Figure Skating

[Jeddah]

38 minutes ago, OnePlusOne said:

Midori Ito landed most of her jumps and Simone Biles wasn't falling at the end of her tumbling passes.

Simone had plenty of falls in her career. And even without falls she was constantly taking huge steps and going out of bounds on floor. If she only did tumbling passes she could stick perfectly, she wouldn’t have been the Simone Biles we know. 

[justmehere]

1 hour ago, CharethCutestory said:

...the essential artistry in figure skating has suffered too much...

I admit to not knowing a great deal about the technical side of skating, but I can see when someone matches their music and when music is played over whatever a skater happens to be doing. Yet there seems to be little mention of or attention paid to the latter. Music changes tempo or mood, yet the skater continues at the same pace and with the same level of expression. Also, some skaters might need more time to set up jumps (or some jumps require more setup?), but it's a drag watching someone skate half the length of the ice to get to one jump, let alone most of them, while the music is ignored. The same with simply flailing arms at any time or doing very little in between jumps. Add to that, some with very mechanical looking "artistic" movements - looking more like an afterthought than something to perform.

If the scoring of jumps and GOE need adjusting - as many have pointed out - then the scoring of artistic elements needs adjusting too to make it of equal importance. If some skaters suffer much lower scores for not being able to do the most difficult jumps, then others should suffer much lower scores for lacking artistry or executing it poorly. Real artistry certainly appears to be as difficult to master as the most difficult jumps, but it doesn't seem to be rewarded at the same level, or why isn't more effort made?

I know they are scored separately now, but the numbers don't necessarily accurately reflect separation nor equal weight. It sometimes seems like a skater who has lovely artistry is penalized in that score for mistakes or lower quality in jumping while someone with great jumps gets extra points for overall artistry when they haven't earned it. I recognize that artistry influences jumps - e.g. transitions into and out of them and GOE scores - but it's more than that. Maybe Music Interpretation, at least, needs to be given more weight and/or be judged more rigorously, and perhaps other features too. Composition and Performance? If not separate disciplines - and while recognizing the influence artistry has on jumps - then maybe somehow more separation in scoring - or something. I'm not sure how to say it. It just appears that technical and artistic elements are not truly weighted equally or judged equally. Why else so much emphasis on jumps at artistry's expense? 

I've only been watching full seasons of skating since the end of the 2018 Olympics. Before that, I mainly watched during the Olympics and maybe caught another competition here or there. I remember liking Ice Dance more than anything, and I remember noticing this one skater, Jason Brown, with his long ponytail, and looking for him each time. He just seemed different from the others and appealed to me more. I had no idea what appealed to me then, but now I do. Jumps can be absolute things of beauty, and I'm not minimizing their importance, but jump, land OK, skate a little bit, jump, land OK, ignore the music except for a perfunctory move here or there... or even just a burst at the end... yet get rewarded at a higher level than artistry throughout, doesn't seem right and doesn't interest me. (OK, maybe exaggerating a bit to make the point, but there is a point.)

[specialj67]

Finally getting to watch the third day of the team event, and I have to say that the Madisons’ reaction to Madison and Evan’s free dance score was so adorbs. Love to see that kind of team spirit. Piper and Paul’s free dance still isn’t my fave of theirs, but the last two lift elements are pretty great. I want to like Victoria and Nikita’s free dance, but their character step sequence absolutely takes me out of it—also, I can never forget how awful Nikita was to his previous partner, so there’s that. Shiyue and Xinyu were giving some great ‘tude in both of their performances in the team event; I hope they keep it up for the individual event. And Misato and Tim were just okay—sorry!

[absnow54]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Surya Bonaly did backflips and I had zero problem with it. However, it's apparently not that difficult a skill. Cartwheels would involve touching the ice with hands and I think that would be very prone to injury. But if someone wants to do an aerial, sure. Why not?

I thought backflips were banned because of the way they ripped up the ice, but maybe I made that up. I remember Scott Hamilton always did one during his exhibition skates, and we were always thrilled when he did it. As for cartwheels, I swear I saw someone do one during Nationals this year, but can’t remember which discipline. It was probably Ice Dance. 

[OnePlusOne]

58 minutes ago, justmehere said:

Music changes tempo or mood, yet the skater continues at the same pace and with the same level of expression. Also, some skaters might need more time to set up jumps (or some jumps require more setup?), but it's a drag watching someone skate half the length of the ice to get to one jump, let alone most of them, while the music is ignored. The same with simply flailing arms at any time or doing very little in between jumps. Add to that, some with very mechanical looking "artistic" movements - looking more like an afterthought than something to perform.

Some of the individual events have started to feel like Olympic women's gymnastics floor exercise routines, with half-assed attempts at choreography and the moves not being done in relationship to the music. Contrast that to NCAA-style routines, where the music feels much more integrated into the routines. And NCAA gymnastics is still a sport.

I've always loved watching dance, but also find it's my favorite discipline to watch now, too. Probably because of the stronger focus on integrating the choreography with the technical requirements.

Different topic: I was finally able to see Vincent Zhou's Instagram video announcing his withdrawal from the men's competition. My heart went out to him. How terrible for him to be so close to realizing his dream of competing for an individual medal, only to have to withdraw at the last minute. Being so far away from his support system must make it even more difficult. I hope he recovers soon.

Oh and finally...I'm in the "I loved Dick Button" camp. He truly loves the sport and was great at pointing out why an element was "first rate" or if it was ugly. I loved hearing his call of memorable skates like Rudy Galindo's at 1996 Nationals. And you know he'd be calling out all the catch-foot positions we keep seeing!

[sweeks]

28 minutes ago, specialj67 said:

Finally getting to watch the third day of the team event, and I have to say that the Madisons’ reaction to Madison and Evan’s free dance score was so adorbs. Love to see that kind of team spirit.

I don't know what they are doing in Montreal to create an atmosphere where these top competitors can also be on such good terms, but it is wonderful to see. This definitely did not seem to be the case when there were multiple top teams in Detroit. 

I enjoyed seeing so many of the skaters who weren't chosen for the team event come and support Team USA. Major props to Hawayek and Baker for cheering on their training mates. They both seemed happy to be there. 

[Guest]

I’m going to sound old fashioned here but I really think the sport overall would be improved by bringing back the compulsories. It forced development and perfection of the more basic skating skills which I think led to overall stronger skaters.

[Enero]

I've just tuned in to the FS coverage as I didn't have the time to watch the Team Event. Very excited about the men's short program tonight. I'm very disappointed that the app coverage is exactly what is playing on television., which means the coverage is going to be choppy at best. :(

I was hoping they'd continue the live coverage they've done in the past where the entire competition is shown on the app.

Very sad for Vincent Zhou. How disappointing that he's tested positive for Covid. At least, he was able to compete in the Team Event and won a silver though.

[scarynikki12]

I think this is a good idea:

 

[Enero]

Looks like USA is playing the full competition. YAY!

[Lady Whistleup]

Oof another rough skate for Roman Sadovsky. He probably won't qualify for the free skate.

[galaxygirl76]

I really enjoyed the Swedish skater.

[Enero]

Majorov really seems to be enjoying himself. Old school skate in that he doesn't have a quad in this program, but still pretty solid, despite the mistake. 

I'm also enjoying the use of music with lyrics. Such a nice change from the classical classics, which are nice, but get old because so many skaters recycle the classics. 

That was one thing about Michelle Kwan, besides her artistry, early in her career she used many classical pieces that were not well known which was a breath of fresh air. 

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

As for cartwheels, I swear I saw someone do one during Nationals this year, but can’t remember which discipline.

Majorov proved this is within the rules!

[annzeepark914]

11 minutes ago, Enero said:

Looks like USA is playing the full competition. YAY!

Thanks for the tip!!

[OnePlusOne]

Just now, absnow54 said:

Majorov proved this is within the rules!

Ha! I was just about to post this. I really enjoyed his program.

[Good Queen Jane]

Poor Roman. This hasn’t turned out to be the way he thought the Olympics would go.

[legaleagle53]

I somehow stumbled into the feed sans commentary, and I can't say that I miss one bit.

The Swedish skater is very good. I felt bad for the Canadian and the Swiss, though.

[CeeBeeGee]

7 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I really enjoyed the Swedish skater.

Such incredible joy and energy!

[lurkerbee]

7 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

If the athletes stop pushing, the sport stagnates. And it’s sport, not art. 

I LOVED figures. I want figures BACK. Figures forced skaters to focus on their technical skills. I thinking bringing figures back would greatly improve the quality of basic skating.

 

Oh, I definitely agree about wanting figures back, and for the same reasons, despite their not being exciting to watch. I think TV had a hand in their eventual demise. I remember going to watch a bit of the figures competition at 1987 Worlds in Cincinnati, and they were far more interesting in person.

I actually wonder if the quads will have an effect on the future orthopedic health of those who are popping off quad after quad.

Edited February 8, 2022 by lurkerbee

[kittykat]

Let's get our skate on!!!  Oof Canada.  Good job for the Swedish guy Majorov.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Bring some form of figures back, I think.  I don't know how, I don't know where, but with the advent of drones and technology and dividing the rink so that 12 single skaters can be on it at a time....there's got to be something they can do.

Also, I want a pony.  

[Enero]

Love the choreography of the Estonian skaters program. It's amazing that he got through that program with the dislocated shoulder. Great program despite his struggles.

[Enero]

I agree with Tara. Boyang has the best Quad Lutz in the world. It's just beautiful. Love to see it. 

His presentation has improved tremendously, but the program was just okay. It's too bad that he's kind of fallen off the radar these last few years. I always thought he had (and still does), a lot of potential.

[Bewitched]

Keep the figures through juniors.  That way the training is there and skills are built early, but the broadcast networks won't complain about boring competitions.

[kittykat]

Well played Jin Boyang.  Hopefully the home turf bump is paying off.

[Jillibean]

35 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I think this is a good idea:

 

Chock and Bates say thank you for this idea and look forward to debuting this next season for their free dance. 

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Chock and Bates say thank you for this idea and look forward to debuting this next season for their free dance. 

But she will be playing a sexy bank robber and he will find it very endearing. 

[Enero]

I'm with Scott Hamilton. Nathan Chen is the man. This is his gold to lose. Though Hanyu is awesome, he's not the Hanyu of 4-7 years ago. So I think silver and bronze could probably go to any of the top six. 

[emmawoodhouse]

46 minutes ago, Enero said:

Looks like USA is playing the full competition. YAY!

No they're not. Hockey at 11ET. 

[Enero]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

No they're not. Hockey at 11ET. 

Good to know. I guess I'll then switch to the app or NBC as they plan to show the top skaters live without commercial interruptions starting at 11.

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, Enero said:

Good to know. I guess I'll then switch to the app or NBC as they plan to show the top skaters live without commercial interruptions starting at 11.

NBC's lineup doesn't mention skating at all. I'll check it, but I fear I'll be watching the final groups on Peacock. 

[OnePlusOne]

I saw a tweet from the official NBC account mentioning the men's short program at 11:00pm EST, so hopefully they're planning to show the last two groups on the main broadcast.

[Mirabelle]

My DirecTv guide has the men's short program listed as part of the schedule. I assume they'll air the final group - I can't imagine they won't show Nathan Chen live on their main broadcast after all the promoting NBC has done of him.

[TexasGal]

4 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

NBC's lineup doesn't mention skating at all. I'll check it, but I fear I'll be watching the final groups on Peacock. 

My guide now shows figure skating in the NBC prime time.  It didn’t this weekend when I set it up to record every Olympic session with figure skating in the description though! 

[absnow54]

They mentioned they’d be airing the final group commercial free in NBC. 

[legaleagle53]

Yikes. That was a hard fall for the South Korean skater!

[emmawoodhouse]

13 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

They mentioned they’d be airing the final group commercial free in NBC. 

Oh thank goodness. 

[Minneapple]

What a skate for Donovan Carillo! How exciting for him to be able to represent Mexico like that!

[Enero]

The Mexican skater has strong jumps, but lacks presence. The program was not that great. But he looked to have enjoyed himself, which is awesome!  I think with the right choreographer he will improve.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Enero

[legaleagle53]

I love the Mexican kid. Well done, chico!

[OnePlusOne]

Wow, I really loved Donovan Carrillo's program. Great charisma and choreography. You could feel his joy and excitement. Hope we see lots more of him in the years to come.

[justmehere]

Donovan Carrillo is the guy who trains at a shopping mall rink because that's all that's available. It's a really big deal for him to be competing. Hope he qualifies for the free skate.

 

[Chaser]

Donovan’s excitement was adorable. Wonderful to see

[kittykat]

Donovan Carrillo officially qualified.

[annzeepark914]

2 minutes ago, justmehere said:

Donovan Carrillo is the guy who trains at a shopping mall rink because that's all that's available. It's a really big deal for him to be competing. Hope he qualifies for the free skate.

 

And, skating to Santana. Gracias! 

[Enero]

Solid program by the Ukraine skater, but what the heck was that on his shirt? LOL. I think I saw the Eiffel Tower, but what else?

[Chaser]

An umbrella 

[Enero]

Wow. 34 years old and still doing it. He must truly love it. Passable performance considering his age. 

[CherryMalotte]

When I think I'm done with skating, to much jumping, not enough jumping, the music sucks, I never want to hear Carmen/Bolero/Phantom songs, no artistry, the wrong artistry, really bad artistry...then comes on Donovan Carrillo and his joy just melts my jaded toe picked heart.   His smile was wonderful, and even if he's not in the top five, I sure want to see his long program.  Standing ovation in this house.

And I want his jacket!

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by CherryMalotte