S07.E08: A Long Time In The Making

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Jazz receives an answer from Harvard regarding her reacceptance; the Jennings head to DC and convince Jeanette to go zip-lining, and visit the Smithsonian exhibit that features Jazz herself; Sander reunites with Hope for a heart-to-heart.

Original air date 2022.01.18

[BAForever]

Is the title of this episode a clue about Harvard or the display in the Smithsonian or both? If you've never been to the Smithsonian and are in the D.C. area for a few days. I recommend a visit. Cool place.

Edited January 18, 2022 by BAForever

[Yokosmom]

This read like a finale episode, but apparently not.  I am very sick of Sander's whining.  Of course his family doesn't respect his career.  His TikTok videos, at least the ones that I've seen, switch between overly earnest PSAs and moronic "family fun entertainment" aimed at elementary age children.  No wonder he hasn't dated in five years. Can he support himself doing this? Is he living at home due to the pandemic, or can he not afford his own apartment?  And why didn't he tell his siblings, who were sort of bragging about their lives being more regulated than his supposedly footloose and fancy free one, that being a freelancer has its own difficulties?  That's what I would have said.  He comes off as a bit of a dim bulb, but I'm sure that he is genuinely hurt.  He is so annoying though, that it is hard to feel much sympathy.

Way too little too late, but yay to Greg telling Jeannette off for smothering Jazz and for her co-dependent relationship with her.  He is very much not down with her moving up to Cambridge with a one way airplane ticket.  

Sander gives Hope the "let's be friends" speech that she was no doubt expecting.  I'm sure that she has heard it many times before.

Next week's episode look interesting...

[lgprimes]

OMG Jazz LYING IN BED ALL DAY, waiting to get the email from Harvard! This is ruining that institution’s reputation of only accepting the most dedicated high-achieving students. Makes me angry on behalf of whatever student DIDN’T get accepted so that she could go.

[JeanJean]

Wow, how exciting was the ziplining. (I'm being sarcastic.) When your show starts featuring weekly activities that have nothing to do with the show, it's time to call it a day. Same thing happened on Outdaughtered when the quints got older.

The only people who were interesting no matter what they were doing were the Beatles.

Sander needs to learn that just because you do something performative, people (including family) don't have to pay attention to you doing your job all the time. Plumbers, lawyers, mailmen, engineers -- no one expects their family to come watch what they do all the time. 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by JeanJean

[shouldbedancing]

Honestly that last family TikTok was really cute. It should have been the end of the series.

[mmecorday]

I want to know where that oyster bar is.

I'm sorry I missed that exhibit. It looked really interesting. But there are tons of other reasons to visit the museums of the Smithsonian. There's always something new and different.

[JeanJean]

I loved Greg's talk with Jeanette. Wise fella.

[princelina]

1 hour ago, lgprimes said:

OMG Jazz LYING IN BED ALL DAY, waiting to get the email from Harvard! This is ruining that institution’s reputation of only accepting the most dedicated high-achieving students. Makes me angry on behalf of whatever student DIDN’T get accepted so that she could go.

I know - it had me hoping the "wait-listed" students don't watch this show!

Sander is just so darn EARNEST - makes me want to punch him in the face.  Maybe I'm drunk from taking a sip every time he said "proud of me/myself".  In spite of the fact that he earnestly explained his feelings about his "career" to his mom, Hope, and his family - I still have no idea what his "career" is - making tik toks and trying to do interesting transgender-type activities in order to steal the show from Jazz? 🤷‍♀️

[JeanJean]

25 minutes ago, princelina said:

I know - it had me hoping the "wait-listed" students don't watch this show!

Sander is just so darn EARNEST - makes me want to punch him in the face.  Maybe I'm drunk from taking a sip every time he said "proud of me/myself".  In spite of the fact that he earnestly explained his feelings about his "career" to his mom, Hope, and his family - I still have no idea what his "career" is - making tik toks and trying to do interesting transgender-type activities in order to steal the show from Jazz? 🤷‍♀️

Digital marketing, I think. I could also see him doing documentaries when he matures. But he really needs to chill out about his family; he's projecting his insecurity onto them.

[Desert Rat]

23 minutes ago, princelina said:

I know - it had me hoping the "wait-listed" students don't watch this show!

Sander is just so darn EARNEST - makes me want to punch him in the face.  Maybe I'm drunk from taking a sip every time he said "proud of me/myself".  In spite of the fact that he earnestly explained his feelings about his "career" to his mom, Hope, and his family - I still have no idea what his "career" is - making tik toks and trying to do interesting transgender-type activities in order to steal the show from Jazz? 🤷‍♀️

Sander is a product of the "Everybody gets a trophy" generation. So,  no matter how lame or trivial his "career" is, we have to pretend that his work is important and meaningful. Yes, Sander, you are special. Now take a seat. 

[JeanJean]

24 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

Sander is a product of the "Everybody gets a trophy" generation. So,  no matter how lame or trivial his "career" is, we have to pretend that his work is important and meaningful. Yes, Sander, you are special. Now take a seat. 

In fairness, I don't think digital marketing itself is lame. All kinds of businesses need it. And not everyone can be a lawyer. We have too many lawyers already - that's why our society is so litigious. 🙂 (I should add, though, that recent years have made me far more appreciative of law.) The coolest, most important and essential profession is probably nursing. And I'm not just saying that because there are nurses in my family. 🙂 (I'm not one - don't have the science smarts for it.)

Edited January 19, 2022 by JeanJean

[deirdra]

If Sander wants to convince people that his career in digital marketing is working, he needs to market something unrelated to his family members that doesn't have his face in every image.

[princelina]

1 hour ago, JeanJean said:

Digital marketing, I think. 

Yeah I know he said that - but what does it mean?  Why doesn't his family think he does anything besides annoy them with his cell phone?  He should be able to explain what his job is, and point out examples.  Unless he doesn't have a job - just a "career" 😄

18 minutes ago, deirdra said:

If Sander wants to convince people that his career in digital marketing is working, he needs to market something unrelated to his family members that doesn't have his face in every image.

Exactly!

[Bastet]

Ugh.  Even where I'm initially interested in the under-represented people and issues, I give up on reality shows (not proper documentary series, but reality shows) after the first couple of seasons because they stop being an accurate glimpse into someone's real life and become a series of staged shenanigans that have zip.shit to do with the original premise.  But, with nothing else on and not wanting to do anything productive, I decided to watch tonight.

These folks have devolved as much as I thought they had from keeping up with events by reading here.  I mean, they're not awful at all, they're fundamentally good, but they really stink for continuing this spectacle when it has clearly gone from being something worthwhile to something that exploits and stunts the development of everyone regularly involved.  And they don't need the show money to live a comfortable life, so there's no justification.

I understand, fundamentally, Jeanette's struggle; she's been a SAHM for eons, including to a child who had special needs.  The last piece of her primary identity is about to be gone, so who will she be now, when the last time she was first and foremost simply as her own person, not someone's wife and someone's mother, seems like a lifetime ago?  It's a tough adjustment to which Greg cannot fully relate because he's had a career and was never "just" Jeanette's husband and the kids' dad.

But, good grief.  When Greg asks why it should be any different for Jazz to have to learn to do her own laundry than she - and everyone else - had to do, and Jeanette says "because she's had all these difficulties"?  Being transgender affects Jazz in numerous, significant ways, but it has nothing to do with her ability to procure clean clothes for herself!  It's natural for her to have developed a co-dependent relationship with Jazz, but for her to deny it when it's pointed out to her is a problem.

If Sander wants more respect for his career, he needs to do something more than shove his stupid phone in everyone's face.  And, yeah, exploiting the family for money is learned behavior, but the show films for limited, pre-arranged times, while he seems to constantly be documenting and broadcasting their lives (and instead of developing one of his own, while the other kids have individual pursuits).  Of course, given their history, it's also entirely possible they have no actual issue with his chosen path, and this was yet another storyline.  But, no matter how scripted, the closing video was cute.

And the Smithsonian segment was nice, for Jazz to see herself immortalized as a museum-worthy piece of women's history!  She really has made a difference beyond what most can claim.  Should the line between example/educator/activist and regular kid have been drawn differently?  That can be debated even long after the Jennings are all gone.  But she brought the realities of being a transgender kid into the living rooms of people who would have never even thought about the issue otherwise. 

[BAForever]

8 hours ago, Desert Rat said:

Sander is a product of the "Everybody gets a trophy" generation. So,  no matter how lame or trivial his "career" is, we have to pretend that his work is important and meaningful. Yes, Sander, you are special. Now take a seat

Agree 100%. One concern though. I think Jeanette poured everything she had into Jazz from about age 3 on. I think Greg was busy building a career. Family and sibling dynamics are weird and I think Sander never got any validation from his mom as a child and is seeking it now. I remember back in S1, in a TH, Sander saying something about Jeanette missed a championship football game of his because she was busy with Jazz. Sander needs to move away, establish a career and he will be ok. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by BAForever

[BAForever]

Just finished a jog with more Jazz thoughts. I work at a large public school. We have a PR guy in our athletic dept. He puts things on school website, takes pictures for FB, IG and Twitter promoting student athletes and events.  I am sure that large and small businesses and politicians also have need for this type of digital marketing. I think it could be a great career, but I don't know how competitive a good job in digital marketing would be. Sander needs to move on with his career choice and see what happens.

[bichonblitz]

2 hours ago, FurBabyMama said:

and why is jazz not capable of doing laundry? Why walk on eggshells and continue to coddle her?

That is what Gregg wants to know. 

Jeanette is not exactly going to be an empty nester. Sander will still be living at home. 

[woodscommaelle]

13 hours ago, lgprimes said:

OMG Jazz LYING IN BED ALL DAY, waiting to get the email from Harvard! This is ruining that institution’s reputation of only accepting the most dedicated high-achieving students. Makes me angry on behalf of whatever student DIDN’T get accepted so that she could go.

Ooh this hits home. My niece applied to Harvard and was wait-listed.  I think she has since removed herself from the running, though. 

Why didn't Jazz take some classes at her local community college during this time?  I wish her well, but don't see her lasting more than a semester, if that. 

 

[readheaded]

1 hour ago, woodscommaelle said:

Ooh this hits home. My niece applied to Harvard and was wait-listed.  I think she has since removed herself from the running, though. 

Why didn't Jazz take some classes at her local community college during this time?  I wish her well, but don't see her lasting more than a semester, if that. 

 

Community college credits probably wouldn’t have transferred. 

[JeanJean]

I'm rooting for Jazz all the way.

Why haven't they shown her how to do her own laundry before going to college, though? That's like Tasks-For-Teens 101.

And Harvard's not the be-all and end-all. (It's stuck us with some pretty unethical and horrible politicians.)

I'm thinking Jeanette may have at least a touch of OCD, after her reaction with the clothes dye on the kitchen counter and her inability to loosen the reins on Jazz. It may be she's lived on "high alert" for so long, it's hard to turn her internal alarm off.

Edited January 19, 2022 by JeanJean

[PrincessPurrsALot]

11 hours ago, princelina said:

Yeah I know he said that - but what does it mean?  Why doesn't his family think he does anything besides annoy them with his cell phone?  He should be able to explain what his job is, and point out examples.  Unless he doesn't have a job - just a "career" 😄

Exactly!

Sander is in school so he may well not have a job yet.  He is working on building a career.  However, he would likely be best served by getting a job with a marketing firm when he finishes school.  If he later wants to break out on his own, after he has more experience, he would be better primed for success.  The work he has done to date is too enmeshed with his family.  He could offer his services to non-profits and small businesses to build up a portfolio.  

Digital Marketing is a legitimate career choice.  It's a growing field.  To me, the issue isn't his chosen path.  The issue is him. 

[princelina]

6 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Sander is in school so he may well not have a job yet.  He is working on building a career.  However, he would likely be best served by getting a job with a marketing firm when he finishes school.  

Digital Marketing is a legitimate career choice.  It's a growing field.  To me, the issue isn't his chosen path.  The issue is him. 

Is he in school?  I thought his t-shirt informed me last night that "this guy ^ has a master's degree" 😄

But yeah - I totally agree that he's the problem.

[Yokosmom]

…And why, for the love of god, does he have to be shirtless in his videos all the time…  I mean, what is that? Narcissism? Trolling for dates? Cry for attention?

[PrincessPurrsALot]

4 hours ago, Yokosmom said:

…And why, for the love of god, does he have to be shirtless in his videos all the time…  I mean, what is that? Narcissism? Trolling for dates? Cry for attention?

I vote for all of the above. 

[SongbirdHollow]

20 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I want to know where that oyster bar is.

I'm sorry I missed that exhibit. It looked really interesting. But there are tons of other reasons to visit the museums of the Smithsonian. There's always something new and different.

You can view it online at americanhistory.si.edu

Jazz’s story is in the section “A Girl’s Life” on the site.  The entire exhibit is very interesting and worth a look. 

[Luchy]

20 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I want to know where that oyster bar is.

Hank's Oyster Bar has expanded to a few locations now, but I am pretty sure they were at the Dupont Circle location on Q street in DC.

[Fostersmom]

8 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

Why didn't Jazz take some classes at her local community college during this time?  I wish her well, but don't see her lasting more than a semester, if that. 

I wonder if that would have been allowed. If she had to defer Harvard because of mental health issues, would they have frowned on her being healthy enough to attend another school? 

 

6 hours ago, Yokosmom said:

…And why, for the love of god, does he have to be shirtless in his videos all the time…  I mean,ye  what is that? Narcissism? Trolling for dates? Cry for attention?

All of the above, for sure.

And who the hell is paying him to make all this content of his family? He claims he's working, but posting shit on his own Instagram and his sister's isn't a job. Is he creating content for anyone else? He said he's raised over $50,000, but honestly, that doesn't seem like a hell of a lot given how many followers his family has. But, it doesn't surprise me since his content seems basic at best. I've yet to see anything that would really make anyone stop in their tracks and pay attention.

I'll give him a free idea though that might actually catch attention... arrange for a make over for Jeanette! What the holy hell what she wearing at lunch with Greg? It was hideous and just tragic. Jazz needs a makeover too. I get she gained a lot of weight, but she needs some decent clothes that fit and to brush her damn hair! Long hair is great, but she always looks like a sweaty mess with it in her face. 

 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

As of the point in time of the episode, Jazz has been accepted to Harvard.  Ari and Griffin are planning to head back to school.  Sander exists.  Anything learned later than that is a spoiler. Posts have been removed. 

[woodscommaelle]

1 hour ago, Fostersmom said:

I wonder if that would have been allowed. If she had to defer Harvard because of mental health issues, would they have frowned on her being healthy enough to attend another school?

That makes sense. I guess I was thinking that she should just be doing something to get her ready for school. What has she been doing since she graduated high school? **I don’t currently have cable so I’m not watching this season, though I was able to see the first few episodes for free on YouTube, but now they’re charging so I haven’t seen the last half of this season.**
 

Also though, if she’s depressed, which I really think she is, doing much of anything can be ridiculously hard. This is just me speaking from my own personal experience. 
 

Again, I wish her nothing but the best, but I just see so much sadness in her.  (Again, speaking from my own depression).

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by woodscommaelle

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

Sander is a product of the "Everybody gets a trophy" generation. So,  no matter how lame or trivial his "career" is, we have to pretend that his work is important and meaningful. Yes, Sander, you are special. Now take a seat. 

IMHO it seems that Jeanette (and really the entire family) was focused on Jazz, so Sander figures if he hitches his wagon to Jazz and her issues, he's going to be noticed and appreciated.  It's like he's jumping up and down saying "see ME see ME" which is pretty sad.  He needs to get his own stuff happening.  My next door neighbor does digital marketing and she supports herself AND her husband working at home.  

BTW, Griffin is a law clerk right now. . . not a lawyer.  I believe he is still in law school at UF (University of Florida). 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, woodscommaelle said:

Also though, if she’s depressed, which I really think she is, doing much of anything can be ridiculously hard. This is just me speaking from my own personal experience.

Same - life is well and truly overwhelming when you're dealing with depression, and (through no fault of their own) people who haven't dealt with it can't truly understand how even the simplest of things are sometimes so damn hard or even impossible. 

If she was at a stage of it where she couldn't start college, she couldn't start college - be it Harvard or a JC.  Better she take the time to tinker with meds, therapy, and behaviors to find how her condition is best managed; with her lucky enough to have housing and economic security in the interim, let that be her job for a bit.

It's tough, though, because being reliant on her family gives her that freedom to evaluate and learn how to function, but they also simultaneously enable and shame her.  (It's tough on them, too - there isn't a hazard-free roadmap through the ongoing journey of depression for loved ones any more than there is for patients.)

I hope she's indeed ready, and it goes well for her.  I also hope she gets to do it off camera.

[deirdra]

Jazz could have spent a bit of time learning how to do laundry, buy and cook real food.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Hope to Sander:  You need to learn to validate yourself and not rely on approval from others.

Sander to his family:  Validate meeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

PPAL:  Ugh.

I liked Griffin explaining that they would like for him to focus on the people he is with rather than always being either filming or on his phone.  I doubt his media career is booming so much that he can't take a minute to speak with someone.  Sander is becoming the show's Vicki Gunvalson from RHOC. Always "working".

 

[BAForever]

Agree with poster upthread.  This would have been a great series finale. My biggest peeve is that Jazz only seems to be an advocate for transgender youth when cameras are rolling. The whole fam would be best served stopping the show. Not sure if Jeanette and Sander can deal with the anonymity. 

[lgprimes]

23 hours ago, readheaded said:

Community college credits probably wouldn’t have transferred

They would have. 
I went to a similar university and would take community college classes during the summer. They were always accepted. But I don’t think Jazz was in the right head space to do anything for a little while there. 

[readheaded]

2 hours ago, lgprimes said:

They would have. 
I went to a similar university and would take community college classes during the summer. They were always accepted. But I don’t think Jazz was in the right head space to do anything for a little while there. 

That's interesting. My son's taking community college courses in his senior year of high school and some of the colleges he's considering, which aren't ivy league caliber, won't give him credit for those courses.

[spacefly]

3 hours ago, lgprimes said:

They would have. 
I went to a similar university and would take community college classes during the summer. They were always accepted. But I don’t think Jazz was in the right head space to do anything for a little while there. 

I don't' think it is a matter of credits transferring but a matter of her status at Harvard. She was accepted as an incoming freshman and if she takes any college credits during her year of deferment she would lose the freshman status and become a transfer student. In most cases this means applying again as a transfer, risk losing incoming freshmen scholarship money and even losing a spot in a competitive major. You start the entire process all over again. I have 2 nephews and a niece who deferred 2020 entry and they were all told this by their schools.

[lgprimes]

30 minutes ago, readheaded said:

That's interesting. My son's taking community college courses in his senior year of high school and some of the colleges he's considering, which aren't ivy league caliber, won't give him credit for those courses.

Well i am ancient so things could have changed! Also the above poster could have a point? I was already enrolled when I was doing that. 

[princelina]

23 hours ago, Luchy said:

Hank's Oyster Bar has expanded to a few locations now, but I am pretty sure they were at the Dupont Circle location on Q street in DC.

With the big pride flag in the background - since they couldn't wear their logo t-shirts 😄

[SunnyBeBe]

Jeannette needs therapy.  She is completely obsessed with Jazz.  She’s really delusional to think that mommie making her daughter’s like smooth is necessary.  Her goal of being around so Jazz has no struggles is ridiculous.  Jazz may need to get a restraining order.  It’s not right to continue to interfere with her life.  As dad said, she’s 20 years old.  People learn from making mistakes, failing, feeling their own pain, figuring it out, and accomplishing things on their own.  There are other people, including friends and professionals Jazz can rely on, if she needs them at school.  

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

On 1/22/2022 at 3:50 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Jeannette needs therapy.  She is completely obsessed with Jazz.  She’s really delusional to think that mommie making her daughter’s like smooth is necessary.  Her goal of being around so Jazz has no struggles is ridiculous.

I always think about when Dr. Phil said "what are you getting out of that"? Jeanette is obviously getting validation and control of her daughter (was it just me, or did I hear her use the word "momager" aka mom manager, during this episode? So is she getting a percentage of what income Jazz is generating with the show? And Jazz of course still gets to be the center of the universe in her family. I'm guessing Jazz doesn't really know how to fail - I'm not saying she didn't have challenges when she was growing up, but her mom took care of them.  It's harmful to to not let young adults learn to handle their own lives (unless they are on drugs or seriously going to harm themselves). Jazz will never learn to live a full life until her mom lets go.  How hard can it be to wash clothes? To shop for clothing that fits? To grocery shop? To wake up on time for classes? If she's a motivated student worthy of Harvard, she should be able to handle those simple tasks.  Otherwise, she will join multiple  students that have crashed and burned at college and returned home to take classes locally. And her dilation business should be just that - her own business.  Natural consequences.  She's twenty.  If she wants her surgery to continue to be successful, she needs to own her recovery. 

[Not Buyin It]

On 1/18/2022 at 9:14 PM, lgprimes said:

OMG Jazz LYING IN BED ALL DAY, waiting to get the email from Harvard! This is ruining that institution’s reputation of only accepting the most dedicated high-achieving students. Makes me angry on behalf of whatever student DIDN’T get accepted so that she could go.

I crossed that bridge back when Jazz first got accepted, only to then stipulate that Jazz needs time to do things on Jazz's schedule and when Jazz is darn good and ready, well, then the red carpet can be rolled out on the Commons. At that point, that freshman seat should have gone to the next name on the list - someone who was ready and healthy enough to go THEN. Horribly entitled people, the whole family. And I'm hoping somebody pitches Sander's blasted phone out the nearest open car window - enough with the camera-in-the-face thing.

[Sile]

On 1/18/2022 at 7:14 PM, lgprimes said:

OMG Jazz LYING IN BED ALL DAY, waiting to get the email from Harvard! This is ruining that institution’s reputation of only accepting the most dedicated high-achieving students. Makes me angry on behalf of whatever student DIDN’T get accepted so that she could go.

Not just lying in bed all day, but lying in HER PARENTS' bed all day.  With Jeanette coming by periodically to check in on her.  What is the fascination with her parents' bedroom?

[all4mom2]

43 minutes ago, Sile said:

Not just lying in bed all day, but lying in HER PARENTS' bed all day.  With Jeanette coming by periodically to check in on her.  What is the fascination with her parents' bedroom?

It looked like her bedroom in that scene.  However, she said she was lying in the parents' bed to dilate and watch TV that time.  Also however, I thought she said Jeanette had been lying in bed WITH her while they waited to get that text from Harvard?  And of course Jeanette and Greg seem to lie in bed and watch TV a lot, and Jazz lies on the couch and looks at her phone a lot, always under a blanket.  Sounds like they lie around on beds under blankets watching TV a lot, probably like a lot of us since COVID...

Edited January 31, 2022 by all4mom2

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks, 

A reminder:  We do not talk about transgender persons "passing".  This term has been aligned with the idea that Transgender persons are trying to "fool" or "trick" others.  That idea has led to violence against transgender persons which we know is not anyone's intention on this board. 

Questions?  PM @PrincessPurrsALot.

[Sile]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:35 AM, all4mom2 said:

It looked like her bedroom in that scene.  However, she said she was lying in the parents' bed to dilate and watch TV that time.  Also however, I thought she said Jeanette had been lying in bed WITH her while they waited to get that text from Harvard?  And of course Jeanette and Greg seem to lie in bed and watch TV a lot, and Jazz lies on the couch and looks at her phone a lot, always under a blanket.  Sounds like they lie around on beds under blankets watching TV a lot, probably like a lot of us since COVID...

No, I'm pretty sure it was her parents'.  I vaguely remember her saying something about being in her mom's bed, because that made me actually look and see those big carved posts (they do have a gorgeous bedroom set).

I know it's a big deal in recent years for people to always have a blanket over them, big sweaters pulled down over their hands, etc., but I can't even imagine being covered in blankets on the couch in Florida!  Unless they keep the a/c cranked up to freezing.

[deirdra]

They do show her laying in her parents' bed sometimes, but it is in the middle of the room, not pushed into the corner like her own bed where we have seen her laze about recently.