S11.E05: Episode 5

[EllaWycliffe]

Just now, Dehumidifier said:

Guess they are no low paid single women here.

I genuinely don't know where you're going here. 

[Dehumidifier]

2 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I genuinely don't know where you're going here. 

Miss Higgins was offered the chance of a trip of a lifetime with a friend (who was planning to pay for her, obviously) and she turned it down. I feel bad for her. 

[EllaWycliffe]

43 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

Miss Higgins was offered the chance of a trip of a lifetime with a friend (who was planning to pay for her, obviously) and she turned it down. I feel bad for her. 

But I don't think she was making up the idea that she wouldn't have a good time.

And I can understand not wanting to be beholden to a friend for a large amount of money.  A friend of mine wanted me to join her on a "backpacking around Europe" trip and was offering to pay for everything and like, yeah it would have been fun but I also could see how accepting would be a problem for our relationship AND my friend didn't see the issues beyond my not being able to afford the trip. A) I had and still do have flying anxiety B)yeah the trip is paid for but I usually spent my summers in my college years working so that I had money for the school year for books and whatever small entertainments I enjoyed. No summer job meant no money for fall semester, something my friend didn't realize.

In Miss Higgins's case, I am sure Dr. Turner would be cool because he's Dr. "super kind" Turner but most employers aren't cool with months away and I can see that being a concern. I can also see how glomping on, even if invited, to Phyllis's good fortune might make Miss Higgens feel awkward, like she was taking advantage of Phyllis. Plus honestly, I think Miss Higgins may really have the self awareness to know she would not physically do well on a lengthy bus ride around Europe. 

[Dehumidifier]

Yes, there are plenty of potential downsides but plenty of potential upsides too. At a young age you probably figured you could always travel on your own money and own dime in the future. Not likely for Miss Higgins.

I think it was mostly pride that made her turn it down. 

[proserpina65]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:59 PM, Leeds said:

 

I've never been more grateful for having a progressive mother than her handing me a box of tampons when I first got my period and saying "These are way easier and more convenient than sanitary towels."  This was back in the 70s.

Unfortunately for some of us tampons weren't easier than pads.  Never so glad to be done with that in my life.

On 4/18/2022 at 3:42 PM, limecoke said:

We’ll, I wouldn’t mind Lucille delivering my child but the “precious” is a bit much as is Trixie’s “sweetie.”  All things considered, I’d prefer Phyllis and being called “lass” is way better.

I'd want which ever one would give me the gas and air from the get go.

I'm not surprised Miss Higgins turned down the opportunity to go on a bus tour with Phyllis.  She obviously knows how set in her routines she is.

 

1 hour ago, Dehumidifier said:

Miss Higgins was offered the chance of a trip of a lifetime with a friend (who was planning to pay for her, obviously) and she turned it down. I feel bad for her. 

I think she turned it down because she knew she wouldn't enjoy how much it messed with her routines and she didn't think Phyllis would enjoy it with her along for that reason.

40 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

Yes, there are plenty of potential downsides but plenty of potential upsides too. At a young age you probably figured you could always travel on your own money and own dime in the future. Not likely for Miss Higgins.

I think it was mostly pride that made her turn it down. 

I don't agree.  I think she honestly knew she wouldn't enjoy it.

[JudyObscure]

My BFF in high school (and to this day) would always turn green on our 40 minute bus  ride in to Charleston to shop.  We would always have to stop for a coke, while she recovered from the diesel fumes, before we could set forth to giggle for the entire day. Come to think of it, she always became severely constipated when we went to camp.  Some people just don't make good travelers and if they're uncomfortable it's hard to enjoy anything much.  

I'm hoping Nurse Crane comes back with a good idea of what to do with her money after she secures her old age with a savings account.  Think of all the horrors they've witnessed.  One thing must have struck her particularly hard -- maybe  the need for little boys to have a safe place to play ball.  She could fund a little park!

Edited April 20, 2022 by JudyObscure

[photo7521]

Let's see, Caribbeans from British Colonies being asked to come to the Motherland to help out in various professions. They are well-trained and well educated, but they happen to be Black. They are disrespected by many of the people they are there to help, and if they show any type of anger or exasperation, they can lose their job.  In order to function within the society, they appear extra cheerful, and treat their charges with civility and a modicum of island charm.  Being called "precious" is a way to reassure the women that they will be cared for in a most professional manner, so they need not fear.

In 1960's UK and 2022 US Black Folk still must watch what we say and how we act within certain confines. No matter how we do our job, how professional we act, we will still be accused of being condescending and arrogant aka "uppity"(sometimes another word follows). Lucille and Cyril are only being the only way they can be at the time of this show.

[Shermie]

6 hours ago, Dehumidifier said:

Yes, there are plenty of potential downsides but plenty of potential upsides too. At a young age you probably figured you could always travel on your own money and own dime in the future. Not likely for Miss Higgins.

I think it was mostly pride that made her turn it down.

No, it was her self-awareness that she wouldn’t enjoy a six-week bus trip. 

My husband and I enjoy cruises, but close friends find the concept appalling. There’s nothing they like about it, so if we offered them a free cruise (if we won the lottery), they’d say thanks, but no thanks. Just like if I won tickets to the Super Bowl, I’d say no thanks (I’d actually sell them, heh). Not everybody likes the same things. I even know people who say they have no interest in travel, ever. It puzzles me, but they know what they like.

[jpgr]

2 hours ago, photo7521 said:

Lucille and Cyril are only being the only way they can be at the time of this show.

I 100% agree with you, and it's completely accurate in context for Lucille to call her patients "precious" (and for Trixie to call hers "sweetie"). My 2022 American self is bugged by it, but I'm sure if I were in 1960s Poplar I would feel differently.

[EllaWycliffe]

16 hours ago, photo7521 said:

In 1960's UK and 2022 US Black Folk still must watch what we say and how we act within certain confines. No matter how we do our job, how professional we act, we will still be accused of being condescending and arrogant aka "uppity"(sometimes another word follows). Lucille and Cyril are only being the only way they can be at the time of this show.

I don't disagree that US Black people and UK Black people still need to be really careful.

My problem is that Lucille, and to a lesser extent Cyril, are not actually facing that level of oppression in Call The Midwife. After the very first episodes introducing Lucille, no one has so much as balked a little at the notion of a black midwife attending them. No one catcalls Lucille, no one threatens Lucille, no one is even mildly off put by Lucille. Cyril in contrast seems to see *some* oppression in not being able to get the job of his choice, although he is employed and well thought of enough that he's offered a partnership in the mechanics shop... Something I felt was surprisingly liberal considering the time. Lucille and Cyril are respected members of the community.... to where I think the problem isn't that Lucille and Cyril are facing constant aggression and microaggressions due to their being black, and more that the remarkable lack of racism despite the time this is set it takes me out of the story. That's poor writing.

I'd also argue the perfection of Lucille goes beyond her work place. She is the goody good who is the best goody good ever. Never a misstep at work, beloved church goer, always super supportive of Cyril, always wise, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, and on her worst day is still super dedicated - black or white, she's cloyingly perfect. Even Barbara, the most recent cloyingly perfect character, had the occasional humorous fuck up.

It's also not helped that the actress just doesn't seem very good, in my opinion. She doesn't seem to have much range so Lucille is vaguely happy or vaguely displeased, or just bored all of the time

[Suzn]

2 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I'd also argue the perfection of Lucille goes beyond her work place. She is the goody good who is the best goody good ever. Never a misstep at work, beloved church goer, always super supportive of Cyril, always wise, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, and on her worst day is still super dedicated - black or white, she's cloyingly perfect. Even Barbara, the most recent cloyingly perfect character, had the occasional humorous fuck up.

It's also not helped that the actress just doesn't seem very good, in my opinion. She doesn't seem to have much range so Lucille is vaguely happy or vaguely displeased, or just bored all of the time

ITA.  The actress seems to be so much the same all the time.

[marceline]

Cyril: You know the rules of this hotel. Expectant mothers get their cup of tea in bed.

I loved that. I love when our midwives have someone looking out for them.

I'm just sad for how it all turned out.

[Calvada]

Re which midwife I'd select - I've never had a baby but I suspect I if I was in labor I'd take the nearest capable person and wouldn't care whether they called me precious, sweetie, lass, or anything else. 

I wonder what someone like Phyllis would get for an Old Age Pension.  I don't know how the program works in Britain.  Is it based on a person's life earnings, or does everyone get the same amount?  I thought it was very poignant when she talked about saving for old age.  She has no family to rely on, does she?  Would someone in her position not be able to consider retirement, would have to work until she physically could not?

   

[Ceindreadh]

10 hours ago, Calvada said:

Re which midwife I'd select - I've never had a baby but I suspect I if I was in labor I'd take the nearest capable person and wouldn't care whether they called me precious, sweetie, lass, or anything else. 

I wonder what someone like Phyllis would get for an Old Age Pension.  I don't know how the program works in Britain.  Is it based on a person's life earnings, or does everyone get the same amount?  I thought it was very poignant when she talked about saving for old age.  She has no family to rely on, does she?  Would someone in her position not be able to consider retirement, would have to work until she physically could not?

   

At that point in time, Phyllis would have been entitled to a contributory state pension.  AFAIK, the amount was based on how many years somebody had worked and not necessarily how much they had earned during those years.  

If she hadn't been working long enough, she would still get the non-contributory pension (probably the same amount as the minimum contributory pension).  The biggest difference between the two would be that your non-contributory pension would be reduced if you had personal savings, whereas the contributory pension wouldn't. 

[AZChristian]

Just remembered something I wanted to comment on from last week's episode.

They showed someone (Nancy?) in the community garden.  She plucked a dandelion and proceeded to blow the seeds all over the garden.

That is SUCH a no-no!!!!  Dandelions are weeds.  Gardeners do not want dandelions in their gardens.  In real life, someone would have told her in no uncertain terms to NEVER do that again.

(It happened to me, so I know!!!)

[MissLucas]

I dunno about the UK but where I live dandelions are everywhere - right now meadows are about too turn absolutely yellow. Kids blow them all the time, sometimes adults too because it's fun and if humans don't do it the wind will do it anyway. The idea of being told off for doing so  is quite hilarious. You just deal with them showing up in the garden (just did that yesterday) - some people make the best of it and use the leaves for salad.

[Cetacean]

Dandelions are some of the earliest flowers available for pollinators. They should not be looked down upon with contempt!

[EllaWycliffe]

I get AZChristian's point - my mom was always "go do that AWAY from the garden" when it came to blowing dandelions. Not forbidden but more of a "go do that on the neighbors yard, thanks"

 

[MMEButterfly]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I dunno about the UK but where I live dandelions are everywhere - right now meadows are about too turn absolutely yellow. Kids blow them all the time, sometimes adults too because it's fun and if humans don't do it the wind will do it anyway. The idea of being told off for doing so  is quite hilarious. You just deal with them showing up in the garden (just did that yesterday) - some people make the best of it and use the leaves for salad.

We always have dandelions in April. We don't have dandelions the rest of the year no matter who blows. But, I agree, what children don't blow the wind blows.

 

[eel21788]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:18 PM, Dehumidifier said:

I don't think Lucille's character comes across as condescending. More like a little too prim and proper and perfect. Almost as bad Shelagh, who has a bit of hysteria added 😉.

I think Shelagh's accent makes her sound very pretentious. I don't get that from Lucille or the others.

[eel21788]

On 4/19/2022 at 7:46 AM, Rootbeer said:

 In the US, aspirin was the major over the counter pain med in the 1960's.

Well into the mid-'70s we were given Liquaprin (a brand of liquid asprin that had a really funny aftertaste). Then tylenol was only taken by people who had a medical reason not to use asprin. It wasn't until making the association that asprin can cause Reyes' syndrome that asprin was abandoned as the first choice for children.

[EllaWycliffe]

19 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

I think Shelagh's accent makes her sound very pretentious. I don't get that from Lucille or the others.

I personally don't find it pretentious but I do find it odd. I'm not always good with accents anyway but its like somewhat Scottish but not quite Scottish, not really proper English, maybe a little Irish.... I think she is supposed to be Scottish.... I don't know, I am just always like "what IS that?"

[eel21788]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:14 PM, MartyQui said:

My mother had ‘the talk” with me when I was in 4th grade (so 9 years old).  She had a book with pictures of your anatomy, supplied by Tampax (she sent away for it), and showed me what a sanitary napkin was.  I was horrified and embarrassed.  We had the official school sex education in the sixth grade (boys were separated from girls), and there was no talk of how you dealt with your period.  So the nuns were quite progressive!  I didn’t get my period until I was 13, so it was a long time to wait to see what all the fuss was about. :)

In junior high, we had an ex-marine sargant for a PE teacher. Everybody participated in co-ed PE class unless you had a doctor's note for something like a broken leg.

When we got to high school (1976), we had an all female PE class and a female PE teacher who started the semester by telling us if we were on our periods we should still get dressed for PE, but we could sit out the strenuous activities and just do "gentle stretching" instead.

Those of us who had gone to the same junior high looked at each other in utter shock. We had no idea that your period was a valid excuse for not participating in PE!

[eel21788]

1 minute ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I personally don't find it pretentious but I do find it odd. I'm not always good with accents anyway but its like somewhat Scottish but not quite Scottish, not really proper English, maybe a little Irish.... I think she is supposed to be Scottish.... I don't know, I am just always like "what IS that?"

She just seems to use more precision when she enunciates her words. To me it sounds "High and Mighty," like people who pronounce both of the Ts separately in bottle or little.

[eel21788]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:46 AM, dargosmydaddy said:

 from the way she was trying to sneak back into Nonnatus without anyone hearing/ seeing, it seems like it would have been frowned upon there. Yet it then becomes a regular thing, judging by the later scene with the two of them in bed? (Which was just oddly staged, with both of them fully clothed and lying on the bed, over the covers, with a good gap between them... 

My impression was they were trying to show us that Trixie stayed up all night just talking with Matthew but hadn't done anything "scandalous."

[EllaWycliffe]

13 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

My impression was they were trying to show us that Trixie stayed up all night just talking with Matthew but hadn't done anything "scandalous."

THEN HOW DID THAT BABY GET IN HER BELLY? IS IT THE SECOND COMING???

Whoa... just channeled my mom there ;)

[Cetacean]

40 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I think she is supposed to be Scottish.

She is a  native of Aberdeen, Scotland.  I lot of people have trouble with deciphering that accent (especially when the speaker is from Glasgow) so she may have been told to enunciate to make her words very clear.  I don't find it pretentious, I find it quite lyrical.

Someone from Scotland speaking rapidly has me going "huh?"!

Edited April 24, 2022 by Cetacean

[eel21788]

14 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

THEN HOW DID THAT BABY GET IN HER BELLY? IS IT THE SECOND COMING???

Seeing as how I don't believe in the "first coming," I'm going to have to decline that argument. Have you thought about the possibility of desmoid tumors? 

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I personally don't find it pretentious but I do find it odd. I'm not always good with accents anyway but its like somewhat Scottish but not quite Scottish, not really proper English, maybe a little Irish.... I think she is supposed to be Scottish.... I don't know, I am just always like "what IS that?"

Laura Main was born in Aberdeen, Scotland and I think Scottish is her natural accent.  I like it.

[dargosmydaddy]

2 hours ago, eel21788 said:

My impression was they were trying to show us that Trixie stayed up all night just talking with Matthew but hadn't done anything "scandalous."

To me, that makes even less sense... She's running the risk of being judged (or worse... again, not sure what standards the midwives are held to in terms of their employment) by her coworkers, not to mention whoever in the neighborhood happens to see her arriving home in the early morning (not in uniform, so they know it wasn't a delivery), all so she could spend the night talking with her boyfriend? It would have been a perfectly reasonable conversation to have on the sofa, before he took her home (or before they actually went to bed and slept together).

[Daff]

15 hours ago, eel21788 said:

She just seems to use more precision when she enunciates her words. To me it sounds "High and Mighty," like people who pronounce both of the Ts separately in bottle or little.

You two have both stepped into my wheelhouse! My professional opinion is just this: strong Scottish accent coupled with slowed, precise, articulation for listener clarity. As for your examples of “high and mighty”, there are other words and contexts like those: mitten, patent, didn’t, kitten, etc.  It’s the tongue tip of t or d, followed by ANOTHER tongue tip sound-some people can’t combine the two using fine motor control and they end up with “mitt-ten” or “did-ent”. Neither is indicative of any deficiency or a superiority complex. I’d bet if the actress were to exclaim something in a spontaneous, excited manner only another Scott would understand her. 

[AZChristian]

16 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

THEN HOW DID THAT BABY GET IN HER BELLY? IS IT THE SECOND COMING???

Whoa... just channeled my mom there ;)

We had a "girls only" session in the 6th grade (1958ish) that was supposed to teach us about menstruation, etc.  It was so vague that after the session, I still didn't know there was any need for a male to be involved in conception. 

Seriously!  The booklet they handed out to us said, "If the egg is not fertilized, it passes out of the body and your monthly cycle continues."  There was one little detail they left out.  How did it get fertilized?????

A few months later, the daughter of a family friend got pregnant out of wedlock, and there was much whispering and acting like she should be ashamed.  I couldn't figure out why people thought she did something wrong, just because her egg got caught in the lining of her uterus and she was going to have a baby.

Yeah, I was that naive.

[EllaWycliffe]

4 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

A few months later, the daughter of a family friend got pregnant out of wedlock, and there was much whispering and acting like she should be ashamed.  I couldn't figure out why people thought she did something wrong, just because her egg got caught in the lining of her uterus and she was going to have a baby.

Yeah, I was that naive.

I laugh because it is funny but also because I can relate to it. I am from the generation of "Are You There God, It's Me Margeret" folks who learned about menstruation from that book and these same vague "classes" where male involvement in pregnancy was never mentioned. 

[DonnaMae]

21 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

THEN HOW DID THAT BABY GET IN HER BELLY? IS IT THE SECOND COMING???

You do know that the actress, not the character, was pregnant?

[EllaWycliffe]

36 minutes ago, DonnaMae said:

You do know that the actress, not the character, was pregnant?

Yup :) You do know that was the joke right?

Edited April 25, 2022 by EllaWycliffe

[DonnaMae]

6 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Yup :) You do know that was the joke right?

I do now.

[Leeds]

On 4/24/2022 at 1:01 PM, eel21788 said:

I think Shelagh's accent makes her sound very pretentious. I don't get that from Lucille or the others.

I'm not sure why her accent would be seen as pretentious.  It's authentic to where her character comes from.  She's not portraying an upper class Lady Mary Crowley type and personally I love her soft tone.

On 4/24/2022 at 2:37 PM, Suzn said:

Laura Main was born in Aberdeen, Scotland and I think Scottish is her natural accent.  I like it.

Exactly. (Although Scottish per se isn't really an accent - there are lots of variations.)

[anna0852]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:31 AM, katisha said:

I loved loved, LOVED the scenes with Nancy and Sister Frances when they were going through what the young girls had written for the suggestion box (apart from the seirous issue of poor Deborah - in my head she had her name spelled like mine - and the NSPCC).  It's wonderful that Sister Frances can interact with someone who's her age and isn't a nun.

I feel like it's a (lovely!) younger version of the friendship between Sr Julianne and Shelagh.

[kassa]

On 4/18/2022 at 11:35 AM, kwnyc said:

And it broke me up when Phyllis cried outside the bathroom door. She was roommates with both Barbara and Lucille, so she was close to both of them. I hope she has a BLAST in her motor-coach tour of Europe. (Though really, on a bus for 6 weeks with a bunch of strangers...could end up fraught.) And I'm VERY glad Miss Higgins didn't go. We've seen that she can be very fussy about her routines.

Isn't Phyllis a vegetarian or something? Might be interesting to see what she eats on a motor coach tour of Europe! (Though by '67 vegetarianism was much more of a thing, I imagine bus tours didn't frequent a lot of hippie establishments.)

Phyllis' reaction to the pension made me wonder what the deal is at Nonnatus for the non-religious. If room and board is included in her wages, permitting her to save the rest of her paycheck, she could have been building up a good nest egg (which would be needed, because if she were unable to work eventually, the place at Nonnatus would be gone and she'd have to find something). So the money, while wonderfully generous, divided over 20 years of not working (presuming she "retired" in her early 60s) would be more of a cushion than something she could squander. (I don't consider the trip squandering - that's the sort of luxury she could now afford whereas before every penny had to be socked away)

On 4/21/2022 at 11:10 AM, EllaWycliffe said:

I don't disagree that US Black people and UK Black people still need to be really careful.

My problem is that Lucille, and to a lesser extent Cyril, are not actually facing that level of oppression in Call The Midwife. After the very first episodes introducing Lucille, no one has so much as balked a little at the notion of a black midwife attending them. No one catcalls Lucille, no one threatens Lucille, no one is even mildly off put by Lucille. Cyril in contrast seems to see *some* oppression in not being able to get the job of his choice, although he is employed and well thought of enough that he's offered a partnership in the mechanics shop... Something I felt was surprisingly liberal considering the time. Lucille and Cyril are respected members of the community.... to where I think the problem isn't that Lucille and Cyril are facing constant aggression and microaggressions due to their being black, and more that the remarkable lack of racism despite the time this is set it takes me out of the story. That's poor writing.

It's a balancing act more than bad writing, I think. Black characters deserve more storylines than just the trauma of racism. Yes, they'd be dealing with it pretty constantly, but they also would be falling in love, balancing career and homelife, missing family far away, etc.  I think it's a plus for the show to have us know the characters through those storylines.

It's way too common in "entertainment' that the gay character has to be beaten up, the woman has to be raped, etc - while not showing the every day relatable lives of people who just happen to be black/gay/women. Call the Midwife does a pretty good job of introducing dramatic elements through the one-off characters while showing the medical staff and their neighbors as regular people going through daily life brushing up against the issue of the week.

[Chewy101]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:34 AM, Rootbeer said:

By the late 60's, a woman in her 30's like Trixie, was more likely than not to be sexually active.  Even those with strong religious backgrounds had premarital sex more often than not back then.

And she definitely did not have a religious background. For all of the knocked up single women they deal with, they should make Trixie pregnant instead of sending her back to Portofino. Let's see how Nonnattus deals with THAT. 

Monica Joan has got to go. She is so blasphemous as a nun and she rambles endlessly. They kill off the wrong characters.