S14.E13: Popping the Questions

[LennieBriscoe]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Maybe Katina is exactly what Olajuwon needs but I don’t think it’s what she needs. She shouldn’t be responsible for being the peacekeeper in a relationship. She hasn’t said really anything this episode, it’s all Olajuwon, all the time.

I keep trying to find a reason to like him, but I’m done. Good luck, Katina. This show should be renamed, “Married at all Costs”. 

You know, we've all heard Big O use "wife" incessantly to refer to Katina. But isn't "Queen" also a popular term? I mean, yes, Katina is his wife, but the connotation there is of "She Who Must Stay Home and Care For Me"; whereas "Queen" connotes what Katina presents: a regal and beautiful  Black woman, if not "She Who Must Be Obeyed" then certainly  "She Who Should Be Honored." 

Olajuwon is blinded by his narcissism. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

Steve has had the same shitty experiences most of us have had, doing the grind and working under others. He got released from that stress and just really doesn't want to go back. Yes, we would all love to do that but he at least has a stable banking account while working in a field and has the connects to try something different. 

I've actually seen it happen plenty of times before. It's always we got to work, we have to work. Then, that job gets taken away from you. Instead of wallowing or living in the fear, it gives you a new lease on life. The courage and the freedom to do what you truly want to do.

Steve could get a full time job but he would be miserable. If they are going to work, they have to meet in the middle somewhere.

If Steve fails at starting a business or creating software he might have to get a full time job somewhere down the road and he did say he was open to that if necessary.  It's reality for anyone in his situation.  If his bank account is big enough he might have enough of a cushion to do what he wants to do, but the fact that Noi is still in the dark about what that figure is is troubling to me.  She has plenty of her own issues that concern me but this one is really his fault for not being open enough with her.  Like she did with Olaj, Pepper came on strong with Steve but then backed down when she should have stood up to him and told him he needs to reveal his savings to Noi at this point.  If they're already talking about having kids together it's not too much to ask.  If he doesn't want to reveal that number to her then they have to work on their trust with each other first before talking about having kids.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

Shit...Olajuwon had no interest in advice from a woman and he would have shut down even more if she pressed harder. There wasn't much she could do there.

I think Pepper wimped out.  That's the problem with Olajuwon, everyone male or female backs down to him.  I wouldn't have let that happen.  I would have unleashed my "Bronx" on him and told him point blank that he was full of shit and not let him BS me into backing off on that! 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Racj82 said:

If he has enough to pay 3 to 4 times their budget as he has said on the show and the afterparty then that's what I mean by stable. He's clearly not broke. He's already taking care of bills and doing his part. We've also heard elsewhere on the afterparty some of this address. He has much more than 40k stashed away at the very least.

None of that is the real issue. Noi will never feel stable with someone who isn't actively working on regular basis. 

We hear things after the fact but as of this episode it looks like Noi is still in the dark about that and that's the problem here. 

$40,000 was the number Noi came up with that would satisfy her financial insecurities.  It sounded like a lowball number, but if he has significantly more than that he needs to tell her.  I don't think she would be looking THIS worried if he did.

I didn't like it either when my husband stopped working for a company and started his own business, but when I saw that he had a lot of business I gradually stopped worrying about it.  I'm sure that if whatever Steve was doing didn't pan out he'd have plans B, C, and D as a backup plan.  He needs to communicate that to her so she stops worrying.  He seems to say a lot to the experts and the Afterparty but not to Noi herself because she is still acting like she's in the dark about it.

[kikicat]

O: "Katina's training is really coming along, she's shopping and cooking and obeying me just fine. I am not a bad guy, I'm just stern and don't you dare question me about that, Dr. P, or I'll tear into--I mean I'll loudly correct your opinions until you back down."

Dr. P: Okay, then.

K: 😔

 

[Jeanne222]

We've never really seen the real Mark because he's so busy playing defense to Lindsays constant offense!

She's what grandma would say is a handfull!

Re Steve and $40,000 these days is like peeing in the ocean!  It's surely not enough for a lifetime.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Jeanne222

[GettingGray]

I've watched this program since season 1.  I might be in the minority, but I think Dr Pepper gives good advice.  I thought she was spot on tonight.

However there will be some of you who thinks she comes up short.

[ChiMama]

3 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

That beach scene? Could Mark look any more indifferent? She leans to him, he leans away, not even looking at her.

As I recall, right before that she had once again unleashed publicly a litany of criticism about Mark. Pepper told her to be “softer” — but she was back to you, you, you complaints at the first opportunity to be the center of group drama. Mark has already said that makes him shut down and pull away — which he did. Was he supposed to reward her communication style & be happy about hearing the same nags? But she didn’t get called out for that at all; they focused on mark pulling away instead without delving into the reason.

[Remy20505]

I think Mark is going along for money and a place to live. Remember he doesn’t have an apartment after his bed bug infestation. 
He is looking for a mother figure not a wife. I don’t think Lindsey is all bad just very emotionally damaged from her past. She wants to feel she is loved and has value. 
Jasmina has no feelings at all for her husband. And he is afraid of her or coming off looking bad. 

Noi is annoying. Steve is very smart if you listen to him especially on after party. I looked up sales engineers salary at experian where he worked they make good money $ 119,000. He could be secretly wealthy and wants someone to love him for himself. 
 

[LennieBriscoe]

1 hour ago, ChiMama said:

As I recall, right before that she had once again unleashed publicly a litany of criticism about Mark. Pepper told her to be “softer” — but she was back to you, you, you complaints at the first opportunity to be the center of group drama. Mark has already said that makes him shut down and pull away — which he did. Was he supposed to reward her communication style & be happy about hearing the same nags? But she didn’t get called out for that at all; they focused on mark pulling away instead without delving into the reason.

I missed that prior scene. I will check it out, because the context is important. 

[Mercolleen]

7 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Noi wants what she sees as a traditional family unit: Husband goes to a job; wife might also, but then stays home to care for three---not one, not two, not four, and five is right out---children. 

Three shall be the number of the counting!

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, ChiMama said:

As I recall, right before that she had once again unleashed publicly a litany of criticism about Mark. Pepper told her to be “softer” — but she was back to you, you, you complaints at the first opportunity to be the center of group drama. Mark has already said that makes him shut down and pull away — which he did. Was he supposed to reward her communication style & be happy about hearing the same nags? But she didn’t get called out for that at all; they focused on mark pulling away instead without delving into the reason.

Lindsey really needed to be instructed on how to take ownership of her feelings without making everything sound like a put down or a criticism.  But the experts fell short of that with her and so this is what she thinks is telling him how she feels in a non-confrontational way.  It was still not constructive and will only make him pull away.  The advice they gave her was good to a point, like concentrating on the sadness instead of the anger, but it lacked that all important component.  She needed to be given concrete examples and how her approach is likely making him feel to get the picture.  She is so used to that kind of nasty banter with her mother that she is blind to what she is doing at this point.  I understand that she resorted to that kind of communication as a defense and coping mechanism with her mother, but she should really be aware of how destructive that is to any kind of relationship by this time in her life.

[Mr. Miner]

5 hours ago, GettingGray said:

However there will be some of you who thinks she comes up short.

I see what you did there!

[Yeah No]

Just now, Mr. Miner said:

5 hours ago, GettingGray said:

However there will be some of you who thinks she comes up short.

I see what you did there!

Speaking of that, I knew Pepper was really short, but when I saw that standard height kitchen counter come up above her chest when she met Lindsey I was truly shocked!  She's getting up there in age (76) so perhaps she has shrunk a little since the show started.  We all start to shrink a little by a certain age.  

[Koalagirl]

Would have been interesting to see the difference if Pastor Cal had spoken with Ola instead of Dr. Pepper.  He was so dismissive of her during and after their conversation.  I wouldn’t be surprised that it was set up that way because the producers were well aware of Ola’s misogyny. 

[Meowwww]

Dr Pepper is really phoning it in this season.  She referenced “the people who watch you every day tell me”…..back in the good ole days Pepper watched them along with the other so called experts. 
O is too much.  He makes me angry. Michael and Jasmina, I still can’t watch.  Too grim, too much silence.  No joy. 

[kristen111]

10 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Everyone is walking on eggshells around Olajuwon including his own wife. It's not cool at all.

Yeah, it’s like she’s under a spell or something.  She’s lost her umph.  Maybe he’s into some sort of cult.

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Yeah, it’s like she’s under a spell or something.  She’s lost her umph.  Maybe he’s into some sort of cult.

Yeah, this was my theory from another MAFS thread:

Don't quote me on this but my gut feeling is that Olaj's birth name was "Isaac" and he changed it to Olajuwon symbolize some kind of religious conversion he went through.  I was a student of both Psychology and Theology and the way he presents himself feels similar to other people I've known about (some famous) that have almost completely changed their values and identities almost overnight based on some kind of religious conversion.   Who knows what he believes in now?  He may have adopted old fashioned values on women and women's wifely roles as a result.  Many big religions can be interpreted to suit some kind of male chauvinist philosophy.  I don't interpret my religion that way, but Olaj may be following a group or sect that does.  So I would totally believe that this "new" person wants to hold off on sex because he is now trying to be just the opposite of what he was before his conversion.  He reminds me of a sex addict that treats sex like an alcoholic treats alcohol after they've been through the 12 step program of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[kristen111]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

If Steve fails at starting a business or creating software he might have to get a full time job somewhere down the road and he did say he was open to that if necessary.  It's reality for anyone in his situation.  If his bank account is big enough he might have enough of a cushion to do what he wants to do, but the fact that Noi is still in the dark about what that figure is is troubling to me.  She has plenty of her own issues that concern me but this one is really his fault for not being open enough with her.  Like she did with Olaj, Pepper came on strong with Steve but then backed down when she should have stood up to him and told him he needs to reveal his savings to Noi at this point.  If they're already talking about having kids together it's not too much to ask.  If he doesn't want to reveal that number to her then they have to work on their trust with each other first before talking about having kids.

Yup.

[Jax7917]

12 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Olajuwon thinks he is perfect, and that his way is the highway.   he also thinks he’s Katrina’s better.  Just what changes has he made in himself? 
 

Not every social media meme is about the poster at that moment… but Noi’s post obviously was and she’s not sorry at all.  

Olaj is weird because he's very good at noticing other people's flaws (like Alyssa, Lindsay). He's dead on with what he says about them. But he has no self-awareness whatsoever. He thinks he doesn't talk down to Katina and that he's this perfect guy.

Noi creeps me out, I don't know why. I always find it odd when someone puts too much on social media. Too attention craving. And the fact that he's telling her it bothers him when she does that and she's just like , "oh well." She always does this thing with her eyes where she's looking through the side of them and looks so scared but also blank at the same time. I wouldn't want to be married to her.

However, I am on her side with the Steve not working or having a plan thing. Do I want to get up and work 5 days a week? No. Does it put a damper on other things i'd like to do such as hobbies and waking up late? Yes. But that doesn't matter. Work is something you have to do whether you want to or not, because you know, it's how you make money. Having a savings doesn't matter. You can't survive off it forever unless you're Jeff Bezos. At some point, even if you have a couple hundred thousand saved, you need incoming money. I just don't get why Noi is so scared to say that to his face. What is the big deal?

[Mr. Miner]

33 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

Noi creeps me out, I don't know why. I always find it odd when someone puts too much on social media.

It seems like that's the only thing that gets his attention. They're both boring AF and their voices are very annoying.

[Shauna]

10 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

You know, we've all heard Big O use "wife" incessantly to refer to Katina. But isn't "Queen" also a popular term? I mean, yes, Katina is his wife, but the connotation there is of "She Who Must Stay Home and Care For Me"; whereas "Queen" connotes what Katina presents: a regal and beautiful  Black woman, if not "She Who Must Be Obeyed" then certainly  "She Who Should Be Honored." 

Olajuwon is blinded by his narcissism. 

He says wife as if she is his possession.    Really pisses me off.  As someone else mentioned, she's not strong enough to be his partner.

[Elizzikra]

I could not concentrate on anything during the beach volleyball scene other than that disgusting "sand." It looked like cornmeal.

[Retired at last]

11 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Olajuwon is blinded by his narcissism

And his misogeny. Great combination. What a prize he is. And a fabulous job of matching with a woman who has been in abusive relationships. Bravo show. Of course, Katina says nothing. She is scared to. After all, she is HIS wife and participates in HIS marriage. YUCK.

I have had more than enough of pouty Miss Noi. When she came right out and said that she understood why Steve (and PC) felt hurt when she goes all SM whenever she wants to, BUT, they will have to agree to disagree as it is her life and she will continue to live her life as she wants, Steve needed to be done. She is nowhere near being ready for a real committed relationship where you WANT to consider the feelings of the person you love. And if she is bringing that much baggage from her past that mandates that she live in fear of everything, the show has done her a great disservice by selecting her. And poor Steve is supposed to be an instant shrink and change what he needs to give her everything she wants? Even he realizes that she has no idea what she wants when she wants a baby in a year and also wants to move into separate living quarters. What is she going to do - text him to come over and change a diaper? She is actually my least favorite from this season, which has so many options. I don't think he was suggesting that neither of them work - he was just giving her the option to find out what she wants. I do believe he has plenty of money and was more than happy to give her some time to not worry about working. Especially if she plans to have a baby this soon. BIG mistake.

Mark just can't be with Lindsay, or maybe anyone right now. He is also too broken and needs serious therapy. Same with Lindsay. I understand that no normal person will be signing up for this show, and maybe these people were the best of the pathetic bunch, but it is no longer any fun and there is nothing even entertaining about watching these very broken people be pushed into a relationship that none of them are ready for.

Great job, Cal - tell a man whose wife feels nothing when he touches her to keep touching her.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Retired at last

[geej]

In the previews, I too was concerned with what they showed of Lindsey. Can we talk about that yet?

[kristen111]

4 minutes ago, geej said:

In the previews, I too was concerned with what they showed of Lindsey. Can we talk about that yet?

Don’t think so.  Only this episode.

[Yeah No]

40 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

46 minutes ago, geej said:

In the previews, I too was concerned with what they showed of Lindsey. Can we talk about that yet?

Don’t think so.  Only this episode.

I think it would be OK in the spoilers and speculation thread.

[sara416]

Watching Mark and Lindsay with the experts solidified what I said about last week's episode. If they can get some individual and couples therapy, I really think they will be okay. Lindsay seemed to be accepting of what Pepper said to her, she just needs some time and reminders to put it into place. Not to mention, she's clearly never dealt with the rejection from her mother. When Mark said he's never been asked that question before about turning into his dad, I literally yelled at my TV "That's because you've never been to therapy!". All he had to do was reach out and hold Lindsay's hand when she was crying and vulnerable and clearly wanting his support and he was just frozen. They have some cute moments, and can say positive things about each other. They just need to do some work on themselves to make it better. 

[Ilovepie]

14 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Well, I guess, Olajuwon just proved Pepper’s points in his response to her. I thought she was going to go out there and confront him but she pretty much just let him have the room again. Maybe she did, but they didn’t film it.  

This! Oh that was frustrating to watch! Why the hell didn't she show up with a little video camera and play back directly to him all the times he said demeaning and condescending things. No, Olajuwon, it's not "he said, she said". It's not open to interpretation. You actually said those things, and they are unequivocally abusive, demeaning and rude. Period. There is no argument to be made. She needed to be way more direct that the way he speaks to and about Katina is inappropriate. Instead, she backed down. He is a bully and Dr. Pepper got bullied. Should have sent PC to him instead - O is a misogynistic asshole who wasn't going to take direction from that midget woman.

For some reason, he thinks he is Katina's judge and jury, and while he may have expectations of what he wants from "his wife", has anyone asked Katina what her expectations are regarding "her husband"? I was fuming when he said "I see so much improvement". WHAT!!!!!  He pisses me off so much and nobody, including "his wife" calls him on his utter and total bullshit. I really hope by now he has seen all of the social media out there flaming the way he talks to and treats Katina. Disgusting.

Olajuwon, Lindsey and Noi all have the same problem - inability to take ownership of their own bad behavior. Because of that, it is doomed to continue. Noi was such a pouty child sitting there getting chastised by her parent. "It wasn't about you." Hee Hee "it was about you." "Pastor Cal is right about posting problems on social media, but it's my social media so I should be able to post what I want".  Grow the fuck up. Mature adults don't passive aggressively air dirty laundry about their marriage on IG, especially if their spouse has explicitly said Do Not Do This! And Lindsey - I have no more words. She and Mark both need a lot of therapy. Separately. What is the saying? Hurt people hurt people? That's these two. They are actually the worst for each other as they both trigger each other's past parental trauma. When Cal asked Mark if he could see himself as reacting the way his dad reacted to his mom, it was like a light bulb went on. It was hard to watch. I think that was the moment Mark realized what was happening and it ended for him. He's just playing this out waiting for DD. Nothing good will come from them staying together - just their parents abuse being repeated in the next generation. Actually very sad watching this play out in real time.

I feel like Mike and Jasmina had a very mature, thoughtful discussion. They both were honest and listened to each other. But holy hell, these two are boring. There's just no spark. I feel like discussions of chemistry are overrated, but in this case, there really is just none there. Two mostly nice people that just absolutely do not belong together.

This was the first episode I have watched in three weeks and I don't think I missed a thing. They repeat everything so much it actually made zero difference. Same arguments, different episode. They need to cut these seasons down by about 4 episodes. Seriously. But I am here for

Spoiler

Lindsey jumping out of the moving car next week!

 

[Kira53]

7 hours ago, Meowwww said:

Dr Pepper is really phoning it in this season.  She referenced “the people who watch you every day tell me”…..back in the good ole days Pepper watched them along with the other so called experts. 
O is too much.  He makes me angry. Michael and Jasmina, I still can’t watch.  Too grim, too much silence.  No joy. 

(She )Dr. Pepper, should have been direct - “I saw you......” and “You said ......”. He heard it as though people were gossiping about him rather than this is a fact. I don’t know why she wimped out like that, but it was very unhelpful. Olajuwon needs to be directly confronted with his behavior for him to even look at it!  He heard it as though people were gossiping about him rather than this is a fact.  I’d love to see the experts say things like, "let’s go to the videotape." Lindsay needs the same treatment - direct confrontation of what she said and what she did, in the order that she did, it so that she could possibly see that she is in control of how Mark is reacting.  what she thinks is inconsistent because Lindsey is inconsistent and mean and nasty as hell.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Kira53

[psychoticstate]

I have missed the last few weeks of MAFS due to work commitments . . . and I've realized I don't really care.  I read the comments here and listen to YouTubers talk about it and I'm good. 

None of these folks should stay together so just end it now.  Olajuwon is a chauvinistic, abusive pig, Katina is in a hostage situation, Lindsay and Mark both need therapy, independent of each other, Noi is a child, Steve is allergic to work, Jasmina has zero feels for Michael and Michael is afraid of her.  Crazy to say but once Chris and Alyssa were done, so was this season pretty much.  

Mark down Mr. Feany, Sushi and the cats that own Lindsay and Mark as the only ones from this season I'd want to hang with.  (I'm not counting Chris, since he's basically no longer on the show)

[bichonblitz]

16 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

The experts shouldn't  encourage  Katina to stay. 

Olaj is a gaslighting verbally abusive ass. He should be kicked off the show now. Anybody that shows abusive signs needs to go. No more discussion needed. The experts need to stop trying to reason with these idiots and cut their losses. Of course, it is a televised show so if they give every abusive jerk the boot what would be left for us to see?  

I would have loved to see Olaj matched with that cold fish Jasmina. She wouldn't take a minute of his bullshit and would jump at the chance to call him out at every opportunity. It could have been glorious to watch.

Noi is a immature and has delusional ideas of what a successful relationship is. I also don't believe Steve has any money. Just enough to get by, pay his bills and that's it. When the money runs low, he works for a while until he saves some more then off he goes again. It's a cycle. Work, save, quit, spend. If he wants to live like that, it's his choice, stay single but don't drag a wife and kids in to your lifestyle. 

My second Steve theory is that I think it's possible he applied for this gig while he was still working, had a good job, then got laid off. He wasn't expecting to be chosen to join the show. Now he's trying to make the best of his unemployment without looking like a lazy bum on TV.  

[becauseIsaidso]

I consider everything I viewed during this episode, including the previews of the next episode, to be fair game for this board.

I was initially shocked at the preview that showed Lindsay apparently leaving a moving vehicle, BUT when I saw the next shot of her in a hospital, which was, granted, VERY quick, there did not seem to be any damage at all to her face - and I cannot imagine exiting a moving vehicle without causing visible damage. So I think the scenario of her having food poisoning and needing to - ahem - egest quickly was reasonable. I have, at least once - experienced a stomach sick  person in a vehicle I was driving needing to  hurl - but they simply rolled down the window and did the deed - NOT open the door! Naturally the car had to be hosed off - but that's a whole lot better than someone falling out of the car.

I also could swear that a part of the previews mentioned TWO MORE COUPLES LEAVING the 'experiment!!!! HOLY CRAP - did I hear that correctly? Was I having a Turkey Parmesan (YUM) induced hallucination?

TWO MORE!?!?!?!?!   If that is true, I REALLY, REALLY hope Katina is one who bails out. I see Jasmina and Michael (no real excitement there) as sloughing through to the official decision day, and Mark and Lindsay are such a train wreck they could go either way. But Katina really needs to get away from such a nasty, egotistical, narcissistic and potentially abusive control freak as Olaj. I found the discussion of his possible prior name and possible religious conversion interesting. Does embracing a new faith path absolve someone of responsibility/acknowledgement/accountability of/and/for previous bad/nasty/horrendous behavior?NO. H to the ELL NO!

I am re-watching the episode to try and catch what I may have missed - and even in the first quarter hour I just wanted to smack Olaj upside the head...multiple times.  He just can't open his nasty mouth without talking to Katina like she is a piece of shit. I truly hoped she walked out on his nasty ass before 'decision day'. All his excuses to Dr. whimpy-pepper were self-serving beyond the pale. He is dangerous. Stern?!?!?!  'Absolutley not' 'Of course I apologized' - BULLSHIT.

This season will go down in infamy.

On the rerun - did 'pastor' CAL just make make EXCUSES for Olaj's behavior because of what he (supposedly) has gone through before?  Oh, HELL NO!!!!!! Guese the 'pastor' belongs to the 'boys will be boys' mindset. Fuck that.

Just after I posted this, came the scene where Olaj is half-reclining in his seat, looking at Dr. Pepper like she is some inferior POS and he is godalmighty....I really think this is Olaj's attitude to ALL women - they are all beneath him, they are not to be taken seriously - they NEED to be educated BY HIM....he totally disgusts me.

Edited April 7, 2022 by becauseIsaidso
a bit more 20/20 hindsight

[Mr. Miner]

4 hours ago, becauseIsaidso said:

Guese the 'pastor' belongs to the 'boys will be boys' mindset. Fuck that.

I keep waiting for Pastor Cal to just come right out and say "did you tap that yet?”.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mr. Miner

[qtpye]

20 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Welp, this conversation between Dr. Pepper and Olajuwon went south really fast. He got so defensive. He truly believes he doesn’t talk down to Katina which he does. 

 

20 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Olajuwon thinks he is perfect, and that his way is the highway.   he also thinks he’s Katrina’s better.  Just what changes has he made in himself? 
 

 

Olaj has admitted that he manipulates women.  I think that he likes to slowly gas light and break down women in order to control them and put himself in a superior position.

In the beginning, Katina seemed like a confident vibrant woman. Now she seems beaten down and lost.

[becauseIsaidso]

Holy crap, 'pastor' cal just VALIDATED all of Olaj's nastiness! AND allowed Olaj to act as if HE/Olaj the asshole had schooled her/Dr. Pepper. This has really devolved to a cesspool of misogynistic bullshit. I don't think I can keep watching with either my sanity or self-respect intact.

[kristen111]

6 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

This! Oh that was frustrating to watch! Why the hell didn't she show up with a little video camera and play back directly to him all the times he said demeaning and condescending things. No, Olajuwon, it's not "he said, she said". It's not open to interpretation. You actually said those things, and they are unequivocally abusive, demeaning and rude. Period. There is no argument to be made. She needed to be way more direct that the way he speaks to and about Katina is inappropriate. Instead, she backed down. He is a bully and Dr. Pepper got bullied. Should have sent PC to him instead - O is a misogynistic asshole who wasn't going to take direction from that midget woman.

For some reason, he thinks he is Katina's judge and jury, and while he may have expectations of what he wants from "his wife", has anyone asked Katina what her expectations are regarding "her husband"? I was fuming when he said "I see so much improvement". WHAT!!!!!  He pisses me off so much and nobody, including "his wife" calls him on his utter and total bullshit. I really hope by now he has seen all of the social media out there flaming the way he talks to and treats Katina. Disgusting.

Olajuwon, Lindsey and Noi all have the same problem - inability to take ownership of their own bad behavior. Because of that, it is doomed to continue. Noi was such a pouty child sitting there getting chastised by her parent. "It wasn't about you." Hee Hee "it was about you." "Pastor Cal is right about posting problems on social media, but it's my social media so I should be able to post what I want".  Grow the fuck up. Mature adults don't passive aggressively air dirty laundry about their marriage on IG, especially if their spouse has explicitly said Do Not Do This! And Lindsey - I have no more words. She and Mark both need a lot of therapy. Separately. What is the saying? Hurt people hurt people? That's these two. They are actually the worst for each other as they both trigger each other's past parental trauma. When Cal asked Mark if he could see himself as reacting the way his dad reacted to his mom, it was like a light bulb went on. It was hard to watch. I think that was the moment Mark realized what was happening and it ended for him. He's just playing this out waiting for DD. Nothing good will come from them staying together - just their parents abuse being repeated in the next generation. Actually very sad watching this play out in real time.

I feel like Mike and Jasmina had a very mature, thoughtful discussion. They both were honest and listened to each other. But holy hell, these two are boring. There's just no spark. I feel like discussions of chemistry are overrated, but in this case, there really is just none there. Two mostly nice people that just absolutely do not belong together.

This was the first episode I have watched in three weeks and I don't think I missed a thing. They repeat everything so much it actually made zero difference. Same arguments, different episode. They need to cut these seasons down by about 4 episodes. Seriously. But I am here for

  Reveal spoiler

Lindsey jumping out of the moving car next week!

 

Well that was a dumb thing she did. She could have caused major damage to herself, him and others.  Pity Party coming up.  She’s really reaching now.

[kristen111]

I don’t get this bad parenting that Lindsey and Mark have suffered with therefor having issues now with a partner.  Not everyone has loving parents.  I never got hugs and kisses or advice from my parents.  My Mother who worked full time just always told me “clean the house, iron the clothes, etc, etc.  Never a kind word.  Never said I looked nice.  I understood tho that she was tired of the grind everyday, and not having any fun.  She was overwhelmed, and I understood.  With my three kids, I hug and kiss them, tell them positive things, and are there for them all the time.  I had a strong mind and didn’t let it affect me, as I understood.  I don’t know Lindsey’s story or Marks about their parents, or if they were abused.  I don’t remember their stories, but it seems that they are blaming their parents for being screwed up.  Not every kid has loving parents, and they do o.k.

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

This! Oh that was frustrating to watch! Why the hell didn't she show up with a little video camera and play back directly to him all the times he said demeaning and condescending things. No, Olajuwon, it's not "he said, she said". It's not open to interpretation. You actually said those things, and they are unequivocally abusive, demeaning and rude. Period. There is no argument to be made. She needed to be way more direct that the way he speaks to and about Katina is inappropriate. Instead, she backed down. He is a bully and Dr. Pepper got bullied. Should have sent PC to him instead - O is a misogynistic asshole who wasn't going to take direction from that midget woman.

For some reason, he thinks he is Katina's judge and jury, and while he may have expectations of what he wants from "his wife", has anyone asked Katina what her expectations are regarding "her husband"? I was fuming when he said "I see so much improvement". WHAT!!!!!  He pisses me off so much and nobody, including "his wife" calls him on his utter and total bullshit. I really hope by now he has seen all of the social media out there flaming the way he talks to and treats Katina. Disgusting.

Olajuwon, Lindsey and Noi all have the same problem - inability to take ownership of their own bad behavior. Because of that, it is doomed to continue. Noi was such a pouty child sitting there getting chastised by her parent. "It wasn't about you." Hee Hee "it was about you." "Pastor Cal is right about posting problems on social media, but it's my social media so I should be able to post what I want".  Grow the fuck up. Mature adults don't passive aggressively air dirty laundry about their marriage on IG, especially if their spouse has explicitly said Do Not Do This! And Lindsey - I have no more words. She and Mark both need a lot of therapy. Separately. What is the saying? Hurt people hurt people? That's these two. They are actually the worst for each other as they both trigger each other's past parental trauma. When Cal asked Mark if he could see himself as reacting the way his dad reacted to his mom, it was like a light bulb went on. It was hard to watch. I think that was the moment Mark realized what was happening and it ended for him. He's just playing this out waiting for DD. Nothing good will come from them staying together - just their parents abuse being repeated in the next generation. Actually very sad watching this play out in real time.

I feel like Mike and Jasmina had a very mature, thoughtful discussion. They both were honest and listened to each other. But holy hell, these two are boring. There's just no spark. I feel like discussions of chemistry are overrated, but in this case, there really is just none there. Two mostly nice people that just absolutely do not belong together.

This was the first episode I have watched in three weeks and I don't think I missed a thing. They repeat everything so much it actually made zero difference. Same arguments, different episode. They need to cut these seasons down by about 4 episodes. Seriously. But I am here for

  Reveal spoiler

Lindsey jumping out of the moving car next week!

 

This gets my vote for best post in the thread so far!  It's like you're reading my mind again, thank you!

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, kristen111 said:

I don’t get this bad parenting that Lindsey and Mark have suffered with therefor having issues now with a partner.  Not everyone has loving parents.  I never got hugs and kisses or advice from my parents.  My Mother who worked full time just always told me “clean the house, iron the clothes, etc, etc.  Never a kind word.  Never said I looked nice.  I understood tho that she was tired of the grind everyday, and not having any fun.  She was overwhelmed, and I understood.  With my three kids, I hug and kiss them, tell them positive things, and are there for them all the time.  I had a strong mind and didn’t let it affect me, as I understood.  I don’t know Lindsey’s story or Marks about their parents, or if they were abused.  I don’t remember their stories, but it seems that they are blaming their parents for being screwed up.  Not every kid has loving parents, and they do o.k.

I think we are being given the impression that both Mark and Lindsey had worse than just parents that weren't always nice or were stressed out, but family situations that included very damaging verbal abuse.  My best friend was verbally abused by her mother.  I know her since high school and witnessed it a couple of times myself.  It made any arguments my mother and I had look like absolutely NOTHING.  I never knew that parents could be that horrible to their children until then and my heart absolutely broke for her.  I still feel sorry for my friend.  She was so damaged by her mother's abuse that she was  never able to have a successful romantic relationship and has not had a boyfriend in 30 years (she is going to be 64 next week).  Very sad.  Everyone reacts to abuse like that differently.  My friend took it out on herself and never felt good enough.  In Lindsey's case, she fought back and became abusive herself.  Either way, it often results in a person that has difficulty finding successful long term romantic relationships.

In Mark's case it sounds like he was very hurt hearing his parents nasty arguments and it made him very averse to any kind of conflict, to the point that he has trouble being assertive and avoids any kind of confrontation even when it might be good for him to do that.  He may also be very afraid to get too close to someone, especially someone like Lindsey that treats him the way his mother treated his father.  And who can blame him for that?  

[endure]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:01 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Maybe Katina is exactly what Olajuwon needs but I don’t think it’s what she needs. She shouldn’t be responsible for being the peacekeeper in a relationship. She hasn’t said really anything this episode, it’s all Olajuwon, all the time.

I keep trying to find a reason to like him, but I’m done. Good luck, Katina. This show should be renamed, “Married at all Costs”. 

Agree and he will continue to hurt her and abuse her emotionally and she will walk on eggshells when things are good just waiting for the drama….it’s desperation marriages for some. And I don’t believe they’ve even consummated their marriage yet.  I hope she’s smarter than than i think she is, she’s hard to read.  Yet I like her, she seems like a sweet person who doesn’t deserve this. I too don’t like him, he is a hot head narcissist imo.

Edited April 10, 2022 by endure

[endure]

On 4/6/2022 at 9:07 PM, Yeah No said:

We hear things after the fact but as of this episode it looks like Noi is still in the dark about that and that's the problem here. 

$40,000 was the number Noi came up with that would satisfy her financial insecurities.  It sounded like a lowball number, but if he has significantly more than that he needs to tell her.  I don't think she would be looking THIS worried if he did.

I didn't like it either when my husband stopped working for a company and started his own business, but when I saw that he had a lot of business I gradually stopped worrying about it.  I'm sure that if whatever Steve was doing didn't pan out he'd have plans B, C, and D as a backup plan.  He needs to communicate that to her so she stops worrying.  He seems to say a lot to the experts and the Afterparty but not to Noi herself because she is still acting like she's in the dark about it.

If i were Steve honestly I wouldn’t be sharing a lot with Noi either because she is not even planning to be living with him after and she will go on social media and say whatever. I think Steve is probably a fairly private person, and is not about to reveal his finances or long term career goals on a reality TV show. I can totally respect that and  it’s not like he is some low life sponging off her.  She needs find a different guy and he def will be better off and happier without her.  I hope they don’t stay together.

[endure]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:23 PM, Racj82 said:

Steve has had the same shitty experiences most of us have had, doing the grind and working under others. He got released from that stress and just really doesn't want to go back. Yes, we would all love to do that but he at least has a stable banking account while working in a field and has the connects to try something different. 

I've actually seen it happen plenty of times before. It's always we got to work, we have to work. Then, that job gets taken away from you. Instead of wallowing or living in the fear, it gives you a new lease on life. The courage and the freedom to do what you truly want to do.

Steve could get a full time job but he would be miserable. If they are going to work, they have to meet in the middle somewhere.

Noi has expectations about her life and she is actually her own worst enemy, she really needs to be more flexible and trusting especially marrying a stranger.  

[cardigirl]

On 4/6/2022 at 10:07 PM, kristen111 said:

The experts are trying to change everyone, but it doesn’t work.  They are who they are.  They all have to take the person the way they are, or forget it.  I’ll bet a lot of couples that go for councelling, fail and get divorced.  I’ve seen many friends get divorced after councelling.  Most people cannot change.  My husband and I have little in common; we both like different things, but there’s love here from the beginning for over fifty years.  Lots of patience too.

The reason marriage counseling fails so often is that by the time the couple decides to try it, one of them is done and has left the relationship, at least mentally. It's usually a last-ditch effort to try and save something that has been broken for a while. I'm not saying it never works, but people have to be vigilant in their relationships, and often they aren't. They miss the signs that something is off, or they just don't know how to fix it by themselves.

Counseling is helpful, I believe, if it is used early enough in marriage. These are newlywed couples who didn't have the time to get to know each other before being married. Counseling is a very good thing right now. It can help them navigate their differences, like how they view finances or work ethic, or how to be present for each other. How do they resolve conflict? Maybe they can learn new patterns of communication that help resolve conflict. Individuals get so focused on their own thoughts and ways of doing things, plus throw in the stress of making a living and providing for each other, that they often don't think there is another way of looking at things. 

However, it's been said by many that this show doesn't seem to use the counselors early enough or often enough. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by cardigirl

[Jeanne222]

We've never really seen the real Mark because he's so busy playing defense to Lindsays constant offense!

She's what grandma would say is a handfull!

Wasn't Noi the girl with the split personality dancing on rooftops back during the interviews?

I thought the look on Noi's face when Steve suggested she join him in unemployment was priceless!

[kristen111]

18 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

Olaj is a gaslighting verbally abusive ass. He should be kicked off the show now. Anybody that shows abusive signs needs to go. No more discussion needed. The experts need to stop trying to reason with these idiots and cut their losses. Of course, it is a televised show so if they give every abusive jerk the boot what would be left for us to see?  

I would have loved to see Olaj matched with that cold fish Jasmina. She wouldn't take a minute of his bullshit and would jump at the chance to call him out at every opportunity. It could have been glorious to watch.

Noi is a immature and has delusional ideas of what a successful relationship is. I also don't believe Steve has any money. Just enough to get by, pay his bills and that's it. When the money runs low, he works for a while until he saves some more then off he goes again. It's a cycle. Work, save, quit, spend. If he wants to live like that, it's his choice, stay single but don't drag a wife and kids in to your lifestyle. 

My second Steve theory is that I think it's possible he applied for this gig while he was still working, had a good job, then got laid off. He wasn't expecting to be chosen to join the show. Now he's trying to make the best of his unemployment without looking like a lazy bum on TV.  

Yes to everything.  I think we all could choose much better.  They choose for drama.  That’s all.  Those three are just fillers.  I see Miss Fancy Pants sex therapist is gone.  Good.  Sex isn’t everything .. it helps, but is not everything if you are married to a maniac, male or female in this case.

Edited April 8, 2022 by kristen111

[Lindz]

On 4/6/2022 at 6:03 PM, mythoughtis said:

She treats Mark like her mother treated her 

THIS!!!! She said her mother cut her down, does she not see she does the same?!!! DP should've asked her that, like PC asked Mark about his dad.

[kristen111]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think we are being given the impression that both Mark and Lindsey had worse than just parents that weren't always nice or were stressed out, but family situations that included very damaging verbal abuse.  My best friend was verbally abused by her mother.  I know her since high school and witnessed it a couple of times myself.  It made any arguments my mother and I had look like absolutely NOTHING.  I never knew that parents could be that horrible to their children until then and my heart absolutely broke for her.  I still feel sorry for my friend.  She was so damaged by her mother's abuse that she was  never able to have a successful romantic relationship and has not had a boyfriend in 30 years (she is going to be 64 next week).  Very sad.  Everyone reacts to abuse like that differently.  My friend took it out on herself and never felt good enough.  In Lindsey's case, she fought back and became abusive herself.  Either way, it often results in a person that has difficulty finding successful long term romantic relationships.

In Mark's case it sounds like he was very hurt hearing his parents nasty arguments and it made him very averse to any kind of conflict, to the point that he has trouble being assertive and avoids any kind of confrontation even when it might be good for him to do that.  He may also be very afraid to get too close to someone, especially someone like Lindsey that treats him the way his mother treated his father.  And who can blame him for that?  

I wasn’t abused, just never got a compliment or hugs .. only orders of what to do.  Once in awhile, we got smacked and punished, but I guess it was frustration on my mother’s part.  The day I was happy and felt freed was when I went to work in the city.  Met wonderful guys and girls, went out all over the city, skiing, sports clubs, etc., then met my husband there.  Fell in love the first day almost, and got married two years later.  My past did not affect me, and I was happy to get the hell out of the house and move away, but I still went and helped my parents out and had them over a lot.  I understood they had a hard life and were bitter.  My Mother and Father had an arranged marriage, so she never really loved him, and he was a great man.  Maybe that’s why she was unhappy too.  You just can’t marry someone you don’t love.  In a weird way, my mother maybe was slightly jealous that I had a life she dreamed of.  You can’t marry if there is no love there from the beginning.  Like these on the show.  It’s a fluke when they stay together.  I would say at this point, none of them belong together.   Btw, I think the majority of men hate confrontation.  I know my husband does.  Whenever I start up with him, he clams up and goes into another room.  Most men are not that verbal, like Oj.  He is a monster.  Katina better say no.  He’s not the only man in the world, can’t she see that, or is she stupid?  The guy is a walking time bomb.  I’m wondering if they are still together.  If the experts are real, they better warn her to hit the road and say NO.
 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by kristen111

[sara416]

On 4/6/2022 at 10:51 PM, LennieBriscoe said:

You know, we've all heard Big O use "wife" incessantly to refer to Katina. But isn't "Queen" also a popular term? I mean, yes, Katina is his wife, but the connotation there is of "She Who Must Stay Home and Care For Me"; whereas "Queen" connotes what Katina presents: a regal and beautiful  Black woman, if not "She Who Must Be Obeyed" then certainly  "She Who Should Be Honored." 

Olajuwon is blinded by his narcissism. 

The "queen" thing reminds me of Chicago Nate. *shudders* Ick.

[Lindz]

Does Lindsey even think things through? WHAT does she expect from complaining?!?!!! What did she think would happen? Did she really think he'd want to "fix" things after hearing her complaints? It's hard to watch the same struggle over & over. They just get stuck in an unproductive cycle. How have the "experts" not given them tips on how to discuss things by now?!