S02.E08: Allison's House

[PrincessPurrsALot]

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Streaming on AMC+ 2022.10.03

Original network air date 2022.10.10

[Spartan Girl]

The real Kevin was every bit as hideous as we thought it would be.

Maybe the ending was rushed, but it was oh so satisfying.

[NeenerNeener]

I've been waiting for Erinn Hayes to show up ever since the press release awhile back. I thought maybe she would be the reporter...but this was the perfect part. She got to walk out on "Kevin".

This was a weird show, but I loved it. I think 2 seasons is about all this premise could support, though, so ending it now was the correct choice. And I agree with Spartan Girl, very satisfying ending.

Just now, NeenerNeener said:

Edited October 3, 2022 by NeenerNeener

[Spartan Girl]

People already hate the finale because they feel queerbaited that there was no romantic resolution between Allison and Patty. But you really can’t expect either one of them to immediately jump into a relationship after being in bad ones for so long. They’re both free and they’re together if not together.

[Harvey]

So we finally get to see real world Kevin, and all he does is stomp once, and set a passport on fire? What an underwhelming revelation for an utterly underwhelming finale. Whoever wrote this was such a fool, this was a huge waste of a perfectly good concept.

At least Allison's ending was good, her moving in with Patty is a nice conclusion. But this season was meandering, slow, boring, weak and I feel cheated.

[Cranberry]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

People already hate the finale because they feel queerbaited that there was no romantic resolution between Allison and Patty. But you really can’t expect either one of them to immediately jump into a relationship after being in bad ones for so long. They’re both free and they’re together if not together.

Yeah, it was too soon. I think the promise is there, though. Or at least I hope it's there, or else Patty is living with someone she has feelings for (confirmed by the showrunner as fact) and who will never return them, which is pretty miserable!

I don't think real-life Kevin had to actually hit Allison to demonstrate he was a bad guy. He belittled her, he loomed over her, he punched the wall -- hard -- right beside her. The threat was there. I'm glad we got to see him outside of the sitcom world; I believe the showrunner's original intention was to never do that.

I liked that Patty told Tammy and Neil to leave. I liked that Diane told Neil she couldn't fix him. I liked that Pete got the hell away from town. I didn't like that Tammy was the one to find Allison, or that we didn't get many scenes with Patty and Allison in the finale. I liked the finale, I guess, but I didn't love it.

[NeenerNeener]

2 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I don't think real-life Kevin had to actually hit Allison to demonstrate he was a bad guy. He belittled her, he loomed over her, he punched the wall -- hard -- right beside her. The threat was there. I'm glad we got to see him outside of the sitcom world; I believe the showrunner's original intention was to never do that.

Yeah, I think that "real world" scene made it pretty obvious that she was right to leave him. And on top of trying to talk her in to staying by negging her, he drank an entire bottle of alcohol, started a fire with her belongings INSIDE THE HOUSE, and then passed out. Real life Kevin was at least as big an a**hole as sitcom Kevin.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that he flat-out told her he'd fucking destroy her, which wasn't an idle threat. We've seen him destroy people who hadn't even wronged him (in his eyes) that badly. He was definitely dangerous.

[Pj3422]

That was a satisfying ending. Not exactly tied up in perfect little bows… but close enough. However, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to hear “This Guy’s in Love with You” the same way again. Loved Patty lighting up a cigarette on the steps of that smoldering husk of a home. 

[Cranberry]

Oh, forgot to mention that I've known for a while the house was going to burn thanks to stumbling across this article:

https://www.masslive.com/police-fire/2022/05/no-this-brockton-home-did-not-burn-down-sitcom-kevin-can-fk-himself-is-filming-in-the-city-this-week.html

I didn't know who'd be responsible, though. I think it's so cool how a production can make a perfectly-fine house look like it burned up.

[Avabelle]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

People already hate the finale because they feel queerbaited that there was no romantic resolution between Allison and Patty

I think they absolutely queerbaited. It seemed to be the only thing they felt they could rely on to keep viewers invested. That and the eventual reveal of a non sitcom Kevin (a lackluster event in the end).

I’m so glad it’s over. It dragged the last few episodes. My question is how much worse had it been he thru gotten another season since they clearly didn’t plan to end it post season two.

Also Patty saying her favourite night ever was sitting in with Allison trying to pull her tooth out was just depresssing. Their friendship was all about Alison and I can’t see it changing. Did Alison even ask how Patty was when Tammy called?

Edited October 3, 2022 by Avabelle

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

Their friendship was all about Alison and I can’t see it changing.

And that’s exactly why they shouldn’t be in a romantic relationship. Their friendship was only considered healthy when it was compared to the ones they had with Kurt, Kevin, Neil, and Tammy.

I loved how Molly was introduced as the anti-Allison—sweet, accommodating, tolerant, aka the Cool Girl. Not yet worn down but getting there. Good thing she listened to Allison before it was too late.

[Whimsy]

I have no interest in Allison and Patty being a couple. I don’t think it could ever work based on what people have commented on about Allison through the series. I also never got any romantic feelings from Allison’s side. I think it is very one sided and I think Patty deserves better. 
 

They didn’t say it or show a body (at least that I saw), but I’m assuming Kevin is dead?  I was not impressed with the actor who played Kevin throughout the series. His voice was always so shrill and I know his personality was amplified to reflect the sitcom world, but I did become pretty impressed with Eric Peterson when he switched to the “real world” Kevin. His timber was lower, he raised his bulk up to be more intimidating, and the look in his eyes were cold. So, well done. Even if he never actually hit Allison (and I’m not convinced he never did), he was a terrible person. I’m glad everyone finally left him in the end. 

[chocolatine]

I liked that Kevin ended up being his own undoing, but I agree that the episode was very rushed. And while Tammy wasn't the right partner for Patty, she wasn't wrong that Patty needed a change. The way it ended, I have a feeling Patty will just build her life around supporting Allison, which will turn into a toxic codependence similar to her relationship with Neil.

[Avabelle]

11 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

And while Tammy wasn't the right partner for Patty, she wasn't wrong that Patty needed a change.

I didn’t like Tammy but I think Patty dicked her around. She was never invested in the relationship. She always had one foot out the door and I think she should have called time on it a lot sooner.

[Harvey]

5 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Yeah, I forgot to mention that he flat-out told her he'd fucking destroy her, which wasn't an idle threat. We've seen him destroy people who hadn't even wronged him (in his eyes) that badly. He was definitely dangerous.

And then what did he do? Drank himself to sleep and indirectly killed himself with the fire. All bark no bite. The show didn't make him nearly as bad as he should have been.

[Cranberry]

Did you want him to punch her in the face?

I made a list a while back of all the stuff he's done, and he's done more since, like causing a city-wide blackout by messing with fireworks, tracking Allison's phone, getting a reporter fired and leaving a fake bloody horse head on her windshield, stealing a stop sign and causing a car accident, leaving Neil to be arrested for a crime Kevin dragged him into and never caring or apologizing, making false statements about Tammy in an effort to get her fired, blackmailing Diane (to the tune of $500) by threatening to tell her violent husband she's cheating, backing Allison into the wall and punching it hard right beside her... I'm sure there's some I've forgotten. Abuse isn't always physical.

[Pj3422]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

People already hate the finale because they feel queerbaited that there was no romantic resolution between Allison and Patty. But you really can’t expect either one of them to immediately jump into a relationship after being in bad ones for so long. They’re both free and they’re together if not together.

I didn’t see it as queerbaiting. To me, it was like Thelma & Louise holding hands as they go over the cliff. 

[Avabelle]

I thought the actor playing Kevin was really good and I wish they’d given him a longer reveal scene. In a season where we had to watch so much pointless crap they could have given us a longer non sitcom Kevin scene.

[DrSpaceman73]

I liked the finale. The slow loss of all connections from Kevin and the realization he has nothing left 

Got pretty dark quickly when she told him she was leaving. It was a nice illustration of the difficulty women have leaving manipulative man.  I know it was debated if he was physically abusive and it just wasn't shown. I believe he likely was based on that scene. It got the point across without actual violence 

Then the lack of anyone trying to save him just watching the house burn. Poetic. 

I dont really care if they're lesbians or not I doubt it myself.

Thought it was a strong ending 

I heard they planned a 3rd season but cut it to 2 which I think is OK. Story was told and didn't need dragged out longer. 

[Aileen]

I thought it was absolutely fantastic. The audience finally turning on Kevin was great.

[AgathaC]

15 hours ago, Cranberry said:

backing Allison into the wall and punching it hard right beside her... I'm sure there's some I've forgotten. Abuse isn't always physical.

From a DV perspective, that actually is considered physical abuse. Trapping someone, blocking their path, looming, breaking objects or punching walls — those are all considered forms of physical intimidation and violence. Even if Kevin never actually laid a hand on her, what we did see is usually a very short baby step from what most people think of as battery. Chances are, he would have gone there if he hadn’t already.

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, AgathaC said:

Chances are, he would have gone there if he hadn’t already.

I've always assumed he has already. If you watch the clinic scene in season one episode seven, Allison has some bruises on her arm/elbow... looks like the kind you could get if someone shoved you into something.

[Whimsy]

15 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I liked the finale. The slow loss of all connections from Kevin and the realization he has nothing left 

Got pretty dark quickly when she told him she was leaving. It was a nice illustration of the difficulty women have leaving manipulative man.  I know it was debated if he was physically abusive and it just wasn't shown. I believe he likely was based on that scene. It got the point across without actual violence 

Then the lack of anyone trying to save him just watching the house burn. Poetic. 

I dont really care if they're lesbians or not I doubt it myself.

Thought it was a strong ending 

I heard they planned a 3rd season but cut it to 2 which I think is OK. Story was told and didn't need dragged out longer. 

I thought they had a lot of subtle hints throughout the series that there were times that Kevin was either straight-out abusive or his actions caused Allison to injure herself (like, maybe menacingly stalk towards her so she tries to get out of the way and hit herself on the door jam or something). The only thing that made me second guess that was the last scene with Kevin and Allison was right in his face. From my experiences, abused people do try to stay out of arms length of their abuser, even if they get the courage to verbally fight back. 

2 hours ago, AgathaC said:

From a DV perspective, that actually is considered physical abuse. Trapping someone, blocking their path, looming, breaking objects or punching walls — those are all considered forms of physical intimidation and violence. Even if Kevin never actually laid a hand on her, what we did see is usually a very short baby step from what most people think of as battery. Chances are, he would have gone there if he hadn’t already.

And, yes, all of this. The abuser doesn’t need to lay hands on the other person to be considered an abuser. 

[DrSpaceman73]

I still think Neal leaving Kevin was the real strong point of the season. 

The whole series is about breaking unhealthy entrenched relationships in various forms. Not just Kevin and Allison. 

Kevin and Neal. 

Neal and his sister. 

Neal and the new girlfriend. 

Kevin and the new girlfriend. 

Kevin snd Allison. 

Allison and Sam.

Kevin and his dad.

Probably others. 

[AgathaC]

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

I thought they had a lot of subtle hints throughout the series that there were times that Kevin was either straight-out abusive or his actions caused Allison to injure herself (like, maybe menacingly stalk towards her so she tries to get out of the way and hit herself on the door jam or something). The only thing that made me second guess that was the last scene with Kevin and Allison was right in his face. From my experiences, abused people do try to stay out of arms length of their abuser, even if they get the courage to verbally fight back. 

And, yes, all of this. The abuser doesn’t need to lay hands on the other person to be considered an abuser. 

Exactly. That’s one of the things the general public doesn’t always get. Actual skin-on-skin physical contact isn’t required for a situation to be abusive. Even physically.

These relationships are complicated and difficult to understand for those who haven’t lived it. As someone who has been through a relationship where there was verbal, emotional and (indirect) physical abuse, I do think they got some things right. Even Allison getting in Kevin’s face (been there, done that). I’m just not sure they fully hit the mark. Like I said. It’s very tricky and complicated and doesn’t fit into the “abusive relationship” stereotypes that have become familiar.

[Avabelle]

I feel like the could have wrapped this up nicely with better pay off had they stuck to a limited season. We could have avoided all the dragged out boring details of how she faked her death and maybe gotten a better pay off scene with Kevin. I waited for that scene the entire series and it was too short. The actor was really good and I feel the scene deserved a little longer.

[racked]

I enjoyed the finale but do feel like the rest of the season was too slow and underwhelming. I liked the Diane and Neil plot most of all and while that ending was also good I wanted more of that story.
 

Patty saying Alison was her favorite person in the world broke my heart a little. 

[Avabelle]

9 hours ago, racked said:

Patty saying Alison was her favorite person in the world broke my heart a little. 

It did for me too but Only because I felt so shitty for Patty. Allison is only a good friend by comparison to who is currently in her life. In reality though the relationship is all about Allison.

[WaltersHair]

I secretly enjoyed it because some of it was completely unbelievable. When Kevin died in the house, Allison realized that's not what she wanted at all.  I think the show was trying to say that humans run around like chickens with their heads cut off because they don't know what they really want. Allison and Patty realized they didn't want life partners, just good friends they can rely on.

That was my take. Kevin was a real @sshole as a reveal. Nick was the emotional drain he always was, and Tammy was too good for Worcester.

2 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

changed because I wrote Nick.

Edited October 11, 2022 by WaltersHair

[cardigirl]

Well, I'm still processing, but the best thing I can say about the show is that Eric Peterson was fantastic in the role. Actually, I enjoyed all the actors, I just wish the story had been stronger? Or something. I liked Allison so much more when she was not in Worcester.

Felt kind of sad for Tammy, but was happy she was getting out of Worcester and maybe going to a happier relationship. 

I guess Worcester will be nice now, because Kevin died.  

[possibilities]

Allison faked her death to save Patty. That's a big deal. In the beginning, she wasn't a great friend. But Patty had for years been a terrible friend to Allison, too, aligning herself with Kevin and his crew as they mocked Allison.

Both Patty and Allison grew once they opened up to each other and Patty told her the truth about Kevin, and Allison began to see Patty as someone who cared about her-- possibly the first time in her life she'd had that-- and eventually began to try to think of Patty as more than a rescuer for herself.

Yes, it was a mess. But they were both messes individually and they both improved. I see them as equal now. Allison became extremely brave. She found her independence when she moved away. She figured out who she was and what she wanted, and she learned that she could be treated with respect and that not everyone would just abuse and demean her. And she stood up to Kevin even when he threatened her, knowing what he was capable of. She was afraid and she did it anyway. And she did it honestly and to his face! She could easily have left him and served divorce papers from a safe distance. She didn't choose the easy way.

Patty also realized what it was like to have a friend who thought of her needs instead of only making demands on her. Tammy never really accepted Patty. She was always criticizing and pushing her to change and didn't ultimately respect her choices. It's fine that they were incompatible, but Tammy was so needy and condescending about it, and even though she knew Patty misses Allison, she never told her Allison was alive, or how to find her. She wasn't as bad as Kevin, but she wasn't really a respectful partner, either.

I thought the fear radiating off Allison when Kevin backed her into the wall and was threatening her was palpable It wasn't just the acting on Kevin's side. They were both fantastic in that scene.

For most of the episode, I thought Neil was going to kill Kevin. That would have been the usual tv twist, and I think what they actually did was better. Kevin was incapable of functioning without his enablers. He completely imploded and literally self-immolated when he had no one's adoration or fear to feed off of. He never stopped being an abusive horrible person, he had nothing else in him to draw on. He went to his death on a wave of hate.

Maybe if the show had continued, they would have shown him trying to destroy Allison, rather than just having him flame out right away. But I do know someone who committed suicide as soon as his wife left him. He had been abusing her for decades and when she left, he killed himself as revenge against her. He did it right away, before the divorce was final. Some people are incapable of mustering anything other than abuse and when no one will take it anymore, they implode. 

Most of them go looking for another victim, though.

I worry about how many people don't seem to really see Kevin as being "that bad". I honestly don't know how to process that info. He seems like a monster, to me. I don't even think it's subtle or ambiguous at all. But then, domestic violence is so common, maybe people take it as normal. It's upsetting. 

I hadn't thought about the queerbaiting angle. I hated Thelma and Louise, because it seemed to say that suicide was the ultimate liberation, and it posed the cop that was chasing them as a good guy trying to be a hero. I can't even think about that movie without becoming sick with disgust. But I didn't mind the Allison/Patty friendship. I'm a lesbian and I do get annoyed by queerbaiting. I hated Rissoli and Isles for that reason. R&I was queerbaiting because they weren't really developing it as a genuine attraction between the characters. It was entirely to tease the audience.

But with this show, first of all I thought the acting was fantastic. And guess what? Sometimes people get attracted to someone and it's not reciprocated but they aren't abusive assholes who feel entitled to the other person's reciprocation, so it's okay. TV seems to think that adults can't handle their feelings and have to go full angst because someone doesn't want to fuck them. Or they end a friendship because they can't handle the feelings. Or they in some other way just act like spoiled brat obnoxious assholes.

Adults can cope with these things, and it's okay. 

When I think about "what if the show had continued" I hope Allison can get insurance money from the house, but maybe if they rule it a suicide and/or arson, that won't happen. I don't think she'll be a suspect if Neil testifies that Kevin left him that message saying he's doing it to get revenge. Plus, maybe they'll figure out Kevin was drunk. 

I actually didn't assume Patty and Allison were going to live together. I thought they were going to be best friends, and who knows what the future will bring. They're both just barely shaking off the depression and trauma they've been carrying around all their lives. The show didn't go on long enough to show what happens once you change. It only showed the moment when you finally break the patterns.

We don't know how Neil will survive, either. I have zero theories about how he'd manage. Maybe he gets a job at the bowling alley? I don't know.

I think this show was brilliant. Not perfect. But I give them a lot of credit not only for the creative framing, but also the storytelling itself.

Edited October 11, 2022 by possibilities

[possibilities]

The other reason the show wasn't queerbaiting, as far as I'm concerned, is that Patty actually did have a relationship with Tammy. This was not a "Well of Loneliness" story where the lesbians are unloved. I also appreciated that they didn't portray lesbians as all gooey all the time. There was nothing in this to titillate the male gaze. 

Patty's attraction for Allison was not predatory. And Patty was not without options. And Allison was not freaked out by it or just using Patty because Patty was hooked or some shit like that. The friendship was genuine. And Allison supported her relationship with Tammy.

[TiffanyNichelle]

So that was an ending. Very rushed but an ending I guess. Seeing Kevin in the real world was almost as disturbing as I thought it would be. I think it would have been better if he didn't have the silly beard. Glad Allison and Patty are together in the end and that Tammy has moved on. She never really got Patty, imo.

Edited October 11, 2022 by TiffanyNichelle

[Tabbygirl521]

I’m still stunned by the up-short shot of “Kevin’s” ball when he sat on the couch as his dad walked out.

I loved this show and I will really miss it. 

[Spartan Girl]

On rewatch, I realized that the confrontation with Kevin had the callback to the first episode, bringing up the times she wanted to move, go to school, and go to Paris, thinking that this was another passing thing that she wouldn’t follow through with. Only this time it was without the laugh track. And this time, when Allison walked out, she didn’t flip off the house.

[luna1122again]

I thought it was pretty brilliant. I do wish we'd gotten more of dark Kevin, because Eric Peterson was just astounding in those final scenes. I was riveted. And Annie was great too, of course. Yeah, the fear radiating from her as he punched the wall was so real, so disturbing. But she never stopped meeting his eyes, she didn't back down. It was just a great scene. 

I worry that Allison will be a suspect, tho. The day she returns to town, after faking her own death, is the day her husband dies in a fire? How is that not going to be huge red flag? Also, is faking your death, if you didn't benefit from life insurance or cause taxpayers thousands in manhunts, etc, illegal? 

I loved her little apartment, and honestly wish she could have just been happy in her new life. 

I never saw the Allison/Patty dynamic as queerbaiting, either, tho I'm also not sure I entirely grasp the definition of that term. There was never a hint, as far as I could see, that Allison was into Patty that way, or otherwise bi or pansexual. I'm not even sure Patty was in love with or attracted to Allison. She just... loves her. Friends love each other. 

I cannot see what the future would hold for Neil. He's an alcoholic big baby man child with no discernible skills or education or ambition or motivation. But at least he finally told Kevin to go to hell. 

I would have liked one more season, I think, but I'm satisfied with this ending. I'll miss it. I can't wait to see what the actors do next. 

[Spartan Girl]

One more thing: I think it’s interesting that Pete left without actually leaving sitcomland. It’s a pretty telling detail because while Neil went through some self-reflection, Pete was more or less the same racist asshole he always was. Yeah, he turned away from Kevin, but only because it was more convenient for him and his new relationship. He’s the one who created Kevin, literally and figuratively, with his enabling behavior. Like Allison’s mother, he’s probably living in his own sitcomland, he’s just changed sets. There’s no telling for sure if he’s any better with Darlene than Kevin was with Allison or Molly.

[Chyromaniac]

Well, sitcom Kevin finally got cancelled…

I (edit: also) think it’s interesting that the only person we never really see IRL is Pete (and his gf, I suppose).  If anyone, besides Kevin himself obviously, is responsible for creating the fantasy world of Kevin’s entitlement, it’s likely his dad- so it’s a bit of a shame that he gets to exit stage left, basically consequence free.

It was fun seeing Erinn Hayes, given how foundational her story is to the development of this series - clever of the producers to make her the replacement girl this time.  It does make me wonder if they could’ve talked Leah Remini into doing a cameo too at some point.  Also, if you’re gonna go all the way with the language warning, just have someone actually say, “Kevin can fuck himself,” before the end credits.

Still, as a finale, I think this worked reasonably well.  It certainly felt like they wrapped up the storylines in a satisfying way.  Given this conclusion, I think we can probably guess that season three would have likely been the six months of Allison on the run.  I think I’m okay with skipping all that - we get enough of the idea how Kevin, Patty, Sam, etc… react to her being gone, and her dealing with life as Gertrude.  I think the main thing we’d miss is the development of Molly as a character.  I think it would have been more impactful having her finally meet Allison IRL, if we had more time to get to know her in the sitcom world.

 Real Kevin wasn’t quite what I expected.  I think there was another poster who said that the bushy beard kind of made him look silly, which I mostly agree with.  It did downplay his potential menace.  I also get the aesthetic choice to always have the real house be dark (do they only pay their sitcom electric?), but that also made it harder to see him.  I guess I pictured Kevin in like the harshest neon light, pale, stubbly, with watery bloodshot eyes.  However, I liked the change in his hair- sitcom Kevin had his big goofy pompadour, while real Kev’s was kind of messy and matted.

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, luna1122again said:

I'm not even sure Patty was in love with or attracted to Allison.

Valerie Armstrong said she was, at least as of the end of season one! It didn't seem to me that Patty's feelings lessened in season two; if anything, they got stronger, with her saying Allison is her favorite person.

[luna1122again]

1 minute ago, Cranberry said:

Valerie Armstrong said she was, at least as of the end of season one! It didn't seem to me that Patty's feelings lessened in season two; if anything, they got stronger, with her saying Allison is her favorite person.

I hadn't read that before, so I guess that's canon, for sure. But I never saw any indication that Allison reciprocated romantic or sexual feelings. But love, definitely. I do think BFFs use that kind of language--you're my favorite person--without it being romantic, but I'll def defer to the show's creator for how Patty feels about Allison. 

I forgot to  mention Erinn Hayes...what a great, meta bit of casting. I never watched that stupid Kevin James show, so I'm not really familiar with her, but I thought she was great here. 

[possibilities]

I think that if the show had gone on longer, seeing Kevin try to destroy Allison for divorcing him would have been helpful in explaining why she felt she couldn't leave him and was pondering faking her death in the first place. I thought it was clear, but enough people have commented that it made no sense that I think it would have been a good use of the show to devote to that, if they'd had the time.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

3 hours ago, luna1122again said:

I thought it was pretty brilliant. I do wish we'd gotten more of dark Kevin, because Eric Peterson was just astounding in those final scenes. I was riveted. And Annie was great too, of course. Yeah, the fear radiating from her as he punched the wall was so real, so disturbing. But she never stopped meeting his eyes, she didn't back down. It was just a great scene. 

I worry that Allison will be a suspect, tho. The day she returns to town, after faking her own death, is the day her husband dies in a fire? How is that not going to be huge red flag? Also, is faking your death, if you didn't benefit from life insurance or cause taxpayers thousands in manhunts, etc, illegal? 

I loved her little apartment, and honestly wish she could have just been happy in her new life. 

I never saw the Allison/Patty dynamic as queerbaiting, either, tho I'm also not sure I entirely grasp the definition of that term. There was never a hint, as far as I could see, that Allison was into Patty that way, or otherwise bi or pansexual. I'm not even sure Patty was in love with or attracted to Allison. She just... loves her. Friends love each other. 

There was so much power in Allison not backing down and keeping her gaze.  Kevin was so accustomed to getting whatever he wanted, whether it was from negging, gaslighting, or him continuing to insist regardless of what others said.  I loved that she got to point out that he had lost everyone.  They all finally saw through him and realized he brought nothing but problems into their lives. 

I never saw Allison as being sexually attracted to Patty.  I did enjoy watching a real friendship grow among women.  TV likes to portray women as rivals for men's attention.  There really is not enough emphasis on the importance of friendship.  While Allison did use Patty quite a bit early in their budding friendship, and early on Patty held all of these negative thoughts about Allison, largely based on the interactions prompted by Kevin, they grew to genuinely like and understand each other.  Both women showed real growth over the course of the show and both realized their romantic relationships had been bad all along. 

It was also Diane who gave Allison money to get away.  She changed during the show, from the first season in which she was telling Allison how well she had done in marrying Kevin and that her marriage was the best she could hope for, to fully supporting her in leaving.  Throughout the seasons we saw people really examining their relationships and deciding what they needed.  The shame is Diane is still with her husband.  However, she was right in sending Neil packing.  He was looking for her to fulfill Patty's role of continually bailing him out and taking care of all of his needs. She cares about him deeply, but not enough to drown along with him. 

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I think that if the show had gone on longer, seeing Kevin try to destroy Allison for divorcing him would have been helpful in explaining why she felt she couldn't leave him and was pondering faking her death in the first place. I thought it was clear, but enough people have commented that it made no sense that I think it would have been a good use of the show to devote to that, if they'd had the time.

I think @Cranberry did a great job of listing the many things Kevin had done.  So for me there wasn't something missing.  We had seen him destroy other people over small slights. 

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

On rewatch, I realized that the confrontation with Kevin had the callback to the first episode, bringing up the times she wanted to move, go to school, and go to Paris, thinking that this was another passing thing that she wouldn’t follow through with. Only this time it was without the laugh track. And this time, when Allison walked out, she didn’t flip off the house.

I also liked that he listed all of the ways that Allison had supposedly failed to follow through.  How much of that was either due to his direct intervention (spending her tuition money) or due to him breaking her down? She didn't go to Paris.  Do we think she would have had access to any money she saved? They couldn't move because they were broke due to his spending on sports memorabilia. He got her fired from her professional job that was likely better income than working at the package store.  He had destroyed her life already; she was now getting it back. 

I enjoyed that, true to the show, Kevin died doing something that I could have seen happening in a sitcom; e.g., they broke up so he burned the "memories" of her. However, being the doofus husband, he lit the fire in the house instead of in a clearing. So the house was on fire.  In a sitcom, hilarity would have ensued (or so we would be led to expect).  In reality, he burned down their house and died from smoke inhalation while drunkenly passed out.  It was a fitting ending for him. 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Real Kevin wasn’t quite what I expected.  I think there was another poster who said that the bushy beard kind of made him look silly, which I mostly agree with.  It did downplay his potential menace.  I also get the aesthetic choice to always have the real house be dark (do they only pay their sitcom electric?), but that also made it harder to see him.  I guess I pictured Kevin in like the harshest neon light, pale, stubbly, with watery bloodshot eyes.  However, I liked the change in his hair- sitcom Kevin had his big goofy pompadour, while real Kev’s was kind of messy and matted.

He looked like a garden gnome. 

[seacliffsal]

My first and most overwhelming thought is that I'm glad the show is over.  I think that the show really represents what happens when people allow others to dictate their lives and what it takes to finally take control over ones' own life.  The characters tended to be reactive rather than proactive until this final episode.  Too much buildup with too little payoff.  

Allison and Neal both let Kevin define their lives and just reacted to him until each finally became proactive and took control of their own lives.  Patty let Tammy take the lead while passively putting up resistance until she finally told Tammy to leave.  However, there would need to be several long-term changes in all of them before they really start taking control of their own lives as it is really easy to fallback into long-term patterns.  Additionally, Allison may have some ongoing legal issues facing her.

Like others, I wish the final non-sitcom Kevin and Allison scene had been developed a bit more.  I also agree that the actor who played Kevin did an amazing job in that scene as he was finally allowed to be more than the one-dimensional sitcom Kevin.

[cardigirl]

I'm still hung up on the fact that Allison planned to have Kevin murdered in their home to make it look like a home invasion. She involved Patty in some dangerous behavior (even though Patty was already dealing drugs, but in a Robin Hood sort of way because her clients REALLY needed them and couldn't afford to get prescriptions?) and hired Nick to kill Kevin. Kevin manages to shoot Nick and not die himself, so then Allison spends the rest of her time trying not to get found out for attempted murder, coming up with more and more desparate schemes.

Nick dies (convenient) , and Tammy decides (because she cares about Patty) that no one needs to know about any of it?  I guess. 

[seacliffsal]

Okay, this will probably be hugely unpopular, but Kevin did have a point about Allison changing her mind.  Past change of decisions were probably influenced by Kevin and his actions, but we did watch her change her mind about killing Kevin, no-faking her death, no-coming back from the 'dead.'  Her life in New Hampshire seemed to be what she wanted-her boss appreciated her and offered her a full-time position and she was starting to make friends (her co-worker).  She also stated that she could never, ever, ask for a divorce and yet she did.  Yes, yes, I know that she had time to grow as a person and get to know what it was she really wanted, but we also saw that she did change course quite a bit.

Unanswered questions: why did she almost die (which was referenced a couple of times but never clarified)?  Why did she give up swimming?  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

As Allison grew and changed, she realized she did have good friends in Worcester.  She developed these into real, meaningful friendships during the course of the show.  Earlier on she felt she had no friends, no prospects, no money, no choices other than to kill Kevin to get enough money to have a life.  As she grew, she realized she could leave. While she was away, she became stronger.  When her new friend told her she did deserve good things, that was very important to her change in mindset. She was so used to be told she did not deserve anything good.  She had also proven she could do a job well; that is, she had significant value in the workplace, and that employers to whom she was neither related nor having a sexual relationship with would also value her.  

I don't see this as her changing her mind.  I see this as her growing and seeing new options available to her. While she was in Maine she gained strength, learned who she could be, and then realized she would like to continue to live that life in Worcester with her friends. She also gained the strength to ask for a divorce.  Beaten down, broken Allison was not strong enough to do that.  The Allison who had time to heal and grow could. 

[Spartan Girl]

16 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Unanswered questions: why did she almost die (which was referenced a couple of times but never clarified)?  Why did she give up swimming?  

Yeah, I wish they’d answered that. As it is, I’m going to guess it was because Allison let her mother get into her head that she wasn’t as good as she thought she was, which started her long habit of bailing out.

While I agree that Kevin undeservedly had a point about Allison flaking out on certain things, I agree with @PrincessPurrsALot analysis on deciding to come back as a mark of her growth. Although I really hope she can replicate the good thing she had going in her new life in Worcester, because yeah, her coming back at the same time as the fire looks pretty suspicious.

Then again, everybody in town knew that Kevin was a destructive idiot by this point, so who knows?

[luna1122again]

20 hours ago, qtpye said:

He looked like a garden gnome. 

Well, he did play Shrek on Broadway, so not a HUGE leap. 

I actually thought the beard worked to make him look more malevolent. Kevin/Eric has kind of a big baby face, which lent itself well to goofy idiot sitcom Kevin. But the beard obscured that, making him look older, more disheveled, and, I don't know...evil. 

It's so funny to see Eric Petersen in non-Kevin mode. No Worcester accent, of course, but also he's obviously smart, funny, arty, a theatre kid. I'd really like to see him in more things, in completely non-Kevin roles. So far, I only know him from this and an episode of Modern Family.