S01.E04: Old White Men

[Jordan Baker]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:56 PM, bluegirl147 said:

Also the acting is very good.  

I'm surprised at how much I like this series. The story itself is compelling, but the acting is just top-notch. I am particularly moved by Stephen Fry's performance. And even the smaller roles are filled with excellent actors.

I loved seeing Alan Ruck as the odd Walgreens exec. He seems to have entired an era in which he plays the wacky guy. (He is very good as the oldest son in Succession.) I saw him once on stage in a touring company of The Producers in which he played Leopold Bloom (Matthew Broderick's character in the original cast.) Funny that they both went from Ferris Bueller to The Producers.

Amanda Seyfried (whom I associate most with Mean Girls) and Naveen Andrews (whom I've never seen before) are wonderful in their roles. I really felt for Sunny when he was being treated so poorly by the TSA staff, but my sympathy has since flown out the window.

I hate to compare it to Inventing Anna (but I will, anyway), but this series is so much better. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Jordan Baker
Spelling matters.

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

Amanda Seyfried (whom I assoiate most with Mean Girls)

For me she is Lily from Veronica Mars.  This is a great part and I'm glad to see she is the one who is doing it.  I wonder how many other actresses wanted to portray Holmes.  

6 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

I loved seeing Alan Ruck as the odd Walgreens exec. He seems to have entired an era in which he plays the wacky guy. (He is very good as the oldest son in Succession.)

He does a really good job of playing men who while not horrible guys nevertheless it's so easy to not like them anyways.    He is one my least favorite characters on Succession.  And on that show that is really saying something.

 

[Cinnabon]

59 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

I'm surprised at how much I like this series. The story itself is compelling, but the acting is just top-notch. I am particularly moved by Stephen Fry's performance. And even the smaller roles are filled with excellent actors.

I loved seeing Alan Ruck as the odd Walgreens exec. He seems to have entired an era in which he plays the wacky guy. (He is very good as the oldest son in Succession.) I saw him once on stage in a touring company of The Producers in which he played Leopold Bloom (Matthew Broderick's character in the original cast.) Funny that they both went from Ferris Bueller to The Producers.

Amanda Seyfried (whom I associate most with Mean Girls) and Naveen Andrews (whom I've never seen before) are wonderful in their roles. I really felt for Sunny when he was being treated so poorly by the TSA staff, but my sympathy has since flown out the window.

I hate to compare it to Inventing Anna (but I will, anyway), but this series is so much better. 

 

 

Cameron! ❤️
 

I worked in Silicon Valley from a few years in the late 90s/early 00s and this episode triggered my PTSD from working in an open office environment. All those glass walled conference rooms! Ugh! I was always the one questioning everything, to my detriment. Having the foresight to see potential issues with the latest products was not seen positively by management. We did have a lot of expensive parties, though.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Cinnabon

[AntFTW]

12 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

I hate to compare it to Inventing Anna (but I will, anyway), but this series is so much better. 

I agree. The acting here is so such better. The way they capture the events of the story is amazing and it highlights the great acting.

[40Love]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:02 PM, Carolina Girl said:

But then remember that ridiculous "patch" that she patented, which would somehow diagnose and administer medication and which Dr. Phyllis Gardner told her wouldn't work?  Holmes got extremely indignant about being told she was, essentially, pursuing a pipe dream.

That idea was so ridiculous that even a science dumb-dumb like me knew it was impossible. Maybe the diagnosis part was kind of feasible somehow, someday... but, how in the world would the patch be able to administer medication? How would the medicine get on the patch: telepathy... osmosis... beam technology for Star Trek? Would the patch have some kind real-time tech that would send data back to a lab. We have that with cellphones now... but imagine the outcry of having a patch directly linked to your bloodstream. WTH??!! I couldn't believe it when her mentor from the lab sent her to talk to the Metcalf character. I thought "what is he smoking"? That wasn't an idea based in reality. She should have been stopped right there.

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, 40Love said:

That idea was so ridiculous that even a science dumb-dumb like me knew it was impossible. Maybe the diagnosis part was kind of feasible somehow, someday... but, how in the world would the patch be able to administer medication? How would the medicine get on the patch: telepathy... osmosis... beam technology for Star Trek? Would the patch have some kind real-time tech that would send data back to a lab. We have that with cellphones now... but imagine the outcry of having a patch directly linked to your bloodstream. WTH??!! I couldn't believe it when her mentor from the lab sent her to talk to the Metcalf character. I thought "what is he smoking"? That wasn't an idea based in reality. She should have been stopped right there.

There are patches that carry medication like nicotine, estrogen, birth control; so the general idea that a patch could administer antibiotics is not too far fetched.   However, anyone with any knowledge of infectious disease would know that the organisms involved in most infections treated with antibiotics, ie bacteria, are not found in the bloodstream at the early stages of infections.  There would only be bacteria in the bloodstream at the point where sepsis develops.  At that point,  the patient is very sick with a high fever, shaking chills, and is going to know they're sick and seek help. If the idea of the patch is to diagnose and treat infections before the patient becomes seriously ill, this is not the way.

Also, even in susceptible people with immunocompromise, how often would they get sick and with what organisms?   Even if someone was prone to UTI's or strep throat or whatever, they would have to wear the patch 24/7/365 to get a jump on a new infection which, as I noted, isn't even in the bloodstream anyway and would only occur in a small percentage of patients on any given day.  The cost would be astronomical.  Then, the patch would have to be loaded with multiple different antibiotics because the sorts of bacteria that cause UTI's are not the same as the ones that cause strep pharyngitis and the antibiotics needed to treat each could be different.  Then, there are people allergic to certain antibiotics, the risk of a false negative or positive test and the risk of someone who wasn't known to have an allergic reaction to a specific antibiotic developing one and having a life threatening anaphylactic reaction as the antibiotic is pumped directly in their bloodstream.

Same with Elizabeth's idea of putting the machine in the battlefield.  First off, soldiers are young and healthy so it isn't like they would have serious underlying conditions that would require immediate assessment and their basic blood work is normal.  Second, things like low blood counts from bleeding develop over time.  If you check someone's count shortly after they begin bleeding heavily, it will still be normal.  That's why medics are trained to assess the wound and estimate blood loss on what they see.  They then administer blood products based on their assessment and the vital signs.  Everybody who is wounded gets antibiotics, so that is covered, too.  They are preventative, so no blood work would be helpful.  Of all of the options for assessment and treatment of a war casualty, blood work is pretty low on the list in the immediate aftermath.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Rootbeer

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I wonder how many other actresses wanted to portray Holmes.  

I believe Kate McKinnon was originally cast in this.

[AntFTW]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I believe Kate McKinnon was originally cast in this.

I think she would have made an AMAZING Elizabeth Holmes.

[Johnny Dollar]

Phyllis Gardner (the Laurie Metcalf character) told her that antibiotics can’t work with a patch because the patch couldn’t physically hold the amount of medication required to deliver a significant enough dose. Especially since they may have to be several relatively large doses per day. BTW, look up on YouTube Elizabeth Holmes piece done by 60 Minutes Australia. Great interview with Dr Gardner where she very aptly describes the board as a bunch of old white men thinking with their dicks ( although she doesn’t use that word).

Her board definitely had some high- powered Washington insiders. But virtually none of them had no medical or science background, so they didn’t know what they didn’t know. Channing Robertson should’ve known better. He kept defending her to the bitter end.

Same with the big dollar investors she went after. Names like Walton, Rupert Murdoch and Betsy DeVos each lost over $100 million. None of them had any science background and were feeling the FOMO of missing out in the tech boom. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I wear an Insulin pump and a continuous glucose monitor (CGM).  With both, there are cannulars worn underneath the skin, a transmitter, sensor, motor, etc. .  These devices have been around quite a while and passed safety tests. However, there are still so many issues with these devices, especially the CGM, that I wonder if something hinky is going on.  Lol.  After seeing how Holmes operated, it makes you wonder.  
 

I never knew that Holmes was sued by her neighbor.  

Edited March 15, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Cinnabon]

25 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Phyllis Gardner (the Laurie Metcalf character) told her that antibiotics can’t work with a patch because the patch couldn’t physically hold the amount of medication required to deliver a significant enough dose. Especially since they may have to be several relatively large doses per day. BTW, look up on YouTube Elizabeth Holmes piece done by 60 Minutes Australia. Great interview with Dr Gardner where she very aptly describes the board as a bunch of old white men thinking with their dicks ( although she doesn’t use that word).

Her board definitely had some high- powered Washington insiders. But virtually none of them had no medical or science background, so they didn’t know what they didn’t know. Channing Robertson should’ve known better. He kept defending her to the bitter end.

Same with the big dollar investors she went after. Names like Walton, Rupert Murdoch and Betsy DeVos each lost over $100 million. None of them had any science background and were feeling the FOMO of missing out in the tech boom. 

As someone who worked in a Silicon Valley startup back in the day, I find it interesting and also mind boggling that she appealed to and fooled so many men. First, I don’t think she’s particularly beautiful or brilliant, and second, Silicon Valley was/is a pretty misogynistic place. Yet somehow she managed to stretch out this farce for many years.

7 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

There would only be bacteria in the bloodstream at the point where sepsis develops.  At that point,  the patient is very sick with a high fever, shaking chills, and is going to know they're sick and seek help.

This is why I found it ridiculous that they were celebrating that the only test that worked was the one for sepsis. No one is going to be testing for sepsis at home! 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 hours ago, Jordan Baker said:

Amanda Seyfried (whom I associate most with Mean Girls) and Naveen Andrews (whom I've never seen before) are wonderful in their roles.

A lot of us fell in love with Naveen from the show "Lost".  He is dreamy.  

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

A lot of us fell in love with Naveen from the show "Lost".  He is dreamy.  

Yup.

[qtpye]

On 3/10/2022 at 11:34 AM, bluegirl147 said:

Yes. They acted like they were a just a tech company. Elizabeth had no regard for the actual human beings that would use the machines and rely on them for accurate blood results.  

Each episode I despise quite a few of these characters even more.  It was chilling that Channing didn't care that machines were going to go into "wellness centers" without them being fully operational.  And then ratted Ian out to Elizabeth.  

Even knowing the outcome I'm still fascinated/horrified that otherwise intelligent people continue to fall for the bullshit Elizabeth is spewing.  Watching it happen you can see how cults are formed with a leader who is able to manipulate and charm at the same time.  And now we see the menacing tone she had with Ian.  It's been a while since I have actively been rooting so hard for someone's downfall. 

After all this, she married an incredibly rich handsome man, had two beautiful kids, and now lives on a $145 million dollar estate. Sadly, she is living her best life.

After her trial, one juror said he did not want to convict her of anything because she had such good intentions. She is really good at conning men.

 

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, qtpye said:

After all this, she married an incredibly rich handsome man, had two beautiful kids, and now lives on a $145 million dollar estate. Sadly, she is living her best life.

After her trial, one juror said he did not want to convict her of anything because she had such good intentions. She is really good at conning men.

 

She hasn’t been sentenced yet, has she?

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

She hasn’t been sentenced yet, has she?

No, the sentencing will be in September.

[MaggieG]

15 hours ago, qtpye said:

After all this, she married an incredibly rich handsome man, had two beautiful kids, and now lives on a $145 million dollar estate. Sadly, she is living her best life.

After her trial, one juror said he did not want to convict her of anything because she had such good intentions. She is really good at conning men.

 

I thought she just had one kid? 

[40Love]

16 hours ago, qtpye said:

After all this, she married an incredibly rich handsome man, had two beautiful kids, and now lives on a $145 million dollar estate. Sadly, she is living her best life.

And this right here is why she will likely not face any real punishment. The judge will say taking her away from her children will negatively affect their lives and he/she can't possibly do that to them. She'll get probation or house arrest for some unbelievably short amount of time. It's what happened in at least 2 rape convictions involving young, rich men. The judge let them off the hook with a slap on the wrist. 

Sunny will take the fall. If convicted, the judge will not afford this older, non-white man with an accent, who Holmes accused of abuse any slack at all. He will get close to or the full 20 years behind bars. JMHO.

 

 

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, MaggieG said:

I thought she just had one kid? 

She does. The rest of the sentence is correct, though.  Soon, she will be living her best life behind bars.

Quote

nd this right here is why she will likely not face any real punishment. The judge will say taking her away from her children will negatively affect their lives and he/she can't possibly do that to them. She'll get probation or house arrest for some unbelievably short amount of time. It's what happened in at least 2 rape convictions involving young, rich men. The judge let them off the hook with a slap on the wrist. 

But Elizabeth scammed a bunch of powerful, wealthy white guys.  If they want her to serve time, and I think they do; she will not get any sympathy from the judge about leaving a child that was conceived after she was indicted.  She'll go to prison, not for as long as others who are not in her privileged position, but she will be incarcerated unless her wealthy investors intercede with the judge.  I don't think that will happen. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Rootbeer

[bluegirl147]

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

But Elizabeth scammed a bunch of powerful, wealthy white guys. 

Sadly that is what so many people focus on.  For me it's that she wanted these machines that did not work the way she was saying they did to be used in wellness centers.  There was going to be real life consequences from that and Elizabeth did not seem to care at all. 

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

she will not get any sympathy from the judge about leaving a child that was conceived after she was indicted

She doesn't deserve any sympathy.  She chose to have a child while under indictment with the threat of jail time hanging over her head.

2 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

She'll go to prison, not for as long as others who are not in her privileged position, but she will be incarcerated unless her wealthy investors intercede with the judge.  I don't think that will happen. 

It seems rich people only go to jail when they rip off other rich people.  See Bernie Madoff and Pharma Bro.

[40Love]

7 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

But Elizabeth scammed a bunch of powerful, wealthy white guys.  If they want her to serve time, and I think they do; she will not get any sympathy from the judge about leaving a child that was conceived after she was indicted.  She'll go to prison, not for as long as others who are not in her privileged position, but she will be incarcerated unless her wealthy investors intercede with the judge.  I don't think that will happen. 

Hope you're right. She needs to pay some kind or price! 

[Johnny Dollar]

Her sentencing is being delayed until after Sunny’s trial. I hope the government doesn’t bargain with her for a lower prison term in exchange for testifying against Sunny. They’re both equally complicit in this and should both face the same punishment. 

[Rootbeer]

12 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Her sentencing is being delayed until after Sunny’s trial. I hope the government doesn’t bargain with her for a lower prison term in exchange for testifying against Sunny. They’re both equally complicit in this and should both face the same punishment. 

If nothing else, she was the public face of Theranos, a company founded by her long before Sunny started working there.  I think she's the big fish in this and I would be surprised if she is even given the opportunity to turn against Sunny in court.

[Showthyme]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:19 PM, Cinnabon said:

As someone who worked in a Silicon Valley startup back in the day, I find it interesting and also mind boggling that she appealed to and fooled so many men. First, I don’t think she’s particularly beautiful or brilliant, and second, Silicon Valley was/is a pretty misogynistic place. Yet somehow she managed to stretch out this farce for many years.

 

Greed. The concept would have made them billionaires if it had worked. 

Ego. I am attached in some way to the woman who changed the world.

Notice that she wasn't able to sell her persona and shit to women. 

[ShellsandCheese]

8 hours ago, Showthyme said:

Greed. The concept would have made them billionaires if it had worked. 

Ego. I am attached in some way to the woman who changed the world.

Notice that she wasn't able to sell her persona and shit to women. 

Men are dumb. And for most men (even non-white ones) being thin, blonde (even if it’s not real) and having blue eyes is like the pinnacle of beauty regardless of the actual package aka looks of said blonde haired blue eyed thin woman. So I’m not surprised a bunch of old white dudes fell for her bullshit. 

[wanderingstar]

This episode solidified for me that Alan Ruck is a national treasure.

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

This episode solidified for me that Alan Ruck is a national treasure.

IKR?  Whenever he's on I think of Cameron of Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

[Johnny Dollar]

The character that Alan Ruck is playing approached this multi-million dollar project exactly the way Connor Roy would approach it. Trusting his instincts with completely predictable results. 

[Irlandesa]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:49 PM, AntFTW said:

I think she would have made an AMAZING Elizabeth Holmes.

I like Kate McKinnon but I think she has a tendency towards letting the skit performer tics leak into non-skit performances.   I think the tone would have been different. 

On 3/14/2022 at 10:19 PM, Cinnabon said:

As someone who worked in a Silicon Valley startup back in the day, I find it interesting and also mind boggling that she appealed to and fooled so many men. First, I don’t think she’s particularly beautiful or brilliant, and second, Silicon Valley was/is a pretty misogynistic place. Yet somehow she managed to stretch out this farce for many years.

It is but they're always looking for the exception.   For some reason, thin and blonde and youthful (she's in her 20s here) are attractive qualities to many men even if they wouldn't be model pretty. Although I do think Elizabeth is average person attractive. 

But that's also why things we think make her look silly--like her voice change--worked.  She probably thought it made her less feminine and more serious. And I'm guessing to these guys, it did.

[marybennet]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

On 3/14/2022 at 10:19 PM, Cinnabon said:

As someone who worked in a Silicon Valley startup back in the day, I find it interesting and also mind boggling that she appealed to and fooled so many men. First, I don’t think she’s particularly beautiful or brilliant, and second, Silicon Valley was/is a pretty misogynistic place. Yet somehow she managed to stretch out this farce for many years.

It is but they're always looking for the exception.   For some reason, thin and blonde and youthful (she's in her 20s here) are attractive qualities to many men even if they wouldn't be model pretty. Although I do think Elizabeth is average person attractive. 

But that's also why things we think make her look silly--like her voice change--worked.  She probably thought it made her less feminine and more serious. And I'm guessing to these guys, it did.

Yes to all of this, and I think, too, that the old white men in the episode and possibly in life weren't thinking about her exactly in terms of sex.  It's more that her thin blondeness and her blue eyes were part of what made her incredible flattery of them successful, and that last scene of her attention to Waterston-Schultz was all about that.  She seemed to take them seriously.  And she was also (for them, I think) a marvel:  the blonde blue-eyed woman who seemed smart was a wonder, and it was testimony to their discernment (in their minds and in their preening self-regard) that they recognized that.

[SlovakPrincess]

Holmes attracting all the old white men had several layers to it, it seems.  The youth, big blue eyes and blonde hair made her attractive enough to meet certain stereotypical standards of attractiveness, though it also had a lot to do with: (a) her flattering them and making certain of them feel like she looked up to them as a mentor; (b) they saw - or wanted to see - something of their own young, ambitious selves in her, which she manipulated; and (c) her looks made it easy for them to envision the successful marketing to sell Theranos and make themselves even richer ... young, giant-eyed, intense blonde lady who claims to be a brilliant genius ... which of course is exactly how Theranos was sold.

[Violetgoblin6]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:48 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

didn't know Alan Ruck (as Jay Rosen) over-identifying with Katy Perry's most cringe-worthy popular song was what I needed in my life, but here we are. 

Oh, Wade, you were so close to getting it right!  I laughed out loud at Jay's "this guy is fucking relentless" as Kevin chased down the car, trying desperately to stop Jay from talking Wade into this mistake.  

Best part!!! 🤣 me too.

[Violetgoblin6]

 

On 3/14/2022 at 12:28 PM, Jordan Baker said:

Amanda Seyfried (whom I associate most with Mean Girls) and Naveen Andrews (whom I've never seen before) are wonderful in their roles. I really felt for Sunny when he was being treated so poorly by the TSA staff, but my sympathy has since flown out the window.

Love her. Local girl, Emmaus Pennsylvania. One celebrity I could see myself being friends with, huge animal lover. 

 

I remember Naveen as Diana's Pakistani doctor boyfriend from the Naomi Watts Diana movie. I love him, so excellent in both roles. 

 

This was my favorite episode. The Walgreen guys were great! Love Alan...when Cameron was in Egypt land...let my Cameron go..." haha. The CFO too, very realistic to me, and is the Florida scientist the Wall Street friend from The Devil Wears Prada? 

[lovinbob]

On 3/31/2022 at 2:03 PM, Violetgoblin6 said:

This was my favorite episode. The Walgreen guys were great! Love Alan...when Cameron was in Egypt land...let my Cameron go..." haha. The CFO too, very realistic to me, and is the Florida scientist the Wall Street friend from The Devil Wears Prada? 

Yes he is! Rich Sommer. Dude is in everything. Mad Men, King Richard, GLOW, Wet Hot American Summer sequel. He was even on The Office for a hot minute.

[Lovecat]

Kevin is a goddamn hero with his dogged insistence on seeing the labs--"WE'VE GOT TO SEE THE LAAAAABSSSS!!!" as he pounded on the town car window made me stand up and cheer.  I am a "Kevin" type and have actually audited aspects of Walgreens's and CVS's businesses on behalf of my own clients, so this episode was ::chef's kiss:: in my book.  I have indeed had audit hosts escort me to the bathroom on many occasions, and in one particular instance, one came in with me (not in the stall, she was waiting by the sinks, but still).   

Anyone else snortlaugh when Naveen Andrews' "Sunny" said to Kevin "We wouldn't want you to get...lost..." in that menacing tone?  I don't know whether that was a deliberate LOST reference, but it still made me giggle.

I've been fascinated by this story for a couple years, and am loving the series.  I also always root for Amanda Seyfried, a fellow Lehigh Valley native. 

[aghst]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:58 PM, bluegirl147 said:

Whenever I've had bloodwork, even for just one test, they have taken a vial of blood. If they are running multiple tests they take more than one vial. How anyone thought one drop would be enough to run the number of tests she was promising is beyond me.  And someone with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there some blood tests that need done by adding something to the blood or the blood has to be spun or something?

On 3/11/2022 at 10:00 PM, chocolatine said:

You are correct. I think Elizabeth and Sunny made a huge mistake siloing and alienating their R&D team. If they had allowed an open exchange of ideas, all of those brilliant minds working together may have been able to make a device that works, with some tradeoffs in terms of size and speed. But the two of them were more concerned about keeping up the charade to their board and prospective clients than about fixing the real problems.

That’s what a lot of the reporting said, that it could never work, that existing blood analyzers needed a lot of blood and no company bothered trying to do it with a drop of blood.

Even if they made it work, what would the benefits be?  Would stores not require people trained to draw blood?  Would it have cost less or would they price it the same but take bigger profit margins?

Maybe the conclusion that it would never work is Monday morning quarterbacking but it seems so obvious.

Yet all tHese scientificallY trained people didn’t immediately dismiss the concept right away.  People like Channing, Ian, Kevin and others thought it could be possible, was open to it.

 

[smartymarty]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:36 PM, loki310 said:

I love how this show captures the “all you need is a good idea + tech and vast riches await” zeitgeist of the era. Every other day you were hearing about “disrupters” selling companies for hundreds of millions of dollars. People snapping up domain names. Everyone was worried about getting left behind and Holmes really preyed in those fears.

It followed the internet boom (and bust) where people believed if all they did was put a company on the internet, in a year they could cash out their stock as millionaires. Whenever I'd meet someone bragging about this ("In a year I'll be rich") I'd ask them what was the company? You had to have an actual product that sells!! I think a lot of people regret quiting their jobs to chase the get-rich-quick-internet dream. (And then the housing boom and then the tech boom.)

[Kel Varnsen]

Wow Doctor J was basically Michael Scott if he had a medical degree. Annoying jokes and nicknames, overly friendly (wants to be liked), weirdly into celebrities and kind of dumb. I kept waiting for him to drop a "that's what she said".

On 3/10/2022 at 11:43 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

Yeah, Channing is one of the folks who comes off looking really bad in this.  He has enough scientific knowledge that he should believe Ian when Ian comes to him with serious concerns, but he seems to care more about the business side at this point!

He is the one I really don't get since he was there from the beginning when Elizabeth was a 19 year old undergrad with no experience, definitely no investors or money and a maybe decent idea. But he was an engineering professor at Stanford who just have seen that exact same thing 100's of times before.

On 3/10/2022 at 10:49 PM, AntFTW said:

WE’RE FUCKING WALGREENS AND WE’RE WALKING! 😂🤣😂

I wouldn’t have sat there to sign another NDA. They would’ve had to mail it to me, wait for me to sign it, and come pick it up from the other side of the country if they really wanted it.

Would they have to sign it at all? An NDA is a contract right? Which means you do something for something. What are the Walgreens guys getting in exchange for signing if the deal is off?

Edited April 11 by Kel Varnsen

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Would they have to sign it at all? An NDA is a contract right? Which means you do something for something. What are the Walgreens guys getting in exchange for signing if the deal is off?

They get information. The Walgreens execs get information and Theranos gets non-disclosure.

[Kel Varnsen]

7 hours ago, AntFTW said:

They get information. The Walgreens execs get information and Theranos gets non-disclosure.

If they signed it at the beginning of the meeting sure. But Sunny made them sign another one at the end of the meeting after the deal was off. It's not like they were getting any more information at that point. And what would happen if they had said no?

Edited April 10 by Kel Varnsen