S02.E04: Here's Looking at You

[Paws]

I think uma was the murderer. She was jealous of bunny and Nina becoming so close and probably felt she should have become board prez after bunny. Remember the last murder was all about jealousy as well. Also She lived across from Charles  and clearly hated him, she gives the finger in the very first scene of the series.

[callie lee 29]

The fact that this thread has referenced (with video) both Vanilla Ice and Public Enemy is fucking awesome. 

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, Paws said:

I think uma was the murderer. She was jealous of bunny and Nina becoming so close and probably felt she should have become board prez after bunny.

I don't even think Uma is on the Board, she wasn't at the Board Meeting, so it is unlikely they would choose someone who isn't a Board Member to be President.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I don't even think Uma is on the Board, she wasn't at the Board Meeting, so it is unlikely they would choose someone who isn't a Board Member to be President.

Maybe Bunny kept Uma off the board for that reason? Uma does mention "I have a key" which in a murder mystery is either a clue or a red herring.

[DoctorAtomic]

16 hours ago, sjankis630 said:

Throughout the history of rap music a lot of non rap music has been sampled. They take a small portion of say a drum break from an older song - in this case James Brown's Funky Drummer - and insert it into their own rap song. Usually they did this without paying and sometimes sneakily.

There is no hip hop artist in the 80s that didn't sample Funky Drummer.
To be fair, there wasn't any laws about sampling and paying royalties back then because it was so unprecedented. In fact, PE had a song about it on that Nation of Millions record for sampling. 

I thought it was just hilarious that Mabel was freaking about how she knew the song without ever hearing it before, and Charles was so nonchalant about how every rapper has sampled it because I thought of Funky Drummer immediately. Mabel's reaction of relief that she wasn't crazy was just as good. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Vanilla Ice is sampling Under Pressure by Queen & David Bowie...

Oh, OK - but there wasn't anything in Charles' song that actually appeared in a real rap, right? Mabel just thought it sounded familiar based on some fake rap made up for the show?

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oh, OK - but there wasn't anything in Charles' song that actually appeared in a real rap, right? Mabel just thought it sounded familiar based on some fake rap made up for the show?

In the fictional world of Only Murders In The Building:  
A clip from the recording of Charles’ song ——the “Pita patta” part—— was widely used by rap artists, for which Charles collects $200K per year in royalties.

Mabel is familiar with some of those rap songs, and recognizes the “Pitta patta” from those rap songs when she hears Charles and Lucy singing it.

IRL, I do not have any idea whether Steve Martin’s recorded music has been sampled by rap artists.

Edited July 14, 2022 by shapeshifter

[chaifan]

15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

IRL, I do not have any idea whether Steve Martin’s recorded music has been sampled by rap artists.

But someone just has to now!  Can we petition Lizzo to sample King Tut?  That would be amazing! 

[DoctorAtomic]

Brilliant. She could do the flute solo in place of the sax at the end. 

EPMD did a song called The Steve Martin, but it's about a dance based on the 70s 'wild' Steve Martin. 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Bunny kept Uma off the board for that reason? Uma does mention "I have a key" which in a murder mystery is either a clue or a red herring.

No, I think it was that Uma was a good and trusted friend. Bunny gave her a key in case of an emergency (medical or housing), most elderly people living alone would do something like this.  I wonder if this is why Uma knew to give Mrs. Gambolini to Olivier, maybe it wasn't in a formal will, just stuff that Bunny wrote down that she was supposed to do, due to her believing she was heading to Florida soon.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I wonder if this is why Uma knew to give Mrs. Gambolini to Olivier, maybe it wasn't in a formal will, just stuff that Bunny wrote down that she was supposed to do, due to her believing she was heading to Florida soon.

Heh, I wonder if Uma had promised to look after Mrs. Gambolini but never really intended to do so, and then when Bunny died, she dumped the parrot with Oliver out of some sort of spite--
ETA: Out of Uma's spite, not Bunny's.

Edited July 14, 2022 by shapeshifter

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

But someone just has to now!  Can we petition Lizzo to sample King Tut?  That would be amazing! 

Banjo riff!

58 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh, I wonder if Uma had promised to look after Mrs. Gambolini but never really intended to do so, and then when Bunny died, she dumped the parrot with Oliver out of some sort of spite.

And knowing Bunny would like getting to stick it to Oliver.

[dovegrey]

28 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And knowing Bunny would like getting to stick it to Oliver.

I've seen this sentiment a lot (I think...) about Bunny and Oliver having bad blood, so this is more of a general comment that riffs on your post. :) I don't remember a lot of real animosity between Bunny and Oliver in season 1. Their relationship soured near the end over the podcast and her sham of an HOA vote to evict the trio*, but, at the beginning of season 1, Oliver referred to her as a friend, and Bunny agreed that they were friends and even said their friendship is why she hadn't evicted him despite months of unpaid rent/bills. That was only around two months ago in show-time. I think both characters just happen to be the type to show affection through contempt, just like how Oliver constantly insults Charles. It's the forgotten love language. 😂

About the bird - I think it's a complete demonstration of confidence in someone's character to entrust your pet's continued life and well-being to that person in the event of your death. I thought Bunny seemed affectionate toward and dedicated to Mrs. Gambolini in 2x3, and I'd be hard pressed to believe she'd spitefully give Mrs. Gambolini to someone she didn't like or didn't believe would take good care of her. If Bunny actually willed Mrs. Gambolini to Oliver, I think that speaks volumes about their once-friendship. And, so far, Oliver has dutifully kept the bird.

*I wonder if there was something more to the evictions than Bunny being a spiteful jerk. Was Bunny under pressure from someone to shut the podcast down? And is that possibly why she was killed so soon after the season 1 case was solved? Was someone unhappy that Bunny was letting the trio stick around...and now the trio is being framed to get rid of them again...

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

About the bird - I think it's a complete demonstration of confidence in someone's character to entrust your pet's continued life and well-being to that person in the event of your death. I thought Bunny seemed affectionate toward and dedicated to Mrs. Gambolini in 2x3, and I'd be hard pressed to believe she'd spitefully give Mrs. Gambolini to someone she didn't like or didn't believe would take good care of her. If Bunny actually willed Mrs. Gambolini to Oliver, I think that speaks volumes about their once-friendship. And, so far, Oliver has dutifully kept the bird.

Those things actually go together to me. Because giving someone a pet without asking them is unacceptable even if they're your friend. But I agree Bunny would never give her bird to someone she didn't trust to take of her. So the only real way for her to be annoying Oliver would be if she trusted him with Mrs. Gambolini. And it's a pretty fitting revenge for somebody who didn't pay his fees.

[sjankis630]

Or of course Bunny could have secretly hidden a message in the bird's sayings to later give out a clue to who killed her.

I can't remember why Bunny was coming by the Trio's apartment with the champagne. Maybe she was going to give them a mystery to help her find out whatever was the backstory of whoever she was sitting with at the diner.

[dovegrey]

15 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Those things actually go together to me. Because giving someone a pet without asking them is unacceptable even if they're your friend. But I agree Bunny would never give her bird to someone she didn't trust to take of her. So the only real way for her to be annoying Oliver would be if she trusted him with Mrs. Gambolini. And it's a pretty fitting revenge for somebody who didn't pay his fees.

This gave me a thought that, back in the day, Bunny asked if Oliver would take Mrs. Gambolini, he said "yeah, sure, I've got a production to plan"...and thought the bird died (what he said in 2x1) and/or completely forgot he said "yes." Total fanfiction but knowing Oliver... Also, I'm very against the idea of using a live animal as revenge. So I'm going with it, or Uma is a lying liar who lies. 🙂

[cardigirl]

40 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

*I wonder if there was something more to the evictions than Bunny being a spiteful jerk. Was Bunny under pressure from someone to shut the podcast down? And is that possibly why she was killed so soon after the season 1 case was solved? Was someone unhappy that Bunny was letting the trio stick around...and now the trio is being framed to get rid of them again...

There is still the loose end of why Tim's phone was not sent to be examined, and why the detective's requests for drug testing on Tim's body were not sent. I don't believe it's because she's incompetent, but rather, someone was messing with the investigation, to prevent something from being discovered. Does Jan have friends in the police department?

[ajsnaves]

So while listening to the companion podcast I had a thought. Assume Lucy was near Charles’ apartment on 14. She hears screaming and we see the man in hidden passages. What if the woman screaming was Nina? And the man was Howard? He walked back through Charles’ apartment, and took the elevator down to 12 to then kill Bunny.  Or maybe He started in Bunny’s and moved up to 14.   Maybe he walked into Nina’s apartment by mistake, thinking it was Charles’. 

[dovegrey]

26 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

There is still the loose end of why Tim's phone was not sent to be examined, and why the detective's requests for drug testing on Tim's body were not sent. I don't believe it's because she's incompetent, but rather, someone was messing with the investigation, to prevent something from being discovered. Does Jan have friends in the police department?

That always confused me. Detective Williams automatically and emphatically closed Tim's death as a suicide that night, but was then surprised when resources weren't devoted to further investigating Tim's death. She apparently didn't even think about the case again, until her wife listened to the podcast and Williams realized mistakes had possibly been made. I'm not anywhere near law enforcement, but is it typical to continue investigating a case that has officially been "solved" without criminal charges? I know the show portrayed it as a conspiracy, but was it really?

That said, I will be very impressed if the show actually and convincingly ties a lot season 1's loose ends together into the season 2 mystery or incidental mysteries.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, dovegrey said:

About the bird - I think it's a complete demonstration of confidence in someone's character to entrust your pet's continued life and well-being to that person in the event of your death. I thought Bunny seemed affectionate toward and dedicated to Mrs. Gambolini in 2x3, and I'd be hard pressed to believe she'd spitefully give Mrs. Gambolini to someone she didn't like or didn't believe would take good care of her.

I edited my post above to make it clear that I was wondering if Uma spitefully left Mrs. Gambolini with Oliver after telling Bunny she would take care of the parrot herself -- not Bunny leaving the parrot with anyone out of spite.

[ajsnaves]

1 hour ago, dovegrey said:

That always confused me. Detective Williams automatically and emphatically closed Tim's death as a suicide that night, but was then surprised when resources weren't devoted to further investigating Tim's death. She apparently didn't even think about the case again, until her wife listened to the podcast and Williams realized mistakes had possibly been made. I'm not anywhere near law enforcement, but is it typical to continue investigating a case that has officially been "solved" without criminal charges? I know the show portrayed it as a conspiracy, but was it really?

That said, I will be very impressed if the show actually and convincingly ties a lot season 1's loose ends together into the season 2 mystery or incidental mysteries.

These things cost money.  And they take time too.  They're not gonna spend money when it is a "clear suicide."  This did not surprise me at all.

[ajsnaves]

1 hour ago, ajsnaves said:

So while listening to the companion podcast I had a thought. Assume Lucy was near Charles’ apartment on 14. She hears screaming and we see the man in hidden passages. What if the woman screaming was Nina? And the man was Howard? He walked back through Charles’ apartment, and took the elevator down to 12 to then kill Bunny.  Or maybe He started in Bunny’s and moved up to 14.   Maybe he walked into Nina’s apartment by mistake, thinking it was Charles’. 

Adding an additional thought.  It seemed like the they didn't know which direction to go.  They seemed unsure of themselves.

[Kiddvideo]

4 minutes ago, ajsnaves said:

Adding an additional thought.  It seemed like the they didn't know which direction to go.  They seemed unsure of themselves.

Could be! I was thinking Lucy made a noise (that I didn’t hear) and the person was looking for the source but decided to am-scray. 

[Lugal]

On 7/13/2022 at 12:03 PM, dovegrey said:

I'm much older than Mabel and much much older than Lucy and didn't think anything Lucy said was hard to understand or put together. I don't see how Mabel would be so lost, unless she was just completely creeped out by everything Lucy was saying about Mabel's life being dissected, being diagnosed, and needing benzos.

I think that's what got to her.  Hearing that the timeline of your life has been cross-referenced with the DSM-5 by a bunch of strangers on the internet would be disturbing to anyone.

And count me in on the love Lucy fanclub (yes, I said it).  That scene when they hug, you could just see it in their faces (kudos to Zoe).  Like she said, of her five quasi-dads, he was the best one.

[Whimsy]

I like seeing all the Lucy love because I had JUST finished the show Boo, Bitch! on Netflix before watching this episode and the actress that plays Lucy (Zoe Colletti) is one of the leads in that show and she had amazing chemistry with her co-star there too.  I think she's a great young actress.

I also loved the conversation between Mabel and Lucy.  So funny, lol.  I do think they played up the lingo, etc, to really make us all feel old, heh, but I also got most of the references without issue.  Although, I haven't really spent much time talking to anyone in that age bracket recently, so maybe they do talk like that. 

As for who killed Bunny, I'm not really trying to solve the murder.  I'm just enjoying the show as it unfolds.  I really appreciate the way this show can be funny and touching within moments and it all feels genuine.  I'm here for the ride!

[LuvMyShows]

On 7/12/2022 at 12:58 AM, grandmabegum said:

I do not understand why that song would go to number one in Germany, but I won't complain.

I didn't think it went to number one.  I thought he said it went to an eighty-something number and would have gone higher but the Berlin Wall fell.

On 7/13/2022 at 3:03 PM, dovegrey said:

I'm much older than Mabel and much much older than Lucy and didn't think anything Lucy said was hard to understand or put together. I don't see how Mabel would be so lost, unless she was just completely creeped out by everything Lucy was saying about Mabel's life being dissected, being diagnosed, and needing benzos. That whole exchange fell really flat for me.

15 hours ago, Lugal said:

I think that's what got to her.  Hearing that the timeline of your life has been cross-referenced with the DSM-5 by a bunch of strangers on the internet would be disturbing to anyone.

I didn't get the sense that Mabel couldn't understand what Lucy was saying, but that she didn't have familiarity with what Lucy was saying.  I too could piece together the words/concepts, but that doesn't mean I really got it!  BTW, I seriously doubt the average 15-30 year old, or heck, even older people, have any idea what the DSM-5 is.

[LuvMyShows]

I have decided to put together a running list of unanswered questions, and keep track of when/if they get answered.  Will gladly accept any additions/modifications.  Not sure if people will see it, since it's been several days since the episode, but I'll give it a try.

Maybe I just missed this explanation, so I won't add it to my list (yet), but why was there a bloody knife if Bunny was stabbed by a knitting needle?

Answered:

• Why was Bunny wearing the podcast hoodie? - because the gang gave it to her as a consolation gift when they didn't invite her in, when she brought champagne up to thank them for solving the mystery
• How did the painting, and now knife, get put into Charles' apartment? - someone used the secret passage from his bathroom that Lucy showed them

Unanswered:

• What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "savage" or "Savage"?
• What was the significance of Bunny's dying word "14"?
• Who killed Bunny?
• Is the murderer the same as the person in the black boots who got off the elevator and came to her apartment?
• Why was the painting taken from Bunny's apartment?
• Was the painting in Bunny's apartment already a forgery or did the thief replace it with a forgery?  
• What is the full story with Charles' father?
• Was the painting put in Charles' apartment solely as an attempt to frame him for Bunny's murder?
• Was the bloody knife put in Charles' apartment solely as an attempt to frame him for Bunny's murder?
• Who sent the "get out of the building" text?
• Who did Bunny have lunch with?
• Who did Lucy see in the secret passageway with a mask and wearing booties?
• What was Nina going to put on the roof?
• How did Howard get the black eye?
• How did the crowd find out about Bunny's murder so quickly to be there outside the Arconia when our gang was taken out in handcuffs almost immediately after the police arrived?

Leftover unanswered from Season 1:

• Why was Tim's phone not sent to be examined?
• Why was the detective's request on drug testing Tim's body turned down?
• Who put the note on Jan's door (or was it Jan herself)?

...were all questions answered about Evelyn's death and Winnie's poisoning, or should something about those be added?

[Lugal]

25 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

BTW, I seriously doubt the average 15-30 year old, or heck, even older people, have any idea what the DSM-5 is.

The DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, which is kind of the bible for psychiatry.  With a lot of kids being overdiagnosed for ADHD I would bet that a lot of 15-30 years know what the DSM is.  And with what Mabel went through growing up, I'm sure her mother took her to therapists.

[dovegrey]

22 minutes ago, Lugal said:

The DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, which is kind of the bible for psychiatry.  With a lot of kids being overdiagnosed for ADHD I would bet that a lot of 15-30 years know what the DSM is.  And with what Mabel went through growing up, I'm sure her mother took her to therapists.

It's also the proverbial bible for various types of psychologists, licensed clinical social workers, mental health counselors, and basically anyone in a mental health profession (even Bachelor's-level) who works with diagnoses to determine medical codes, work with billing, and either determine or help carry out treatment planning. AP Psychology students learn about it in high school, as do many undergrads who take the equivalent of Psych 101 and/or basic human development courses. It's not obscure by any means. But since the DSM is my professional bible, I'll admit that might have made Lucy's Bloody Mabel tirade easier to understand.

The more I think about it, the more I think Mabel wasn't lost/freaked out because of some huge age difference but because this strange teenager she's never met is talking a million miles a minute about inappropriate and boundary-crossing topics. I ended up liking Lucy but that introduction wasn't great for her.

[sjankis630]

44 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

How did Howard get the black eye?

We already heard Howard's explanation that it was Nina who gave him the black eye. Do you want to know why she hit him? We don't know that yet. Although Howard would say it is because she is a bitch.

[paigow]

40 minutes ago, Lugal said:

The DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition, which is kind of the bible for psychiatry. 

Then one of these guys did it...

[shapeshifter]

57 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I have decided to put together a running list of unanswered questions, and keep track of when/if they get answered.  Will gladly accept any additions/modifications.  Not sure if people will see it, since it's been several days since the episode, but I'll give it a try.

This is great, @LuvMyShows. 
It would also be a nice addition (IMO) to the Only Speculation Without Spoilers In the Thread thread, here: 
forums.primetimer.com/topic/122016-only-speculation-without-spoilers-in-the-thread/page/3

 

57 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Was the bloody knife put in Charles' apartment solely as an attempt to frame him for Bunny's murder?

Since it was Oliver's knife, do you want to modify this question to include Oliver, maybe with sub-bullets (can be done on laptop)?
Something like:

• Who put Oliver's bloody knife in Charles' apartment?
  •  Did someone put blood on Oliver's knife to frame him?
  • Is the blood on the knife human or animal, and if animal, what kind?
  • Who put the knife in Charles' apartment?
  • Was the bloody knife put in Charles apartment to frame Charles for Bunny's murder?
  • Is the knife the murder weapon?  

Hopefully you can make this shorter, or just leave it the way you have it for now.

Edited July 15, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Maybe I just missed this explanation, so I won't add it to my list (yet), but why was there a bloody knife if Bunny was stabbed by a knitting needle?

Bunny was stabbed multiple times with a knife first and the knitting needle was an afterthought.

[LuvMyShows]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Since it was Oliver's knife, do you want to modify this question to include Oliver, maybe with sub-bullets (can be done on laptop)?
Something like:

• Who put Oliver's bloody knife in Charles' apartment?
  •  Did someone put blood on Oliver's knife to frame him?
  • Is the blood on the knife human or animal, and if animal, what kind?
  • Who put the knife in Charles' apartment?
  • Was the bloody knife put in Charles apartment to frame Charles for Bunny's murder?
  • Is the knife the murder weapon?  

14 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Bunny was stabbed multiple times with a knife first and the knitting needle was an afterthought.

OK, still unclear about the knife, but definitely need to add it to the list.  So apparently it was just a regular knife of Oliver's, and it somehow ended up bloodied in Charles' apartment?  Have we ever known anything at all about the actual knife that used in the murder?  Wouldn't Mabel have seen it?

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

This is great, @LuvMyShows. 
It would also be a nice addition (IMO) to the Only Speculation Without Spoilers In the Thread thread, here: 
forums.primetimer.com/topic/122016-only-speculation-without-spoilers-in-the-thread/page/3

Thanks. Didn't know about that thread...I'll check it out!

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

How did the painting, and now knife, get put into Charles' apartment? - someone used the secret passage from his bathroom that Lucy showed them

Howard said that Charles never properly locks his doors.

[dovegrey]

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

OK, still unclear about the knife, but definitely need to add it to the list.  So apparently it was just a regular knife of Oliver's, and it somehow ended up bloodied in Charles' apartment?  Have we ever known anything at all about the actual knife that used in the murder?  Wouldn't Mabel have seen it?

When Bunny was found, there was only the knitting needle inside of her. Early in 2x1, the police tell Mabel they haven’t found the real murder weapon, which was described as a knife. Mabel was surprised and had no idea that Bunny had been killed with a knife. The knife they found in this episode was presumed by the characters to be the missing murder weapon and the blood would be Bunny’s. 

Earlier I think you asked about Winnie’s poisoning - The show never resolved that. If Bunny’s killer could get into Oliver’s apartment to take a knife, then maybe the same killer tried to poison Winnie and that was never related to Jan. I think someone wants these three and their snooping around gone and it started last season. 

[MisterGlass]

Like most of you I liked the young actress playing Lucy and thought she played wonderfully with Steve Martin.  She gave that impression of a kid who had to grow up a little too quickly.  However the timeline does bother me a lot, because IIRC Charles and her mother were together for six years.  From the last season I took it as a couple years since Charles had last seen Lucy, not eight.  If they haven't seen each other in eight years, and if she is 16, that means he was her parent from age 2 to 8.  That's not just a surrogate father, that's the only father she knew.  The idea of her mother insisting that they cut off contact completely makes even less sense under that scenario.

Nina may be selling the building's airspace to some other user rather than expanding the Arconia.

Oliver's list of directorial credits now includes a version of Macbeth starring Vanilla Ice?

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Oliver's list of directorial credits now includes a version of Macbeth starring Vanilla Ice?

I guess so? Hah!  
I had missed it, but now that you mentioned it, I checked, and Oliver does say about the bloody knife:

• “This is my opening night gift from Macbeats, my 1991 musical of Macbeth starring Vanilla Ice.”

So, although it’s a running joke that Oliver makes up stuff that he didn’t actually do, probably he’s not embellishing his bonafides in this case??? 
IDK. Maybe Oliver does tend to puff himself up with imaginary past accomplishments when he’s nervous?

Actually, these lines might just be comedic ad libbing by Martin Short, and that’s why Selena Gomez as Mabel had a line in response to him recently about some other past dramatic project he said he did in his past: 

• [MABEL] You never did that, did you?
• [OLIVER (SHEEPISHLY)] No. I didn’t.

I can easily imagine Oliver just hoped and dreamed of doing some of these productions, and maybe even started some, but would he make up a history about a bloody knife? Maybe? 

But didn't Vanilla Ice become kind of a has-been joke who might have gone for one of Oliver’s half-baked projects?

Edited July 16, 2022 by shapeshifter

[dovegrey]

7 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

However the timeline does bother me a lot, because IIRC Charles and her mother were together for six years.  From the last season I took it as a couple years since Charles had last seen Lucy, not eight.  If they haven't seen each other in eight years, and if she is 16, that means he was her parent from age 2 to 8.  That's not just a surrogate father, that's the only father she knew.  The idea of her mother insisting that they cut off contact completely makes even less sense under that scenario.

Bolded by me - I work with kids and families, and this happens a lot. A lot a lot. From how Lucy and Charles described Lucy's mom, as someone who runs from routine and stability and craves adventure, it doesn't surprise me at all that Emma (the mom) broke up but also went no-contact the very second Charles referred to them as a family (via the family fun cruise). If it helps any, from what Charles said last season, it sounds like Lucy might have lived with Charles for 1-2 years at most, rather than through her entire toddlerhood, early childhood, and lower elementary years, not that it really makes a giant difference. I have a post upthread somewhere that goes through the timeline based on what Charles said last season.

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Like most of you I liked the young actress playing Lucy and thought she played wonderfully with Steve Martin.  She gave that impression of a kid who had to grow up a little too quickly.  However the timeline does bother me a lot, because IIRC Charles and her mother were together for six years.  From the last season I took it as a couple years since Charles had last seen Lucy, not eight.  If they haven't seen each other in eight years, and if she is 16, that means he was her parent from age 2 to 8.  That's not just a surrogate father, that's the only father she knew.  The idea of her mother insisting that they cut off contact completely makes even less sense under that scenario.

2 hours ago, dovegrey said:

Bolded by me - I work with kids and families, and this happens a lot. A lot a lot. From how Lucy and Charles described Lucy's mom, as someone who runs from routine and stability and craves adventure, it doesn't surprise me at all that Emma (the mom) broke up but also went no-contact the very second Charles referred to them as a family (via the family fun cruise). If it helps any, from what Charles said last season, it sounds like Lucy might have lived with Charles for 1-2 years at most, rather than through her entire toddlerhood, early childhood, and lower elementary years, not that it really makes a giant difference. I have a post upthread somewhere that goes through the timeline based on what Charles said last season.

Yeah, I have the same timeline problem but I think the fact that Emma would do this is an intentional choice and one we haven't even delved into completely yet. Mabel told Lucy to tell Charles why she was really there, and while they did have a good conversation about her feelings about him and how deeply sad they both are at losing each other, I don't think Lucy actually did what Mabel said. I think that's why she still hasn't told Charles about being there that night. I get the feeling there is something going on in Lucy's life that she's still afraid to tell him for whatever reason. Maybe not specifically tied to the murder, but something else she was maybe even trying to warn Charles about but is afraid to say at the same time. The most obvious reason for her to have run there that night was to get away from her mom's wedding, but she may have had another, more pressing reason she was just putting ahead of being at the wedding. Her mom, who had broken off contact and probably didn't want Lucy talking about Charles either after they broke up, had him on her radar again because of the podcast.

Maybe if they were together six years he was in her life from 2-8 but they only lived together for the last few of those years. 6-8 is a very very long time when you're that age, and maybe Lucy would have been in the apartment plenty before that, just not living there officially. She said she had, what? 5 quasi-dads? If she was with Charles for 6 years that would leave eight years for four other guys. No wonder Lucy thinks of Charles as the closest she had to a real dad, especially if her mother specifically chose guys after Charles who weren't interested in being a family and so not that interested in their relationship with Lucy.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Pitta Putta! 🎶🎧🎤🎸

Edited July 17, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[MisterGlass]

That is perfectly cheesy and also perfectly overproduced.

[DoctorAtomic]

I like that the record is billed 'Brazzos Sings'. The show must have been huge. 

[sjankis630]

As everyone else is doing I am eagerly awaiting the next episode due to drop at midnight tonight. 

In the meantime I had a couple of questions to add to LuvMyShows already growing list.

1) How long has Lucy been in the Arconia when we see her meet Charles? The fact that she was in the tunnels makes me think that she could probably get in and use Charles' bathroom etc without him knowing for a few days.

2) What was down the passage that Lucy claimed "was a dead end"? (her "camp" that she has been staying for a few days while spying on residents?)

That is all.....

one more thing..... Trio maybe it is time to install some cameras in your apartments to catch all of these people who may be waltzing thru on any given night.... Just saying.

Edited July 18, 2022 by sjankis630

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, sjankis630 said:

2) What was down the passage that Lucy claimed "was a dead end"? (her "camp" that she has been staying for a few days while spying on residents?)

Good point. I glossed over this bit of dialog:

• [LUCY] Oh! Uh, don't go that way.
• [OLIVER] Why not?
• [LUCY] It's a dead end. You should follow me.

——I guess because Zoe Colletti seemed so believable as a teenager just directing the Intrepid Trio through the secret maze of the building. 
But, yeah, writers don't put lines like that into the script for no reason. This is not real life where a lot of extraneous stuff gets said.

And, yeah:

1 hour ago, sjankis630 said:

Trio maybe it is time to install some cameras in your apartments to catch all of these people who may be waltzing thru on any given night.... Just saying.

Didn't Charles get an Alexa-type device last season? Or was that another character on another show?

[AnimeMania]

[Milburn Stone]

Nina's plan for the building addition reminded me of the excrescence that was built atop Soldier Field in Chicago in the early 2000s. In fact, I'll venture that the show's art director was inspired (if that's the word) by it.

[ctmd]

On 7/13/2022 at 3:03 PM, dovegrey said:

I don't see how Mabel would be so lost, unless she was just completely creeped out by everything Lucy was saying about Mabel's life being dissected, being diagnosed, and needing benzos.

I agree. I was trying to figure out why people thought Mabel didn't "Understand" Lucy? She understood perfectly- Lucy was just being REALLY creepy. It honestly made me question LUCY's character. Not that she would murder, but was she up to some "no good" and was somehow involved as a result. 

[shapeshifter]

52 minutes ago, ctmd said:

I agree. I was trying to figure out why people thought Mabel didn't "Understand" Lucy? She understood perfectly- Lucy was just being REALLY creepy. It honestly made me question LUCY's character. Not that she would murder, but was she up to some "no good" and was somehow involved as a result. 

Maybe. But I took Lucy’s creepy talk to be Lucy parroting what she heard and read on social media and in texts and DMs  about Mabel from obsessed OMITB podcast fans. It was what all the cool kids were saying. 
There’s also somewhat of a fad among some young people of being on one or another spectrum of a personality disorder and being on one or more medications for it.
Lucy’s familiarity with the Arconia would get her a lot of caché with fans of the murder investigation, and, as an insecure young teen with a dysfunctional home life, likely she enjoyed the attention.

[FGomez]

I may have just spotted the key clue to who the murderer is.

Nina is in a lot of pain because she is about to give birth. Then she says: "You find her murderer and give me five minutes in a room with that motherfucker once you do!"

Isn't it typical for mothers to insult the child's father in those moments, and wishing him the same pain, for holding them responsible for the pain they are feeling?