S04.E18: The Best-Laid Plans, a Contrabassoon, and a Sinking Feeling

[Pallas]

Darlene struggles to cope with the stress of construction; Lou returns as Mark's combative contrabassoon teacher.

[Annber03]

Not sure it was a wise move for Ben to move Darlene at all after she fell through that roof. Also thinking Ben should hold off on proposing until he and Darlene really work through and talk out all their issues and he's not so caught up in the emotion of the moment. But I'm not surprised they got back together in and of itself, 'cause, well, it was a pretty inevitable thing. 

I did like Dan being protective of Mark, and I can also understand being wary of teachers who can be super tough in and of itself, 'cause there's a very fine line between tough and just flat out harsh. But I do appreciate that Mark is willing to do whatever he needs to do to get to where he needs to be, though, yes, he needs to keep focusing on wiser methods to make that happen. 

I liked Becky's "Fauci" line. And I also liked the jokes about the funeral home, with the urns being used as cookie jars and the two chimneys :p. 

[ams1001]

"Darlene struggles to cope with the stress of construction." What construction? They haven't constructed anything yet.

There's a "plan store"?

Wow Mark's voice really changed while he was hiding in the attic or wherever he's been.

We're still doing this contrabassoon thing? Really? He really expects to get good enough to get a college scholarship in a couple years? I googled contrabassoon and found an NPR article that says "The bassoon is one of the most difficult instruments in the orchestra to play"; but sure, a teenaged beginner with no particular musical talent (as far as we've seen) will master it to college-scholarship-level proficiency by the end of high school. And this is his only plan for getting into college? I thought Mark was supposed to be the smart one. 

I'm sorry, but a little Christopher Lloyd goes a looong way. 

"That kid'll do anything" to be able to go to college...except anything that actually makes sense. 

I still don't understand what Ben sees in Darlene, but I guess we all knew this was coming, so whatever.

"Don't marry me just cuz you want a sink." "I don't know how else to get one." 

1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

Not sure it was a wise move for Ben to move Darlene at all after she fell through that roof.

I was thinking the same thing. She could have had a spinal injury. Should have waited for paramedics to move her.

[Shermie]

So they’re still going through with the tear down plan? Ugh. I hope they save the stained glass windows, and some of that gorgeous woodwork. Of course, the roof is rotting so they can justify tearing the house down. 

And who didn’t see the fall coming? “The roof is rotting, don’t walk there”, followed by “Don’t tell me what to do, I’m going to jump there and show you!” Foosh, down she goes!

Geez, how old is Christopher Lloyd? He’s looked 75 for the last 40 years.

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, Shermie said:

Geez, how old is Christopher Lloyd? He’s looked 75 for the last 40 years.

83, according to wikipedia.

[tribeca]

Ben and Darlene are a Terrible couple.  Of course they will get married.   

[UYI]

Darlene should have died, she and Ben shouldn't be together, and Christopher Lloyd rules. That is all.

I did find it hilarious that the family apparently had no idea Darlene was even in hospital in the final scene, though. 

[Irate Panda]

I hate these people.

[Bastet]

I guess I hate their refusal to let go of the Darlene/Ben pairing less than I hated their refusal (until they knew they couldn't get Johnny Galecki) to let go of the even more stupid Darlene/David pairing, and it's been inevitable, working out to a firm whatever, dudes attitude from me about it.  Except to ask why he's acting like the aggrieved party, when he's the one who broke it off with her (for damn good reason).

"Are you okay?"
"No, I just fell through a house."

"Lighter than a sandwich, my ass."

That was funny, but then the glad you're alive kiss turns into a proposal.  Again: whatever, dudes.

But I just plain can't with this contrabassoon as the one path to college thing.  That is seriously being pursued, not left as a dumb joke in one episode?  This family was always hampered by a combination of institutional barriers, ignorance, and their own choices, but these folks are now all just too damn stupid to live, so it's getting hard to root for them, despite my long and affectionate history.

Dan should have talked to Mark, not Lou, after taking issue with the lesson he overheard.  "My daughter's got a house with a crematorium, and I'm itching to fire that thing up" would have been a great line if the offense had warranted it.  I'm glad he apologized.

I'd been hoping the announced return of Lou would mean another video call with Bev (since I figure Estelle Parsons is quite wisely not going to film in person), but no dice.

Meh episode. 

[greekmom]

The contrabassoon story is just dumb.

Ben getting back together with Darlene is even dumber.

I just can't show.

Please network, put it out of it's misery.

 

[EtheltoTillie]

Also, where was Katey Sagal?

Edited May 5, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[luna1122]

Becky and Ben have far more chemistry together than he and Darlene. 

The wrecking-a-perfectly-good-house story line--when they have no money to build a new one, and the reason for doing it still evades me: cuz atheist Darlene is scared of spirits of deadfolks?---enrages me. 

My honey is a working musician and the contrabassoon story enrages him. He knows and works with tons of other musicians, but doesn't know anyone who plays the contrabassoon, and the idea that this kid, who has never played any musical instrument, is trying to get a scholarship by learning to play, is stupid, he says. He did laugh at Christopher Lloyd's line about only 3 people knowing how to play it tho, cuz: accurate. 

I don't necessarily want the show to not come back, but I do want it to get better. 

[EtheltoTillie]

He can’t even play Hot Cross Buns yet he has a master teacher from a symphony orchestra?  Please stop with the contrabassoon crap. 

[NoReally]

After Darlene fell through the roof, I really thought the whole proposal sequence was going to turn out to be a concussion-based dream. 

No such luck.

[Rocknrollzombie]

Not going to watch the episode but just going off by what I have read. More asinine plots, more dumb decisions.

but as a person who took three music classes in highschool (drums, guitar, violin) and one in middle school (clarinet)and one in elementary (piano which I really liked).
 

The contrabassoon crap is so irritating to read about.  And as someone pointed out he can’t play hot cross buns but has this master teacher. Like I don’t even want to try to figure it out or what the writers were probably smoking to come up with this dumb plot.  
 

I remember in highschool it took us weeks to perfect learning a song, same in middle school the teacher would repeatedly go over certain parts with us to make sure we got it right, give us small pointers here and there. I had to learn the notes, what each note means, how to read a music sheet all that jazz that comes with learning a instrument.

and also even just getting a replacement reed can be pricey now as least from what I searched for the contrabassoon. A reed is sometimes 20 dollars which to some might not be pricey that much but it is a piece of thin cane wood  and woodwind musicians have to be careful at times to not break it. Or then they have to buy a replacement.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Rocknrollzombie

[ams1001]

21 minutes ago, Rocknrollzombie said:

and also even just getting a replacement reed can be pricey now

First thing I clicked on:

How much does a bassoon reed cost?

It is possible to find a bassoon reed for $10.00, but the average cost of a bassoon reed will be around $20.00. If you are a serious bassoon player, however, you will want to invest more in your reed.

Also says they last 2-3 months, on average.

[Rocknrollzombie]

1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

First thing I clicked on:

How much does a bassoon reed cost?

It is possible to find a bassoon reed for $10.00, but the average cost of a bassoon reed will be around $20.00. If you are a serious bassoon player, however, you will want to invest more in your reed.

Also says they last 2-3 months, on average.

Yeah, but to make sure it’s kept in a safe place, not losing it can be hectic. And with this family I don’t trust the contrabassoon or the reeds making it out alive.

[ams1001]

I want to know where they got the instrument itself. Did they buy it? Rent? Does it belong to the school (doubtful)?

[UsernameFatigue]

As noted above, Ben has much more chemistry with Becky than Darlene. Heck, he has much more chemistry with Dan, Jackie and Mark. I do like the character so I am glad that Ben has stuck around, but not looking forward to he and Darlene becoming a couple again. They weren't cute together the first time. and I doubt that the fall with change Darlene's personality.

I also hate the storyline of renovating a lovely old home because Darlene doesn't like that it was a funeral home. I hope she is haunted by ghosts once she moves in (like the ghosts on Ghosts, but not nearly as nice) and ends up selling at a loss. 

[ams1001]

28 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I also hate the storyline of renovating a lovely old home because Darlene doesn't like that it was a funeral home. I hope she is haunted by ghosts once she moves in (like the ghosts on Ghosts, but not nearly as nice) and ends up selling at a loss. 

lol...those ghosts are tied to the property (ignoring that the property lines wouldn't have existed when at least two of them died 500+ years ago; probably not when the Revolutionary War-era ghosts died, either). By Ghosts rules, tearing down the house wouldn't make a difference.

[SoMuchTV]

10 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

lol...those ghosts are tied to the property (ignoring that the property lines wouldn't have existed when at least two of them died 500+ years ago; probably not when the Revolutionary War-era ghosts died, either). By Ghosts rules, tearing down the house wouldn't make a difference.

But if we’re going by Ghosts rules, the ghosts would be stuck on the property where they died, and I suspect most folks were already dead when they got there. Sorry to stray further off topic. But somehow it seems that a show with ghosts has more consistent rules than the Conner universe has 

[Shermie]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I also hate the storyline of renovating a lovely old home because Darlene doesn't like that it was a funeral home.

I wish they were renovating this home. They’re going to tear it down. Nobody would blame them if they just wanted to renovate an old funeral home to make it less funeral home-y. 

As for the ghosts and Darlene’s irrational fear of them, it’s been mentioned that two people have died in the Connor home (that they know of) and she’s not freaked out about that even though she lives there with those alleged ghosts.

I wonder if the writers just googled “what’s the most obscure and difficult musical instrument?” and went with whatever came up. I can see a desperate student going for music (or art or sports or something) in hopes of a scholarship, but I can’t imagine any high school band having a contrabassoon in stock, especially in a low-middle class town like Lanford. My high school had a very good band program and we were told that the French horn was the most difficult. We had oboes, but didn’t have a bassoon, much less a contrabassoon.

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

This family was always hampered by a combination of institutional barriers, ignorance, and their own choices, but these folks are now all just too damn stupid to live, so it's getting hard to root for them, despite my long and affectionate history.

Same. I’m watching this because I liked the original show and I love John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf. I know they can do better than this, so the pay must be extraordinary. Their characters have none of the charm they used to have.

[ams1001]

43 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

But if we’re going by Ghosts rules, the ghosts would be stuck on the property where they died, and I suspect most folks were already dead when they got there. Sorry to stray further off topic. But somehow it seems that a show with ghosts has more consistent rules than the Conner universe has 

That's true. So probably not too many ghosts there. But it's an old house and as a funeral home would have had a lot of people in and out of it. Quite possible someone has died there at some point. Now I need a crossover where Sam and Jay go there for a funeral and she meets a ghost or two and helps them haunt Darlene somehow.

10 minutes ago, Shermie said:

My high school had a very good band program and we were told that the French horn was the most difficult. We had oboes, but didn’t have a bassoon, much less a contrabassoon.

My friend's kids' HS has a massive music program (her oldest plays saxophone in at least three groups, including marching band and the apparently difficult-to-get-into Jazz band; she just did a program where she got to spent a weekend with the marching band at the college she will be going to next year; she is planning to major in a science field and I don't know if she has any scholarships for music). I should ask her if she knows if anyone plays the contrabassoon in their orchestra. She's posted some videos and I'm pretty sure I've never seen anything that looks like a bassoon. (I learned last week that a coworker's college-age daughter is majoring in music and plays the French Horn.)

 

[EtheltoTillie]

Random Googling reveals a website selling used professional contrabassoons for $28,000 and $30,000.  I make no pretense that this is exhaustive research.

https://www.mmimports.com/product-category/bassoon-instruments/used-contrabassoons/

[Shermie]

2 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Random Googling reveals a website selling used professional contrabassoons for $28,000 and $30,000.  I make no pretense that this is exhaustive research.

You know that all your feeds and sites are going to be peppered with ads for contrabassoons now, right?

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

But if we’re going by Ghosts rules, the ghosts would be stuck on the property where they died, and I suspect most folks were already dead when they got there. Sorry to stray further off topic. But somehow it seems that a show with ghosts has more consistent rules than the Conner universe has 

But going by The Connors writers' rules, anything goes. Including Darlene being able to buy a house and then spend even more money to renovate it. Also I am confused - she is tearing the house down completely? Or gutting it on the inside? I thought the latter. But either is unbelievable, even with Ben supplying materials at cost. In any case most of this show no longer makes sense so I am still hoping for ghosts haunting Darlene's home, however they manage to get there. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by UsernameFatigue

[Mr. Sparkle]

13 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Random Googling reveals a website selling used professional contrabassoons for $28,000 and $30,000.  I make no pretense that this is exhaustive research.

https://www.mmimports.com/product-category/bassoon-instruments/used-contrabassoons/

I've gone down a wormhole of expensive musical instrument sites. Trumpet might have been a better choice. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

As for the ghosts and Darlene’s irrational fear of them, it’s been mentioned that two people have died in the Connor home (that they know of) and she’s not freaked out about that even though she lives there with those alleged ghosts.

They picked another dumb reason to tear down a perfectly good house.  Becky, not Darlene, was initially freaked out by the ghosts idea, but once they got there they were fine.  It was when they went into the room that had been for children whose parents had died that they both got upset by the "energy" of the house -- their sticking point when they came home and described it to the family was not that it had held dead people, but that it had been the setting for so much sorrow and grief.

So, still not a reason to tear down a house (all houses would need to be torn down if that was a real thing), but it's not ghosts.

Unless they changed it to ghosts this episode and I missed it.  I don't fully devote my attention to it anymore.

[Linderhill]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I want to know where they got the instrument itself. Did they buy it? Rent? Does it belong to the school (doubtful)?

this was my first thought, those puppies are super expensive and, yes, very difficult to play.  I had a classmate that played the bassoon and was quite good at it.  She ended up with some great musical opportunities but she'd been playing since elementary years.  Unless Mark turns out to be a prodigy, I'm not confident this will be a successful venture.

[izabella]

8 minutes ago, Bastet said:

their sticking point when they came home and described it to the family was not that it had held dead people, but that it had been the setting for so much sorrow and grief.

As if the Connor house hasn't been.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Random Googling reveals a website selling used professional contrabassoons for $28,000 and $30,000.  I make no pretense that this is exhaustive research.

https://www.mmimports.com/product-category/bassoon-instruments/used-contrabassoons/

I did that during the episode when this idiotic idea was first brought up. I found three listings (on Guitar Center's website, IIRC) and they were all in the 30K range.

59 minutes ago, Shermie said:

You know that all your feeds and sites are going to be peppered with ads for contrabassoons now, right?

Yes, that happened too (not contrabassoons, specifically, but I got plenty of Guitar Center ads for a few days). 🎸

[Bastet]

11 minutes ago, izabella said:

As if the Connor house hasn't been.

As if any house hasn't been.  Like I said, if that was an actual reason to tear down houses, every house would have to be torn down.

[januaryman]

I guess Mary goes back into hiding now that Mark is back - only one kid allowed on the show a week?

Go ahead, Ben and marry bossy, unpleasant and unappealing Darlene. I won't be sticking around to see that after this season wraps, especially if The Wonder Years gets squeezed off the schedule for this tired show.

[bad things are bad]

I'm getting to the "just can't with this show anymore" phase with this show,  like I did with The Goldbergs a few years ago.

Darlene and Ben plot is stupid. Tearing the house down is stupid.  Stew at a sports bar is stupid.  Characters disappearing without explanation for multiple episodes is stupid. Beverly Rose aging on her own timeline is stupid.  This show is supposed to be "realistic".

As someone else mentioned,  I don't really want the show to be canceled,  I just want the writing to improve 

[MissLucas]

I'm trying to figure out what's the dumbest plot of them all: Ben and Darlene marrying, the contrabassoon or tearing down the funeral home. It's pretty much a tie so far. Mark has as much chance to get a music scholarship than a sports scholarship (well, the latter might be a tad better if he started shooting hoops).

If they're going through with that marriage they should really curb all scenes with Becky and Ben, they've got tons of chemistry.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by MissLucas

[UYI]

4 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

 

If they're really going through with that marriage they should really curb all scenes with Becky and Ben, they've got tons of chemistry.

 

They really do, and I'm evil enough to wish they have an affair and send Darlene around the bend for good. :P

[zoey1996]

18 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Mark has as much chance to get a music scholarship than a sports scholarship (well, the latter might be a tad better if he started shooting hoops.

Mark’s gotten so tall! I really noticed last night!

[Rocknrollzombie]

Okay In honestly an affair between Ben and Becky because they have ‘chemistry’, will just do damage to Darlene.
 

Even though she is unlikeable the idea of her sister doing that to her is just wrong. Will ultimately make Darlene just despise Becky because of the implied affair in season 2 that would come true if that happens. It would ruin the relationship between them for good. it would further ruin Ben and Becky as characters just for a relationship 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Rocknrollzombie

[iMonrey]

Jay Ferguson either had to be written off the show entirely or reconcile with Darlene. There's really no other choice; his continued, incessant presence at the Conner house made no sense whatsoever, especially the way he and Darlene were constantly sniping at each other. I honestly thought they were a pretty good match when they first hooked up; the witty banter between them felt very believable. However, the writers ruined that relationship beyond what I would consider repairable. It's really too late to do a U-turn now and this one felt like it came out of the blue.

Darlene fell through the roof right down to the first floor! That's at least a 2-story house with at least some attic space. Did she fall through two other levels before she hit the ground? She should have broken bones from head to toe at the very least.

[SoMuchTV]

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Darlene fell through the roof right down to the first floor! That's at least a 2-story house with at least some attic space. Did she fall through two other levels before she hit the ground? She should have broken bones from head to toe at the very least.

It looked like they were on a section of the roof that was lower than the rest of the house. So maybe that’s one thing that makes sense. 

[eXiled]

Is there a reason Mark's only way of getting a scholarship is dependent upon him learning an instrument? Will he be applying to colleges with big band reputations (like playing at football games and such)? Or is it simply that he needs an extracurricular activity?

If it's the latter, why wouldn't Mark get involved with student government? That would be a hell of a lot easier, and given his personality, he might even enjoy it more.

[QQQQ]

12 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Becky and Ben have far more chemistry together than he and Darlene.

Remember toward the end of the original series Roseanne revealed that David actually married Becky, not Darlene (which then all turned out to be a dream or a book or some such nonsense). But I think the point is that Darlene has been intolerable for a long time 😅

[ams1001]

43 minutes ago, eXiled said:

Is there a reason Mark's only way of getting a scholarship is dependent upon him learning an instrument? Will he be applying to colleges with big band reputations (like playing at football games and such)? Or is it simply that he needs an extracurricular activity?

If it's the latter, why wouldn't Mark get involved with student government? That would be a hell of a lot easier, and given his personality, he might even enjoy it more.

I think it was about needing something unique that will make him stand out from other kids? Maybe? So of course they pick a difficult instrument that'll require him to practice 40 hours a day* if he wants any chance of being scholarship-level good by the time he's applying to schools.

(*a bubble tea for anyone who gets that joke)

Edited May 6, 2022 by ams1001

[Irate Panda]

37 minutes ago, eXiled said:

Is there a reason Mark's only way of getting a scholarship is dependent upon him learning an instrument? Will he be applying to colleges with big band reputations (like playing at football games and such)? Or is it simply that he needs an extracurricular activity?

I think Darlene’s “research” about paying for college gave her the brilliant idea that contrabassoon scholarships were handed out to people that start playing as a junior and can barely squeak out Hot Cross Buns.  I still think they could have easily explained both Mark and Becky paying for College through Welman’s Union.  Many unions offer free college both associates and bachelors to specific schools, but I guess it’s not The Conners if everyone is not struggling in the wackiest way possible.

[izabella]

Mark should try playing tennis.  He has the lanky body to run after balls and reach for shots.  He could play individually or doubles, but if he's in a club or on a team, he could make some friends and do something fun.  It won't get him a scholarship, but neither will the contrabassoon.

[Welshman in Ca]

On 5/5/2022 at 6:30 AM, luna1122 said:

 

The wrecking-a-perfectly-good-house story line--when they have no money to build a new one, and the reason for doing it still evades me: cuz atheist Darlene is scared of spirits of deadfolks?---enrages me. 

 

 

I didn't realize you had to believe in one to believe in the other. My bad. 🙄

[luna1122]

7 minutes ago, Welshman in Ca said:

 

I didn't realize you had to believe in one to believe in the other. My bad. 🙄

Hmm. It seems counterintuitive to me to believe in the supernatural as an atheist, but maybe I'm only speaking for myself here. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I still think they could have easily explained both Mark and Becky paying for College through Welman’s Union.  

Quote

They did, in season three.  Becky is a union steward (so she was giving Darlene grief when Darlene got promoted to management).

Oof! That's right. Still, I believe the show means to keep all the characters in dire financial straits because that's the basis of all their stories.

Edited May 6, 2022 by iMonrey

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

They've never established whether Wellman employees belong to a union. 

They did, in season three.  Becky is a union steward (so she was giving Darlene grief when Darlene got promoted to management).

[kassa]

For a second I TOTALLY thought they were going to do a hard turn and put Ben with Becky and it MADE SENSE!  They definitely have chemistry, and it could definitely create a ton of drama. If the writers had been brave enough to let their initial plan go, and let Darlene feel weird but not torn up about it, it could have gone places and kept a good actor around doing interesting things, solving Becky relationship issues as well.

Sadly, I'm not sure Sara has much chemistry with anybody except Roseanne herself. The character of Darlene since she entered her dark teenage phase has been one of snark and alienation. It totally worked for her as a teen. Less in the relationship with David, because while she echoed Roseanne, the underlying warmth was missing. It beggars belief that Jackie found Nigel... I don't know why we're supposed to think anybody would go for Darlene when she's just so nasty all the time.

The house storyline irks me, too. That house was built to last centuries and they're going to tear it down and replace it with the cheapest stuff they can source from Home Depot, or some guy Dan used to work with who "knows somebody." And then all the labor, etc. Insanity.  No way Dan would go for that - he would know what she would end up with would be inferior to what she was starting out with. No way would his new wife (never remember her character's name) have proposed it - "I never see my chronically financially insecure husband any more - I know, I'll offer him up to build a freaking house!"  And Darlene as a character would have been the first to decide a funeral home was cool. 

Would have been better to have her gung ho and the kids uneasy.