S01.E04: A Long Ladder

[Roseanna]

59 minutes ago, shang yiet said:

And I am really not interested in Peggy. I feel like I've seen that storyline before - spunky smart girl resisting family pressure and needs to do her own thing, blah blah.  

We have not seen that storyline with Black heroine, nor the early Black middle class in the 1880s.

[yellowjacket]

42 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Good ponts.

However,  there were usually rules about times for visits - maybe they weren't said aloud, but everyone knew them. F.ex. one didn't visit during meals like Marian did which showed that either she didn't care to show ordinary politeness - or Peggy's family are at diffent time than she was used to do. 

 

People would let it be known what days/afternoons they would be "in" to receive guests.  Marian from Doylestown is such a rube.

Another thing - it's 1882, there's no Brooklyn Bridge (opened the next year), no subways (not built until the 1900s) cars (1910s), etc.   There were some elevated train lines but they weren't all connected. Marian would have to get herself downtown somehow, probably a horse-drawn bus kind of thing, board a ferry, and then probably hire a hack at the Brooklyn docks to get to wherever Peggy's family lived.  I'm assuming Brooklyn Heights.  Brooklyn was a separate city, wasn't a borough of NYC until 1898.

FWIW I am partly descended from these old Dutch New Yorkers - paternal Grandma was part of the Debevoise and Rappleyea families.  (There are like a million Americans descended from the Rappleyeas.)  She was born in 1890 in Brooklyn.  In the 1960s one of my cousins got in trouble for a grade school essay on the family tree because the teacher thought he was making it up. 

My other Grandma was born in Bayonne NJ in 1899 because her father had a travelling pool hall (really) that was there in the summer.  After the summer he brought it back to Brooklyn.  She lived into her nineties and boy did she have stories of the olden days.

Sorry for the digression.

Edited February 15, 2022 by yellowjacket

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, shang yiet said:

As for Marion, it would be more interesting if she drops the wide-eyed act and suddenly become aware that she is penniless, dependent on Aunt Agnes's charity and needs to marry well before Agnes drops dead. That would be a more interesting storyline, how to find a husband in the Gilded Age.

Yes! A heroine who is desperate to find a husband and uses every trick to succeed.

[Hiyo]

Quote

Me three. I wish her well. I'd like to hang out with her or be friends IRL. But so far her story is a bit by the numbers. In fact, her parents seem like they might be more weird and interesting to watch.

Yup. I said in another post how the appeal of this for me is Dynasty as a period drama, so at this point the only thing that could make Peggy interesting for me to watch is if she and/or her mother start going all Dominique Deveraux on Bertha's ass.

[eejm]

8 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes! A heroine who is desperate to find a husband and uses every trick to succeed.

Isn’t that more or less Turner’s story?

[AntFTW]

[Noneofyourbusiness]

32 minutes ago, eejm said:

I think this is the first hint we’ve had that Arthur is a former slave, but yes.  He remembered his uncle who was sold away, so Arthur had to have been a slave.  It was also confirmed on the accompanying podcast that Arthur was a slave, but Dorothy (Peggy’s mom) was always a free woman.

Also, the casting news from November 2020 mentioned Arthur being a freed slave, and the online bios.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, shang yiet said:

As for Marion, it would be more interesting if she drops the wide-eyed act and suddenly become aware that she is penniless, dependent on Aunt Agnes's charity and needs to marry well before Agnes drops dead. That would be a more interesting storyline, how to find a husband in the Gilded Age.

That reminds me, it's amusing how the episodes on the digital TV guide that haven't had their specific synopses added yet still have the original series summary from when it was being developed: "A wide-eyed young scion of a conservative family embarks on a mission to infiltrate the wealthy neighboring clan dominated by ruthless railroad tycoon George Russell, his rakish son, Larry, and his ambitious wife, Bertha."

Obviously things changed, since Marion isn't on a mission to infiltrate the Russells and Larry isn't rakish.

[buckboard]

34 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I was hoping we would learn the specifics on what caused the rift between Peggy and her father.  Because as it stands, he comes across reasonable enough.  Peggy is pursuing her writing while living in servants' quarters, dealing with bigotry and mali

It's one thing if she had to endure all of that because she had nowhere else to go, but to tolerate it because she doesn't want to work for her father makes her appear almost as ungrateful and immature as Marian. I don't recall her saying she had her own income before returning to New York, so I assume she was living off an allowance from her parents?  Her saving grace is being talented.          

 

Makes me wonder even more why did Peggy go see Raikes to get legal advice from him  About what?

[poeticlicensed]

I think Raikes is society. When Mariantold Bertha at the concert how remarkable Raikes rise has been there were some knowing looks from the women behind them. I had a fleeting thought that he might be Mrs Chamberlain's son. 

My opinion as to why George didn't fire the maid us he subscribes to the keep your enemies close theory. Shes knows a lot and he doesn't want her put there blabbing. 

Berthas going to the concert cape was to die for. 

So is Julian Fellows fashioning the Russells after the Vanderbilts? George is in railroads, he was one of the founders of the Met because the 400 wouldn't accept them into the Academy. And I'm totally getting Alva and Consuelo from Bertha and Gladys. If they have a huge masked ball that finally allows them to break in, my hunch will be correct 

 

[DiabLOL]

Is Raikes a coke dealer?! How on earth is he hanging with that crowd already? If he turns out to be a good guy then Fellowes is an even more tone dead writer than I think he is.

I think there’s too many characters and storylines going on and frankly I don’t think Fellowes is all that capable of handling them. Last night during the maid’s sad story I actually worried I had compassion fatigue and couldn’t take one more character I had to know about. I have plenty already. 
I really wish Peggy and her family friends, neighbors and fellow writers etc had their own show with white people being more background characters. I think she only serves to tell us who’s racist or not in this show. The show can’t accommodate the amount of story she deserves.

Back then they definitely had calling hours but it doesn’t matter because stupid Marion knew she was barging in on Peggy’s mom’s birthday lunch! Even if I was stupid enough to barge in and also bring a giant bag stuffed with hand me downs (pretty sure I’d opt for food instead) I wouldn’t open that bag on pain of death! I’d be all oh what this yeah latest from Paris they call it “Le Tote” and I’d pose with it while inching towards the door.

I don’t really trust Fellowes’ writing enough so I think we’re supposed to see Marion as this breath of fresh air woke tornado. I do believe she cares for Peggy deeply but she seems to think that racism, like all the old money vs new money crap is ridiculous so let’s just act like it’s something we can just ignore. Same attitude with her basically befriending Mrs. C.

Russell should have tossed Turner out or had Bertha do it (tell her he caught Turner stealing or whatever) but I get why he didn’t. He must have women throwing moves on him all the time and thinks it’s no big deal.

[poeticlicensed]

37 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes! A heroine who is desperate to find a husband and uses every trick to succeed.

I really want a screen version of The Custom of the Country. 

[Hiyo]

Quote

So is Julian Fellows fashioning the Russells after the Vanderbilts? George is in railroads, he was one of the founders of the Met because the 400 wouldn't accept them into the Academy. And I'm totally getting Alva and Consuelo from Bertha and Gladys. If they have a huge masked ball that finally allows them to break in, my hunch will be correct 

Many on here mentioned that from episode 1. With Agnes and her family as stand-in for the Astors, though this show has shown us the Astors, so...I guess more accurate to say the Russells are also fashioned after every new money family who wanted to break into NYC's old money social circles.

[poeticlicensed]

1 minute ago, Hiyo said:

Many on here mentioned that from episode 1. With Agnes and her family as stand-in for the Astors, though this show has shown us the Astors, so...I guess more accurate to say the Russells are also fashioned after every new money family who wanted to break into NYC's old money social circles.

Its mainly the Bertha/Gladys Alva/Consuelo thing 

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I am rubbing my hands with glee at Nathan Lane arriving as Ward McAllister.

Is he?  That will be great!

Mrs Chamberlain is far more interesting than any of the other society ladies. And her art collection is stunning.

Oh, Marian. That was so embarrassing. As soon as she saw the house she should have ditched the bag. Even better, leave her card and go home.  She has really taken to her role as a charitable benefactor, never stopping to think how insulting it would be to foist her old shoes off on Peggy’s family, whether they need it or not.  She blew her superficial friendship with Peggy.  How can it not be awkward between them now?

Bloomingdales.  Snooty from day 1.

What was Agnes’s line?  Something about needing to be cheered up if she had to live in Brooklyn?

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Haleth

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm starting to wonder if there wasn't a trust fund set up by Marion's father for her that would be given to her upon his death or her marriage.  Raikes would certainly be in a position to know about it and Marion's father may not have told her and would assume that if he died and she were unmarried, that at the reading of the will the lawyer would explain it.  It would certainly explain his urgent desire to marry her and his working overtime mixing with Old Money to make himself an acceptable marriage prospect to Aunt Agnes (which further makes me wonder if any "marriage" provision was contingent upon family approval of the betrothed as "suitable").  

From what we know about Marian's father, the simplest explanation is he died broke and left Marian broke.  It's not the first time he's left the women in his family broke.  The last thing I see him doing is thinking ahead and setting up trust funds with money he didn't even have.

19 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I think Raikes is society. When Mariantold Bertha at the concert how remarkable Raikes rise has been there were some knowing looks from the women behind them. I had a fleeting thought that he might be Mrs Chamberlain's son.

Mrs. Chamberlain said her son is in Chicago.  Raikes is from the tiny Pennsylvania town Marian is from.  I doubt very much that a very wealthy young man like young Mr. Chamberlain would retreat to some podunk town in the middle of nowhere to be a country lawyer when he could go to Chicago with his Chamberlain money and live like a rich man getting richer investing in hog futures.

Raikes is an ambitious adventurer, as both Agnes and Bertha clocked immediately, not to mention the Fanes.

[AntFTW]

20 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

So is Julian Fellows fashioning the Russells after the Vanderbilts? George is in railroads, he was one of the founders of the Met because the 400 wouldn't accept them into the Academy. And I'm totally getting Alva and Consuelo from Bertha and Gladys. If they have a huge masked ball that finally allows them to break in, my hunch will be correct 

I think I saw in one of the 'Inside the Episode' segments or on the podcast that the Russells are modeled after several figures of that era. Morgan Spector mentioned that he did research on Jay Gould for the character. Also, the events of episode 3 are clearly inspired by Cornelius Vanderbilt.

In this series, the Russells are not included in the founding of the Met (as far as we know). I feel like we would have seen that.

[Roseanna]

27 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I think Raikes is society. When Mariantold Bertha at the concert how remarkable Raikes rise has been there were some knowing looks from the women behind them. I had a fleeting thought that he might be Mrs Chamberlain's son. 

 

24 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

Is Raikes a coke dealer?! How on earth is he hanging with that crowd already? If he turns out to be a good guy then Fellowes is an even more tone dead writer than I think he is.

Maybe Fellowes turned "a prince in disguise" to "a millionaire's son who wanted to succeed in his own and then fell for a girl whom he wanted to win only with this own efforts".

Frankly, I think most speculations presented here (stealing Marian's fortune etc) have had no basis on facts. The only matter Mr Raikes had done wrong was that he didn't believe Marian's initial "no" - but that's Fellowe's formula for romance.     

[AntFTW]

4 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Frankly, I think most speculations presented here (stealing Marian's fortune etc) have had no basis on facts.

Specifically, I think the "stealing Marian's fortune" theory is not likely at all. I think Marian being penniless is settled.

Marian has no money. I don't think there's any mystery behind that. Raikes didn't steal her nonexistent wealth.

Edited February 15, 2022 by AntFTW

[Roseanna]

47 minutes ago, buckboard said:

Makes me wonder even more why did Peggy go see Raikes to get legal advice from him  About what?

Maybe they are conspiring together: Marian didn't want Raikes to stay in the station nor write to her and maybe he had guessed it and asked help from Peggy, as well as arranging somebody to steal Marian's ticket and money, so that Peggy could help her and get to know her. Then Peggy needs help from a lawyer and Marian gets a chance to meet Raikes.

Of course I don't really believe in this scenario, but in a spy series it wouldn't be at all unlikely.

[Roseanna]

So far, nobody hasn't mentioned what Mrs Fane said: that if the Old Money doesn't eventually accept New Money, the will form their own society. 

Will Mr McAllister help Mrs Russell?

[Roseanna]

45 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

I really wish Peggy and her family friends, neighbors and fellow writers etc had their own show with white people being more background characters. I think she only serves to tell us who’s racist or not in this show. The show can’t accommodate the amount of story she deserves.

Yes!

 That would be a new theme. But Fellowes isn't the right writer for it.

[yellowjacket]

17 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes!

 That would be a new theme. But Fellowes isn't the right writer for it.

I've been reading about 1880s era black New York because of this show  There's some really good stuff out there, including a book called Black Gotham.  Definitely enough material for a movie/series.  Ava DuVernay?

[AntFTW]

7 hours ago, eejm said:

Who said Marian doesn’t see Peggy as an equal?  Her assumption that Peggy was poor was way off base (and yes, it was made based on the color of Peggy’s skin), but I don’t believe Marian sees Peggy as less than.  Case in point: their trip to the shop.  Marian is all sorts of dense in not realizing that Peggy was getting death stares from the staff, but I think in her mind Marian felt Peggy had just as much right to be there as she did.  Marian doesn’t recognize that their worlds are very different which is shockingly naive, but she certainly doesn’t believe Peggy is less of a person.

I agree that Marian doesn't see Peggy as less. 'Dense' is not a strong enough word for Marian. She needs to get out more. She has no awareness of her surroundings; she doesn't know how to read a room; she doesn't know how to read people; she has no filter. These are basic things that you learn just from existing and being around people. It's like Marian's been secluded her entire life.

Mrs. Chamberlain read the room, noticed Peggy's discomfort and the staff giving Peggy those disgusting looks.

Marian makes me want to bang my head against the wall. Watching Marian makes you want to say "fuck it, I give up. She's hopeless."

[TV Anonymous]

I learned quite a bit in this episode.

1. So Brooklyn was where the Black high society lived? I think it is a good idea to authentically portray the life of affluent Black society in history. No, Bridgerton does not count.
2. What was so wrong with hot soup for lunch and trifle for dessert? Bannister schooling Church on table setup was funny, though.
3. Frontal nudity? I've a feeling we're not in Downton Abbey anymore! And unless deep down he wanted something to eventually happen, Mr. Russell was an idiot for not terminating Turner the next morning.

[AntFTW]

18 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

What was so wrong with hot soup for lunch and trifle for dessert? Bannister schooling Church on table setup was funny, though.

It was one of my favorite scenes in the episode. It was hilarious.

18 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Frontal nudity? I've a feeling we're not in Downton Abbey anymore! And unless deep down he wanted something to eventually happen, Mr. Russell was an idiot for not terminating Turner the next morning.

That's what makes me think he eventually takes the bait, the fact that this woman is still lingering around. Additionally, she's even more useless now that Aurora Fane is helping Bertha get into society.

Edited February 16, 2022 by AntFTW

[CarpeFelis]

18 hours ago, peridot said:

George really should have let his wife know what her maid did.  She would feel humiliated that her husband has a secret with one of her staff.

I really can't understand Marian's thought process - she respects her aunts enough to snub Mrs. Chamberlain but not enough that it affects her courting with Raikes?  I really hated that she dragged Peggy into the shop too, without trying to read the room.

George definitely should tell his wife. She really needs to watch her back around that backstabbing bitch. Plus I SO want to watch the fireworks she’d let loose on her! If the only reason for keeping Turner on is that she knows things about society that she can advise Bertha on… why not find someone else who can do the same? (BTW, Turner with that pointy chin and usually sour expression really conjures up Margaret Hamilton for me. Anyone else hear the Wicked Witch of the West theme music in your head whenever she shows ups on screen?)

I also hated it when Marian dragged Peggy into the shop. She really should have known better. I felt bad for Peggy getting all those looks from the store employees. Good for Mrs. Chamberlain being more inclusive to her. I was really afraid that as they left, one of the employees would falsely accuse Peggy of shoplifting.

And showing up uninvited at Peggy’s house and offering her a used pair of shoes? O…M…G! Peggy’s dad should have allowed her to save face, and he was being pretty abrasive, but what he said wasn’t wrong, either. It was amusing, BTW, that when Marian got out of the carriage she was getting the same “WTF are you doing here” looks from people that Peggy was getting in the store.

As for Raikes… after it was brought up at the symphony that he isn’t rich, I noticed Marian look over at him and could practically see the wheels turning in her head. Is she finally starting to wonder if he’s got ulterior motives? There’s just something off-putting about him to me.

Edited February 15, 2022 by CarpeFelis
typo

[SailorGirl]

46 minutes ago, izabella said:

 

Mrs. Chamberlain said her son is in Chicago. 

I was just coming here to post this. The speculation that her son might be one of the servants, or Raikes, or someone in their immediate circles got cleared up last night. Society knows her son -- she said he moved to Chicago because he was tired of all the societal judgments. He clearly spent time participating in the wealthy society, so they would all know who he is. Its not like he could be hidden as a servant, or show up as some out-of-towner that no one knows.

Also, regardless of how badly it played, Marion was making a good faith effort to be a friend to Peggy -- she just didn't have enough knowledge of Peggy's life to go about it properly.  I do believe in her naivete she considered Peggy a friend (that is until Peggy set her straight). 

She told the Aunts she was going to Brooklyn because she knew a friend would need cheering up. So her intent was sincere; her execution, however, was that of a naive, sheltered wealthy white woman making assumptions about Peggy's familial and financial situation based solely on her being black. She figured the shoes would be her excuse for calling and that she could provide Peggy with an excuse to leave. Her mistakes were that she didn't know (nor do we, yet) what exactly has transpired between Peggy and her father to make Peggy feel the way she does and assuming that Peggy didn't have a lot of depth because she is black.

She does deserve a little credit for at least trying to move past the racial standards of the time. She doesn't have enough exposure to the world outside of Doylestown to realize that black families of the time were not all poor and downtrodden. I don't think her intent was to be a white savior but her naivete and lack of societal practice to quickly gloss over an awkward situation cast her in that light. 

[izabella]

36 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

So Brooklyn was where the Black high society lived? I think it is a good idea to authentically portray the life of affluent Black society in history. No, Bridgerton does not count.

I did not know anything about this Brooklyn history, and find it more interesting than Bertha's social climbing.  

It's interesting that Brooklyn homes like Peggy's parents' place are so grand, and then were cut up into multiple apartments at some point over the years, and now they are being restored back into single family mansions in Brooklyn.  It's fun to see a representation of what they originally might have looked like inside.

[CarpeFelis]

8 hours ago, eejm said:

Marian did not know anything about Peggy’s family, but Peggy made it clear from the start that she did not want to discuss her family due to the fight with her father.  Marian respected that and didn’t push it.  So while Marian is woefully unobservant about certain aspects of Peggy’s life, I don’t think her sense of equality is the problem here.  I believe she views Peggy as a genuine friend and has treated her as such, albeit in a sometimes very misguided manner.

Unfortunately, since Marian is aware that Peggy won’t discuss her family and therefore she knows nothing about them, that just makes it all the more tone deaf of her to show up at their house uninvited.

[eejm]

1 minute ago, CarpeFelis said:

Unfortunately, since Marian is aware that Peggy won’t discuss her family and therefore she knows nothing about them, that just makes it all the more tone deaf of her to show up at their house uninvited.

I agree completely.  Marian’s problem is that she isn’t paying attention, not that she thinks of Peggy as a lesser person.  

When it comes to Peggy, both Arthur and Marion have a similar problem.  They both have good intentions and care for Peggy, but their manner of showing their affection for her is definitely not what Peggy needs.  Arthur knows the world for African-American people of the time is difficult and cruel, and he wants Peggy to be comfortable and safe.  This he can’t accept or understand why she wants to make it as a writer when she could concentrate on the pharmacy.  Marian is supportive of Peggy’s writing career, but (erroneously) believes that as her friend is black she must be poor.  She isn’t paying attention to all of the signs that Peggy clearly comes from money, so she embarrasses the whole family and herself when she shows up with the shoes.  Both are well-meaning people, but both Marian and Arthur fall very short of giving Peggy what she needs.  

[MBayGal]

18 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Gotta say, this society is really obnoxious. Whether or not Marian is "really" Peggy's friend, imagine having that relationship with someone and then get accused of showing up uninvited if you go by the house when you're in the neighborhood.

Someone may have already pointed this out, but for Marion living on the Upper (East?) Side, traveling to Brooklyn would be a serious journey, hardly "in the neighborhood." Peggy's family also would expect the same courtesy of a visitor as Agnes does; someone who is not familiar to them would not just drop in.

I wonder how Marion made such a long trip alone without Agnes knowing.

[dmc]

4 hours ago, buttersister said:

I like them, but that's primarily because I like the actors. Otoh, I was supposed to root for DA's Lady Mary and I never did.

I absolutely loved Mary.  Because even though she could be so terrible sometimes like you always saw these glimpses of humanity within her.  I honestly think the acting in general on Downton Abbey was better.


 

I don’t know the actors on this show.  All of them are new to me except for Nathan Lane that’s apparently showing up next week. 

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes! A heroine who is desperate to find a husband and uses every trick to succeed.

She doesn’t act like this at all though.  
 

But I think it’s realistic because up to three weeks ago she considered herself to be wealthy. Maybe her behavior hasn’t caught up to her circumstances

[Haleth]

45 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

s for Raikes… after it was brought up at the symphony that he isn’t rich, I noticed Marian look over at him and could practically see the wheels turning in her head. Is she finally starting to wonder if he’s got ulterior motives?

I don’t know. I took her glance as seeing him in a different light, comfortable with the very rich and not the country bumpkin he seemed to be. 

[Kirsty]

The most predictable storyline for Gladys would be... Keeping her locked up and sheltered ensures that she stays naive and ignorant, she doesn't trust her family/mother's judgment, and she longs to break out of her prison. That combination makes her ripe for exploitation by a worldly fortune hunter, especially if her mother doesn't approve of him. So maybe she'll elope with Oscar, thinking it desperately romantic and liberating at the same time.

At the concert, when Marian told Bertha that Raikes has no money, the Fane husband and wife exchanged a look. What do you think that meant? Raikes is so dull I'd prefer if he fell under a carriage, but perhaps he's secretly shady or secretly wealthy. Anything to liven him up!

I agree with whoever said that they had thought Larry/Marian was the key romantic pairing because Larry and Marian got a meet-cute, and because one belongs to the principal new money family and one to the principal old money family. But it has gone nowhere. Larry's character has gone nowhere, let alone his relationships. He was barely in this episode.

Bertha is an interesting female character. She's a proud, cold, ambitious woman. Unfortunately those qualities would be more effective in someone who could make their own way in the world in this period ie. A man. Soft power is the only kind open to her, and I hate to say this shit but you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Imagine if Bertha was the most charming, sociable woman in the room, always laughing and with friends everywhere. People would *want* to be with her. Anyway, my main issue with the character is: has she had any victories of her own? Everything seems to be contrived by her husband. I know he's doing it because he loves her, but it makes her seem a bit useless. Even this week's dog rescue ploy failed! I would like her to be able to succeed in her own realm while he succeeds in his. But I guess he's trying to buy that for her.

I thought Marian assuming things about Peggy and surprising her family was a good story development. Totally rang true, showed Marian up painfully, and I didn't know Julian Fellowes had that in him.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Kirsty

[Fireball]

Marion is an idiot! I know she's supposed to be this innocent naive person, but it's not enjoyable to watch... It's painful..  I don't think even a better actress would help; the writing is just blah.  I do think I could take this innocent naive stupid storyline better if Marion was presented as younger. Say, maybe Glady's age or younger.

I'm not invested in her and Mr. Raikes romance; probably because him following her to New York was just weird. I do predict he breaks her heart by marrying someone with money. 

I do find it odd that Agnes isn't throwing more men in Marions path, so far Marion going to the symphony is the first time we've seen her out in a situation where she might meet a gentleman. 

I don't understand why Mr. Russel didn't fire that maid. It seems obvious to me that he will change his mind and sleep with her. I thought the scene where Mrs. Russel was leaving for the symphony, and he was complementing her, and she didn't have the time for him was telegraphing that. I hope I am wrong.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Fireball

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, Fireball said:

Marion is an idiot! I know she's supposed to be this innocent naive person, but it's not enjoyable to watch... It's painful..  I don't think even a better actress would help; the writing is just blah.  I do think I could take this innocent naive stupid storyline better if Marion was presented as younger. Say, maybe Glady's age or younger.

I'm not invested in her and Mr. Raikes romance; probably because him following her to New York was just weird. I do predict he breaks her heart by marring someone with money. 

I do find it odd that Agnes isn't throwing more men in Marions path, so far Marion going to the symphony is the first time we've seen her out in a situation where her might meet a gentleman. 

I don't understand why Mr. Russel didn't fire that maid. It seems obvious to me that he will change his mind and sleep with her. I thought the scene where Mrs. Russel was leaving for the symphony, and he was complementing her, and she didn't have the time for him was telegraphing that. I hope I am wrong.

 

Everything you said, I agree. 

[izabella]

19 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I don’t know. I took her glance as seeing him in a different light, comfortable with the very rich and not the country bumpkin he seemed to be. 

I thought Marion was jealous when she saw that there was a beautiful young lady chatting with Raikes in that box.

[CarpeFelis]

I doubt George will take the bait, but I do think Turner will find a way to make trouble. As she was leaving his bedroom and looking around, it made me wonder if she’s going to try to make people think she really is sleeping with him.

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, CarpeFelis said:

BTW, Turner with that pointy chin and usually sour expression really conjures up Margaret Hamilton for me. Anyone else hear the Wicked Witch of the West theme music in your head whenever she shows ups on screen?)

Yes!!!

[Haleth]

22 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

I doubt George will take the bait, but I do think Turner will find a way to make trouble. As she was leaving his bedroom and looking around, it made me wonder if she’s going to try to make people think she really is sleeping with him.

I was surprised no one saw her. 

[izabella]

I'm surprised no one has said anything to Agnes about her niece wandering around meeting Raikes in his office and then in the park, bumbling into Bloomies with Peggy, challenging the charity ladies at dinner to take the Russells' money, taking ferries to Brooklyn by herself, sneaking off to parties at the Russells, chatting up Mrs. Chamberlain every chance she gets, and chatting with Raikes in the opera box. 

Granted, not all of these things were in the open, but enough have been that I'd expect the Old NY society ladies would be whispering or beating a path to Agnes' door to tell her about all the society rules Marian is thumbing her nose at in public.  If she keeps it up, all the Old NY young men will be warned away from Marion, not to mention how hurt and upset Agnes will be when she finds out Marian shows so little respect for her.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, MBayGal said:

Someone may have already pointed this out, but for Marion living on the Upper (East?) Side, traveling to Brooklyn would be a serious journey, hardly "in the neighborhood." Peggy's family also would expect the same courtesy of a visitor as Agnes does; someone who is not familiar to them would not just drop in.

I wonder how Marion made such a long trip alone without Agnes knowing.

Right, but I was talking about the modern situation, that it's funny to imagine a world that it would be rude to assume you might want to see a friend who lived in the neighborhood if you happened to be there for whatever reason, since Marian and Peggy are on very familiar footing with each other. Like, you're not a stranger at all.

But of course I get that in Marian's context her showing up shows that she doesn't think Peggy's family is on a high enough social level to need to go through the same rituals as her white friends with cards etc. Though she did do that when asked. She had a card, the maid brought the card, the Scotts decided to see her, but mostly to tell her she was uninvited and rude.  Might as well have just told the maid they weren't at home. That's what she's there for.

[escatefromny]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

When Larry Russell saved Aunt Ada's dog, I suppose it was hinted that he would become Marian's love interest. Actually, favoring that romance would have been a good way to Bertha to get to know her Aunt Agnes - if she had to choose a country lawyer and  a son of New Money for a suitor to Marian, I would bet the latter. But nothing has happened.  

I forgot this is the second time Pumpkin tried to make a run for it.  Do better Ada?!?!? : )

[Snazzy Daisy]

Stop throwing shades y’all… 😂

 

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Kirsty said:

At the concert, when Marian told Bertha that Raikes has no money, the Fane husband and wife exchanged a look. What do you think that meant?

I rewatched the episode today because I'm old and things sometimes slip by me on a first watching.

I thought the interesting thing about that interchange was when Bertha straight-out asked Marian, "Does Mr. Raikes have money?"  Mr. and Mrs. Fane looked at each other in what I thought was a "See, she is so gauche that she actually talks about money" look.

[BabyBella94]

I'm so tired of Marian and Tom....I might be alone in this but I prefer her and Larry's chemistry. It would be such a waste if they don't explore their relationship but I'm thinking they will. 

[rollacoaster]

Since we got nearly full frontal female nudity, can we get something close to that from a hot male?

Asking for myself. 😉

I've pretty much enjoyed all of the episodes, but this is the first on that held my attention all the way through. With some of the previous ones, I found myself kinda drifting, or doing other things with the show on the background. 

[izabella]

15 minutes ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

Stop throwing shades y’all… 😂

Marian's hat is the worst.

[izabella]

15 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I rewatched the episode today because I'm old and things sometimes slip by me on a first watching.

I thought the interesting thing about that interchange was when Bertha straight-out asked Marian, "Does Mr. Raikes have money?"  Mr. and Mrs. Fane looked at each other in what I thought was a "See, she is so gauche that she actually talks about money" look.

That explanation for the glance makes perfect sense.