S24.E23: Power of Veto #8

[Pop Tart]

Air date: 8/31/2022

[Lamb18]

Just saw these two Bro guys on The Bachelorette on Monday. Will they show up next on The Challenge: USA?

[dizzyd]

Michael is so cool and collected as he correctly reads Kyle and his alliance. They have nothing to say in a 1/1 with him but can run their smug mouths in the DR. Kyle’s and Turner’s faces when Michael got picked were priceless. 

[Lamb18]

I like the slip 'n slide competition! 

Wow, Michael did well to fall and not spill any of his rose.

What would Brittany do without Michael to lean on?

[DEL901]

Look at the lanes.  Everyone else is all over the place, except Michael who has basically cleared a path that is now less slippery.  

[Lamb18]

Brittany's and Taylor's falls looked painful.

Michael is just graceful. I've been noticing his "cat-like" grace, which is appropriate to him.

Fall, Turner!

And congrats to Michael for winning POV!

[Lamb18]

I didn't see any Lays in that movie snack basket.

[Lamb18]

I feel so bummed for Taylor and Monte during this conversation with Michael and Brittany. Here they've been playing the game, just being themselves, maybe even having a break as far as having to think about race and being black, then Michael tells them about Kyle said, and it's like, "Oh crap, not here, too! Can't we just play a game?" The burden, which maybe was lifted a little bit, falls heavily back on their shoulders. 

[DEL901]

Voice over guy at the end was pretty subdued.   This is a weighty topic but it has to be addressed.  

[Callaphera]

BB announcer voice at the start of the episode: "...a dramatic series of events..."
Me:

And that storm is gonna last longer than ten twenty seconds!

Depressed, serious announcer voice at the end was a trip, though.

[econ07]

So Michael is using racism labeling to better his game?  That's pretty disgusting.

[Clark Kent]

26 minutes ago, econ07 said:

So Michael is using racism labeling to better his game?  That's pretty disgusting.

I agree that Michael's timing is problematic, but I think you're burying the lede here.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Clark Kent

[DEL901]

31 minutes ago, econ07 said:

So Michael is using racism labeling to better his game?  That's pretty disgusting.

Yes, but not as disgusting as the actual racism.  

[iMonrey]

That went pretty much as I expected - the show made Michael and Brittany look like the villains and poor Kyle the victim. Even though they did show Kyle saying those things there was much more focus on Michael and Brittany using this info to get Kyle on the block. Which - yeah isn't great either, but I know this show is desperate to shield Kyle and their precious showmance.

Whatever you think of Michael, you've got to give him props for his mad comp skills, especially the physical ones. He's kind of classically nerdy looking and kind of scrawny looking, he is not someone I would have pegged to be a physical threat, and that slip and slide is no joke. I was also impressed with his careful measuring of the two containers to make the correct choice of sticking with the large one.

Finally, I also appreciated Michael's shout-out in the DR to all the queer kids out there who might see themselves on TV. I thought that was nice and felt really sincere.

[Callaphera]

9 minutes ago, Clark Kent said:

I agree that Michael's timing is problematic, but I think you're burying the lede here.

Bless you for getting that right. Both the overall message and the bolded heh

[Lamima]

All 3 are gross and need to go so we can get on with BB. At this point, I hope anyone wins but one of those 3. 

[econ07]

34 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Yes, but not as disgusting as the actual racism.  

So I came to this season late in the game, so can someone tell me what Kyle said/did that was racist?  I'm not challenging you guys.  I sincerely want to know.

[Halting Hex]

Well, great.  Whom am I supposed to root for now, Alyssa?  Sigh.

Michael doesn't have the guts to flat-out accuse Kyle of racism, but he "doesn't like the optics" of Kyle's proposed alliance?  Riiiiight.  A bunch of white people aren't allowed to align without a Token Terrance, I suppose.  Gosh, I didn't know it was the 1970s all over again. (Possibly the 1960s, but quota tokenism was definitely a thing by the 1970s.)

Now if I can figure out why that alliance last year was allowed to get away with not including Caucasian Claire for production-mandated "diversity".  Did nobody think of the "optics"?  Huh.

I semi-forgive Taylor for her "Kyle's showing his true colors" line, because she only knows what Michael and Brittany are telling her. But still. And Monte may actually not be on board with this at all, but he's worried about going on the block. (But still.)

I'm ready to give Turner props tomorrow if he doesn't fall for Michael's line about "what Kyle said made me so disgusted that…I thought I'd sit on it until it could help me in the game."  But I'm still not liking him very much these days.

(And if he caves because he's worried about getting "dragged" on Twitter, he's just pathetic.  [Disclaimer: I've never been on Twitter or anything such as that, and I can't imagine gaf what random lunatics are screeching, but the idea makes me ill.])

Gee, it's funny how Kyle apparently never proposed this Caucasian Defense League alliance to Turner or Alyssa, isn't it?  Perhaps it's because he knew he had legitimate bonds with his Final Two Partner and his Showmance and only pitched it to Michael and Brittany because he couldn't think of any other way to build an alliance with them?  Maybe Kyle's not an offender against "optics", but he thought Michael might be?  Perhaps when Michael was making his requisite hosannas to the Historic Memory of The Cookout and Their Good Cause, he sounded a bit insincere to Kyle's ears?  Maybe Michael needs to watch the "soundbites" that he's putting out there?

(Or maybe not.  I'm just sick of the whole damn thing.  Including Clayton [Announcer Guy] putting on the Serious Soap-Opera Narrator voice for the outro.  Clayton, man…come on.  Sigh.)

[Hellohappylife]

I’ll probably get hated for opinion on this, Even tho I strongly dislike kyle, Michael & Britney are making this a way bigger issue then it is…. & horribly for their own personal gain . How is what Kyle said any different then what happens every single year in BB where the guys & girls form an alliance to get the opposite side kicked out? Is it really that shocking to think that people of the same race are going to want to stick together when in unfamiliar places, with strangers, for the first time? Happens in prison, happens in High school. Happens every single day.

Nothing Kyle said was “Racist” He never said he didn’t like black people, or anything hateful towards any groups of people. 

There’s a difference between Hate speech, & Speech that you hate. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Hellohappylife

[DEL901]

1 minute ago, Hellohappylife said:

I’ll probably get hated for opinion on this, Even tho I strongly dislike kyle, Michael & Britney are making this a way bigger issue then it is…. & horribly for their own personal gain . How is what Kyle said any different then what happens every single year in BB where the guys & girls form an alliance to get the opposite side kicked out? Is it really that shocking to think that people of the same race are going to want to stick together when in unfamiliar places, with strangers, for the first time? Happens in prison, happens in High school. 

Nothing Kyle said was “Racist” He never said he didn’t like black people, or anything hateful towards any groups of people. 

There’s a difference between Hate speech, & Speech that you hate. 

I just want to say that we are all only seeing what the editors want us to see, however, everything was shown on the feeds.   

[econ07]

1 minute ago, DEL901 said:

I just want to say that we are all only seeing what the editors want us to see, however, everything was shown on the feeds.   

Can you share what Kyle said that was racist?  I didn't see anything on the show other than he wanted to be wary of last year's pattern keeping him out of the game.  I didn't see last year at all or much of this year.

[North of Eden]

That was without a doubt some of the most reprehensible game play that has ever been aired on BIG BROTHER. Two people who are now perfectly safe stoke racial tension in the house needlessly I was nearly left speechless.  

It was so cringe worthy watching them go from person to person inflamming the house like that when they didn't have to. All they had to do is just let Turner pick whoever.

If Michael wins (and he's going to) he will be the SCUMMIEST winner ever to make it to finale night. I can't believe that just happened.

I was already sick that he won veto and knew he would rescue Brittany and end probably the only shot that will be taken at him between now and finale night and then he goes and does what he did....

And Monte... sitting there all is solidarity with Taylor when HE was more than happy to name her as someone to go on the block. 

And who says time travel isn't real because at the top of the hour I felt we had travelled back to week one with Taylor crying and nobody moving to comfort her until at long last Alyssa gave her a shoulder rub. Monte of course just stood there like he did back when he was drinking Paloma's Koolaid.

Lastly did the announcer swallow a bottle of quaeludes at the end? He was more downbeat than I've ever heard him.

Edited September 1, 2022 by North of Eden

[Callaphera]

20 minutes ago, econ07 said:

So I came to this season late in the game, so can someone tell me what Kyle said/did that was racist?  I'm not challenging you guys.  I sincerely want to know.

Unfortunately, while they've shown some of it on the show, most of it has been unaired and is from the feeds. I dropped a Twitter compilation of Kyle moments in the Episode v. Feeds thread. The end of the clip has a potential spoiler for tomorrow's episode (it's kind of a big one, too).

Edited September 1, 2022 by Callaphera

[econ07]

11 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Unfortunately, while they've shown some of it on the show, most of it has been unaired and is from the feeds. I dropped a Twitter compilation of Kyle moments

Ok, ya, that's not someone I would want to hang out with at all.  I hope they all go home - Kyle for his comments and Michael and Britany for only addressing it when strategically advantageous.

Thanks for sharing the clips.

Edited September 1, 2022 by econ07

[dizzyd]

What I don’t get is why Michael thought Kylegate needed to be played as a strategic move in his game. He was doing so well as Chief comp beast to get himself to the final but I think this is just going to blow his jury management. If he’s up against Alyssa at the end, she’ll have Kyle Turner Terrance Jasmine and Indy’s votes for sure and if Monte and Taylor are miffed about his use of something so sensitive to them for his personal gain, he’d lose their votes too. I don’t see him winning against Monte or Taylor either. 

[Joan of Argh]

19 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

What I don’t get is why Michael thought Kylegate needed to be played as a strategic move in his game. He was doing so well as Chief comp beast to get himself to the final but I think this is just going to blow his jury management. If he’s up against Alyssa at the end, she’ll have Kyle Turner Terrance Jasmine and Indy’s votes for sure and if Monte and Taylor are miffed about his use of something so sensitive to them for his personal gain, he’d lose their votes too. I don’t see him winning against Monte or Taylor either. 

I think he did it to try and save monte from being replacement nom which means either Taylor or monte will go home, he’s hoping to get Kyle put up and save them both 🤷‍♀️

[jsm1125]

What I’m not hearing a ton of about Kyle’s cookout concerns is that we’re supposed to believe that Jasmine and Indy, who could barely stand the sight of Taylor while in the house, were in an alliance with Taylor? No way Kyle is that unobservant that he didn’t see how Jasmine literally would turn around to not face Taylor whenever Taylor would walk in a room.

Edited September 1, 2022 by jsm1125

[Cotypubby]

54 minutes ago, jsm1125 said:

What I’m not hearing a ton of about Kyle’s cookout concerns is that we’re supposed to believe that Jasmine and Indy, who could barely stand the sight of Taylor while in the house, were in an alliance with Taylor? No way Kyle is that unobservant that he didn’t see how Jasmine literally would turn around to not face Taylor whenever Taylor would walk in a room.

Eh. This is a guy who doesn’t know that London is a city. I can definitely believe he’s just that unobservant.

[lilabennet]

If Alyssa or Indy had been paranoid about a Cookout 2.0, then that might have been almost understandable because they were clueless for most of the game (although still not really because then why were Ameerah and Nicole evicted?).  Kyle has been in the middle of all of the decisions since day 1.  He was in a dominant, multi-racial 7 person alliance and within that alliance he was in a 4 person multi-racial alliance.  He knew better than anyone else in the house that there absolutely was not a Cookout 2.0 this year.  The only reason why he would be so paranoid about it is racism.

Edited September 1, 2022 by lilabennet
tenses

[pennben]

It hurt to see Monte & Taylor’s pain. I do think Michael & Brittany times this strategically, I think they would have gone with the alliance but for the optics (and it may have taken DR to get them to see optics).  The worst thing was seeing the pain in those two that ultimately Kyle caused. Although, M & B we’re right in assessment, just gross on the handling of this matter over not considering the pain. It was calculating in a way I didn’t expect that they really didn’t consider the pain. Kyle though, we’ll chat tomorrow. .  

Edited September 1, 2022 by pennben

[MsMalin]

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Whatever you think of Michael, you've got to give him props for his mad comp skills, especially the physical ones. He's kind of classically nerdy looking and kind of scrawny looking, he is not someone I would have pegged to be a physical threat, and that slip and slide is no joke. I was also impressed with his careful measuring of the two containers to make the correct choice of sticking with the large one.

Exactly what I was thinking. Every single competition he excels. He really uses his brains to think out how to win.

Edited September 1, 2022 by MsMalin

[Blindfox]

I have lots of thoughts about this episode, and none of them are good. I really hate that apparently I am forced to follow the live feeds or at least the live feed thread to really know what’s going on in the house. What Kyle proposed was despicable: having an all-white alliance in order to kick out people of color. I didn’t like it when the Cookout did it, but at least I understood their reasoning and understood why it was important it was for them. 

Also despicable, although less so: Michael and Britany sitting on this information until it benefited them personally to reveal it. Wow. I hope that’s not lost on others in the house, and I don’t think it will be. Michael may have just cost himself the whole game. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see him go up next and for entirely different reasons than being a competition threat.

Also despicable, but barely so compared to the rest of the drama: Joseph throwing his closest ally, Taylor, under the bus on his way out the door. Good riddance, Joseph.

[iMonrey]

I'm just very apprehensive about how the show will address this, especially after the this episode spent more time villainizing Michael and Brittany than Kyle. The show is overly invested in the Kyle and Alyssa showmance, it's clear they are always hoping for their next Jeff and Jordan. We're subjected to some schmoopy talk between the two of them every episode. "Oh, look, they don't know where countries are. They're dumb, isn't that adorable? Just like Jeff and Jordan!" They were probably already pitching the couple to The Amazing Race. 

I have every expectation tonight's show will be Kyle's apology tour, and should he be nominated and evicted, I'm certain Julie will throw him softball questions and give him every opportunity to cover his ass.

[econ07]

6 minutes ago, Blindfox said:

I have lots of thoughts about this episode, and none of them are good. I really hate that apparently I am forced to follow the live feeds or at least the live feed thread to really know what’s going on in the house. What Kyle proposed was despicable: having an all-white alliance in order to kick out people of color. I didn’t like it when the Cookout did it, but at least I understood their reasoning and understood why it was important it was for them. 

Also despicable, although less so: Michael and Britany sitting on this information until it benefited them personally to reveal it. Wow. I hope that’s not lost on others in the house, and I don’t think it will be. Michael may have just cost himself the whole game. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see him go up next and for entirely different reasons than being a competition threat.

Also despicable, but barely so compared to the rest of the drama: Joseph throwing his closest ally, Taylor, under the bus on his way out the door. Good riddance, Joseph.

All extremely well said!

[watch2much]

yes for all those who say racism doesn't exist, they should look at the Taylor and Monte when they heard what Kyle said.  it was like a 1000 lb. weight was put on them.  I had a supervisor who used to describe being followed around Walmart whenever she and her boyfriend shopped there.  she was probably making more than the manager at the time.  I can't imagine experiencing that.

that being said, remember where Kyle grew up.  here is the demographic of Utah:  

White: 85.14%

Other race: 5.10%

Two or more races: 4.24%

Asian: 2.32%

Black or African American: 1.21%

Native American: 1.05%

Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.93%

I'm not absolving him, just cutting him a bit of a break for lack of exposure having lived such a sheltered life.  in fact, his naivete in putting Middle Easter Joseph and Brazilian Indy in a Cook Out kind of alliance shows.  I think he's more ignorant than outright racist.

Edited September 1, 2022 by watch2much
add

[Callaphera]

24 minutes ago, watch2much said:

I'm not absolving [Kyle], just cutting him a bit of a break for lack of exposure having lived such a sheltered life. 

Counterpoint: Kyle is 29 years old, is verified on Twitter, has a healthy TikTok following where he makes money, and lived through the BLM movement with the rest of the country/world.

[DEL901]

23 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Counterpoint: Kyle is 29 years old, is verified on Twitter, has a healthy TikTok following where he makes money, and lived through the BLM movement with the rest of the country/world.

I agree with all your post except one thing.  I looked it up.  1 million Twitter views is worth $50 max.  Kyle has just over half a million followers.  He isn’t making much money, hence the stint on BB to increase the base.  

[Callaphera]

6 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I agree with all your post except one thing.  I looked it up.  1 million Twitter views is worth $50 max.  Kyle has just over half a million followers.  He isn’t making much money, hence the stint on BB to increase the base.  

There was a point where Kyle claimed he made a decent amount on his social media but it could have been bullshit - I can't find the quote now, of course. But I'll concede that part of it - he makes at least enough for an extra value meal with a Mormon approved diet Coke at McDonalds every month.

[DEL901]

31 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

There was a point where Kyle claimed he made a decent amount on his social media but it could have been bullshit - I can't find the quote now, of course. But I'll concede that part of it - he makes at least enough for an extra value meal with a Mormon approved diet Coke at McDonalds every month.

I guess when you live in mom’s basement, cash for the  occasional Extra Value Meal is all you need.  

Edited September 1, 2022 by DEL901

[OldWiseOne]

3 hours ago, Blindfox said:

Also despicable, although less so: Michael and Britany sitting on this information until it benefited them personally to reveal it. Wow. I hope that’s not lost on others in the house, and I don’t think it will be. Michael may have just cost himself the whole game. I wouldn’t be too surprised to see him go up next and for entirely different reasons than being a competition threat.

It didn't just benefit Michael and Brittany. They brought it out at this time in order to save both Monte and Taylor. I assume that's why they talked to Monte and Taylor first before going to Turner. Michael and Brittany were already safe. They wanted to save their allies, and make sure their allies were ok with them using this information as the tool to save them.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Counterpoint: Kyle is 29 years old, is verified on Twitter, has a healthy TikTok following where he makes money, and lived through the BLM movement with the rest of the country/world.

And, you know, he has a TV. 

Quote

Also despicable, although less so: Michael and Britany sitting on this information until it benefited them personally to reveal it. 

While I agree this isn't a good look for Michael or Britany, I feel like focusing on that is giving Kyle a pass. Certainly the show itself would much rather tell the Michael and Britany story than the Kyle story. They have shown a vested interested in protecting Kyle and they have a long history of ignoring and covering up racism. 

[Nashville]

35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

While I agree this isn't a good look for Michael or Britany, I feel like focusing on that is giving Kyle a pass. Certainly the show itself would much rather tell the Michael and Britany story than the Kyle story. They have shown a vested interested in protecting Kyle and they have a long history of ignoring and covering up racism. 

Yeah; that’s a little too much like when a whistleblower leaks documented evidence of rampant corruption and coverups in a legislative body - but instead of dealing with the actual CRIMES involved, the legislators jump on their high horse and start railing about how the whistleblower is the real problem….  🙄

[Jobiska]

Even if Kyle is sincere about wanting to learn and grow, he has so far to go.  I can't believe he said it would make him feel better if Monte punched him in the face.  Monte of course rejected that but there sure is a lot of potential race-relations stuff in that sentence alone.  Monte and Terrence and especially Taylor are super generous to try to help him understand things, but I hope someone out there tells him it's not the job of POC to educate him or do the emotional labor of working with his emotions.  If they want to, great, but he needs to know what a generous and absolutely not required gift it is.  

I kept being distracted by the giant boots with laces in different colors, and the prominently displayed PopTarts, in any scene with Turner in the HOH room.  Good thing my husband had stopped by the little local supermarket before and not after the show, or we'd have PopTarts in addition to English muffins and OJ and stuff in our kitchen now.

[watch2much]

On 9/1/2022 at 1:07 PM, Callaphera said:

Counterpoint: Kyle is 29 years old, is verified on Twitter, has a healthy TikTok following where he makes money, and lived through the BLM movement with the rest of the country/world.

but he's not good in geometry.  generally speaking you have to have some worldly curiosity to seek information out.  Kyle does not.