Ghosts of Housewives Past: Jill Zarin, Alex, and the Rest

[Baltimore Betty]

I happened to see a few minutes of and old RHoNY this morning, the scene where Simon is surprising Alex for her birthday and he is having a melt down in the limo about how the driver is ruining the surprise...priceless. 

[racked]

I happened to see a few minutes of and old RHoNY this morning, the scene where Simon is surprising Alex for her birthday and he is having a melt down in the limo about how the driver is ruining the surprise...priceless. 

 

This memory almost makes me miss them. They were so over the top ridiculous and try-hard, I loved it. 

[archer1267]

I happened to see a few minutes of and old RHoNY this morning, the scene where Simon is surprising Alex for her birthday and he is having a melt down in the limo about how the driver is ruining the surprise...priceless.

 

 

Didn't he segue into singing "Pop Goes the Weasel" from there, too? That was some crazy shit. For anyone who wants to revisit at least part of the meltdown, it's here!

[AKA...CJ86]

As time goes by, I like to look at Alex and Simon as Salahi-lite, ETA: or maybe the Pre-Salahi: Salahi's.

Edited March 31, 2015 by CyberJawa1986

[Satchels of gold]

YOU'RE RUINING THE FUCKING SURPRISE

[ryebread]

I can't load the video but IIRC, Alex looked almost frantic.  Side-eyeing Simon while reaching for the door handle.  Getting ready to jump, tuck and roll.

[archer1267]

Ick….so I went to Bravo, hoping to find the "First Look" clip, and on the front page there's not one but TWO pieces relating to Jill Zarin. One is about Jill hosting the "best passover ever" and the other is Jill's update on the feud with Bethenny (the Zarins ran into her at an event and all was good). 

 

WTH? I've never seen the Bravo page mention a former housewife once she's been cut…and especially, not one that was cut a couple of seasons ago. Not without context, at least. I mean, Jeana Keough and Lauri Waring have both popped up on RHOOC since leaving, and Kelly came back to walk in LuAnn's charity fashion show (so it would make sense for Bravo to mention them and start the excitement machine running for their returns). But I don't see any reason for Jill to be featured on RHONY's Bravo page….unless (gulp) she is making a "surprise" appearance this season.

Edited April 6, 2015 by archer1267

[KFC]

I'm not gonna lie, I'd be really interested to see a Jill cameo. She's one of those glorious trainwrecks that you can't help but be drawn to. For the sake of everyone else involved, I'm glad she isn't a regular cast member again, but I won't deny the woman made for some edge-of-your-popcorn-bowl TV.

[SCS]

I'm not gonna lie, I'd be really interested to see a Jill cameo. She's one of those glorious trainwrecks that you can't help but be drawn to. For the sake of everyone else involved, I'm glad she isn't a regular cast member again, but I won't deny the woman made for some edge-of-your-popcorn-bowl TV.

Yes. Also Bravo knows it would be a ratings-thru-the-roof bonanza if Zarin made an appearance, which makes me wonder if we will be seeing her in some capacity.

[ryebread]

I've always thought he'd bring Jill back in some capacity.  He'll do anything for money.  She'll do anything for exposure.

[Maharincess]

Well, clearly you are a kind person & kind people see the good in others when it may not be there. B is NOT kind -- she's nasty as fuck. And she meant it as a nasty tasteless joke. Dat's Bethenny's sense of humor. Welcome back, B. While I haven't missed ya, I did find ya entertaining sometimes so let's see how it works out

This is from a while back but I'm just catching up here.

Can I ask how you know what Bethenny meant? Unless you are her, there's no possible way that anybody could know what she meant with that comment.

You may think you know what she meant but you don't know.

 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Lisin
Snark the show, not each other

[ScoobieDoobs]

Yes. Also Bravo knows it would be a ratings-thru-the-roof bonanza if Zarin made an appearance, which makes me wonder if we will be seeing her in some capacity.

 

 

Would it be a ratings boost to bring Jillzy back -- or merely a yawn?  I'm not sure.  It's always been my hunch, Andy can't stand her at this point & doesn't trust her or wanna deal with her manipulations & nonsense.  But if he really did think she'd make a difference with ratings, I'd think he'd consider bringing her back -- even on a limited basis.

 

The thing is, I don't think bringing Jill back is gonna be necessary to boost ratings.  I might be wrong, but it looks like from the previews, Beth & the new gal are giving a much needed reinvigoration to what had been a bore-fest last season.

 

It's time for Kelly's annual banging hot body in a bikini on the beach. Oh for fricks sake. Kelly please stop wearing bikini's. You have vaginal rolls falling out the bottom. That is the weirdest thing I have ever seen.

 

You beat me to posting that.  Wow, those Kelly-in-a-teeny-bikini shots (which seem to be in Daily Mail -- er, daily) are really grossing me out.  What does Kelly see when she looks in the mirror?  The young model from 25 years ago?  Look, I'm not gonna bash an older woman for pretty much looking like an older woman.  She's in great shape for a woman her age, but she ain't a 20 year old model.  She looks like a woman her age in good shape.  

 

These kind of shots of a nearly 50 year old woman in a teeny tiny bikini are not flattering.  Her skin looks leathery, her hair looks fried, her knees look wrinkly & her middle is shaped in a way that makes her figure look wonky in a tiny bikini.  She might have taken great shots in nothing but teeny bikinis 25 years ago, but those days are over, Kelly.  

 

Sheesh, it's not that big a deal.  She's showing signs of her age, which could be easily camouflaged & she'd look a zillion times better in pics if she'd cover up a bit or wear more flattering & more age-appropriate swimwear.  She just seems so strangely deluded -- as usual.  Ah, but that's Kelly.  The real question is why the heck is Daily Mail feeding into Kelly's delusions by saying how incredible she looks?

Edited April 7, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[SCS]

Heh, I just checked out Jill's Passover link in archer1267's post above. Seeing Streits Matzo prominently labeled in the images and hashtagged on Instagram hums "endorsement deal" in my cynical little ear. Oh, Jill, younze one tough bidness woman.

[Sun-Bun]

Would it be a ratings boost to bring Jillzy back -- or merely a yawn? I'm not sure. It's always been my hunch, Andy can't stand her at this point & doesn't trust her or wanna deal with her manipulations & nonsense. But if he really did think she'd make a difference with ratings, I'd think he'd consider bringing her back -- even on a limited basis.

The thing is, I don't think bringing Jill back is gonna be necessary to boost ratings. I might be wrong, but it looks like from the previews, Beth & the new gal are giving a much needed reinvigoration to what had been a bore-fest last season.

You beat me to posting that. Wow, those Kelly-in-a-teeny-bikini shots (which seem to be in Daily Mail -- er, daily) are really grossing me out. What does Kelly see when she looks in the mirror? The young model from 25 years ago? Look, I'm not gonna bash an older woman for pretty much looking like an older woman. She's in great shape for a woman her age, but she ain't a 20 year old model. She looks like a woman her age in good shape.

These kind of shots of a nearly 50 year old woman in a teeny tiny bikini are not flattering. Her skin looks leathery, her hair looks fried, her knees look wrinkly & her middle is shaped in a way that makes her figure look wonky in a tiny bikini. She might have taken great shots in nothing but teeny bikinis 25 years ago, but those days are over, Kelly.

Sheesh, it's not that big a deal. She's showing signs of her age, which could be easily camouflaged & she'd look a zillion times better in pics if she'd cover up a bit or wear more flattering & more age-appropriate swimwear. She just seems so strangely deluded -- as usual. Ah, but that's Kelly. The real question is why the heck is Daily Mail feeding into Kelly's delusions by saying how incredible she looks?

Yeeeeshhh...she seriously looks like a tranny in those pics. Her body just has the most oddly manly shape(ditto her manface/thick-neck/big hands), and those teeny-weeny bikinis do nothing to help things.

I wish she'd soften her look a bit---wear some make-up with a bit of color, work out less so she won't have those thick muscles bulging, change up her hair and maybe add some highlights. Quit wearing bikinis that make her look like Jim Carrey as bodybuilder Vera DiMilo. A nice make-under would do her wonders.

Also, maybe a really good shrink to help tone the crazy down too.

[slade3]

I watched the RHNY for the first time last season and I'm now trying to catch up on the other seasons thanks to Bravo's marathon. I'm on season 3 now. (Unfortunately, Bravo started season 4 at episode 11 and didn't bother to air season 5.)

 

I like Jill. But I've always read that she's awful. Can someone fill me in why? I think Ramona is just the worst human being ever (not to mention mentally unstable), so I'm confused why so many people seem to like Ramona and hate Jill. Is there a major thing Jill did that freaked people out?

[Sun-Bun]

I watched the RHNY for the first time last season and I'm now trying to catch up on the other seasons thanks to Bravo's marathon. I'm on season 3 now. (Unfortunately, Bravo started season 4 at episode 11 and didn't bother to air season 5.)

I like Jill. But I've always read that she's awful. Can someone fill me in why? I think Ramona is just the worst human being ever (not to mention mentally unstable), so I'm confused why so many people seem to like Ramona and hate Jill. Is there a major thing Jill did that freaked people out?

Watch season 4 and you'll *totally* get it. Breaking the ladies up into teams, creating a faux fight with Bethenny for a big story(unbeknownst to poor Beth), icing out Alex, etc...she's an evil, manipulative famewhore.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Heh, I just checked out Jill's Passover link in archer1267's post above. Seeing Streits Matzo prominently labeled in the images and hashtagged on Instagram hums "endorsement deal" in my cynical little ear. Oh, Jill, younze one tough bidness woman.

 

Noooo, not Streit's!!  That's my preferred brand of kosher for Passover matzoh and if Jill has an endorsement deal with them I may have to rethink that strategy next year!

[slade3]

Watch season 4 and you'll *totally* get it. Breaking the ladies up into teams, creating a faux fight with Bethenny for a big story(unbeknownst to poor Beth), icing out Alex, etc...she's an evil, manipulative famewhore.

Thanks. A friend who has watched the show since it started told me Jill is crazy, but wasn't really able to explain why. One of those "She's just crazy, you have to watch" answers. So I've been very curious since she seems delightful to me. (Maybe because I'm a New Yorker and have grown up around people like her - not as wealthy/interested in fame, but nosy and pushy fast talkers.) Since I don't have the first 10 episodes of season 4, I'll have to consider doing a trial on Hulu. I simply can't see myself paying the 1.99 per episode that Amazon wants and waiting another year for the next marathon seems silly.

[MatildaMoody]

Thanks. A friend who has watched the show since it started told me Jill is crazy, but wasn't really able to explain why. One of those "She's just crazy, you have to watch" answers. So I've been very curious since she seems delightful to me. (Maybe because I'm a New Yorker and have grown up around people like her - not as wealthy/interested in fame, but nosy and pushy fast talkers.) Since I don't have the first 10 episodes of season 4, I'll have to consider doing a trial on Hulu. I simply can't see myself paying the 1.99 per episode that Amazon wants and waiting another year for the next marathon seems silly.

You should really start with Season 3. That is where Jill's progression from pushy gabby but basically harmless to manipulative and over the top ridiculous mean girl begins. She went into Season 3 wanting to create a dramatic storyline, so she blew a minor disagreement she had with Bethenny into this huge fight and even saved a voicemail for several months so that she could play it on the show to back up her point. She did everything she could to divide everyone into teams, you were either on her team or you were on Bethenny's team. That team themed behavior was even worse in Season 4.

[archer1267]

Would it be a ratings boost to bring Jillzy back -- or merely a yawn?  I'm not sure.  It's always been my hunch, Andy can't stand her at this point & doesn't trust her or wanna deal with her manipulations & nonsense.

 

 

Which is why I was surprised to see a couple of items featuring Jill on Bravo's Daily Dish. I figured she was persona non grata at the network.

 

The notion of bringing Jill back for an appearance, just because Bethenny's on the show again, is ludicrous. Season 3 aired in the spring of 2010, which means that the actual events happened sometime in 2009. Would Bravo be so desperate that they would want to resurrect something that happened over 5 years ago??? Both women have presumably moved on. Bringing Jill back would be contrived and anti-climactic. Both women would be like, "I wish you nothing but the best yada yada" and that would be that.

 

If I cared enough about Jill I'd be following her on social media. I don't need her to pop up on RHONY.

[ScoobieDoobs]

So I've been very curious since she seems delightful to me.

 

 

Then you're not getting the full picture of who she is.  She's manipulative, phony & actually quite nasty at her core.  My theory is Andy is testing her out -- to see if he can trust her to come back.  She admitted outright to faking her "fight" with Bethenny, which was pretty much the biggest storyline of season 3.  I suspect this concerns Andy cuz if he lets her back on, he'll run the risk of her faking more stuff & trying to manipulate the show in a way he and the other producers will not be able to control.  From Andy's standpoint, bringing her back is definitely risky.

 

But I can see why you liked her in the first few seasons, she was kinda fun to watch.  Not sure what happened.  Maybe she always was nasty & she merely hid her true personality.  Or maybe being on the show threw her ego overboard, but her behavior took a sharp turn into downright meanness -- and not in a fun way.  She just seemed like a self-absorbed, very nasty woman.  She was pretty awful to both Bethenny & Alex, and they didn't do anything to provoke her nastiness.

 

If I cared enough about Jill I'd be following her on social media. I don't need her to pop up on RHONY

 

.

I'm indifferent to whether she comes back or not, but I did kinda like her exchanges with the Moaner.  Those could be kinda fun.  Otherwise, I don't care anything about Jillzy.

Edited April 7, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[slade3]

You should really start with Season 3. That is where Jill's progression from pushy gabby but basically harmless to manipulative and over the top ridiculous mean girl begins. She went into Season 3 wanting to create a dramatic storyline, so she blew a minor disagreement she had with Bethenny into this huge fight and even saved a voicemail for several months so that she could play it on the show to back up her point. She did everything she could to divide everyone into teams, you were either on her team or you were on Bethenny's team. That team themed behavior was even worse in Season 4.

I'm watching season 3 now. As I mentioned, I started watching last season when Jill was gone. I'd seen her once on WWHL when she accused Andy of liking Bethenny more because he'd gone out to eat with her, or something, but I didn't know what they were talking about. But since I haven't finished season 3 yet, right now, Jill seems more entertaining and watchable than Sonja, Aviva (who I'm glad has been fired) and Ramona. I actually thought the show was uninteresting in season 6, but now that I'm watching the early seasons, I understand why my friend is into it.

 

To be honest, while I find Simon and Alex a bit eye-rollingly ridiculous, I find them more watchable than Sonja and Ramona. And, I think Ramona's crazy is way easier to stomach with the earlier cast than with the current cast. I hate to write that because I actually like Heather and Carole, but the early seasons seem way more entertaining to me.

 

Then you're not getting the full picture of who she is.  She's manipulative, phony & actually quite nasty at her core.  My theory is Andy is testing her out -- to see if he can trust her to come back.  She admitted outright to faking her "fight" with Bethenny, which was pretty much the biggest storyline of season 3.  I suspect this concerns Andy cuz if he lets her back on, he'll run the risk of her faking more stuff & trying to manipulate the show in a way he and the other producers will not be able to control.  From Andy's standpoint, bringing her back is definitely risky.

 

 

I'm sorry to read that.  While I kind of understood where Jill was coming from with Bethenny, and I believed Alex was in the wrong (because Luann started that stuff about the kids, and I know women like Alex who are ultra sensitive about people pointing out that their ill-behaved children are ill-behaved), I could see a problem with Jill's e-mail to Kelly and just how domineering Jill is with her friends.

Edited April 7, 2015 by slade3

[Lakewood27]

I always thought it wasn't so much Jill's manipulations and caustic personality, it was her attempts to try and produce the show, without being asked, that got her fired from the network. Showing up at their offices unannounced, with her own storylines and suggestions was too much for Andy. Personally, I'm glad she's gone. But if she made some cameos this season, I wouldn't turn the channel.

 

RE: Kelly's bikini body. Every since Ramona made a point of mentioning Kelly's lopsided tit job, I can't unsee it. Not to mention the refridgerator box torso and over-tanned skin.

 

 

 

ScoobieDoobs, on 07 Apr 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:
But I can see why you liked her in the first few seasons, she was kinda fun to watch.  Not sure what happened.  Maybe she always was nasty & she merely hide her true personality.  Or maybe being on the show threw her ego overboard, but her behavior took a sharp turn into downright meanness -- and not in a fun way.  She just seemed like a self-absorbed, very nasty woman.  She was pretty awful to both Bethenny & Alex, and they didn't do anything to provoke her nastiness.

 

I started this series at season 3. I had no preconceived notions about any of the women because I didn't read/post about it on TWoP. My introduction to Jill was the saved voice-mail incident. I was like, "who saves a voice-mail for 6 months in order to torture a pregnant woman, who has just lost her father?" By the time she crashed Scary Island, only to be met by deafening silence and downcast eyes, I was completely over Jill. Couldn't stand her. And then she doubled-down on her nasty behaviour in season 4.
.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Lakewood27

[MatildaMoody]

Another thing about Jill. Amazon-gate! I think that may have been one of the biggest blunders of all time by ANY Housewife. The internet almost ate her alive over that one. 

[Babyfoot]

I watched the first four seasons religiously and watched the later seasons much more intermittently. I've always found Jill's brand of dreadful more more palatable and watchable than Ramona's. I don't think Jill's on show antics are any worse than any of the other "housewives" but believe that she simply wore Andy out with her off camera demands/shenanigans/lunacy. No there's some lost footage I'm dying to see.

[Lisin]

Just a reminder, to please snark the show not each other. If your whole comment is just picking apart someone else's comment and not about how you feel about the show it probably isn't necessary. 

[ryebread]

Would Bravo be so desperate that they would want to resurrect something that happened over 5 years ago???

 

Yes. 

 

But I think they're going to get good ratings this season, so hopefully they aren't desperate enough to do so in the following season. 

 

And I would imagine, with the Second Coming of Bethenny, that if she said, 'No, Jill', there would be no Jill.

[archer1267]

My introduction to Jill was the saved voice-mail incident.

 

 

Jill + phone was a dangerous combination. I remember two incidents of her putting someone on speaker phone without telling them who was present (and in each case, it was LuAnn - so much for the doyenne of etiquette announcing herself when Jill did not). In the first case, it was Ramona, who predictably said something unfiltered about LuAnn's marriage, and in the second case, it was Bethenny, wanting to talk to Jill about their fight.

 

I get that speakerphones are used pretty commonly on reality shows, but not telling someone that there are other people present is just wrong.

 

Oh, and Jill didn't just save a voice mail - she kept notes of interactions and slights. That's why she said (after the fact) she didn't want to talk to Bethenny when Ramona tried getting them together - "I didn't have my notes. I wasn't prepared."

[MatildaMoody]

You know when you look at Jill's "Greatest Hits" as in the moments when she was at her worst, I think a lot of people automatically go to the faking a fight with Bethenny without telling her that was what was happening. But, for me, I think the worst thing that Jill ever did truly was how she behaved in relation to Bethenny's father being ill and eventually dying. 

 

Alex sat Jill down and told her that Bethenny needed support and that if there was any chance of them rekindling their friendship, that was the time because Beth's father was extremely ill. Jill was too invested in the fight story line, to let it go that early in filming so she brushed it off as "Bethenny doesn't get along with her father anyway." But, she was obviously gossiping about Bethenny's dad because of the scene when Ramona informs the group that he had died.

 

Watch that scene closely. Jill already knew that he had died and she went off on Ramona for not responding to the email/text that she sent telling her. We know that she knew because she sent Alex a similar text. But, at that party, she was ranting and raving at Ramona for not telling her. She was making Bethenny's dad's death all about her and how she wasn't the one to get credit for breaking the news on camera. 

 

When Alex comes in and tells Jill that she got her text, watch that smug smile on Jill's face. Then watch it fade as Alex reads her the riot act for gossiping about this and calling her a mean girl. For me, that nailed just how awful Jill was and she could never come back from that in my mind. 

 

And then the next season when she blamed Ramona for the decline of her friendship with Bethenny, when it was Ramona who tried during season 3 to get them back together. I agreed with Ramona that Jill most likely would have made up with Bethenny in that meeting if Luann hadn't hustled her out of there for the "waiting car."

 

I always thought it was weird that both Alex and Ramona tried to get Jill to see reason, that Bethenny apologized to Jill multiple times, and through it all Jill stubbornly stuck to that fight story line. I think she wanted to be the one to set the terms for them making up and she couldn't do that unless all of the women were on her side first. And when that didn't happen, she realized (way too late) that she had made a mistake. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

I always thought it wasn't so much Jill's manipulations and caustic personality, it was her attempts to try and produce the show, without being asked, that got her fired from the network. Showing up at their offices unannounced, with her own storylines and suggestions was too much for Andy. Personally, I'm glad she's gone. But if she made some cameos this season, I wouldn't turn the channel.

 

 

I guess it's easy for us as viewers to believe Andy when he tells us Jill & Aviva were given the boot because they weren't popular with viewers.  With Aviva, it was certainly true -- that viewers mostly didn't care for her.  To hear Jill tell it, she'll babble about all her Twitter followers, who we're to assume are fans.  Maybe she bought those followers & maybe she didn't.

 

While we don't know all what's going on behind the scenes, we do know some stuff.  Both Jill & Aviva were enormous PITA's to Andy & the producers.  They both buried themselves.  Would Aviva have gotten the boot anyway, even if she displayed a harmless persona on the show?  With Jill it was much more complicated.  She became insidious.  They had to get rid of her.  I'm only baffled why they'd even consider bringing her back -- or if they even are.  

 

What I'd like to know is why Jill is being allowed back onto Bravo in dribs & drabs, but not allowed back onto the show she so obviously & so desperately wants to be on.  First, those lame appearances on Millionaire Matchmaker, pitifully shilling her poor daughter & then pretending to be the gal-pal of whacked-out Dina Lohan.  And now this stuff on the Bravo site of her Passover Seder -- as if I could care less to see this.  I mean really -- WTF?

[ScoobieDoobs]

You know when you look at Jill's "Greatest Hits" as in the moments when she was at her worst, I think a lot of people automatically go to the faking a fight with Bethenny without telling her that was what was happening

 

 

I didn't think Jill faking the fight with Beth was all that bad -- from our standpoint as viewers.  Jill certainly did meaner stuff on the show.  I was thinking in terms of what the producers thought.  Jill created all this crap & made such a big huge deal out of it, that it took up all of that season & pretty much wasted it.  Basically, she took control of the show & re-directed it with what was a fake storyline.  Nobody else on the show seemed to be aware this was fake crap.  Only she knew it & she was playing everyone.  It was annoying, to say the least.  And Andy must have been pissed as hell to find this out.  Not so much for the fakeness of the Jill/Bethenny fight (only on Jill's side), but that Jill was taking control of the show.

[archer1267]

Speaking of Season 3 and former besties, whatever happened to Ramona's friend with the long dark hair? I'm trying to remember her name. She was here and there in the first couple of seasons. I remember her being on that boat cruise with Ramona when Jill and LuAnn couldn't stop picking at her. When Ramona brought out rings from her new jewelry collection, Jill grumbled to this same friend of Ramona's that if it were HER collection, she would tell her friends to each pick a ring as a gift.

 

Ramona's dark-haired friend then shared a "Ramona's so cheap" anecdote: she and Ramona had gone out for dinner earlier in the week and RAMONA ASKED FOR SEPARATE CHECKS. (LOL! As if Ramona did something truly awful, like cheat with a friend's husband.) Of course Jill ate it up. As I watched that, I couldn't help but think that once Ramona saw that conversation, the dark-haired friend would probably be history.

 

And I haven't seen her on the show since.

 

Is this ringing bells for anyone else?

[comatoast]

Speaking of Season 3 and former besties, whatever happened to Ramona's friend with the long dark hair? I'm trying to remember her name. She was here and there in the first couple of seasons. I remember her being on that boat cruise with Ramona when Jill and LuAnn couldn't stop picking at her. When Ramona brought out rings from her new jewelry collection, Jill grumbled to this same friend of Ramona's that if it were HER collection, she would tell her friends to each pick a ring as a gift.

 

Ramona's dark-haired friend then shared a "Ramona's so cheap" anecdote: she and Ramona had gone out for dinner earlier in the week and RAMONA ASKED FOR SEPARATE CHECKS. (LOL! As if Ramona did something truly awful, like cheat with a friend's husband.) Of course Jill ate it up. As I watched that, I couldn't help but think that once Ramona saw that conversation, the dark-haired friend would probably be history.

 

And I haven't seen her on the show since.

 

Is this ringing bells for anyone else?

Yeah, I don't think we've seen her since that season! For some reason, I'm thinking her name was Joni.

[KFC]

I think Jill's biggest faux pas was how she handled that one-on-one interview with Andy on WWHL a while back. I totally think he was testing the waters to see if she'd behave, but alas, Jill went from bad to worse. She recorded the whole interview without his consent and then proceeded to tell various media outlets that she had done so because she didn't trust his editing.

 

A few people have touched on this in previous RHONY discussions, but I think it bears repeating: I'm not entirely sure Jill fabricated the fight with Bethenny. That is, I agree she created a storyline on her own, for the cameras, without really consulting with anyone else. But... I totally think Jill really was pissed at Bethenny. She more or less admitted to being jealous that Bethenny had her own show and that she was resentful of Bethenny getting things (invites, offers, deals) that Jill was not.

 

While I do think there's some truth to Jill trying to create/dictate her own storylines, part of me feels like that "it was fake" claim was her mea culpa and to save face for the fact that she really WAS jealous and pissed off at Bethenny and was trying to use the fight to get back at her/make her pay for not taking her along on the spinoff, etc.

[Grneyedldy]

I think Jill's biggest faux pas was how she handled that one-on-one interview with Andy on WWHL a while back. I totally think he was testing the waters to see if she'd behave, but alas, Jill went from bad to worse. She recorded the whole interview without his consent and then proceeded to tell various media outlets that she had done so because she didn't trust his editing.

 

A few people have touched on this in previous RHONY discussions, but I think it bears repeating: I'm not entirely sure Jill fabricated the fight with Bethenny. That is, I agree she created a storyline on her own, for the cameras, without really consulting with anyone else. But... I totally think Jill really was pissed at Bethenny. She more or less admitted to being jealous that Bethenny had her own show and that she was resentful of Bethenny getting things (invites, offers, deals) that Jill was not.

 

While I do think there's some truth to Jill trying to create/dictate her own storylines, part of me feels like that "it was fake" claim was her mea culpa and to save face for the fact that she really WAS jealous and pissed off at Bethenny and was trying to use the fight to get back at her/make her pay for not taking her along on the spinoff, etc.

Yes I totally agree that Jill's original goal was to take Bethenny down.....trying to get everyone to "freeze" her out. Playing that stupid message and using Bobby's thyroid cancer to guilt B. Poor, poor Jill the wheels came completely off the track and the more she tried to fix it, the worse it got. Remember there was proof that Jill was out of town partying while poor Bobby lay dying without so much as a card from B. Never mind the flowers B sent. Jill was so jealous I'm sure she was pissing green. She probably hired a consultant to come up with the fake fight storyline. How many times did she make Andy acknowledge her big plot? In the end Jill got everything she deserved.

So with that said, if they brought Jill back for anything more than a fame whorish cameo, I would quit watching. Her last season grated on my nerves so much I FF during a lot of the shows.

[archer1267]

I think Jill's biggest faux pas was how she handled that one-on-one interview with Andy on WWHL a while back. I totally think he was testing the waters to see if she'd behave, but alas, Jill went from bad to worse. She recorded the whole interview without his consent and then proceeded to tell various media outlets that she had done so because she didn't trust his editing.

 

Oh my God, that's right! I'd forgotten that and how, well, UNCOOL that was.

 

 I'm not entirely sure Jill fabricated the fight with Bethenny. That is, I agree she created a storyline on her own, for the cameras, without really consulting with anyone else. But... I totally think Jill really was pissed at Bethenny.

 

I've watched the Season 3 reunion recently and think you're right. Andy said something to Jill like "wait, you guys were really in a fight then?" and I thought it was a weird thing to say...like, hello, isn't this allegedly unscripted TV? why should it be a revelation that the fight was real? Andy broke the 4th wall for a quick moment and seemed surprised that the fight wasn't just contrived for a dramatic story line.

[QuinnM]

 

I've watched the Season 3 reunion recently and think you're right. Andy said something to Jill like "wait, you guys were really in a fight then?" and I thought it was a weird thing to say...like, hello, isn't this allegedly unscripted TV? why should it be a revelation that the fight was real? Andy broke the 4th wall for a quick moment and seemed surprised that the fight wasn't just contrived for a dramatic story line

 

During the WWHL one on one with Jill Andy recounted Jill coming into his office and pitching the story line and how he told Jill not to do it that it just wasn't a good idea.  Jill didn't correct him just said, I know, I know.  So he thought it was a fake fight and then at the reunion was shocked that it was real.  

[archer1267]

LOL! I think I'm remembering little bits of that now. Didn't Jill say something crazy like the fight was fabricated, but she forgot to tell Bethenny that critical point? 

 

If that's the case, what was Jill thinking? that she could just yell "April Fool!" at the end of filming and all would be okay?

 

[KFC]

See, that's why I think the fight wasn't completely fabricated. I view it more as Jill's passive-aggressive way of getting "back" at Bethenny and trying to punish her. Had Bethenny not garnered so much sympathy from the viewing audience at the time, I'm sure Jill would have been more than happy to continue her vendetta against Bethenny and continue to punish her for whatever perceived wrongs were committed against Jill.

[Cherrio]

Another thing about Jill. Amazon-gate! I think that may have been one of the biggest blunders of all time by ANY Housewife. The internet almost ate her alive over that one. 

I remember that. 

          I think Jill was just as bad in Season 1.   Her behavior started instantly with the why didn't Ramona invite me to the cooking party?  Then her crazy attempts at manipulating the tennis game.   It started and then never stopped. All she had left was the no personality, passive aggressive Countless to hang around with.

[archer1267]

LOL! NY Magazine's recaps are always my favorite. Here's an excerpt:

 

"The big news, of course, is that Bethenny Frankel, the skinny girl herself, is back on the show. Can you feel that? Can you feel the throbbing, searing hatred just emanating from an apartment on the Upper East Side? No, that is not Madonna pissed off that there still isn’t any plastic surgery to make her pterodactyl claws look any younger. That is Jill Zarin pulsating with seething rage that Bethenny is back on the show and she is sitting on her couch drinking her 18th Diet Coke of the day."

[essexjan]

See, that's why I think the fight wasn't completely fabricated. I view it more as Jill's passive-aggressive way of getting "back" at Bethenny and trying to punish her. Had Bethenny not garnered so much sympathy from the viewing audience at the time, I'm sure Jill would have been more than happy to continue her vendetta against Bethenny and continue to punish her for whatever perceived wrongs were committed against Jill.

 

I think that the crux of this for me was that, as far as Bethenney was concerned, she had what she thought was a genuine friendship with Jill. The scenes where they hung out together at Jill's apartment, Bethenney putting on the wig, hanging out with Ally - there was a warmth and a closeness between them that I don't think was faked. I also think that, because of her abrasive personality, Bethenney hadn't had many close girlfriends in the past. So she relished and cherished her friendship with Jill.

 

As much as Bethenney annoys me, I felt sorry for her when Jill turned on her. Bethenney's bewilderment was tangible and I'm sure she was genuinely hurt. So although I'm sure a lot of viewers didn't like Bethenney, I think people recognised how badly Jill had behaved and that she'd crossed a line.

 

I also liked Simon and Alex, despite their pretentions. Alex in particular grew on me in her later seasons and she was often the Only Voice of Reason amongst all the craziness. Simon also managed to learn to take himself a little less seriously, which made him more likeable.

[FozzyBear]

I think that the crux of this for me was that, as far as Bethenney was concerned, she had what she thought was a genuine friendship with Jill. The scenes where they hung out together at Jill's apartment, Bethenney putting on the wig, hanging out with Ally - there was a warmth and a closeness between them that I don't think was faked. I also think that, because of her abrasive personality, Bethenney hadn't had many close girlfriends in the past. So she relished and cherished her friendship with Jill.

As much as Bethenney annoys me, I felt sorry for her when Jill turned on her. Bethenney's bewilderment was tangible and I'm sure she was genuinely hurt. So although I'm sure a lot of viewers didn't like Bethenney, I think people recognised how badly Jill had behaved and that she'd crossed a line.

I also liked Simon and Alex, despite their pretentions. Alex in particular grew on me in her later seasons and she was often the Only Voice of Reason amongst all the craziness. Simon also managed to learn to take himself a little less seriously, which made him more likeable.

I think the argument was real, kind of, in the sense they went through a period where they had some tiffs and got a little annoyed with each-other, but then Jill decided to use it to drum up a story for herself (she really had nothing else going on. I mean, ice skating?) and make Beth look bad and possibly make Bravo rethink her solo spin-off as a show dedicated to Jill and Bethanny making up. I think at some point between the show down at Ramona's apartment and the party where Beth and Jason announced their engagement, Beth found out that Jill was pushing the argument for a story line. I think more so than the argument itself, this fake fight business was what Beth couldn't forgive. I think she could have worked past a real fight, even a nasty one, but finding out it was all for show was too much for her. I always sort of wondered if the fight with Jill had something to do with Beth accepting Jason's proposal. I would guess the thing with Jill cut close to Beth feeling like her parent's were only interested in her at their convenience (accurate or not I get the impression this is the crux of Beth's issues with them) and for Jill to pull a similar thing may have felt like another abandonment. Then there is Jason promising to make a family with her and the safety of that must have been really tempting even if she was having misgivings about the relationship.

For Jill's part I don't think she meant for it to go down like that. I'm sure she thought she could just back track whenever she wanted and Beth would understand that Jill was just hustling. No harm, no foul. She just didn't really think it through.

[archer1267]

I should point that as much as Jill annoyed me over the seasons, she seems to have done a good job with her daughter. Ally always seemed like a sweet, level-headed kid, and I can't imagine her getting into social hierarchy/clique games the way her mom did. She seemed a bit self-conscious about her weight at times, but I thought she was gorgeous.

[theironwoman]

I decided to rewatch the first two seasons and I had forgotten what a bottomless pit of need Jill was. Good lord, all the stuff in the world could never fill the hole in her self-esteem. Looking back, Alex was right: she really should have written "I'm good enough" on her mirror.

 

Kelly seems only capable of communicating on a strictly superficial level and even then she doesn't seem to be able to fully comprehend the other person (e.g. assuming an interviewer is asking about tattoos when they mention reading Girl With the Dragon Tattoo). Any conversation that dips into any depth causes her to just completly flail.

[theironwoman]

I decided to rewatch the first two seasons and I had forgotten what a bottomless pit of need Jill was. Good lord, all the stuff in the world could never fill the hole in her self-esteem. Looking back, Alex was right: she really should have written "I'm good enough" on her mirror. She was so hard on everyone for every perceived slight but was the quickest to scream about not being perfect if anyone tried to call her on her own terrible behavior.

 

Kelly seems only capable of communicating on a strictly superficial level and even then she doesn't seem to be able to fully comprehend the other person (e.g. assuming an interviewer is asking about tattoos when they mention reading Girl With the Dragon Tattoo). Any conversation that dips into any depth causes her to just completly flail.

Edited April 14, 2015 by theironwoman

[swankie]

Am watching the reruns of Scary Island.  Kelly is really and truly having a nervous breakdown in front of our eyes.  She breaks out crying because Bethenny gave everyone gift bags!  Wow!  What a crazo!!! 

 

ETA - I am also posting this in the Memory Lane thread.  Don't know which one is the appropriate thread to post this in.

Edited April 21, 2015 by swankie

[ElsieH]

That was so weird... she's crying because "it's so impersonal!". And I was like, ummm, your initials are monogrammed on the bag.

[QuinnM]

So one of the things that kept coming up about Kelly during her seasons was that sometimes it seemed like she was reading a script.  Now that someone has mentioned being on the autistic scale that makes more sense.  She is saying things she thinks normal people say and it just comes off stilted.

 

I'm going to be watching for that tonight. 

[KFC]

In a strange way, I could see how Kelly might have been distressed at receiving the bag. That was one of the few times where I could maaaaybe see where she was coming from.

 

Kelly and Bethenny never got along (although that was largely Kelly's own fault...), and so I could understand how she viewed this random delivery of a giant Skinnygirl tote as some sort of passive-aggressive gesture/threat from Bethenny. Kels was off her rocker, but with (likely) Jill and possibly Lu winding her up about Bethenny having it out for her, it sort of makes sense that Kelly would interpret the bag (with no note or explanation from B that we saw) as an alpha dog/territorial move.

 

But whatever, Kelly is troubled and a mean person, so to steal a line from Ms. Killoren-Bensimon, I DON'T CARE!