S04.E05: How to Chew Quietly and Influence People

[Aulty]

Quote

Susie hones her managerial style. Rose’s professional skills land her an incredible opportunity. Midge and Susie take advantage of some high society perks.

Original Air Date March 4th, 2022

[Aulty]

I quite enjoy the routines at the jiggle joint - were those really that creative back then?
Those performances, plus Shy singing, as much as I enjoyed them, went on a bit to long I thought.

As someone who has shared an office with a loud chewer, I appreciated the tip Susie got for hiring an assistant 😄

Edited March 4, 2022 by Aulty

[greekmom]

Even though Shy screwed Midge over I felt bad for the beautiful bride of his.  She going to be in for a world of hurt.

Midge is stupid. She should have taken the 12K and asked for some sort of comic job as well.

[bybrandy]

Yup, I get being principled but principles aren't paying the milk man.   

[MerBearHou]

Good Lord, Mei is annoying IMO.  She exhausts me.

Also nice to see Rachel’s real life husband on the show — he is mighty handsome.  He was great in his small role on “Madam Secretary”.

I love that Amy S-P uses so many of her Gilmore Girls cast on MMM — nice to see Max Medina.  That horse farm was just gorgeous.  

I’m very, very glad Midge apologized to Shy.  

Edited March 5, 2022 by MerBearHou

[Steph Sometimes]

I know it's just a show, but man, I hated watching Midge and Susie act like that at the wedding. Throwing around all the flowers and food... it's not Shy who's going to be dealing with that mess.

[CinAZ]

It was nice to see closure on the Shy Baldwin drama.  
He will be living a very sad life.

Good for Susie getting a secretary! 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, greekmom said:

Even though Shy screwed Midge over I felt bad for the beautiful bride of his.  She going to be in for a world of hurt.

Nah. She's got a house in California (likely mortgage-free).
Or were you thinking there was a marriage contract in which she gets zip if there's ever a divorce for any reason?

[greekmom]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Nah. She's got a house in California (likely mortgage-free).
Or were you thinking there was a marriage contract in which she gets zip if there's ever a divorce for any reason?

Nah. More like she is going to want kids, a loving husband, the package. So she gets a house in Cali rent free. It's going to be empty.

Probably Shy won't be able to sleep with her unless he's drunk or high and it wont be regularly either. Even with his touring schedule.

Unless she knows the score and it's all for show.

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, greekmom said:

Midge is stupid. She should have taken the 12K and asked for some sort of comic job as well.

I agree, though she might have been more tempted if Susie had been honest about the money situation. Even though Midge knows it's tight, she doesn't know Joel is the one who supplied it. And if they'd phrased it as being compensation for the European tour she was fired from, she might have been able to justify it to herself.

11 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I know it's just a show, but man, I hated watching Midge and Susie act like that at the wedding. Throwing around all the flowers and food... it's not Shy who's going to be dealing with that mess.

That ticked me off too. It was childish and inappropriate, whatever your feelings.

I was glad, however, that Midge finally apologized to Shy and showed true remorse. If she hadn't done that I'm not sure I would have kept watching the show. It was a good conversation that both was sincerely apologetic and also pointed out what she'd seen as her job. A grown up discussion, for once.

I was sad to see Shy isolated from his band, but most particularly Reggie. Now he's surrounded by people who only see him as a commodity they're protecting. I wonder if we'll see him again.

Susie's search for a secretary was fun, and I'm looking forward to meeting the character.

Jane Lynch was great - showing a different side of Sophie on the talk show. Speaking with humor and not a little self-deprecation, while off camera being her formerly entitled self. For once, I might actually be .... almost.... cheering for her.  I couldn't help but think of Jane's own struggles with alcoholism and how they informed this performance.

I was on Midge's side during the confrontation with her mother, even though I'm still not truly fond of her.  I might be more sympathetic if Rose hadn't turned down her family's money in a snit. Hmm...like mother like daughter.

Anyway, this episode was a step in the right direction.

Oh, one more thing. I'm no fashionista, and maybe it's petty, but it really bothered me that Midge's hat at the wedding reception did not match the rest of the outfit. I'm not really fond of hats, but mostly they've seemed to have had some connection to the overall look.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Clanstarling

[LadyRose]

11 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

love that Amy S-P uses so many of her Gilmore Girls cast on MMM — nice to see Max Medina.  That horse farm was just gorgeous.

I have mixed feelings about it. I remember how Bunheads very quickly started to turn into Gilmore Girls West, with GG actors in roles similar to their GG characters: Kelly Bishop, Liza Weil, and the guy who played Kirk.

MMM has avoided that for the most part so far.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by LadyRose
Remove spoilers for Ep 6!

[LadyRose]

22 hours ago, Aulty said:

I quite enjoy the routines at the jiggle joint - were those really that creative back then?

I'm no expert on burlesque or dance history...but I'm guessing they usually weren't, and the ones in the show are because ASP loves to direct dance numbers. She has a great choreographer and great dancers. I love the dance scenes and the singing, even though some fans say they slow the show down. They're just fun to watch!

[millennium]

Is it just me or does so much of the dialogue in this show sound like an old-time radio comedy program?   Look away from the screen sometime -- especially in any scene featuring Joel -- and you'll see what I mean. 

[gorgy]

• Max Medina still has that helmet of hair after all these years. Good for him
• I like everything about the show, but the main characters at this point. They are all so self-entitled. It's like Rory Gilmore: The College Years. I get that it's just a tv show, and I'm just along for the ride, but at some point the character flaws become hard to ignore. The whole pseudo-wedding crashing was just a plot contrivance to get to the bathroom scene so Midge can feel better about herself and that's fine, but is that the appropriate setting for that conversation? The answer is no. And all the bullshit with messing up the floral decor and knocking the tray of food over, (which would have caused a much bigger commotion, in real life, but whatevs) was just petty nonsense. It's all played for laughs, but it's hard to laugh along with characters you don't really like in the first place. That probably sounds harsher than I feel, in general, but this season, they are really getting on my nerves. Except for Rose - she's the worst.
• Wait, Rose might be the second worst. Does Mei have any redeeming qualities? Imagine being married to that nuisance for the rest of your life. She's meant to be quick-witted and funny, and she just comes off tiresome. 
• Ethan is in kindergaten? Ethan looks like he's about to get his driving permit.
• Now that they pretty much confirmed Suzie's sexuality last episode, I guess they'll just have her and Sophie in some sexless odd couple relationship for the rest of their days. It'll be platonic, because anything beyond that would be out of character, but that's that. 
• I assumed it would eventually be revealed that Reggie made the call to get rid of Midge, and it would turn out Shy had nothing to do with it, to make him seem like a helpless good guy, but it's actually much sadder. Now he has no one in his life he cares about, and this Midge comes to his sham wedding to tell him they aren't even friends. Rough night

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, gorgy said:

The whole pseudo-wedding crashing was just a plot contrivance to get to the bathroom scene so Midge can feel better about herself and that's fine, but is that the appropriate setting for that conversation? The answer is no.

It was a throwback to their first meeting in the Ladies room in  season 2 episode 9 "Vote for Kennedy, Vote for Kennedy."
But it aired back in December of 2018, so I think it was just a vague memory to those of us who recalled it at all, which is too bad, because:

Quote

[MIDGE] I'm off to the ladies'. 
[SEES SHY IN THE LADIES ROOM] I'll just vomit right here. I'm sorry. I have to introduce myself, because I am your biggest fan. Actually, my mother is your biggest fan. She even listens to your Christmas album. But, oh, my God, Shy Baldwin, you are phenomenal. You are amazing. You are terrified by the crazy woman next to you. Am I in the wrong place? 
[SHY]I don't know. Where are you supposed to be? 
[MIDGE]Ladies' room. 
[SHY]You're in the right place. I'm in the wrong place. You guys have the bigger mirrors. Always smells better, too. 
...
[MIDGE]My mother does think the world of you. 
[SHY]Oh, mothers do love me. 
[MIDGE]I'm a mother, too. 
[SHY]Really? 
[MIDGE]Mm-hmm. 
[SHY]You'd never know. And how are you involved in all this, honey 
[MIDGE]I'm a comedian. 
[SHY]Oh, yeah? 
[MIDGE]Mm-hmm. 
[SHY]Oh, I love comedians. Always open my show with a comedian. Had Moms Mabley at the Apollo. Audience fell out of their seats. 
[MIDGE]Moms Mabley. Mental note. 
[SHY]She's the real thing. Sees the world, tells the truth. Nothing like that buzz saw out there. 
[MIDGE]What buzz saw? Sophie? 
[SHY]Can't stand that cracker comedy of hers. She was telling the same jokes when I was singing in the subway. And they weren't fresh then. I bumped into her in Paris. I swear, a dozen diamonds fell out of her ass. Your race can have her. She a friend of yours? Should've asked that first. 
[MIDGE]Not by a long shot. 
[SHY]What's your name? 
[MIDGE]Midge. Midge Maisel. 
[SHY]You break a leg tonight, Midge. And thanks for the spritz. A little summertime in the fall. 
[MIDGE]Thank you for the music. Wow, that sounded dumb. 
[SHY]Not when you say it, sugar.

 

 

3 hours ago, gorgy said:

I assumed it would eventually be revealed that Reggie made the call to get rid of Midge, and it would turn out Shy had nothing to do with it, to make him seem like a helpless good guy, but it's actually much sadder. Now he has no one in his life he cares about, and this Midge comes to his sham wedding to tell him they aren't even friends. Rough night

😥😭

[Clanstarling]

39 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

It was a throwback to their first meeting in the Ladies room in  season 2 episode 9 "Vote for Kennedy, Vote for Kennedy."
But it aired back in December of 2018, so I think it was just a vague memory to those of us who recalled it at all, which is too bad, because:

 

 

😥😭

I remembered it (but then again, we rewatched the series in anticipation of the new season). I thought it was a perfect bookend for her relationship with Shy.

[wonderwoman]

alison stine at salon has some thoughts about the show in general, and midge and sty in particular:

midge’s non-apology

in earlier posts, she discusses susie and joel.

Edited March 6, 2022 by wonderwoman

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, wonderwoman said:

alison stine at salon has some thoughts about the show in general, and midge and sty in particular:

midge’s non-apology

in earlier posts, she discusses susie and joel.

I haven't read the Salon article yet, but skimming, this popped out and reminded me of my own different-than-others' take on:

• "For a show, especially a long-running one, especially one just renewed for a final season, to continue to gather momentum and not become stagnant, there has to be movement. The characters have to go on a journey — and not just to get famous and richer. Midge has to change along the way, hopefully into someone better.
  "She hasn't yet." 

I am more of the "a leopard doesn't change its spots" opinion of people. I do think people can get wiser, but ultimately, we really (IMO) just become more of who we are.
So I'm okay with Midge staying her same old spoiled, thoughtless self while she continues on her journey through life. 
Beaver Cleaver and Dennis the Menace didn't change, and I think it's a bit idealistic to expect Midge to change. </end-unpopular-opinion>

 

10 hours ago, millennium said:

Is it just me or does so much of the dialogue in this show sound like an old-time radio comedy program?   Look away from the screen sometime -- especially in any scene featuring Joel -- and you'll see what I mean. 

You're not wrong about the dialogue sounding like it's from another era, but isn't that a good thing in this case?

[millennium]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

You're not wrong about the dialogue sounding like it's from another era, but isn't that a good thing in this case?

I don't know.  It's clear what they're striving for, but since that's not what our ears are accustomed to, the dialogue comes off sounding deliberately artificial and in search of a laugh track (at least to me).   If I had the closed captions on, I suspect it would read "(witty repartee)."  It's most obvious with Joel and Abe.   Maybe because I can't stand Joel or Abe. 

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

It's clear what they're striving for, but since that's not what our ears are accustomed to, the dialogue comes off sounding deliberately artificial and in search of a laugh track (at least to me).  

That's Amy Sherman Palladino's style, which is distinctive. She's drawing from the old screwball comedies of the 1930s and 1940s. 

[millennium]

14 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

That's Amy Sherman Palladino's style, which is distinctive. She's drawing from the old screwball comedies of the 1930s and 1940s. 

It comes off as pastiche.   Someone should tell her.

[chessiegal]

I like ASP's fast-paced dialogue. You could really tell on the last season of GG that she was not at the helm. GG lost something without it. I find I have to remind myself to buckle up and get ready for it when I'm watching.

[shapeshifter]

I watched a few episodes of GG because my youngest daughter and her best friends were rabid fans.
The dialog was the only thing I liked. 
It's not for everyone, though.

[wonderwoman]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

haven't read the Salon article yet, but skimming, this popped out and reminded me of my own different-than-others' take on:

• "For a show, especially a long-running one, especially one just renewed for a final season, to continue to gather momentum and not become stagnant, there has to be movement. The characters have to go on a journey — and not just to get famous and richer. Midge has to change along the way, hopefully into someone better.
  "She hasn't yet." 

I am more of the "a leopard doesn't change its spots" opinion of people. I do think people can get wiser, but ultimately, we really (IMO) just become more of who we are.
So I'm okay with Midge staying her same old spoiled, thoughtless self while she continues on her journey through life. 
Beaver Cleaver and Dennis the Menace didn't change, and I think it's a bit idealistic to expect Midge to change. </end-unpopular-opinion>

leave it to beaver and dennis the menace were sitcoms about children. the only growing those characters did was to get older and taller — and that’s all viewers expected of those shows. 

but, serial dramas are different. one aspect of soap opera (and this show embodies at lot of soaps)) is that characters do grow and and learn — and suffer the consequences of their actions (at least they did in the early days of soaps). 

as you noted, people can get wiser, i would argue while still retaining their basic personality. so yes, midge is self-centered, and likely always will be, but that doesn’t mean that she can’t learn from her mistakes. and it doesn’t help that there are never any real and lasting consequences stemming from her childish — and sometime downright mean — behavior. 

[DrSpaceman73]

https://www.salon.com/2022/03/06/marvelous-mrs-maisel-midge-apology/

 

Pretty good article about things most of us agree about.  I don't agree with all of it but most of it. 

I think the writer misses the point though about why she turns down meeting up with Shy again.   

[spiritof76]

17 hours ago, wonderwoman said:

alison stine at salon has some thoughts about the show in general, and midge and sty in particular:

midge’s non-apology

in earlier posts, she discusses susie and joel.

This article said everything i was thinking. I was waiting for this apology. Hoping against hope we'd get one. And what we got.....left a lot to be desired. Midge still does not seem to comprehend how much danger she could have put Shy in. Forget his career, we're talking about his life.

Sammy Davis Jr was threatened with a mob hit because it was rumored he was dating actress Kim Novak (a white woman). Guess what? Not too much later he married a black woman. That marriage barely made it a year. Now imagine being black and gay in that time period.

Midge's apology was still full of entitlement ("if you would have just let me on the plane, then I could have apologized"). And she also had to get in there how her act "killed" and she "did her job". And then to turn it around on Shy, and accuse him of not really being her friend? She just doesn't get it. 

Honestly, the show could have kept that apology. 

I don't need the leads of shows to be likeable. I mean, I stuck with Don Draper until the end. But the show knew he wasn't a great person. They weren't trying to convince the viewers he was. That's all I ask. Let Midge be Midge. And who she is, is entitled and privileged, with not a lot of self awareness. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, spiritof76 said:

I don't need the leads of shows to be likeable. I mean, I stuck with Don Draper until the end. But the show knew he wasn't a great person. They weren't trying to convince the viewers he was. That's all I ask. Let Midge be Midge. And who she is, is entitled and privileged, with not a lot of self awareness. 

This, so much.

[kwnyc]

Man, Shy is in prison now. Getting rid of Midge was just part of a bigger plan to isolate him from everyone who knew him and knew things about him. NDAs and all. I feel bad for Reggie, who had made Shy his LIFE. Whether the marriage is one where the bride is truly clueless, or if it is a lavender marriage, Shy is stuck in it. He gets a wedding with Princess Grace and Jimmy Stewart and Harry Belafonte, but it's all a giant show.

The back room of the wedding, where the handlers congregated, was creepy and evil. Since it's been mentioned that Shy is "owned" by a mobster, they seem to want to both protect their investment and get more out of it. (Shy's going to be in a movie!)

And I did buy MIdge's apology. I thought it was heartfelt, and she understood what she did wrong, and she wanted to make it better.

The last glimpse of Shy, alone, smoking a cigarette in the shadows was so sad...and Midge knew there was nothing she could do for him.

And maybe Susie WANTED Midge to take the 12K, but it would have put Midge in debt to whatever group "owns" shy. Susie will probably have her own problems with the the people she's promised a "taste" to, so even though they can use the money, I bet it will turn out to be a smart decision. Obviously, the burlesque club is mobbed up, too, and that's something they have to consider.

I like Mei a lot. An Asian woman in 1960 who's in medical school AND helping run her family's business is making a HUGE effort just to exist. (You can also see that Joel has a type: very smart women who push back. And with Mei, the fact that she wants to be a doctor is not a direct threat to him, like Midge being a comic.)

 

[tennisgurl]

Midge and Suzie at the wedding was so cringy, what a couple of assholes. Yes, you have had your petty revenge on the catering staff and clean up crew, the people who will actually have to clean all that crap up. You could really see the Sherman-Palladino showing in that scene, I could totally see the Lorelei and Rory (especially in the 2016 reboot) doing something like that. Entitlement wrapped under a ribbon of supposed cuteness. 

I was really looking forward to Midge and Shy finally talking, but I was disappointed. Midge still seems to have no real clue what she really did and her whole apology was more of a "sorry your mad" than being actually sorry. What a messy sad situation. I think the only really sincere moment that I really liked was when Midge saw Shy standing alone outside smoking and she really did look sad, it really got me. 

Really nice to see Jason Ralph, looking very sharp in period clothes. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by tennisgurl

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Really nice to see Jason Ralph, looking very sharp in period clothes. 

If Jason Ralph (RB's real life spouse) had been cast as Joel, the Midge-Joel story would have an entirely different feel. The Palladinos would almost have to make them end game.

[mostlylurking]

This was probably my favorite episode so far (except for the Susie funeral scene). A little of the secondary characters is ok but I like the focus to be on Midge and Susie. I am in the camp that feels Midge did not out Shy at the Apollo. I don’t feel in that era people put things together like we do now, and I also don’t feel that crowd would be laughing so uproariously if they felt she was actually saying Shy was a homosexual. Either way, I understand it Could Have gone that way, it was too close to home and she had to be let go, but I still liked her bathroom apology. 

From her expressions and the way Shy said he bought “her” a house (not both of them), I get the feeling Mrs. Shy knows what’s up. It’s still going to be a sad life for them both. 

Rose had on the coolest outfit when she went to visit the horse farm.  Mei’s dress was way too tight in the bust. The dresses and crazy hats continue to be amazing.

I give the actors a lot of credit for remembering all that dialogue and the rapid fire delivery!  My ears can  barely hear it all I could never say it all. 

This is probably the first episode I’ve liked Jane Lynch. This version of Sophie can stay. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by mostlylurking

[Blakeston]

Ned Eisenberg, who played Lou (the skinny bald guy who explained things to Midge in the back room at Shy's wedding), sadly passed away a little over a week ago.

Re: what happened in that back room, I don't think there would have been anything wrong with Midge signing the non-disclosure agreement and accepting the money.

If someone had offered her money to betray Shy's confidence, then sure, that would be super-unethical. If she had demanded money in exchange for her silence, that wouldn't have been great either.

But accepting money to keep a secret she was going to keep anyway? I don't see the problem there. Shy's handlers don't know her, so of course they're not going to trust her to keep a secret of that magnitude. She has no reason to be personally offended.

The only ethical issue I could see is that the handlers are jerks for how they're isolating Shy. But accepting money from jerks is nothing new for Midge. She's collecting a paycheck from the mobbed up scuzzballs at the strip club!r

I liked the bit with Sophie on the talk show. But Sophie being seen as show business kryptonite makes no sense to me. On a series filled with implausible plotlines, one of the most implausible for me has to be that Sophie's career was ruined overnight by her Broadway performance.

I could buy that it was very embarrassing for her. I could buy that later, when word got out about her being in a mental hospital, it caused her career to suffer badly. But the idea that she'd be unable to book a gig anywhere in the country? Sorry, not buying that.

 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Blakeston said:

But Sophie being seen as show business kryptonite makes no sense to me. On a series filled with implausible plotlines, one of the most implausible for me has to be that Sophie's career was ruined overnight by her Broadway performance.

I could buy that it was very embarrassing for her. I could buy that later, when word got out about her being in a mental hospital, it caused her career to suffer badly. But the idea that she'd be unable to book a gig anywhere in the country? Sorry, not buying that.

Wasn't it more like Sophie had a nervous breakdown during her Broadway premier as a dramatic actor, and she just wasn't mentally able to perform for an extended time, rather than her being unable to get work because of her Broadway disaster?

[janie jones]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:21 PM, MerBearHou said:

Good Lord, Mei is annoying IMO.  She exhausts me.

I think I'd like Mei a lot more if she were played by a different actress. I don't think her delivery is very natural.

On 3/5/2022 at 8:30 AM, Clanstarling said:

I was on Midge's side during the confrontation with her mother, even though I'm still not truly fond of her.  I might be more sympathetic if Rose hadn't turned down her family's money in a snit. Hmm...like mother like daughter.

While I understand Rose's concern, I wish Midge had reminded her that her job at the club is keeping a roof over Rose and Abe's heads.

On 3/8/2022 at 10:14 AM, Blakeston said:

But accepting money to keep a secret she was going to keep anyway? I don't see the problem there. Shy's handlers don't know her, so of course they're not going to trust her to keep a secret of that magnitude. She has no reason to be personally offended.

I agree. You want to give me $12,000 for something I was going to do anyway for free? Sign me up. She had no reason to be indignant that some complete strangers couldn't be certain she wouldn't divulge a secret that plenty of other people wouldn't keep to themselves.

[mojito]

24 minutes ago, janie jones said:

While I understand Rose's concern, I wish Midge had reminded her that her job at the club is keeping a roof over Rose and Abe's heads.

I think Rose and Abe have convinced themselves that the opposite is true. 😏

I must not be remembering the Shy-Midge falling out very well. I thought Reggie told her to talk about Shy to the audience and she assumed that Shy's homosexuality was not a secret and she started making jokes about it. Would someone please explain what happened between them? Thanks.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, mojito said:

I think Rose and Abe have convinced themselves that the opposite is true. 😏

I must not be remembering the Shy-Midge falling out very well. I thought Reggie told her to talk about Shy to the audience and she assumed that Shy's homosexuality was not a secret and she started making jokes about it. Would someone please explain what happened between them? Thanks.

Yes.
And yes. But I think a lot of viewers were convinced Midge should have known better, which the Palladinos used Midge’s “apology”(?) to address. 

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, mojito said:

I thought Reggie told her to talk about Shy to the audience and she assumed that Shy's homosexuality was not a secret and she started making jokes about it. 

Part of the problem was that when Reggie told Midge to talk about Shy, Reggie did not know that Midge was aware that Shy was homosexual, and was not prepared for nor expecting the kind of jokes she would tell. 

[mojito]

Has Susie's key ever been explained, or is it just a kind of sight gag?

[Blakeston]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:27 PM, shapeshifter said:

Wasn't it more like Sophie had a nervous breakdown during her Broadway premier as a dramatic actor, and she just wasn't mentally able to perform for an extended time, rather than her being unable to get work because of her Broadway disaster?

This would make a lot more sense. But we were told that her career died overnight, and that there wasn't a single venue in the country would book her.

[Blakeston]

22 hours ago, mojito said:

I think Rose and Abe have convinced themselves that the opposite is true. 😏

I must not be remembering the Shy-Midge falling out very well. I thought Reggie told her to talk about Shy to the audience and she assumed that Shy's homosexuality was not a secret and she started making jokes about it. Would someone please explain what happened between them? Thanks.

My take was that Midge thought that the best material for jokes about Shy would be his fancy clothes, and his extravagance. But she didn't stop to think about how that kind of flamboyance is commonly associated with homosexuality. And she chose some poor phrasing ("he has a man for everything," and "Judy Garland shoes") without realizing it.

[Sarah 103]

12 hours ago, Blakeston said:

My take was that Midge thought that the best material for jokes about Shy would be his fancy clothes, and his extravagance. But she didn't stop to think about how that kind of flamboyance is commonly associated with homosexuality. And she chose some poor phrasing ("he has a man for everything," and "Judy Garland shoes") without realizing it.

YES! I totally agree with this and was trying to find a way to say something very similar to this. You did a far better job and in fewer words than I could have. 

[shapeshifter]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:27 PM, shapeshifter said:

Wasn't it more like Sophie had a nervous breakdown during her Broadway premier as a dramatic actor, and she just wasn't mentally able to perform for an extended time, rather than her being unable to get work because of her Broadway disaster?

20 hours ago, Blakeston said:

This would make a lot more sense. But we were told that her career died overnight, and that there wasn't a single venue in the country would book her.

At that time mental illness had a bigger stigma attached to it than now,¹ so both of the above would likely be true. That is, Sophie's breakdown was not described as such by writers who respected her as an icon of the times–—or at least were writing for readers who thought of Sophie as an icon.

__________________

1. Or, at least, it was more taboo to speak about mental illness in the late 50s-early 60s; I don't think the social stigma has changed much in reality, even though health insurance now covers therapy, etc.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by shapeshifter

[luvthepros]

On 3/4/2022 at 8:51 PM, greekmom said:

Even though Shy screwed Midge over I felt bad for the beautiful bride of his.  She going to be in for a world of hurt.

 

I have always assumed beards are very aware of their role in the marriage and that they are very much aware they are marrying a gay man. Well.........you know what they say about assuming so I may be totally wrong about that.

[maggiemae]

IIRC Shy's bride was getting a house in LA. I could be wrong.

[luvthepros]

1 hour ago, maggiemae said:

IIRC Shy's bride was getting a house in LA. I could be wrong.

You are correct.

[Clanstarling]

13 hours ago, luvthepros said:

I have always assumed beards are very aware of their role in the marriage and that they are very much aware they are marrying a gay man. Well.........you know what they say about assuming so I may be totally wrong about that.

I think like everything else, it varies. There have been plenty of non-celebrity marriages where the truth was discovered after years of being together, so I think that might also be true in some celebrity marriages. The bride looked pretty happy.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Clanstarling

[Dobian]

Susie continues to be the funniest person on the show. The job interviews were golden.

On 3/10/2022 at 3:47 PM, Sarah 103 said:

Part of the problem was that when Reggie told Midge to talk about Shy, Reggie did not know that Midge was aware that Shy was homosexual, and was not prepared for nor expecting the kind of jokes she would tell. 

I think Reggie did know.  He was jealous of Midge being so close to Shy and wanted to get rid of her.  He deliberately sabotaged her.  He then leaked the story that she was fired to the press before she arrived at the airport so she would be humiliated.

Glad they got closure on the Shy Baldwin arc.  Now they can move on to other things.

I thought Shy was based on Harry Belafonte, but since Harry shows up at Shy's wedding, I'm thinking Johnny Mathis, who is gay.  They even kind of look the same.

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Dobian

[Sarah 103]

1 minute ago, Dobian said:

I thought Shy was based on Harry Belafonte, but since Harry shows up at Shy's wedding, I'm thinking Johnny Mathis, who is gay.  They even kind of look the same.

In terms of sound, the Pallidinos told the songwriters they wanted Shy Baldwin to sound like a blend of Johnny Mathis and Sam Cooke, so they may very well have had Johnny Mathis in mind as a basis for the overall character, not just his music. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

I thought Shy was based on Harry Belafonte, but since Harry shows up at Shy's wedding, I'm thinking Johnny Mathis, who is gay.  They even kind of look the same.

"Chances Are...." [intended pun].
https://youtu.be/NEH3uqbpsm8

 

[chessiegal]

I immediately thought Johnny Mathis as the basis for Shy when I saw him.