S01.E05: We Light the Way

[king of bullshit]

21 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

Pretty rich of Alicent to be so thoroughly vexed about discovering Rhaenyra hadn't been 100% honest with her...after she spent how long secretly seducing Rhaenyra's father. 🤔 #hypocrite 

Her anger may to be in relation to her father's dismissal as hand. In their parting exchange, he accuses her of making his deposition possible by siding with Rhaenyra and convincing Viserys of her innocence. He seems to believe the reason he was relieved of his position mainly came down to the king deciding his report on Rhaenyra had to have be false. 

Thru tears, she defends herself by saying she had simply believed her best friend was telling the truth and his(Otto's) informant must have been mistaken. 

[Meredith Quill]

2 minutes ago, king of bullshit said:

Her anger may to be in relation to her father's dismissal as hand. In their parting exchange, he accuses her of making his deposition possible by siding with Rhaenyra and convincing Viserys of her innocence. He seems to believe the reason he was relieved of his position mainly came down to the king deciding his report on Rhaenyra had to have be false. 

Thru tears, she defends herself by saying she had simply believed her best friend was telling the truth and his(Otto's) informant must have been mistaken. 

I'm sure that played a part yes. However, to me she was mostly portrayed as upset because Rhaenyra wasn't 100% upfront with her about what happened that night.

[FormerMod-a1]

All this talk of Criston and I'm here for the Rhaenyra/Daemon chemistry.  Dang, who new incest could sizzle so? :D :P Seriously though, they do have chemistry in spades.  Hope it continues with the new actress, too.  

[KittyQ]

21 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Criston is a fool. He has a one-nighter with Rhaenyra and thinks she'll give up the throne and all the power to run away with him? Him snitching to Alicent was such a bitch move.

Well, to be fair, he's taken a vow of chastity, so that ONS probably meant way more to him than it would to someone else. Still, he had to be aware that this is NOT something that would happen the way he imagines. 

I didn't take it so much as snitching to Alicent as believing that she already knew what had happened, and trying to get ahead of the punishment, if possible. Unfortunately, he didn't know that she was talking about Daemon and Rhaenyra, not Rhaenyra and Criston. Going off on "the other man" seemed kind of crazy. Way to blow everything up, Criston!

[Meredith Quill]

Just now, aquarian1 said:

All this talk of Criston and I'm here for the Rhaenyra/Daemon chemistry.  Dang, who new incest could sizzle so? :D :P Seriously though, they do have chemistry in spades.  Hope it continues with the new actress, too.  

Agreed. It's spicy af and I'm here for it, lol. #thingsyouneverthoughtyou'dsay

[Dac22]

27 minutes ago, ursula said:

This though. It’s, to put it delicately, threads too close to victim blaming.

Another thing is people seem to gloss over Rhaenyra's interaction with Daemon leading up to it. I'm not talking about getting it on in the brothel, but Daemon dropping the "we can do and take whatever we want" philosophy on her.

The show having Rhaenyra block the door and continue after he said no was deliberately showing her giving into that mentality. Yet people seem to miss that.

[FormerMod-a1]

1 minute ago, SilverStormm said:

Agreed. It's spicy af and I'm here for it, lol. #thingsyouneverthoughtyou'dsay

A big "hell yes!" to both your  thoughts here.  :) and #neverthoughtI'dberootingforincest

[Cristofle]

9 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

All this talk of Criston and I'm here for the Rhaenyra/Daemon chemistry.  Dang, who new incest could sizzle so? :D :P Seriously though, they do have chemistry in spades.  Hope it continues with the new actress, too.  

Matt and Milly unequivocally have oodles and oodles of chemistry. I said in another thread, I don't know why Joffrey zeroed in on Criston staring unhappily at Rhaenyra while she mostly ignored him, but DIDN'T notice that Daemon was basically drooling into his food and Rhaenyra was giving it right back to him. Daemon's stare was definitely more sexual, AND reciprocated. 

[LanceM]

The least Rhaenyra could have done is given Christen back his helmet.

Edited September 20, 2022 by LanceM

[Meredith Quill]

I wondered whilst watching why he had no helmet on same as his peers in the KG. I figured it was so we could see his facial expressions but your rationale is funnier! 

[ursula]

10 minutes ago, Dac22 said:

Daemon dropping the "we can do and take whatever we want" philosophy on her.

The show having Rhaenyra block the door and continue after he said no was deliberately showing her giving into that mentality.

This though. In the discussion around What Criston could/should have done to Stop her, the focus has shifted from Why she did it in the first place. Yes, she worked up by Daemon and the hot guy standing outside her door was assessable. But from their interactions, it’s clear that this is also a Power Trip for her. And that’s a really important detail because the primary driver for almost every sexual assault/coercion act is not really about lust (why not find someone who would be more willing then?), it’s about asserting dominance. Which, as you pointed out, is literally what she learnt that night.

[Dac22]

6 minutes ago, ursula said:

And that’s a really important detail because the primary driver for almost every sexual assault/coercion act is not really about lust (why not find someone who would be more willing then?), it’s about asserting dominance. Which, as you pointed out, is literally what she learnt that night.

Even Milly pointed out that Rhaenyra had the upper-hand with him and that turned her (Rhaenyra) on.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Dac22

[RobertDeSneero]

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Joffrey magically guessing who Rhaenyra's paramour was.

Nothing magical about it.  He was checking out Ser Criston, noticed the expression on his face (marvelously described as c--t-struck), and noticed who Criston was watching.

[paigow]

16 minutes ago, LanceM said:

The least Rhaenyra could have done is given Christen back his helmet.

Smashing Ser Douchebag with the helmet would have made the fight shorter...

[Lady Whistleup]

So I know Alicent isn't outwardly a sympathetic character, but I feel for her. She was incredibly young when she was used as a pawn by her father and married off to an old man she neither likes or loves. She obviously still craved some sort of relationship with Rhaenyra and didn't get it. She's still a child but has two kids, and has to have sex with a man whose skin is rotting off. She's very unhappy and her actions reflect that of an unhappy, isolated person. 

I also think Emily Carey has done an amazing job as Alicent, so maybe I feel for her because of Carey's acting. She's so expressive. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

7 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

Does she even like her kids?  She always seems so put off when holding the baby and ready to give her back to the nanny.

The youngest always seems to be crying when in Alicent's arms.  As of yet, this child has not been named in the show. Is it a girl? Because all everyone seems to be concerned with is young Aegon.

[Lassus]

5 hours ago, jane1978 said:

This is her third??? child in 5 years? I don´t think even the best mother of the world would be excited with yet another child crying endlessly in her arms. Yet she is still there personally taking care of him/her.

My mom had (her only) three kids over 3.5 years!  

[snickers]

10 hours ago, mjc570 said:

Did the show ever explain why Matt Daemon never consummated his marriage? I remember him saying something about his wife being hideous, but she really wasn't unattractive (not a young, blond relative, but still).

I wonder if he did it deliberately so there would be no heirs when he eventually killed her? 

Interesting theory, I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of his plan

I think he just said she was hideous to explain why he wouldn't "perform his duty"

I know there's been a lot of talk about him not being able to perform, but I think the show is just focusing on his "inner demons"

Clearly-

Spoiler

He can perform-by next week's previews it looks like he has kids with Leana Valeroyn and Matt Smith has complained in interviews that he did "too many sex scenes"

Now Ser Cristin....where to begin....there's a reason this guy is reminding me too much of Jon Snow and with that "confession" along with killing Joffrey I lost all respect for him...I think he should be punished but it doesn't look like that will be happening

I mean I get why he's hurt/angry, but Viserys is risking a lot by standing by this decision to make Rheanyra heir and to ask her to throw it all away and to run off with him is short sighted

[dramachick]

14 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Joffrey was an idiot. I have no idea why he approached Criston in such a manner. That said, Alicent is really going to have to pull strings that I wouldn't think she has the power to pull, even as Queen, to prevent Criston for being immediately executed. 

Lord Corlys ain't sad that Joffrey's gone, so it's doubtful he'll make a big fuss about it.

It's just one of those things that can happen at a wedding in Westeros. 

[ybrik]

Regarding R/C, I agree the major issue is the power dynamic. However, I don’t necessarily agree that the major issue between how some people interpret it is because of the gender swap of the situation. Honestly it may really come down to a matter of personal exposure/experience. Not sure how to word it but I have lived long enough and watched so much TV/movies where I have seen the same type of scene play out between with a man behaving like Rhaenyra and a woman being reluctant like Criston and it be considered passionate so for me I can see the problems some may have with it but if no one pointed out anything wrong with it I wouldn’t be disagreeing with it either.

Do find it funny that Otto keeps telling Alicent that Aegon most be ready to rule because Rhaenyra taken the throne would cause the realm to go to war. Shouldn’t he have been working to calm things down so that Rhaenyra taking the throne would be accepted since you know that was the King’s wishes. That would be something Hand should have been trying to assist with. 

I think Alicent is angry but I don’t see her ‘declaring war’ as her trying to protect her children or out of anger for the lies. I think the lies have made her realize that in following through with what her father wanted she has lost so much that right now the only thing she can get out of it is her son taking the throne. 

[yellowfred]

Look, I know a lot of other stuff happened, but I just have to say: it continues to be super weird to hear people refer to Rhaenyra and Laenor marrying as "finally uniting their families" when they are, in fact, second cousins. 

[MJ Frog]

Worst wedding day ev... nevermind.

Edited September 20, 2022 by MJ Frog

[Avabelle]

I assume that when we next pick up Cristian will be loyal to Alicent and hate Rhaenyra.

[cambridgeguy]

10 hours ago, magdalene said:

I can't be certain that Daemon was set on becoming a widower that day -would the outcome have been the same had she but spoken civilly to him?

Why would he be lurking in the Vale wearing his Sith cloak if he wasn't planning to kill her?  The only difference her words made was provoking him into bashing her skull in instead of just leaving her to die.

[Avabelle]

5 hours ago, ybrik said:

Do find it funny that Otto keeps telling Alicent that Aegon most be ready to rule because Rhaenyra taken the throne would cause the realm to go to war. Shouldn’t he have been working to calm things down so that Rhaenyra taking the throne would be accepted since you know that was the King’s wishes. That would be something Hand should have been trying to assist with. 

This! I don’t get the argument of Alicent feeling betrayed because daddy was unfairly dismissed. Otto didn’t have the best interests of the realm or the king. Rather than preventing war he was quite happily bringing them towards it if Rhaenyra got the crown. 

[Cristofle]

Viserys probably should have replaced Otto with Lyonel years ago, honestly. It was obvious as of the second episode that he trusts Lyonel more to be completely honest with him without nearly as much of an agenda. And already in this episode, Lyonel came off as a more loyal and efficient Hand. I think that probably goes back to Viserys being fairly weak and a people pleaser - he was clearly not unaware last week that Otto had been manipulating him. 

I can only presume that Alicent massively overestimated the influence her belief in Rhaenyra had in her father's fate. In reality, her believing Rhaenyra mattered 0% because Viserys didn't believe Rhaenyra for a second, lol. Rhaenyra did not need Alicent telling her that her father had been the one to have her followed - Rhaenyra is fairly astute about such things and Otto hasn't exactly made his plans subtle. And Viserys frankly didn't care what Alicent said or thought about Rhaenyra - he knew better. But Alicent may not understand that from her position, which IS a little sad. Even the little influence she seems to imagine herself to have is an illusion. 

[Meredith Quill]

7 hours ago, snickers said:

I know there's been a lot of talk about him not being able to perform, but I think the show is just focusing on his "inner demons"

[Pestilentia]

Quote

Lady Royce's skull wasn't crushed before Daemon picked up that rock.

You don't know that unless you personally picked up her head and looked at the back of her skull. 

We've seen Daemon let unfounded accusations against him stand before without defending himself, why not now?  The scene was intentionally played ambiguously, that's all.
I'd put $5 Gold Dragons on his being innocent.

And IMO it is pointless to discuss sexual harassment/assault in Westeros through the lens of 2022 eyes. If we can't watch and enjoy fiction within the framework of an intentionally crafted culture that is vastly different than our own then IMO we shouldn't be watching fantasy programming.
Incest is fine here. Powerful people use their power to have sex with powerless people.
That's how it is and I find clutching pearls over it to be quite amusing.

[Roseanna]

On 9/19/2022 at 5:14 AM, ybrik said:

Oh Alicent maybe we should be asking ourselves why the thought of our friend sleeping with other people seems to distress us to tears. Also I get being upset about lied to but before I really got up on my high horse I would remind you of all those months you went behind your friend’s back seeing her father. 

I think that's a modern way to explain motives.

Alicent's first duty was toward her father and her family, not her friend. Rhaenyra was very naive by not refusing to understand that his father who had only one heir had anyhow married somebody. As a stepmother Alicent did her duty by asking Rhaenyra if she had lain with her uncle (which could have ruined her) and she believed her and said so to her husband which partly caused the disgrace of her father (who also did her duty by telling about Rhaenyra to his king although he also acted in her daughter and grandson's interests).

Now, as Alicent's father explained her, if Rhaenyra becomes Queen, she will kill Aegon. As a mother it's entirely natural that Alicent chose her own son over Rhaenyra, especially as she had just discovered that her friend lied to her (yeah, not technically, but in fact).   

[Roseanna]

On 9/19/2022 at 5:14 AM, ybrik said:

Ser Christan basically gives up the whole truth without Alicent barely asking the question. Hell she didn’t even ask the question and started blabbing.

Well, obviously this isn't a society where lovers chose some way to evade the truth (cf. Lancelot and Guinevere) nor one where a gentleman would never have told with whom he had lain with.

Instead, it was made clear that ser Christian was utterly shamed that he had broken his vow *and* he was angry and bitter towards Rhaenyra who, in his mind, wanted to keep him as her "whore". 

[Cristofle]

15 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Now, as Alicent's father explained her, if Rhaenyra becomes Queen, she will kill Aegon. As a mother it's entirely natural that Alicent chose her own son over Rhaenyra, especially as she had just discovered that her friend lied to her (yeah, not technically, but in fact).   

It's possible this is what the show intended - it was just shown really, really poorly. Alicent has never been shown onscreen to be remotely maternal, and after her first scene with Otto, there wasn't much indication she thought of her son again. She was fixated on Rhaenyra's sex life - and she was not happy when Criston revealed what happened. She did not give off the vibe of someone who now had some important leverage she needed to protect her son. She seemed outraged that Rhaenyra had lied to her. This idea that Alicent was mostly motivated by protecting her son was simply not highlighted well onscreen in this episode. 

[Uncle JUICE]

12 hours ago, Cristofle said:

Matt and Milly unequivocally have oodles and oodles of chemistry. I said in another thread, I don't know why Joffrey zeroed in on Criston staring unhappily at Rhaenyra while she mostly ignored him, but DIDN'T notice that Daemon was basically drooling into his food and Rhaenyra was giving it right back to him. Daemon's stare was definitely more sexual, AND reciprocated. 

My guess: it has to do with the completely inappropriate and animated lover's spat had out in the open on the boat. Simply no way they weren't noticed, and you know the words of house Smallfolk of King's Landing are "We Flap Our Gums." Where there's smoke and all. 

[Roseanna]

On 9/19/2022 at 6:53 AM, LadyChaos said:

He's just not thinking clearly, even if she was inclined to run away with him...it would be a life on the run and always watching their back bc Aegon II, in order to secure his throne would have to find and kill her.

That. 

It seems very romantic to give up everything for love, and stories usually end there. But one can never know beforehand if the relationship will be worth it. Or, even it is but you had other goals in life, you don't regret that you give them up.

[Roseanna]

9 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

It's possible this is what the show intended - it was just shown really, really poorly. Alicent has never been shown onscreen to be remotely maternal, and after her first scene with Otto, there wasn't much indication she thought of her son again. She was fixated on Rhaenyra's sex life - and she was not happy when Criston revealed what happened. She did not give off the vibe of someone who now had some important leverage she needed to protect her son. She seemed outraged that Rhaenyra had lied to her. This idea that Alicent was mostly motivated by protecting her son was simply not highlighted well onscreen in this episode. 

Even in this episode it was shown how Alicent kept her second child in her arms and there was a similar scene before when he/she was crying. Normally, royal and noble ladies didn't tend babies themselves, it was the job of servants. 

In any case, the crux of the matter is not if Alicent is maternal by nature. Even if she weren't, her interests and those of her son are the same. It's a choice between being a discarded dowager queen (at best, she could be killed too) or a queen mother who can influence on her son the king at least when he is young.  

[Cristofle]

12 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Even in this episode it was shown how Alicent kept her second child in her arms and there was a similar scene before when he/she was crying. Normally, royal and noble ladies didn't tend babies themselves, it was the job of servants. 

In any case, the crux of the matter is not if Alicent is maternal by nature. Even if she weren't, her interests and those of her son are the same. It's a choice between being a discarded dowager queen (at best, she could be killed too) or a queen mother who can influence on her son the king at least when he is young.  

Alicent has been shown holding the babies - but she looks absolutely miserable and like she'd rather be anywhere else when she's doing it. 

The latter paragraph is true politically - but Alicent has yet to show any real skill in playing the game of thrones, so to speak. Again, if so, her main concern in the episode would have been that Rhaenyra's marriage to Laenor could strengthen her claim to the throne by uniting two powerful houses, and what Criston told her would have been either good news or at least ambivalent news. She was not behaving like a woman who was playing a political game and had political leverage. The actress wasn't showing that at all. She seemed personally outraged and offended that Rhaeyra had "lied" to her (well, misled her more than lied to her). For me, it can't just be that x motive is the smartest one practically and politically - Alicent needs to show onscreen that that's what she is invested in doing. The show did not handle that well if that was her purpose. 

[Lassus]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

The only difference her words made was provoking him into bashing her skull in instead of just leaving her to die.

Maybe, but someone would have come looking for her before she straight up starved.  (I agree the plan was to kill her from the outset.)

[Sakura12]

Otto needs Alicent to turn against Rhaenyra, that's the piece he was missing. He ignored their friendship and thought she would choose him over her friend. Now he claims Rhaenyra will kill her sons to keep the throne which she will want to now since Alicent is going to make a claim for her son. A war will break out regardless if either of them take the crown. One thing Otto didn't say is Alicent would have to have Rhaenyra killed if she wants Aegon to be King. 

[PurpleTentacle]

Did anybody get how Daemon got that horse to buck up and fall over? I mean horses are extremely dumb and scared of their own shadows, but that still seemed weird. Usually they won't just fall over.

So why do the Targs take that long and argues journey to the Velaryons? That really isn't a good look. Flex a little and let them come to you. Short of that, send your entourage ahead, let them set up and fly in on your dragons in style. That would radiate strength and not the weakness crawling there on a ship did.

Rhaenyra and Laenor are life goals. They seem to be really good friends. One could only hope to have such a great beard only a few decades ago, let alone in fantasy medieval times.

When on their return the page said that not the princess wanted to see Criston, but the queen, I thought "wow, the king died fast", thinking that he still meant Rhaenyra. Took a moment to realise that he meant Alicent.

Speaking of Alicent. She pulled a queen Liz II (RIP), who always communicated her feelings on a matter with her dresses and hats. Wonder if GRRM took inspiration from her for this scene. Here she is when Britain left the EU:

They really should have lobbed the kings arm off a long time ago. Now it's way too late.

Man that ending. Ser Criston is a bigger bitch for honour than even prince Zuko. Just somebody suggesting that they know that he stupped Rhaenyra, sending him into such a fit of rage that he killed that guy, in front of all the lords and ladies of the realm.

And nobody arrested him? He was just free to walk to the god's woods? Buh humbug!

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

Alicent's first duty was toward her father and her family

[Constantinople]

On 9/19/2022 at 6:48 AM, Pestilentia said:

I guess no one is even considering that Daemon did not use the rock?

22 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Lady Royce's skull wasn't crushed before Daemon picked up that rock.

1 hour ago, Pestilentia said:

You don't know that unless you personally picked up her head and looked at the back of her skull.

Lady Royce was speaking perfectly normally when she was on her back and there was not a drop of blood around her. Odd if the back of her skull was crushed in.

But I get that some people will defend Daemon no matter what.

Quote

We've seen Daemon let unfounded accusations against him stand before without defending himself, why not now.

Daemon was seen dry humping his niece in a brothel. It's hardly unfounded if people conclude that his little dragon found its way into Rhaenyra's dragon pit. Particularly since Daemon made it clear to Viserys that that's what he wanted people to conclude.

Quote

The scene was intentionally played ambiguously, that's all.

Syrio Forel: Watching is not seeing

[Sakura12]

I'm not sure how Criston can be walking around. No one arrested him for killing someone at the Royal Wedding? 

Lord Coryls probably isn't that upset that his son's lover is dead. But he still caused a panic in front of all the Lords and Ladies of the realm. 

[Cristofle]

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm not sure how Criston can be walking around. No one arrested him for killing someone at the Royal Wedding? 

Lord Coryls probably isn't that upset that his son's lover is dead. But he still caused a panic in front of all the Lords and Ladies of the realm. 

And I can't figure out what Joffrey was doing with such a seemingly prominent position in the march? Why is he living at the island? Does Corlys have him in some agreement made with House Lonmouth? If so, how he personally feels about the death of Joffrey (I agree, he won't miss him, to put it mildly) wouldn't matter. Corlys doesn't care about Criston. It would be more politically advantageous to immediately have him executed and then Corlys can go quietly cackle to himself about being rid of his son's lover, lol. Criston is common-born and Joffrey was not - I can't see that just flying here. Sure, we've seen Westerosi weddings go...well, real wrong, but there's no indication that Westerosi nobility EXPECTS the kind of violence at a wedding that the Dothraki do. 

[Uncle JUICE]

26 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm not sure how Criston can be walking around. No one arrested him for killing someone at the Royal Wedding? 

Lord Coryls probably isn't that upset that his son's lover is dead. But he still caused a panic in front of all the Lords and Ladies of the realm. 

This is the question I just can't find a way around. WHAT ON EARTH would have allowed him to simply get up and leave? What he did is a very, very serious crime even in Westeros. You can't kill a member of a noble retinue who's been granted guest rights by the crown itself at a royal event, period. Add to that his membership in the Kingsguard, and the brutality with which this beating was administered, and now he is very, very clearly a security problem: you can't be that unstable AND charged with the protection of royal blood. Where were the other members of the guard to intervene, too? What could have possibly been the explanation? THat this nobody from some salt soaked rock somewhere made a veiled threat to the princess? OK, fine, then arrest the guy and throw him in the balck cells, right? Beat him to death before dessert is served is NOT the way. There isn't a sensible explanation that he'd be allowed to go think about it in the godswood. He'd have been detained immediately and very likely beheaded like ten minutes later. 

[PurpleTentacle]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:11 AM, Constantinople said:

Even with Queen Alicent's support, I don't see how Ser Criston can beat the rap after killing one of the guests. Nothing plausible that is.

Especially now that Rhaenyra is the queen and Ser Criston killed her husbands one true love. (which sounds weird at first, but the bride and groom are good friends and made a pact)

It was already ridiculous that he could just stroll to the gods woods with nobody giving a crap.

On 9/19/2022 at 4:14 AM, ybrik said:

What part of keeping private do these people not understand? Ser Christan basically gives up the whole truth without Alicent barely asking the question. Hell she didn’t even ask the question and started blabbing. Should have known a character named Joffrey would be a dumb ass. Seriously why would you even press the issue with Cristin. 

Yeah that seemed very unnecessary. It's nice that you know their secret, but why press that with him. Let Laenor discuss that with Rhaenyra in a bit of a lighter setting. Maybe their wedding night. "So Ser Cristan... how is he? Maybe we could get him in here to get us going?"

But we can't discount that Laenor has a thing for dumb blondes and Joffrey really thought that was a good idea.

On 9/19/2022 at 4:14 AM, ybrik said:

Oh Alicent maybe we should be asking ourselves why the thought of our friend sleeping with other people seems to distress us to tears. Also I get being upset about lied to but before I really got up on my high horse I would remind you of all those months you went behind your friend’s back seeing her father. 

Was that behind her back? I was under the impression that that was pretty out in the open and that Alicent actually didn't put out before the wedding.

Still. Rhaenyra technically (mostly) didn't lie. Alicent just asked the wrong questions. She asked "did you fuck Daemon?" and Rhaenyra truthfully answered "Nope!"

On 9/19/2022 at 4:25 AM, Jodithgrace said:

So what is up with Vicerys’ arm? Has he got greyscale on top of his other assorted ailments? Watching him wrestle with whatever he was trying to eat at that feast was also stressing me out. I’m sure that bleeding him some more will clear that right up. 

It's "just" infected and by now all his organs are shutting down from the poison the bacteria spew.

I assume he has something like diabetes which is why his wounds aren't healing right.

Still the Maesters could probably have stoped it if they had lobbed off his finger sooner or then his hand sooner or then his arm sooner. Now it's much too late. The bacteria are always further along than you can see.

That's a bit of the irony. A lesser lord or even a commoner, with enough money to afford a maester, probably would have suvived this. But with the king they were too reluctant to do what needed to be done.

On 9/19/2022 at 4:41 AM, patty1h said:

So far, this show seems to be staying away from the magical/mystical aspects that GOT had, like the Man of Many Faces who taught Arya how to be an assassin. No Melisandre with her smoke babies and fire magic. No giants like Won Won or the Lord of Light, Ice King or 3-Eyed Raven, etc.

Even though there should still be a lot more magic in the world than in GoT-times since it's tied to the dragons and there are still a bunch of fully grown dragons around.

On 9/19/2022 at 4:42 AM, Constantinople said:

So Corlys thinks his son is just going through a phase? Laenor just needs to meet the right girl?

He thinks having sex with women is so amazing, how could anybody not like it? He doesn't understand that some people just don't like goose.

On 9/19/2022 at 4:49 AM, magdalene said:

Daemon demanding his inheritance from Rhea's cousin after the cousin had just accused him of murdering Rhea was so brazen. I just had to shake my head.

That was basically him saying "If you don't shut your mouth about your theories, I'm going to kick you out of your castle and you can sleep in the streets."

On 9/19/2022 at 4:58 AM, SeanC said:

He'd be shocked by that because it's not how Westerosi inheritance normally works. Rhea's heir should be whoever her closest blood relation is.

Are you sure about that one? I think Daemon would get control over the lands until he passes. He can't pass the lands on to his heirs, should he remarry, but until his death it's his. At least that's how I always understood it.

Daemon's death could still be 40 years off. That's a long time to live on the streets...

On 9/19/2022 at 5:14 AM, Stardancer Supreme said:

Ser Criston done f*cked up the thang! (TM Funky Dineva)  Rule number one in FWB situationships: Don't. Catch. Feelings.  Did he really think the Heir to the Iron Throne would just run off to Essos with him? 

I mean he did. But so did Rhaenyra and you'd think she'd be better at this than him. She should have set him straight right then and there on the boat "Look, I'm the mother fucking queen to be. I'm going to rule the seven kingdoms with my gay husband. We have an arrangement. You can get on board with that and have a good life with fun, consequence free sex, or if your honour doesn't permit it, jump into the ocean right this second! It's your choice. If you chose not to do the 'honorable thing' and kill yourself right now, I don't want to hear any more whining on the subject in the future!"

On 9/19/2022 at 5:14 AM, Stardancer Supreme said:

Damn, they made Laenor get married right there with Joffrey's blood still on the floor? That is cold. They could have at least gone to another room. I thought that Viserys was a goner after the "wedding" until I saw him in the previews for next week's episode. 

But then we wouldn't have gotten that awesome visual. I'll allow it under the "rule of cool".

[PurpleTentacle]

32 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

This is the question I just can't find a way around. WHAT ON EARTH would have allowed him to simply get up and leave? What he did is a very, very serious crime even in Westeros. You can't kill a member of a noble retinue who's been granted guest rights by the crown itself at a royal event,

It's just really bad writing and so unecessary at that.

Alicent could have just come to him while he was sitting in his cell.

I guess they wanted the visual with him in front of the heart tree, but here the rule of cool was not worth what they sacrificed for it, which is the internal concistency of the world.

[UnoAgain]

23 hours ago, Constantinople said:

I'm not saying Rhaenyra should be named Girlfriend of the Year or Ser Loudmouth wasn't smug, but I'm having a hard time feeling sympathetic for Ser Criston after he beat Joffrey's head in.

From Season 1 Episode 3:
Rhaenyra: Were you ever betrothed, Ser Criston?

Criston: I had an adventurous youth when my father served at Blackhaven, to be sure. But my station was never high enough for a formal betrothal. Before I spoke my vows as a knight of the Kings guard, I could've married a common-born girl had I wished.

Rhaenyra wasn't Criston's first romp in the hay and Criston was experienced enough to know that sex and marriage aren't the same. 

Nor was Criston's offer much better, if at all, than Rhaenyra's. Either way he's breaking his vows. And if Rhaenyra said yes, how would they get by in Essos. I wouldn't expect a stipend from her dad which means Criston works as a sellsword. That's not much of a life even if he doesn't get killed.

And if he didn't want to marry someone common born, why should expect Rhaenyra to?

Ppl are really playing advanced multi-level twister trying to support or mitigate the pure fuckery that Sir Cinnamon and Queen FakeFace got going on. 

[paigow]

59 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Add to that his membership in the Kingsguard, and the brutality with which this beating was administered, and now he is very, very clearly a security problem: you can't be that unstable AND charged with the protection of royal blood. Where were the other members of the guard to intervene, too? What could have possibly been the explanation?

The Kingsguard is run like the USMC at Gitmo... Corps, God, Country... they bailed out a comrade 

[UnoAgain]

23 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I think if that was their intention, the scene with Ser Criston where Alicent was still desperately trying to get an answer about whether Rhaenyra did the deed with Daemon (and then found out it was Criston) probably shouldn't have played out the way it did. She had that initial scene with her father, but she spent a lot of the rest of the episode seemingly enraged that Rhaenyra was no longer a virgin after all, rather than focusing on her son. They even could have had her distress fixated on the fact that Rhaenyra was about to marry Laenor (and therefore secure a much firmer hold on the throne) but it was all about Rhaenyra's sexytimes. 

I watched the fight scene again - if the intention was for Ser Criston to snap because he saw Daemon and Rhaenyra about to go at it on the dance floor, I wish they'd shown that, because they don't clearly show the beginning of the fight. The sequence goes - Joffrey says what he does to Criston, pats him on the back and leaves to return to Laenor's side (we see them together a second later), Daemon interrupts Rhaenyra and Harwin, they have their moment, Viserys looks horrified/furious, and then people start screaming. I'm not sure we even saw Criston react to Daemon and Rhaenyra. I can see that setting him off (as much as he's apparently very slow on the uptake if he didn't realize it before then) but we don't seem to see it. So why did Criston actually actively seek Joffrey back out when Joffrey had already walked away from him? If he wasn't set off by Daemon, was he really set off by Joffrey being kind of annoying and inappropriate? That seems...extreme.

Also, I missed in the first watching that Criston actually struck Laenor. Yeah, how is he not about to be executed? 

Daemon peaced out of that brawl so hard and so fast, lol. 

While on diff boards I've been met with resistance to this take.... I saw it as.. Laenor and Rhae were having a ball smiling.. Dancing... Loving each other in their own way... Then joffrey pops up prob 80/20 split on what he said being a heads-up that they're in the same boat.. But everyone is a winner and a strong warning not to fuck it up for everyone as he was glaring daggers at rhae and laenor all night... So they're all happy and he with his bs "honor" and shame and rage.. Decided to just torpedo it all

[Uncle JUICE]

40 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I guess they wanted the visual with him in front of the heart tree, but here the rule of cool was not worth what they sacrificed for it, which is the internal concistency of the world.

Not for nothing but they are using that heartwood tree set so much the face is rolling its eyes. It's such a tiny little yard it's in, and yet when Alicent goes out to it on her own, whoops, surprise, Limpalong Strong is somehow there unnoticed. I guess that tiny spot apparently just off the Red Keep is somehow a public park. 

12 minutes ago, paigow said:

The Kingsguard is run like the USMC at Gitmo... Corps, God, Country... they bailed out a comrade 

Seemed to me they left a comrade out to dry by not stopping him before he committed murder. Bailing him out in my book is stopping him and having the Lord Commander talk to him, get an explanation, then try to sell the king on sending him to the Wall and not to the King's Justice post haste!

I'm fascinated by how these little factions function, like what does the City Watch think of the Kingsguard, or how do the Maesters view the Faith...

[PurpleTentacle]

2 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

It's such a tiny little yard it's in, and yet when Alicent goes out to it on her own, whoops, surprise, Limpalong Strong is somehow there unnoticed.

Yeah the gods woods are really pityfull. I noticed that from the beginning. It's kinda weird to me that it's there at all, since the Targs aren't worshipping the old gods, as far as I know, but if it is there and used by the royal family that frquently, it should be a lot bigger.

Not putting some budget into a set that you are going to use for seasons to come is a really weird choice.