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S23.E11: Burning With Rage Forever


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The case this week seems to have the potential to be interesting, but why oh why do they have to force in a Noah subplot? No one likes the brat except for the Benson superfans, but the show is all about showing how wonderful St Olivia is and Mariska no doubt loves playing super mommy and I’m sure it will end with Benson saving the day with whatever is going on with Noah. I’m so sick of the St Olivia and Noah hour. 

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Well Noah is her son. He has to be involved somehow. No sense just showing him on and off for the heck of it. Utilize him in some personal stories of his own. He's also a child so I don't get the hate for him. We barely see much of him as is and when we finally do get a bit of spotlight on him, it ruffles people. It makes no sense to me. 

Edited by TotalDrama
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2 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

Well Noah is her son. He has to be involved somehow. No sense just showing him on and off for the heck of it. Utilize him in some personal stories of his own. He's also a child so I don't get the hate for him. 

This show is supposed to be about the cases. Not the family members of the squad. Noah the brat adds NOTHING to the show, just like Stabler’s annoying kids added nothing to the show. The Benson/Noah stuff is irritating and pointless and done just to shove Benson down our throats even more and to show off how awesome she is. 

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58 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

Well Noah is her son. He has to be involved somehow. No sense just showing him on and off for the heck of it. Utilize him in some personal stories of his own. He's also a child so I don't get the hate for him. We barely see much of him as is and when we finally do get a bit of spotlight on him, it ruffles people. 

When the Noah character is used for an episode it always includes Benson and her personal life. This personal life portion of the episode seems to be more expanded than the other regular characters unless the episode is specifically written about the regular character. So when Benson's personal life is used in an episode, there is a good chance the investigation to the episode's particular crime will be watered down or very superficial.

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4 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

He's also a child so I don't get the hate for him.

I don't think that his being a child is any kind of exemption.  A lot of people hate children.  Especially children on television, who can be especially hateful.

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The guy playing the child molester nailed the part. He is both creepy and sinister! I hate it when the parents want vigilante justice, but when they don't get it, they don't want their child to testify because it's too traumatic for them. That is just way too inconsistent,

Edited by dttruman
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Pretty good episode overall actually, I liked the case and the twists it took.

This was one of the season’s better cases, I liked the twists it took and it was pretty solid from start to finish, both the detective work and legal stuff was pretty good. Carlos was an interesting character but I have to say I didn’t feel a lot of sympathy for him, while he had been through a lot of trauma it’s no excuse for molesting a kid, at least he did the decent thing and pleaded guilty, but I thought he should’ve gotten a longer prison sentence. The pedophile who kidnapped Carlos’ nephew was one of the creepiest villains modern day SVU has had, he was pure scum.

Carisi was good and it’s always nice when SVU manages to write the legal side without trashing the DA’s office or writing things poorly, and they did a decent job in this one.

I’m unsure of what to make of Elvis the vigilante, but he’s interesting.

Not nearly enough Fin, he was completely absent from the second half of the episode and he barely did anything, what was the point of even having him if they were just going to waste him again? It was nice to see all of the main characters in an episode, but I’m sick of Fin being window dressing.

The only glaringly bad part of the episode was Noah, that stuff was just cringeworthy and awful. I’m so sick of them shoehorning the brat into scenes or having something going on with him that ties in loosely and clumsily into the theme of the case, it gets so tiresome, this isn’t a family soap opera, or at least it shouldn’t be. I don’t care about the constant drama surrounding Benson/Noah, and Noah basically had more dialogue than Fin tonight. What a joke. So the beginning and ending of the episode really dragged down the show. 

Take out the Noah drama and use it to flesh out the case more and give Fin more time, and this would’ve been really good. It was still pretty good and better than most modern day SVU episodes. 

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Quite a good episode. At one point, I was wondering where the story was going because everything clear. I liked the ins and outs of the storyline. Carlos looks so much like Chris Pine.

As usual the Noah storyline was useless.

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We all have opinions. And sometimes, they will not correspond with our own. This is not the place to pick apart any poster's opinions. As long as it deals with fictional characters and does not attack actual posters, differences are allowed sans dissecting every facet. Don't agree? Discuss like adults without shredding the other opinion or avoid altogether and scroll.

If any of you do not wish to scroll, the board does have an official poster ignore feature. If you want to use this and do not know how, I or @txhorns79 are a PM away to help you out.

A message board is filled with different ideas. The key is civility.

Be civil - or be gone, as the board rules state.

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8 hours ago, dttruman said:

When the Noah character is used for an episode it always includes Benson and her personal life. This personal life portion of the episode seems to be more expanded than the other regular characters unless the episode is specifically written about the regular character. So when Benson's personal life is used in an episode, there is a good chance the investigation to the episode's particular crime will be watered down or very superficial.

Noah represents a part of Olivia's personal life so this is not surprising if we dwell in that. And we have many episodes where the other characters are front and center and her personal life explored like Amanda's family drama with either her mother or sister or both and frankly, that's more dramatic than Olivia's ordeal with Noah. The investigations are not always going to be top and center especially for a spinoff where it's looser with its format and can go beyond just the investigations and be done.

5 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

I don't think that his being a child is any kind of exemption.  A lot of people hate children.  Especially children on television, who can be especially hateful.

Noah is not a bad kid, so he deserves no hate. He's for the most part, tame and obedient and just trying to be a kid as he should be. If he was like Henry Messner who's spoiled and troubled (but probably without the killer antics) then you'd have a point, but he's nothing like that. 

9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

This show is supposed to be about the cases. Not the family members of the squad. Noah the brat adds NOTHING to the show, just like Stabler’s annoying kids added nothing to the show. The Benson/Noah stuff is irritating and pointless and done just to shove Benson down our throats even more and to show off how awesome she is. 

The show is not strictly about the cases. This is not the original L&O. We've seen similar things with Stabler and his kids, Finn and his son, Amanda and her kids/sister/mother going as far as back as Season 1 altogether. What we're seeing with Olivia is nothing new given the past times she's had her family ordeals with her mother, her dad, her half-brother, etc. so it's nothing pointless seeing her have a relationship with her adoptive son. It's simply adding personal depth to these people we should be getting outside of the case and since this isn't the usual L&O format, we're allowed to explore more with this.

Edited by TotalDrama
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Eh, as far as modern SVU goes, it wasn't a total crapfest. That said, I don't care one bit about Noah. Ship the kid to boarding school. I mean, if Dick Wolf can do that on the FBI shows, he can do so here.

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I liked the show tonight but I had no use for Noah, I actually changed the channel when he came on..

6 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

The show is not strictly about the cases. This is not the original L&O. We've seen similar things with Stabler and his kids, Finn and his son, Amanda and her kids/sister/mother going as far as back as Season 1 altogether. What we're seeing with Olivia is nothing new given the past times she's had her family ordeals with her mother, her dad, her half-brother, etc. so it's nothing pointless seeing her have a relationship with her adoptive son. It's simply adding personal depth to these people we should be getting outside of the case and since this isn't the usual L&O format, we're allowed to explore more with this.

I am just so tired of Mariska's agenda dominating the show, the character of Noah is the embodiment of that in my opinion.  I don't think that Olivia earned the right to adopt Noah.  I would have preferred if Olivia had had a late in life pregnancy, if the show wanted to give her a child..

Edited by Pearson80
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3 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

I liked the show tonight but I had no use for Noah, I actually changed the channel when he came on..

I am just so tired of Mariska's agenda dominating the show, the character of Noah is the embodiment of that in my opinion.  I don't think that Olivia earned the right to adopt Noah.  I would have preferred if Olivia had had a late in life pregnancy..

Oh yes St Olivia adopting Noah is ridiculous, I think it would be very hard for someone like Benson to adopt a kid given that she has no other family and works long hours. Mariska just wanted to play super mommy and I guarantee she is the one who introduced the idea of Noah into the show. The show is more of a vehicle for MH to promote herself, portray herself as a saint, boost her ego and push her agenda than it is a crime show. Her ego has damaged the show beyond repair, the best we can hope for is decent cases where St Olivia worship doesn’t take front and center. 

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15 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

I liked the show tonight but I had no use for Noah, I actually changed the channel when he came on..

I am just so tired of Mariska's agenda dominating the show, the character of Noah is the embodiment of that in my opinion.  I don't think that Olivia earned the right to adopt Noah.  I would have preferred if Olivia had had a late in life pregnancy, if the show wanted to give her a child..

Her having a child isn't a problem. I think the timing to finally give her one was off because there's no telling how long this show would go on for and I'd like to see him as a preteen or teenager where this will open more doors for him to be involved in the stories. But we have long ways to go with that if the show even makes it to 30 seasons. I wouldn't be as bothered by Noah's incorporation into the show if we saw other kids come into the picture sooner Olivia had or adopted. I wish Eli was Olivia's son with Elliot during an affair they had during Season 8 because then with Elliot out of the picture by Season 13, there's a part of him still present for all those years. Then we have that kid Calvin from Season 12 who she adopts and raise (I hated they removed him from the story) and then we move into Noah so she has three kids total, two of which will be mature ages by Season 23 to see them caught up in some good mature storylines to shake things up for Olivia. 

Watching Organized Crime and seeing Eli go through what he's going through, I'd like to see that for Noah but he's too young, but if Eli was Olivia's son or if Calvin was still in the picture, I wouldn't be bugged out by Noah being too young because what I'd like to see out of him now can be given to an older sibling of his if they already existed. Overall, they waited too long to give Olivia a kid and one that would be too young upon meeting him, meaning it'd be years before we finally see him do things on his own. 

Edited by TotalDrama
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6 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

Noah is hardly a problem with the show now. He's basically there for five seconds and then is gone for the most part in a lot of the episodes he does appear in and other times we go many episodes without seeing him. I hardly see how he's annoying that we can't deal with him when he does get a bit of shine. It's not like the kid writes his own stories and they're not even bad ones. He's gone through what many guest-appearing child victims went through. Let it be any other kid not related to the main characters who's a random special victim we're use to seeing and there's no problem. It's tick-for-tack with you guys on this and it's just wrong.

It's fine if you like him; it's also fine if others do not.

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1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

It's fine if you like him; it's also fine if others do not.

Noah is not the bad guy here. No one should be hating on a child that isn't even a badly written character or one with bad traits. 

I just got done watching the episode, it was good. Noah had VERY LITTLE TO DO as expected so the uproar about him is nothing that should be a complaint. His stuff only took up the very opening and closing moments of the episode so nothing really big there. I will admit, it was surprising to hear him know what "bisexual" meant at his age, but his moment with Olivia at the end was very touching and emotional. I LOVED IT. 

I recognize the Carlos actor from a 2007 episode of Criminal Intent where he played a character named Paco whose friends murdered three black teenagers at a park. I wish this was the same character to establish a connection. Whatever jail/prison time Paco would have gotten being involved, he surely would have been out by now to be able to be involved in this story. I hate when they bring back actors and they're not the same character when they very well could be. Ugh, I swear we need new people running these shows and establishing connections with the other shows the proper way. 

I was stunned during the courtroom scene where we had those brief conversation moments between Carlos's family and those protest dudes. Not often do we see background scenarios play out like this between guest characters not involving the main characters or even moments. This was a treat to see as it was very Criminal Intent-esque, so I'd like to see more of this in future episodes. It wasn't entirely like the moments in CI as Carisi was still present, but he was feet away and oblivious to all of this. It was as close to private moments with guest characters we really get to see on the show.

Edited by TotalDrama
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8 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

Noah is not the bad guy here. No one should be hating on a child that isn't even a badly written character or one with bad traits. 

I just got done watching the episode, it was good. Noah had VERY LITTLE TO DO as expected so the uproar about him is nothing that should be a complaint. I recognize the Carlos actor from a 2007 episode of Criminal Intent where he played a character named Paco whose friends murdered three black teenagers at a park. I wish this was the same character to establish a connection. I hate when they bring back actors and they're not the same character when they very well could be. Ugh, I swear we need new people running these shows and establishing connections with the other shows the proper way. 

The Law and Order Universe has always used actors in multiple roles in various franchises.  It’s like a full employment agency for journeyman NYC actors. 

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17 minutes ago, TotalDrama said:

Noah is not the bad guy here. No one should be hating on a child that isn't even a badly written character or one with bad traits. 

I just got done watching the episode, it was good. Noah had VERY LITTLE TO DO as expected so the uproar about him is nothing that should be a complaint. His stuff only took up the very opening and closing moments of the episode so nothing really big there. I will admit, it was surprising to hear him know what "bisexual" meant at his age, but his moment with Olivia at the end was very touching and emotional. I LOVED IT. 

I recognize the Carlos actor from a 2007 episode of Criminal Intent where he played a character named Paco whose friends murdered three black teenagers at a park. I wish this was the same character to establish a connection. Whatever jail/prison time Paco would have gotten being involved, he surely would have been out by now to be able to be involved in this story. I hate when they bring back actors and they're not the same character when they very well could be. Ugh, I swear we need new people running these shows and establishing connections with the other shows the proper way. 

I was stunned during the courtroom scene where we had those brief conversation moments between Carlos's family and those protest dudes. Not often do we see background scenarios play out like this and very rarely do we see moments like that between guest characters not involving the main characters so this was a treat to see. Very Criminal Intent-esque and I'd like to see more this in future episodes.

You've said your piece on this. The point is, posters here are allowed to either love or hate a character, no justification is needed. This is not a fan board. Hating is allowed where characters are concerned. No opinion is wrong or right. Some think Noah is an issue. Valid. You don't, also valid.

Time to drop this and move on.

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17 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The Law and Order Universe has always used actors in multiple roles in various franchises.  It’s like a full employment agency for journeyman NYC actors. 

True, but it helps if they were playing the same characters to establish links between the shows and sometimes when actors come back and they play other characters, it makes no sense. Like Kirk Acevedo for example. He came back to SVU from 2013 onward playing a different character than when he started off as DA Investigator Hector Salazar in Trial By Jury in 2005 who also guest-starred on SVU in a crossover episode. The head scratcher is that in his 2013 appearance, he played a character who worked in the DA's office and knew Barba. But he's not Hector. Why is he not playing Hector!? Then his following SVU appearance, he's playing a new character as a cop. Huh? Hector was a former cop and could have easily gotten back on the force. Kirk could have been Hector in all these appearances to establish a link instead of playing two new characters. I DON'T GET IT. -_-

Jon Ceda could have played his Homicide: Life on the Street character on Chicago P.D. and Chicago Justice as he was a cop character, STILL LIVING by the end of that show (done in a similar fashion with John Munch when Dick Wolf brought him from that show to SVU), to establish a link between shows instead of creating the new character of Antonio Dawson. Missed opportunities to have these people reprise their roles, but have them play new characters with the traits of their predecessor. How odd.

Edited by TotalDrama
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On 1/14/2022 at 2:03 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

The Law and Order Universe has always used actors in multiple roles in various franchises.  It’s like a full employment agency for journeyman NYC actors. 

Bottom line, Job security!

3 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

The Law and Order Universe has always used actors in multiple roles in various franchises.  It’s like a full employment agency for journeyman NYC actors. 

This would only be for a very small amount of actors. Why go so far to involve a very minor reoccurring character, it just doesn't make sense. Why is it, if we see someone playing one character that he must always be that character, unless he becomes a sort of major character.

 

 

 

Edited by dttruman
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5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes St Olivia adopting Noah is ridiculous, I think it would be very hard for someone like Benson to adopt a kid given that she has no other family and works long hours. 

In the episode "Inconceivable" she tells Eliot that she applied to adopt and was turned down because she was single and worked long hours. 

I get suspension of disbelief, but it was ridiculous how a family court judge just spontaneously decided to hand a baby over to Olivia on a "hunch".

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The Good:
The COTW.  A nice blend of straightforward and twists and the specifics naturally leading into the exploration of larger issues.  Perhaps they might want to consider doing more of this? I mean it seems like a a variety of sexually based offenses investigated by elite detectives could work? And so could using the crimes to explore larger social issues. I would watch that. Maybe even multiple series...
Carisi. He got a lot to do this week and it was all good, solid legal material. Maybe they've finally figured out how to depict the natural tension between the separate yet equally important groups that represent the the people in the criminal justice system without turning the DA's office into cartoon political hacks?
Velasco. He was written well this week. A good detective who was the new guy on the team without being an idiot.
The guest cast. Good nuanced performances all around. And it was nice to see the diversity of NYC reflected.

The Bad:
Benoah. Yeah it didn't take up as much time as we thought it might, but it still didn't add anything and the execution was lacking.
Fin was criminally underused. These victims and this case are completely in his wheelhouse and he got less screen time than Noah.
The ending, An emotionally disturbed barricaded suspect with Benson taking charge (because she has such a great track record in these situations) followed by Benson whispering making it all better for everyone and then showing what a wonderful progressive mother she is. It was a turd at the bottom of a pretty good punch bowl.

Overall it was good, adding on to the momentum they've built up in going back to basics and actually executing well. If it's not up to the level of the first half of season 17 it's still much better than most of the last decade of SVU and first time in a long time it really feels like the show might be on track for sustained competence with the occasional detour into OC promo stupidity and coasting in to a dignified ending.

Edited by wknt3
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Yep. I am really tired of the benson show.  They introduce a major new plot point in Rollins and Carisi and literally ignore it for half of the season. If Noah can be in the show for giving benson a personal life, Carisi can at least buy poor Rollins a coffee.  
 

I think I spied a baby bump on Rollins in the first few scenes with her. So there may be a decent Rollins/Carisi storyline coming.  If she isn’t pregnant,  the wardrobe people need to burn that green shirt.

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This was a solid episode!  Might be the most interesting this season, with the twists and turns it took.  A minute or 2 of personal stuff at the beginning and the end doesn't bother me.  Like it or not, Mariska is the star of the show, so she has a lot of influence.  It was kept to a minimum, so I'm fine with it.  Disappointed, there was no Murphy though.  After last week I thought maybe he'd pop in.

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I am no fan of Saint Olivia and the shows obsession with the detectives annoying personal drama, but I thought the Noah plot was basically inoffensive. It at least tied into the main stories themes of parents being worried about bad things happening to their kids when they aren't looking. I hope the mom of Noah's "friend" takes a long hard look at her kid, forcing kids into cages and making them wear dog collars is pretty beyond "boys will be boys". Its more like "boys will be potential serial killers." 

The main case was actually really good, I was surprised by the twists and turns that it took and it had an excellent guest cast. The guy playing Carlos is one of those actors I have seen in a lot of minor roles around television, he did a great job and really made me feel sympathy for him even after we found out what he did to poor little Andre. Also props to the guy playing the child molester, he really made me absolutely loath him instantly, his obvious horribleness really made it easy to root for Carlos in beating the hell out of him. Its weird that we keep seeing Elvis the biker vigilante, especially as when we first met him he was clearly not supposed to be sympathetic while now he isn't really being played as a villain, and its been ages since this show has reoccurring characters, especially outside of the police force. The whole story was so sad, the cycle of abuse if a great theme for the show to explore, I felt so bad for Carlos and what he went through but he did really screw up leaving his nephew and what he did to Andre was unforgivable, which he very much knows. its just a terrible situation all around, hopefully the kids get help so they can possible avoid being as tormented as Carlos was going forward

Great having a good Carisi episode, its taken awhile for the show to really figure out how to use him as the DA, and I think they have finally found his stride. I am glad that none of the squad acted like he was a monster for trying to get Carlos charged, except for the new guy who was clearly personally affected by the case, and even then he didn't get up in his face or anything like what's happened before. As  horrible as people like the child molester are and how understandable attacking them is, you cant just take the law into your own hands, the law applies to everyone, no exceptions, or the system totally breaks down. I always want more Finn, but everyone was mostly focused on being professional and doing police work, not spouting off big speeches or finding all of their clues due to coincidence or by Olivia's sainthood. 

Best part of the episode though? It was just an SVU episode, not a preview for some other show. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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4 hours ago, lazylump said:

I think I spied a baby bump on Rollins in the first few scenes with her.

So did I! Maybe Murphy & Rollins did it once "for old times sake" when he was in town last episode and Jessie will have a full sibling. Or, they'll "go there" with Carisi, making Rollins have 3 children by 3 different men.

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Wow!!! Noah is so woke at 8 years old there really is hope for the future!  LOL

I think they overloaded the episode packing it with brief scenes regarding serious themes of bullying/molestation/online predators/adult victims of molestation/ revenge/ vigilante justice/gender & sexual orientation equality.  The tipping point for me was Noah, casually woke-splaining to his Mom as they stroll along about his experiences with bullying/bullies.  He could be St. Olivia’s disciple and the show could go on forever!

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37 minutes ago, kicotan said:

Wow!!! Noah is so woke at 8 years old there really is hope for the future!  LOL

I think they overloaded the episode packing it with brief scenes regarding serious themes of bullying/molestation/online predators/adult victims of molestation/ revenge/ vigilante justice/gender & sexual orientation equality.  The tipping point for me was Noah, casually woke-splaining to his Mom as they stroll along about his experiences with bullying/bullies.  He could be St. Olivia’s disciple and the show could go on forever!

What threw me off from that first scene was Benson herself. She walked in on a very strange scene, yet she just slinked away, making strange faces. I'm speaking as a very shy person who might have slipped away like that, but Olivia, is a head honcho. Her inability to engage in any way was unbelievable.  If Stabler or Amaro had walked in, that bully would have been crapping his pants. 

 

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3 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

That's the thing. They could take this MINOR character and turn them into a larger one by utilizing them more in future stories. And I wouldn't really say they're minor characters since they play a significant role in the episodes they're guest-starring in and are part of the plot. A minor character would be like some one we see for one scene helping the police get information on a case. And even those people I'd like to see used again and again and eventually build up for more major roles in a case.

I believe they are only going to give those reoccurring roles to the Big Name guest stars who they know will draw in more viewers. Having a lesser known actor coming in as a reoccurring character just doesn't make sense, when only a couple of people (one like yourself) think that actor is amazing or something.

 

3 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

Exactly! The personal stuff lasted like five minutes total and Mariska is the lead so we're gonna have to deal with her being the "star" and having more to do than everyone else, who still gets their shine here and there. As long as they keep it to a minimum to please these anti-Olivia and Noah people, they can at least be satisfied with that and not complain so heavy.

Yes it did last about 5 minutes, so I guess they must not of thought it was enough for Benson, so they let her take charge instead of letting the negotiator talk Carlos down when he was suicidal with a weapon. I thought for sure she was going to surrender her weapon again for the umpteenth time.

I thought the both Benson and Noah were OOC when they had there conversations. Benson was too reasonable and not her very concerned self, while Noah was to easygoing when Benson asked him about what happened. later on at the end he got mad at Benson for breaking her promise not to talk about it, when in fact, Benson never promised that in the first place. Considering that Noah is suppose to be 8 (even though he looks older), he sure knew a lot about Gays, Lesbian, and many others. I thought Benson and Noah's situation was suppose to be more about bullying, but they added the woke side into it also.

 

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16 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

The Law and Order Universe has always used actors in multiple roles in various franchises.  It’s like a full employment agency for journeyman NYC actors. 

 

Quote

True, but it helps if they were playing the same characters to establish links between the shows and sometimes when actors come back and they play other characters, it makes no sense. Like Kirk Acevedo for example. He came back to SVU from 2013 onward playing a different character than when he started off as DA Investigator Hector Salazar in Trial By Jury in 2005 who also guest-starred on SVU in a crossover episode. The head scratcher is that in his 2013 appearance, he played a character who worked in the DA's office and knew Barba. But he's not Hector. Why is he not playing Hector!? Then his following SVU appearance, he's playing a new character as a cop. Huh? Hector was a former cop and could have easily gotten back on the force. Kirk could have been Hector in all these appearances to establish a link instead of playing two new characters. I DON'T GET IT.

Eh, many actors have played multiple roles across the Law & Order universe - the first one I can remember off the top of my head is Diane Neal.  She was the murderer in Ridicule, and then showed up a couple of seasons later as ADA Casey Novak.  Paige Turco was also a villain in Ridicule and has showed up in other roles.  Carisi himself was Johnny Dubcek in Monster's Legacy - the one where Coach Ed Asner molested Mike Tyson(!) as a child.  He was also the boy who robbed jewelry stores with his mother on Criminal Intent, and had minor roles on the Mothership and Trial by Jury.  Dan Lauria (Wonder Years dad!) was the father of Missy the villain & Missy's sister the victim - and later played a molesting coach himself.   Wentworth Miller was hotheaded detective Nate Kendall in Unstable - the Defenestration of Mark Foster, leading to the continued unfair incarceration of Victor Tate.  After Miller decided he would only play gay characters, he came back as Isaiah Holmes.  

Speaking of Victor Tate - OK, so Mark Foster is dead and can't testify in court to exonerate him.  And Sonya just tells Stabler, "Oh well, nothing we can do to get him out of prison now...cause, reasons...."  And then goes to Stabler & Benson, "Any of you know the Governor?"  Sonya was an ADA.  Sonya knows her boss.  Her boss knows Jack McCoy.  And Jack McCoy fucking well DOES know the Governor!  Ticked me off to no end.

Yeah, I guess this should go in an all episodes thread maybe ;-)

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, kicotan said:

Wow!!! Noah is so woke at 8 years old there really is hope for the future!  LOL

I think they overloaded the episode packing it with brief scenes regarding serious themes of bullying/molestation/online predators/adult victims of molestation/ revenge/ vigilante justice/gender & sexual orientation equality.  The tipping point for me was Noah, casually woke-splaining to his Mom as they stroll along about his experiences with bullying/bullies.  He could be St. Olivia’s disciple and the show could go on forever!

I agree that the ep went in too many different directions. There was some good acting and interesting ideas, but just too much going on.

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3 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

What threw me off from that first scene was Benson herself. She walked in on a very strange scene, yet she just slinked away, making strange faces. I'm speaking as a very shy person who might have slipped away like that, but Olivia, is a head honcho. Her inability to engage in any way was unbelievable.  If Stabler or Amaro had walked in, that bully would have been crapping his pants. 

 

Yeah, that was a little weird, even if they were playing what the kids tried to brush off as a harmless game, you have a child in a cage and Noah looked extremely uncomfortable so Olivia and that other mother should have handled the situation better like "That's not a good game to play Hudson!" I can tell this is likely not the last time we see of this family though. I can see Hudson being a suspect in a future case. 

3 hours ago, dttruman said:

I believe they are only going to give those reoccurring roles to the Big Name guest stars who they know will draw in more viewers. Having a lesser known actor coming in as a reoccurring character just doesn't make sense, when only a couple of people (one like yourself) think that actor is amazing or something.

 

Yes it did last about 5 minutes, so I guess they must not of thought it was enough for Benson, so they let her take charge instead of letting the negotiator talk Carlos down when he was suicidal with a weapon. I thought for sure she was going to surrender her weapon again for the umpteenth time.

I thought the both Benson and Noah were OOC when they had there conversations. Benson was too reasonable and not her very concerned self, while Noah was to easygoing when Benson asked him about what happened. later on at the end he got mad at Benson for breaking her promise not to talk about it, when in fact, Benson never promised that in the first place. Considering that Noah is suppose to be 8 (even though he looks older), he sure knew a lot about Gays, Lesbian, and many others. I thought Benson and Noah's situation was suppose to be more about bullying, but they added the woke side into it also.

 

1. Even lesser known actors deserve their slow build up and callbacks if they return and reprise their roles. 

2. I don't get your point here regarding the Noah stuff to Olivia taking charge to handle Carlos' attempt of suicide. My point is, the Noah stuff didn't take up much time for anyone to be offended or bothered by. Has nothing to with Olivia managing another person's attempt at suicide in a whole other situation.

3. Noah looks his age to me. I don't think he "looks older". I am surprised at how much he knew about the LGBT, but hey, it just may be the generation we're in. Kids apparently know more about that than when I was growing up and his age back in the 2000s. 

1 hour ago, The Wild Sow said:

 

Eh, many actors have played multiple roles across the Law & Order universe - the first one I can remember off the top of my head is Diane Neal.  She was the murderer in Ridicule, and then showed up a couple of seasons later as ADA Casey Novak.  Paige Turco was also a villain in Ridicule and has showed up in other roles.  Carisi himself was Johnny Dubcek in Monster's Legacy - the one where Coach Ed Asner molested Mike Tyson(!) as a child.  He was also the boy who robbed jewelry stores with his mother on Criminal Intent, and had minor roles on the Mothership and Trial by Jury.  Dan Lauria (Wonder Years dad!) was the father of Missy the villain & Missy's sister the victim - and later played a molesting coach himself.   Wentworth Miller was hotheaded detective Nate Kendall in Unstable - the Defenestration of Mark Foster, leading to the continued unfair incarceration of Victor Tate.  After Miller decided he would only play gay characters, he came back as Isaiah Holmes.  

Speaking of Victor Tate - OK, so Mark Foster is dead and can't testify in court to exonerate him.  And Sonya just tells Stabler, "Oh well, nothing we can do to get him out of prison now...cause, reasons...."  And then goes to Stabler & Benson, "Any of you know the Governor?"  Sonya was an ADA.  Sonya knows her boss.  Her boss knows Jack McCoy.  And Jack McCoy fucking well DOES know the Governor!  Ticked me off to no end.

Yeah, I guess this should go in an all episodes thread maybe ;-)

 

 

 

My issue is, don't bring back actors/actresses to play new characters especially ones that have played a role just one or two years (or in Jeremy Sisto's bizarre case on L&O, the PREVIOUS DAMN EPISODE) because it's just silly. Then you look back at these episodes and it's like the makers think we forget these people were on as different characters or these episodes don't exist anymore and just one and done. RERUNS IS A THING.

Anthony Anderson for example played a cop on SVU named Blaine who could have very well been the same cop crossed over onto L&O when he became a main cast member, yet they write him in as a new character? I don't get it. You're establishing all sorts of twins and triplets and quads into this universe doing things like this and I find that a lot of the people who return can very well be playing a previous character they appeared as the first time, especially if this is many years later and that character would have served their potential incarceration time if a criminal.

I saw an episode of L&O which had Eric Bogosian on it playing a lawyer. I'm like, his CI character could have been this dude who went from lawyer to becoming a cop to establish a nice callback to this character we saw one time. I would have totally done that instead of leaving it as a one and done. As I stated, both Kirk and Jon could have been reprising their roles they played the first time when brought back into the L&O universe in new stories and link back to the shows they were on the first time. MISSED OPPORTUNITIES. 

Edited by TotalDrama
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40 minutes ago, Zoe said:

Speaking of recycled actors, I'm surprised nobody mentioned Johnny D's Pilar returning as the girlfriend here. 

OMG. I had to look it up to see how right you are and load and behold, you are. Tsk. Tsk. It would be better if she WAS the girlfriend, given Pilar was released back in Season 16. MISSED OPPORTUNITIES. The woman appears in three episodes as the same character and you bring her back a few years later as SOME ONE ELSE? I swear....I can't....I feel like strangling myself at this rate. Can we FIRE Warren Leight please? Make me the showrunner, I'd do things correctly when it comes to these returning actors. -_-

You see people? THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Maya could have been PILAR! Carlos, could have been PACO. We could have linked SVU and CI together and continued two different character arcs at ONCE in the same episode. I'm crying.....

Edited by TotalDrama
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3 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

I can tell this is likely not the last time we see of this family though. I can see Hudson being a suspect in a future case. 

I'm still cracking up that the bully's name is Hudson!  Is he gonna go to Rape/Murder Capital of NYC University??

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On 1/12/2022 at 2:57 PM, Xeliou66 said:

The case this week seems to have the potential to be interesting, but why oh why do they have to force in a Noah subplot? No one likes the brat except for the Benson superfans, but the show is all about showing how wonderful St Olivia is and Mariska no doubt loves playing super mommy and I’m sure it will end with Benson saving the day with whatever is going on with Noah. I’m so sick of the St Olivia and Noah hour. 

Well, now we know why they forced the Noah subplot.  It was the vehicle for Noah to announce that he's bi.

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On 1/13/2022 at 6:09 PM, dttruman said:

The guy playing the child molester nailed the part. He is both creepy and sinister! I hate it when the parents want vigilante justice, but when they don't get it, they don't want their child to testify because it's too traumatic for them. That is just way too inconsistent,

Tino could have testified for court via video where he would be in a supported, controlled environment, which is better than live courtroom trauma for a child.  But they just wouldn't hear of it.

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I really liked this episode except for the Noah crap.  I thought this was one of the better episodes this season,  the twist with Carlos was pretty well done and the guy who played the predator was creepily good in his portrayal.  I really wish they would get rid of all the “very special” moments with Noah. They always seem like they are just shoehorned in PSAs.  I’m not sure if it’s the writing or I just don’t particularly care for the kid’s acting, but it’s all so cringeworthy.  As always, not enough Fin.

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16 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

. I don't get your point here regarding the Noah stuff to Olivia taking charge to handle Carlos' attempt of suicide. My point is, the Noah stuff didn't take up much time for anyone to be offended or bothered by. Has nothing to with Olivia managing another person's attempt at suicide in a whole other situation.

My point is I think the producers didn't think Hargitay was getting enough face time and dialogue, so instead of letting the negotiator talk Carlos down, they wanted to give Benson more mock heroics time. If you have seen many scenarios like this, Benson always drops her gun to get the person to trust her, and then some how reasons with that person to surrender, which is totally against protocol.

 

16 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

3. Noah looks his age to me. I don't think he "looks older". I am surprised at how much he knew about the LGBT, but hey, it just may be the generation we're in. Kids apparently know more about that than when I was growing up and his age back in the 2000s. 

I thought Noah looked a couple of years older than that kid that was kidnapped and he was was suppose to be 8 years old. I thought the producers and writers manipulated that scene about Noah to cater to the Woke group, as some commentator has before mentioned before me.

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10 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Well, now we know why they forced the Noah subplot.  It was the vehicle for Noah to announce that he's bi.

I thought he was saying that as an excuse to get Hudson to stop bullying him and to stand up for that other kid he was talking about

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18 hours ago, TotalDrama said:

Noah looks his age to me. I don't think he "looks older". I am surprised at how much he knew about the LGBT, but hey, it just may be the generation we're in. Kids apparently know more about that than when I was growing up and his age back in the 2000s. 

 

He's a kid growing up in NYC.  He would have friends with a variety of parents and I'm sure that Olivia would have explained the different types of relationships to him.

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1 hour ago, meatball77 said:

He's a kid growing up in NYC.  He would have friends with a variety of parents and I'm sure that Olivia would have explained the different types of relationships to him.

I can agree with these comments, but what I don't think or don't understand is how a kid of 8 years old decides if he is gay, straight, or bi. Maybe in another 6-8 years.

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This episode confused me. Usually pedos on this show are shown to be scaredy cats who are at least a little ashamed of what they did. But this guy was practically bragging about it and standing up to the kids father and uncle. I thought he had some hidden plan besides just hoping the jury believed his half assed fake story.

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3 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I can agree with these comments, but what I don't think or don't understand is how a kid of 8 years old decides if he is gay, straight, or bi. Maybe in another 6-8 years.

 

1 hour ago, meatball77 said:

He's a kid growing up in NYC.  He would have friends with a variety of parents and I'm sure that Olivia would have explained the different types of relationships to him.

My biggest issue with the ending scene with Noah was that his dialogue sounded kind of ridiculous for a kid his age, and it felt more like a PSA about how everyone should be accepted for who they are and designed to make St Olivia look super enlightened by having such an enlightened kid. I bought that Noah might know he’s bisexual, I mean I think I’ve always known I was straight, but the dialogue he used just didn’t feel real, it felt more like dialogue from a PSA against bullying than a realistic dialogue between mother and son. Again it was just done to make Benson/MH look great. 

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I've been watching L&O: SVU since it's inception.  Over the past two years I stopped recording but came back to it. After this past weeks episode I've deleted it for good.  It's way too WOKE for me.  An 8 year old child knows he's BI?!!  If I wanted woke, I watch I Am Jazz.  Tired of Benson too. 

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29 minutes ago, Lexi Abbott said:

I've been watching L&O: SVU since it's inception.  Over the past two years I stopped recording but came back to it. After this past weeks episode I've deleted it for good.  It's way too WOKE for me.  An 8 year old child knows he's BI?!!  If I wanted woke, I watch I Am Jazz.  Tired of Benson too. 

I have been constantly disappointed over the last few years, but every now and then a good episode pops up

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On 1/13/2022 at 8:14 PM, Xeliou66 said:

The only glaringly bad part of the episode was Noah, that stuff was just cringeworthy and awful. I’m so sick of them shoehorning the brat into scenes or having something going on with him that ties in loosely and clumsily into the theme of the case, it gets so tiresome, this isn’t a family soap opera, or at least it shouldn’t be. I don’t care about the constant drama surrounding Benson/Noah, and Noah basically had more dialogue than Fin tonight. What a joke. So the beginning and ending of the episode really dragged down the show. 

I agree with everything you said about Noah. However, I was surprised they (St. Olivia) didn't make a big deal out of him being bullied. I actually thought the episode was going to be about the kid that had Noah in the cage. Perhaps a missed opportunity for St. Olivia to shine???

Edited by preeya
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7 minutes ago, preeya said:

I agree with everything you said about Noah. However, I was surprised they (St. Olivia) didn't make a big deal out of him being bullied. I actually thought the episode was going to be about the kid that had Noah in the cage. Perhaps a missed opportunity for St. Olivia to shine???

I wouldn’t be shocked if the writers brought him back as a perp since they love Benson/Noah drama. It made me laugh that the bully’s name was Hudson, since we all know about the cesspool that is Hudson University and all the cases SVU have dealt with there. I wonder if that was an inside joke on the writers part. 

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