S01.E08: The Eye of the World

[paulvdb]

Quote

Season finale. For twenty years, Moiraine has dreamed and worked towards this moment. But she can't stop the Dragon Reborn from seeing the appeal of the Dark.

Premiere date: December 24, 2021

[paigow]

Why are there no wolves around? They could get the horn.

Somebody forgot to change the fortress password every 90 days... 

[Jack Shaftoe]

This episode was Game of Thrones season 8 level bad but without the stunning visuals, so even worse overall. Quite the achievement.

[Anduin]

Ah, Rand. "Oh no, I'm going to go insane. I'd better isolate myself, not surround myself with people who can keep an eye on me, help me." He's brave, he means well, he's not so bright.

All in all, I really liked it. Just... some of everything. Good character stuff, fun action. Still, they held off a little too long IMO. Too much of the king making speeches. Also, crossbows are slow to reload compared to regular ones. Good for one and done, not so much for a horde.

[Meredith Quill]

My thoughts and feelings about the big battle that has been built up the whole season between the dark one and the dragon reborn...may be summed up in the following gifs:

I have no words to add.

 

[UnoAgain]

Man.. I'm super interested In the last dragon... Not this bland one... This felt disjointed... And didn't really explain much of anything... I have no idea what that ending with the tsunami was... Did suck that Moraine basically got gentled... Now she feels what's happened to all those guys... Appreciate padan fain finally telling us non book readers what a taveren was... All so anti climactic... This needed more episodes... Thankfully we know another season is coming.. Cuz if I had to wonder after watching that.. I'd ve nervous

[Danny Franks]

I'm conflicted. There are some things I really loved and some things I really didn't. It felt rushed. This episode and the season openers are the two were I can really see the restriction to eight episodes hurting the show.

I think they needed to show how big a deal Rand was as a channeller, but we didn't see it. I think the idea of the men failing but then the women succeeding is... heavy-handed. And what the fuck is Rand going to have to do now, to show his power levels?

I liked the scenes between Rand and Moiraine. Some nice character stuff, and laying seeds for how their relationship as mentor and mentee might progress.

Really cool character beat - Nynaeve effectively chooses to risk Lan to save Rand. The use of "I will love him if he makes you smile" felt like a goodbye to me - they both think Lan won't return.

I liked Ba'alzamon a lot. Charismatic and confident and I can see why this guy was so good at tempting people to join the Dark One. Fares Fares is great. And him showing off all the crazy shit he can do with the One Power, was cool. I wonder whether he's permanently shielded Moiraine and her season two storyline will be about trying to find out how to undo it?

But Rand defeating him was incredibly anti-climactic. Like, laughably so. I get the whole 'Rand's conflict is internal, juxtaposed with the physical battle that's going on elsewhere' motif, but it just fell really flat when he didn't do... anything much at all.

Look, this episode was more about setting up future seasons, which is what I've been happy for the show to do all along, I just wish they'd done it a little better this time.

A few things - Loial ain't dead, I'm sure. Moiraine apparently can still channel because neither she nor Lan commented on their bond being broken, Mat reappears from B-footage, ready for his brand new face in season two.

I liked seeing Lews Therin and Latra Posae Decume in the cold open, and I liked the high-tech look of everything (also, that cityscape was the same as the decayed remains of a city we saw in the first episode).

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Moiraine apparently can still channel because neither she nor Lan commented on their bond being broken,

I'm guessing Moiraine will be able to regenerate her channeling ability, but there was a comment that went something like:

Lan: Open our bond back up.

M: I can't. The Dark One cut off my power at the source.

The show hasn't really explained too much about how bonds are formed and maintained, other than the generic notion that warder/aes sedai can sense the other's emotions. It could be, I suppose, that another aes sedai could restore it, or that the bond can only be suppressed for so long, or any number of things. 

[Joana]

So... this was it? Talk about an anticlimax. I'm just so beyond tired of TV shows using an entire season to build up the next one without ever actually resolving anything, until inevitably they do need to wrap it up eventually and the final result is a huge mess. It will probably be the same here. You know, it is possible to set up future events while giving the previous storyline(s) at least some kind of a closure, but it requires better and more dedicated writing.

The biggest problem I have with this show, apart from mediocre acting, is that if often felt like a collection of random bits and pieces from every single fantasy show or book ever made, with little originality to add. This episode was no different.

My verdict is: better than Shadow and Bone, not as good as The Witcher. 

[Black Knight]

I haven't watched this ep yet, but I was walking around the neighborhood last night looking at all the Christmas displays, and when I passed by one house I could see Wheel of Time queued up on a TV, ready to go. That made me smile. I hope the neighbors were more pleased than disappointed when it was over...they were obviously anticipating the season finale.

[DoctorAtomic]

Rushed is an apt summation. 

I don't mind that the finale was a set up, but you kind of need a little more to stick the landing for the season too. 

To be fair, Rand did channel for real, so that was good. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by DoctorAtomic

[DearEvette]

Well, huh.  ok. Huh.

First the good stuff:

- Lews Therin Telamon.  Not the prologue I wanted to see, but still we got Lews.

 - Nynaeve and Lan.

- The effects of showing the women burned out of using too much of the One Power.

- The arrival/look of the Seanchan (the was pretty spectacular and the visual concept is really interesting)

The odd stuff:

- The death fake outs -- why?  so not necessary.

- Not sure why they didn't have everyone go to the Eye and why the weird vision with Egwene

The Bad stuff:

- Rushing the story.  The whole ending at the Eye.  It was murky.  Was that supposed to be The Dark One or Ishmeal? Moiraine called him The Dark One.  But he wouldn't reveal himself so early. 

Overall-

Not Bad.  With a few major exceptions it stuck with the plot of the first book.  But I feel like by dividing the action between Fal Dara and the Eye, it diluted the impact.  At this point we really don;t care about Fal Dara.  But we do care about the Two Rivers Five. I think it would have hit better if all the action was centered on them, it worked beautifully for the Trolloc attack in the first episode and  imo woul dhave been done just as well with this now that the stakes were much higher. I also think action at the Eye with all five there would have been perfect for the Dragon Reborn.  Again bigger impact.  But obviously, the Mat actor's absence probably had something to do with that and maybe that is why they couldn't do it that way?

Still, I can't get too mad at it.  There is still so much story left that ultimately this really was an opening gambit.

[paigow]

If the Dark One needed all 5 dragon candidates alive at the Eye, why try to kill Mat and Rand at Mos Eisley?

[MissLucas]

Me seeing the women on the ships in the last scene conjuring a tsunami: Oh look, they've got Squallers!

Also me during the last episode of the Witcher: Why is noone talking about Ciri's bad-ass ancestor who killed all those guys in the snow?!?

*makes mental note to better focus on what franchise she's actually watching*

I mostly liked it - probably because it was anticlimactic in the end. I mean there are more season to come so this could never be final Armageddon. Rand realizing that this iteration of Nynaeve was what he wanted but not what she wanted was impressive. And of course the hero has to march off in the end all alone, that's what the trop requires. Until it becomes clear that he needs the others to fulfill his quest/destiny or rather that the others are part of it too. I wish we had gotten a bit more info on what it means to be a focus point of the wheel.

I wasn't particularly vowed by the Dark One (and weird wardrobe choice there). Padan Fain makes for a much more compelling villain, not sure if that's the writing or the actor but there it is.

I really hope they spend a bit more time on world-building and lore in season two. Having 10 episodes would sure help.

Edited December 25, 2021 by MissLucas

[Danny Franks]

19 minutes ago, paigow said:

If the Dark One needed all 5 dragon candidates alive at the Eye, why try to kill Mat and Rand at Mos Eisley?

The Darkfriend was planning to hand them over to the Fade alive.

[Chicago Redshirt]

28 minutes ago, paigow said:

If the Dark One needed all 5 dragon candidates alive at the Eye, why try to kill Mat and Rand at Mos Eisley?

At no point did any of Darkfriends, the Trollocs, the Fades or anyone else actually try to kill Mat and Rand, if we're to trust either the peddler or the Dark One, or for that matter, the barmaid. She said her plan was to capture Mat and Rand, have the Dark One's minions collect them and bring them before the Eye, and get rewarded. Had she wanted to kill them, she certainly had opportunities to poison or stab them when they suspected nothing.

I guess this explains why Nynaeve was still alive after the Trolloc attack. If it had been trying to kill her, it presumably would have succeeded fairly easily. But since it was supposed to capture her, she had an opportunity to get an upper hand. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[thuganomics85]

Definitely a rushed finale here.  Suspect this season would have been better as a 10 episode season.  Amazon wanted to avoid that due to budgetary reasons, but hopefully they will be more open going forward since it sounds like the show has been pretty successful at least.

Surprised there wasn't another swerve here and Rand really was the Dragon Reborn after-all.  Again, he really was the most obvious choice and that's a little disappointing, even though I warmed up to character more compared to the first few episodes.  So, he is able to "defeat" the Dark One by breaking through his hallucinations and channeling the power Moiraine gave him.  But he is now going to pretend that he died in the fight (and Moiraine will play along), because he worries that by channeling, he's already heading down the path of madness and he doesn't want to harm Egwene (or the rest.)  Not sure where he's heading off to now, but I'm sure he'll be back.  Bonus points will be he returns right after something happens between Egwene and Ferrin, because that's usually how things go!

Always like Fares Fares, and I thought he was pretty great as the Dark One.  His outfit felt a little modern which was interesting.  It almost looked like he was smiling/smirking right before Rand took him out, so I wonder if he has another trick up his sleeve.

Unfortunately, the final battle sequence seem to take its cue from from the big battle scenes from Game of Thrones in season eight.  Too dark!

Nynaeve gets the whole big death scene by sacrificing herself to save Egwene, but it looks like she has somehow come back to live at least.  But is Loial totally dead after getting shanked by Padan/the Peddler?  No!!

Lord Agelmar really dropped the ball with preparing for a possible invasion and Lady Amaslia did some questionable things at the end, but credit to them for going out swinging.

Moiraine lost her connection to the power or whatever, so I imagine her enemies in the Aes Sedai will take advantage of that.  Also wonder what it will mean for her bond with Lan.

The high-tech opening flash back was intriguing.

All in all, a flawed season with a few bits that didn't work, but I overall enjoyed it and am looking forward to the next one.  The writing is definitely the shakiest part of it, but I still think the acting generally improved as it went on and there are some good ideas here.  And the scenery is great.  Found more places I want to visit now!  Hopefully the wait won't be too long.

[DoctorAtomic]

18 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

It almost looked like he was smiling/smirking right before Rand took him out, so I wonder if he has another trick up his sleeve.

Ah ha. I will have to check that out on the big screen when I get back home. I watched on my tablet. 

 

[Enero]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I guess this explains why Nynaeve was still alive after the Trolloc attack. If it had been trying to kill her, it presumably would have succeeded fairly easily. But since it was supposed to capture her, she had an opportunity to get an upper hand

This was probably the best thing that came out of this very anti-climatic finale, that the Dark One has an agenda for all (5). Hence why they all manage to remarkably escape death quite frequently. 

I also enjoyed the Nynaeve/Lan scenes, too bad these two can’t just run off into the sunset together.  But with all that’s going on not to mention their personal responsibilities and destinies that dream will never be realized. I find their love story way more believable and compelling than Rand/Egwene.  Could not have cared less when Rand was trying to decide whether to make Egwene his or reject the Dark One. I just didn’t feel the angst and conflict that should’ve been that situation because I don’t feel their love for each other and therefore am not invested in it. That said, I was glad to see that he did chose the light, at least for now. With him now wandering alone in impending madness who knows what choice he may make the next time he’s faced with a choice between the light and dark. 

It was also interesting to hear that Nynaeve’s ability to track the group earlier in the season was due to Moraine having a tell, and thus is trackable. I would’ve loved to have heard the details of how Nynaeve discovered this tell and what the tell is. Will we ever see Matt again? I know the actor suddenly left the show but will the character be recast for season 2? It’s not that I miss the character but I am curious about his current plight considering his destiny.

This episode was pretty disappointing. Overall the season was good, but it feels like not much happened and there’s still quite a few things that have not been clearly explained. Hopefully next season will do a better job of moving the story forward and adding more details to those things that are a bit vague. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Danny Franks]

33 minutes ago, Enero said:

Will we ever see Matt again? I know the actor suddenly left the show but will the character be recast for season 2? It’s not that I miss the character but I am curious about his current plight considering his destiny.

I don't think it's a spoiler to say that Mat will be played by Donal Finn in season two (and beyond, hopefully).

[Chicago Redshirt]

Miscellaneous questions as of the finale (And if the answers are in the books, please spoiler tag 'em):

Any idea what M's plan was prior to Rand declaring himself the Dragon? Had she even attempted any teaching of Channeling 101 with any of the four? It seems from how she was with Rand that she had not. Was it really: well, when your life is in danger, it'll happen and you'll do what you're supposed to? 

The whole "Anyone who goes with the real Dragon to the Eye will die" -- was that all B.S.? Is there an actual prophecy that says that or was it ust the sort of common sense that getting in the middle of two titanic forces means you're likely to get squashed? Because obviously M was there but survived.

Is there any significance to N's no longer being able to listen to the wind? 

What is N's way of tracking M? It really isn't enough to just say "she has a tell." That is kind of meaningless in this context, at least as I understand the term. N hadn't really had an opportunity to see M go anywhere so there would not really be a way for her to predict how she traveled. 

Knowing that M didn't want to be followed and that basically he had no ability to stand against the Dark One, what was L planning on doing on finding them?

Why didn't M bring other Aes Sedai on the quest (other than because genre demands it be a small party)? When the Dark One taunted her about how the last time the Dragon showed up there were 99 people backing him up, it highlighted how it would have been smart to have a lot of Aes Sedai, or even just one more and a warder. 

It's sort of a whiplash from "The Dark One's at his weakest, we have to strike now!" to "Oops, there's this humongous army ready to run over all of humanity that he's gathered," isn't it? Was M just operating on bad information about the Dark One's strength?

Both the evil barmaid and the peddler -- and thus presumably other Darkfriends -- knew that the five of Our Heroes are connected and have a  part to play. Any inherent reason why the good guys didn't really have anywhere near this level of knowledge about Our Heroes?

What is Rand's rationale for not wanting his friends to know that he is the Dragon and/or that he survived this initial confrontation with the Dark One? Won't they just assume he's not the true Dragon and that one of the other four of them is, and put themselves in greater danger? 

Why end the season with the ships of channellers setting up the tidal wave? 

[DoctorAtomic]

21 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Was it really: well, when your life is in danger, it'll happen and you'll do what you're supposed to? 

She's been winging it since they left the White Tower imo. She can't teach Rand to channel. She knows, and she said so. That's why a guy dragon is a big deal. We all saw Rand channeling that the poison was there. I don't think she was bluffing about slitting his throat. I'm glad Rand really stood up and the end there, and I think being able to talk to Moirane one on one and she treating him like an actual person really helped. 

21 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Won't they just assume he's not the true Dragon and that one of the other four of them is, and put themselves in greater danger? 

I had the same concerns. I do think Moirane is certain he is the dragon, so we'll have to wait to see what she tells the others. Ny is going to rip her up one side and down the other for leaving him behind, but I think they will accept he's the dragon. 

No spoilers, just what I'm seeing from the show. 

I think the show did well enough with Moirane and Lan conversing that they really are operating on limited information re: Dragon. Other than that he's been Reborn and his or her general age. 

Don't forget, again, the show said this - they're basically in a post apocalypse world. It's basically like the burning of the library at Alexandria times like a million. No one knows jack about the last age and anyone who does is full of it. They literally spoke another language. 

[paigow]

Are there more of those tiny channel amplifiers? If that was her only one because "horn-in-a-box" got stolen, then the Sith are in control...

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Any idea what M's plan was prior to Rand declaring himself the Dragon? Had she even attempted any teaching of Channeling 101 with any of the four? It seems from how she was with Rand that she had not. Was it really: well, when your life is in danger, it'll happen and you'll do what you're supposed to? 

She showed Egwene a little bit, but then they got separated and she's not had time to do anything else. She may have tried to teach Nynaeve some stuff, in the month they were travelling together, but I can imagine Nynaeve being completely deaf to anything she had to say.

I think she just really hoped that Rand would figure it out when he had to.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The whole "Anyone who goes with the real Dragon to the Eye will die" -- was that all B.S.? Is there an actual prophecy that says that or was it ust the sort of common sense that getting in the middle of two titanic forces means you're likely to get squashed? Because obviously M was there but survived.

Again, this seems more like Moiraine making assumptions, based on the idea that there would be a huge channelling battle between the Dragon Reborn and the Dark One. But there was no battle, because it seems like the Dark One just wanted to suss Rand out rather than fight him.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Knowing that M didn't want to be followed and that basically he had no ability to stand against the Dark One, what was L planning on doing on finding them?

Being noble and dying to protect her, is my guess. That's the job of a warder.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Why didn't M bring other Aes Sedai on the quest (other than because genre demands it be a small party)? When the Dark One taunted her about how the last time the Dragon showed up there were 99 people backing him up, it highlighted how it would have been smart to have a lot of Aes Sedai, or even just one more and a warder. 

In episode six, she and Siuan were revealed to be the only two women who knew the Dragon had been reborn. They don't seem to have shared that with anyone else, for reasons that are probably yet to be revealed.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It's sort of a whiplash from "The Dark One's at his weakest, we have to strike now!" to "Oops, there's this humongous army ready to run over all of humanity that he's gathered," isn't it? Was M just operating on bad information about the Dark One's strength?

I think there are always loads of Trollocs knocking around, waiting to be directed to a battle. I've no idea what they do with their off-time.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Both the evil barmaid and the peddler -- and thus presumably other Darkfriends -- knew that the five of Our Heroes are connected and have a  part to play. Any inherent reason why the good guys didn't really have anywhere near this level of knowledge about Our Heroes?

I would guess that the Dark One has been whispering in their dreams and instructing them. He seems to know more than any of the Aes Sedai do, which would make sense as he was the only one around the last time there was a Dragon.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

What is Rand's rationale for not wanting his friends to know that he is the Dragon and/or that he survived this initial confrontation with the Dark One? Won't they just assume he's not the true Dragon and that one of the other four of them is, and put themselves in greater danger? 

I'm guessing he fears they'll come after him, when he wants to be noble and go away forever, so they don't get hurt when he goes insane.

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Why end the season with the ships of channellers setting up the tidal wave? 

As a hook for season two. Unfortunately they didn't show where those ships were but the only other reference we've had to the sea is Maigan Sedai talking about ships "disappearing in the west."

[Kate47]

Crossing my fingers so hard that everybody gets a wardrobe change in season 2 but especially Rand gets rid of those godawful chaps in his search for anonymity. 

[Zonk]

Good finale for a first season, even if I feel a bit blueballed from the non-fight against the dark one. So I guess his chains have been strengthened, for a bit. That statue was just a placebo, right?

I always find that balance-mumbojumbo in fantasy a bit cringe, especially if the goal of the darkness is to extinguish all light. How is there ever going to be balance maintained with such a setup?

So in the last age they had mini planes but they were still riding horses? Weird.

I guess Rand is the dragon, no question about it. Lame. Would have been more interesting if they'd all been the dragon. I still think it's stupid Moiraine just took his word for it.

At least the writers found an interesting explaination for why they are all different ethnicities but still lived in the same village and even made it important. They probably should have cut the "the old blood runs deep in your village, blabla" stuff from episode two, that was I assume straight from the books. Seems unimportant and misleading for the direction they went with in the show.

Will be interesting to see how they handle the madness next season. I thought the dragon would be excempt, since the last dragon was freed from it, but guess not? Doesn't seem like it effected Perrin so far. Is it because his way of channeling is so different? Does he touch a different part of the source? Or is his power from a different source all together? Maybe the same source the dark one has his power from? That would be interesting.

[Zonk]

On 12/24/2021 at 1:03 PM, Anduin said:

Ah, Rand. "Oh no, I'm going to go insane. I'd better isolate myself, not surround myself with people who can keep an eye on me, help me." He's brave, he means well, he's not so bright.

He is the most powerfull channaler in the world. There's not much to stop him if he goes cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. The last dragon killed all his friends and family. So while I'm not usually one for splitting the party, and get annoyed by it every time, this time it might be warranted.

On 12/24/2021 at 1:31 PM, UnoAgain said:

I have no idea what that ending with the tsunami was...

I have no idea why that ending with the tsunami was. It might be a good first attack in a lot of situations, but that beach had mountains directly behind it. That Tsunami is going to get 100 meters inland and then get stoped by those mountains. What's the point?

On 12/24/2021 at 1:40 PM, Danny Franks said:

Moiraine apparently can still channel because neither she nor Lan commented on their bond being broken, Mat reappears from B-footage, ready for his brand new face in season two.

Moiraine can't channel at the moment. She pretty clearly said she can't unmask the bond because the dark one cut her off from the one power. It will remain to be seen if the other aes sedai can reverse it or not.

23 hours ago, Joana said:

My verdict is: better than Shadow and Bone, not as good as The Witcher. 

fair

23 hours ago, DearEvette said:

 - Nynaeve and Lan.

Oh yeah, almost forgot about that. That one almost made me vomit. Calm down guys, you've known each other for a few weeks and selpt together once. Maybe live together for a week before you declare your undying love.

22 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

But is Loial totally dead after getting shanked by Padan/the Peddler?  No!!

I hope he underestimated how sturdy Ogier are.

Loial weirdly reminds me of Pumat Sol from Critical Role. I wonder if Mat Mercer took some inspiration from the Wheel of Time books or if it is a concidence.

18 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The whole "Anyone who goes with the real Dragon to the Eye will die" -- was that all B.S.? Is there an actual prophecy that says that or was it ust the sort of common sense that getting in the middle of two titanic forces means you're likely to get squashed? Because obviously M was there but survived.

I think Moiraine was expecting a big fight. She said everybody who was there would be ground to dust between the unstopable forces of nature. But what we got was more of a whimper. So like was said in the last episode: She can not lie, but she can be wrong.

Edited December 25, 2021 by Zonk

[paigow]

Rand is headed to Dagobah - who gets to chase him?

[paigow]

16 minutes ago, Zonk said:

Maybe live together for a week before you declare your undying love.

 They know the apocalypse is here, so options are limited...

[Zonk]

2 minutes ago, paigow said:

 They know the apocalypse is here, so options are limited...

Yeah, then just don't do that bullshit. Say "I love you" but not all that other stupid stuff with "I will hate the man you mary but I'll also love him because he'll make you happy" and shit like that. If they really think they are going to die that's just stupid and if they don't, it's waaaaaaay over the top.

[iMonrey]

Well, I gave it all eight episodes, but I guess I'm just not the audience for this. This is the kind of fantasy I have a hard time getting into, because it feels too alien to be relatable. I found the overall premise pretty vague and I never really grew to care about any of the characters, except maybe Mat and Perrin. There is an utter lack of humor, and while I know it's a drama it's just sort of charmless. 

If Amazon announced tomorrow they were cancelling the show, I wouldn't care at all. I doubt I will be back for another season. I don't see this becoming the next "big thing" in terms of mainstream popularity, it's much too niche-specific. I doubt it finds much of an audience beyond fans of the book series.

[shrewd.buddha]

On 12/24/2021 at 7:31 AM, UnoAgain said:

All so anti climactic...

 

On 12/24/2021 at 7:40 AM, Danny Franks said:

But Rand defeating him was incredibly anti-climactic.

 

On 12/24/2021 at 11:07 AM, Joana said:

So... this was it? Talk about an anticlimax.

 

20 hours ago, Enero said:

..this very anti-climatic finale

I am sensing a theme here..
I was not heavily invested, so I was not majorly disappointed -- but they had spent a lot of time in the previous episodes talking about the big, epic battle to come when the Dragon Reborn met the Dark One. 'No other person present will survive when the two forces collide.' 
But it basically felt as if Rand woke up from a nap and said "no thanks". 
It did not help that Rand had already experienced a fake-out dream sequence moments before in the same episode.

Going forward, if the series wants to be taken more seriously than a Young Adult story, I think it would help if the characters were given better dialogue.  When the younger five characters literally say they "love" one another (even the guys talking about the other guys), it comes off as very YA.  (to me, at least)
But for all I know, the show is aiming to be YA.  There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Edited December 25, 2021 by shrewd.buddha

[staphdude]

47 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

 

 

 

I am sensing a theme here..
I was not heavily invested, so I was not majorly disappointed -- but they had spent a lot of time in the previous episodes talking about the big, epic battle to come when the Dragon Reborn met the Dark One. 'No other person present will survive when the two forces collide.' 
But it basically felt as if Rand woke up from a nap and said "no thanks". 
It did not help that Rand had already experienced a fake-out dream sequence moments before in the same episode.

Going forward, if the series wants to be taken more seriously than a Young Adult story, I think it would help if the characters were given better dialogue.  When the younger five characters literally say they "love" one another (even the guys talking about the other guys), it comes off as very YA.  (to me, at least)
But for all I know, the show is aiming to be YA.  There's nothing wrong with that.

 

Given the complaints of anticlimax perhaps they should have dispensed with the who is the dragon and just gone with the established conclusion and then done a bit more character, plot and relationship development. As it is non book readers seem disappointed while readers are frustrated.

These books are no YA lit so why would a show runner go down that route. So sad.

[DoctorAtomic]

56 minutes ago, staphdude said:

Given the complaints of anticlimax perhaps they should have dispensed with the who is the dragon and just gone with the established conclusion and then done a bit more character, plot and relationship development. As it is non book readers seem disappointed while readers are frustrated.

I said the same. There's enough going on with Rand having no one to teach him and basically a death sentence that gaming it I don't think added anything. 

I wouldn't say I'm frustrated. The Eye wasn't what I was expecting, and I think there's more to it that we're going to learn. That's entirely speculation because that was all new. No spoilers. 

 

 

[Anduin]

5 hours ago, Zonk said:

He is the most powerfull channaler in the world. There's not much to stop him if he goes cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. The last dragon killed all his friends and family. So while I'm not usually one for splitting the party, and get annoyed by it every time, this time it might be warranted.

I meant, so they can talk him down. Keep him grounded.

[Zonk]

2 hours ago, Anduin said:

I meant, so they can talk him down. Keep him grounded.

I know what you meant, but at some point that's probably not going to work anymore. The last family of the dragon probably tried the same. He killed them all.

[Blue Plastic]

Eh, I didn't like this episode.  Everything felt very rushed to me.  Totally did not expect Moiraine to get stilled - me no likey.

[Anduin]

18 hours ago, Zonk said:

I have no idea why that ending with the tsunami was. It might be a good first attack in a lot of situations, but that beach had mountains directly behind it. That Tsunami is going to get 100 meters inland and then get stoped by those mountains. What's the point?

Maybe they just really hate that one kid on the beach. Actually, the tsunami probably extends further north and south than just that point. It might be more efficient to do the whole coast as a whole, rather than just where the settlements are.

10 hours ago, Zonk said:

I know what you meant, but at some point that's probably not going to work anymore. The last family of the dragon probably tried the same. He killed them all.

I obviously think my idea is a good one, but I'm prepared to wait and find out. Actually, I wonder how long the others will accept Rand's death, before realising that Moraine is a bullshit artist and go looking for him. Maybe one or two eps.

[DoctorAtomic]

As she pointed out, she can't lie. I don't think Ny is going to buy it for a second. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

As she pointed out, she can't lie. I don't think Ny is going to buy it for a second. 

This will turn into that scene from Shrek 3 where Charming interrogates Pinocchio.

 

[Zonk]

10 hours ago, Anduin said:

Maybe they just really hate that one kid on the beach. Actually, the tsunami probably extends further north and south than just that point. It might be more efficient to do the whole coast as a whole, rather than just where the settlements are.

Further than a mountain range? Yeah, no.

I guess they really hate that kid. Or somebody in the CGI-department didn't use their brain (I assume that wasn't a real location). One or the other.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Zonk

[Anduin]

20 minutes ago, Zonk said:

Further than a mountain range? Yeah, no.

I guess they really hate that kid. Or somebody in the CGI-department didn't use their brain (I assume that wasn't a real location). One or the other.

We don't know how long the cliffs are. I'm thinking the tsunami was generated for many k's. Maybe hundreds. Though actually, I live on the coast. Every year during winter storms there's stories of erosion. If you hit the cliff hard enough, maybe it'll collapse, turning it into a slope to walked up.

[Danny Franks]

If they're a seafaring people, it could be some kind of ritualistic thing - 'we arrive with the sea' or something. Or their first move when they make any kind of marine attack. Who knows?

[paigow]

58 minutes ago, Zonk said:

somebody in the CGI-department...

Thought they were rebooting Point Break

[Dobian]

The problem with this show started to become apparent after the second episode.  The first couple of episodes were great.  Lots of action, focus on plot.  But as the season progressed, I realized this whole season's story was linear plot-driven.  The pacing was too fast, and there was no time spent developing relationships with the characters.  And when they did have those kind of character-building moments, so much of it was as in this episode with things like "You are as bright as the sun, a warrior...a lioness..."  Who talks like that?  Just a bunch of cliche-ridden dialogue.  When Rand met the Dark One in the alternate reality and Rand turned on him because he said that Egwyne would never want this idyllic countryfied life, I have to take his word for it.  How do I know if Egwene would not want that life, or maybe she does?  Because of some conversation they had earlier in the season?  They have spent very little time together, and most of that time has been spent chasing around to figure out who the Dragon is.  I really don't know what Egwene wants, or any of them.  When Moiraine got stabbed through the mouth, I was like, well there goes Moiraine.  Of course she didn't really die, but if she had, I didn't feel invested enough to have cared too much.  I want to care about these characters, but so much of the emotion in the show is hollow.  It isn't based on anything I have seen in the story, but on the characters speaking dramatically to each other about whatever pious principle or lofty goal.  And a lot of the emotion is cheaply done, like Nynaeve dying in the final battle, and Egwene sobbing...but wait, she's not dead!  I'll take GoT or even The Witcher any day with all their layers of gray and the emphasis on politics, intrigue, and Machiavellian gamesmanship over the Light vs. Dark themes I have seen so far in WoT.

Another thing that bugs me, is that so many of these fantasy stories take place in medieval worlds.  But then you learn that these civilizations have been around for thousands of years.  So in the 3,000 year old flashback, the setting looks no different than the present.  Everything appears so similar at the White Tower or whatever that the scene might as well have taken place last year.  Why does nothing progress in these worlds?  3,000 years of no technological innovation, no industrial revolution?  3,000 years later and people are still living on feudal farms, raising pigs and going to the tavern at night?  If you want to make things medieval because everything has to be Tolkien, fine, but why are these worlds perpetually stuck in this stage of civilization?

I like the show enough to keep watching season 2, but I hope it does a much better job of growing the characters instead of relentlessly pursuing another Light vs Dark showdown.  I want to watch a good television series.  So far, WoT feels like a Hollywood movie to me.

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Dobian

[Anduin]

41 minutes ago, Dobian said:

 When Rand met the Dark One in the alternate reality and Rand turned on him because he said that Egwyne would never want this idyllic countryfied life, I have to take his word for it.  How do I know if Egwene would not want that life, or maybe she does?  Because of some conversation they had earlier in the season? 

Another thing that bugs me, is that so many of these fantasy stories take place in medieval worlds.  But then you learn that these civilizations have been around for thousands of years.  So in the 3,000 year old flashback, the setting looks no different than the present.  Everything appears so similar at the White Tower or whatever that the scene might as well have taken place last year.  Why does nothing progress in these worlds?  3,000 years of no technological innovation, no industrial revolution?  3,000 years later and people are still living on feudal farms, raising pigs and going to the tavern at night?  If you want to make things medieval because everything has to be Tolkien, fine, but why are these worlds perpetually stuck in this stage of civilization?

 

They talked in the first episode. She wanted to become a wisdom. But then Moraine turned up and showed her the world.

You mean the shining city with high towers and flying vehicles? It looked nothing like the present.

I know the problem you're getting at. The trope is medieval stasis. But that can be avoided by having your civilisation just passing through the medieval period at the time of the stories, or have some kind of external influence deliberately holding back the advance of technology. Or you shrug your shoulders and accept that's what the story is giving you.

But we're getting beyond the scope of the show right now. Maybe I should start a general fantasy literature thread.

Edit: I have done so!

Edited December 27, 2021 by Anduin

[Dobian]

50 minutes ago, Anduin said:

You mean the shining city with high towers and flying vehicles? It looked nothing like the present.

I meant in terms of how advanced things are today vs 3,000 years ago.  The medieval stasis you commented further on.

[AnimeMania]

On 12/25/2021 at 10:55 AM, Zonk said:

I have no idea why that ending with the tsunami was. It might be a good first attack in a lot of situations, but that beach had mountains directly behind it. That Tsunami is going to get 100 meters inland and then get stoped by those mountains. What's the point?

They probably wanted to sail as close to their destination as possible. Park their ships right next to the mountains and save themselves a 100 meters worth of steps. If all of their ships are on land, no one will try to steal them to escape their attack. Also leave nobody that can warn someone of their arrival.

I am surprised that in that entire large city there was only three women who could channel, the ability must be much rarer than I imagined.

Edited December 27, 2021 by AnimeMania

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

 When Rand met the Dark One in the alternate reality and Rand turned on him because he said that Egwyne would never want this idyllic countryfied life, I have to take his word for it.  How do I know if Egwene would not want that life, or maybe she does?  Because of some conversation they had earlier in the season?  They have spent very little time together, and most of that time has been spent chasing around to figure out who the Dragon is.  I really don't know what Egwene wants, or any of them.  When Moiraine got stabbed through the mouth, I was like, well there goes Moiraine.  Of course she didn't really die, but if she had, I didn't feel invested enough to have cared too much.  I want to care about these characters, but so much of the emotion in the show is hollow.  It isn't based on anything I have seen in the story, but on the characters speaking dramatically to each other about whatever pious principle or lofty goal.  And a lot of the emotion is cheaply done, like Nynaeve dying in the final battle, and Egwene sobbing...but wait, she's not dead!  I'll take GoT or even The Witcher any day with all their layers of gray and the emphasis on politics, intrigue, and Machiavellian gamesmanship over the Light vs. Dark themes I have seen so far in WoT.

Another thing that bugs me, is that so many of these fantasy stories take place in medieval worlds.  But then you learn that these civilizations have been around for thousands of years.  So in the 3,000 year old flashback, the setting looks no different than the present.  Everything appears so similar at the White Tower or whatever that the scene might as well have taken place last year.  Why does nothing progress in these worlds?  3,000 years of no technological innovation, no industrial revolution?  3,000 years later and people are still living on feudal farms, raising pigs and going to the tavern at night?  If you want to make things medieval because everything has to be Tolkien, fine, but why are these worlds perpetually stuck in this stage of civilization?

I think we are shown enough of Egwene to understand that she would not be happy as simply a wife and mother in the Two Rivers. Yes, a big part of that was the conversation about her wanting to be a Wisdom despite it scuttling the notion of her and Rand being husband and wife. But there was also the notion that she was the only one of the original four who was all-in on going to the White Tower and training to be an Aes Sedai, her momentary pride when she mistakenly thought that she was the strongest channeller the Aes Sedai had come across in an age, probably other things that I'm forgetting that signal that Egwene is ambitious. 

The setting in the flashback had numerous flying ships, so I would say that is very different from the present day of the show. It demonstrates that the breaking of the world caused by the last Dragon, presumably the guy we saw being overconfident about how he was going to handle evil, really really set society back for a loop. It appears back in his day, the Aes Sedai had both male and female members and there was some level of belief of balance, even with the yin-yang symbol, which suggests that this all takes place in some future version of Earth. 

[Dobian]

29 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The setting in the flashback had numerous flying ships, so I would say that is very different from the present day of the show. It demonstrates that the breaking of the world caused by the last Dragon, presumably the guy we saw being overconfident about how he was going to handle evil, really really set society back for a loop. It appears back in his day, the Aes Sedai had both male and female members and there was some level of belief of balance, even with the yin-yang symbol, which suggests that this all takes place in some future version of Earth. 

Could be.  I can't tell from one shot if that's technology or just magic powering those ships.  Good point on the yin-yang, that this could be Earth far in the future.