S14.E04: Bliss, Brunches, and Brawls...Oh My!

[greeneyedscorpio]

On 1/27/2022 at 12:03 PM, bichonblitz said:

 

Regarding our lovely experts. Who on this planet would think a 38 year old unemployed vagabond who never keeps a job for very long is a great candidate for marriage and children? Because he said so? 

 

 

As far as I recall, this was never said about Steve.  As far as we've been told, he had a job and lost it due to Covid and is now freelancing.  There hasn't been any talk about him not keeping jobs for long.  At least that I've heard?  

[greeneyedscorpio]

On 1/27/2022 at 12:18 PM, Meowwww said:

Exactly.  On the main episode, Alyssa wouldn’t talk to him unless it wasn’t filmed.  And she made a big deal about how he called her a liar on film gasp!!!!!
 

 

And he only answered her question of, "are you calling me a liar?"  If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

[gingerandcloves]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:07 AM, Blissfool said:

 

But I think he did get what he wanted. He would have been perfectly happy with her, if it wasn't for her reaction to his looks.

I just don't get why she says she's uncomfortable with them staying in the same room. I wish producers could force her to. It's not like it's unexpected when you marry someone. I wonder if the show pays for her separate room.

 

On 1/28/2022 at 10:49 AM, Empress1 said:

All of Alyssa’s behavior boils down to her thinking Chris is ugly but knowing she can’t say that on TV without looking bad (which: too late, and I’m sure he knows what she thinks at this point). She doesn’t want to be anywhere near him but she can’t say “you’re ugly and I don’t want to share any space with you, especially intimate bedroom space” so she throws out the word “uncomfortable.” Which is also fucked up because it makes it sound like he’s a physical threat to her safety, which he clearly is not.

I just keep thinking back to the "honeymoon suite" at the hotel, and the scene of Alyssa going in and taking all her luggage to a separate room. I hope Chris didn't have to stay there alone with all the rose petals and balloons and champagne...that would be majorly depressing. What an awful start to a marriage.

[bichonblitz]

45 minutes ago, greeneyedscorpio said:

As far as I recall, this was never said about Steve.  As far as we've been told, he had a job and lost it due to Covid and is now freelancing.  There hasn't been any talk about him not keeping jobs for long.  At least that I've heard?  

The experts knew he was unemployed. He shouldn't have been a candidate at all. Not a great start to a relationship. Then he said to Noi something to the effect of "If and when I decide to get a job". 

[Blissfool]

I just watched The After Party and heard Olajuwon describe how Lindsey made fun of his shoes. Lol. I think Lindsey sees that Olajuwon is vain and full of himself and she's trying to pull him down a notch or ten. Not saying this is acceptable behavior on Lindsey's part, just think that is her m.o., being that she's constantly targeting him.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Blissfool said:

I just watched The After Party and heard Olajuwon describe how Lindsey made fun of his shoes. Lol. I think Lindsey sees that Olajuwon is vain and full of himself and she's trying to pull him down a notch or ten. Not saying this is acceptable behavior on Lindsey's part, just think that is her m.o., being that she's constantly targeting him.

That’s stuff you do when you have an established friendship with someone and you know you can throw jabs back and forth. This group just met. If someone I’d met yesterday told me my shoes looked cheap or were ugly or whatever I’d be like “what is your problem?”

[Kira53]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

The experts knew he was unemployed. He shouldn't have been a candidate at all. Not a great start to a relationship. Then he said to Noi something to the effect of "If and when I decide to get a job". 

He doesn’t have to be an employee, ie. “have a job” .  He can be a self employed consultant.  Sales engineer is a great career that pays very well.  You can work from anywhere. I suspect he made a few good tech investments and often sales engineers get stock options.  Editing is making this a problem the way Austin not saying, “I love you” was.  Noi and Steve are well matched.  Lucky for them. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

17 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

It sounded like Lindsay went in assuming these were uncouth, inexperienced travelers and she was going to do them a solid by telling them to speak Spanish. Olaj's initial response - I'm a grown adult and I know how to behave when I travel, was spot on. It sounds like that didn't shut Lindsay up either.

Why can't people just ignore other people?

Maybe Lindsey thought she was providing a useful suggestion based on her having been there many times, and maybe she was just being an ass.  Either way, what does it matter?  They'd just met, and Olajuwon wasn't married to her, so just let it go. 

It sounds like she was annoying on the plane, but again, he's not married to her and he's not going to have to be spending a lot of time with her while he's on his honeymoon, so ignore it.

Don't people just secretly roll their eyes any more?

6 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

If someone I’d met yesterday told me my shoes looked cheap or were ugly or whatever I’d be like “what is your problem?”

I'd assume they were either trying to be funny or just an asshole.  If I thought a reply was warranted, I'd probably say "Well I like 'em," or maybe even, "I know!  They're the worst."  The last thing I'd do is have a confrontation over it.  There's a chance that's what they want, so why give it to them?

2 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

Sales engineer is a great career that pays very well.  

What is a sales engineer?  Or what makes someone a sales engineer?  I understand mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer--they design and implement mechanical and electrical systems.  How does someone design and implement a sale in a way that makes him not just a salesman but a sales engineer?

Is this one of those jobs people have these days that I don't understand what they do?  I pine for the days of teachers and bookkeepers and secretaries and factory workers.

[lu1535]

Did anyone else notice this smirk after Chris gave in to staying in another room? Editing? Lighthearted moment? Satisfaction? I wanted to trip her.

[Booger666]

@StatisticalOutlier In my experience, with technology products there is a sales team of 3 people: the relationship manager (manages overall customer experience), business development manager (handles pricing, contract, etc) and the sales engineer (has the best understanding of the product and can answer technical questions). 

According to linkedin he averages around 3-5yrs at a job.  And, he’s pretty good at marketing himself: https://stephenmoy.com

Edited January 29, 2022 by Booger666

[JapMo]

Alyssa reminds me of Ashley from Atlanta, who married David.  She was caught telling her friend in the bathroom at the reception that she didn't think he was attractive.  From that point forward, she never lifted a finger to try to get to know him or try to make the marriage work.  We found out later she was only in their house with him when it was time to film...she was living somewhere else.

Ashley thought she was hot stuff...too good for David.  David was very popular with the audience and they sided with him.  Ashley found out just exactly what the online community thought of her behavior.  It probably took her years to stop being labeled as that person who was so mean on TV.  I don't wish it on her, but Alyssa is heading straight down that same path.

[seacliffsal]

Well, I believe (but may be wrong) that Ashley (of Ashley and David) went on the show to make an ex-boyfriend jealous.  Perhaps Alyssa is trying the same thing?

[JapMo]

20 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I want to like Lindsay. She worked as a hospice nurse and it just takes a really special soul to do that work. Plus I am really growing to like Mark and I think he really wants a good marriage and a solid partner, so I want this to work out for him. But every time I see Lindsay, I like her less.

Sorry, but this is long. 

I want to like her too, and I'm sure Lindsay is the model of professionalism at work.  She has a big heart and a lot of empathy and can relate to hurt and sick people.  But here's my prediction if they stay together. 

Mark will lose all his friends.  Slowly but surely friends and even relatives will pull away, and when pinned down will tell him they love him, but can't take Lindsay.  She will offend all his guy friends' wives.  She will constantly embarrass him in public.  She'll humiliate him in front of his co-workers.

I strongly feel she's been loud and smart-alecky since grade school, and she suffered for it.  She's been talked to, scolded, got in trouble, punished, probably even spanked sometimes, and as the years went on, and the relationship she dreamed about with her mother never materialized, she got bitter.  She's hardened her heart against pain with booze and this flippant attitude that what you see is what you get and if you don't like it there's the door.  

Problem is, most people take the door.  And because she doesn't understand why, she becomes more and more abrasive, and obnoxious.  Here's where it becomes hard for me....I am positive she has been instructed over and over again how to behave in public.  And for some reason, she can't do it.  Does she want to act that way...does she like pissing people off?  Is she just seeking attention when she tells a total stranger their shoes are cheap?  I don't know the clinical term for what's going on with her, but you can tell she's unhappy.  Crying in the hotel room when people call her on her bad behavior.    

But now comes a man who might actually be her knight in shining armor...a man that will actually protect her and defend her.  No one has ever done that for her, not even her father.  But she's going to ruin it if she doesn't get help, and I fear even with help it's a one in a million chance they will stay together.  Lindsay needs intensive therapy.  I'm sure she's seen school counselors and psychiatrists before.  She's angry at her mom, her dad, her brother, her friends....and she can't let all that anger go.  So no matter what Mark does, I just think she can't give in their relationship...at this point she can only take.  And eventually, for his own sanity, Mark will give up.

[Airy2021]

4 hours ago, lu1535 said:

Did anyone else notice this smirk after Chris gave in to staying in another room? Editing? Lighthearted moment? Satisfaction? I wanted to trip her.

She really is the worst. Why even go on a show like this if you are so hung up on looks??? Why didn’t she emphasize to the matchmakers her need to be with someone with perfectly straight teeth if it meant so much to her??? She was such a bad choice because she is beyond closed minded about the situation. She saw him, thought he was ugly and checked out and has zero interest in even getting to know the poor guy and giving him any chance at all. Cant she at least attempt to befriend him and be nice??? Look, it’s a crappy situation. I wouldn’t have been attracted to Chris either but I’m at least a nice person who would show some humanity and be forward, respectful and wouldn’t gaslight him into thinking he’s some kind of monster when it’s really all my problem. She should never have signed up for this and I wish she would just leave and be done with the show. Let’s cut the charades. It’s not gonna work. I’m hoping we don’t have to suffer through a season watching them dislike each other like Jake and Haley. Don’t waste our time!!

[ChiMama]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:57 PM, gingerandcloves said:

I'm not convinced Steve's apparent joblessness is the issue everyone is making it out to be. I agree that he needs to have some sort of plan for the future and some financial stability, but I don't think taking a break from the rat race is a huge red flag. It's like every couple has to have some type of problem, and the producers have picked Steve's employment to be it for the season

Agreed. He got laid off from what was likely a pretty intense job, he likely had $ from severance, etc., there was a pandemic (affecting jobs/hiring), so he took off and traveled for a few months on what looked like a fairly low-budget jaunt. Then he comes back, and as he even said, got involved in “this” (MAFS) so he decided to wait & see how it all played out. Once selected, it would be difficult to get hired having to explain filming/time commitments to a prospective/new employer (difficult enough for an existing one), along with the notoriety this show/its cast can bring. He’ll be fine. It’s all fine. Totally manufactured drama.

[Gator Stud]

On 1/27/2022 at 4:50 AM, Booger666 said:

I’m really impressed with how Mark handled the situation.  He is coming across as very kind and concerned for others.  I hope he finds some happiness because it seems he’s being doing a lot of caretaking of others.

I am growing to strongly dislike Olajuwon.  He kept cutting Katina off and talking over her.  The way he responded to her friend at brunch was rude and immature.  If Olajuwon disagreed with what the friend said then have a dialogue and refute it, but don’t demand a “stand with me or against me” approach.  He comes across as very shallow and bland.  It’s like he’s gotten by all his adult life on his body (his face ain’t much to look at) and athletic ability.  There have been multiple episodes and he hasn’t shown anything likable about him.  It’s kind of pathetic.

He didnt do anything wrong but took part of the blame, apologizing for the team.  He made the other couples feel comfortable.  It was the perfect balance.  He is a stand up guy.  He looks better on Unfiltered.  Dont get on Hurricane Katrina's bad side.

[kristen111]

This show is trickery.  If they all got along, would we watch?  I doubt it.  Viewers want to see train wrecks.  They are picked for that.

Lindsey:  What Mother doesn’t want to see her child?  Lindsey’s mother probably went thru hell and high water to have a relationship with her, then gave up.  I know a mother that has given up on her daughter.  The girl took advantage and didn’t follow the rules of the house.  She took advantage and was a horror.  The Mother gave up.  Lindsey may of given up already.  She works at hospice, which is probably making her more depressed.  Mark is her answer only for now. She needs therapy ASAP.  He can’t hold her hand forever sad to say.  He deserves a good and happy life.  How long can he clean up her mess?   When have we seen this show where everyone gets along?  Never.  That’s why it’s a hit. It’s my favorite show, dammit.

[Gator Stud]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:50 AM, Cramps said:

Lindsey was in her larger than life mode, which she does when she needs attention (most of the time) or is under stress. She was loud, possibly drinking,

Possibly???  When is she not drinking? 

[kristen111]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:50 AM, Cramps said:

After watching the show and the after-show (a must watch this week! —good job Keisha!), my take on the airplane fight we didn’t get to see is that Lindsey was in her larger than life mode, which she does when she needs attention (most of the time) or is under stress. She was loud, possibly drinking, and verbally poking, prodding and annoying everyone around her with her obnoxious behavior on the plane. She pushed Olijawon too far with her repeated rudeness (which she probably thought was entertaining) and he couldn’t take it anymore and told her off, sending Lindsey into combative mode (she supposedly -according to the after show- tried to get him to fight her at the airport), which understandably brought Katina into things, escalating it even further.

Lindsey, who can dish out a lot, seems like she actually can’t take very much back, and went into melt down, leaving poor Mark to clean up her mess. (He was really impressive.) And probably not for the last time… poor Mark. The shark looks shellshocked whenever she is discussed on the aftershow. 

So far my takeaway from the show is that Chris and Mark are going to have a fair number of women interested in them after this. (And Chris is going to get a some new real estate clients).

Alyssa could have tried to begin redeeming her behavior on the aftershow, but she made things worse. 

During the casting show, I loathed Olijuwan and thought his relationship would inevitably be a complete disaster. But now that I’ve seen more of him, and judging by their behavior on the aftershow, he and Katina seem to still really like each other, so I’m curious to see how their relationship develops. So far they seem to not only be attracted to each other, but also to both be trying to focus on the positives and not dwell on negatives in each other. 

Someone above said that Jasmina seems to be repeatedly looking to find faults with Michael. It does seem like that. It’s ironic in that she’s complaining that he’s too negative. 

 

Every time Alissa walks off the screen, the show should take $500 off her pay.

[kristen111]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:50 AM, Cramps said:

After watching the show and the after-show (a must watch this week! —good job Keisha!), my take on the airplane fight we didn’t get to see is that Lindsey was in her larger than life mode, which she does when she needs attention (most of the time) or is under stress. She was loud, possibly drinking, and verbally poking, prodding and annoying everyone around her with her obnoxious behavior on the plane. She pushed Olijawon too far with her repeated rudeness (which she probably thought was entertaining) and he couldn’t take it anymore and told her off, sending Lindsey into combative mode (she supposedly -according to the after show- tried to get him to fight her at the airport), which understandably brought Katina into things, escalating it even further.

Lindsey, who can dish out a lot, seems like she actually can’t take very much back, and went into melt down, leaving poor Mark to clean up her mess. (He was really impressive.) And probably not for the last time… poor Mark. The shark looks shellshocked whenever she is discussed on the aftershow. 

So far my takeaway from the show is that Chris and Mark are going to have a fair number of women interested in them after this. (And Chris is going to get a some new real estate clients).

Alyssa could have tried to begin redeeming her behavior on the aftershow, but she made things worse. 

During the casting show, I loathed Olijuwan and thought his relationship would inevitably be a complete disaster. But now that I’ve seen more of him, and judging by their behavior on the aftershow, he and Katina seem to still really like each other, so I’m curious to see how their relationship develops. So far they seem to not only be attracted to each other, but also to both be trying to focus on the positives and not dwell on negatives in each other. 

Someone above said that Jasmina seems to be repeatedly looking to find faults with Michael. It does seem like that. It’s ironic in that she’s complaining that he’s too negative. 

 

It’s very weird.  I watched the show intently, and never saw the fight with Lindsay.  The very next day, everyone was talking about it, and magically it was on.  WTF ?  How could that be?  Maybe east coast was different than west coast?  Or something happened in between?

Edited January 30, 2022 by kristen111

[kristen111]

I’m watching again for the second time.  How many times does Alyssa push back that hair of hers?  300?

[MagicCat]

Chris doesn't realize it, but he dodged a bullet.  I remember in one of the kick-off episodes Alyssa said that she's "traditional" and thinks the man should be the provider.  She's a lazy ass who doesn't want to work and thinks that a man needs to pay for the privilege of being married to her dour self.  She wants expensive things like horses and acreage and she's so dumb that she doesn't realize that a hard-working realtor could make that happen.

I wouldn't say she's a butterface but I don't see her as a 8 or 9.  If she were fifteen years older maybe - but girlfriend is not aging well.  Even with all the procedures she looks way older than she is.  She seems to be what I have heard called high-school pretty.  Pretty in high school and thinks she's still just as pretty - even though she isn't.  People with this syndrome have never had to develop their personality or intellect and it's a shock to them when those things are needed in the real world once their looks aren't the same.

Edited January 30, 2022 by MagicCat

[Blissfool]

2 hours ago, kristen111 said:

It’s very weird.  I watched the show intently, and never saw the fight with Lindsay.  The very next day, everyone was talking about it, and magically it was on.  WTF ?  How could that be?  Maybe east coast was different than west coast?  Or something happened in between?

I'm not sure I understand your post...The fight on the plane was never shown on the episode. All the details that are posted are just from what the couples have described on camera.

 

That being said, I'm always skeptical about the drama that happens off-camera. There seems to be a similar situation every season, in which the viewer is not shown what happened that caused strife. Hayley & Jake. Mindy & Zach. Kate & Luke. Etc...I'm convinced it's made-up or extremely exaggerated for ratings.

[bichonblitz]

On 1/27/2022 at 3:57 PM, gingerandcloves said:

I'm not convinced Steve's apparent joblessness is the issue everyone is making it out to be.

It's only an issue if the person he married thinks it is. She talked about it several times already and it's only the honeymoon. It sounds like an issue. 

[Yeah No]

On 1/28/2022 at 9:29 AM, Rightside said:

Alyssa has season 3 Atlanta, Ashley vibes. She is treating Chris the same as Ashley treated David.

There will never be a drunken one night together for Alyssa and Chris.

Actually, I think Alyssa is treating Chris worse than Ashley treated David.  Ashley just straight up ignored/avoided David without all the drama, tears and walking off in a huff as if the very sight of him was insulting to her, like Alyssa is doing with Chris.  Ashley just checked out and did nothing but check her cell phone all day.

On 1/29/2022 at 1:22 AM, Arthur Jury said:

Hi, you are too generous on ACE's looks scale.  Don't know where you are, but in So Cal ACE is at best a 5-6 (big nose, uneven complexion, receding and multiple chins, skinny eyes but not toned, white but uneven teeth).  Factor in her haughty negative attitude and demeanor and she falls on the "attractiveness scale". Chris is a 5 and average guy here too and has a calm demeanor with good sales / listening type communication skills.  

Yeah, if Alyssa is an 8 or a 9 at 30 I was a perfect 10 at 50 and I have the photos to prove it!

[Yeah No]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:37 PM, Empress1 said:

That’s stuff you do when you have an established friendship with someone and you know you can throw jabs back and forth. This group just met. If someone I’d met yesterday told me my shoes looked cheap or were ugly or whatever I’d be like “what is your problem?”

Re: Lindsey, that's what I said about her earlier in this thread.  She is trying to get away with the cool kwips and jabs that people much more familiar with each other can get away with but it's just not going to be received well by people that are strangers.  They don't know where she's coming from.  And I'm not sure there isn't an undertone of hostility in there somewhere too.  It's hard to say.  Whatever her motivation, she is socially compromised and not able to read the room, probably made worse by alcohol.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Blissfool said:

That being said, I'm always skeptical about the drama that happens off-camera. There seems to be a similar situation every season, in which the viewer is not shown what happened that caused strife. Hayley & Jake. Mindy & Zach. Kate & Luke. Etc...I'm convinced it's made-up or extremely exaggerated for ratings.

Me too. I call producer shenanigans on stuff that isn't shown on the episode and it turns into a he said/she said situation.  I fully accept that Lindsey has problems and can be inappropriate but there are 2 sides to the story and we're not really seeing either one.  Knowing this show I think it would use anything it can to exaggerate things for drama.  And the participants have to keep their mouths shut about it because of the NDAs they sign.  

[Yeah No]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:50 AM, LuvMyShows said:

On 1/29/2022 at 9:11 AM, Kira53 said:

Why would such an attractive young lady only have had long-distance relationships??? You guess. I’d love to know what other people think would cause someone to only have a long distance relationships.  I question whether she’s actually ever had a romantic relationship because long distance is fantasy relationship not because a person doesn’t exist but relationships are lived day by day.  

Yes, it is very curious, and the nature of a not day-to-day relationship is very different.  I'd like to know how many relationships we're talking about, and how she came to be in them.  For example, did she go to school in another state, and have a relationship with someone after they left school?  Did she meet someone locally who then moved away?  If she's only talking 2, I guess that's sort of understandable, but it's still odd that there weren't any that were local.

According to psychologists I've read, people that exclusively get involved with people that live at a distance have commitment and intimacy issues and deliberately (often without realizing it) choose people they can't get that close to because they can't tolerate being that close to someone without feeling hemmed in and suffocated.  And they may have difficulty living with the real day to day issues of a relationship, preferring to live in some kind of romantic fantasy that they can go to when they feel like it but put away when they start to feel too claustrophobic.

From pretty much week one I have been side eyeing Jasmina because she comes off to me as too stuck up and distant to be able to handle what it takes to be married.  She's another one that will likely sabotage the relationship because of her issues.  I felt that she was trying to find something wrong with Michael based on what his family said about him.  She doesn't strike me as the most positive person either but she would get down on Michael because his family said he can go into things with a negative attitude.  Well if she looked in the mirror she might realize that by doing that SHE is the one going into the marriage with a negative attitude.  The pot calls the kettle black.  Just my opinion.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

On 1/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, Gator Stud said:

Karens are like the woman who called the cop on the Harvard bro watching birds, or the woman harassing the black kid in her neighborhood for simply existing in their neighborhood. There is normally a racial component to it.  Lyndsey is a drunk politically correct Liberal who wants to tell people to speak Spanish, but doesn't understand that Puertorriqueños speak both English and Spanish, and Spanglish.

I agree with you about the Karen definition but I'm not sure about Lindsey's motivations here.  Also, there seems to be some disagreement on how much of the population in PR speaks English.  Surveys cited on Wikipedia based on census records say only 26% speak English while other sources say it's something like 50%.  I still think she was either trying in her misguided way to come off as the "expert that wants to help people" since she's already been to PR several times, or maybe is coming from some kind of prejudicially motivated "white savior complex" or a bit of both.  I don't really know.

[Yeah No]

22 hours ago, JapMo said:

Sorry, but this is long. 

I want to like her too, and I'm sure Lindsay is the model of professionalism at work.  She has a big heart and a lot of empathy and can relate to hurt and sick people.  But here's my prediction if they stay together. 

Mark will lose all his friends.  Slowly but surely friends and even relatives will pull away, and when pinned down will tell him they love him, but can't take Lindsay.  She will offend all his guy friends' wives.  She will constantly embarrass him in public.  She'll humiliate him in front of his co-workers.

I strongly feel she's been loud and smart-alecky since grade school, and she suffered for it.  She's been talked to, scolded, got in trouble, punished, probably even spanked sometimes, and as the years went on, and the relationship she dreamed about with her mother never materialized, she got bitter.  She's hardened her heart against pain with booze and this flippant attitude that what you see is what you get and if you don't like it there's the door.  

Problem is, most people take the door.  And because she doesn't understand why, she becomes more and more abrasive, and obnoxious.  Here's where it becomes hard for me....I am positive she has been instructed over and over again how to behave in public.  And for some reason, she can't do it.  Does she want to act that way...does she like pissing people off?  Is she just seeking attention when she tells a total stranger their shoes are cheap?  I don't know the clinical term for what's going on with her, but you can tell she's unhappy.  Crying in the hotel room when people call her on her bad behavior.    

But now comes a man who might actually be her knight in shining armor...a man that will actually protect her and defend her.  No one has ever done that for her, not even her father.  But she's going to ruin it if she doesn't get help, and I fear even with help it's a one in a million chance they will stay together.  Lindsay needs intensive therapy.  I'm sure she's seen school counselors and psychiatrists before.  She's angry at her mom, her dad, her brother, her friends....and she can't let all that anger go.  So no matter what Mark does, I just think she can't give in their relationship...at this point she can only take.  And eventually, for his own sanity, Mark will give up.

This.... every word of it.  And Lindsey is unfortunately locked into a pattern of repeating the bad behavior and subsequent scolding and punishing over and over again because it's the only "love" she's probably ever known.  It's like she's locked into the "terrible twos" for her entire life.  Pushing the boundaries and getting slapped, over and over again, only making herself feel worse and worse.  I don't know if even years of therapy can help someone with such an ingrained self defeating problem that likely goes back to the time they were a baby.  Mark can only do so much to help her out of the pattern.  Even he has his limits and rightly so and if she does that with him enough he won't be able to be the punching bag forever and will react negatively, thus giving into the pattern.  

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

people that exclusively get involved with people that live at a distance have commitment and intimacy issues and deliberately (often without realizing it) choose people they can't get that close to because they can't tolerate being that close to someone without feeling hemmed in and suffocated.

Jasmina is the one who had both biological parents abandon her, so she may have a fear of getting too close to people lest they do the same. It's a very good thing that her stepmother stepped up to raise her and her siblings.

[gingerandcloves]

Back to the airplane incident, I see Lindsey as someone with a good heart and intentions, but no filter, amplified by alcohol, and with an attitude of "Take me as I am; if you don't like me, eff you." And of course, most people are going to be turned off by her, and that just reinforces her attitude. I do think Lindsey was the most to blame in the situation, constantly poking the bear. I hesitate to say it was racially-motivated, I hope it wasn't. I see it more as she considers herself the expert on PR and was showing off. But we also saw Olajuwon get really prickly during the brunch when K's friend questioned his intentions. So he may be the type to take offense quickly. However, I do give him credit for accepting Mark's apology, and for being open to smoothing things over and not carrying a grudge. 

[Racj82]

On 1/29/2022 at 4:18 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

Why can't people just ignore other people?

Maybe Lindsey thought she was providing a useful suggestion based on her having been there many times, and maybe she was just being an ass.  Either way, what does it matter?  They'd just met, and Olajuwon wasn't married to her, so just let it go. 

It sounds like she was annoying on the plane, but again, he's not married to her and he's not going to have to be spending a lot of time with her while he's on his honeymoon, so ignore it.

Don't people just secretly roll their eyes any more?

You are saying this about a person who had to be admonished by flight attendants on the plane for her behavior. Just her. Also have you seen Lyndsey at all? What makes you think rolling your eyes and saying ok cool was going to work? And Olajuwan saying essentially mind your own business should have been the end of it. The responsibility was on her to move on since he didn't want to engage anymore.

Lastly, people shouldn't have to deal with people like Lyndsey in the first place. She thinks she's the funniest person in the world. She needs to be center of attention. Not everyone wants or should have to deal with that. Part of the problem is that there is no just ignoring someone like her. Then she will start needling you about ignoring her or being a baby. I'm sure most of us have dealt with this you many times. I've dealt with people at work (if I'm being honest it's usually women) who while a argument or disagreement may start up, there is no ending it. Ignoring just doesn't cut it.

Random example. 

One night pizza was ordered for people at my job by our managers. When people can eat it differs because of different job functions. One of the women, who I was cool with, grabbed two whole pies and started to walk out. I said hey come on. You can't do that. All the people outside and certain people on the road (I'm a courier) haven't eaten yet. It's not right. There is no more coming in. She instantly blew up. Saying that others did it so she can too. I said they weren't right to do it either. You are here I'm just asking you to not take two whole pies. I don't even remember what she kept saying but I eventually said never mind. Do what you want. I'll leave it alone. She went on to keep yelling, walk outside the break room still yelling. I only yelled once to say could you stop. I said never mind. It's done because she wouldn't stop.

I can't stand people like Lyndsey. O has many faults and Katina really should let it go for her own happiness. But, Lyndsey can kindly fuck off too.

[Lindz]

Jasmina went too far saying Michael's plain coffee was nasty. She wouldn't like it if he said that to her. I hope she doesn't say anything like that again.

[Racj82]

2 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Jasmina went too far saying Michael's plain coffee was nasty. She wouldn't like it if he said that to her. I hope she doesn't say anything like that again.

I think that's a natural reaction most people have to black coffee. I'm sure he's used to it and I don't think that is much of big deal at all. It was just banter.

On Lyndsey being a "Karen"

Like many terms, I feel that it at equal points overused and misunderstood by some.

I get why people see the situation on the plane the way they do though.

You have a white woman trying tell people of color how they should conduct themselves in a location she is not a part of populated by people of color she does not belong to. She is taking it upon herself to insert herself in business that is not hers. Very Karen like. Faux wokeness which is silly when you are going to a place frequently visited by tourists. Of course, the have bilingual people there. Also, if they can't really speak the language, how the hell can the other couple control that?

Then, she won't let it go and fuels a scene on the plane. Also doing all of this unmasked which is all very Karen like.

Lastly, we later see her now on the sensitive tip crying about how a black man came at her and she didn't feel safe. Surrounded by people, staff etc. Not that you can't get hurt in those circumstances. One could also be triggered by a man just shouting in your direction.

All of this, in a bubble, doesn't mean she was being a Karen. But, all of the things I pointed out are loaded with situations that created the Karen terminology. The sympathetic tears after you fucked up. Potentially playing the victim. Shouting in public and needing to be addressed. It's all the ingredients for a genuine Karen even it ultimately isn't the case here.

Personally I just think she is a I keep real/I have no filter type that is it's own kind of shut fuck up without her being racist or prejudiced in any way.

[Lindz]

A "fight" between different spouses before even boarding the bus at the honeymoon locale, another BAD first! 😅😂 I wonder if it completely overshadowed Alyssa & Chris. 😅

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I can't stand people like Lyndsey.

Neither can I.  So I ignore them.

[Racj82]

17 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Neither can I.  So I ignore them.

That's nice. So do I. We don't always have that luxury. Areas like a plane for instance doesn't help when it comes to ignoring.

[JenE4]

7 hours ago, Lindz said:

Jasmina went too far saying Michael's plain coffee was nasty. She wouldn't like it if he said that to her. I hope she doesn't say anything like that again.

Is his name Michael Starbucks? Michael Folgers? With all of the insults being thrown around this episode, how is this one the personal affront that went too far?

[kristen111]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:23 PM, greeneyedscorpio said:

And he only answered her question of, "are you calling me a liar?"  If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

This walking off the show should not be allowed.  We are here to see and hear people, not see them walk away.  Why not stomp her feet and cry already, like she’s probably been doing her whole life.  Bet she told her Father “You sit here in the back while I walk up the aisle by myself”.

[kristen111]

11 hours ago, gingerandcloves said:

Back to the airplane incident, I see Lindsey as someone with a good heart and intentions, but no filter, amplified by alcohol, and with an attitude of "Take me as I am; if you don't like me, eff you." And of course, most people are going to be turned off by her, and that just reinforces her attitude. I do think Lindsey was the most to blame in the situation, constantly poking the bear. I hesitate to say it was racially-motivated, I hope it wasn't. I see it more as she considers herself the expert on PR and was showing off. But we also saw Olajuwon get really prickly during the brunch when K's friend questioned his intentions. So he may be the type to take offense quickly. However, I do give him credit for accepting Mark's apology, and for being open to smoothing things over and not carrying a grudge. 

I really think Lindsey drinks too much.  She has a depressing stressful job, and alcohol helps her go into a better place …. for the moment.  On the other hand, some people who overdrink go to sleep, or shut up.  Not in her case.  She gets combatative and belligerent.  Mark has his hands full and will get disgusted.

, 

[Retired at last]

On 1/30/2022 at 7:43 AM, kristen111 said:

 I watched the show intently, and never saw the fight with Lindsay.  The very next day, everyone was talking about it, and magically it was on.

We didn't really get to see it, or the flight attendants telling her to sit down and pull up her mask. For whatever reason, and I hope it isn't racially motivated, she decided to share what she knew with O. He didn't appreciate her "help" and it became a big deal. She over drank and over-reacted. She and Mark will get to have a real honeymoon and not have to share everything with the other couples, which should be fine. Group honeymoons are ridiculous. I think she will have more problems with Katina if they are in a group setting again.

[Ilovepie]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:37 PM, Empress1 said:

That’s stuff you do when you have an established friendship with someone and you know you can throw jabs back and forth. This group just met. If someone I’d met yesterday told me my shoes looked cheap or were ugly or whatever I’d be like “what is your problem?”

This. I would have just said "Wow. Rude. I don't recall asking for your opinion."

On 1/29/2022 at 3:22 PM, JapMo said:

Ashley thought she was hot stuff...too good for David.  David was very popular with the audience and they sided with him.  Ashley found out just exactly what the online community thought of her behavior.  It probably took her years to stop being labeled as that person who was so mean on TV.  I don't wish it on her, but Alyssa is heading straight down that same path.

I was one of those people dragging Mustashely through out that season, but I think she got a smidge of vindication and the shine came off David when he did that follow up dating show and acted a total clown. Plus his arrest record that came out after the show aired. I don't think either is a prize at this point.

I think Alyssa is more like Molly - stuck up and mean for no reason other than they think they are hot stuff and entitled to treat people like that.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Ilovepie

[Elizzikra]

Quote

She has a depressing stressful job, and alcohol helps her go into a better place

I don't think we know what her job is. It was described as "healthcare project manager" I think. She said she had worked in hospice for many years but not that she was still doing that.

[glitterpussy]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:56 PM, JapMo said:

Here's where it becomes hard for me....I am positive she has been instructed over and over again how to behave in public.  And for some reason, she can't do it.  Does she want to act that way...does she like pissing people off?  Is she just seeking attention when she tells a total stranger their shoes are cheap?  I don't know the clinical term for what's going on with her, but you can tell she's unhappy.  Crying in the hotel room when people call her on her bad behavior.    

As a person who had had a ton of therapy, my guess--she's recreating her mother's rejection, subconsciously, over and over because that's what feels normal to her.  She has no idea that she's doing it, and so won't ever stop. Sad.

[Gator Stud]

On 1/27/2022 at 10:47 AM, Stella Rose said:

Also...  where the heck are the "experts" ?  They should have swooped in stat to try to help out - or at least do something for poor Chris.

Experts??? Helping people???? You must be thinking about a different show.  They just voiceovers at this point.

[Racj82]

23 minutes ago, Gator Stud said:

Experts??? Helping people???? You must be thinking about a different show.  They just voiceovers at this point.

They are rarely involved during the honeymoon unless it's an emergency. Something they might want to change though.

[kristen111]

41 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

They are rarely involved during the honeymoon unless it's an emergency. Something they might want to change though.

I’d say a Groom not staying in the same room with his wife on their wedding night, an emergency.  It’s humiliating to him.  Like he is some sort of monster.  She must of been some piece of work while dating.  No wonder she needed this show.

[Gator Stud]

On 1/27/2022 at 11:19 AM, Retired at last said:

I think that was in reference to his need to travel around to find himself and whatever else he referred to. I guess I was not impressed that he used his unemployment and stimulus money to do that instead of finding a job or saving his money. I am not sure how long this was before or after he was told he was selected to be on this show. I can't understand why the producers (I am not even going to play that the experts have anything to do with the selection of participants) would select anyone who is unemployed and present him as a suitable new husband.

Why should he get another job right away or save money?  Thats what a lot of Americans did with COVID funds.  COVID taught us that life is not about work, and that even if you work 60 hours you still might barely make rent.  Life is meant for happiness, not for wage-slaving. Many of my professional friends quit their jobs and are doing something more meaningful.  A friend that was a server quit because she made $20 in an 8-hour shift, because there were no customers that day. She now makes more than that in an hour doing remote customer service work. Americans are not tolerating the BS from work anymore and bailing.  Another one of my friends quit his job, and he told me he had not found another one. He told me he would rather be broke than work for his asshole boss destroyed his health.  He would be happier being broke.

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, kristen111 said:

I’d say a Groom not staying in the same room with his wife on their wedding night, an emergency.  It’s humiliating to him.  Like he is some sort of monster.  She must of been some piece of work while dating.  No wonder she needed this show.

Eh. There is nothing to save here. There isn't much they can say. But, also, when I say urgent or emergency I mean after the blow up happens. If they don't show up on a zoom call this week, they truly don't care. This is the week where the decision to part ways happens.