S01.E07: Irresistible Change

[nb360]

This episode needed more of Miss Scott.

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Was that the last episode of season one? Hope not. I’m surprised Agnes did not fire Bannister, she’s really mad at him. And she got Turner fired but I doubt we’ve seen the last of her unfortunately. 

My guess is that the reason Turner was fired and Bannister was not was because the writers were trying (unsuccessfully) to show what a big step it is to fire "good" (capable) help and what a big ask (demand) it was of Agnes to have Bertha fire Turner.

They could also have been trying (unsuccessfully) to show that what Bannister did was stupid, but not fireable.  Doing a side job at someone else's house was a thing that was done.  Bannister's mistake was in not being above board about it.  However, Agnes knows he is a good butler and doesn't want to lose his service, even though she is refusing to talk to him.

Turner, on the other hand, should have been fired.  I mean, yes, she should have been fired when she crawled naked into bed with her employer's husband, but beyond that, she wasn't a very good servant.  She didn't get along with her co-workers and was anything but supportive to her employer.

But I agree...I doubt this is the last we'll see of her.

I did realize what was bugging me about this show.  There is a certain style of acting that most in the "upstairs" cast employs (except Ada--and Foghorn Leghorn, which is a whole other issues) which is very stilted.  The thing is, there are some great actors there and I know that they are capable of performing the same lines far better than they are here.  The only one who is pulling it off is Christine Baranski and it almost seems like she is having fun with it.  I can only assume that the actors are directed to act like this, but I cannot understand why.

[Cheezwiz]

 I found Louisa Jacobson's acting especially painful this episode - she's just so bland and one-note.

I did get a kick out of Aunt Ada and how much more worldly she is than people realize - Agnes's reactions were funny. This is such a nice-change-up for Cynthia Nixon. She annoyed me to no end in the SATC re-boot, but I just love her in this! Dammit, I wish I had an Aunt Ada!

I also really loved the ending - it was beautifully done, and captured how thrilling technology that we take for granted today must have been back then. The picnics looked really fun. Dammit, I wish I could go on a carriage picnic!

[hoodooznoodooz]

Whoa. Mrs. Russell sat in and stood up from a dining room chair all by herself.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Add her to the list of people who see that Raikes is not worth Marian sacrificing anything for. He says he loves her, but honestly would be find in two minutes if she fell off a cliff.

Much like the majority of the audience, I assume.

[Roseanna]

35 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Also, did I misunderstand or was Raikes arguing that they should marry now before something ... distracted them?  I couldn't follow his words but it didn't sound like he was saying they'd be torn apart but rather than they'd drift apart. If so, it was an odd but surprisingly selfware statement if the final scene with the other woman are any indication... but not a great argument for commitment...

Yes, Raikes' words were odd. But it's not clear if he mean himself or Marian. Even in the latter case, it was no argument for marry in haste. On the contrary, in order to be sure it's better to meet other possible partners. 

As for the other woman in the carriage - it could mean ordinary politeness or more. 

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I do kind of like the idea that Raikes will be unmasked not as a schemer, but as a shallow toddler who doesn't have the endurance to handle anything. When he was telling Marian all the gossip on those people and Marian was looking at him I was surprised when it turned out she was thinking how it wasn't fair Mrs. Chamberlain wasn't forgiven like those people. I thought she was recognizing how thirsty this guy was about gossip right before he claimed they could just chuck it all. 

I agree that although he first claimed to have gotten an access to the society in order to become accepted by Marian's aunts, he now seems to enjoy himself too much.

Yet, are these shallow people really such that a man of a good character would want to socialize with? On the other hand, the same concerns Fellowes, too.     

[marybennet]

3 hours ago, eejm said:

What was up with Aurora Fane’s pained look when Raikes was chatting up the woman beside him?

Call me a wicked speculator, but I wondered that, too, and my secret theory is that Aurora Fane's pained look was not for Marion but for herself.  I suspect that she and Raikes are carrying on (or at least carrying on a flirtation). 

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, ajsnaves said:

Speaking of Mrs. Chamberlain, while I assume her motives are pure, she needs to think about her actions in setting up a rendezvous between Marion and Tom.  Of the three of them, the only person who would be damaged if found out, would be Marion. Tom will just move on and up in Society, as he has been doing.  No one cares what a man does.  Mrs. Chamberlain will keep on keeping on, with nowhere lower to go.  But Marian's reputation will be doubly besmirched. 

Yes, but one can understand Marian - she is simply bored. Agnes whose duty would be to introduce her to eligible men hasn't done it. Now she refused to allow her to go see how electricity was lit. 

Both Raikes and Peggy had gone there, the evening with her aunts is dull, Agnes is drowsing and  Marian looks between the curtains at the empty street. There is clear symbolism!

In the pilot Ada looked between the curtains at Russell's house. Agnes' house is cramped and dark, Russell's house is spacious and full or air.

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Why does Mrs. Chamberlain always wear that horrible, fussy, dishwater coloured dress?

She is a widow, so bright colors are out. Maybe it also tells that she isn't interested in clothes as she is in art?

 

7 hours ago, dmc said:

Oscar is woefully miscast...because honestly he doesn't have the charm or looks for me to believe anyone would be into him or machinations. 

That.

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Add her to the list of people who see that Raikes is not worth Marian sacrificing anything for.

What would Marian be sacrificing? She has no money nor a job to earn a living and that shallow society isn't worth anything. And Agnes said to Ada that she would abandon Marian. 

I don't mean that Marian should marry Raikes. The whole plot is trivial.

But almost all in this show is trivial. I guess we are supposed be anxious whether Mr Russell will go to jail. I think that that letter (save money and not to care of safety) is according his character as well as that of Robber Barons generally. But because we have never seen the worker (nor the dead bodies of the crash in the earlier episode), Fellowes have robbed us a chance to see the affair objectively. Instead, while Mr Russell is shown to be a ruthless businessman, he has given a saving grace: he is clever and charming and loves his wife and children. 

[Roseanna]

4 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I did get a kick out of Aunt Ada and how much more worldly she is than people realize 

Ada also accepted the double morality of the age ("sowing wild oats" - bah!), not caring what would become women and their possible children.

Marian was really naive regarding a relationship between Oscar and Turner as a sign "democracy" - he couldn't marry her but only use her (the latter of course if the relationship were real and Turner were a woman of decent sort). 

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

 Turner is a nut. When she announced how SHE would have loved George and nothing else I expected him to point out that no, obviously she would not, since she's clearly incapable of loving anything. She'd be ten times worse than his wife. But I guess he'll eventually fall for it, not realizing he's having an affair with the same woman he's married to, basically. 

There has been two quarrels between George and Bertha because she has been insensitive, putting her social schemes above George's business success although the former is entirely dependent on the latter, not seeming to realize that the former can be postponed, the latter can't.  

Yet it's hard to believe that George could be so stupid that he would believe that there is any truth in Turners's words. He must know that the devotion she promises to give him would last as long he would pay for it.

For all her faults, Bertha is honest with her husband - her selfishness isn't pretty but at least she doesn't simulate anything. And she supported him when he he needed it most.  

[RachelKM]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:34 AM, Roseanna said:

What would Marian be sacrificing? She has no money nor a job to earn a living and that shallow society isn't worth anything. And Agnes said to Ada that she would abandon Marian. 

 

In short, her reputation. And that is all Marian has.  She doesn't have money.  Thus, the only thing that she has to recommend her is her connection to the Old Money crowd. But if she burns her reputation, that is done. If Raikes turned out not to be the one for her, she'd be tainted and all the old money relations in the world wouldn't make her marriable for anyone else interested in remaining in their society.

And, in fact, even if she and Raikes were a love for the ages, being caught having illicit assignations (i.e. meeting in secret as an unengaged couple) could be disastrous for Raikes as a social climber. If they got married, they wouldn't fall further.  But his marrying her after scandal would mean that they'd never climb higher and her connections would be moot. And even if he could otherwise climb on his own merits, their past affairs might keep them out of some circles.

Edited March 10, 2022 by RachelKM

[Roseanna]

23 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

In short, her reputation. And that is all Marian has.  She doesn't have money.  Thus, the only thing that she has to recommend her is her connections to the Old Money crowd. But if she burns her reputation, that is done. If Raikes turned out not to be the one for her, she'd be tainted and all the old money relations in the world wouldn't make her marriable for anyone else interested in remaining in their society.

And, in fact, even if she and Raikes were a love for the ages, being caught having illicit assignations (i.e. meeting in secret as an unengaged couple) could be disastrous for Raikes as a social climber. If they got married, they wouldn't fall further.  But his marrying her after scandal would mean that they'd never be cimb higher and her connections would be moot. And even if he could otherwise climb on his own merits, their past affairs might keep them out of some circles.

If that is so, why would we care for her? 

Or actually, if Marian lost her precious reputation, that would be a challenge and thus a good plot.

[Hiyo]

Quote

If that is so, why would we care for her? 

Other than maybe Peggy, why would we care for any of these people?

[RachelKM]

4 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

If that is so, why would we care for her? 

Or actually, if Marian lost her precious reputation, that would be a challenge and thus a good plot.

I doubt the writing will go the way of people finding out. But that is what Marian is risking.  And, as indicated in the post, Raikes hardly seems worth it, especially if she isn't even in love. She is willing to meet him in secret to find out if she could love him. Why? Other than she's a dipshit who takes pleasure in flouting rules and thinks she's immune to consequences. 

[Haleth]

While I thought Agnes was extra salty this episode I do enjoy the comedy of her not speaking to Bannister.  She'll eventually forgive him.  I can understand her not wanting to fire him.  Finding a new (English) butler would be so disruptive to the household.  Bannister erred but he does keep things running smoothly and that's what Agnes values most.  Also enjoyed Agnes being so shocked that Ada knows scandalous words.

Uh oh.  Raikes' head is turned by a pretty heiress.  Sorry, Marian, Aunt Agnes was right.  As usual.  But if Tom can woo a pretty heiress that isn't an emotionless robot like Marian, hey, more power to him.

Shoot, I forgot to look for Carrie Coons' pregnant belly.

I think Oscar is kind of a fun character, so over the top, but I hope his plan to woo Gladys fails.  Poor girl deserves better.  I'm thinking he's modeled in part after Henry Lehr (who married a Drexel).

I wish Turner would get off the screen.  She's been fired, her usefulness is done.  Still she gives it one more try with George.  Don't go there George, Turner is far worse than Bertha.  

There is a really fun, interesting novel called The Last Days of Night (Graham Moore) about the fight to bring electricity to America and the legal battle between Edison and George Westinghouse to do so.  It's from the pov of Westinghouse's young attorney.  I really recommend it.

[NeenerNeener]

And this show celebrates the beginning of light pollution and the obscuring of stars in the night sky.

Edited March 8, 2022 by NeenerNeener

[Pestilentia]

Quote

the show thinking the actor who plays Oscar is about ten times more charming than he really is.

IMO Oscar should have been quite the charismatic and compelling character had casting gone a different way. He's nearly as 'meh' as Marian and that's saying something. Of course they are setting up his pursuit of Gladys as the final straw that provokes a showdown between The Russells and the van Rhijns, but as it stands neither Oscar or Gladys have given me any reason to care what they get up to.

The older generation seems to have been much better cast than the younger- we have meh Marian, meh Raikes, meh Gladys, meh Oscar. At least Larry showed a tiny bit of gumption and he did it really well- he knew what buttons of George's to push in order to be heard.

Turner is not interesting, just mean. Agnes isn't interesting, she's just snobby. Ada is only now beginning to become interesting. Bertha is very one note as is George- IMO there are simply too many people around that are not interesting. The plot- is there one? Bertha schemes and George worries. Marian wanders around doing not much- where is it all going? Ah, yes. The Ball. The Big Ball where presumably shit is going to go down. Too little too late if you ask me.

This far along in the season I should care about at least one or two of these people but they are boring the pants off me. I'm disappointed in the show- it's  like a gorgeous present wrapped in the finest quality gift wrap and adorned with all the curly ribbons and bows imaginable only to be revealed as empty of anything substantial. The tiny speck of interest we feel with Peggy, Peggy's family, Mr. Fortune, and the newspaper business never gets enough time- we're teased enough to want more but never granted the satisfaction of getting it. 

This was episode 7 and it still feels unformed and lacking like a pilot where characters haven't found their footing yet. By now I should be into a groove and engaged with at least a few of our characters, not babbling about over why they are not interesting.

I'm proclaiming the show "meh."  It was a good idea that has been poorly executed in too many key areas to  let slide. Casting- poor, character development- poor, writing- poor. The only areas I am seeing done well are costuming and set design. It's a very pretty package that really doesn't contain very much other that people in pretty clothing sitting around inside gorgeous homes.

[quangtran]

10 hours ago, eejm said:

What was up with Aurora Fane’s pained look when Raikes was chatting up the woman beside him?

There was also the knowing look between the Fanes at the opera, after they heard Marion talk to Betha about Raikes not having any money, so the writers are 100% dropping hints that they know something more is going on.
 

7 hours ago, izabella said:

Mrs. Fane is one of my favorites.  I've been impressed with the actress from the start, and enjoy her character.  I give Aurora credit for diving right in to help Bertha break into society.

I like Aurora as well, but part of me thinks she's still somewhat angry at the Russell and just does a better job at hiding it than Anne Morris.

[AntFTW]

7 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

They could also have been trying (unsuccessfully) to show that what Bannister did was stupid, but not fireable.  Doing a side job at someone else's house was a thing that was done.  Bannister's mistake was in not being above board about it.

If Bannister was above board about it, Agnes would have never let it happen. Agnes wouldn’t lend her staff to “new people”, and certainly not to Bertha Russell.

Edited March 8, 2022 by AntFTW

[dmc]

8 hours ago, AntFTW said:

In the trailer for next week?

Thank you I missed the trailer. Is it on YouTube? 

1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

Other than maybe Peggy, why would we care for any of these people?

Yep agreed

[AntFTW]

Just now, dmc said:

Thank you I missed the trailer. Is it on YouTube? 

Yes

[MissLucas]

The scene between Larry and his father was very well written and acted - probably my favorite of this episode together with the last scene when the lights went on.

Despite her desperate and futile attempts to seduce George I find Turner an intriguing character. She has spotted the fault lines in the Russell marriage that nobody else has noticed - well, George seems to slowly recognize them too. I'm sure we'll see Turner again and I wonder how they are going to pull that off. Since they made such a big deal of her getting good recommendations she'll probably resurface as someone else's lady's maid. 

I wonder how Raikes managed to get access to all those supposedly exclusive circles. He does not have the right name nor money - does he have great lawyering skills? Or is his charming his way into all those luncheons and dinners another hint that he's a con man?

Still no idea what Marian wants or thinks. She had one good line when she wondered how some people's missteps get forgiven and others were kept being ostracized. Other than that she remained her boring self. 

Agnes being outraged by Ada's seedy knowledge was great. I also loved the scene at the dressmaker's, of course Agnes does not give into new-fangled fashion fads like smaller bustles!

Edited March 8, 2022 by MissLucas

[Trillian]

9 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I enjoyed it too and tried to imagine the wonder they felt. It reminded me of a documentary I saw a few years ago, where someone supplied a fairly isolated tribe in the Amazon with a generator and a few light bulbs, one per dwelling. No one on the tribe complained, they LOVED it. They explained how wonderful it was to be able to see after dark, to not sit in pitch blackness, or lit by some dim candle. It just made them feel safe and happy. It's so hard for us to fully appreciate what a gift electricity can be, but I thought they did a good job of it in this episode.

I’m very tired this morning - I read your post as saying that the lightbulbs were from Amazon.  Your story is much better. 

10 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Come on Gladys you have to be smarter then that. Your mother suddenly cares about you because she's been trying to get to Mrs Astor and you are friends with her daughter. 

If the Russells  are based on the Vanderbilts, as appears pretty likely, then Mrs Vanderbilt actually did use Carrie Astor to break into Society. Putting in spoilers because it looks like this is indeed where they’re heading:

Spoiler

The Vanderbilt’s housewarming ball: The story goes that like all young women of marrying age, Mrs. Astor’s daughter, Carrie, had been practicing a quadrille with her friends for weeks and was anxiously awaiting her invitation. When all of her friends got theirs and she still hadn’t, she asked her mother to find out why.

Alva claimed that since Mrs. Astor had never called on the Vanderbilt home on Fifth Avenue to introduce herself formally, she had no address to send an invitation to, so Mrs. Astor begrudgingly dropped in on Petit Chateau and left her visiting card. The Astors received their invitation the following day.

https://www.antiquetrader.com/collecting-101/the-vanderbilt-ball-of-1883

 

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, quangtran said:

I like Aurora as well, but part of me thinks she's still somewhat angry at the Russell and just does a better job at hiding it than Anne Morris.

Aurora is more pragmatic than Anne Morris. Like Agnes, Anne Morris has this idealized view of society where “new people” are never accepted.

Aurora is willing to make a deal and trade favors for her own benefit or to save herself while Anne Morris is not. In Anne Morris’s world, she’s at the top of the food chain and that is where she will remain. Aurora understands that while she’s at the top, she can be “humbled” at any moment.

Also, I’m beginning to think that Aurora is starting to genuinely like Bertha.

[ChlcGal]

My two cents:

1. Aurora Fane's look was a "poor Marian" look because now we have a second young heiress (one who is in society but has a scandal .. maybe) showing interest in Raikes.  I'm speculating Raikes would be an acceptable choice for such a lady (attorney, knows the right people, and knows how to behave in society) if your daughter was tainted and "untouchable" by society gentleman.  And I think Raikes would totally throw Marian over for a nice townhouse wedding present and a yearly allowance.

2.  Oscar.  This is an unpopular opinion but I think Oscar would be a good match for Gladys.  Hear me out!  Yes, he's gay and will continue to be involved with men but I think he would be kind to her and encourage her to find her own diversions.  There's no way that Gladys will be allowed to marry for love.  At least she can be with someone who would care about her as a friend and gain her her freedom from Bertha.

Go ahead - toss some tomatoes at me 🙂

[dmc]

13 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Despite her desperate and futile attempts to seduce George I find Turner an intriguing character. She has spotted the fault lines in the Russell marriage that nobody else has noticed - well, George seems to slowly recognize them too. I'm sure we'll see Turner again and I wonder how they are going to pull that off. Since they made such a big deal of her getting good recommendations she'll probably resurface as someone else's lady's maid. 

Agreed she did spot their marriage friction. 

 

6 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

2.  Oscar.  This is an unpopular opinion but I think Oscar would be a good match for Gladys.  Hear me out!  Yes, he's gay and will continue to be involved with men but I think he would be kind to her and encourage her to find her own diversions.  There's no way that Gladys will be allowed to marry for love.  At least she can be with someone who would care about her as a friend and gain her her freedom from Bertha.

Go ahead - toss some tomatoes at me 🙂

Due to supply chain shortage, I don’t have heirloom tomatoes to spare.  I got the last three.  But I have some new Penn tennis balls. Don’t worry, I am not the best shot. Gladys could marry for love just someone socially acceptable.  There are people with advantageous and loving marriages.  It’s difficult to find but not impossible. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by dmc

[ChlcGal]

2 minutes ago, dmc said:

Agreed she did spot their marriage friction. 

 

Due to supply chain shortage, I don’t have heirloom tomatoes to spare.  I got the last three.  But I have some new Penn tennis balls. Don’t worry, I am not the best shot. Gladys could marry for love just someone socially acceptable.  There are people with advantageous and loving marriages.  It’s difficult to find but not impossible. 

I agree there are some loving marriages, but I will say this we have no clue if they started out loving or if that grew.

Also, I think it's pretty clear that Bertha doesn't consider "love" an important factor in who Gladys marries and that she, Bertha, will be picking out the suitor.  If they are following along the "dollar princess" angle, Gladys is doomed.

[dmc]

3 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

I agree there are some loving marriages, but I will say this we have no clue if they started out loving or if that grew.

Also, I think it's pretty clear that Bertha doesn't consider "love" an important factor in who Gladys marries and that she, Bertha, will be picking out the suitor.  If they are following along the "dollar princess" angle, Gladys is doomed.

No Bertha does not but most of the women carted off to Europe for marriage eventually got divorced. But since this is Julian Fellowes, I suspect she will find love.  

Edited March 8, 2022 by dmc

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

Also, I think it's pretty clear that Bertha doesn't consider "love" an important factor in who Gladys marries and that she, Bertha, will be picking out the suitor.

I think that’s unclear Bertha considers love an unimportant factor but it’s not the #1 on the list of priorities. Maybe it’s #2 out of a host of factors one would consider in a potential marriage.

#1 is finding someone socially acceptable. Gladys is free to find love and happiness out of a pool of suitors that Bertha deems appropriate.

Edited March 8, 2022 by AntFTW

[ChlcGal]

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

I think that’s unclear Bertha considers love an unimportant factor but it’s not the #1 on the list of priorities. Maybe it’s #2 out of a host of factors one would consider in a potential marriage.

#1 is finding someone socially acceptable. Gladys is free to find love and happiness out of a pool of suitors that Bertha deems appropriate.

I don't know.  She should have been tickled with an Old New York, only son, only heir, hanging with Carrie Astor and Mrs Fish in Newport Oscar.  But she said she wanted "better"

[AntFTW]

29 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

2.  Oscar.  This is an unpopular opinion but I think Oscar would be a good match for Gladys.  Hear me out!  Yes, he's gay and will continue to be involved with men but I think he would be kind to her and encourage her to find her own diversions.  There's no way that Gladys will be allowed to marry for love.  At least she can be with someone who would care about her as a friend and gain her her freedom from Bertha.

Go ahead - toss some tomatoes at me 🙂

BOOOOO!!!!

jk ☺️

[AntFTW]

14 minutes ago, ChlcGal said:

I don't know.  She should have been tickled with an Old New York, only son, only heir, hanging with Carrie Astor and Mrs Fish in Newport Oscar.  But she said she wanted "better"

Yes, but were his parents on Mrs. Astor's 400 list?

Edited March 8, 2022 by AntFTW

[AZChristian]

Thanks for the "heads up" on the trailer for next week.  Sure looked like Marian's purse to me.  Maybe the cracks in Raikes' armor are going to be revealed soon.

I thought the look from Mrs. Fane at the rolling picnic was a reflection of her recognition that Mr. Raikes would drop Marian in a hot second because the young lady sitting next to him in the carriage is from a MUCH more well-to-do family than Marian.  As an "adventurer," he's hunting the biggest prize.  And we all know how quickly he can move in and start proposing to a young woman.

I think casting would have been better if the guy playing John Adams was playing Oscar.  He actually is somewhat appealing to look at.

[AntFTW]

Just now, AZChristian said:

Thanks for the "heads up" on the trailer for next week.  Sure looked like Marian's purse to me.  Maybe the cracks in Raikes' armor are going to be revealed soon.

I think that's editing magic.

[Haleth]

32 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

And we all know how quickly he can move in and start proposing to a young woman.

He did warn Marian that NYC is full of distractions. Like the one sitting next to him. 

[AntFTW]

10 minutes ago, Haleth said:

He did warn Marian that NYC is full of distractions. Like the one sitting next to him. 

Like the [several] sitting next to him throughout the season.

[Brian Cronin]

I think the big problem with Jacobson and the dude who plays Raikes is that they are confusing formal language with formal behavior. They are using old school language when they talk, but that's only because this is, you know, set in the 1880s! They should not be literally treating each other formally!! But they do, and it sucks. 

I know it is a high standard, but can't they at least watch Michelle Pfeifer and Daniel Day Lewis in Age of Innocence and TRY to act like that?

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Brian Cronin

[MissLucas]

7 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

 

I know it's a high standard, but can't they at least watch Daniel Day Lewis and Michelle Pfeiffer in Age of Innocence and TRY to act like that?

 

Fixed that for you 😉

[Brian Cronin]

2 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Fixed that for you 😉

Touche! :)

[Pj3422]

9 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

 

When Miss Astor said let’s include Sally Drexel as a dancer for the quadrille, I smiled — really cool to include a Drexel reference as Christine Baranski’s beloved late husband was a Drexel.  

The actor who played Billy Clyde Tuggle was a Drexel?! And Bannister played Arthur Dent?! This forum may be more entertaining than the show! 

[NeenerNeener]

I'm starting to feel sorry for Blake Ritson, the actor who plays Oscar. He's been in a villain in a number of different shows, and now he's a villain in this one too. Although type casting is still work, I guess.

[Haleth]

Nawww, villains have the most fun. 

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

What would Marian be sacrificing? She has no money nor a job to earn a living and that shallow society isn't worth anything. And Agnes said to Ada that she would abandon Marian. 

 

3 hours ago, RachelKM said:

In short, her reputation. And that is all Marian has.  She doesn't have money.  Thus, the only thing that she has to recommend her is her connection to the Old Money crowd. But if she burns her reputation, that is done. If Raikes turned out not to be the one for her, she'd be tainted and all the old money relations in the world wouldn't make her marriable for anyone else interested in remaining in their society.

And, in fact, even if she and Raikes were a love for the ages, being caught having illicit assignations (i.e. meeting in secret as an unengaged couple) could be disastrous for Raikes as a social climber. If they got married, they wouldn't fall further.  But his marrying her after scandal would mean that they'd never be cimb higher and her connections would be moot. And even if he could otherwise climb on his own merits, their past affairs might keep them out of some circles.

 

3 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I doubt the writing will go the way of people finding out. But that is what Marian is risking.  And, as indicated in the post, Raikes hardly seems worth it, especially if she isn't even in love. She is willing to meet him in secret to find out if she could love him. Why? Other than she's a dipshit who takes pleasure in flouting rules and thinks she's immune to consequences. 

Yup, that's basically what I meant. She is taking risks--even she herself says this. It's like she has this mild instinct to break rules and she's doing it for this guy she's mildly attracted to. She's not paticularly rebellious or particularly in love. She thinks all this stuff doesn't matter, but is she really able to make that choice yet? That's what Mrs. Chamberlain is warning her about.  

3 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

And this show celebrates the beginning of light pollution and the obscuring of stars in the night sky.

I admit I thought the same thing, even while knowing how much I use electicity!

Tuner seems to be incapable of keeping herself from touching any man she's talking to. IT's so weird how she and Oscar want to have a secret alliance and then just hang out in public outside the house to make it clear they have an alliance.

Maybe I'm not reading this right, but regarding Raikes being polite to the lady he was accompanying, was it significant that he said he would try to call on her in Newport? I seem to remember him saying that and I wondered if that was part of Aurora's look. That yes, he needs to be polite and charming to her, but he seemed to be genuinely planning to visit her. And of course, it's not like Raikes would turn down the invitation just because Marian couldn't go.

[AntFTW]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And of course, it's not like Raikes would turn down the invitation just because Marian couldn't go.

Well... he's doing what Marian explicitly told him to do, which is break into society. He's taking every opportunity even if Marian cannot tag along, like at the opera house.

[MerBearHou]

20 minutes ago, Pj3422 said:

The actor who played Billy Clyde Tuggle was a Drexel?!

Yes, how about THAT??!!  Billy Clyde is so memorable and when Christine married Matthew Cowles, I was so stunned because I couldn’t picture anyone falling for Billy Clyde, especially the amazing CB — yes, his family history is Old New York.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

 

I think Oscar is kind of a fun character

If so, he shoudn't be. His fate is actually quite tragic, as he can't live openly such as he is. 

[tennisgurl]

I loved the lighting scene, its so cool to be reminded of what a huge game changer electricity was and how incredible that must have felt to people at the time. Electricity is so unremarkable now that it can be hard for us to really understand what it must have been like for people to see it for the first time, I think the show nailed it. Everyone looked so excited, it really did feel like the dawning of a new era. You could really do a whole different show about Edison, his various rivalries as he tried to eat up patents like Pac Man eating fruit, and the battle to bring electricity to the masses, its a really interesting story.

Larry actually made a good pitch to George about why he should be an architect. George actually seemed impressed, I bet a self made man like him would respect his son wanting to make his own way in the world and create his own legacy. Although I'm not sure he wants to be associated with Stanford White, if people think that a woman touching a mans shirt is scandalous, just wait until they hear what he was getting up to in his down time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_White

I really want to know more about Aunt Ada, she seems quite a bit more worldly than Agatha seems to give her credit for. I almost wonder if she'll realize Oscar is gay before Agatha even contemplates it. 

Turner is finally gone but I cant imagine this is the last we see of her. She's such an annoying character, I have no clue what her motivations are besides become mistress to a rich guy, which I can understand, but why is she so pissed off at everyone? She's one of those Julian Fellowes characters that only seem to exist to be a shit stirrer and be evil for no reason.

I think that expression on Aurora's face was her realizes that Mr. Raikes isn't as devoted to Marian as she thinks he is. I don't even know if he's some devious schemer with a manipulative plan, he might just be a weak willed social climber who will turn his eye towards any pretty society woman who gives him some attention. I hope so anyway. I have really come to like Aurora, she is probably one of my favorite supporting characters. She's old money but she can see the writing on the wall when it comes to the new money so she is willing to play ball with them. It probably started out of pragmatism, but I think she has come to enjoy hanging out with Bertha. Never a dull moment with her.

[chitowngirl]

2 hours ago, ChlcGal said:

2.  Oscar.  This is an unpopular opinion but I think Oscar would be a good match for Gladys.  Hear me out!  Yes, he's gay and will continue to be involved with men but I think he would be kind to her and encourage her to find her own diversions.  There's no way that Gladys will be allowed to marry for love.  At least she can be with someone who would care about her as a friend and gain her her freedom from Bertha.

And Gladys being young and naive, would find nothing odd about her marriage and couldn’t even fathom her husband’s preferences. But I think they’d both be happy. Oscar would treat her well and Gladys would be out from under her mother’s thumb and have considerable freedom. I suspect Bertha, however, is going to go the Vanderbilt route with her. And Gladys will be miserable. The ONLY reason that scenario won’t play out is that it will take Gladys out of America.

32 minutes ago, Pj3422 said:

The actor who played Billy Clyde Tuggle was a Drexel?! And Bannister played Arthur Dent?! This forum may be more entertaining than the show! 

I absolutely love that Matthew Cowles is remembered for a character he played on All My Children 40 years ago!! 
 

I’m still curious about Ada’s story. When Agnes married Mr. VR, was she set up in a small household and then moved to the Big House upon his death? Why didn’t Mr. VR try to get her married off? She’s obviously not a simpleton, unless Agnes and Ada pretended that she was so she be deemed not marriage material and thus left alone to her own devices. I could see why she wouldn’t WANT to be married when her brother and Mr. VR were not great examples of what marriage and men were all about.

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Electricity is so unremarkable now that it can be hard for us to really understand what it must have been like for people to see it for the first time

I’m reminded of how remarkable electricity is every time the power goes out in a storm! 😆

[Tango64]

With all the period appropriate emphasis on formality, class distinctions, and things that are "just not done," it seemed false the way Turner walked into Russell's bedroom while he was in bed and he had only a very mild reaction. A fired female servant enters his bedroom uninvited and he just has a conversation with her? Allows her to come stand at his bedside and finger his bedding?

I mean, even if we are to think he has some interest in her, he'd still be concerned about the impropriety of it all if she were seen entering his bedroom. And if not, he should be outraged at the brazen trespass to his private quarters.

I also commented earlier that it rang false when he let her linger in his bed and had a calm conversation with her the first time she trespassed. So I guess they're at least consistent about that.