S02.E08: The Viscount Who Loved Me

[wanderingstar]

Whew! Kate and Anthony were so damn hot all season long. Agree with others who have said that they didn’t need a ton of sex scenes; the slow burn of their relationship is what made it so delicious to watch. That plus the angst and pathos made this romance *chef’s kiss* And yes, much more engaging than Daphne and Simon.

Speaking of Daphne, the sparing use of her this season was perfect. I particularly liked that her spidey sense went up about Kate/Anthony. And of course, her telling Anthony about himself was great to see.

Quote

Gah, you could see Anthony at the end of the dance fighting his desire to do more (jaw clenched jaw clench), but realizing a room full of people are watching. And the dance ends, and he can’t take his eyes off Kate or let go of her hand

I laughed a lot this season at Anthony and Kate thinking they were hiding their feelings. Like, every time he looked at her, his desire was obvious. In the dance scene mentioned here, the rest of the party seemed to leave the dance floor because they were like “we don’t want to intrude on these two/they need to get a room”

Quote

I knew it would be Benedict approaching Eloise when she was sitting alone on the swings. I am just so happy they are close.

I love their relationship. And I really enjoyed Benedict this season. He’s funny, but also very insightful and kind when it comes to his siblings.

I can’t believe this show made me cry! Mary and Kate’s scene was so lovely. I was tearing up throughout. Also teared up when Violet came to tell Anthony that Kate was awake. He looked like he was about to break but was still trying to hold himself together because…that’s what he does; it’s what he’s supposed to do.

Re Penelope/LW – I like Penelope, but I kind of wish we hadn’t already been told she’s Lady Whistledown (I haven’t read the books) It complicates the story and not in a fun way. I just don’t like see Penelope being sad and mopey all the time. Can she be more than that? Also, STFU, Colin. Penelope is NOT beneath you. Ass.

The Queen saying, “Are they not?” to the Featheringtons about Kate and Anthony was delightful.

[Conotocarious]

I really liked the Queen and Lady Danbury and Mama Bridgerton being so heavily featured. Good roles for older women, yay!

 

eta: OMG, I forgot Polly Walker who made me laugh out loud more than once!

Edited March 28, 2022 by Conotocarious

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I love their relationship. And I really enjoyed Benedict this season. He’s funny, but also very insightful and kind when it comes to his siblings.

I can’t believe this show made me cry! Mary and Kate’s scene was so lovely. I was tearing up throughout. Also teared up when Violet came to tell Anthony that Kate was awake. He looked like he was about to break but was still trying to hold himself together because…that’s what he does; it’s what he’s supposed to do.

A great small scene of Benedict's was him quietly asking Anthony if he had anything to say to the family... Or just him? It was playful, but showed honest concern for his big brother in under 30 seconds and that to me was the essence of Benedict this season.

Oh, this show made me tear up multiple times when it came to Anthony's fears and doubts, the way Violet and Daphne couldn't reach him, or Kate playing against herself. Just that shot of her trying to hold back tears when Mary looked at her. *insert chin wobble*

[eleanorofaquitaine]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

What right has Penelope to believe that she knows what is Colin's "best interest"? 

I don't believe that Pen had altruistic motives at all but she only thought to save herself. Lady W.  gives her power over people and she enjoys it.

Let's think about the similar situations in the present: you are teenagers and you know that your sister is using drugs and isn't listening to you, are you telling it to her parents or rector? Or your best friend is seeing a "bad boy" in secret and she isn't listening to you, are you telling it to everybody in the school because it's "to her own good" to make her stop the relationship?   

I am taking this to the Lady Whistledown thread.

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

And I really enjoyed Benedict this season. He’s funny, but also very insightful and kind when it comes to his siblings.

The Benedict actor is great in his reactions to other characters. Very expressive and fun.

[Atlanta]

3 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Re Penelope/LW – I like Penelope, but I kind of wish we hadn’t already been told she’s Lady Whistledown (I haven’t read the books) It complicates the story and not in a fun way. I just don’t like see Penelope being sad and mopey all the time. Can she be more than that? Also, STFU, Colin. Penelope is NOT beneath you. Ass.

Spoiler

IIRC, it's Colin and Pen's book where it's revealed who LW is and it's because he starts following her. I don't think she ever traveled to a print shop or went to a bad part of town, but would arrange a pick up spot in a church under a certain pew at certain times of day. So definitely not as scandalous as the show.

 

[GaT]

Whoo, finished this season, is season 3 ready for me yet? I have to admit though, I liked season 1 better. The good thing was that Jonathon Bailey was sexy enough. I still don't think Anthony is quite as hot as Simon, but Anthony held his own. The bad was how long the "when are they getting together?" part took. It felt dragged out for no reason. I also don't like what is happening with Lady Whistledown (do we ever find out why Pen picked that name?) plot. The LW part was frothy fun in season 1, now she's betrayal & ruination. I have no idea what happens in the books, but I don't want 6 more seasons like this one.

On 3/26/2022 at 3:39 PM, LadyChaos said:

Penelope also warned Eloise not to go back to the print shop after the Queen found out she was there and was threatening to ruin her family.....Pen told told her she absolutely should not go back to the print shop to protect her family and not make it worse.....and thats exactly what Eloise did... Go straight to the print shop, where Theo told her he nearly lost his job because of her and to stay away....You can't blame Penelope for Eloise doing whatever she wants regardless of how many times she was told not to do it. 

Exactly. Eloise thinks she knows better than everyone else & just does what she pleases. Now there were serious consequences (that was awful when nobody showed up at the ball) to her family, & she doesn't seem to realize her part in it. I also don't understand how someone who, like every other female of the time, was raised from birth on how to behave could possibly be so socially awkward. 

On 3/26/2022 at 9:01 PM, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Colin told the guys he wasn't into Penelope so it wouldn't be gossiped about? 

I'm sure it will turn out that the next sentence he said after Pen ran away was something like "she hasn't been introduced yet" or something else equally harmless. Which brings me to a question, aren't Eloise & Penelope the same age? Why is Eloise "out" but Penelope isn't?

On 3/27/2022 at 9:20 AM, Atlanta said:

Why was Kate not wearing a wedding ring in the final scenes?

I was very confused by the last scene, how long after was it from the ball? I assumed they were married just by the way they acted since unmarried people wouldn't act that way in public, but the show could have cut back on the whole "will they?" plot & showed a little bit of a wedding. Where are Edwina & Lady Mary living? Is Anthony taking care of them? It just seems like they dragged out the story & then rushed the end without answering questions.

[nara]

14 minutes ago, GaT said:

 

I'm sure it will turn out that the next sentence he said after Pen ran away was something like "she hasn't been introduced yet" or something else equally harmless. Which brings me to a question, aren't Eloise & Penelope the same age? Why is Eloise "out" but Penelope isn't?

Pen and her sisters were all presented at court the same time as Daphne. It’s a little strange that all 3 sisters were introduced at the same time…

[bijoux]

20 minutes ago, GaT said:

 I was very confused by the last scene, how long after was it from the ball? I assumed they were married just by the way they acted since unmarried people wouldn't act that way in public, but the show could have cut back on the whole "will they?" plot & showed a little bit of a wedding. Where are Edwina & Lady Mary living? Is Anthony taking care of them? It just seems like they dragged out the story & then rushed the end without answering questions.

They are married. Eloise mentioned that they came back from a 6-month honeymoon. Though the weather confuses me. The failed ball was at the end of May and I can't imagine they're get married any later than June, July at the latest. That hardly seemed like an English winter in the epilogue. Maybe they postposed the honeymoon some because of Anthony's obligations. If anyone would understand, Kate would.

3 minutes ago, nara said:

Pen and her sisters were all presented at court the same time as Daphne. It’s a little strange that all 3 sisters were introduced at the same time…

Probably monetary reasons.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

They are married. Eloise mentioned that they came back from a 6-month honeymoon. Though the weather confuses me. The failed ball was at the end of May and I can't imagine they're get married any later than June, July at the latest. That hardly seemed like an English winter in the epilogue. Maybe they postposed the honeymoon some because of Anthony's obligations. If anyone would understand, Kate would.

Probably monetary reasons.

The show does such a great job of heightening the fantasy, I never noticed the weather.  In romance novels, the weather is always perfect unless the plot calls for a thunderstorm or a snowstorm.

I believe the F's decided to launch all three daughters together in hopes of landing at least one of them a husband.  They would have kept Phillipa and Prudence at home until Pen was old enough to make her debut and save up for the wardrobes.  If they had launched them separately, they would have been coughing up money every year for new dresses for Phillipa and Prudence.  

[RachelKM]

On 3/26/2022 at 3:39 PM, LadyChaos said:

You can't blame Penelope for Eloise doing whatever she wants regardless of how many times she was told not to do it. 

This.  I enjoy Eloise.  She fun and funny.  But she's also an entitled jerk a lot of the time. Pen initially told Eloise not to go to the printer out of fear for herself and exposure as Lady W. But her warnings about subsequent trips were about Eloise.  E's focus had clearly shifted to Theo and political pamphlets.  

And Eloise was about to be ruined along with her whole family because of her own actions. As Pen warned her, E got caught. Should Pen have turned herself in? Maybe.  But it's interesting to me that people think Pen was obligated to expose herself, give up her employment and source of income in a family that is struggling financially, and face the potential wrath of the Queen because Eloise acted recklessly and got caught. 

On 3/26/2022 at 10:27 AM, Sakura12 said:

While Pen is right Eloise is all talk and no action. She isn't actively ruining people's reputations for her gain. She ruined Marina and her best friend by outing them like she did. She had private information meant for her ears only and she shared it with the whole ton. How can she ever be trusted again. 

Pen isn't ruining lives. Most of her job is just gossip and causes little or no harm.  She's reporting on what is being talked about already. As for Marina's secret, that has been debated to death and no one is changing their minds at this late date.  I suppose she ruined the douchebag from Season 1, too.  No one defends him.

She didn't ruin Eloise. She exposed her to temporary scorn and ridicule. But by including the politics as the angle, she actually blunted some of the harm. E is already considers and actively courts the reputation of a bluestocking. Making her prone to political activities is bridge further, but not ruinous in the way that being known to visit the rough side of town unchaperoned for unmentioned reasons. 

Every time E went to that printers, not even bothering with a disguise, she risked being seen (which she eventually was) and ending up in one of the gossip rags which would have been much more damaging. 

On 3/26/2022 at 1:21 AM, Roseanna said:

I think Eloise was angry because Penelope had used her, lied to her, pretended to be other she is, in short betrayed her and her family as well as other people. In the first season Penelope almost ruined Daphne's chances to marry well and then she revealed Marina's pregnancy to the whole world.  

I think it was the highlighted.  E felt betrayed as much by the secrets as by the story. I also think some of it was E's ego.  I may be borrowing a bit from my book knowledge, but one of E's faults that she often views herself as the cleverest person in the  room, is (like most of her family) absurdly competitive, and doesn't consider herself subject to consequences.  E is and was also a bit condescending to Pen treating her like a sidekick.  Pen just showed herself to be not only an independent agent but one that outsmarted E for almost two years.

Lady W didn't have anything to do with diminishing Daphne's chances to marry.  She merely commented on what was happening. Anthony had essentially smothered all Daphne's prospects.  Lady W merely reported it. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by RachelKM

[dubbel zout]

34 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

source of income in a family that is struggling financially

We have yet to see Penelope sharing the money with her family or using it for anything other than her newsletter costs.

[dubbel zout]

5 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

So?  She is allowed to secure her own finances and/or future which, based on all indications of her popularity at balls and lack of a dowry, is likely to depend entirely on her own wits. 

I was pointing out that so far, she's not using it to help her family, which is having money problems. Of course she's entitled to do whatever she wants with the money. I'm not judging Pen for keeping the money for herself.

[RachelKM]

Just now, dubbel zout said:

I was pointing out that so far, she's not using it to help her family, which is having money problems. Of course she's entitled to do whatever she wants with the money. There's been some misreading, I think.

Sorry.  I may have done so.  Yes, Pen hasn't yet put her funds to use.  To do so, she would/will have to devise a method of transferring money to her mother.  Pen herself cannot simply start paying milliner and butcher shop bills. 

The simplest way to do that would be a lumpsum somehow legally awarded to her mother. (Fake and inheritance or sale of a heretofore worthless but suddenly valuable stock, etc.) That would mean saving up until transferring just once would be helpful.  (Only so many unknown dead relative's testimonial gifts you can invent.) In the interim, the best she can do is try to slip some of it into the household as she can.

Alternatively, she can save up and find a way to set herself up somewhere. 

[shapeshifter]

33 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

We have yet to see Penelope sharing the money with her family or using it for anything other than her newsletter costs.

Until Eloise asked Pen about "all this money," I thought there was just enough to keep Pen's publishing going. The printing expenses of paper, ink, and typesetting aren't free. Then there's distribution costs. And rides to the printing district aren't without compensation, especially if Pen needs to tip extra for silence. And isn't Pen now giving Madame Delacroix a cut in exchange for sewing the handwritten text into garments and sending them to the printer? (Or is Mme. D. just getting good reviews?) 
I mean: It's not like the population of The Ton are paying for their scandal sheets. ↢ crossed out because incorrect. See post below by @RachelKM.*

So, the real question to me is: Why did the writers give Eloise the line asking about "all this money," which seems to have been addressed to the audience, whether accidentally or on purpose by the writers? 
Perhaps to demonstrate further how clueless Eloise is about how the world works?
If so, shouldn't there have been at least a muttered reply from Pen like: "I have publishing expenses"?

*Or, could this be a hint that we shall see Pen's career blossom as she evolves into a strong, truly feminist journalist-publisher? 
 

Edited March 28, 2022 by shapeshifter

[RachelKM]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

I mean: It's not like the population of The Ton are paying for their scandal sheets.

They are.  It was made clear in the first season that they paid for this sheet because it was so popular.  Pen is earning an income from the Lady W publication.  The one time we heard her speak of money, she was to receive ₤11 plus some change and she agreed to take ₤10 in exchange for a concession from the printer.  Since Pen demanded that the printer pay the delivery boy's more, it appears that he is paying the overhead and she collects her percentage. I assume she pays Delacroix from her take.  But assuming she makes  ₤10-12 per issue, two issues a week for the just over 6 months of the season, that's actually not a terrible take. And it would be FAR more money than an unmarried woman from a financially strained household would be likely to have in her floor boards. 

[shapeshifter]

There are a lot of parallel story lines in this season. I hope they are on purpose and not an indication of a lack of creativity, because I think patterns are an important part of all arts. Patterns are what makes much of nature universally beautiful. 

Another characterization pattern I have noticed (whether accidental or on purpose) is Pen's foray into publishing being similar to the not so wealthy art students who were admitted to the prestigious academy on the basis of their native talents and diligent practice. Both Pen and those students exist in contrast to Benedict, who, no matter how kind or sincere or even diligent he now is, was able to make that choice on a whim after drinking some psychedelic tea.

 

2 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

They are.  It was made clear in the first season that they paid for this sheet because it was so popular.  Pen is earning an income from the Lady W publication.  The one time we heard her speak of money, she was to receive ₤11 plus some change and she agreed to take ₤10 in exchange for a concession from the printer.  Since Pen demanded that the printer pay the delivery boy's more, it appears that he is paying the overhead and she collects her percentage. I assume she pays Delacroix from her take.  But assuming she makes  ₤10-12 per issue, two issues a week for the just over 6 months of the season, that's actually not a terrible take. And it would be FAR more money than an unmarried woman from a financially strained household would be likely to have in her floor boards. 

Ooohh! I misunderstood when I read an earlier post.
--Finance is my weak point; I just know "waste not, want not." Heh.--
I will do a bit of editing to my post above. 
Thanks, @RachelKM!

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

I think it was the highlighted.  E felt betrayed as much by the secrets as by the story. I also think some of it was E's ego.  I may be borrowing a bit from my book knowledge, but one of E's faults that she often views herself as the cleverest person in the  room, is (like most of her family) absurdly competitive, and doesn't consider herself subject to consequences.  E is and was also a bit condescending to Pen treating her like a sidekick.  Pen just showed herself to be not only an independent agent but one that outsmarted E for almost two years.

I absolutely think that some of Eloise anger stems from the idea that like everyone else in the ton, she underestimated Penelope. I think that Eloise was used to being the bright and vibrant one in the friendship. Sure, she was already known as a bluestocking but she also knew that she has choices that Penelope has because she's still an attractive prospect for marriage. 

Suddenly, Pen flipped the script on not being quite the "insipid wallflower" that everyone thought she was - and on some level, I think that bothers Eloise. Eloise is talking but Pen is doing.

Re Pen keeping the money - she's smart, she knows her prospects for wealth aren't great. I can't blame her for wanting to try to achieve some level of financial independence.

[Door County Cherry]

19 hours ago, peridot said:

It was kind of terrible that Eloise said that Penelope may have gossiped before, but she wasn't listening until now. 

I took that to mean she wasn't truly listening--listening to the process.  Hearing the phrasing.  

I think they talked and engaged in gossip.  But when Eloise discovered Genevieve, I think she felt she was getting closer to the writer.  And since she was so awash in the investigation, suddenly things started being put into place like the fact that Penelope was the only one knew some of the secrets that were exposed. 

And that's what she meant by hearing Penelope.  She heard her in a different way.  

I think the way the discovery was made was kind of stupid.  I would have loved to see Eloise feed Penelope erroneous gossip to see if it ended up in the newsletter.  But I guess they wanted an epiphany route. 

[bunnyface]

On 3/27/2022 at 11:20 AM, Atlanta said:

Why was Kate not wearing a wedding ring in the final scenes?

Hopefully Kate was smart enough to refuse a ring he'd already given her sister.  I mean, I know I'm coming at this from a whole different century, but DO NOT give me a ring you've already given someone else, my sister even, and want to pass off to me secondarily.  No thank you.

 

After that, we can assume they were so busy boinking for 6 months, they didn't have time to turn up another ring. Plus, his mother really didn't want to give it up anyway.  Although,  she wasn't really allowed to call the property her own, let's hope Kate let her keep it.  

 

 

[scarynikki12]

The only scene of Kate and Anthony married takes place at Aubrey Hall with his family on Pall Mall day so she may not wear her ring in such a casual setting. 

[shapeshifter]

23 hours ago, peridot said:

It was kind of terrible that Eloise said that Penelope may have gossiped before, but she wasn't listening until now. 

3 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I took that to mean she wasn't truly listening--listening to the process.  Hearing the phrasing.  

I think they talked and engaged in gossip.  But when Eloise discovered Genevieve, I think she felt she was getting closer to the writer.  And since she was so awash in the investigation, suddenly things started being put into place like the fact that Penelope was the only one knew some of the secrets that were exposed. 

And that's what she meant by hearing Penelope.  She heard her in a different way.  

I think the way the discovery was made was kind of stupid.  I would have loved to see Eloise feed Penelope erroneous gossip to see if it ended up in the newsletter.  But I guess they wanted an epiphany route. 

In addition, I think Eloise was trying to not listen to the gossip because Eloise considered gossip a waste of time, unenlightened, etc. etc. 

 

 

 

 

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, bunnyface said:

Hopefully Kate was smart enough to refuse a ring he'd already given her sister.  I mean, I know I'm coming at this from a whole different century, but DO NOT give me a ring you've already given someone else, my sister even, and want to pass off to me secondarily.  No thank you.

Edwina used only an engagement ring. She never married with Anthony.

[Sakura12]

Isn't Kate a commoner? Why was that never brought up. They all know she's not a birth daughter of Lady Mary. 

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Isn't Kate a commoner? Why was that never brought up. They all know she's not a birth daughter of Lady Mary. 

Yes Kate and Edwina are not technical members of the gentry or peerage, they are both commoners.  Women take the rank of their husbands upon marriage, so calling Mary Lady Mary is a courtesy.  Whatever rank a woman has at birth changes upon marriage.  Men can marry outside the peerage or the gentry and elevate their wives' ranks.  That being said, men and women who are rich and influential were invited to some events of the Ton.  Kate and Edwina were not presented at court due to their rank, but could be invited to balls held by members of the Ton.  Getting backed by someone like Lady Danbury means doors were open to them that would not be the case for others.  Edwina was also the only grandchild to an estate not entailed.  People would know how rich the Sheffields were and assume she would inherit even with the bad blood between them and Mary.  She was always going to catch the eyes of younger sons, men who needed a rich wife.

[bijoux]

I don't think Mary would have lost her title after marriage. She's still Lady Mary as the daughter od an... earl, was it? She does not pass it on to her offspring, so Edwina would never be Lady Edwina. She can be Lady Husband's Surname if she marries into nobility, just as Kate is now Lady Bridgerton. 

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Women take the rank of their husbands upon marriage, so calling Mary Lady Mary is a courtesy. 

If a Lady marries an untitled man, she keeps the Lady. 

And now "Lady" looks really weird to me!

[Atlanta]

Was just surprised Kate didn't have some sort of wedding ring. When we flash forward of them boinking (I wasn't sure at first if it was a flash forward), I was looking for a ring. 

[iwantcookies]

I did not like this season. What a snoozefest. 
 

 

[Jess14]

On 3/28/2022 at 2:46 AM, Roseanna said:

I don't believe that Pen had altruistic motives at all but she only thought to save herself. Lady W.  gives her power over people and she enjoys it.

Agreed. I wonder how much of the feelings toward Pen are based on the book, where it seems like she is likeable. I never read the books, so my only impression of her is from the show, and I cannot stand her! She is vicious, and I also have no urge whatsoever to see a romance between her and Colin. I didn’t even feel sorry for her when Colin was talking bad about her in the end….sucks to have someone who you think is a friend say bad things about you behind your back, right? 

I liked Anthony and Kate, but I was expecting more at the end. It almost felt like the writers ran out of time, which was unfortunate. Their chemistry was amazing.

I thought there was way too much focus on the Featheringtons, and I also thought that the wedding episode dragged on.

[Sakura12]

Does Pen like Colin because he's the only guy that talks to her? He so uninteresting for someone that likes to keep things interesting. I guess they will go with the trope of him not seeing her for years and finally noticing her for their story. I'll be expecting the instrumental version of Kiss Me. 

[RachelKM]

10 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Does Pen like Colin because he's the only guy that talks to her? He so uninteresting for someone that likes to keep things interesting. I guess they will go with the trope of him not seeing her for years and finally noticing her for their story. I'll be expecting the instrumental version of Kiss Me. 

There have been scenes that show that they enjoy banter.  But, I agree that the show version of Colin is pretty uninteresting.  But she is an 18 year old girl who is accustomed being ignored by everyone, up to and including her family.  So yeah, just mooning over him being handsome and notices her at all.

In the books

Spoiler

it's not really all that different in the early books.  They both have a bit of a realization when the finally get together.  She learns more about him beyond his being a charmer with a quick quip (a trait the show seems to have given to Benedict) and showing some depth.  And Pen has improved in looks as well as confidence being somewhat out from under her mother's thumb now that her mother has given her up as spinster.

 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

The ring Anthony gave both Edwina and Kate was the ring his father gave his mother. Kate is aware of the depth of feeling that Anthony holds for his dad - that probably overrode any icky feelings she might have had over the fact that he initially gave it to Edwina. 

Re not being part of the peerage - one of the things I don't really love about Regency romance novels is that they act like non-aristocracy was a part of society and I am not sure that is the case. Granted, most of my knowledge comes from Austen novels but we see from her books that especially wealthy young men are often an important part of society even if they didn't have a title. 

[magdalene]

11 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

The ring Anthony gave both Edwina and Kate was the ring his father gave his mother. Kate is aware of the depth of feeling that Anthony holds for his dad - that probably overrode any icky feelings she might have had over the fact that he initially gave it to Edwina. 

Re not being part of the peerage - one of the things I don't really love about Regency romance novels is that they act like non-aristocracy was a part of society and I am not sure that is the case. Granted, most of my knowledge comes from Austen novels but we see from her books that especially wealthy young men are often an important part of society even if they didn't have a title. 

I haven't read the books this show is based on but I did read my grand mothers Georgette Heyer novels when I was a teen and I recognize a lot of themes and tropes from Heyer that modern historical romance novelists very obviously still use.  She must have been a big influence on the romance genre, in particular Regency romance.

As to the ring, once again because of Heyer I know that Kate had no choice but to wear it because it probably was passed through the generations to whoever the current Lady Bridgerton was and one day she would give it to her eldest sons new wife.

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, magdalene said:

As to the ring, once again because of Heyer I know that Kate had no choice but to wear it because it probably was passed through the generations to whoever the current Lady Bridgerton was and one day she would give it to her eldest sons new wife.

So in real life Regency times, if the wife dies, the new wife gets the dead wife's ring? 
Maybe they didn't wear the rings too often? 

[Guest]

It’s probably a sign of my thoughts of this season when the episode opens with the female lead unconscious and I think “please stay that way. Please don’t wake up.”

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I am going to guess that if Kate insisted on having a new ring, Anthony would have gotten her one, given how besotted he is with her.

But I also think she understood the significance of Anthony given her the ring that Edmund gave Violet and was probably was fine with it.

[magdalene]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So in real life Regency times, if the wife dies, the new wife gets the dead wife's ring? 
Maybe they didn't wear the rings too often? 

If it's a family heirloom like this ring seems to be. And no, the wife doesn't have to die. Anthony's mother is alive and well. It's when the eldest son marries and somebody - in this case Kate - becomes the new Lady Bridgerton. I think Violet is now the Dowager Lady Bridgerton. Somebody correct me if I am wrong about the Dowager part.  Usually I think the mother would move into the "Dowager house". Though I doubt this will happen on the show. I guess when certain family jewels go from the widow of the deceased peer to his son's wife the ring or whatever isn't really the new wife personal possession, it remains family property. 

Smiles. I learned some of this by watching Downton Abbey.

I am sure Anthony will give Kate beautiful jewelry over the years that will be her her personal possession.

Edited March 30, 2022 by magdalene

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

 

Re not being part of the peerage - one of the things I don't really love about Regency romance novels is that they act like non-aristocracy was a part of society and I am not sure that is the case. Granted, most of my knowledge comes from Austen novels but we see from her books that especially wealthy young men are often an important part of society even if they didn't have a title. 

The non-aristocrats would be excluded from certain court events and not members of Almacks.  But, money is money, and gentlemen were limited in professions.  The men who inherited the estates could not work, the younger sons got to choose between the church, the army, law, and medicine.  The easiest way to make money was to marry an heiress, so rich commoners with daughters were welcome. 

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, Jess14 said:

She is vicious, and I also have no urge whatsoever to see a romance between her and Colin. I didn’t even feel sorry for her when Colin was talking bad about her in the end….sucks to have someone who you think is a friend say bad things about you behind your back, right? 

I quite agree: why would we be sorry for Pen when she hears Colin talking bad about her to his buddies when she has done it about others as LadyW? 

The incident doesn't tell well about Colin's character, either. Although it's a well-know theme in romances, the heroes usually speak about a lady they doesn't know. Colin is supposed to be Pen's friend and he is simply a coward not to say it.  The writers just chose things what seems good to them in the moment but seems to forget how they influence on the whole.

[bijoux]

You know what I want? Colin and Anthony learning about this together. Colin is aghast, Anthony presses his fingers' to his eyeballs in frustration and calls for... Gregory. Well, there's really no need to rip into me in front of our baby brother, Lord Bridgerton. I assure you I'm mortified already. You don't have to be a dick about it. Anthony just ignores him. Gregory, when you get the idea to diminish a lady, be it a specific one or just in general, please try to refrain. Or at the very least, don't do it in the open. Gregory, doing his all to grow up into the perfect gentleman for Anthony is incenced. He would never! You're a Bridgerton, odds are against you here. - Pfft, nope. 

After Gregory leaves, Colin wants some actual help, not whatever that was. What should he do? Then it clicks. What did Anthony do? Walked through personal hell. - Fat load of good you are, your lordship. It worked out for him in the end?

[SonofaBiscuit]

Some more random thoughts I had:

Anthony and Benedict wear their clothes so well. Like damn, they look good.

The Benedict actor and Eloise actress must just have nice, natural, real-life chemistry that the show likes to take advantage of. They have some really cute moments together (there is a small scene in episode five where he teases her about her newfound interest in flower arranging, and they are also paired together in episode seven for parts of the family dance---you can see Benedict shake his head as Eloise curtsies him, and there are a few parts where they are spinning around together). Swear to god, if they were not siblings, I would ship it.

The Benedict actor and Anthony actor also seem to have real-life chemistry, and their scenes are always wonderful and interesting. Their interactions at Benedict's art "party" in epsiode seven (Anthony calling the party "something" and asking Benedict if he was "back to taking the tea") had me snort-laughing.

All the almost-kisses between Anthony and Kate, and they share their first actual kiss on that cursed wedding alter where Anthony was about to marry her sister?! Evil.

Ha, fireworks were set off as Anthony's engagement to Edwina ended (explosions began as she was running from the alter) and then we see the fireworks again right before Kate accepts his proposal in the garden.

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by SonofaBiscuit
Added more thoughts

[RedbirdNelly]

On 3/28/2022 at 12:09 AM, ursula said:

One more thing: The ending with Eloise knowing the truth about Penelope but Penelope still feeling emboldened to publish as Lady Whistledown is literally unexplainable.

thank you--I was wondering if I was missing something. Eloise knows and Pen sits down to go back to writing. How does that work? what prevents Eloise from exposing her? I'm not sure what Eloise would have to lose at this point --and even if she calms down and doesn't want to hurt her friend, does this mean Pen just stops writing about the Bridgerton's? 

[bijoux]

Penelope literally thumbed her nose at the Queen in her column about Anthony and Edwina's failed wedding. I gasped at that voice over. So she's definitely a little insane at least and willing to spit in the wind. This decision tracks.

[RedbirdNelly]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:13 AM, Pestilentia said:

 

And in a society when a young woman alone in a room with a young man is scandalous, can someone explain to me how both Pen and Eloise are running all over town alone at all hours? Are there not servants in the houses who notice things like young unmarried girls sneaking out at night and going to dicey areas? Carriages require drivers, horses require care. The "downstairs" staff in both these homes must be deaf and blind.

I realize this is a show and we are supposed to overlook a lot, but this does push the envelope. It's not like they can just run down to the shop or hop in their car, tell mom they are going out to grab a burger and then swing by the shop. The whole carriage thing takes some setting up. It's not grabbing an Uber. 

Which is among the reasons why I was not happy with the "Pen is LW" thing in season 1--it just didn't make sense at all how some teenager would pull all that off. I was willing to just ignore that this season--and at least they showed some of it (her posing as acting on behalf of her mistress) and pulled in a helper--but still hard to take, not to mention El's ability to get anywhere when she wants.

[moonorchid]

I loved it, and I do think I liked it a little more than the first season. It’s soapy and exaggerated and down right trope at times but dammit, sometimes that all really works, lol. Anthony and Kate were fantastic, I kept wanting the show to go back to them. 
 

The only thing I could do without is the Feathertons, but I guess every show needs a foil. 
 

Eloise is beyond petulant, lol. I get how she doesn’t want to play the role society sets for her but dammit, your brother just got jilted at the alter, your family is in shambles, can you put aside your snide remarks and be a little sympathetic. She acts like she’s the only one who suffers from the era she lives in. 
 

I really enjoyed the family dynamics. Benedict and colin are just good guys and good brothers. Anthony took on all the duties of the family so they wouldn’t have to. Their stories were mostly filler to me but not a waste of time. 
 

Edwina is a much more fleshed out character here than the book. I really liked her even when she held her grudge for too damn long. She was hurt and angry. She’s the baby of the family but no longer a baby. She’s a woman with her own mind and her sister whom she loves dearly didn’t respect her enough to let her form her own opinions about all matters. Edwina could have been a villain, but instead she’s a human being. One who was hurt so she lashed out, but in the end saw that what was happening between Kate abs Anthony wasn’t about her and she was no longer going to be the reason they didn’t marry. She loved Kate so much that she essentially, got over it. 

I loved how daphne was used this season. She’s now the wise old sage in matters of the heart lol. I know that Simon doesn’t have much of a role in this story but it still would have been nice to see him even in a cameo role in the end. He is family after all :) 

im really curious to see how they progress from here. It might do them well to mold this as an ensemble (like they have been) except maybe only bring in some of the books. It seems they’ve already twisted things to where it might not make sense to have an entire book be a season. I think they might be heading that way, cause I definitely want to see more of Anthony and Kate. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by moonorchid

[scarynikki12]

One easy to miss thing that I love is that the catalyst for the Sharmas and Bridgertons being saved from ruin was Portia's ego. She invited both to her ball because she wanted literally everyone to see how well the Featheringtons were doing. If she hadn't then Kate and Anthony wouldn't have danced, Charlotte wouldn't have seen their feelings, been reminded of her own love with George (assumption on my part), and saved the two families reputations. There may still have been a scenario where Anthony and Kate finally admitted their feelings to each other and gotten married but without Charlotte's public assistance the society shunning may not have stopped.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

thank you--I was wondering if I was missing something. Eloise knows and Pen sits down to go back to writing. How does that work? what prevents Eloise from exposing her? I'm not sure what Eloise would have to lose at this point --and even if she calms down and doesn't want to hurt her friend, does this mean Pen just stops writing about the Bridgerton's? 

Presumably they want to deal with the aftermath in season three. That's a good, juicy, dramatic story to tell. No need to rush it at the end of the episode when they can tell all of it next season. 

[Conotocarious]

6 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

thank you--I was wondering if I was missing something. Eloise knows and Pen sits down to go back to writing. How does that work? what prevents Eloise from exposing her? I'm not sure what Eloise would have to lose at this point --and even if she calms down and doesn't want to hurt her friend, does this mean Pen just stops writing about the Bridgerton's? 

But we don’t know what she writes. She could out herself in that next column for all we know right now. 

[Meow25]

I rewatched some episodes.  I still hate season two, and most of the hate was complete disregard for the book...BUT I realized that I HATE Edwina in the series, but loved her in the book.  In the series she acts like a dimwit.  Kate in the series is PERFECTION, but Edwina grates on my every last nerve.  I think its the actress, but she was so dippy.  

I love Eloise's story (the 5th book) but I've lost all hope.  Eloise was insufferable ALL of this season.  She's just SO extra.  I can't stand her attitude.  I still like Pen, but I started to dislike her also in this season.  WHERE WAS COLIN?!?  This was not Colin.  

Benedict was a shining light in the boring drama that was this season.  They better not eff up his season.  Kate and Anthony were beautiful and perfect, but it dragged on FAR too long.  Getting 10 minutes of happiness was unconscionable.