S06.E04: Hour of the Wolf

[Athena]

Quote

While visiting the Cherokee, Ian encounters a man from his past who dredges up painful memories of his time with the Mohawk. Jamie meets an Indian Agent who challenges his convictions, causing him to re-evaluate.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[andidante]

I just wanted to hug Ian through this whole episode! 

[bluestocking]

Interesting to see a whole Ian-centric episode.  Good to finally get the story of his life among the Mohawk.  There was a brief mention in the credits to the Six Nations for their help, so hopefully the dialogue, costumes, etc. were authentic.

John Bell is so strong in this.  Strong enough to carry an episode, unlike poor Sophie, who seems to still struggle with an American accent.  

[ali59]

That Malva gets creepier every episode!

[nara]

I loved hearing Ian’s story. I haven’t been that interested in the story since they came to America, but I found this really compelling.

Malva is going to end up being burned as a witch. She is Laoghaire + Single White Female X The Witch

 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, WatcherUatl10 said:

Ian's story was interesting, but didn't he say in a previous episode that he had a wife and kids who were Natives, and that's why he felt so strongly aligned? People don't usually ONLY refer to those kids who didn't survive when they say that. Maybe I am confused.

He told Marsali he had a child, past tense. That's why he was so sad when he told her. And suicidal in the previous season.

[Glade]

I'm glad we finally found out what happened to Ian when he was with the mohawks, though it was very sad, he lost everything.  I do wish that drunken idiot had been shot in the end, or that Jaime had spoken up about the land-scam he was running when he was asked to vouch for this fool.  I really preferred it when Marsali was Claire's apprentice; hopefully she will resume that role after her maternity leave (and maybe Claire will finally give her the contraceptives/family planning advice she promised her back in Jamaica.)  I don't like plot-device Malva, and am glad that this episode was primarily about the established characters/stories we came for, not her or the rest of her plot-device family. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Glade

[Hanahope]

I wondered if Ian and "Emily" had a positive/negative blood type reaction that caused the miscarriages when the baby had a different blood type from Emily.  What would have happened if Emily' had chosen an native-american husband and had the same problem?  I hope Ian can find a new love and not Malva.

Jamie's advice to the Cherokee chief was interesting.  they're supposed to hide?  How will that work?  are there places a whole tribe could really hide away from the onslaught of settlers and an army?  I would have thought better advice was to start working their way west now, so they won't be fully uprooted in 60 years, but already resettled elsewhere.

[kwnyc]

This was my favorite episode of the season. Really strong acting by John Bell, and a heartbreaking story. Ian can be both Mohawk and Scottish. Jamie was good with the advice as well. Being a benevolent patriarch suits him.

In terms of Jamie's advice for the Cherokee to "hide," it seems like some of them did, and remained in North Carolina.

So Jamie's advice would/will turn out well.  

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

I wondered if Ian and "Emily" had a positive/negative blood type reaction that caused the miscarriages when the baby had a different blood type from Emily.

That seems quite plausible. Rh in particular can cause that kind of reaction.

[taanja]

22 hours ago, ali59 said:

That Malva gets creepier every episode!

I figure if I saw people fucking in the stable I would stand and watch too. I mean -- Jaime and Claire chose to have sex in a public place -- so they get spying eyes.

Personally I feel sorry for that poor child. it looks as if she has been beaten every single day of her life -- and that has got to mess with a person's psyche. She comes across to me as a victim. I have NOT read the books so I do not know what is in store for this character. What I have seen so far makes me feel sorry for her. 

Otherwise I was kind of bored. I guess I don't care about Ian as much as others. But when he was telling Brianna a couple eps ago about having a baby with the Mohawk woman-- I figured he had a living child. That is why he still feels the Mohawk is his family. but the baby is dead and the woman has moved on. Time for Ian to move on too.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, taanja said:

I figure if I saw people fucking in the stable I would stand and watch too. I mean -- Jaime and Claire chose to have sex in a public place -- so they get spying eyes.

It's not a public place. It's their stable. Miss Creepiness decided to go peep like a peeping Tom and creepy person that she is.

[taanja]

9 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It's not a public place. It's their stable. Miss Creepiness decided to go peep like a peeping Tom and creepy person that she is.

looks pretty public to me. It's not in the house or up in the bedroom - therefore public. 

[Beeyago]

21 minutes ago, taanja said:

Otherwise I was kind of bored. I guess I don't care about Ian as much as others. But when he was telling Brianna a couple eps ago about having a baby with the Mohawk woman-- I figured he had a living child. That is why he still feels the Mohawk is his family. but the baby is dead and the woman has moved on. Time for Ian to move on too.

Same, this was my least favorite episode so far.  Though Ian's backstory was interesting, I didn't need the better part of an entire episode devoted to him.  I'm ready for the season to pick up.  Get on with the Christies already.  

24 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It's not a public place. It's their stable. Miss Creepiness decided to go peep like a peeping Tom and creepy person that she is.

It was the most interesting part of the entire episode, I thought.  

[jacourt]

I’ve noticed Claire’s face is rounder and fuller. Pregnancy agrees with her!

[Clawdette]

In 1990ish, my daughter's Girl Scout troop visited the Cherokee Village in the mountains of North Carolina.  It's in the town of Cherokee but separate from the commercialized Indian display on the town streets.  Called the Oconaluftee Indian Village, it had reconstructions of housing and community; crafters demonstrated basket and blanket weaving, and there was a very interesting museum featuring original Indian artifacts.  As far as I know, the village is still open.

For many years, the Cherokee Historical Association put on a summer outdoor play called "Unto These Hills" that told the history of the Cherokee and their removal from the land. I did consulting work at Western Carolina University for many summers and the off-campus activity was attending "Unto These Hills." The show went on rain-or-shine and I spent many evenings covered with Dollar Tree plastic ponchos while watching the performance. The drama production lapsed for some years but I believe it is active again.

The Cherokee have brought in casinos that are widely utilized, I believe.  There is a K12 school operated by the Tribal Council since 1990.  It was previously under the administration of the U. S. Bureau of Indian Affairs.

[goldilocks]

8 hours ago, taanja said:

I have NOT read the books so I do not know what is in store for this character. What I have seen so far makes me feel sorry for her. 

I feel bad for Malva too. Beaten and all her interests suppressed. I haven’t read the books either and don’t get all the remarks about her being creepy. I can only deduce that people have read the books and are commenting on something she might do or something that might be revealed about her. I know that’s not technically book talk, but it is indirectly. There’s nothing we’ve seen in the show that would lead to her being creepy. 

 

[jmnf19]

8 hours ago, Beeyago said:

Same, this was my least favorite episode so far.  Though Ian's backstory was interesting, I didn't need the better part of an entire episode devoted to him.  I'm ready for the season to pick up.  Get on with the Christies already.  

I like Young Ian and he was great, but I agree it was too much about one person. The first part was interesting, but then it dragged. 

I don’t find Malva creepy either, she seems nice. I thought I missed something with all the negative comments about her. I guess people are talking ahead of the episodes that have aired and shouldn’t allude to things based on what eventually happens. I would actually expect her to be more screwed up considering the beatings and any dreams quashed. Also agree that a stable is very public and what young curious person wouldn’t have a peek.

 

[taanja]

10 hours ago, goldilocks said:

I feel bad for Malva too. Beaten and all her interests suppressed. I haven’t read the books either and don’t get all the remarks about her being creepy. I can only deduce that people have read the books and are commenting on something she might do or something that might be revealed about her. I know that’s not technically book talk, but it is indirectly. There’s nothing we’ve seen in the show that would lead to her being creepy. 

 

Me either! She looks sad. and almost amazed that Claire takes an interest in her. And almost as if she is waiting for the other show to drop. like she dare not be too happy or she will get the shit beat out of her by her father.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Well I do find it and Malva creepy for going to the stables specifically to be a "peeping Tom" and watch Jamie and Claire having sex. And just the tone and words she uses to Claire when talking about her (Claire) maybe being a witch--but saying her father thinks it, but of course she doesn't! Not at all!

And I guess it's just a potato/pohtahto kind of thing.

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well I do find it and Malva creepy for going to the stables specifically to be a "peeping Tom" and watch Jamie and Claire having sex. And just the tone and words she uses to Claire when talking about her (Claire) maybe being a witch--but saying her father thinks it, but of course she doesn't! Not at all!

And I guess it's just a potato/pohtahto kind of thing.

Malva may have happened upon Jamie and Claire in the stables, but show went out of their way to show her stretching up on her tiptoes to get a better (and longer) look when most people would have immediately turned around and noped right on out of there.

That's creepy AF to me.

[Beeyago]

I can tell the show's trying to hint at something with the lingering shots on her and occasional sly smile.  The stables though was the first glimpse to me that she was maybe up to something.  But I thought the scene in last week's episode(603) where Jamie happened upon her in the woods made him look creepier than her, quite honestly. LOL.  Whatever it is I'm ready for them to get on with it.  They marketed the heck out of the Christies before the season, but so far they haven't amounted to much.  Especially the son Allan.  

Edited March 29, 2022 by Beeyago

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Beeyago said:

I can tell the show's trying to hint at something with the lingering shots on her and occasional sly smile.  

I agree. Witches and witchcraft has been mentioned repeatedly since the Christies showed up, so it's definitely leading up to something. I also noticed Lizzie giving Malva a strange look in the surgery, so maybe she'll be the first to catch on that something isn't right. 

I'm glad we finally got the backstory on Ian's time with the Mohawk. I'm not sure why he's still clinging to that identity when the tribe cast him out and his wife married his best friend, but whatever. Hopefully he moves on to someone not named Malva. 

I appreciated that Jamie warned the Cherokee chief about what's to come, but his advice didn't seem all that great. I agree with the poster above who said it would've been better to tell them to push West now rather than wait for shit to hit the fan. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Young Ian aside, I'm glad to see Jamie giving Fergus some purpose. They could have done that last season though too. 

Ah, the miscarriage plot device. I know the show is technically constrained, but it's tiring. Emily moved on fast tho. Give it a day. 

Malva - I don't think she's creepy. She lost her mother, horribly and is beaten on the regs. She probably learned to be quiet because the good Mr. Christie is looking to get the belt on her. Then here comes Claire who is nothing like anyone she's seen.

I do think she's seething with anger, and we might be looking at Chekhov's ether though. 

I thought Young Ian told Marsali that he 'had a son once'. 

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I appreciated that Jamie warned the Cherokee chief about what's to come, but his advice didn't seem all that great. I agree with the poster above who said it would've been better to tell them to push West now rather than wait for shit to hit the fan. 

 

On 3/27/2022 at 4:59 PM, WatcherUatl10 said:

And now the Natives know of Claire and Brianna's mystical visions, as well as those who are likely amassing tons of "evidence" of how much "witchery" they are involved in, purposely or circumstantially.

I don't know if I would have said it was my wife and daughter with the visions. I don't think the chief will spill the beans but still a risk. 
Jamie's kind of in a bind as to what to tell them. If he tells them to head west now; he's saying they should abandon their homeland, and that seems ooc to me. Saying 'whatever you do, fight for yourself' is probably the best he could do. 

 

[gingerella]

Well an episode I liked for the most part. I don't know how the books treat Mulva (Seinfeld tm) but she's creepy AF in the Show. Her almost smirk and constant references to Claire's healing being witchcraft are practically telegraphing another Claire is a witch situation. And equally creepy is her trying to read Claire's medical notes, as well as creeping on Jamie and Claire's stable sex (what's with these two getting it on in stables anyway?!). She's definitely up to no good, I'm surprised so many here see her as some innocent ingenue.

I loved all the background on Ian and his time with the Mohawks. The whole situation was close to what I thought it might be, except I thought they had a child still alive because I think Ian spoke about them as not being dead when someone asked him. I felt for him, and the whole story was interested to watch, but damn I do NOT need to see John Bell do any sex scenes thankyouverymuch. Just, no! He's Young Ian and I felt like a peeping Tom watching that! Blerg! That John Bell can carry most of an entire episode says a lot though, and I'd like more please. On the other hand, as much as I like Fergus as a character, older Fergus has nothing on young Fergus, actorwise, and I feel like there's not a lot of room for him in the story right now. I don't know if he's written like that in the books but Marsali has far surpassed him in terms of holding my interest.

With all the hullbaloo about the Christie's and the Fisherfolk joining the season, I'm very unimpressed with that whole aspect of story. It's boring and the characters and not compelling in any way. In addition, the coming attractions showed something about Roger spending too much time alone with that widow and I thought the same thing last episode so I'm glad they're addressing it next epi.

Other than that, I enjoyed watching them test the ether on Lizzie and Josiah, and the general training of an assistant during that time. But I missed Marsali not being in this episode at all.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

30 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Ah, the miscarriage plot device. I know the show is technically constrained, but it's tiring. Emily moved on fast tho. Give it a day.

I thought Young Ian told Marsali that he 'had a son once'. 

She had two miscarriages, so that's several months for each pregnancy and more in between, and Ian said her decision came a few months after the second.

No, he said "I had a child".

32 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I loved all the background on Ian and his time with the Mohawks.

Her almost smirk and constant references to Claire's healing being witchcraft are practically telegraphing another Claire is a witch situation.

because I think Ian spoke about them as not being dead when someone asked him

I too! Surprised we got it all at once, but it was a long time coming and done well; Ian is one of the highlights of the show.

As I said before, on the contrary I get the feeling Malva would be even more interested in learning from Claire if it were witchcraft.

No, he said that about his wife. "No, but she is lost to me."

[taanja]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:39 PM, gingerella said:

. She's definitely up to no good, I'm surprised so many here see her as some innocent ingenue.

 

Ingenue is most definitely not the word I would use. More like victim. We have been shown that she gets beat on the regular by her father . After his hand was healed they showed that scene of Tom beating Malva and she had the look of defiance-- like she wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of showing any kind of pain. And basically like that dynamic had been playing out over and over again through the years. Even Tom looked like he was trying to "break" her -- his expression was almost evil.

Oh, and from reading some of the comments here-- what the hell is the brother doing to her? I can only imagine! They have mentioned that she is what? sixteen? maybe eighteen years old? Barely more than a child. How long has this abuse been going on? 

I can only speculate that when she finally blows up - she does something to saint Claire or saint Jamie - hence all the hatred.

A small question - is burning/killing/drowning witches still as thing? in 1773-1774 In America? Is it something that Claire and Brianna and all the woman have to actually fear? 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

40 minutes ago, taanja said:

A small question - is burning/killing/drowning witches still as thing? in 1773-1774 In America? Is it something that Claire and Brianna and all the woman have to actually fear? 

Not on paper, no. The last Witchcraft Act in 1735 established that the British government's official stance was that supernatural powers did not exist, and anyone claiming to have them would be prosecuted for fraud instead. Of course, Claire and Geillis's trial in 1740s Scotland was technically illegal for that reason and happened by rule of mob.

The last person mentioned on Wikipedia as being found of guilty of witchcraft in America before the Revolution was in 1706.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Noneofyourbusiness

[DoctorAtomic]

That's why I asked what sect Mr. Christie was. Because if it was some wackadoo snake shake whatever, then they're not going to really care about secular law. You've got that idiot 'safety committee' plodding around with tacit approval from McDonald in the North Carolina wilderness. 

Although, Mr. Christie said, 'I don't think you're a witch' to Claire, and being awake during the surgery, he saw what she actually did. Jamie was also present. I'd find it hard he'd be accusing her of witchcraft when it's his word against the landowner. 

He's got no problem condemning his late wife though, so I could see this happening with Malva. I want to see her snap though. 

[Shermie]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:31 AM, Hanahope said:

I wondered if Ian and "Emily" had a positive/negative blood type reaction that caused the miscarriages when the baby had a different blood type from Emily. 

You mean RH factor? That only happens when the woman has negative blood and the man has positive. Typically a couple has healthy baby the first time but the woman’s body builds up antibodies to the invader’s blood (the baby with positive blood), so when she has a second pregnancy that’s when problems happen. Now, however, the woman is given RH immune-globulin shots during pregnancy. Since they didn’t have a first successful pregnancy to kick off the RH issues, I doubt that was the cause but who knows what creative licence the writer takes. 

I see both sides in the “Malva is creepy” discussion. I don’t think she’s one of those bad seed evil child types, but she does have a lot of furtive smirks and glances. As for watching Jamie and Claire have sex, I guess she’s curious about things she knows a little about. That’s what happens when you repress someone; they go overboard to counteract it. 

Plus, Jamie and Claire were stupid to have sex in the barn. I mean, most scenes at their farm have all kinds of people milling about all the damn time. J & C can’t hold it in for the 5 minutes to get to the house?

[Scarlett45]

20 hours ago, Shermie said:

You mean RH factor? That only happens when the woman has negative blood and the man has positive. Typically a couple has healthy baby the first time but the woman’s body builds up antibodies to the invader’s blood (the baby with positive blood), so when she has a second pregnancy that’s when problems happen. Now, however, the woman is given RH immune-globulin shots during pregnancy. Since they didn’t have a first successful pregnancy to kick off the RH issues, I doubt that was the cause but who knows what creative licence the writer takes. 

I see both sides in the “Malva is creepy” discussion. I don’t think she’s one of those bad seed evil child types, but she does have a lot of furtive smirks and glances. As for watching Jamie and Claire have sex, I guess she’s curious about things she knows a little about. That’s what happens when you repress someone; they go overboard to counteract it. 

Plus, Jamie and Claire were stupid to have sex in the barn. I mean, most scenes at their farm have all kinds of people milling about all the damn time. J & C can’t hold it in for the 5 minutes to get to the house?

But the 1st pregnancy was successful. The pregnancy went to term and it looks like she had a placenta previa (spelling). The baby died but it was a full term pregnancy by the sounds of it. (I may have to watch the episode again)

Poor Ian though- I don’t blame him for being heartbroken. 
 

I can’t read Malva’s motivations but can we really blame her if she’s “odd”, with Tom Christie as a father beating her for no reason and telling her how sinful she is, how could she possibly be well adjusted???

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

But the 1st pregnancy was successful. The pregnancy went to term and it looks like she had a placenta previa (spelling). The baby died but it was a full term pregnancy by the sounds of it. (I may have to watch the episode again)

Longer than the 2nd, at least. Got a gender and a name, which the second didn't.

[tennisgurl]

I am really happy we got an Ian centered episode, I have always wanted to know what happened during his time with the Mohawk and his wife. I suspected it would be something like this, but it was even sadder to see it, between his two lost children and his wife and the tribe he came to love telling him to leave. Ian must have felt so torn, its really good that he found some sense of peace between being a Mohawk and being a Scot. Cool uncle Jamie was there to give him some solid advice, I am really impressed by how Sam has really made Jamie look older. He looks only a bit older than he did when the show started while he was a young man, but he very much feels like an older and wiser patriarch. 

Malva is a bit creepy, but I feel bad for her. She's abused by her awful father who seems set out to hate her and seems like she doesn't have many people in her life, she's pulled to Claire as someone who actually treats her kindly, and while she might end up bringing trouble later I think it could also be that's she's more troubled and unsure of how to deal with people than being sinister. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by tennisgurl

[mythoughtis]

And just like that, I see Malva as being creepy.  I waffle back and forth on her.   
Young Ian’s story was as I expected. And I also found his sex scene to be uncomfortable.  He’s just not old enough looking for me to feel okay  with it. 

[Camera One]

I was totally fine with taking a bit of a break to find out what happened to Young Ian.  I am not looking forward to going back to the violence of war and conflict with the psycho public safety committee.  They waited a long time to tell this story.  It was a tad predictable, but it was still engaging enough.  It showed what a solid guy he was, to save the man who ended up with his ex-wife.  I wonder if she was pressured to by her parents.  Was she the Chief's daughter?  Young Ian's ex-friend had said the woman chose the man, so he might not have actively pursued her.  

Jaime became the Indian Agent mainly because it would have been way worse if the other guy had the role, so why is he quitting now?  It makes no sense.  

I want to like Malva, since I felt badly for her and it was nice to see her learning from Claire.  But I think the show is intentionally emphasizing her creepiness.  Earlier in the episode, when she was applying the ether, she had this expression that made me think maybe she was eager to learn new ways to someday kill off her father.   That would be totally fine with me, but you just know she will only cause problems for Claire.  Knowing her father's beliefs, Claire is playing with fire as usual.