S14.E11: Worst. Dinner Party. Ever!

[Rightside]

So were the producers working overtime on the dinner party script?

There was zero reason for O to bring up what was the phone to all the other couples. That being said, there are probably tons of apps that are on phones from stores, food places etc that are never used.

I can run a scan on my phone that shows idle apps.

[kristen111]

9 hours ago, buttersister said:

Mark feels bad because he's going to divorce Lindsey. No spoilers. But 100%. I thought I heard him say that his boss told him to come back when filming was over--and that Mark felt betrayed and was (thanks, Lindsey) suddenly feeling like he should be doing something else. Or maybe it was just like he said, I gotta be doin' sumthin' and that's asap. For a moment, I thought he'd tell Chris and Chris would help him into real estate. Check the cutting room floor. Or the trash folder, I should say.

I don't think any of these couples are still together today, unless Steve has either a) a job or b) a very large bank account/investments/Noi's name on the accounts.

Was this the requisite "alls-well" episode? The one that lulls viewers into believing marriage is possible with a stranger? That this season is worth watching? What do the kids call it? Fail. 

True about Mark .. he wants to let her down easy.  For a minute, I thought he was caving into her.  Fireworks to come, yikes!

[Sycophant4Lease]

11 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Mark said his boss cut him off due to covid.   So it just happened as they were filming. It was nice that Lindsay suggested that he take time to  find the right job, not just a job. Other than that, she’s just too too much of a personality. Mark is your average Joe, and she’s going to exhaust him. 

This breakfast and then wedding day re-creation was the most I’ve seen Jasmina and Michael  smile. I wonder if they will make it. 
 

Steve and Noi are  both boring and immature as possible.  He’s never going to want to work full time for the next 30 years and she’s never going to be okay will him freelancing. 
 

The gesture was nice indeed.  But keep in mind, it came from Lindsey.  In less than two weeks, all she's going to do is throw it back in his face.  "I tell you to take your time and find the right job.  And in that time, all you've done is sit on your @$$ and you haven't even given me the praise and attention I truly deserve for allowing this.  Go back to your $60,000 dollar a year piece of $h!+ job.  And live in your bug infested apartment.  I'm done with this."

Also, am I the ONLY person watching this show who's annoyed at the following two things?

The constant usages of "vulnerable" in practically every conversation between Michael and JasMEANa, as well as Katina and Olajuwon?  And calling it an "anniversary" only after one month.  Anniversary is annual.  The correct term is, mensiversary.  I could even live with the term Lindsey used, "monthiversary".  It wasn't correct.  But it's at least less annoying than the former.

[Jeanne222]

10 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Did Katina really ‘forget’ the dating app was on her phone? O didn’t handle it well, he wasn’t letting her explain herself. 
Looks like more drama next week, maybe that will be more interesting than this week. 

Personally I think the dating ap was her back up plan ....or....production threw it in because they too were bored with the episode!

Loving watching Noi's wardrobe!  She's tiny and knows how to dress her body and occasion!

Would love to see a spread sheet on Steve's finances!  Is he doing freelance work now?  Everybody that has a job is working and doing the show!  He can too!

[kristen111]

11 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Welp, everything was going so well until O had to go and ruin it by wondering if his marriage is ‘real’. Katina melts down in 3…2…1…? 

Maybe he saw her in that dress and thought “ damn, I’m not getting none of that”, lol.

[Rightside]

I still think the producers, when they aren't trying to cause dinner party drama, have been fixated on Steve not currently having a job.

He could get a job in five minutes and maybe he wants to wait until the show is over to do that. They probably can't find major conflicts between Noi and Steve.

Are Noi and Steve the next Vinny/Bri and Jessica/Austin?? The producers create drama everywhere!

Edited March 19, 2022 by Rightside

[Mr. Miner]

Steve is an adventurous free spirit!

[kristen111]

52 minutes ago, Rightside said:

I still think the producers, when they aren't trying to cause dinner party drama, have be fixated on Steve not currently having a job.

He could get a job in five minutes and maybe he wants to wait until the show is over to do that. They probably can't find major conflicts between Noi and Steve.

Are Noi and Steve the next Vinny/Bri and Jessica/Austin?? The producers create drama everywhere!

I believed in this show in the very beginning with Basement Ryan and the rest, but now, I believe production took over completely.  None of these couples belong together.  It’s so obvious and sad for us viewers.  Disappointing.

[kristen111]

Yay! .. MAFS Australia coming back end of March.

[OFDgal]

14 hours ago, Mercolleen said:

I am watchin on delay and fast-forwarding through all the friend conversations. Ugh, why do the producers give so much time to people talking about how they feel about the EXPERIMENT instead of showing the getting to know each other?

Katina and O are in Providence. I recognize all the scenery around the gonDUla.

Thanks for the gondola info.  I was trying to figure out where they were and didn't recognize any Boston landmmarks.  

[For Cereals]

10 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Manipulation.

I even give O the side eye for the gift Katina mentioned in the Aftershow.  She said he gave her a charm bracelet on their wedding day and he gives her charms. Now, in most other situations, I’d think “how cute,” but in this one it feels more like dog treats for good behavior.

[kristen111]

Typical Lindsey .. pushing the radio button constantly while in the car with Mark.  Just HAS to get her way.  Bet he can’t wait until Decision Day.  He’s going to say “I just can’t with Lindsey”.  I hope.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, cinsays said:

Lindsay is sophisticated? 

She's more sophisticated than Mark!

From Merriam Webster:

Quote

: deprived of native or original simplicity: such as

a: highly complicated or developed

b: having a refined knowledge of the ways of the world cultivated especially through wide experience

From Dictionary.com:

Quote

• (of a person, ideas, tastes, manners, etc.) altered by education, experience, etc., so as to be worldly-wise; not naive:a sophisticated young socialite;the sophisticated eye of an experienced journalist.
• pleasing or satisfactory to the tastes of sophisticates, or people who are educated, cultured, and worldly-wise:sophisticated music.
• deceptive; misleading.
• complex or intricate, as a system, process, piece of machinery, or the like:a sophisticated electronic control system.
• of, for, or reflecting educated taste, knowledgeable use, etc.:Many Americans are drinking more sophisticated wines now.

She definitely has more knowledge and experience with all of the above than Mark.  Maybe not much but more than him.  He's a simple guy with simple tastes and (in my opinion) not much wordly knowledge.  He has a trunk full of Goldfish snacks.  He never ate a taco until he met her.

Notice that the definitions say nothing about manners and skill in getting along well with people!  Lots of "sophisticated" chefs and artists out there that would make Lindsey look like Miss Congeniality by comparison.

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I wish people would stop with the phone shit.

I have a few dating apps on my phone. I never use them at this point. It wouldn't even cross my mind to delete them because I don't give a shit about them. And if you are that pressed about it, you can look on the phone and see the last time it was used.

I also have years old text threads and pictures I forgot all about. They just get transferred from phone to phone just like a bunch of other stuff. In a bubble, it means nothing. Literally nothing. Having and using are two different things.

I used to have my phone set to delete texts after a year. Then my father died and I didn’t want his texts deleted so now I have my phone set to never delete them. I do go in manually and delete old ones I don’t need, but it’s not like I set a reminder to do that - I just do it when I think of it. 

If Katina has a dating app on the phone but no profile, it’s not a thing. In order to be off the app you have to delete your profile - deleting the app itself doesn’t do that. Your profile would still be on there, people could still message you. Deleting the profile is more permanent; she’d have to start totally over creating a new one if she wanted to be active on the app again.

2 hours ago, Rightside said:

I still think the producers, when they aren't trying to cause dinner party drama, have be fixated on Steve not currently having a job.

He could get a job in five minutes and maybe he wants to wait until the show is over to do that.

Yeah, I remain on the “it’s not that serious that he doesn’t have a 9-5” tip. If his bills are paid, which they appear to be, it’s fine. It may not be fine for Noi, but that’s a separate issue (and I blame the experts, not Steve, for that). There are lots of ways to support oneself and a family that don’t involve a traditional, punching a clock 9-5, especially if you work in tech like he does. It seems like he, like many, is using this time to figure out what he wants his life to look like and he wants more flexibility. 

[Racj82]

5 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I used to have my phone set to delete texts after a year. Then my father died and I didn’t want his texts deleted so now I have my phone set to never delete them. I do go in manually and delete old ones I don’t need, but it’s not like I set a reminder to do that - I just do it when I think of it. 

If Katina has a dating app on the phone but no profile, it’s not a thing. In order to be off the app you have to delete your profile - deleting the app itself doesn’t do that. Your profile would still be on there, people could still message you. Deleting the profile is more permanent; she’d have to start totally over creating a new one if she wanted to be active on the app again.

Yeah, I remain on the “it’s not that serious that he doesn’t have a 9-5” tip. If his bills are paid, which they appear to be, it’s fine. It may not be fine for Noi, but that’s a separate issue (and I blame the experts, not Steve, for that). There are lots of ways to support oneself and a family that don’t involve a traditional, punching a clock 9-5, especially if you work in tech like he does. It seems like he, like many, is using this time to figure out what he wants his life to look like and he wants more flexibility. 

At this point, it's not about money. She wants that man out of the house. She doesn't want her husband to be home all day. Work or no work. 

2 hours ago, Rightside said:

So were the producers working overtime on the dinner party script?

There was zero reason for O to bring up what was the phone to all the other couples. That being said, there are probably tons of apps that are on phones from stores, food places etc that are never used.

I can run a scan on my phone that shows idle apps.

If you haven't noticed by now, O is a petty manchild. He was being himself. It had nothing to do with producers.

[kristen111]

43 minutes ago, OFDgal said:

Thanks for the gondola info.  I was trying to figure out where they were and didn't recognize any Boston landmmarks.  

That Gondula ride looked nice.  In fact the town looked nice.  Reminded me of River Walk in San Antonia or wherever.  Have to check it out.

[Racj82]

19 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

She's more sophisticated than Mark!

From Merriam Webster:

From Dictionary.com:

She definitely has more knowledge and experience with all of the above than Mark.  Maybe not much but more than him.  He's a simple guy with simple tastes and (in my opinion) not much wordly knowledge.  He has a trunk full of Goldfish snacks.  He never ate a taco until he met her.

Notice that the definitions say nothing about manners and skill in getting along well with people!  Lots of "sophisticated" chefs and artists out there that would make Lindsey look like Miss Congeniality by comparison.

Him enjoying his snacks and not eating taco mean nothing. It hilarious to me how much people are judge by what they eat or have tried. We all have our routines. Some people are picky eaters.

Beyond that we don't know much about him to call him less worldy than anyone else. You can not have a adventurous pallette and also travel or learn different things.

[Elizzikra]

14 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Did Katina really ‘forget’ the dating app was on her phone? O didn’t handle it well, he wasn’t letting her explain herself. 
Looks like more drama next week, maybe that will be more interesting than this week. 

I think she could have. I don’t know how younger people are about their phones but I literally never go through my apps and delete the ones I’m not using (and there are tons of them). My phone has plenty of storage and I know where to find the things that I use pretty quickly. It’s just not something I ever do. I could totally see that Katina just hadn’t bothered to delete it. 

What bothered me more though was the way that O handled it - from ambushing Katina at the dinner (“I’m upset and I’m not going to tell you why”) to him yelling at Katina and not getting a word in. It was clear (he said as much) that there was nothing she could say that would make it ok. This was something that she had done wrong that was more evidence that she was a bad wife and he wasn’t going to hear anything else.

He’s awful. I don’t love Katina but she doesn’t deserve this. I hope she dumps his ass.

[Welshman in Ca]

1 hour ago, kristen111 said:

Typical Lindsey .. pushing the radio button constantly while in the car with Mark.  Just HAS to get her way.  Bet he can’t wait until Decision Day.  He’s going to say “I just can’t with Lindsey”.  I hope.

The rule around here is that the driver whoever it is is the only one who gets to fuck with the radio buttons, if you don't like what's on then drive yourself or walk. She who shall be obeyed likes listening to country music 🤢 while I have Sirius/xm & I listen to Howard Stern who she hates. Usually we turn it off & talk to each other on short trips or on longer trips we talk until she falls asleep & then I'll turn on the radio.

[kristen111]

18 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Did Katina really ‘forget’ the dating app was on her phone? O didn’t handle it well, he wasn’t letting her explain herself. 
Looks like more drama next week, maybe that will be more interesting than this week. 

It really doesn’t matter.  First he went crazy over the cooking and cleaning, now this app thing.  He’s demented.  It will always be something with this guy.  I can’t imagine having children with him, as he will be watching for every little mistake.  The girl will always be a wreck if she stays with him.  He will beat her down.

[Racj82]

25 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I think she could have. I don’t know how younger people are about their phones but I literally never go through my apps and delete the ones I’m not using (and there are tons of them). My phone has plenty of storage and I know where to find the things that I use pretty quickly. It’s just not something I ever do. I could totally see that Katina just hadn’t bothered to delete it. 

What bothered me more though was the way that O handled it - from ambushing Katina at the dinner (“I’m upset and I’m not going to tell you why”) to him yelling at Katina and not getting a word in. It was clear (he said as much) that there was nothing she could say that would make it ok. This was something that she had done wrong that was more evidence that she was a bad wife and he wasn’t going to hear anything else.

He’s awful. I don’t love Katina but she doesn’t deserve this. I hope she dumps his ass.

Yeah, it's a very normal thing. If had caught alert from the app, that's a smoking gun. She would have to actively be using the app to get that. It just being on her phone is nothing.

He keeps trying to control her and scold her like a child. Next week he will probably bombard her with love quotes to keep her around. I'm not calling him an abuser but he definitely has abuser tendencies.

[kristen111]

2 minutes ago, Welshman in Ca said:

The rule around here is that the driver whoever it is is the only one who gets to fuck with the radio buttons, if you don't like what's on then drive yourself or walk. She who shall be obeyed likes listening to country music 🤢 while I have Sirius/xm & I listen to Howard Stern who she hates. Usually we turn it off & talk to each other on short trips or on longer trips we talk until she falls asleep & then I'll turn on the radio.

We usually talk out our differences in the car, as we don’t want the kids to hear fighting.  Lol.  It works.  Besides he like sports shows and I like the Oldies music.

[kirklandia]

Not that it matters, but – – I don't think Lindsey was poking the radio buttons in the car. When she was pushing the buttons, Mark said something like - don't look, it's a surprise, I don't want you to know where we're going. So she was trying to turn on the navigation system.

So I'll give her a pass for that, kinda cute. But I don't give her a pass for constantly poking Mark himself, and pushing his buttons.

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by kirklandia

[Yeah No]

59 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

Him enjoying his snacks and not eating taco mean nothing. It hilarious to me how much people are judge by what they eat or have tried. We all have our routines. Some people are picky eaters.

Beyond that we don't know much about him to call him less worldy than anyone else. You can not have a adventurous pallette and also travel or learn different things.

His limited experience with food is only one example of his lack of sophistication.  He doesn't have to like it but to never have even tried a taco?  Keeping a case of Goldfish in his trunk and having to eat them before he goes to bed?  That says more about him than just being a picky eater.  I know picky eaters that are very intelligent and sophisticated, even close friends.  We all form an opinion about people based on what we see.  It's not just me - He is being called a "Joe punch clock" and "Barney Rubble" on other forums, so I'm not the only one to see him as unsophisticated.  He also appears to have a few quirks.  In fact in some ways he makes Lindsey look positively normal by comparison.  If she wasn't so vile he would be the one looking bad in this relationship.  He, Katina and Olajuwon can ride into the sunset in their "gondula" along with a case of Goldfish.

[greeneyedscorpio]

2 hours ago, For Cereals said:

I even give O the side eye for the gift Katina mentioned in the Aftershow.  She said he gave her a charm bracelet on their wedding day and he gives her charms. Now, in most other situations, I’d think “how cute,” but in this one it feels more like dog treats for good behavior.

He probably gives her one after she passes one of his "tests".

2 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Yay! .. MAFS Australia coming back end of March.

I've been watching it online.  It's the usual shit-storm.  I'm loving it! haha

 

[greeneyedscorpio]

I believe Katina too.  He had her phone on the bus.  If she was worried about him seeing something, she wouldn't have let him have it.  Then when he demanded to see it at home, she handed it right over. She wasn't acting the least bit like she had something to hide. 

My phone was getting full and wanted me to clean it up, so I went through my apps. There were some there that I hadn't used in years and had forgotten about completely.  I think it happens to a lot of us. 

Olajuwan is a hot-head with abusive tendencies.  Why did he have to go straight to yelling at her?  He wouldn't even let her talk.  She needs to run, not walk away.  

[Cramps]

1. Great to see Chris again. He’s funny, intelligent, ambitious, a caring friend and sane. Probably the best potential spouse of either gender this season. Hopefully being on this show will lead him to find someone who appreciates him. Or at least help his real estate business. 
 

2.Lindsay definitely sees herself as more sophisticated than Mark. She does seem more worldly, but taking in her behavior toward others, “sophisticated” is a stretch. 

From what we’ve seen, she has seen more of the world (which she’s bragged about), lives in a more expensive neighborhood. Seems to have had jobs that require more education, and isn’t afraid to step out of her comfort zone and try different things, like eating sushi…So I think that one of her issues with Mark, which she’s trying to ignore, is that socio-economically she thinks she’s married below her usual level. And that sometimes comes out when she feels he doesn’t appreciate her enough.  
 

* (this is my take on Lindsey’s thought process). Not me dumping on Mark. 
 

3. Re: datingAppGate—We saw a shot of olijawon looking at a white phone on the shuttle ride, which was supposedly Katina’s. But later we saw that her phone is black and his is white. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Cramps

[ByTor]

20 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Keeping a case of Goldfish in his trunk and having to eat them before he goes to bed?  That says more about him than just being a picky eater.

I don't know, it says to me that he likes Goldfish. I don't know anybody who doesn't.

2 minutes ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

If she was worried about him seeing something, she wouldn't have let him have it.  Then when he demanded to see it at home, she handed it right over. She wasn't acting the least bit like she had something to hide. 

Plus, it's like the saying to "bet on the fastest horse." Odds aren't so great that any of these marriages will last, why delete the app when you're probably going to us it again?

4 minutes ago, Cramps said:

From what we’ve seen, she has seen more of the world (which she’s bragged about),

She sure knows all about speaking Spanish in Puerto Rico 😂

[spunky]

While I'm happy that she's in therapy and doing better. I would pay good money to see Michaela unleash Hurricane K on Olajuwon.

[Kira53]

4 hours ago, Rightside said:

So were the producers working overtime on the dinner party script?

There was zero reason for O to bring up what was the phone to all the other couples. That being said, there are probably tons of apps that are on phones from stores, food places etc that are never used.

I can run a scan on my phone that shows idle apps.

Production did need some content from the dinner.  Production weren’t feeding them for nothing. Production was desperate for some drama.  “Scripted” such as putting a bug in Olajuwon’s ear and egging him on.  Production knew about the app left on her phone.  And even then, the prior hour and 50 minutes were boring.  It was clear that they set up all of the anniversary celebrations  and “assigned “ each partner each role.  Come on, how did Katina plan a gondola trip when she didn’t even know how to say gondola. How would she remember and believe that a gondola ride would be a perfect trip when she doesn’t even remember what they called it in Italy. Seems like that Italy trip was a wasted visit but then she’s not the brightest bulb in Home Depot.  Stupid of Olajuwon to take the bait.  I can imagine his producer egging him on saying “you really need to get to the bottom of this right away maybe you should ask her at the dinner.”  Oh and production definitely made sure that Lyndsey was liquored up long before the dinner if she didn’t come to the dinner already drunk. I think she was staggering a bit.

[Sycophant4Lease]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

She's more sophisticated than Mark!

From Merriam Webster:

From Dictionary.com:

She definitely has more knowledge and experience with all of the above than Mark.  Maybe not much but more than him.  He's a simple guy with simple tastes and (in my opinion) not much wordly knowledge.  He has a trunk full of Goldfish snacks.  He never ate a taco until he met her.

Notice that the definitions say nothing about manners and skill in getting along well with people!  Lots of "sophisticated" chefs and artists out there that would make Lindsey look like Miss Congeniality by comparison.

I was ready to argue with you, until I read this part.

Moving on.............................

[buttersister]

I'm in the camp of Lindsey has more exposure to things than Mark. Neither of them appears what I call sophisticated. Lindsey's lack of ability to read a room renders her anything but--it appears as though her exposure to other cultures, food, experiences is perceived through the filter of her worldview, I mean, LindseyView. Nothing widens her attitude, she collects experiences to use as ammo. (E.g., she eats sushi but introduces it to Mark in an atavistic and truly non-sensitive manner.)

It would be awesome if she watched this series with a therapist (a real one, not the ones who play at it on this show). Cause her good heart and generosity come with a price tag and that's not really how any of that is supposed to work.

Now I couldn't be married to Mark for more than a hot second, but that doesn't mean I think he's an awful person or deserves to be dissected on TV. I kinda feel bad for him, this being his second attempt--he clearly wants to be married but hasn't found a woman who thinks he's husband material. Otoh, I won't miss him when he's off my TV. Won't miss any of these. Mostly watching now for the snark, and even that's hard to come by. Such mismatches, possibly worse than Atlanta and who'd have thunk that?

[Kira53]

4 hours ago, Rightside said:

I still think the producers, when they aren't trying to cause dinner party drama, have be fixated on Steve not currently having a job.

He could get a job in five minutes and maybe he wants to wait until the show is over to do that. They probably can't find major conflicts between Noi and Steve.

Are Noi and Steve the next Vinny/Bri and Jessica/Austin?? The producers create drama everywhere!

They have no storyline without that.  Noi is not an interesting person.  The tried to set her up with an alter ego based on her brother’s alter ego.  She isn’t fun at all.  No personality to speak of.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Kira53

[Yeah No]

38 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I don't know, it says to me that he likes Goldfish. I don't know anybody who doesn't.

My husband keeps a box of Goldfish in the garage.  Unlike Mark he doesn't have to eat them every night before he goes to bed or have a big box in the trunk at all times.  Lindsey has already talked about this and other habits of his and that's what's making me see him as quirky.  I think if not for the fact that Lindsey has been giving the show enough drama for the two of them I'm sure there would have been more of a focus on Mark's habits.  He strikes me as someone that has a hard time with new and uncomfortable things, which is one reason Lindsey sometimes says he's like a little boy about some things.  I think he would have found most women he could have been matched with "a lot".  Of course the show had to match him with someone who would be too much for pretty much anyone!

[Yeah No]

52 minutes ago, Cramps said:

2.Lindsay definitely sees herself as more sophisticated than Mark. She does seem more worldly, but taking in her behavior toward others, “sophisticated” is a stretch. 

I think the word has lately had connotations put on it that don't come along with the definition, as in referring to refined manners and the like.  But that's not what the dictionary says.  I majored in Philosophy as an undergrad. and having studied the Sophists, I have some experience with the history of this word.

In case anyone is interested in the etymology of the word "sophisticated", this is from Dictionary.com:

Quote

Sophisticated

Sophisticated is closely connected with sophistry. Though that word in turn came from the Greek sophos meaning wise, sophists in classical Greece — around the fourth century BC — were itinerant teachers of philosophy and rhetoric who didn’t enjoy a good reputation. They were sceptical about the possibility of achieving genuine knowledge and were thought by many to be more concerned with winning arguments than arriving at the truth. Plato considered them to be a dishonest bunch of lecturers, and sophistry came to mean fallacious reasoning.

In medieval times, the Latin verb sophisticare was invented with a related sense of dishonest tampering with something. It was applied particularly to traders who added foreign substances to expensive goods to bulk them out and so increase their profits. The earliest example we know of refers to merchants meddling with pepper, then a rare and valuable spice. So the verb from its first appearance in English meant adulterate. Later writers applied it to those who added cheap wines to bulk out expensive ones, and to those who adulterated tobacco with the sweepings of the floor. In the early nineteenth century, it was hard to find a basic foodstuff on sale in London markets that hadn’t been sophisticated in some way: alum in bread, roasted acorns in coffee, dried hedgerow leaves in tea, and so on.

Curiously, while all this was going on, sophisticated itself was shifting sense. By the beginning of the eighteenth century, it could refer to a thing that had been deprived of its primitive or natural state, and so rendered artificial. But the real shift was going on with unsophisticated. Early on this meant something that was genuine, but then moved to refer to somebody who was in a natural and unspoiled state, and so was ingenuous or inexperienced. It was only around the end of the nineteenth century that it began to be possible to use sophisticated as the opposite of unsophisticated in this sense, for somebody worldly-wise, well versed in life’s ways and who had a subtle and discriminating nature. And it was applied to theories, techniques and equipment even more recently — only from the middle of last century on.

Sophistication in this sense is a truly modern phenomenon.

 

[Empress1]

18 minutes ago, buttersister said:

I'm in the camp of Lindsey has more exposure to things than Mark. Neither of them appears what I call sophisticated.

Agreed. Part of sophistication, to me, involves emotional intelligence, reading a room, being able to make others feel comfortable around you no matter how different they are from you. That often comes with exposure to different people and places, but not always. Lindsay is kind of rough around the edges, IMO - screaming “the least you can do is fucking make me cum” in a bowling alley bathroom loud enough for everyone outside to hear isn’t sophisticated.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, Cramps said:

1. Great to see Chris again. He’s funny, intelligent, ambitious, a caring friend and sane. Probably the best potential spouse of either gender this season. Hopefully being on this show will lead him to find someone who appreciates him. Or at least help his real estate business. 

Seeing Chris again was the best thing about this sorry episode.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Production did need some content from the dinner.  Production weren’t feeding them for nothing. Production was desperate for some drama.  “Scripted” such as putting a bug in Olajuwon’s ear and egging him on.  Production knew about the app left on her phone.  And even then, the prior hour and 50 minutes were boring.  It was clear that they set up all of the anniversary celebrations  and “assigned “ each partner each role.  Come on, how did Katina plan a gondola trip when she didn’t even know how to say gondola. How would she remember and believe that a gondola ride would be a perfect trip when she doesn’t even remember what they called it in Italy. Seems like that Italy trip was a wasted visit but then she’s not the brightest bulb in Home Depot.  Stupid of Olajuwon to take the bait.  I can imagine his producer egging him on saying “you really need to get to the bottom of this right away maybe you should ask her at the dinner.”  Oh and production definitely made sure that Lyndsey was liquored up long before the dinner if she didn’t come to the dinner already drunk. I think she was staggering a bit.

I agree with this 100%.  How many times has this happened on this show?  Almost every season someone looks at their spouse's cell phone and sees stuff that causes a disagreement.  It's obvious by now that the producers are putting them up to it just for the drama.

[LennieBriscoe]

Katina and her husband can pronounce  "Olajuwon" but not the simpler "gondola"? Fuhgeddaboutit!

 

[glitterpussy]

I know it's probably all a setup, but what does Steve propose to DO all day as a "house husband?" He doesn't want to do the chores, etc.  They don't have kids. No yardwork to do. Sushi seems pretty low maintenance.

Mr. GP doesn't "work", he's retired USMC. But we have two small kids, three dogs and three chickens at home, plus a huge yard and garden. That all keeps him pretty busy! Plus he does most of the chores, except shopping and cooking which I do 100% of, and we have a cleaning person that comes every 2 weeks. If he felt entitled to sit on his ass all day, while I worked and did exactly 50% of the chores as well, I'd be annoyed.

[Racj82]

I don't really care who is more sophisticated at all. Both of their emotional intelligence need work. Both have flaws. I don't think either are terrible people. Just a mismatch.

At the end of the day, I just think Mark is a regular guy. Not everyone has spectacular tastes or interests. Everyone has quirks. There isn't one person I can think of that doesn't like to do something that would give me pause. Everyone has their things. Live with anyone for a few days and you'll get something that might look embarrassing on paper. So, goldfish and all this just make me shoulder shrug. I don't care. I think Myrla, last season constantly buying shoes and clothes. Most of which I doubt she will wear more than once is silly. But, someone could look at my wall of movies and think that is dumb and a waste of money. Actually, my mom always has. None of that is really important.

Character wise, unless Mark is a 100 percent asshole, I would take him over Lyndsey any day of the week.

And I don't care where she has been or what she has learned. She still has a lot of learning and maturing to do. Mark as well but Lyndsey wears her shitty tendencies on her sleeve.

[bichonblitz]

21 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Katina was in Italy and rode in a gondola but she still doesn’t know how to pronounce it?  She didn’t arrange that trip.  It was production.  What a dope.  What is she bringing to the table?  She’s cute and her figure is outstanding.  What else?

I don't see where any of the women are bringing much of anything to the table, not just Katina. 

Living with Olaj must be a real party.  You never know what's going to set him off and when he will blow his gasket. He's exhausting and borderline abusive. 

 

[kirklandia]

This last episode certainly was a snooze-fest. I totally get why people FF their way through it.  But, on the off chance that I might miss something actually amusing, I just let it run while I multitask.

So I giggled at the ganja-lier's quick comment to Olajuwon that a ganja-la is not related to ganja.  And O was just as quick to indicate that yes, he is acquainted with ganja.

Edited March 18, 2022 by kirklandia

[Racj82]

I didn't think about it until I've heard it verbalized or I read it but O is, in my opinion, projecting onto Katina. If HE had a dating app on his phone he wouldn't be able to resist. When HE had dating apps, I'm sure he used it as a buffet of women he could take down. He can't fathom a random app like that just sitting on someone's phone. "You have to be using it to get laid"!

There are so many ways he could of dealt with that like an adult and he bypassed all of them. It was kind of amazing.

[kristen111]

8 hours ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

He probably gives her one after she passes one of his "tests".

I've been watching it online.  It's the usual shit-storm.  I'm loving it! haha

 

On line?  Who knew?  Thanks.  Another thing to watch.  Just can’t keep up.

[DrewPaul2010]

9 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I think she could have. I don’t know how younger people are about their phones but I literally never go through my apps and delete the ones I’m not using (and there are tons of them). My phone has plenty of storage and I know where to find the things that I use pretty quickly. It’s just not something I ever do. I could totally see that Katina just hadn’t bothered to delete it. 

What bothered me more though was the way that O handled it - from ambushing Katina at the dinner (“I’m upset and I’m not going to tell you why”) to him yelling at Katina and not getting a word in. It was clear (he said as much) that there was nothing she could say that would make it ok. This was something that she had done wrong that was more evidence that she was a bad wife and he wasn’t going to hear anything else.

He’s awful. I don’t love Katina but she doesn’t deserve this. I hope she dumps his ass.

He talks a lot about his definition of how a marriage and a wife should be. I have yet to hear his rendition of what a husband is supposed to be. A husband is supposed to be trusting. He should give her the benefit of the doubt. She didn't hesitate to give her phone to him. Unless he knows she has been using the app he should trust his wife.

On the other hand if she is in fact entertaining and communicating with other potential suitors that would be grounds for him to have a showdown and possibly a disconnect.

I haven't seen much hope for this union anyway. O should engage in a mail order bride. Cook, clean, sex and babies.

 

 

[For Cereals]

9 hours ago, kirklandia said:

Not that it matters, but – – I don't think Lindsey was poking the radio buttons in the car. When she was pushing the buttons, Mark said something like - no you can't look, it's a surprise, I don't want you to know where we're going. So she was trying to turn on the navigation system.

So I'll give her a pass for that, kinda cute. But I don't give her a pass for constantly poking Mark himself, and pushing his buttons.

 

I felt like that was even worse because she was poking around the navigation.  MTS doesn’t know where he’s going, he said he doesn’t do nature (I’m with him) and she’s messing with the map.  I would’ve been blivid.  

I did like the camp site though.  I could do that for a couple of nights…with bug spray and a shower in perfect non-humid weather with Wi-Fi.

[kristen111]

8 hours ago, Cramps said:

2.Lindsay definitely sees herself as more sophisticated than Mark. She does seem more worldly, but taking in her behavior toward others, “sophisticated” is a stretch. 

To me, sophistication goes down the drain when you interrupt people, especially when others  are present.  She could have ten degrees and he only a high school degree, but at least he respects people and doesn’t make them feel less.  That is called a Snob.  It is a stretch.  Mark is kind to everyone.  Lindsey appears very caring, but can stab with her words.  She butts in everyone’s business like she knows everything.  Mark may not have a sheepskin, but that isn’t everything in life, IMO.

[Blissfool]

Really, Steve?! A leopard-print doggy outfit and a leopard-print muumuu for an anniversary gift. You're not married to Mrs. Roper!

To continue with the sophisticated vs. unsophisticated debate:

To me, neither Lindsey or Mark is sophisticated. Lindsey knows about things that grown people should know about. Mark doesn't. He's basic. He's like a child. 

Also, I want to say, that it is embarrassing the way that Mark cringes whenever Lindsey touches him in public. Just accept it! Don't embarrass your wife. He is always very ready to defend others or to care about other people's feelings, except his wife's.

9 hours ago, ByTor said:

I don't know, it says to me that he likes Goldfish. I don't know anybody who doesn't.

Lol! I taught pre-k for 17 years before I was moved to 1st grade. The majority of my prekinders would groan when Goldfish were on the menu for snack time. But maybe that can be attributed to their unsophisticated palates. (I found them gross, too, though.)

Edited March 18, 2022 by Blissfool

[kristen111]

5 hours ago, glitterpussy said:

I know it's probably all a setup, but what does Steve propose to DO all day as a "house husband?" He doesn't want to do the chores, etc.  They don't have kids. No yardwork to do. Sushi seems pretty low maintenance.

Mr. GP doesn't "work", he's retired USMC. But we have two small kids, three dogs and three chickens at home, plus a huge yard and garden. That all keeps him pretty busy! Plus he does most of the chores, except shopping and cooking which I do 100% of, and we have a cleaning person that comes every 2 weeks. If he felt entitled to sit on his ass all day, while I worked and did exactly 50% of the chores as well, I'd be annoyed.

I think a cleaning person takes pressure off everyone, especially a woman, and is great.  Wish I had one, but would have to get rid of books and chakas all around the house first. Lol.  Not enough closets or room in the house.  Hate to get rid of things as they are part of me.