S11.E02: Episode 2

[OtterMommy]

Quote

 

At the monthly cytology clinic, Sister Frances comforts a young woman who is struggling with a life-changing diagnosis. Lucille supports a difficult mother.

 

At the monthly cytology clinic, Sister Frances comforts a young woman who is struggling with a life-changing diagnosis. Lucille supports a difficult mother.

[MissLucas]

It was a good episode. I liked how they handled Miss Higgins, first being traumatized and then over time showing her idiosyncrasies without ever overdoing the old maid jokes. For someone who had to fight so hard for a bit of independence the thought of losing it must have been terrifying. And of course she had no idea how to fit into a communal lifestyle. I'm glad Sister Julienne found a solution that worked for everybody in the end. Sister Monica Joan furiously stopping Sister Hilda from escaping the recorder concerto cracked me up. Even better was Nurse Crane in the final scene surreptitiously checking her sandwich if it was up to the standards previously laid out by Miss Higgins. The lily of the valley gift was lovely.

Lucille's plot bugged me a bit. I know what they were going for but it's not that long ago in the show's history that we saw desperate women being denied contraception and several horrific plots about botched abortions. Now all of a sudden talking to someone about a contraception is a horrible thing? And the social worker's concerns were not wholly unjustified. Mrs Thomson refusal of all help took its toll on her oldest and caused him to shoplift. And when she found out she got abusive. She also cheated her way out of paying rent as a plan for getting time for childcare. It really irked me that the social worker got almost demonized for doing her job even if she overstepped in the last scene - which can be partially explained by her not knowing that Mr Thomson was no longer around. I also was not a fan of Lucille and especially Cyril's sanctimonious approach to the issue but that was in character.

The cervical cancer storyline was heartbreaking. But it was another example of how Sister Frances has grown. She did a wonderful job supporting both husband and wife. I loved that last shot of her bringing a fashion/hairstyle magazine to Mrs Cowper. And yes, hair stylists do make us feel better, one of the many lessons of the last two years.

Edited January 11, 2022 by MissLucas

[bybrandy]

I like that the advice to both of them was to get through the surgery and heal before making an decisions one way or another about adoption to let themselves heal and figure out life from where they are now.  And I am totally rooting for her and her new career because seriously a good hairdresser is gold!!!!   

I liked at the very start seeing the nuns at their morning moments.  Especially Sister Hilda clearly having fallen asleep in the middle of an Agatha Christie novel.  I also love Sister Hilda saying she'd buy a car to help Miss. Higgins move.  HEE.  I don't know when she became my favorite nun but she totally is killing it this season.   But so is Sister Francis.  She's grown so much!   

[chitowngirl]

Bumping up. This episode is available on Passport for those who want to get ahead…or free up Academy Awards night!

[ChelleGame]

On 1/10/2022 at 6:04 PM, MissLucas said:

Sister Monica Joan furiously stopping Sister Hilda from escaping the recorder concerto cracked me up.

This tickled me so much. The look: don't you dare leave. So funny.

[EllaWycliffe]

On 1/10/2022 at 9:37 PM, bybrandy said:

I also love Sister Hilda saying she'd buy a car to help Miss. Higgins move.  HEE. 

Sister Hilda was close to "I'd hunt that burglar down, skin him while alive, and then set him on fire if that would help the move out" hee hee hee.

 

[LittleIggy]

Why didn’t anyone tell Miss Higgins to make her own damn sandwich? 

[EllaWycliffe]

4 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Why didn’t anyone tell Miss Higgins to make her own damn sandwich? 

Because everyone is so very British ;)

[libgirl2]

On 1/10/2022 at 8:04 PM, MissLucas said:

It was a good episode. I liked how they handled Miss Higgins, first being traumatized and then over time showing her idiosyncrasies without ever overdoing the old maid jokes. For someone who had to fight so hard for a bit of independence the thought of losing it must have been terrifying. And of course she had no idea how to fit into a communal lifestyle. I'm glad Sister Julienne found a solution that worked for everybody in the end. Sister Monica Joan furiously stopping Sister Hilda from escaping the recorder concerto cracked me up. Even better was Nurse Crane in the final scene surreptitiously checking her sandwich if it was up to the standards previously laid out by Miss Higgins. The lily of the valley gift was lovely.

Lucille's plot bugged me a bit. I know what they were going for but it's not that long ago in the show's history that we saw desperate women being denied contraception and several horrific plots about botched abortions. Now all of a sudden talking to someone about a contraception is a horrible thing? And the social worker's concerns were not wholly unjustified. Mrs Thomson refusal of all help took its toll on her oldest and caused him to shoplift. And when she found out she got abusive. She also cheated her way out of paying rent as a plan for getting time for childcare. It really irked me that the social worker got almost demonized for doing her job even if she overstepped in the last scene - which can be partially explained by her not knowing that Mr Thomson was no longer around. I also was not a fan of Lucille and especially Cyril's sanctimonious approach to the issue but that was in character.

The cervical cancer storyline was heartbreaking. But it was another example of how Sister Frances has grown. She did a wonderful job supporting both husband and wife. I loved that last shot of her bringing a fashion/hairstyle magazine to Mrs Cowper. And yes, hair stylists do make us feel better, one of the many lessons of the last two years.

That scene with the recorder was really funny. 

The whole contraception story line was odd. Yes, the social worker was very assertive but she didn't need to be written that way. 

The cervical cancer story line hit very close to home. I was lucky I had a child and never planned on having more than one to begin with, but any chances were gone. 

 

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

without ever overdoing the old maid jokes.

I really though they overdid the stiff, set in her ways, old maid thing.   I don't think they've ever present Miss Higgins as stupid, and yet they have her displaying the emotional intelligence of an ashtray.   She isn't bright enough to realize that everyone (including her) has their own idiosyncrasies?   Living alone has deprived her of basic manners?  I thought they could have done so much more with her story.

 

[Mermaid Under]

31 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

I really thought they overdid the stiff, set in her ways, old maid thing.   I don't think they've ever presented Miss Higgins as stupid, and yet they have her displaying the emotional intelligence of an ashtray.   She isn't bright enough to realize that everyone (including her) has their own idiosyncrasies?   Living alone has deprived her of basic manners?  I thought they could have done so much more with her story.

 

 

[Dehumidifier]

Why didn't Miss Higgins call the office and tell them she would be late to work because she was burgled?

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

I really though they overdid the stiff, set in her ways, old maid thing.   I don't think they've ever present Miss Higgins as stupid, and yet they have her displaying the emotional intelligence of an ashtray.   She isn't bright enough to realize that everyone (including her) has their own idiosyncrasies?   Living alone has deprived her of basic manners?  I thought they could have done so much more with her story.

 

Really. She spends her days scheduling people and it didn't dawn on her that a long session in the communal  bathroom on a busy morning would be a bad thing?  She didn't know that when someone shares their room with you, you don't complain about their short exercise routine?

Until now she was portrayed as a very sensible and polite woman and didn't she and Nurse Crane go on holiday together one time?

So sorry about what happened to you Libgirl!  I'm glad you had your one child first. One child left me completely satisfied, too.

I agree that the contraception story was odd. I thought we were going to get into an interesting debate about whether birth control was a good thing or not and it just all turned into a personal choice thing, which it is, but boring.

If I had been a social worker in Poplar I would have had to muzzle myself to keep from pushing birth control on one and all.

Edited March 28, 2022 by JudyObscure

[EllaWycliffe]

1 hour ago, Dehumidifier said:

Why didn't Miss Higgins call the office and tell them she would be late to work because she was burgled?

This I could actually buy was due to how upset she was over the burglary.

2 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

I really though they overdid the stiff, set in her ways, old maid thing. 

This. She was WAY too obnoxious and rude to everyone about having her own way, particularly when she's previously been portrayed as very polite. Mind you, I think this was done entirely to force Mrs. Higgins into directly living within walking distance of Nonnatus house. I will simply point out that if Tom and Barbara's house has just been sitting there for years why haven't irritating priests and extras been put there instead of in closets in Nonnatus House?

22 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

agree that the contraception story was odd. I thought we were going to get into an interesting debate about whether birth control was a good thing or not and it just all turned into a personal choice thing, which it is, but boring.

I saw what the social worker was going for - Mom can't afford more kids blah blah blah, and I got the tone of "we want the POOR people to get their tubes tied" loud and clear and I think that was very real and very much had a touch of snobbery involved. Pretty sure someone at Matthew's wealth level wasn't getting the contraception lecture. 

At the same time, I was a little "how many more babies do you think this woman can have??" - she was kind of old for a mom. (I get this thought when I watch The Handmaid's Tale where Elizabeth Moss is not exactly a spring chicken these days)

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

This I could actually buy was due to how upset she was over the burglary.

This. She was WAY too obnoxious and rude to everyone about having her own way, particularly when she's previously been portrayed as very polite. Mind you, I think this was done entirely to force Mrs. Higgins into directly living within walking distance of Nonnatus house. I will simply point out that if Tom and Barbara's house has just been sitting there for years why haven't irritating priests and extras been put there instead of in closets in Nonnatus House?

I saw what the social worker was going for - Mom can't afford more kids blah blah blah, and I got the tone of "we want the POOR people to get their tubes tied" loud and clear and I think that was very real and very much had a touch of snobbery involved. Pretty sure someone at Matthew's wealth level wasn't getting the contraception lecture. 

At the same time, I was a little "how many more babies do you think this woman can have??" - she was kind of old for a mom. (I get this thought when I watch The Handmaid's Tale where Elizabeth Moss is not exactly a spring chicken these days)

I'll give Miss Higgins and the writers a pass because that recorder scene was gold.

I know what you mean about the woman being a bit older for being a mom. Her odds of having a special needs baby increases. I don't think she would be able to handle it. 

[EllaWycliffe]

17 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

'll give Miss Higgins and the writers a pass because that recorder scene was gold.

It was, I just think it could have been done without Mrs. Higgins also being horrifically rude over the bathroom/Phyllis's morning routine/the meals/the sandwich/etc

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

It was, I just think it could have been done without Mrs. Higgins also being horrifically rude over the bathroom/Phyllis's morning routine/the meals/the sandwich/etc

I don't think she thought she was being rude. 

Sometimes people are very different in private as opposed to public, especially work. I guess it is just that way with her. 

[EllaWycliffe]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't think she thought she was being rude. 

And yet she was being rude. The sandwich thing I can forgive - the obnoxious bathroom hogging, no. I don't care how set in one's ways someone is - when you're in a new place with a communal bathroom, you don't just get into the bathroom and tell everyone else they'll need to wait for at least an hour with NO prior notice. 

I actually think the recorder thing was a genuine "she was trying to do something nice" for the nuns things. 

[libgirl2]

5 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

And yet she was being rude. The sandwich thing I can forgive - the obnoxious bathroom hogging, no. I don't care how set in one's ways someone is - when you're in a new place with a communal bathroom, you don't just get into the bathroom and tell everyone else they'll need to wait for at least an hour with NO prior notice. 

I actually think the recorder thing was a genuine "she was trying to do something nice" for the nuns things. 

Then maybe she realized how rude or difficult she was being? 

[Daff]

I thought the funniest scene was the “recorder concert”. Whooped out loud when Sr. Hilda tried to escape, and again at Sr. MJ slapping her book (that look!) and Sr. Hilda simpered back into her seat. When the mother was leaning near the sink, I thought, if the son was so concerned, why doesn’t he help around the house. I was relieved to see after the birth, he was doing just that. I, too, thought the whole SW situation was a bit strong-not her job to dictate how folks live to begin with, but Lucille was right: there’s a time and place. The social worker’s headstrong insistence probably caused the woman’s reluctance to even let her in the door. She needed to be more tactful. 

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, Daff said:

I thought the funniest scene was the “recorder concert”. Whooped out loud when Sr. Hilda tried to escape, and again at Sr. MJ slapping her book (that look!) and Sr. Hilda simpered back into her seat. When the mother was leaning near the sink, I thought, if the son was so concerned, why doesn’t he help around the house. I was relieved to see after the birth, he was doing just that. I, too, thought the whole SW situation was a bit strong-not her job to dictate how folks live to begin with, but Lucille was right: there’s a time and place. The social worker’s headstrong insistence probably caused the woman’s reluctance to even let her in the door. She needed to be more tactful. 

Yes, especially if she really does want to help. I do agree from another posts that it did smack of snobbery or at least be taken that way by the woman. 

[Daff]

3 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Then maybe she realized how rude or difficult she was being? 

So the entertainment was by way of an apology as well as a thank you? Within her trauma (combined with the fact that she’s been YEARS on her own), I honestly think she didn’t realize in the moment that she was hogging the bathroom. One would hope during her use of it, the fact occurred to her. That scene didn’t sit right. 

[Suzn]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

It was, I just think it could have been done without Mrs. Higgins also being horrifically rude over the bathroom/Phyllis's morning routine/the meals/the sandwich/etc

I agree, but if she hadn't already been a PITA, they would have been more inclined to be patient with the musical entertainment.  It was definitely odd how rude and demanding she was when I would have more expected her to be very grateful and gracious to be taken in.  It was hilarious how they were suddenly anxious to find Miss Higgins a new home!

[LadyChaos]

Oh...Miss. Higgins' musical performance.

[Blackie]

WOW did CTM get new writers, new editors, have they been reading my posts?

That was the second good episode in a row, with 2 good main plots and a couple side plots that were related to main plots but also advanced the whole overall story. No random quick edits. Seems like their are really limiting Trixie stories, I guess because of her pregnancy. This is giving more time for lesser character stories to build and not have to be squeezed in here and there.

I liked the social worker story. Once contraception became available, I can see how that people in power thought it was a great idea for poor people , "problem" people to be using it and limiting their family size. Lucille was supporting the mom to make her own choices free from judgement of others. 

[Daff]

18 minutes ago, Blackie said:

I can see how that people in power thought it was a great idea for poor people , "problem" people to be

…..    Yes. Not just contraception. An epic, eternal, problem, especially relevant today. Too much focus on the “live” while ignoring the “let live.”

[EllaWycliffe]

54 minutes ago, Daff said:

 Yes. Not just contraception. An epic, eternal, problem, especially relevant today. Too much focus on the “live” while ignoring the “let live.”

And yet there's the other side to this as well - its fair to say this woman really can't afford the children she has but when offered the chance to stop having children she can't afford, she's choosing to continue giving herself the option to have more. Even though she can't afford to have more, she has the *right* to have more and society will just have to pay for it, and 18 years down the road her daughter having been raised in grinding poverty just might continue making poor choices. Its hard, because I see both sides - its not *right* to tell someone they're too poor to have more children but at the same time, they do cost money.

Sorry - I lost a friend, a male friend, over expressing the opinion after hearing him complain quite a bit how the US Welfare system isn't helping him as much as he deserves and he's pretty much been on disability (for to be very fair some serious health concerns) his entire adult life and has five kids with two different women, with four of them diagnosed autistic, one quite severely, that maybe considering his health issues, he should consider getting a vasectomy. Yeah that didn't go over well, complete with me being some sort of "people in poverty" bigot and how he will have as many children as he wants and no one can tell him he's not worthy to breed. Now, I am more than fair when I say I didn't come at it from a nice place so I deserved some of his reaction but... we are talking about someone who was routinely begging all known associates for help with the kids and their *pet bills* and maintaining cable in his own home and their seperate homes because "the kids deserve it" and crying how the vet suggested he put a pet down because he couldn't pay for any treatment... doesn't put it down, and then announces the cat is pregnant because he could never afford to get it spayed. So lots of bad life choices being made and yet he gets to decide to keep bringing kids into his chaos.

I'm in no way advocating "poor people should breed less by force - I was suggesting a vasectomy in part because he was *worried* that he couldn't afford more kids - but at the same time, its really the kids born into the situation who pay the price. The woman in this episode was clearly living in poverty, the social worker could have been a LOT less asshole-ish over why the mom needed her tubes tied but was it really a revolting suggestion? For all that Lucille and Cyril were prissy on how all children were welcome, they weren't offering to raise someone else's child.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

its really the kids born into the situation who pay the price.

Well said.  Of course everyone has the right to have as many children as they want, but to keep having children when the ones you already have are living in squalor, without the basic needs of food and clothing, then exerting that right to have more seems very selfish to me.  It will mean even less for the children who are already there.

[Daff]

12 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

but was it really a revolting suggestion?

No, of course not. It was the logical choice, given her situation. I didn’t mean to imply that the suggestion was revolting, just the barnstorming method of delivery. You both make very valid points above, and I do agree, there are two sides to the issue, but to simplify, I was considering the bigger picture: “the social” should not be allowed to mandate “correct” choices, and making the parallel to today’s “canceling” of those who are “wrong-thinking”. 

[Badger]

So far, whenever abortion is mentioned on the show, it's always in context of it being necessary and/or justified due to poverty, and/or other negative factors that would make it very difficult for the woman and/or her partner and/or family to have another child.

However, pro choice is not the same thing.  That's the idea that a woman should be able to have an abortion for any reason she chooses.  How will the show handle that?  

[dubbel zout]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

How will the show handle that?  

I wonder if it will. For all the topics the show covers, it mainly sticks to the least controversial aspects of them.

[jpgr]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

So far, whenever abortion is mentioned on the show, it's always in context of it being necessary and/or justified due to poverty, and/or other negative factors that would make it very difficult for the woman and/or her partner and/or family to have another child.

I'm not sure I agree with this. There was Trixie's friend who died - she was married and stable, just didn't want to have another child and had the abortion (I think) without her husband knowing. There was the sister who wanted to be a model. She was single, and I know there was a huge stigma to being an unwed mother but we've seen adoption and single motherhood in other storylines, but she chose abortion.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, jpgr said:

I'm not sure I agree with this. There was Trixie's friend who died - she was married and stable, just didn't want to have another child and had the abortion (I think) without her husband knowing. There was the sister who wanted to be a model. She was single, and I know there was a huge stigma to being an unwed mother but we've seen adoption and single motherhood in other storylines, but she chose abortion.

I think the thing with Trixie's friend was that they were a working class family that was getting ready to move up to middle class which an extra child was going to make impossible.  

BTW, if anyone has a VPN, the BBC has all the episodes of "Call the Midwife" available on IPlayer.  I've been going back and watching a lot of the earlier episodes.  

[caitmcg]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

the BBC has all the episodes of "Call the Midwife" available on IPlayer.  I've been going back and watching a lot of the earlier episodes.  

In the US, at least, Seasons 1–10 are available on Netflix, though they are the PBS edits.

[susannah]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:24 AM, Blackie said:

WOW did CTM get new writers, new editors, have they been reading my posts?

That was the second good episode in a row, with 2 good main plots and a couple side plots that were related to main plots but also advanced the whole overall story. No random quick edits. Seems like their are really limiting Trixie stories, I guess because of her pregnancy. This is giving more time for lesser character stories to build and not have to be squeezed in here and there.

I liked the social worker story. Once contraception became available, I can see how that people in power thought it was a great idea for poor people , "problem" people to be using it and limiting their family size. Lucille was supporting the mom to make her own choices free from judgement of others. 

I don't believe people have the right to have children they can't support, and expect others to support them. Obvs this wouldn't be a problem for people with higher levels of income. Plus, the more children low income people have, the far fewer opportunities and abilities they will have to try to better their lives. It's not just, "we have the POWER! We will control the babies!" Plus, as noted, the poverty becomes generational.

[MultiMunkee]

Another good episode! I hope they have dropped the off and on “Sister Monica Joan has dementia” storyline. She had some great moments regarding  Miss Higgins.

[Badger]

13 hours ago, caitmcg said:

In the US, at least, Seasons 1–10 are available on Netflix, though they are the PBS edits.

I've read three different versions of the episodes of "Call The Midwife" on NETFLIX.  I have NETFLIX, but I don't watch the show there.  One version is that they use the PBS edit.  Another is they use the PBS edit, but then cut more scenes.  The last is they cut scenes, but they are different cuts than PBS.

I went back and re-watched the show about Trixie's friend who died after having an illegal abortion.  She had two boys - one less than a year old - and she and her husband had just bought a house.  They didn't want any more children and were using a Dutch cap for birth control.  She told Trixie she didn't want to end up like her mother who had seven children in eleven years and had nervous breakdowns as a result; she said that she and her younger siblings had to go into foster care occasionally.   Trixie was sympathetic but said women tend to cope in those situations.  Jeannie later tried to get Dr. Turner to agree to recommend her for a termination on medical grounds, but he said he couldn't justify it.  Later, when he spoke to her grieving husband, it sounded like he thought Dr. Turner was wrong.

I don't think the problem was that abortion was illegal under any and all circumstances; it wasn't.  It was more that rich women could get abortions in circumstances where poor women could not and have them done in clean, safe environments.  

[EllaWycliffe]

57 minutes ago, MultiMunkee said:

Another good episode! I hope they have dropped the off and on “Sister Monica Joan has dementia” storyline. She had some great moments regarding  Miss Higgins.

See, you just can't *drop* that as a storyline without some jerk (like me) commenting that it must be nice to have "magical dementia" where when it creates a poignant storyline, Sr. MJ has it and its touching! But when the nitty gritty aspects of a progressive disorder that claims brain cells are pointed out, well, we just ignore the reality that Sr MJ would likely be incontinent and needing constant help with tending herself. Dementia is not amusingly poignant and touching, its a dirty disease that robs a person of their dignity and after pushing Sr. MJ's decline for super poignancy for years, the fact that she's now just an elderly nun full of pithy wisdom as needed is irritating. It's a progressive disease, she was depicted as having dementia at the very start of the show and it's a little offensive that 11 years later, she's actually better.... although I am sure she'll have a crisis of faith or wander off and get lost for three minutes if needed to create a plot in an episode that needs a side plot.

Please understand - I LOVED the recorder scene this week, and I love the actress playing Sr. MJ. But the dementia storyline is offensive due to its longevity and how it magically comes and goes - remember, at one point she wasn't allowed to answer the phone or do any task unsupervised. Now she's basically fine. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by EllaWycliffe

[Cetacean]

That recorder scene was just the best!  The look on Sr. Hilda's face and her attempted escape thwarted by St. MK's book slap had me laugh out loud.  And the round of applause after the first chorus of Amazing Grace to cut off the recital.  That whole thing was a hoot!

I hand wave most of the rest.  Although I still dearly love this series.

[MultiMunkee]

51 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

See, you just can't *drop* that as a storyline without some jerk (like me) commenting that it must be nice to have "magical dementia" where when it creates a poignant storyline, Sr. MJ has it and its touching! But when the nitty gritty aspects of a progressive disorder that claims brain cells are pointed out, well, we just ignore the reality that Sr MJ would likely be incontinent and needing constant help with tending herself. Dementia is not amusingly poignant and touching, its a dirty disease that robs a person of their dignity and after pushing Sr. MJ's decline for super poignancy for years, the fact that she's now just an elderly nun full of pithy wisdom as needed is irritating. It's a progressive disease, she was depicted as having dementia at the very start of the show and it's a little offensive that 11 years later, she's actually better.... although I am sure she'll have a crisis of faith or wander off and get lost for three minutes if needed to create a plot in an episode that needs a side plot.

Please understand - I LOVED the recorder scene this week, and I love the actress playing Sr. MJ. But the dementia storyline is offensive due to its longevity and how it magically comes and goes - remember, at one point she wasn't allowed to answer the phone or do any task unsupervised. Now she's basically fine. 

I agree, the way they have dealt with dementia has been offensive. I had rather they had handled it realistically, but, since they haven’t, I hope they just forget it, rather than having Sister MJ be charmingly confused when it suits the plot. Dementia is relentless 

[kwnyc]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:48 AM, EllaWycliffe said:

I saw what the social worker was going for - Mom can't afford more kids blah blah blah, and I got the tone of "we want the POOR people to get their tubes tied" loud and clear and I think that was very real and very much had a touch of snobbery involved. Pretty sure someone at Matthew's wealth level wasn't getting the contraception lecture. 

 

Yes, this! And Matthew went to a private doctor to get his scabies wash. Lucille would have intervened if she thought the mother was being abusive or neglectful...she knows when to call in protective services. But the social worker's powers hung over the expectant mother's head: she knew her children could be taken away. She LIKED having children, and was surviving in the Poplar way. 

As for contraception...it wasn't the time to mention it. The social worker's argument that it WAS the time was that the woman would be fucking again in no time and have another child. I think it was a good call for Lucille and Cyril to speak to Violet about it. They are acting as community leaders, which they are becoming the longer they stay and work in the area.

And Sister Frances is really getting to be very good at all the things she does. She has a real gift for compassion and empathy.

[susannah]

I was coming to like Miss Higgins, but after this episode, not so much! I know she was used to living alone and being independent, but how she treated everyone else at the house was beyond rude, and then to complain at the end that THEY were impossible to live with was beyond the pale. The sandwich and the bathroom...!!!!!  It was THEIR home, not hers, and she should have been way more respectful of that, and them. I don't think leaving Phyllis the flowers made up for it at all.  Two scenes that were great, the book slap, and Sr Hilda's offering the use of her car. Sr Frances: 'You don't have a car." Sr Hilda: "I'll buy one!" I don't think Miss Higgins was trying to repay their kindness with that awful "concert." I thought she liked to play, and thought that they should damn well listen to her.

I think the social worker was being a little heavy handed, but I do not think she was wrong. She could have waited a while, though. As I said, I don't think people have the right to have children they can't afford or support, whether they like having them or not. Children are human beings, not possessions. I agree that Lucille and Cyril were being sanctimonious with their " no one has the right to decide who should be born." I also didn't notice them offering to support this family or any other. It seems rather bizarre to me that Lucille would have that opinion, living in Poplar and seeing the conditions that children were forced to grow up in.

I also agree with Ella that Sr MJ does seem to be magically cured of her dementia, and I think that's a bit offensive. It only gets worse, to eventual total care, but she is all fine now, with her "spot on" comments as needed.

I hope Jenny Agutter is well. She was barely in this episode and next week she gets sick, oh dear, so her time may be limited there too.

[JudyObscure]

 

1 hour ago, kwnyc said:

As for contraception...it wasn't the time to mention it. The social worker's argument that it WAS the time was that the woman would be fucking again in no time and have another child.

The social worker seemed to be talking about contraception, but maybe she was thinking about sterilization. 

In  my vague impressions of women's reproductive health over the years, it seems that at that  time, women who already had all the children they wanted were encouraged to have their tubes tied by the doctor immediately after birth. The parts were more readily accessible post-partum.

However, post-sterilization remorse kept coming up, so doctors quit encouraging it.  I expect if you ask most women while they're in labor if they want to have more children they'll say, "Never again as long as I live" followed by expletives.

[EllaWycliffe]

I think ahe, the social worker, was suggesting getting her tunes tied to stop pregnancy. 

[Nialla]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I think ahe, the social worker, was suggesting getting her tunes tied to stop pregnancy. 

Yes, it would have been easier and cheaper to sterilize her versus the ongoing expense of birth control. Plus she could stop the pill at any time, and I'm sure the social worker wouldn't have liked that as it would be too easy to accidentally (or on purpose) mess it up.

Also, the woman said her husband left her, so while I doubt she'd be having another baby very soon, she might very well want to move on with another man one day. A new husband might want his own children with her, and sterilization would take that off the table.

[EllaWycliffe]

To be technical getting one's tubes tied isn't sterilization. It can potentially be reversed.

[susannah]

2 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

To be technical getting one's tubes tied isn't sterilization. It can potentially be reversed.

It boggles my mind that as late as the 70s, I think, doctors would not perform tubal ligations on women without their husbands' permission. It reminds me of the episode with the woman who was taking the pill after three children, and when the husband found out, said, "she wouldn't do that. She knows I want a son." Of course the woman died.

[dubbel zout]

4 minutes ago, susannah said:

It boggles my mind that as late as the 70s, I think, doctors would not perform tubal ligations on women without their husbands' permission.

Men are still trying to control women's bodies. Tale as old as time, alas.

[libgirl2]

6 hours ago, MultiMunkee said:

I agree, the way they have dealt with dementia has been offensive. I had rather they had handled it realistically, but, since they haven’t, I hope they just forget it, rather than having Sister MJ be charmingly confused when it suits the plot. Dementia is relentless 

My mother had it. It was heartbreaking. If she would have known how it left her, she would have begged me to kill her. She went from being a talented, energetic, generous, stylish and wonderful person to sitting in a chair, no longer able to even comb her own hair (and she used to cut and style own). I remember the day she didn't recognize my dad. It was like a knife to our hearts.

If my mom would have been around for covid, she would have sewed  matching masks for various outfits, she always looked sharp. 

58 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Men are still trying to control women's bodies. Tale as old as time, alas.

Yes. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by libgirl2

[caitmcg]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

To be technical getting one's tubes tied isn't sterilization. It can potentially be reversed.

The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology classifies both tubal ligation and vasectomy as sterilization, notwithstanding the potential for reversal, which statistically speaking is hardly a guarantee of potential fertility. This is why, even now, it can be hard for childless women of reproductive age to access tubal ligation: there’s an assumption that they may decide they want a child and regret it.