S03.E06: Twice In A Lifetime

[AnimeMania]

The crew must rescue Gordon from a distant yet familiar world.

Original Airdate: July 7, 2022

[dwmarch]

Wow, that was good. The Orville knocks it out of the park two in a row.

I appreciated that Ed and Kelly actually told Gordon what happened in full detail. I also liked that when Gordon told his wife who he was she didn't have a sitcom-style freakout about it.

From the sounds of it there are various laws against temporal shenanigans however I feel like that device could be used to solve a variety of problems. I was sort of expecting Isaac to rescue Charly's friend for example.

Props to Isaac and Charly for acquiring the motorcycles without having to trash the biker bar in the process.

I also liked how they put Talla in a biker jacket for her undercover mission. That was a perfect look for her.

[AnimeMania]

Considering how much I hate episodes about time travel, I think this was one of the better ones, at least emotionally wise. It had a lot of raw energy and the method used to get Gordon back onto the Orville, was a brilliant solution. I wasn't too fond of how the Orville was able to return "Back to the Future". Despite the flaws (and Charley), this was one of my favorite episodes of The Orville.

The episode still seemed full of illogical choices and impossible scenarios, which is why I hate episodes about time travel. 

1) Don't time travel in a broken ship, fix the ship, in fact take it back to base and let the professionals fix it. It shouldn't matter how long you wait to make the time jump, you should end up in the same place, so why not be safe about it.

2) Gordon's rescue message. A) Sent to people he wasn't sure were alive. B) Sent to a place he had no idea where they would be at. C) Sent using a radio device he obtained that could send a message 3.5 times the speed of light.

3) Charley, too stupid to know what a cellphone is, yet very knowledgeable about everything else from the past, motorcycles, traffic laws, arm wrestling, basements, or any myriad of minutia of how to navigate seamlessly in the distant past.

4) What happens to the sandwich they sent 3 months into the future if they are not able to fix the time machine dohicky or remove it to protect it from being stolen? I have no idea why they agreed to such a stupid request.

At first I thought the space station they were delivering the time machine to was destroyed because of some experiment they did when they went back in time, which would create a paradox. Luckily the Planetary Union just has a high ranking mole leaking it's secrets to the Kaylon.

[phalange]

Shit, that was sad. I felt so horrible for Gordon and Laura when they hugged and the camera panned away and you knew what was about to happen. When the camera focused in on the picture I thought it was going to slowly fade away.

I gotta say, the way Ed and Kelly handled the whole thing was extremely harsh and the whole thing could've been avoided. Before going down to Earth, they all read Gordon's obituary, so they should've already known that he had a family and that convincing him to leave was never going to happen. Once they figured out that Earth had the dysonium, they should've just gone to get it, then gone back to 2015. That way, 2015 Gordon never would've known the difference and 2025 Gordon, Laura, and their son wouldn't have had to be terrified of blipping out of existence. And the worst part: Gordon clearly named his kid after Ed, and then Ed was like, "sorry dude, you should've just killed yourself to protect the timeline." It's a good thing he didn't, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to retrieve him in the first place. 

Despite how sad this was, it was also the funniest ep of the season. I've missed the humor. Bortus attempting a smile had me rolling and I loved Isaac attempting to act human. "Oh no, I am losing." Mark Jackson is great as Isaac, even when he's in human form he still has the perfect Isaac mannerisms.

I'm 100% on board with John and Talla. The poor engineering crew is probably scarred for life though.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Considering how much I hate episodes about time travel, I think this was one of the better ones, at least emotionally wise. It had a lot of raw energy and the method used to get Gordon back onto the Orville, was a brilliant solution. I wasn't too fond of how the Orville was able to return "Back to the Future". Despite the flaws (and Charley), this was one of my favorite episodes of The Orville.

The episode still seemed full of illogical choices and impossible scenarios, which is why I hate episodes about time travel. 

1) Don't time travel in a broken ship, fix the ship, in fact take it back to base and let the professionals fix it. It shouldn't matter how long you wait to make the time jump, you should end up in the same place, so why not be safe about it.

2) Gordon's rescue message. A) Sent to people he wasn't sure were alive. B) Sent to a place he had no idea where they would be at. C) Sent using a radio device he obtained that could send a message 3.5 times the speed of light.

3) Charley, too stupid to know what a cellphone is, yet very knowledgeable about everything else from the past, motorcycles, traffic laws, arm wrestling, basements, or any myriad of minutia of how to navigate seamlessly in the distant past.

4) What happens to the sandwich they sent 3 months into the future if they are not able to fix the time machine dohicky or remove it to protect it from being stolen? I have no idea why they agreed to such a stupid request.

At first I thought the space station they were delivering the time machine to was destroyed because of some experiment they did when they went back in time, which would create a paradox. Luckily the Planetary Union just has a high ranking mole leaking it's secrets to the Kaylon.

And yet, @AnimeMania, even though, in contrast, I love time travel episodes🔸
and love theorizing about time travel and alternate universes,🔹 
I really appreciate your list, of inconsistencies from the episode.
Especially: Where's our frackin' egg salad sandwich?! 🥪
More importantly, like Gordon said, the fact that the Orville crew were all still in tact meant he couldn't have screwed up the timeline too badly, and, by bringing him back, they may have just prevented the Krill and Kaylon from having never attained the will and power to annihilate the Union. I'm betting Gordon would have recorded journals for the 24th or whatever relevant century to learn from. 

Okay. In one of our real-world, not-show alternate universes:
This episode was written so Gordon stayed with his family and wrote useful journals to the future.
Then, at the end of the episode, we zoom out and see that all happened in an in-show alternate universe, while the show continues with Gordon back on the Orville.

But I do like the way it was written so the characters have to live with their sense of loss of what could have been, which was mirrored with Charly's "conversation" with Isaac, and perhaps Grimes and Palicki's divorce at the time. 

Scott Grimes did Emmy-worthy work; maybe there's some Scifi awards he'll at least get, or, maybe even better, he'll get cast in some other roles which he would not have otherwise, and which he will totally own.

Didn't someone post in another thread that this was the first episode that would have been filmed after Palicki and Grimes divorce? If so, kudos for working the emotions into the plot in a respectful way.
But, Adrianne? After hearing Scott play guitar and sing in the opening scene? Speaking from my own distant future: I still wonder if I should've stayed on the island with that violinist at least another day 45 years ago to see if there was some spark. 

________________________________________________

🔸My favorite time travel episodes of any series are probably these from Stargate SG1: 
     2.21 "1969", 4.06 "Window Of Opportunity", 8.19-20 "Moebius", and 10.20 "Unending"

🔹Here I am 55 years ago with my science fair project:
     

Edited July 7, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Wow, that was good. The Orville knocks it out of the park two in a row.

I appreciated that Ed and Kelly actually told Gordon what happened in full detail. I also liked that when Gordon told his wife who he was she didn't have a sitcom-style freakout about it.

From the sounds of it there are various laws against temporal shenanigans however I feel like that device could be used to solve a variety of problems. I was sort of expecting Isaac to rescue Charly's friend for example.

Props to Isaac and Charly for acquiring the motorcycles without having to trash the biker bar in the process.

I also liked how they put Talla in a biker jacket for her undercover mission. That was a perfect look for her.

Knocking it out of the park is a little strong, though I agree that the last two have been good.

I dunno, if I were Gordon, I would still be pissed that Ed and Kelly erased the life I had built with my dream girl and child. Or at least I wouldn't be super-chipper about them having done the right thing like Gordon was. At best I'd be like, "Man I know you did what you had to do, but that sucks."

But then I think Laura did take things in stride about Gordon being from the future. When you think about it, what Gordon did is actually super creepy. He took her cell phone and used data from it to create a simulation to figure out how to romance her, then used that knowledge to win her over at a huge information dissymmetry.

The problem with the fact of the time travel device is that there is no reason it cannot be used to solve all sorts of problems other than the Union's distaste for time travel. Which again, is probably fine from the perspective of an academic standpoint, but if you are forced between the choice of annhilation for the Union and time travel to end the problem, then it's a much easier choice. The practical will win out over principle every time.

I was surprised that they didn't cover Talia's nose. 

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Considering how much I hate episodes about time travel, I think this was one of the better ones, at least emotionally wise. It had a lot of raw energy and the method used to get Gordon back onto the Orville, was a brilliant solution. I wasn't too fond of how the Orville was able to return "Back to the Future". Despite the flaws (and Charley), this was one of my favorite episodes of The Orville.

The episode still seemed full of illogical choices and impossible scenarios, which is why I hate episodes about time travel. 

1) Don't time travel in a broken ship, fix the ship, in fact take it back to base and let the professionals fix it. It shouldn't matter how long you wait to make the time jump, you should end up in the same place, so why not be safe about it.

2) Gordon's rescue message. A) Sent to people he wasn't sure were alive. B) Sent to a place he had no idea where they would be at. C) Sent using a radio device he obtained that could send a message 3.5 times the speed of light.

3) Charley, too stupid to know what a cellphone is, yet very knowledgeable about everything else from the past, motorcycles, traffic laws, arm wrestling, basements, or any myriad of minutia of how to navigate seamlessly in the distant past.

4) What happens to the sandwich they sent 3 months into the future if they are not able to fix the time machine dohicky or remove it to protect it from being stolen? I have no idea why they agreed to such a stupid request.

At first I thought the space station they were delivering the time machine to was destroyed because of some experiment they did when they went back in time, which would create a paradox. Luckily the Planetary Union just has a high ranking mole leaking it's secrets to the Kaylon.

1) The Orville, it seemed to me, had little choice because the Kaylon had damaged it. They kind of dropped the whole Kaylon were trying to get the device, though. It's unclear when the Orville came back to the present exactly. 

2) Yeah, it seems a stretch that Gordon would be able to gather the materials to send the message and that he would send the message to that point in space-time as opposed to any number of other ones. 

3) As much as I hate Charly, it's not so much a question of stupidity as of familiarity. I'm sure there are a lot of things from 400 years ago that we wouldn't recognize on first sight, but we would still have enough familiarity through pop culture to figure out that, say, a jousting contest rigged in our favor might get us use of a knight's horse or something like that. That's putting aside the notion that Charly being caught off-guard by something at a party where she was likely drinking would probably be less able to identify something than a sober Charly who had time to prepare to go on a mission that involved going undercover in a 21st century setting. Ugh. I feel dirty after defending Charly. Though I do have to say that the character seemed less awful and the acting less wooden than in previous episodes.

4) Not sure I care about the sandwich really, but presumably, it will appear in the lab three months from when it was sent regardless of anything else.

It doesn't really make sense that the Kaylon chose that specific time to attack and try to obtain the time-manipulation device. Presumably, they have known about it since S1, as Isaac should have included information about it in his very first report. 

It also doesn't make sense that John and Isaac were apparently able to make the device far more powerful working parti-time at best on it than the full-time researchers who specialized in it. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Chicago Redshirt

[madfortv]

Include my name in the list of people who don't much like time travel episodes, but agree this was one of the better ones.  It was another well done episode.  Two in a row for me.

While I like the idea of John and Tallia getting together, it was handled poorly in this episode. That scene should have been cut just for its stupidity. Yes, two officers would act this way in an open area while working to restore the ship. Lol. Not likely!

[Chaos Theory]

The adventures of human!Isaac and Charly traversing old style earth is kind of hilarious.   You don't have to like the actress who plays Charly but she has hella chemistry with the actor who plays Isaac.  

Gordon has never been my favorite character but I felt really sorry for him when Ed and Kelly told him he couldn't stay in the life he had made for himself where he was happy and that they were actually pissed at him for breaking temporal law.

Temporal Law sucks.

I was surprised that Ed and Kelly  told an earlier version of Gordon  that they managed to save the truth and that this earlier version who hadn't been trapped on earth for a decade was perfectly cool with the idea that and entire life where he had a wife and kids never existed.    Not sure I bought the ending.  It was a little too cheep and easy.   

I was actually waiting for a slightly sad version of Gordon to get his future sandwich.

[shapeshifter]

45 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I was actually waiting for a slightly sad version of Gordon to get his future sandwich.

Yeah, something like that. 
I guess the missing sandwich is the thing that changed as a result of some butterfly Gordon stepped on
--like the fish in Jack O'Neill's pond on Stargate SG1
--unless the sandwich shows up next week?

Edited July 7, 2022 by shapeshifter

[blueray]

I always love a good time travel episode. I did enjoy this one, however I agree 100% with older Gordon. It changed once he had a family. Those kids exist and should matter. Couldn't they have just taken the family with them? They know what she did and other then the phone she was just some girl. But I guess it would have still changed the timeline. 

It was a sad episode and showing him so happy with his family. I didn't want them to write out Gordon but it sounded like he had a good life. Had a family, had a career that he loved and died at 96. Seemed like a full life to me. 

Also the sandwich better appear in a future episode just pops into engineering. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by blueray

[Colorado David]

eh, ok episode. i hate the time ones, because it opens the can of worms of 'well now we can just go back and fix everything' tropes.  huge mcguffin. nice seeing the actor playing isaac. charley still annoying, past or present. lol at bortus trying to smile, that was hysterical. grimes doing great, he is a killer actor. buying all his emotions.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Colorado David

[Lugal]

I love a good time travel episode.  Scott Grimes really rocked here. Mark Jackson and J Lee were also impressive.  I hope we get an episode centered around John, he's due.  I also agree with 2025 Gordon: he had a life and a family, and Ed and Kelly were playing god to say he was wrong and that the children shouldn't exist.  And from the obituary it didn't look like Gordon really did anything to change the timeline, he acclimated to the world and blended in.

It feels like they left it open, since earlier John and Isaac talked about a paradox and a superposition where everything is possible, so maybe 2025 Gordon got to continue on with his life.  I kinda hope so.

I can sort of buy the ending, in that Gordon was rescued after a month and being told what happened it's more of an abstract intellectual exercise for him, rather than a lived experience.  Like when you think about roads not taken.

I hope the sandwich just turns up randomly in a future episode.

[supposebly]

I like time travel. Not so much for its inherent problems once you start thinking about it all, but for the emotional impact. And I think this is where this episode was done quite well.

I would have liked a bit of younger Gordon to at least muse about the life he could have had but other than that, it was fine. This Gordon was desperate to get back home, so I understand why he is absolutely fine with it. He has very little understanding of 2025 Gordon.

I also liked how they drew parallels with Charly's conversation with Isaac about what her life would have been. Not sure I buy that she would know how to get the bikes via bar arm wrestling. But ok.

I kept waiting for the realtor to come back to see them drilling a hole in the house.

And I would have liked a scene where Gordon eats his future sandwich. Just because.

Edited July 8, 2022 by supposebly

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

...I also liked how they drew parallels with Charly's conversation with Isaac about what her life would have been. Not sure I buy that she would know how to get the bikes via bar arm wrestling. But ok.

With all that extra time they have, the party could have included an arm wrestling bit before Gordon's song. Talla and Isaac would be a good tossup for winner.
I'm still not sure Charly would know what to do with the keys. There could have been a line where Isaac needs to look it up in his Old Earth memory bank. 

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

...I kept waiting for the realtor to come back to see them drilling a hole in the house....

I did think Anne Winters as Charly did a decent job of making us worry about the realtor coming downstairs while they were drilling through the earth's crust.

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

And I would have liked a scene where Gordon eats his future sandwich. Just because.

I'm not sure if I would prefer we never see the sandwich again (to signify the slight change in timelines) or if it would be better for it to pop up in 3 weeks. 

[Boofish]

This episode was good but I was confused at one point. Gordon being mad it took so long to find him but no one discussing for the Orville crew he was only gone an hour. Dang bruh, they came as soon as they could.

[greekmom]

I understand the difference between 2015 Gordon and 2025 Gordon. No one knows the suffering he had in the first 3 years all alone. And he had to hunt for food which would be totally alien Gordon is a sociable person, more so than other members of the crew.  I can see 2018 Gordon getting fed up about being saved and just saying "screw it" and living a life.  

I wish he would have given a reason why he used his real name and didn't make up a name so the timeline won't get polluted. 

Another great episode and call back to 2 previous episodes.

[NJRadioGuy]

This one hurt more than City On The Edge Of Forever. Edith Keeler was single, after all. There were no children involved and the time interval was longer here. 

Although I doubt they'll ever revisit Laura, if they do, I somehow hope Gordon looks her up in historical records and sees that she had a brilliant music career, and hopefully a happy life with a couple of kids and a loving husband. 

[chaifan]

20 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

3) Charley, too stupid to know what a cellphone is, yet very knowledgeable about everything else from the past, motorcycles, traffic laws, arm wrestling, basements, or any myriad of minutia of how to navigate seamlessly in the distant past.

I said it before, I'll say it again... Charly is Bailey 2.0. 

14 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As much as I hate Charly, it's not so much a question of stupidity as of familiarity. I'm sure there are a lot of things from 400 years ago that we wouldn't recognize on first sight, but we would still have enough familiarity through pop culture to figure out that, say, a jousting contest rigged in our favor might get us use of a knight's horse or something like that.

I'll give you that on the arm wrestling challenge.  And, there was an episode in Season 2 where Alara was arm wrestling someone and lost, and that's how she found out about her strength decreasing.  So it's a thing on The Orville.  But Charly knowing how to start/drive a 2025 motorcycle would be like anyone now walking up to an early Model T with a crank start, early version of stick shift and knowing how to start it and drive away.  Not to mention she is teeny tiny, and those were some damn big bikes. 

I liked this episode.  It felt more like Season 1 Orville than anything else this season.  Some serious issues, but a lot of humor and good character interaction.  I recently re-watched Season 1 and 2, and instantly recognized the song Gordon was playing at the party as the duet he did with Laura in that earlier episode. 

While the concept of hiding out in isolation is fine in theory, it would be extremely hard to do in real life.  Unless they expect the time-displaced crew member to live in a cave in true caveman style, living anywhere is going to require money, resources, and inevitably interacting with other people.  Where was Gordon living for 3 years?  Did he find an abandoned cabin in the woods?  He looked in pretty good shape, clean and well groomed, after living alone for a month when they got him in 2015. 

I was hoping that Gordon's family would come back with him.  This would have made for one of those interesting time paradoxes - Gordon's obit could have said that he was killed in a house fire along with his wife and child, where that was just the cover for pulling them out of 2025 without people wondering where they went.  (The Orville could replicate charred bodies using their DNA, or something like that.)  I'd love to have a married, family life Gordon on The Orville. 

I agree with everyone - the sandwich has to make an appearance!   I vote for it popping up just as Talla and John are about to have sex in the engineering room.  And it's good to know that 400 years from now back rubs still lead to sex.  😁

I liked seeing Mark Jackson again.  Is Issac's voice his real voice (not his normal natural voice, but the actor acting like an AI) or is it processed somehow, like an auto tune type thing and dubbed back in? 

[Athena5217]

When the egg salad sandwich appears in 3 months, will it be a 3-month old sandwich? Because … gross.

[legaleagle53]

I loved this episode. I have always wanted to see a time-travel episode that sent the Orville back to our era, and Seth and crew really delivered.

I liked the call-back to "Lasting Impressions." I remember someone in that episode discussion thread predicting that Gordon would somehow find himself back in 2015 and meet the real Laura and have a relationship with her. This was also a nod to both "The Inner Light" from TNG and "The City on the Edge of Forever" from TOS with Laura as Gordon's Edith Keeler.

And I did NOT have "Charly is an out and proud lesbian who was secretly in love with Amanda" on my bingo card, did you? It explains why she really hates Isaac and will never forgive him. Yes, she's still an annoying bitch whom I would love to slap 400 years into HER future, but at least the passion with which she hates Isaac is coming from an understandable place. It's just too bad that there's really nowhere for her to go in terms of growth.

7 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

When the egg salad sandwich appears in 3 months, will it be a 3-month old sandwich? Because … gross.

Nope. It will still be fresh. Time-travel doesn't age or rejuvenate the people and things that are doing it. That's why the crew didn't go back to a point of non-existence as they traveled back to 2015/2025 or age 400 years during the return trip to 2422.

Edited July 8, 2022 by legaleagle53

[Guest]

Overall I really liked the episode. It was a really great episode for Gordon. They finally did a good job of combining the humor and the seriousness. I still really dislike Charly but this was a bit of an improvement. For the first time I got the feeling she could have been an okay character if her entire personality wasn’t hating Isaac and being unusually skilled at whatever the plot requires.

As much as I liked it there was a lot that irritated me. Particularly that Ed and Kelly were pretty unlikeable throughout. They’ve both been shown to be compassionate and empathetic people but put them in the past and they are sanctimonious assholes.

I have no problem with the idea that the changes Gordon made could be dangerous and needed to be fixed. After all there were two episodes last season focused on the dangers of a seemingly small change. But their initial solution wouldn’t have fixed anything. The damage was done at that point. I could even be onboard with the idea of going back to 2015 and getting Gordon before anything could change but letting them know ahead of time was just cruel. Deliberately causing pain when they could have just agreed to let Gordon stay and then go back and make the change. Plus it’s bad writing. The audience realizing on our own what they were doing would have been a much better reveal. 

I have very mixed feelings about this season. The last few episodes have been very good but that is making me resentful of how poorly they are using the cast. This formula of focusing on one character each episode and then all but ignoring them in other episodes is freaking annoying. Bortus has his entire life turned upside down and this week is basically nonexistent. Gordon is in the background for 5 episodes then gets great character development for it to be wiped out in the end. Kelly is being wasted. John and Talla still have no backstory. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I said it before, I'll say it again... Charly is Bailey 2.0. 

I'll give you that on the arm wrestling challenge.  And, there was an episode in Season 2 where Alara was arm wrestling someone and lost, and that's how she found out about her strength decreasing.  So it's a thing on The Orville.  But Charly knowing how to start/drive a 2025 motorcycle would be like anyone now walking up to an early Model T with a crank start, early version of stick shift and knowing how to start it and drive away.  Not to mention she is teeny tiny, and those were some damn big bikes. 

One thing worth mentioning: the fact that the Union has the resources for simulators gives a slight bit more credibility to the notion that Charlie might know on her own how to ride a motorcycle. Union people would have the free time and the means to explore all sort of stuff first hand in general. They could have thrown in a line that Charly too was enamored of motorcycles, or she futzed around on similar motorcycles at the Union Point Museum of Speedy Vehicles or whatever. But that would run dangerously close to giving her a facet of personality beyond hating Isaac and being good at 4-dimensional visualization, whatever that is supposed to mean.

It was weird: Charly seemed taller this episode to me. The actress, according to IMDB is 5'1" so pretty tiny, and it was really noticeable in some of the previous episodes. But this one she seemed average height.

26 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

And I did NOT have "Charly is an out and proud lesbian who was secretly in love with Amanda" on my bingo card, did you? It explains why she really hates Isaac and will never forgive him. Yes, she's still an annoying bitch whom I would love to slap 400 years into HER future, but at least the passion with which she hates Isaac is coming from an understandable place. It's just too bad that there's really nowhere for her to go in terms of growth.

I was under the impression that it wasn't secret, and that they were sleeping together but didn't get to the "Let's get married" type talk. 

One place for the writers to take Charly is for Isaac to at some point save her life and for her to develop a grudging respect for him/forgive him. That is what I'd normally expect if the show is given enough time to develop things. Another would be to try to recreate the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic with Ed/Isaac/Charly even though the Trek originals far outdo their Orville counterparts. I even was thinking before the Charly/Amanda relationship reveal that they might be dabbling in the direction of hate sex or adversaries-turned-lovers. I suppose it's still possible that she's bi/pansexual and they do try something in that direction.

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

One place for the writers to take Charly is for Isaac to at some point save her life and for her to develop a grudging respect for him/forgive him. That is what I'd normally expect if the show is given enough time to develop things. Another would be to try to recreate the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic with Ed/Isaac/Charly even though the Trek originals far outdo their Orville counterparts. I even was thinking before the Charly/Amanda relationship reveal that they might be dabbling in the direction of hate sex or adversaries-turned-lovers. I suppose it's still possible that she's bi/pansexual and they do try something in that direction.

And where does that leave Claire, who seems to be starting to have feelings for Isaac again herself?

[Bort]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

Charly knowing how to start/drive a 2025 motorcycle would be like anyone now walking up to an early Model T with a crank start, early version of stick shift and knowing how to start it and drive away.

This doesn’t bother me, some people are mechanically inclined to figure such things out and some aren’t. If I were dropped into the 30s, I’m pretty sure I could figure out how to start a Model T. I figured out how to work my grandparents 70 year old projector when I found it in a box.

I really did like the Charly and Isaac scenes. I think if they’d led with scenes like that at the beginning of the season, it would’ve gone a long way in new character acceptance. Now they have to work to dig her out of the hole they started her with.

Apropos of nothing, I was endlessly amused at the tumbler glasses that Ed, Kelly and Gordon were drinking out of in the last scene because I have a set of them in my liquor cabinet.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It was weird: Charly seemed taller this episode to me. The actress, according to IMDB is 5'1" so pretty tiny, and it was really noticeable in some of the previous episodes. But this one she seemed average height.

It was her shoes.

6 hours ago, Boofish said:

This episode was good but I was confused at one point. Gordon being mad it took so long to find him but no one discussing for the Orville crew he was only gone an hour. Dang bruh, they came as soon as they could.

I didn’t think he was mad that it took so long. He was saying that they took too long for their argument that he had to go back to protect the timeline to be valid. 

[thuganomics85]

That egg sandwich better make a grand return in three months!  Hell, find a way to have it save the day somehow!

One of the better time-travel episodes out there and interesting dilemma at the end.  I understand Ed and Kelly's concerns over how leaving things the way they are can have rippled effects that no one can predict and it could end up changing the future in some or even a lot of ways.  And it might not be a good thing.  But to knowingly do something that is basically going to not just change the happy lives of two individuals but pretty much wipe two kids out of existence?  Yeah, you have to really go to a cold, emotionless place to do that and it's kind of scary that Ed and Kelly were able to solider on like that.  I know an argument can be made that it was Gordon's decisions that started this predicament and the other two were just fixing it, but asking someone to live off the grid for the rest of their lives is just a huge task and I don't blame him for trying to make a life for himself.

I do wish they went more into the implications of Gordon having knowledge about Laura's history and him not letting her know about it though.  I'm not sure if it's full-fledge creepy or manipulative, but that had to at least give him a little advantage at being able to start a romantic relationship with her that could be considered questionable at best.  Even if the love between them was real, their relationship was never really on equal footing, in my opinion.

Loved that they found a way to have Human Isaac again and allow Mark Jackson to get some face time again.  Also the best use of Charly so far, but I really hope they shake this dynamic up because even if there are good reason for her to never like him, it's just getting tiresome now.

Figured LaMarr and Keyali would hook-up at some point, but I didn't think it would happen this quickly!

Great episode for Scott Grimes!

I can totally believe that there would be a "roommate sitcom" in 2025 with Johnny Knoxville and Jack McBrayer!

[paulvdb]

30 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I do wish they went more into the implications of Gordon having knowledge about Laura's history and him not letting her know about it though.  I'm not sure if it's full-fledge creepy or manipulative, but that had to at least give him a little advantage at being able to start a romantic relationship with her that could be considered questionable at best.  Even if the love between them was real, their relationship was never really on equal footing, in my opinion.

If I had been in Laura's position my reaction would probably have been closer to Leah Brahms' than Laura's.

As far as the sandwich is concerned, would it show up on the Orville? Or in empty space at the location where the Orville was when they sent it to the future?

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

there was an episode in Season 2 where Alara was arm wrestling someone and lost, and that's how she found out about her strength decreasing.  So it's a thing on The Orville.

Thank you! I thought we’d seen arm wrestling on an earlier season. 
 

3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

liked the call-back to "Lasting Impressions." I remember someone in that episode discussion thread predicting that Gordon would somehow find himself back in 2015 and meet the real Laura and have a relationship with her.

Sadly and embarrassingly for me, the cell phone video bit was barely familiar to me. A lot has happened IRL since "Lasting Impressions” aired in March 21, 2019.

[Chaos Theory]

I think a lot of these science fiction laws are being shown as theoretical making sense but incredibly cruel in practice.     Was Kelly really supposed to let a child die during the episode where she unintentionally became a God?     Now here was Gordon really supposed to spend the next 40 years living as a hermit seeing no one talking to no one?      Any law that leaves no room for if ands or buts can be seen as inherently cruel because it leaves no room for the human condition.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think a lot of these science fiction laws are being shown as theoretical making sense but incredibly cruel in practice.     Was Kelly really supposed to let a child die during the episode where she unintentionally became a God?     Now here was Gordon really supposed to spend the next 40 years living as a hermit seeing no one talking to no one?      Any law that leaves no room for if ands or buts can be seen as inherently cruel because it leaves no room for the human condition.

Which is why the Prime Directive of Star Trek and the Union equivalent of it here are seen as universally despised draconian laws because they require one to constantly ignore that "human condition." On the other hand, the Enterprise episode "Cogenitor" demonstrates exactly why the Prime Directive exists. The Prime Directive didn't exist in Captain Archer's time, so Tucker set out to liberate what he saw as a member of an enslaved species, the Cogenitors. His motives were pure and understandable from his and our point of view, but as the events of that episode unfolded, his noble act of liberation turned out to be disastrous for that planet's culture and the specific individuals involved because it not only led to the suicide of the "enslaved" Cogenitor, it also destroyed any hope of the couple to whom the Cogenitor belonged to have any children because they needed the Cogenitor to complete the reproductive process.

Edited July 8, 2022 by legaleagle53

[greekmom]

10 hours ago, chaifan said:

I was hoping that Gordon's family would come back with him.  This would have made for one of those interesting time paradoxes - Gordon's obit could have said that he was killed in a house fire along with his wife and child, where that was just the cover for pulling them out of 2025 without people wondering where they went.  (The Orville could replicate charred bodies using their DNA, or something like that.)  I'd love to have a married, family life Gordon on The Orville. 

I was hoping for that too but I don't think 2025 Gordon would have integrated back on the Orville and as a Union officer as easily as 2015 Gordon.  I dunno, I feel there is a major gap there somewhere that something really bad happened to Gordon in those 3 years that made him give up on the temporal directive and just seek out a new life.

9 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And I did NOT have "Charly is an out and proud lesbian who was secretly in love with Amanda" on my bingo card, did you? It explains why she really hates Isaac and will never forgive him. Yes, she's still an annoying bitch whom I would love to slap 400 years into HER future, but at least the passion with which she hates Isaac is coming from an understandable place. It's just too bad that there's really nowhere for her to go in terms of growth.

Ditto. Also bothered me that how long was she and Amanda friends? It sounded as if they were close since their Academy days.  And you're telling me all this time, ALL THIS TIME, you have not told her how you feel? Isn't that at least 10 years? I don't buy it.

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Loved that they found a way to have Human Isaac again and allow Mark Jackson to get some face time again.  Also the best use of Charly so far, but I really hope they shake this dynamic up because even if there are good reason for her to never like him, it's just getting tiresome now.

Great episode for Scott Grimes!

I love Mark Jackson!  I would have liked to see Issac save Charly somehow (car coming and he pulled her back) and just lessen the animosity she has for him.

Scott knocked it out of the park this episode.  Wouldn't it have been great if he checked the cellphone again and there was the family photo on there? Just as a time paradox?!?!?!

Edited July 8, 2022 by greekmom

[jah1986]

I did enjoy this episode although so much irritated me. Loved seeing "human" Isaac, I like that he keeps his android mannerisms although he's in human form.  Bortus smiling, just made me laugh out loud.

You know with Gordon's story, I really hated that Ed and Kelly couldn't spare a minute of compassion for his feelings and situation. And then Ed saying that he should have killed himself rather than live his life? I was done with him and Kelly. It was a sad episode.

[Chicago Redshirt]

10 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And where does that leave Claire, who seems to be starting to have feelings for Isaac again herself?

Some shows love their love triangles. So maybe there would be a Claire-Isaac-Charly one.

Anyway, I tend to doubt that there is enough runway for The Orville to explore the possibility. I'm mostly resigned to the notion that it will finish out this season and that will be it for the show. Hate to be a pessimist, but if the comments here are an accurate indication of how the fanbase is feeling about this season, it's been hit and miss and it doesn't seem like there has been an influx of new viewers.

My prediction is somewhere within the 4 episodes left this season, Isaac will save Charly's life directly and that will signal the beginning of a thaw.

8 hours ago, Dani said:

It was her shoes.

Fair enough. I wonder if they will have her wear higher heels in her regular uniform or if it was part of her covert 21st century outfit.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Some shows love their love triangles. So maybe there would be a Claire-Isaac-Charly one.

It hard to imagine another plot that I would hate more. 

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

My prediction is somewhere within the 4 episodes left this season, Isaac will save Charly's life directly and that will signal the beginning of a thaw.

12 hours ago, Dani said:

I’m expecting the Trek classic trapped together episode. Possible after a shuttle accident. 

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Fair enough. I wonder if they will have her wear higher heels in her regular uniform or if it was part of her covert 21st century outfit.

It was part of her 21st century look. She had on boots with a good sized heel. I’m guessing it was because her normal height made the walking and standing shots of her and Isaac difficult to frame. Normally they use other tricks to shoot around the height difference. She has a lot of conversations with people while sitting. 

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

It was part of her 21st century look. She had on boots with a good sized heel. I’m guessing it was because her normal height made the walking and standing shots of her and Isaac difficult to frame. Normally they use other tricks to shoot around the height difference. She has a lot of conversations with people while sitting. 

And, Mark Jackson is 5'10".  Not short, but not terribly tall.  And he's got a slighter build, so next to him Charly doesn't seem as small. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

It hard to imagine another plot that I would hate more. 

I’m expecting the Trek classic trapped together episode. Possible after a shuttle accident. 

It was part of her 21st century look. She had on boots with a good sized heel. I’m guessing it was because her normal height made the walking and standing shots of her and Isaac difficult to frame. Normally they use other tricks to shoot around the height difference. She has a lot of conversations with people while sitting. 

I would be right there with you as to the awfulness of a Claire-Isaac-Charly love triangle and hope that I didn't speak it into existence.

Yep, trapped in a dysfunctional shuttle, marooned on a planet, held captive by a hostile alien are all tried-and-true approaches that they could mine.

Speaking of shuttles, we still haven't had anything done with the one-person craft that debuted in the season premiere. I assume we'll have to see that in action as well. 

29 minutes ago, chaifan said:

And, Mark Jackson is 5'10".  Not short, but not terribly tall.  And he's got a slighter build, so next to him Charly doesn't seem as small. 

It's not like any of the leading men of the Orville are particularly tall, according to IMDB:

Seth: 5'10.5

Scott: 5'9"

Peter: 6'0

J.Lee: 5'9.5"

(In case you're wondering, the Marcus actor is already over 5'10, and Chad Coleman is 5'11, Adrienne is 5'10.75").

The episode where her shortness first seemed pronounced was the one with Bruce Boxleitner guest-starring. He's 6'2 plus had head stuff going on to be an alien, so maybe that foot gap helped solidify how tiny Anne is.

[Bort]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I’m expecting the Trek classic trapped together episode. Possible after a shuttle accident. 

31 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Yep, trapped in a dysfunctional shuttle, marooned on a planet, held captive by a hostile alien are all tried-and-true approaches that they could mine.

I don’t think that trope is necessary, the plot in this episode already accomplished what we would get out of it. Isaac and Charly’s team mission isolated them from the rest of the ship and some air got cleared. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The episode where her shortness first seemed pronounced was the one with Bruce Boxleitner guest-starring. He's 6'2 plus had head stuff going on to be an alien, so maybe that foot gap helped solidify how tiny Anne is.

It was really noticeable in that episode. Victor Garber was also in those shots and his six foot. Plus I’m pretty sure that Seth was wearing lift in those scenes because he was the same height as VG. 
Noticing the things they do to compensate for the height deferential between Anne and the others usually distracts me from how much I dislike the character. I’m surprised they having given her any scenes with Claire or Talla because they are closer in height. Of course that would mean mean making her less one note so it probably won’t happen. 

25 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I don’t think that trope is necessary, the plot in this episode already accomplished what we would get out of it. Isaac and Charly’s team mission isolated them from the rest of the ship and some air got cleared. 

I completely agree it’s not necessary. I just don’t think that will stop them. I would love if this episode would let the move past this but I don’t think it went far enough for that to happen anytime soon. 

[dwmarch]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Speaking of shuttles, we still haven't had anything done with the one-person craft that debuted in the season premiere.

That shuttle bugs me. It's parked right at the door so any other shuttles coming in have to fly over it and park behind it. The flight path should be a strictly enforced no parking space. What if a shuttle is damaged and has to come in for a hard landing? "Try not to hit the speedy shuttle on the way in or we're really screwed!" Park it off to the side or have it in its own dedicated launch bay if it absolutely must sit by the door at all times. Do they not have a safety committee on this ship?

[DoctorAtomic]

I had the same problem with Star Trek - why do these ships not have rear guns? Babylon 5 ships were much better engineered. 

I am glad that Gordon went down to engineering and was intending to destroy the time device and just that the explosion sent him off instead of him thinking he could just do back and do something. It was kind of nice that it seemed he lived a good life. He built his own plane!

Edited July 9, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Speaking of shuttles, we still haven't had anything done with the one-person craft that debuted in the season premiere. I assume we'll have to see that in action as well. 

Not until I've forgotten its existence, so stop reminding me of the hot rod from the season premiere if you want to see it again. ;)

[DoctorAtomic]

I was surprised the entire ship went back. I thought they would have 'beamed' Ed and Kelly or LaMarr, or Claire to go down and locate him and then like open some window to take them back. 

Many of you all called that there was going to be some plot where Isaac and Charly had to work together. I mean, not surprising, but I liked that it was paired with getting the mineral or whatever it was.   

I don't know if anyone watches Farscape, but I was thinking about Kansas and Moya hiding out when they were showing the Orville behind the Moon. 

I thought it was interesting that Ed and Kelly were so hardline with Gordon. I really liked the three of them arguing about it. They were all really good. Grimes really shined. Same with the conversation with his wife. The derivative scene would have been the wife being 'oh you lied to me all this time; how can I trust you blah blah'.

I did like how the time jumps were so violent. Technically, though, at the end, any ship can disengage the quantum drive, and just drive into the future. 

I was also surprised that Ed and Kelly told Gordon the whole deal too. I wonder if they told him he lived to 96. The other on that; if they got his obit, surely they could have seen what his descendents did. Sure, make the attempt, but if amounted to just regular people (not influencing the Union), they could have just faked his death. On the other hand, this was a cruel ending, which I kind of like too. 

I do kind of hope that they somehow figure out that this bites them in the future. 

On 7/7/2022 at 6:46 AM, shapeshifter said:

Scott Grimes did Emmy-worthy work; maybe there's some Scifi awards he'll at least get, or, maybe even better, he'll get cast in some other roles which he would not have otherwise, and which he will totally own.

Those are called 'Hugo' iirc. Those might be just books. 

On 7/7/2022 at 4:45 PM, Lugal said:

And from the obituary it didn't look like Gordon really did anything to change the timeline, he acclimated to the world and blended in.

I paused to read it. He was just a pilot for a small place and built his own plane. So what? I liked the episode, but I would have liked in their argument if Gordon had said, 'what did I do that was so bad?' Because he did say, 'maybe my son is your ancestor to Kelly,' and that the Union clearly still exists, but a more salient question is Gordon's influence on his family goes down through the centuries to where the whole Krill and Kaylon mess is averted. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[legaleagle53]

25 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I paused to read it. He was just a pilot for a small place and built his own plane. So what? I liked the episode, but I would have liked in their argument if Gordon had said, 'what did I do that was so bad?' Because he did say, 'maybe my son is your ancestor to Kelly,' and that the Union clearly still exists, but a more salient question is Gordon's influence on his family goes down through the centuries to where the whole Krill and Kaylon mess is averted. 

Or not. As Ed and Kelly both pointed out, there was no way to know exactly how much damage had been done to the timeline or what kind of changes had occurred between 2015 and 2422. Four-hundred seven years is a long time. And Ed was correct in pointing out that Gordon's marriage and family in 2025 were a temporal paradox that shouldn't have existed because it was never supposed to have existed (what with Gordon actually having been born more than 300 years after Laura died).

Edited July 9, 2022 by legaleagle53

[ketose]

On 7/7/2022 at 8:41 PM, shapeshifter said:

With all that extra time they have, the party could have included an arm wrestling bit before Gordon's song. Talla and Isaac would be a good tossup for winner.

Isaac apparently arm wrestled Alara on a regular basis.

So, now the banana rotting device is the most powerful weapon in the galaxy. Does time travel happen so often that the Union has a rule about it or did they just watch a lot of Voyager episodes?

The episode would have been far less creepy if Ed and Kelly left and just told 2025 Gordon that they didn't want to see him in the history books, THEN went to 2015 without telling him. Then again, the sandwich thing pretty much highlighted that Gordon and Laura are in another quantum reality where they lived a full life together.

I've watched a lot of time travel shows and I think the ones who did it best were the movie Paycheck and 3 out of 4 seasons of Continuum.

[Bort]

20 minutes ago, ketose said:

The episode would have been far less creepy if Ed and Kelly left and just told 2025 Gordon that they didn't want to see him in the history books, THEN went to 2015 without telling him. Then again, the sandwich thing pretty much highlighted that Gordon and Laura are in another quantum reality where they lived a full life together.

I've watched a lot of time travel shows and I think the ones who did it best were the movie Paycheck and 3 out of 4 seasons of Continuum.

The thing is, it doesn’t really matter because in the end, it didn’t happen. So Gordon and Laura brooded about it for a few hours and then poof!

And 12 Monkeys. That’s hands down my favorite time travel show. It’s almost perfect.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

but a more salient question is Gordon's influence on his family goes down through the centuries to where the whole Krill and Kaylon mess is averted. 

Yes, I posited something like that upthread as well. 
Maybe at some point it will turn out that Isaac "knew" that had they left Gordon in the past, the Kaylon (and the Krill) would would have not grown to be life-threatening nemeses, but that Isaac's self-preservation programming prevented him from mentioning it. 
Interestingly, Charly's extra-dimensional perception abilities might have allowed her to calculate the same.
Perhaps in the final season they will insert Gordon back into the alternate timeline to save the Union.

Edited July 9, 2022 by shapeshifter

[Yeah No]

On 7/7/2022 at 8:46 AM, shapeshifter said:

More importantly, like Gordon said, the fact that the Orville crew were all still in tact meant he couldn't have screwed up the timeline too badly, and, by bringing him back, they may have just prevented the Krill and Kaylon from having never attained the will and power to annihilate the Union. I'm betting Gordon would have recorded journals for the 24th or whatever relevant century to learn from. 

I love a good time travel episode too, despite some of the impossibilities and this one didn't disappoint.  I wonder about the timeline because from the Orville's POV barely any time had passed so how much could have gotten screwed up from their perspective since Gordon went back in time?  I'm thinking not much and they would never have known it anyway because to them it would just be the way things were.  They will never know what potentially far reaching implications Gordon's presence in the 21st century would have if they didn't bring him back from 2015.  But since they did bring him back from 2015 nothing would have happened that shouldn't have happened, so even the Orville crew in their century wouldn't know what happened that shouldn't have.

On 7/7/2022 at 8:51 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I dunno, if I were Gordon, I would still be pissed that Ed and Kelly erased the life I had built with my dream girl and child. Or at least I wouldn't be super-chipper about them having done the right thing like Gordon was. At best I'd be like, "Man I know you did what you had to do, but that sucks."

But then I think Laura did take things in stride about Gordon being from the future. When you think about it, what Gordon did is actually super creepy. He took her cell phone and used data from it to create a simulation to figure out how to romance her, then used that knowledge to win her over at a huge information dissymmetry.

I don't think the Gordon that was rescued only a month after he got to 2015 could relate to himself 10 years in the future and that I think his reaction was actually very realistic.  For the Gordon of 2015 none of that ever really happened so he could remain detached from it.  And it was also realistic for Gordon's character to react the way he did.  He's not generally a very reflective type of person.  I would have rather seen a more philosophic attitude from him but that's not Gordon.  That's Jean Luc Picard.  Oh well.

What Gordon did to win Laura over sort-of reminded me of "Groundhog Day", which if you think about it is also super creepy, but somehow in its dated rom-com way at the time it came out was seen as super-romantic.  And still remembering what it was like in that bygone era, I kind of get it.  But from today's perspective, yeah, super creepy.

On 7/7/2022 at 6:45 PM, Lugal said:

It feels like they left it open, since earlier John and Isaac talked about a paradox and a superposition where everything is possible, so maybe 2025 Gordon got to continue on with his life.  I kinda hope so.

I thought this myself!  Can you really erase what's already happened and wouldn't it be possible somehow for that timeline to stay split off from the original restored one instead of just ceasing to exist as if it never happened?  Like remember that TNG episode with the two Rikers who split off into two different timelines and then came back together very different people in some ways?  That can also explain how different Gordon was 10 years after finding himself in 2015.  A person's experiences can really change them.

On 7/7/2022 at 9:36 PM, greekmom said:

I understand the difference between 2015 Gordon and 2025 Gordon. No one knows the suffering he had in the first 3 years all alone. And he had to hunt for food which would be totally alien Gordon is a sociable person, more so than other members of the crew.  I can see 2018 Gordon getting fed up about being saved and just saying "screw it" and living a life.  

Exactly!  What he lived through living alone in the woods hunting for his own food reminded me of the TV series "Alone", which I also watch.  That's a VERY tough existence, especially for someone who has never lived alone in the wild before and especially for 3 whole years!  Even trained survivalists have a hard time doing it and lose way too much weight just surviving on hunted food and foraging alone for a couple of months let alone years!  And that experience would have changed Gordon and made him feel that he only had one life and it wasn't worth sacrificing.

On 7/8/2022 at 12:15 AM, legaleagle53 said:

This was also a nod to both "The Inner Light" from TNG and "The City on the Edge of Forever" from TOS with Laura as Gordon's Edith Keeler.

And I did NOT have "Charly is an out and proud lesbian who was secretly in love with Amanda" on my bingo card, did you? It explains why she really hates Isaac and will never forgive him. Yes, she's still an annoying bitch whom I would love to slap 400 years into HER future, but at least the passion with which she hates Isaac is coming from an understandable place. It's just too bad that there's really nowhere for her to go in terms of growth.

Nope. It will still be fresh. Time-travel doesn't age or rejuvenate the people and things that are doing it. That's why the crew didn't go back to a point of non-existence as they traveled back to 2015/2025 or age 400 years during the return trip to 2422.

Yes, I saw the nod to "Inner Light" and "City on the Edge of Forever" too, but I'm not seeing Charly as necessarily a Lesbian but perhaps bisexual.  I guess we'll find out.

21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Sadly and embarrassingly for me, the cell phone video bit was barely familiar to me. A lot has happened IRL since "Lasting Impressions” aired in March 21, 2019.

Yes, I felt the same way and being in an older age bracket isn't exactly helping me remember it either.  If I had the time I'd have refreshed myself on earlier seasons but I didn't know there was going to be a quiz on them, LOL.

15 hours ago, greekmom said:

I was hoping for that too but I don't think 2025 Gordon would have integrated back on the Orville and as a Union officer as easily as 2015 Gordon.  I dunno, I feel there is a major gap there somewhere that something really bad happened to Gordon in those 3 years that made him give up on the temporal directive and just seek out a new life.

Yup, he would have integrated as poorly as that Riker that came back to the Enterprise after being away for however many years in an alternate timeline after a transporter malfunction sent him there.  I've already said that I think anyone living in the woods alone for 3 years would change their perspective on the temporal directive.  I think where he went too far perhaps was in having children which would have more far reaching effects than he alone could have produced just being a humble pilot living a low key life.  And I actually understand the Union and even Kelly and Ed being hard line about that, although they could have been more empathic about it and not told him their intentions to go back to 2015 to get him.  That was unnecessarily cruel.  

I actually think Kelly and Ed would have done better to wait until they found out if Isaac and Charly were successful first before confronting Gordon.  Why they needed to do that is beyond me, but I guess it makes good TV drama.  Wait until you absolutely have no choice but to confront him before going in gangbusters and crushing the guy and his family.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Yeah No

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Yes, I felt the same way and being in an older age bracket isn't exactly helping me remember it either.  If I had the time I'd have refreshed myself on earlier seasons but I didn't know there was going to be a quiz on them, LOL.

21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Sadly and embarrassingly for me, the cell phone video bit was barely familiar to me. A lot has happened IRL since "Lasting Impressions” aired in March 21, 2019.

🤣👍

13 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I actually think Kelly and Ed would have done better to wait until they found out if Isaac and Charly were successful first before confronting Gordon.  Why they needed to do that is beyond me, but I guess it makes good TV drama.  Wait until you absolutely have no choice but to confront him before going in gangbusters and crushing the guy and his family.

I guess I missed that?!? Ed and Kelly were ready to pluck Gordon off of 2025 earth and fly away even if they couldn't time travel? I will try to rewatch at least that part, but, anyway, I think I smell some fanfictions cooking out there. 

[Yeah No]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess I missed that?!? Ed and Kelly were ready to pluck Gordon off of 2025 earth and fly away even if they couldn't time travel? I will try to rewatch at least that part, but, anyway, I think I smell some fanfictions cooking out there. 

At the time they were confronting him they would have at least known there was some possibility of being able to time travel to 2015 if they got that substance they needed (forget the name now) so why did they need to confront him and pressure him to leave until they knew they had no other choice but to take him from 2025?  Otherwise, wait until they know they had the substance and go directly to 2015 without even letting him know they were there.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Yeah No

[Bort]

6 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess I missed that?!? Ed and Kelly were ready to pluck Gordon off of 2025 earth and fly away even if they couldn't time travel? I will try to rewatch at least that part, but, anyway, I think I smell some fanfictions cooking out there. 

They probably just would’ve made Gordon live with them on The Orville and flown away from earth to live out their lives — or John would’ve ended up thinking of the other way to time travel eventually anyway. Either way, Ed and Kelly were determined to remove Gordon from earth.

Also, that Riker thing was him duplicated as a transporter accident. There was no alt timeline involved there.