Dark Winds - General Discussion

[AnnA]

9 minutes ago, Raja said:

In the second episode there is a flashback scene with him a a young Officer Leaphorn

Thank you. I think I know which scene you mean but I also didn't think anything happened.  It's just the two of them walking.

I'll watch it again.  This time I'll do it with the closed captions on.  There were a few spots that I couldn't understand what they were saying.  One of them is just before ceremony Anna's father tells a joke about an Indian and a convertible.  I watched it several times and still have no idea what he said.

Edited June 25, 2022 by AnnA

[mythoughtis]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:00 PM, AnnA said:

Thank you. I think I know which scene you mean but I also didn't think anything happened.  It's just the two of them walking.

I'll watch it again.  This time I'll do it with the closed captions on.  There were a few spots that I couldn't understand what they were saying.  One of them is just before ceremony Anna's father tells a joke about an Indian and a convertible.  I watched it several times and still have no idea what he said.

Walking is not the scene.  It’s hard to recognize who is who after just two episodes, so you may not have recognized exactly which man in the second episode was the Father of the girl who died in the first episode.  Watch all the scenes in the location in the flashback where the chief tells the girl to take off the letter jacket.  There is a change to  the girls  father  that happens in those scenes.   If I knew how to tag spoilers I would say more.  

Edited June 26, 2022 by mythoughtis

[AnimeMania]

S01.E04: Hooghandi

June 26, 2022 on AMC+
July 03, 2022 on AMC

Spoiler

Leaphorn suspects all of the crimes on the reservation are related; there is a big break in the case; Leaphorn invites Chee over for dinner; Manuelito makes a discovery of her own.

[cardigirl]

On 6/24/2022 at 9:48 PM, AnnA said:

I didn't understand why Anna's dad was so angry with Leaphorn.  He was angry before he knew his daughter had been killed so that wasn't the reason.  I hope someone here can explain it.

I thought it was because he knew something was happening at the mine, and didn't warn Leaphorn's son, so he died in the explosion. Leaphorn accused him of doing so, and they fought.   

[LittleIggy]

17 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Walking is not the scene.  It’s hard to recognize who is who after just two episodes, so you may not have recognized exactly which man in the second episode was the Father of the girl who died in the first episode.  Watch all the scenes in the location in the flashback where the chief tells the girl to take off the letter jacket.  There is a change to  the girls  father  that happens in those scenes.   If I knew how to tag spoilers I would say more.  

Spoiler

When you create a post click on that “crossed out eye” icon, and you get a spoiler box like the above to type in. And please say more! I don’t remember what happened either.

Edited June 26, 2022 by LittleIggy

[Auntie Anxiety]

Nitpick Alert: Wouldn’t anyone notice the inexplicable weight of the small canvas? I think I would.

[Dowel Jones]

Note to Lt. Leaphorn:  A diver isn't going to find anything in a discolored pond with just breathholding.  Get a real diver or dive team.

Backstories all round this episode.  And the obligatory TV budding romance story.

Are they going to bring Noah Emmerich in for more than just the cardboard FBI agent?  He wasn't here for much this episode.

[mythoughtis]

Spoiler

The reason the girl’s  father hates Leaphorn in the present day is because Leaphorn shot him in the knee in the flashback.  That’s why the girl’s father limps 

[magdalene]

This episode looked gorgeous.  Some of the vistas were breath-taking.  I am shocked the Mormon family is still alive. I really like Leaphorns wife and I guess young love is in the air.  They are growing on me as characters.

[Ms Lark]

My favorite parts of Ep3 is the slowly developing romantic interest between Chee and Manuelito. I think it's being handled nicely. At least for my taste!

That and the women running through the desert during the Kinaalda. They were so joyful! Even though I grew up in the area, this is a new one for me. I used to love running through the desert like that as a young woman. Apparently it's a 4 day ceremony and they run each day. I'm fascinated!

Already saw Ep4 and the series just keeps getting better. Sadly, only 6 eps, but happily it's been renewed for a second season!

Edited June 27, 2022 by Ms Lark

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m on episode 3 and really like this show.  It has a Breaking Bad flare to it, which could be due to the desert.  Lol. It has my attention.  I haven’t read anything about it , other than this thread.  The cast is excellent and the writing seems to be clever, so far.

 Loved seeing Stan again.  There are so many things to like about this series.  

[tennisgurl]

I am still really liking the show, I am sad that its a short season but am happy that we are already getting a second season. This episode was especially gorgeous, they do a great job shooting that huge desolate desert, it looks beautiful and overwhelming. 

I'm surprised that the Mormon family is still alive. Not sure what exactly the criminal plot is yet or how all of this ties together, but I am very interested. 

Leaphorn's wife is probably my favorite character, I loved everything about the run through the desert, everyone looked so happy. This is clearly of the dark gritty crime story variety, but I appreciate the moments of happiness that we get to break up the darkness. 

[BlazingBloomers]

I am liking this show very much. The scenery is gorgeous. I was lucky enough to visit that area a couple of years ago and it is so beautiful there. 
 

Was anyone else afraid that the girls running through the desert would stumble on the bodies of the Mormon family?

[cardigirl]

11 minutes ago, BlazingBloomers said:

I am liking this show very much. The scenery is gorgeous. I was lucky enough to visit that area a couple of years ago and it is so beautiful there. 
 

Was anyone else afraid that the girls running through the desert would stumble on the bodies of the Mormon family?

I'm enjoying this show very much. I was not afraid of what the running girls would find, I was just enjoying how beautiful that scene was. And then the black widow scene, and ugh! I don't know if that was supposed to be real, or fantasy, because that was one BIG black widow. 

[hatchetgirl]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

And then the black widow scene, and ugh! I don't know if that was supposed to be real, or fantasy, because that was one BIG black widow. 

I'm thinking, when all is said and done, we will get earthly answers for everything, not witch ones.  As a previous poster above said, maybe the old man died from drinking the tainted water.  I'm thinking the lady died from poison in the liquor and not the black widow bite.  

I'm so excited.  I loved that Sally saw "Father Tso" through the windows and gave a name to Leaphorn's wife.  

I could eat this show with a spoon, it's just so good.  

Any idea why Leaphorn calls the FBI guy "high pockets"?

[Lugal]

16 minutes ago, hatchetgirl said:

Any idea why Leaphorn calls the FBI guy "high pockets"?

Supposedly, "high pockets" was a nickname from the WWII era when men wore pants very high and it was a slang term for someone raised to a high position who in completely unqualified to be in that position.

[cardigirl]

3 minutes ago, Lugal said:

Supposedly, "high pockets" was a nickname from the WWII era when men wore pants very high and it was a slang term for someone raised to a high position who in completely unqualified to be in that position.

Also refers to someone who is smug, or self-satisfied, which certainly applies to Whitover (FBI guy).

[susannot]

Love the show.  I have read all the books but the show is based on early ones and I don't remember them, so it's all new.  I think Kiowa Gordon is hot.  The first Navajo sex symbol?

It was absolutely stunning to hear John Lennon's Working Class Hero as Joe is shopping in the market.

Edited June 27, 2022 by susannot

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, susannot said:

I think Kiowa Gordon is hot.

Me too! 😏 Loved when the granny called him “pretty boy” and gave Manuelito a “go, girl” look. Loved the granny period! 
OMG, the “sanitary napkins” with the garter things. 😬 Fortunately, I only had to use those for a brief time before maxi pads with the sticky strips came on the market. 
I knew Rainn Wilson was going to emerge from that rockin’ van. 😆 

Love this series. Love Zahn McLarnan.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, susannot said:

I think Kiowa Gordon is hot.  The first Navajo sex symbol?

The actor isn't Navajo.  He does have very pretty eyes, though.

As someone who loves the Tony Hillerman books, I'm struggling with this series. 

On one hand, I'm really enjoying Zahn McLarnon's performance.  Except for the hair and the height, he's pretty much how I pictured Joe Leaphorn.  And even though they've written him are more traditional than he should be, the actor has captured Leaphorn's essence very well.  (I do miss the push pins, however.)

The mystery is quite intriguing and I'm eager to see where it goes.  It's been years since I read The Dark Wind but the plot of the show doesn't bear much resemblance to what I remember of the novel, so I can't really say I'm spoiled on how it will play out.  And yes, that witch woman is damned scary, far scarier than the men with guns.

I'm okay with Bernadette Manuelito, although I think they're rushing the potential romance with Jim Chee.  She's an interesting character, and not a shrinking violet, which I do like.

And then there's Jim Chee.  So much is wrong with this character that I can't even list all the problems.  Starting with his backstory, his seeming lack of knowledge about Navajo culture (and he was the traditional one in the books!) and the overall stilted performance just makes him a complete misstep for me.  I don't blame Kiowa Gordon for this; I blame the writers and producers for the decision to use the character's name while omitting everything which made the character interesting in the books.

Still, I'm going to keep watching because I want to see how the story turns out.

[bigmag]

Agree with your comments re: the difference to the book characters.  It's been a long time since I read the books, but IIRC Leaphorn was the more progressive character, and Chee, although younger than Leaphorn, was the one trying to preserve the old ways.  I believe he was trying to become a healer or a shaman, so it seems like they have totally reversed the characters for the TV show.

[magdalene]

Personally I would not want to drive across such a vast landscape in one vehicle like the Mormon family did - not even nowadays when we have cell phones.  I would only drive in a sort of caravan with at least one other car. Just in case. Even the most well-maintained vehicle can break down, and even plenty of water will run out. And maybe before someone like Tribal police come across you.

[sugarbaker design]

18 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

As someone who loves the Tony Hillerman books, I'm struggling with this series. 

Ditto.

18 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

The mystery is quite intriguing and I'm eager to see where it goes.  It's been years since I read The Dark Wind but the plot of the show doesn't bear much resemblance to what I remember of the novel, so I can't really say I'm spoiled on how it will play out. 

According to the opening credits this season is based on Listening Woman, a Leaphorn novel, that featured neither Jim nor Bernie.  IIRC, there is a novel with a DB Cooper type of story, although I cannot remember which one.

18 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

And then there's Jim Chee.

Yes, and then there's Jim Chee.  The Jim Chee of the novesl respected and participated in the old ways.  The Jim Chee of the TV show is working for the FBI, spying on Leaphorn, and has no respect and doesn't participate in the old ways.  Makes no sense to me.

18 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Sttill, I'm going to keep watching because I want to see how the story turns out.

Again, ditto.

Edited June 29, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[pasdetrois]

In the books Chee was seriously studying to be a spiritual leader, including observing and practicing sings. And he lived in a trailer. Hillerman did provide him the back story of working for the feds at one point.

OK, I'll say it since no one else has, when we were shown the Mormon family in the pit, I immediately thought "Silence of the Lambs." If Hillerman didn't write it originally, then it's very derivative.

I assume the pit is an abandoned kiva site (hole for ceremonies)? Although kivas are a pueblo tradition, not Dine.

Really enjoy the actors and the typical background scenes.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

Yes, and then there's Jim Chee.  The Jim Chee of the novesl respected and participated in the old ways.  The Jim Chee of the TV show is working for the FBI, spying on Leaphorn, and has no respect and doesn't participate in the old ways.  Makes no sense to me.

I would start with the prejudice that the show runner planned on more than one season to do a full character arc on Special Agent Chee. So we will watch him grow in faith over the run. In my experience adult converts tend to be more in line with their faith community than those who continued to go socially since forced to do so as children 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Raja

[tennisgurl]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:20 PM, hatchetgirl said:

I'm thinking, when all is said and done, we will get earthly answers for everything, not witch ones.  As a previous poster above said, maybe the old man died from drinking the tainted water.  I'm thinking the lady died from poison in the liquor and not the black widow bite.  

My guess is that we will find seemingly logical explanations for everything that has happened and everything is wrapped up, until the very end where something creepy or mystical happens with no clear explanation, keeping it ambiguous if there was magic involved or not. 

[hatchetgirl]

39 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

My guess is that we will find seemingly logical explanations for everything that has happened and everything is wrapped up, until the very end where something creepy or mystical happens with no clear explanation, keeping it ambiguous if there was magic involved or not. 

YES!  I could totally get on board with this!  

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

I would start with the prejudice that the show runner planned on more than one season to do a full character arc on Special Agent Chee. So we will watch him grow in faith over the run. In my experience adult converts tend to be more in line with their faith community than those who continued to go socially since forced to do so as children 

In the books, Jim Chee had the back story they've given to Bernadette: he was taken from his family by the government and put in boarding school.  It happened to a lot of Native American children up through the 1960s with the express purpose of assimilating them into the white culture; they weren't allowed to practice any part of their native culture, including speaking their native language.  So book Jim Chee was working to reconnect with the culture of his people, somewhat like an adult convert in a way.  It was a really important aspect of his character and one I really miss.  Without that back story, I'm finding the tv character incredibly bland.

I suspect you may be correct about the showrunner's intent, but I think it's a huge misstep in an otherwise engaging show.

[mythoughtis]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:20 PM, hatchetgirl said:

I'm thinking, when all is said and done, we will get earthly answers for everything, not witch ones.  As a previous poster above said, maybe the old man died from drinking the tainted water.  I'm thinking the lady died from poison in the liquor and not the black widow bite.  

Oh the man totally died from drinking the tainted water. He specifically  said he had felt bad ever since he saw ‘ the mechanical  bird’.  
Wanda either died from the alcohol or from a  black widow spider.  Lester cautioned Leaphorn about the  wood pile having black widow spiders.  
Did something else  happen in the hotel room that resulted in the death of the girl.  Oh definitely… something that involved Devoted Dan and the other criminal.  We just don’t know what yet.  A more complete autopsy would have  found a toxin of some sort, and would have also found the cause for the older man’s death. 
That doesn’t negate the fact the the witch is totally creepy 

[UpaCreek]

On 6/26/2022 at 3:06 PM, Auntie Anxiety said:

Nitpick Alert: Wouldn’t anyone notice the inexplicable weight of the small canvas? I think I would.

Yes, that much money is not light weight.  One would think the store owner would quiz his wife about it.  The fate of the Mormon family is on his head.

[LittleIggy]

10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Oh the man totally died from drinking the tainted water

Old Man Tso got sick from the water, but I doubt he died from it. His body was found mutilated in the motel room. I’m sure he was killed by whoever mutilated him.

On 6/28/2022 at 3:01 PM, proserpina65 said:

The actor isn't Navajo.

Kiowa Gordon is of Hualapai descent.

Edited June 30, 2022 by LittleIggy

[mythoughtis]

58 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Old Man Tso got sick from the water, but I doubt he died from it. His body was found mutilated in the motel room. I’m sure he was killed by whomever mutilated him.

Kiowa Gordon is of Hualapai descent.

Thank you for reminding me about the  mutilation.  I forgot. You are correct -,that would be what killed him, but I still think the criminals did it and not the witch 

[bilgistic]

I was a little lost; was Sally saying Father Tso impregnated (and, obviously, raped) her? And she said she didn't have a Kinaalda—did that mean she didn't have the ceremony, or was she implying she was raped and impregnated before her first period?

[MBayGal]

On 6/27/2022 at 9:26 PM, LittleIggy said:

Loved the granny period! 
OMG, the “sanitary napkins”

interesting juxtaposition there😊😊 (a comma after "granny" would have helped, but it would still be funny.)
I didn't recognize Rainn Wilson!

Edited June 30, 2022 by MBayGal

[SunnyBeBe]

On 6/28/2022 at 5:12 PM, magdalene said:

Personally I would not want to drive across such a vast landscape in one vehicle like the Mormon family did - not even nowadays when we have cell phones.  I would only drive in a sort of caravan with at least one other car. Just in case. Even the most well-maintained vehicle can break down, and even plenty of water will run out. And maybe before someone like Tribal police come across you.

I agree. I rode with my date from San Diego to Yuma AZ many years ago, before cell phones were common and I thought that was risky. Lol  I do love the desert landscape though.  

[mythoughtis]

11 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I was a little lost; was Sally saying Father Tso impregnated (and, obviously, raped) her? And she said she didn't have a Kinaalda—did that mean she didn't have the ceremony, or was she implying she was raped and impregnated before her first period?

The name she gave Emma was the name of the supposed Father Tso’s criminal accomplice- Frank.  
Sally appears to have been kept in isolation by her mother. If I remember correctly, she hasn’t been attending school.  So her mother probably did not give her the normal celebration ceremony of her first period either. 

[proserpina65]

17 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Kiowa Gordon is of Hualapai descent.

Yeah, that's what I saw when I googled him.  Not Navajo, but from a Southwest people at least.

[hatchetgirl]

On 6/29/2022 at 10:36 AM, mythoughtis said:

Wanda either died from the alcohol or from a  black widow spider.  Lester cautioned Leaphorn about the  wood pile having black widow spiders.

Do black widow bites cause death that fast?  It looks like it takes about 30-40 minutes to start having symptoms.  I'm not seeing much about death anymore.

I'm now starting to question Lester.  He mentioned black widows and suddenly, there's one on the wood pile - and it's huge...  He sure seemed ok but then got all busted up about his wife and then was ok again right away...  I don't know.  With his wife's paintings...  He seems accepted enough by the reservation people to be invited to ceremony... I wonder if he's peripherally in the buffalo society group.  

[Dowel Jones]

She did get bit on the neck, so there is that possibility.

[sugarbaker design]

4 hours ago, hatchetgirl said:

Do black widow bites cause death that fast?  

No, but poisoned rotgut sure does!

Edited July 1, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[AnnA]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:53 PM, Raja said:

In the second episode there is a flashback scene with him a a young Officer Leaphorn

Thank you.  I'll rewatch it.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E05: Ha'íínlni

July 03, 2022 on AMC+
July 10, 2022 on AMC

Spoiler

With a major suspect in custody, Leaphorn discovers that there is more to this crime than he would have ever imagined; Manuelito faces her worst fears; Chee must make a choice between his career and his people.

[Maren]

Man. That was a stressful episode! This is one of those shows I wish I knew the ending to cause its stressing me out lol. I want the bad guys to get caught and the good guys to all be ok. I'm really worried about the girl and her baby. Her mama be evil! And I guess Chee hadn't been swayed to Leaphorn's side. That was disappointing. They only have 2 episodes left, and the show does drag things out a little, so hopefully they will tie up all the stories! 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Maren
Spelling

[mjc570]

i really wish I were able to binge this, there is so much going on I find it hard to remember from one week to the next.  

As others have noted, there are quite a few differences from the book characters, so I am just enjoying this on its own terms.   I like the casting in terms of the actors, but they are just not faithful to how they are described.  For example - I always pictured Bennie as short, but athletic, rather than tall, rangy and athletic.   

Poor Joe, what a shit day.

[Maren]

I agree, mjc570, this is a perfect binge show.

[Melonie77]

I just came across this new show last week. I too agree it would be more enjoyable binged! Streaming has spoiled me now and don't like to wait a week for episodes in serialized stories. 
I rewatched the first 3 episodes before tonight's new show. The writing is great, the mystery is intriguing, I'm loving the southwest scenery, the Navajo theme and the 1971 period setting. Casting is excellent - loved Zahn McClarnon in Longmire and Chee is a nice looking dude! Seems like there is a lot to wrap up in only 2 more episodes unless this particular mystery continues into the next season?

Edited July 4, 2022 by Melonie77

[Melonie77]

On 6/14/2022 at 8:58 AM, sugarbaker design said:

So different.  Jim Chee would never speed past people stuck on the road.  It looks like this 6-episode season will be based on the novel Listening Woman, which is a good novel, although Jim and Bernie aren't in it.

I'm not sure if I'm mixing scenes up but wasn't that a small roadside stand of some sort that he drove by? I didn't think it was someone in need of aid. I thought they were perhaps selling crafts.

[SunnyBeBe]

I already know that I’m going to rewatch the entire series as soon as I finish the finale.  There are so many little things being shown…..I know there must be clues. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Raja]

11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I already know that I’m going to rewatch the entire series as soon as I finish the finale.  There are so many little things being shown…..I know there must be clues. 

I was watching the recap before starting episode 4 and had to check if I was watching 4 or somehow I had episode 5 without paying for a premium service.

[mythoughtis]

So why was Joe alone at the end of the episode?  Was it just because it was late at night or has Emma left?