prison break for Cassian and Melshi plus a few others and are on the course for a prison-wide riot.  

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, angora said:

If Karn became a Rebel, it'd only be a matter of time before he got caught, since he'd bring his Rebel uniform/undercover disguise/whatever in for some light tailoring at the FIRST opportunity.

If he'd been part of the heist team, he'd have been spotted as an impostor right away because of the extra piping and braiding he'd added to his stolen Imperial uniform.