S04.E12: Trouble the Water

[TexasGal]

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Nathan angers Wendy by making Charlotte and Jonah a surprising offer.  Ruth tries to erase her own past with an assist from Charles Wilkes.

Airdate: 04.29.2022

[Armchair Critic]

Not that I trust grandpa, but Wendy you have lost my sympathy.

[EllaWycliffe]

4 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Not that I trust grandpa, but Wendy you have lost my sympathy.

I find myself wondering what the actual story was - what Granpa Johnboy was really like, versus what Wendy was like as a kid. Was he *really* the abusive monster she claims? I can see some of it being true. Was Wendy really such a horrible teen daughter? Maybe... but they both seem to have warped memories and I'd love to know what the truth is. 

[DrSpaceman73]

Overall I'm just underwhelmed by all this so far this half season. Very slow moving and not that engaged in these stories.

And only two episodes left? 

[Artsda]

The kids seem to know exactly what Wendy is, Marty needs to just to wake up. 

Good for Ruth!

[DoctorAtomic]

I tend to agree with Wendy about 'keeping your enemies close' because I don't share Marty's opinion that Omar would believe him about the sister, which, might not be good for Marty getting in the middle of family, or that if he does, Omar might not act as summarily as Marty thinks either. Although she is handling the 'day to day' smoothly. Wendy had to make the call on the voting machines. 

I don't like Ruth and the Byrdes being at odds. The plot is entirely logical, and there's nothing to call out, but I just want them on the same team.

Ruth got her record cleaned fairly quick and easy. I thought there would be a little suspense. The judge said she was going to 'comb through' and maybe find things that the cops didn't. She makes one visit to the trailer and that's it? 

Leave it to Wendy to mouth off to a judge! I actually thought the ruling was really interesting in not for Wendy/Marty or Nathan, but giving the kids agency instead. 

I'm quite surprised that the kids decided to go to North Carolina. Charlotte was all in on the family business. Jonah is making massive bank laundering for Ruth (or was), but still gainfully employed managing the books for the motel. It was a missed opportunity in the scene with Ruth and Jonah at the motel for him to talk to her about why he wanted to leave. 

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I tend to agree with Wendy about 'keeping your enemies close' because I don't share Marty's opinion that Omar would believe him about the sister

Honestly, I think Omar would have considered that possibility, especially after telling everyone that Javi was killed on Omar's orders.

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm not getting the impression that Omar suspects her. He wouldn't have let her be in charge. I think he'd would have said something already. 

[EllaWycliffe]

19 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm not getting the impression that Omar suspects her. He wouldn't have let her be in charge. I think he'd would have said something already. 

Yeah the "and Camila takes over the cartel" concept is a fail point for me. I don't believe a woman would ever be accepted in a cartel as the leader. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I can handwave because it's Omar's sister, and everyone knows her. If it was his wife, then I don't think I'd buy it. 

[IslandGirl]

On 4/30/2022 at 5:00 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

Ruth got her record cleaned fairly quick and easy. I thought there would be a little suspense. The judge said she was going to 'comb through' and maybe find things that the cops didn't. She makes one visit to the trailer and that's it?

When the judge commented how every time Ruth was arrested she was with her father or uncle, followed up by how they’d led Ruth astray, I think Ruth’s response sealed (no pun intended) the deal; Ruth said no, she did that all on her own, taking full ownership & accountability for her misdeeds which impressed the judge. I also feel like Ruth’s foul language during judge’s visit showed she was being real & not putting on an act…

[DoctorAtomic]

That's fair, but it was a little too pat with one visit and conversation and that was that. The judge said she was going to find stuff no one else found. It was just a little too easy that Ruth was honest and that was it. 

 

[gesundheit]

I'd honestly forgotten Rachel's whole arc in her first stretch on this show. It seems weird that she was so against the whole plan and then decided to go scorched earth because of Tuck, someone she also clearly had not checked in on herself. (Although given that she's already tanked her sobriety, I guess the point is that she was looking for any reason, maybe?)

But like I said I've forgotten so much of her first arc that maybe that's a perfectly reasonable decision on her part.

[AntFTW]

8 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I can handwave because it's Omar's sister, and everyone knows her. If it was his wife, then I don't think I'd buy it. 

Same, and the idea is to make it look like she's acting on behalf of Omar.

Edited May 2, 2022 by AntFTW

[SoMuchTV]

On 4/29/2022 at 7:55 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

I find myself wondering what the actual story was - what Granpa Johnboy was really like, versus what Wendy was like as a kid. Was he *really* the abusive monster she claims? I can see some of it being true. Was Wendy really such a horrible teen daughter? Maybe... but they both seem to have warped memories and I'd love to know what the truth is. 

Hmmm.  Even with all Wendy's faults, I still had no trouble believing what she said about Evil Johnboy.  Now I wonder if I need to rethink that.

Edited May 2, 2022 by SoMuchTV

[IslandGirl]

3 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Hmmm.  Even with all Wendy's faults, I still had no trouble believing what she said about Evil Johnboy.  Now I wonder if I need to rethink that.

I think JohnBoyNathan demonstrated in those scenes with Ruth he was one mean drunk piece of shit. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. In fact, that was the first moment I softened slightly for a nanosecond towards Wendy. No difficult wild child turns their parent into a raging alcoholic; to me that’s like putting the cart before the horse…

[AmbrosiaK63]

IMHO, I see Wendy as a woman fighting against the oppressive nature of the men, outside of Marty, in this show.  Due to the harsh fundamentalism of her religious upbringing with a raging and abusive alcoholic, it made her adamant not to let anyone control her.  However, it has made her myopically invested in this whole cartel business and she lost sight of the real needs of her family.  Sadly, this episode made her seem more human in the last 5 minutes, albeit as a shell of her childhood self begging her Daddy to forgive her.

[sugarbaker design]

On 5/2/2022 at 9:21 PM, IslandGirl said:

I think JohnBoyNathan demonstrated in those scenes with Ruth he was one mean drunk piece of shit.

He demonstrated it on the courtroom steps with his daughter.  He could barely contain his rage and hatred for Wendy.  His Christianity is a mask, and it fell off, and he showed his real self.  Wendy has issues for sure, but she is spot-on about her father.

 

On 5/1/2022 at 9:19 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

That's fair, but it was a little too pat with one visit and conversation and that was that. The judge said she was going to find stuff no one else found. It was just a little too easy that Ruth was honest and that was it. 

 Let's not forget the judge was in the pocket of Wilkes, not some benevolent fairy godmother.  The expungement was in the bag, the rest was lip service.

 

On 4/30/2022 at 8:00 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm quite surprised that the kids decided to go to North Carolina. Charlotte was all in on the family business. Jonah is making massive bank laundering for Ruth (or was), but still gainfully employed managing the books for the motel. It was a missed opportunity in the scene with Ruth and Jonah at the motel for him to talk to her about why he wanted to leave. 

This is the part I'm having a tough time buying.  Jonah would never leave Ruth and the business, Charlotte would never leave her father.

 

On 4/29/2022 at 7:55 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

Was he *really* the abusive monster she claims? I can see some of it being true. Was Wendy really such a horrible teen daughter?

Both can be true, they're not mutually exclusive.

I loved the delicious irony of Saddem looking for Ben for two seasons, and ending up standing right next to the urn holding Ben's ashes at the counter of the Easy-O.

Edited May 4, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[Totale]

23 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I loved the delicious irony of Saddem looking for Ben for two seasons, and ending up standing right next to the urn holding Ben's ashes at the counter of the Easy-O.

Hasn't he seen it several times before at Ruth's, even asking for cookies?

[sugarbaker design]

54 minutes ago, Totale said:

Hasn't he seen it several times before at Ruth's, even asking for cookies?

Has he?  I didn't notice.  That's hysterical!

Edited May 5, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, IslandGirl said:

Yes, when he asked Ruth for a cookie from the goat cookie jar & she said there were no cookies, he immediately became suspicious & later commented that anyone who had a cookie jar would more than likely have cookies in it…

When he asked again later if she ever filled it up, she then told him to bring his own snacks as only Ruth can. 

tbh, it's kind of a dumb hunch on Mel's part. You can hide your weed in the cookie jar, gun, bong, whatever. For such a 'good cop' he seriously underestimated who he was dealing with and where he was.

[roughing it]

Mel noticed and mentioned the cookie jar a couple of times when at Ruth's.  (Although Ruth could have told him that it held her father's ashes, which Mel would probably not have thought anything about it further.)   Then when he saw the cookie jar at the motel he became suspicious, because...who brings their cookie jar to their place of business if not to share said cookies??  Not that it was tied to Jonah at that time yet, it was still in the office.

[iMonrey]

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Ruth got her record cleaned fairly quick and easy.

She also seems to have inherited Darlene's land/Wyatt's money quick and easy. Which is where I call bullshit. First of all, there would be lengthy court hearings to determine if Wyatt was even entitled to inherit Darlene's estate, let alone Ruth. Even then, the estate has to go through probate. It's not as if Ruth can just walk into the bank and ask for the money and they'll hand it right over. This show seems to have skipped a lot of steps or jumped forward in time.

Quote

He demonstrated it on the courtroom steps with his daughter.  He could barely contain his rage and hatred for Wendy.  His Christianity is a mask, and it fell off, and he showed his real self.  Wendy has issues for sure, but she is spot-on about her father.

I assumed Wendy was simply putting on an act to show her kids what her father was really like. It did expose him, but did nothing to change Jonah's or Charlotte's mind.

[EllaWycliffe]

I money, I get your point with the money not passing so quickly from Darlene's estate to Ruth... but if there's no protesting family, I don't know why it wouldn't pass to Ruth.... and Three 

[millennium]

I so wanna see a dysfunctional Waltons family reunion now.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I money, I get your point with the money not passing so quickly from Darlene's estate to Ruth... but if there's no protesting family, I don't know why it wouldn't pass to Ruth.... and Three 

Well, it might, but not automatically. They'd have to get a lawyer and go to court and petition the state for it. And there'd be a lengthy waiting period. Her claim is really weak. Her cousin was married to Darlene. It's not even automatic Darlene's estate would go to Wyatt let alone his cousin. I think the state would have a vested interest in claiming that estate for itself. It IS Missouri after all.

[EllaWycliffe]

Well, let's be honest. In reality if Wyatt's marriage meant he would get Darlene's estate, then realistically upon Wyatt's death it would pass to his brother, and Ruth wouldn't be part of the equation at all 

I don't know how the state of Missouri would be involved at all. Darlene's marriage was legal, if brief, she apparently has no relatives so the estate would fall to her husband's next of kin.

[Zonk]

On 5/4/2022 at 3:12 PM, sugarbaker design said:

 Let's not forget the judge was in the pocket of Wilkes, not some benevolent fairy godmother.  The expungement was in the bag, the rest was lip service.

The judge was specifically not corrupt, but a political aquaintance. So it wasn't in the bag.

 

[TVbitch]

Wendy's "don't take my kids" breakdown got zero sympathy from me. Even if her father was abusive to her, he seems to treat the kids okay, so why not stash them with him for a while as Wendy and Marty play out their crazy live and death end game, which could easily get those kids killed. Instead she tries to guilt them into staying. 

[Haleth]

On 4/29/2022 at 7:55 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

I find myself wondering what the actual story was - what Granpa Johnboy was really like, versus what Wendy was like as a kid.

I had been thinking that Wendy was remembering her childhood through Wendy colored glasses, but her scene on the courtroom steps ("Please, Daddy, I promise I'll be good.  Please, Daddy, don't do this!") came from somewhere.  How many times had that scene played over the course of her childhood?

Not that I sympathize with her now.

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well, it might, but not automatically. They'd have to get a lawyer and go to court and petition the state for it. And there'd be a lengthy waiting period. Her claim is really weak. Her cousin was married to Darlene. It's not even automatic Darlene's estate would go to Wyatt let alone his cousin. I think the state would have a vested interest in claiming that estate for itself. It IS Missouri after all.

19 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Well, let's be honest. In reality if Wyatt's marriage meant he would get Darlene's estate, then realistically upon Wyatt's death it would pass to his brother, and Ruth wouldn't be part of the equation at all 

I don't know how the state of Missouri would be involved at all. Darlene's marriage was legal, if brief, she apparently has no relatives so the estate would fall to her husband's next of kin.

Am I mistaken in thinking Darlene adopted the baby?  Was that not a legal adoption?  Why wouldn't her estate go to the baby?

[EllaWycliffe]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Am I mistaken in thinking Darlene adopted the baby?  Was that not a legal adoption?  Why wouldn't her estate go to the baby?

She was fostering Zeke with the intent to adopt (I jokingly call it "rent to own" with my friends who do it, but only when they're in good moods). Because Wendy ALSO wanted Zeke or at least didn't want Darlene to have him, she reported Darlene's poor health after Darlene's heart attack. Part of why Wyatt married Darlene was to make Darlene look like a more stable mom with a husband so that she could keep on fostering Zeke.

When Ruth found Darlene and Wyatt dead, she took Zeke and dropped him off with a friend and then returned Zeke to social services noting that Wendy and the Byrds in general should not be allowed to have the baby. Zeke then was never mentioned again....

[AZChristian]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Am I mistaken in thinking Darlene adopted the baby?  Was that not a legal adoption?  Why wouldn't her estate go to the baby?

She was a foster parent, arranged when Marty pulled a lot of strings.  Wendy threatened the foster child status by calling Social Services to report that Darlene had had a heart attack and wasn't really capable of caring for a baby.  That's why Wyatt proposed . . . so she wouldn't lose the baby back to Social Services.

Darlene probably would have sought to adopt him after she and Wyatt got married.  Except the short time they were married before Javi showed up wasn't really enough time to file the paperwork.

Edited May 8, 2022 by AZChristian

[iMonrey]

Quote

I don't know how the state of Missouri would be involved at all. 

In some states if you die without leaving a will, your estate goes to the state. Apparently in Missouri it goes to your closest relatives. Still, it seems like they'd be able to find a relative of Darlene's, no matter how distant, before they would allow Ruth to inherit everything. 

[TeeVeeWatcher]

On 5/5/2022 at 12:15 PM, roughing it said:

Mel noticed and mentioned the cookie jar a couple of times when at Ruth's.  (Although Ruth could have told him that it held her father's ashes, which Mel would probably not have thought anything about it further.)   Then when he saw the cookie jar at the motel he became suspicious, because...who brings their cookie jar to their place of business if not to share said cookies??  Not that it was tied to Jonah at that time yet, it was still in the office.

Ruth also told Mel that Ben wanted to "raise goats" - I think Mel is going to put it all together and not leave town after all. 

[Avabelle]

John Boy is such a good villain.

Rachel depresses the life out of me. She’s such a sad sack of a character. She was more ballsy when originally introduced. Life seemed to really beat her down.

[Jax7917]

On 5/7/2022 at 10:01 PM, TVbitch said:

Wendy's "don't take my kids" breakdown got zero sympathy from me. Even if her father was abusive to her, he seems to treat the kids okay, so why not stash them with him for a while as Wendy and Marty play out their crazy live and death end game, which could easily get those kids killed. Instead she tries to guilt them into staying. 

Yeah I agree. The kids are already being abused, even if it's not physically. I would think it's more unsafe to have your children involved in the cartel life where they can be killed at any moment if Wendy or Marty pisses them off. I too, was surprised that Charlotte and Jonah wanted to leave the business and go live in a different state with their grandfather, especially Jonah who seemed to be loving this new life of his.. but I guess they were doing what they had to do to survive. They didn't ask to have parents who were giving them a dangerous life and Wendy, for someone who says she wants to get out, sure doesn't act like it. I didn't feel badly for Wendy at all. She has turned into a monster and has made her own bed.

[SlovakPrincess]

"He was a pretty good cop before he stole coke ... but then, y'know, he stole coke ..."  LOL.  I'm disappointed in my boy Mel that he took the job knowing the Byrdes engineered it to stop his testimony - but apparently that was his AA sponsor on the phone encouraging him to go for it?   

"For drugs, bitch!"  I don't know why the guy in jail saying the to Ruth cracked me up so much, but LMAO.

I enjoyed Maya calling the Byrdes and her "oh great the whole brain trust is here!" when Wendy piped up.  

Charlotte is almost 18.  Jonah is a very old and worldly 15, hates his mother, and is committing crimes out of a motel room right now.  Both are in danger as long as they stay where they are (although by this point in the series, the danger seems laughable because the plot always saves them).  Sending them to NC voluntarily with Nathan for a bit wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing in the world -- and it's better to do it voluntarily than have a court order to that effect.  

Although having said that, next episode it will probably be revealed that Wendy is right and Nathan is still an abusive alcoholic.   Right now, I'm not sure if Nathan's rage is supposed to indicate he was (and still is) every bit as bad as Wendy claims ... or if he's just extremely angry that, y'know, his son was murdered and Wendy's been lying about it / was involved.  

Omar and Camila bore me.  Helen and Javi were more effectively scary and interesting.

Edited May 24, 2022 by SlovakPrincess