Memory Lane: Seasons 1-5

[hoodooznoodooz]

Sorry! Lu was speaking so fast, I referenced the wrong child. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Oooh, Aviva is actually showing her true self when Ramona and Sonja blow off her Soul cycle charity event for prosthetics for children. Also she is inserting herself into the Jacques/Lu/Ramona wine tease and Heather's complaint that people shouldn't accuse Jacques of faking his accent. 

[ghoulina]

Aviva makes everything so personal and more dramatic than it needs to be. I didn't mind Sonja missing the Soul Cycle thing, because of her dog. But Ramona's reason (a peel?) was fucking stupid. That being said, Aviva reacted as if they had amputated a child's leg themselves! She is nutso. 

[JakeyJokes]

I just watched this clip last week! My favorite part is Carole, as mediator, says in her TH "Please don't bring up the dog -- anything about the dog," and then Sonja begins sobbing about how her dog pees in the bed and is embarrassed because he is a proud dog.

When this first happened, I thought Aviva handled it pretty well; she seemed more upset about them making her believe they were attending than she was about their actual no-showing. Knowing what a nightmare she became in her later season, I wonder if I would feel the same.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Watched the Pirate Booty Call episode last night. 

The women all tease Carole about Russ spending time with her the previous night. Lu laughs that watching Russ so physically affectionate with Carole makes her realize that it's going to be a long vacation in St. Barths for her without Jacques. That's some interesting foreshadowing.  

I completely forgot that Sonja tells all the women that Tomas, the pirate, is the boyfriend of Carole, the owner of Le Ti. Lu does not give two Fs that he is someone's boyfriend.  

Also, when Lu starts dancing with Ramona and Sonja in front of the mirror at the villa, she reminds me of Dustin Hoffman dancing as Tootsie. 

[jaync]

"Slutty Island" >>>>> "Scary Island"

[BBHN]

For me, no trip has ever beat Scary Island.

Edited September 11, 2017 by BBHN

[WireWrap]

5 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

  

I completely forgot that Sonja tells all the women that Tomas, the pirate, is the boyfriend of Carole, the owner of Le Ti. Lu does not give two Fs that he is someone's boyfriend.  

 

And Sonja knew this as well and knew that Tomas had been with Luann the night before but went for him anyway! 

[ghoulina]

I think Sonja went for Tomas BECAUSE Lu had been with him. It always seems like a competition with those two. 

[BBHN]

Maybe her marrying Tom was Luann's ultimate "fuck you" to Sonja?

[JAYJAY1979]

22 hours ago, BBHN said:

Maybe her marrying Tom was Luann's ultimate "fuck you" to Sonja?

 

And yet Luann didn't even last a year in the marriage.  As I said in another topic on here...karma really is creative with giving people their proper punishment.  Luann being so uppity with Alex over the years....and now Alex is still married, in Australia, and seems happier...while Luann remarried and divorced in less than a year.  Priceless.

[hoodooznoodooz]

53 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

 

And yet Luann didn't even last a year in the marriage.  As I said in another topic on here...karma really is creative with giving people their proper punishment.  Luann being so uppity with Alex over the years....and now Alex is still married, in Australia, and seems happier...while Luann remarried and divorced in less than a year.  Priceless.

I totally agree. She was a supreme bitch to Alex. So condescending and dismissive. 

[breezy424]

Yeah, Lu was a bitch to Alex in Morocco.  But let's not forget that Alex, during her first few seasons, was a total social climber and phony as heck.  Don't get me wrong.  I came to like Alex a lot.  They've both made mistakes.  They both got some karma.  Alex lost her job on the show, and Simon lost his job as well, and they had to go down a different path.  I'm glad it's working out for them.  I have no doubt that Lu will recover from this marriage and find another path as well.

[HunterHunted]

49 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Yeah, Lu was a bitch to Alex in Morocco.  But let's not forget that Alex, during her first few seasons, was a total social climber and phony as heck.  Don't get me wrong.  I came to like Alex a lot.  They've both made mistakes.  They both got some karma.  Alex lost her job on the show, and Simon lost his job as well, and they had to go down a different path.  I'm glad it's working out for them.  I have no doubt that Lu will recover from this marriage and find another path as well.

They're all social climbers. If they weren't, Lu wouldn't have been thirstily glomming on to Carole and her friends in season 5. If they weren't, Lu wouldn't have been so desperate to film with the Beverly Hills Housewives when they were filming in the Hamptons. Yes, these examples only support Lu being a social climber, but she's strangely more obvious than the rest of them. Alex got demoted and stupidly quit.

[BBHN]

Quote

But let's not forget that Alex, during her first few seasons, was a total social climber and phony as heck

But that still doesn't mean that justifies Luan (and also Jill and Ramona) being a nasty passive aggressive bitch to Alex.

[breezy424]

11 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

They're all social climbers. If they weren't, Lu wouldn't have been thirstily glomming on to Carole and her friends in season 5. If they weren't, Lu wouldn't have been so desperate to film with the Beverly Hills Housewives when they were filming in the Hamptons. Yes, these examples only support Lu being a social climber, but she's strangely more obvious than the rest of them. Alex got demoted and stupidly quit.

Did Alex quit?  I thought she was fired along with Jill and Kelly.  No demotion.

The only one that Lu appeared to be thirsty with was Carole's designer friend.  I don' recall anyone else.  I can say many things I don't like like about Lu but she never appeared to be a social climber.  Free clothes?  Yes.  Social climber?  No.  Alex, as much as I came to like her, was a social climber her first few seasons.

[BBHN]

Quote

Did Alex quit?  I thought she was fired along with Jill and Kelly.  No demotion.

No, she was offered a demotion to FOH status, but declined.

Quote

I can say many things I don't like like about Lu but she never appeared to be a social climber.

Given her modest background, I'd say trading in one rich jet-setting European boyfriend for an even richer jet-setting European boyfriend who comes with a title the epitome of being a social climber (if not a gold-digger). 

[HunterHunted]

Just now, breezy424 said:

Did Alex quit?  I thought she was fired along with Jill and Kelly.  No demotion.

The only one that Lu appeared to be thirsty with was Carole's designer friend.  I don' recall anyone else.  I can say many things I don't like like about Lu but she never appeared to be a social climber.  Free clothes?  Yes.  Social climber?  No.  Alex, as much as I came to like her, was a social climber her first few seasons.

Alex was offered a demotion to a friend in season 5. She was supposed to serve as a bridge between Carole and Heather and the existing housewives because it was thought that she had more in common with Carole and Heather. She declined the demotion aka quit.

Sonja is a social climber. "P. Diddy parties on my yacht. I party with John John and Madonna. Madonna was outside my show." Sonja has talked about dating Prince Albert of Monaco. This dude has two illegitimate kids and basically had to imprison his wife to marry him, but people who are interested in nonsense pedigree are happily dropping his name.

Lu has always been a social climber. She moved from LVN to rich Italian to rich French man to to another well off French man. She loved to talk about having manners and being the Countess, when her manners are okay at best mostly because she has a bad habit of using manners to belittle people. Lu was tickled to have someone else around with a bullshit courtesy title until Carole announced that she thought the titles were bullshit. Lu was really thirsty about showing up on RHoBH. It served as a real point of contention between her and Bethenny.

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, BBHN said:

But that still doesn't mean that justifies Luan (and also Jill and Ramona) being a nasty passive aggressive bitch to Alex.

Right. Alex's social climbing and pretensions were obnoxious and annoying at times, but they really had no bearing on the lives of the other housewives. 

[WireWrap]

It was weird that when she was on WWHL recently, Alex only had nice things to say about Luann while she was clear that she wasn't happy with Bethenny at all. LOL

[BBHN]

What did she say about Bethenny other than she wasn't too surprised that her marriage wouldn't last?

[WireWrap]

16 minutes ago, BBHN said:

What did she say about Bethenny other than she wasn't too surprised that her marriage wouldn't last?

She said something about Bethenny not learning/growing and repeating bad behavior. She tried very hard not to get specific about Bethenny, Andy did push (mildly) for a more in depth answer but she refused. Alex did say that she/Bethenny are no longer friends.

[hoodooznoodooz]

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Alex was offered a demotion to a friend in season 5. She was supposed to serve as a bridge between Carole and Heather and the existing housewives because it was thought that she had more in common with Carole and Heather. She declined the demotion aka quit.

Sonja is a social climber. "P. Diddy parties on my yacht. I party with John John and Madonna. Madonna was outside my show." Sonja has talked about dating Prince Albert of Monaco. This dude has two illegitimate kids and basically had to imprison his wife to marry him, but people who are interested in nonsense pedigree are happily dropping his name.

Lu has always been a social climber. She moved from LVN to rich Italian to rich French man to to another well off French man. She loved to talk about having manners and being the Countess, when her manners are okay at best mostly because she has a bad habit of using manners to belittle people. Lu was tickled to have someone else around with a bullshit courtesy title until Carole announced that she thought the titles were bullshit. Lu was really thirsty about showing up on RHoBH. It served as a real point of contention between her and Bethenny.

"Using manners to belittle people." That should have been her tagline.  

[ButterQueen]

On 9/11/2017 at 11:39 AM, BBHN said:

For me, no trip has ever beat Scary Island.

I will never delete Scary Island from my DVR.

Kelly is totally a mean girl, and nut job.

The worst part of rewatching, is having to see Jill.  Ugh!

Sonja was so "Switzerland" back then.

[film noire]

5 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

I will never delete Scary Island from my DVR.

Kelly is totally a mean girl, and nut job.

The worst part of rewatching, is having to see Jill.  Ugh!

Sonja was so "Switzerland" back then.

I want that Sonja back -- insightful, kind, funny and confident -- she's like the evil twin version of herself now.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Aviva might have the most beautiful wardrobe of any NY housewife. And she looks really elegant and stunning most of the time. But, boy, does she become unhinged when she learns that Ramona and Sonja don't want Reid to stay at the villa! I have to admit that I think Reid is a saint to be willing to comfort Aviva and hold her hand so often, if not constantly, but when Aviva is yelling that they should shower Reid with love and gratitude for bringing her to St. Barths, but even Reid is saying, "I don't need that--", at some point Aviva really needs to calm the F down.  

Sonja: Welcome to my trailer!

[ghoulina]

That's Aviva's main problem. She often has a point, but takes it too far. I think that's her insecurity coming out. She KNOWS it's silly that she needs her husband to escort her everywhere, so she bursts in on the defensive. She was just ready and waiting for one of them to slight her, even the tiniest bit, and she was all too happy to flip out on them. 

I did LOVE Sonja's explanation about how white trash can be welcoming too! 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Hee! What seems to stick most in Sonja's craw regarding Aviva's St. Barths Where's My Banner? outburst is that Aviva lumped her in with Ramona. 

[walnutqueen]

On 9/11/2017 at 11:51 AM, WireWrap said:

And Sonja knew this as well and knew that Tomas had been with Luann the night before but went for him anyway! 

Which makes her a dirty third, at the very least.

ETA: and makes HIM a dirty, dirty  bird

Edited September 17, 2017 by walnutqueen

[hoodooznoodooz]

Okay, once and for all, I need to know what happened with Sonja and Morgan. Was he sick in the hospital, and instead of staying with him bedside, she was out at clubs, partying? She definitely does not seem to realize how her behavior led to their divorce. It's all about, he was her best friend, she is so upset that she did not get a chance to talk to him-- she could only speak to his lawyer...

I think Heather's husband Jonathan is overlooked as one of the best husbands.  He is so terrific when Aviva is complaining about Ramona and Sonja at the ping pong event. 

There's this short segment with Carole visiting Mario's office to order ping pong trophies. That office is really sad and depressing. Even the signs use sad, silly font. 

[WireWrap]

46 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Okay, once and for all, I need to know what happened with Sonja and Morgan. Was he sick in the hospital, and instead of staying with him bedside, she was out at clubs, partying? She definitely does not seem to realize how her behavior led to their divorce. It's all about, he was her best friend, she is so upset that she did not get a chance to talk to him-- she could only speak to his lawyer...

I think Heather's husband Jonathan is overlooked as one of the best husbands.  He is so terrific when Aviva is complaining about Ramona and Sonja at the ping pong event. 

There's this short segment with Carole visiting Mario's office to order ping pong trophies. That office is really sad and depressing. Even the signs use sad, silly font. 

He was in the hospital then went home and Sonja refused to come home to help care for him. It was rumored that she was cheating on him as well and sadly, I believe she was. 

I agree about Jonathan, he is a great guy/HW husband.

[snarts]

Quote

It was weird that when she was on WWHL recently, Alex only had nice things to say about Luann while she was clear that she wasn't happy with Bethenny at all. LOL

I caught an early Alex episode a few months ago and was surprised to see how well she & Luann got along in the beginning.  When first introduced , they talked a lot of travel, foreign languages, etc.  It wasn't until later seasons that they had their falling out.  I can see Alex preferring Luann's company over the other women.  

[HunterHunted]

On 9/17/2017 at 10:03 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Okay, once and for all, I need to know what happened with Sonja and Morgan. Was he sick in the hospital, and instead of staying with him bedside, she was out at clubs, partying? She definitely does not seem to realize how her behavior led to their divorce. It's all about, he was her best friend, she is so upset that she did not get a chance to talk to him-- she could only speak to his lawyer...

On 9/17/2017 at 10:54 AM, WireWrap said:

He was in the hospital then went home and Sonja refused to come home to help care for him. It was rumored that she was cheating on him as well and sadly, I believe she was. 

 

The rumor was old man Morgan was in the hospital. Sonja was traveling overseas refused to come back and care for him. It's so messed up. She's got a husband sick in the hospital. A young kid who was probably in preschool and being cared for by the nanny and Sonja is off having a grand old time overseas. Though I found this other account that says old man Morgan was cheating.

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/social-diary/2011/the-price-of-playing-sonja-morgan

Who knows. Maybe it was both.

[Mrs peel]

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 0:34 AM, HunterHunted said:

Alex was offered a demotion to a friend in season 5. She was supposed to serve as a bridge between Carole and Heather and the existing housewives because it was thought that she had more in common with Carole and Heather. She declined the demotion aka quit.

Sonja is a social climber. "P. Diddy parties on my yacht. I party with John John and Madonna. Madonna was outside my show." Sonja has talked about dating Prince Albert of Monaco. This dude has two illegitimate kids and basically had to imprison his wife to marry him, but people who are interested in nonsense pedigree are happily dropping his name.

Lu has always been a social climber. She moved from LVN to rich Italian to rich French man to to another well off French man. She loved to talk about having manners and being the Countess, when her manners are okay at best mostly because she has a bad habit of using manners to belittle people. Lu was tickled to have someone else around with a bullshit courtesy title until Carole announced that she thought the titles were bullshit. Lu was really thirsty about showing up on RHoBH. It served as a real point of contention between her and Bethenny.

I guess I make a distinction between being a "social climber" and "climbing the social ladder."  I see Alex (and Sonja) as the first.  Lu?  Well, I can only go by what she said in her special, but I put her in the second.

Alex and Simon were ridiculous with attending the opera to be seen (but no one cared), talking about how much money they spent on (ugly) clothes, looking for their photos in the paper, etc.  They didn't have significant money, they didn't have a social pedigree (which is overrated IMO, but they cared), etc.  They desperately wanted to be seen as UES people though they lived in Brooklyn.  They appeared to be educated people, with professional jobs, but that wasn't enough for them [which is sad]. 

Sonja I see as a bit of a social climber with calling her hostess job in the "restaurant/{what did she call it?} business."  She seated people at tables, she took reservations, stop calling it more than it was (and it was a perfectly respectable job, with the added benefit - to  her - of meeting rich and famous men).  Her repeated claims of "partying with John-John and Madonna" and being on Diddy's yacht, etc. are pretty classic social climber stuff.  She married a guy significantly older than her (does anyone think she ever loved him more than his money?) and attached herself to HIS pedigree even after the divorce.

Lu?  She acknowledges having been a nurse (we could nitpick LPN v RN); she started modeling and from that moved to Europe.  She seems to have met the "rich and famous" though that modeling and TV work, which isn't unusual.  She wasn't the girl getting the coffee and pretending to be the star.  And while marrying the Count and becoming a [<cough> fake] Countess is certainly climbing the social ladder, she seems to have loved him and unlike others [<cough> Sonja] it doesn't seem like she would have married him if she didn't love him.

I'd put Lu more in the Carole class - both came from middle class backgrounds and ended up marrying "up" the social ladder.  We could nitpick that Lu's moving was based on her looks (modeling) v. Carole's education, but both married men with [fake] titles.

[WireWrap]

19 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

The rumor was old man Morgan was in the hospital. Sonja was traveling overseas refused to come back and care for him. It's so messed up. She's got a husband sick in the hospital. A young kid who was probably in preschool and being cared for by the nanny and Sonja is off having a grand old time overseas. Though I found this other account that says old man Morgan was cheating.

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/social-diary/2011/the-price-of-playing-sonja-morgan

Who knows. Maybe it was both.

 There is nothing in this article saying that Morgan cheated on Sonja, the author just says that "John Morgan over the phone chortled when reminded of his transgressions" but gives no timeline when they happened or which wife he was with during said "transgressions", Sonja was wife number 3 of 4. The author of this article is someone that is enthralled with Sonja and has been for a long time, he has written other articles about her and all of them praising her, I get the sense that he, the author, buys into her nonsense talk. Heck, he even says that he believes she has business sense but then fails to acknowledge that she has never had a successful business venture in her life......ever. 

[HunterHunted]

32 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

I guess I make a distinction between being a "social climber" and "climbing the social ladder."  I see Alex (and Sonja) as the first.  Lu?  Well, I can only go by what she said in her special, but I put her in the second.

Alex and Simon were ridiculous with attending the opera to be seen (but no one cared), talking about how much money they spent on (ugly) clothes, looking for their photos in the paper, etc.  They didn't have significant money, they didn't have a social pedigree (which is overrated IMO, but they cared), etc.  They desperately wanted to be seen as UES people though they lived in Brooklyn.  They appeared to be educated people, with professional jobs, but that wasn't enough for them [which is sad]. 

Sonja I see as a bit of a social climber with calling her hostess job in the "restaurant/{what did she call it?} business."  She seated people at tables, she took reservations, stop calling it more than it was (and it was a perfectly respectable job, with the added benefit - to  her - of meeting rich and famous men).  Her repeated claims of "partying with John-John and Madonna" and being on Diddy's yacht, etc. are pretty classic social climber stuff.  She married a guy significantly older than her (does anyone think she ever loved him more than his money?) and attached herself to HIS pedigree even after the divorce.

Lu?  She acknowledges having been a nurse (we could nitpick LPN v RN); she started modeling and from that moved to Europe.  She seems to have met the "rich and famous" though that modeling and TV work, which isn't unusual.  She wasn't the girl getting the coffee and pretending to be the star.  And while marrying the Count and becoming a [<cough> fake] Countess is certainly climbing the social ladder, she seems to have loved him and unlike others [<cough> Sonja] it doesn't seem like she would have married him if she didn't love him.

I'd put Lu more in the Carole class - both came from middle class backgrounds and ended up marrying "up" the social ladder.  We could nitpick that Lu's moving was based on her looks (modeling) v. Carole's education, but both married men with [fake] titles.

I see your point about social climber vs climbing the social ladder, but I don't view LuAnn as all that different than Alex. Lu isn't as obvious as Alex, but it's fairly clear that money and prestige are important considerations for her. She seemed less like a social climber when Alex was there as the benchmark, but she's been really thirsty since season 5. Her entire narrative of her wonderful whirlwind relationship with Tom is nothing, but a bunch of thirsty grasping--8 carat diamond, penthouse, we got the yacht, Palm Beach. Lu did marry up with Alex, but I don't think she'd ever be interested in anyone who had as little money as Jason Hoppy did. Or go to small claims court with a boyfriend to help him get back his $4000 security deposit like Carole did. And perhaps that was Lu's major problem with Carole and Adam--she couldn't see how or why a woman with some money would get into a serious relationship with someone with no real money. We've seen Lu hook up with nobodies, but I don't think she could get into a relationship with someone without money. Additionally when Carole showed up, Lu still loved using her title. It was only when Carole proclaimed that she thought the Countess and Princess courtesy titles to be nonsense that Lu started dialing it back. 

I'd call Carole's family a little bit more middle class, but with a serious bit of blue class origins. The family owned a restaurant. There were were only a handful of kids. The kids went to college. LuAnn's was more working class. Her dad was a contractor. He had 7 kids who lived in a 3 bed 1 bath house. LuAnn is an LPN. It's in her Wikipedia bio. Yes, Carole and Lu both married up the social ladder, but how many years did Andy know Carole before he found out she was a "princess?" They'd been friends for a long time when she jokingly mentioned it at a party. Carole is the hard one to pin down. She did have this prominent career. There seems to be this subset of people who knew her, but didn't know about the "title" and maybe not even the Kennedy family connections. It's hard to say how she knows who she knows. Did she meet Naeem and Ranjana through Carolyn or did she just meet them on her own. Carolyn died in 1999. Naeem launched his line in 2003, but worked for Halston before that.

48 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

 There is nothing in this article saying that Morgan cheated on Sonja, the author just says that "John Morgan over the phone chortled when reminded of his transgressions" but gives no timeline when they happened or which wife he was with during said "transgressions", Sonja was wife number 3 of 4. The author of this article is someone that is enthralled with Sonja and has been for a long time, he has written other articles about her and all of them praising her, I get the sense that he, the author, buys into her nonsense talk. Heck, he even says that he believes she has business sense but then fails to acknowledge that she has never had a successful business venture in her life......ever. 

I took the discussion of his libido and transgressions to mean that he cheated, but you're right there is nothing explicit. The author does seem to think Sonja is fantastic.

[film noire]

4 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

I guess I make a distinction between being a "social climber" and "climbing the social ladder."  I see Alex (and Sonja) as the first.  Lu?  Well, I can only go by what she said in her special, but I put her in the second. (snip for space only)

Excellent post -- felt like "Dominick Dunne for VF" territory  ; )

Edited September 18, 2017 by film noire

[BBHN]

Quote

I see your point about social climber vs climbing the social ladder, but I don't view LuAnn as all that different than Alex. Lu isn't as obvious as Alex, but it's fairly clear that money and prestige are important considerations for her. She seemed less like a social climber when Alex was there as the benchmark, but she's been really thirsty since season 5

Marrying up the social ladder still makes you a social climber. You're just using the marriage to get the position and prestige.

[JAYJAY1979]

I still loved Sonjas Talk I g head during the Aviva/Reid episode in st Barts where she said all Reid did was come with Aviva, that he didn't discover the atom...and that she went to college in Europe pre Reid..and that most people fly there..very few would take a boat.

I often wonder if she makes herself appear crazier then she really is because from season 3 to 5, shes eccentric and delusional, yet had moments of clarity and insight.  Season 6 and thereafter, she lost most of the insightfulness and kept the crazy.

[JakeyJokes]

What season was the one where Sonja thought she was going to meet with her ex husband and gets all dolled up, only to find that he doesn't want to see her and will only have his lawyers speak to her? (I believe this is also the episode in which Ramona hilariously reminds us, "Last time Sonja forgot to bring her notebook, she lost seven million dollars!")

She seemed to really believe that her ex would see her, fall back in love, and she would have her old life again. When the harsh reality hit her that it was never happening, she coped via delusions of self-grandeur, pseudoscience, and booze.

[hoodooznoodooz]

11 minutes ago, JakeyJokes said:

What season was the one where Sonja thought she was going to meet with her ex husband and gets all dolled up, only to find that he doesn't want to see her and will only have his lawyers speak to her? (I believe this is also the episode in which Ramona hilariously reminds us, "Last time Sonja forgot to bring her notebook, she lost seven million dollars!")

She seemed to really believe that her ex would see her, fall back in love, and she would have her old life again. When the harsh reality hit her that it was never happening, she coped via delusions of self-grandeur, pseudoscience, and booze.

I think it is season 5. She spent time thinking about how she should do her hair, makeup and what to wear, which of her "looks" appealed most to him. Then she wasn't allowed to be in the same room as Morgan.

I am still kind of surprised Morgan married her. 

[Mrs peel]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 6:06 PM, film noire said:

Excellent post -- felt like "Dominick Dunne for VF" territory  ; )

<off topic>  Love Dominick Dunne's novels.....thinking of it, need to get  them on Kindle!

[Mrs peel]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 6:11 PM, BBHN said:

Marrying up the social ladder still makes you a social climber. You're just using the marriage to get the position and prestige.

Personally, I think that only applies IF you're using the marriage for that purpose.  I don't have that sense from Lu, I think she really loved the "Count."  

Listen, all of them are social climbers under some of these definitions.  Because none of them (Tinsley possibly excluded /1)) started with lots of money, they were all middle class.  For me, I don't apply the idea that you're a social climber because you/spouse started to make lots of money and you moved to the UES. 

 

/1 And Tinsley, well her ancestors may have been in the US since we were the colonies, but the Mortimer name seems like it was a big step up for her too.  Did she love him, sure, did she marry him for the name, I doubt it.

[BBHN]

Quote

Personally, I think that only applies IF you're using the marriage for that purpose.  I don't have that sense from Lu, I think she really loved the "Count."  

I think she loved the title and prestige that came with the Count just as much.

Quote

For me, I don't apply the idea that you're a social climber because you/spouse started to make lots of money and you moved to the UES. 

I'm not saying she had a mattress strapped to her back when she married the Count (though I can understand why some people might think she did). But her attitude towards Alex and Simon was very hypocritical to say the least.

[film noire]

On 9/20/2017 at 2:54 PM, Mrs peel said:

Personally, I think that only applies IF you're using the marriage for that purpose.  I don't have that sense from Lu, I think she really loved the "Count."  

I agree -- she married him for love, not social standing.

Quote

 I don't apply the idea that you're a social climber because you/spouse started to make lots of money and you moved to the UES. 

Yes -- a spouse doing well doesn't automatically turn you into someone chasing pedigree and status -- two different paths.

Edited September 21, 2017 by film noire
because "pedigee" sounds like an exotic mixed breed dog

[teapot]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

I agree -- she married him for love, not social standing.

Yes -- a spouse doing well doesn't automatically turn you into someone chasing pedigree and status -- two differnt paths.

true story...but I don't think she'd ever even entertain the thought of committing to (or even dating) a guy w/a "normal" workaday job. 

[BBHN]

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true story...but I don't think she'd ever even entertain the thought of committing to (or even dating) a guy w/a "normal" workaday job. 

She did trade in one rich European guy for another rich European guy except the second one came with the a title.

Escalade sociale c'est la vie, c'est vrai c'est vrai...

[Mrs peel]

22 hours ago, teapot said:

true story...but I don't think she'd ever even entertain the thought of committing to (or even dating) a guy w/a "normal" workaday job. 

I'm not sure any of them would do that.  B did so in the past, but she didn't have the mega-bucks herself back then.  And Dorinda's John may not be "UES" standard, but he too has lots of money.

[zoeysmom]

On 9/20/2017 at 10:05 PM, BBHN said:

I think she loved the title and prestige that came with the Count just as much.

 But her attitude towards Alex and Simon was very hypocritical to say the least.

Luann and Alexandre did leave Europe and come to the US to marry.  And they eloped.  I would think if she wanted to make a big splash in European circles, they would have married there or had at least a European wedding at some point.  Alexandre has a film making degree from Northwestern, so he wasn't exactly a stranger to the US.

As to Alex and Simon, Alex has said herself that she and Simon were awful the first season with their attempts at social climbing and all around pretentiousness.  When Luann and Alex first met they hit it off speaking Italian and French in front of befuddled Jill and Bethenny.  Alex and Simon were so delighted when Jill gave them a intro to a private school.  I do believe Alex and Simon only wanted the best for their children, and it was sad to see them get turned down, even by preferred public schools.  Alex once said the producers asked her to claim she was from a wealthy Texas oil family. She wisely refused.  Truth was by the time the show filmed her father had succumbed to Alzheimer's.  Alex called Kansas City her home and had lived in DC, Virgin Islands and Texas.  She also graduated from Northwestern.  I do believe Alex grew up with privilege but her foray into NY society just didn't happen.  Given her chance to help with the Creaky Joints event, she had done nothing.  I did enjoy them but I do think they had to work hard to just be included as they rarely had a story line.  As it stands now, Bethenny and she no longer speak (after Alex had been a very loyal foot soldier), she and Ramona don't stay in touch and she said the person she stays in touch with is Jill.  I am thinking it is a win-win situation all the way around.  She and Alex are both pursuing professional licenses and raising their boys.  

On 9/20/2017 at 11:54 AM, Mrs peel said:

Personally, I think that only applies IF you're using the marriage for that purpose.  I don't have that sense from Lu, I think she really loved the "Count."  

Listen, all of them are social climbers under some of these definitions.  Because none of them (Tinsley possibly excluded /1)) started with lots of money, they were all middle class.  For me, I don't apply the idea that you're a social climber because you/spouse started to make lots of money and you moved to the UES. 

 

/1 And Tinsley, well her ancestors may have been in the US since we were the colonies, but the Mortimer name seems like it was a big step up for her too.  Did she love him, sure, did she marry him for the name, I doubt it.

Tinsley entrance into NY Society had to do with her working for an events company.  She was advised if she wanted to be part of the scene she needed to not be "the help".  She followed the advice and did a good job of creating her "it" girl personality, and marrying Mortimer.  Along the way she met Luann and Sonja at society events.  I am not sure since she met Scott if her focus is going to be on re-entry.  The biggest thing is you need to have money to attend all these galas and sit at the right table with the right people.  The idea of breaking bread with the upper crust may not be on Coupon Cabin Scott's list.   It was not her ex's idea of a good time and he has publicly stated the same.

[BBHN]

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Luann and Alexandre did leave Europe and come to the US to marry.  And they eloped.  I would think if she wanted to make a big splash in European circles, they would have married there or had at least a European wedding at some point.

I don't think Luann really cared where she made her splash, as long as she got to enjoy throwing around the title and had access to the Count's millions. Remember, she doesn't apologize for the Count's her privilege.

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As to Alex and Simon, Alex has said herself that she and Simon were awful the first season with their attempts at social climbing and all around pretentiousness.  

None of which really justifies Luann (and Ramona and Jill) being a snobby bitch to them.

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When Luann and Alex first met they hit it off speaking Italian and French

And it all went downhill after that...

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Alex had been a very loyal foot soldier

Alex had her own beef and issues with Jill and gladly volunteered to get some payback.