Fantasy literature

[Anduin]

Kings, queens, dragons, dwarves. Yes, there's so much more to the genre, but I couldn't resist borrowing from that video. So what do you like? Standalone novels, big series, short stories? Got any recs for lesser-known writers? But how do we define fantasy? If I could take a stance, steampunk if it has magic, urban fantasy, sure. But paranormal romance and horror, even supernatural horror, no thanks. However, I realise there are plenty of edge cases. Use your judgement.

Favourite and least favourite tropes? I don't mind the pseudo-medieval setting, but if there's no in-universe reason given for it staying that way, there had better be signs of technological or magicological advances.

Grimdark. I'm not a big fan. Again to draw from that video, we all know the world is full of chance and anarchy. Yes, it's true to life for characters to die randomly. But the genre's called fantasy. It's meant to be unrealistic. You can lighten up a little more, ease up on the grim slog. Put some more joy back into the world.

[Browncoat]

Terry Brooks has a new novel -- "Child of Light".  It mostly reads as a standalone, like the first Landover novel, but I suspect there will be more.  I love his world building.

[Danny Franks]

I don't care for grimdark at all, because the message of 'everyone is a bastard, no one is a hero' is really tiresome, and the opposite of what I think escapist fantasy should be.

I avoided reading Joe Abercrombie for a long time, because so many people said he was the king of grimdark, but when I did finally read one of his standalone books, he struck me as far more similar to David Gemmell - his stories are full of larger-than-life figures, with reputations to match - warriors who everyone on the battlefield knows and fears, wizards who can dominate an entire room with a few words, viciously evil bad guys - he just lets a lot more of them die than Gemmell did.

Though one of my favourite series is the Wheel of Time, I'm generally not a fan of series that focus heavily on magic and magic users. I just get tired of reading about incantations or runes or spells or whatever lore the author has come up with. I'm far more interested in the human conflicts and the warrior type characters.

One series I love because it eschews a lot of heavy magic is The Faithful and the Fallen, by John Gwynne - it's a very Anglo-Saxon inspired world, where humans are unknowingly fighting proxy wars for gods and demons, but the magic is very loosely defined.

And one series I love in spite of the magic system, which is detailed and the bits that focus on it bore me, is The Traitor Son Cycle, by Miles Cameron - set in a very lyrical, fantastical version of Medieval Europe, where men vie for power while also fighting off "The Wild" which is made up of various monsters from little, insect-like boglins to wyverns to talking bears.

[DearEvette]

On 12/26/2021 at 7:09 PM, Anduin said:

I don't mind the pseudo-medieval setting, but if there's no in-universe reason given for it staying that way, there had better be signs of technological or magicological advances.

I know this got touched upon in the WOT tv show threads but it is an interesting question about fantasy setting.

One reason for the persistence in Euro-Medieval setting is just that it is one of the most persistent genre tropes.  Since much of the birth of the genre found its lore in Folklore and mythology, many writers find the setting easy or comfortable. Or publishers are more apt to aquire properties that fit within a certain wheelhouse presuming something familiar will sell more than some unfamiliar.

But beyond that, world building has always been an important part of fantasy.  Unlike other genre fiction, our world it is set in is a known entity.  A fake world needs explanation.  And if you are going to create a world where magic is part of the world and is in use and you want to include some sort of tech advances, then you have to figure out how technology evolved in the presence of magic.  Why do you need airplanes if your world has magic portals that can zip you from one place to another? What sorts of technology is present that isn't just the same as our real world technology (because your world won;t have the people who invented those things).  Would magic users, who tend to be the rulers of such world even allow technology to advance, jealous that it would make them not so special?  And if too much time is spent on technology is it still fantasy or has it become some meld of science fiction?

Urban Fantasy bypasses that of course by simply setting magic in our present day environment.  But even Urban Fantasy still persists in using swords and cloaks etc.

One of my favorite Urban Fantasy Series, Kate Daniels series by Ilona Andrews, addresses the magic v. technology thing in their world.  Magic and Technology can't co-exist.  Magic used to be in the world but as we left the agrarian age and the industrial age began to take hold, magic died and faded away, until it came back with a vengeance and ate up technology.  Now the world exists in waves of tech and magic.  When the Tech is up cars, telephones, lights  and guns work, but magic won;t and when the magic wave is up, those things won't function and magic use is ascendant. So people have learned how to live with both and even technology evolved (cars are built to have magic engines that have to be chanted into use, alongside their regular combustion or electric engines).

Anne McCaffery's Pern series is always categorized under Science Fiction when, imo, some of the books feel more fantasy to me -- and some are more science fiction.  In that series yes their ancestors were space faring people who came to Pern on spaceships.  But the planet itself is inhospitable to technology so they have to create the dragons to protect the planet in a way none of their advanced technology could.  So they consciously devolved back into a pre-tech society because the planet demanded it.

As far as lighter-fare fantasy, I always go to Pratchett for that.  Discworld is the opposite of grimdark and straddles the line between feeling like a pre-industrial world but also feels modern.  

Another of my non-grim favorites is The Lies of Locke Lamorra by Scott Lynch -- it eschews the orn Medieval Englad setting, instead giving us a world that feel like Venice during the late Renaissance.  The Gentlemen Bastards are con men and thieves who run long cons and heists.  The ruling parties feel like the Mafia.  It is very clever and fun.

Also a different sort of fantasy, also very good, is Robin Hobb's Ship of Magic, set in a world reminiscent of colonial America and sailing upon the seas, generational family sailors, sentient ships and pirates are important parts of the world.

Edited December 28, 2021 by DearEvette

[MissLucas]

First none medieval inspired fantasy I came across was the Borribles trilogy and my mind was blown. To this day I can't understand why there was never an attempt to turn it into movies or a tv series and why it's not better known. Just did a bit of googling and learned about its rocky history. Back in the 80s when I got the books as a present I was trying to find something similar but couldn't find anything. Now I realize that it was an early urban fantasy tale.

Last month I picked up the Tide Child trilogy. Definitely not medieval - instead 17th century (more or less) Caribbean inspired. I loved the setting but in the end a smidge too much grimdark for my liking.

[Haleth]

I've pretty much burned out on fantasy; so much of what is published is bad, really bad.  Poorly thought out, thrown together series such as the dreck Nora Roberts churns out.  However there have also been some superb stand alone books in the past couple years.  I loved, loved Piranisi, Addie LaRue, and especially The Starless Sea.  These all are highly original, not relying on the same old tropes to generate sales.  Oh, and TJ Kline’s books are charming.

I'm currently in the middle of the second Shadow and Bone book.  I can't even remember the name.  But I haven't had time to go to the library, so I'm stuck with that.  It's not good.  (I did love Six of Crow though.  The characters were fun.)

On 12/27/2021 at 11:13 AM, DearEvette said:

Another of my non-grim favorites is The Lies of Locke Lamorra by Scott Lynch -- it eschews the orn Medieval Englad setting, instead giving us a world that feel like Venice during the late Renaissance.  The Gentlemen Bastards are con men and thieves who run long cons and heists.  The ruling parties feel like the Mafia.  It is very clever and fun.

Yes!  Like Six of Crows it's a fun romp with interesting protagonists.

I'm sure the folks on the WOT forum are sick of me comparing everything to Tolkien.  The show was entertaining but omigosh, every plot point was taken from somewhere else.  It did not make me want to rush out and dive into the first novel (which my library does not have, so I'd have to shell out for it), but come the middle of winter if I have nothing else to read I might try it.

I'd still like to go to New Mexico (or is it Arizona?) and kick George Martin's ass for not completing ASOIAF.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by Haleth

[JustHereForFood]

On 12/27/2021 at 1:09 AM, Anduin said:

Grimdark. I'm not a big fan. Again to draw from that video, we all know the world is full of chance and anarchy. Yes, it's true to life for characters to die randomly. But the genre's called fantasy. It's meant to be unrealistic. You can lighten up a little more, ease up on the grim slog. Put some more joy back into the world.

Grimdark was why I stopped reading The Dark Tower. I initially found it very interesting and wanted to know more about this tower that Roland was so obsessed about, but by book 3, I was forcing myself to keep reading. I read the first part of book 4 to resolve the cliffhanger from book 3, but then stopped. I just did not care at all whether those characters would survive, in fact when it looked like they might die, I thought that in that joyless world, it would be a better fate for them than having to wander on.

[DearEvette]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'd still like to go to New Mexico (or is it Arizona?) and kick George Martin's ass for not completing ASOIAF.  

That ship has sailed for me.  Even if he were to finish I wouldn't pick it up again.  The last book i enjoyed came out 20 years ago.  So yeah, I am over it.

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

Grimdark was why I stopped reading The Dark Tower.

For me it was the Malazan series by Steven Eriksen.  I should have stopped at book #2.  Man what a downer.  But then Book #3 -- while also a downer -- was fantastic.  But yeah, I should've stopped there.  But I read Book #4 -- that broke me. 

[Spartan Girl]

Charles de Lint is a very good fantasy writer. My favorite of his is Wolf Moon, a werewolf story that subverts the tropes beautifully. It’s old and probably out of print, but if you can find it, I highly recommend it.

[Haleth]

17 hours ago, DearEvette said:

That ship has sailed for me.  Even if he were to finish I wouldn't pick it up again.  The last book i enjoyed came out 20 years ago.  So yeah, I am over it.

The frustrating thing (not that there's only one) for me is that the excerpts he released from The Winds of Winter were so good, really intriguing.  Some new twists and turns and character pairings that I hadn't thought about.  Curse you, Martin!

[isalicat]

Try Gormenghast if you have never read it (the first book....I can't vouch for any follow ups).

[Anduin]

ASOIAF and Malazan are my two exceptions to grimdark. Despite all the terrible happenings, I'm still drawn into their worlds. And as much as I love Tolkien, Pratchett is my second favourite author. Number 3 would probably be Ben Aaronovitch, best known for Rivers of London. Rookie cop sees a ghost and discovers he can do magic. A whole lot of legal/magical adventures and hijinks ensure. Worth a look.

Which brings me to an uncomfortable realisation. I almost exclusively read white male authors. Sometimes I try stepping outside my comfort zone, but I rarely make any great discoveries. In the quest/adventure sphere, not politics or grimdark, what do you have? And maybe within the last 20 or so years? I don't really need any more 'old' authors.

[Haleth]

Anduin, have you read any of the ones I mentioned a bit above?  Susanna Clarke, Erin Morganstern, TJ Kline?  The first too are very atmospheric, Kline is light and cozy. All are wonderful writers. 

[Anduin]

1 minute ago, Haleth said:

Anduin, have you read any of the ones I mentioned a bit above?  Susanna Clarke, Erin Morganstern, TJ Kline?  The first too are very atmospheric, Kline is light and cozy. All are wonderful writers. 

I'll put them on the list to check out!

[Browncoat]

Is N. K. Jemisin considered fantasy?  I highly recommend her Broken Earth trilogy.

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Is N. K. Jemisin considered fantasy?  I highly recommend her Broken Earth trilogy.

Sure!

[Danny Franks]

21 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Is N. K. Jemisin considered fantasy?  I highly recommend her Broken Earth trilogy.

I couldn't get into that at all. The second person POV was just too much for me, but I want to give some of her other novels a chance, at some point.

But Robin Hobb is a fantastic female fantasy author. I read The Farseer Trilogy when I was in my mid-teens and it resonated so strongly with me, as the story of a young man coming of age and dealing with all the things that adolescence brings - first love, loss, feelings of inadequacy, confusion about your identity - but it was set in a really interesting fantasy world. The follow up trilogies - The Liveship Traders and The Tawny Man - were also great.

I really enjoyed The Priory of the Orange Tree by Samantha Shannon, which has the added bonus of a queer protagonist.

[Ailianna]

I recently discovered Jo Spurrier, who has one completed trilogy (Children of the Black Sun) which is really something original, with real stakes, complex characters, and no easy answers. The world building is fantastic too. 

There's Juliet Marillier too, whom I've loved for a long time, but her books are very Celtic inspired. Her Seven waters series is her first and most popular, but she's done a lot of things other than those that I highly recommend. Her Caller series is a trilogy and finished, and while Celtic isn't romantic Celtic.

One thing I've noticed us how many fantasy novels from more than ten years ago or so are written with white male main characters even with female writers. For some writers who avoid that, there is also Octavia Butler (some of her work is fantasy, some science fiction, but all awesome). Robin McKinley, another favorite, works in medieval world a little, does adult fairy tale stories that are quite different (Deerskin will definitely not be the old white guy model), but also has works set in colonial inspired worlds and the modern world.

I also second the NK Jemison recommendation, and could keep going.

[Anduin]

So I found myself reading some Conan the Barbarian today, and I had a thought. Has anyone written about what happens after the adventurers go through? Like, all the monsters are dead, traps sprung, treasure looted. Now all the scholars and proto-archeologists move in to see what this dungeon was all about.

Related, the local evil wizard or tyrannical priest is dead. The former cultists come to their senses and work out how to get on with their lives, but the seniors in the cult still have plans to get their power back.

I can't be the first to have this idea. What's out there in this vein?

[proserpina65]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:13 AM, DearEvette said:

Anne McCaffery's Pern series is always categorized under Science Fiction when, imo, some of the books feel more fantasy to me -- and some are more science fiction.  In that series yes their ancestors were space faring people who came to Pern on spaceships.  But the planet itself is inhospitable to technology so they have to create the dragons to protect the planet in a way none of their advanced technology could.  So they consciously devolved back into a pre-tech society because the planet demanded it.

Anne McCaffrey herself always said they should be science fiction because her dragons obeyed the laws of physics and were not magic.  But I see your point and would buy either argument, honestly.

[Anduin]

Brandon Sanderson has a confession. I'm not even angry, you know. Just amazed. That one Daniel Greene video is more true than ever.

[Spartan Girl]

I did like Katherine Arden’s Winternight trilogy. That is until the third book, The Winter of the Witch:

Spoiler

Fuck that Konstantine Nicholvitch. I waited the whole series for Vasya to finally kill him like she said she’d do, repeatedly. But oh no. Instead of letting her use her powers to burn him alive like he tried to do to her, Arden indulges in villain apologia and lets him sacrifice himself to beat the Bear. And Vasya feels SORRY for him?! WHY?! He didn’t do shit to deserve it; he never showed one shred of remorse for anything he did to her! Ugh! That unfortunately turned one to be the first of many disappointing conclusions for that year (GOT, Avengers Endgame, etc)

 

[Haleth]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:12 AM, Haleth said:

I'm currently in the middle of the second Shadow and Bone book.  I can't even remember the name.  But I haven't had time to go to the library, so I'm stuck with that.  It's not good.  (I did love Six of Crow though.  The characters were fun.)

After the awful Shadow and Bone book I picked up The Crooked Kingdom, second (and final?) of the Crows series.  Like its predecessor it's a fun romp.  It was good reading while travelling, very amusing.

[rickjonnes]

I prefer series because I like reading books that are connected, and not different plots and new characters. But lately, I've been reading misly novels. And now I read The Fifth Season, pretty good one

[LindaHarris]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:09 AM, Anduin said:

Kings, queens, dragons, dwarves. Yes, there's so much more to the genre, but I couldn't resist borrowing from that video. So what do you like? Standalone novels, big series, short stories? Got any recs for lesser-known writers? But how do we define fantasy? If I could take a stance, steampunk if it has magic, urban fantasy, sure. But paranormal romance and horror, even supernatural horror, no thanks. However, I realise there are plenty of edge cases. Use your judgement.

Favourite and least favourite tropes? I don't mind the pseudo-medieval setting, but if there's no in-universe reason given for it staying that way, there had better be signs of technological or magicological advances.

Grimdark. I'm not a big fan. Again to draw from that video, we all know the world is full of chance and anarchy. Yes, it's true to life for characters to die randomly. But the genre's called fantasy. It's meant to be unrealistic. You can lighten up a little more, ease up on the grim slog. Put some more joy back into the world.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           But for the last year I've been reading mostly classic books, because I'm still a student, and have a literature course. And because of that, I don't have time for reading fantasy. But it's not a big problem because I love reading. Pretty often, I also have to write on books, a review, or something else, and that's not as interesting as reading. There are situations when I use the help of https://edusson.com/write-my-literature-review because when I face problems, it's better to get the help of a literature review writer than spend time for nothing and miss the deadline. And now I'm actually working on my term paper, and for it, I'll have a chance to choose a book myself, and it will for sure be a fantastic book. But I still haven't decided which one.                              

Fantasy is one of my favorite genres. I've read different books and series, and for now, The Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne is my fav series ( Ruin I loved the most ).

Recently I got A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas, and today, I'm finally starting it

Edited April 22, 2023 by LindaHarris

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, LindaHarris said:

Fantasy is one of my favorite genres. I've read different books and series, and for now, The Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne is my fav series ( Ruin I loved the most ).

Recently I got A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J. Maas, and today, I'm finally starting it

I have a feeling I started Gwynne's Malice, though I didn't finish it. As for Thorns & Roses, the description really doesn't do it for me. I suppose if anything, I like good old-fashioned adventures. Though I realise that stuff like politics and romance can be a lot easier to write than fight scenes. :)

Not that I'm saying any subgenre of fantasy is wrong, it's just my preference.

[Browncoat]

I just finished "Legends & Lattes" by Travis Baldree.  It was an enjoyable tale about an orc named Viv, who has decided she no longer wants to be a warrior and wants to open a coffee shop.  

[blackwing]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:30 AM, Browncoat said:

I just finished "Legends & Lattes" by Travis Baldree.  It was an enjoyable tale about an orc named Viv, who has decided she no longer wants to be a warrior and wants to open a coffee shop.  

I read this one too, and I thought it was delightful.  Not the usual fantasy story.  The author is apparently at work on another book set in the same universe.  Magic and Mochas?  Elves and Espresso?

[alaynedabney30]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:51 AM, Ailianna said:

I recently discovered Jo Spurrier, who has one completed trilogy (Children of the Black Sun) which is really something original, with real stakes, complex characters, and no easy answers. The world building is fantastic too. 

There's Juliet Marillier too, whom I've loved for a long time, but her books are very Celtic inspired. Her Seven waters series is her first and most popular, but she's done a lot of things other than those that I highly recommend. Her Caller series is a trilogy and finished, and while Celtic isn't romantic Celtic.

One thing I've noticed us how many fantasy novels from more than ten years ago or so are written with white male main characters even with female writers. For some writers who avoid that, there is also Octavia Butler (some of her work is fantasy, some science fiction, but all awesome). Robin McKinley, another favorite, works in medieval world a little, does adult fairy tale stories that are quite different (Deerskin will definitely not be the old white guy model), but also has works set in colonial inspired worlds and the modern world.

I am a big fan of literature, and I used to read a lot of books and write reviews about them. However, even though I have a lot of experience regarding writing reviews, I still needed some help writing a literature review. I was really happy when I found this platform https://papersowl.com/literature-review-writing-service , it helped me a lot and I found new information for me even though I have a lot of experience!

I also second the NK Jemison recommendation, and could keep going.

I was wondering why nobody's talking about Jo Spurrier, this guy is a genius, love his art!

Edited June 5, 2023 by alaynedabney30

[Maelstrom]

Just finished Martha Wells' The Witch King, and while I liked it once I figured out what the heck was going on, I felt it wasn't as good as it could - or should - have been. And it pains me to say this since I've been a huge fan of her books since the mid 90s. Without getting into spoilery details, I feel that the split timeline structure worked against this and ultimately there is simultaneously too much story and not enough story. Like reading volumes 1 and 3 of a 4/5 part epic fantasy series. It most reminds me of her earlier Wheel of the Infinite but IMO Wheel is a better book.

[Ailianna]

On 5/30/2023 at 4:06 PM, alaynedabney30 said:

I was wondering why nobody's talking about Jo Spurrier, this guy is a genius, love his art!

I do love Jo Spurrier, but she is not a guy. 🙂. She is Australian though, and a lot of my favorite fantasy writers are, for some reason.

[Athena]

On 7/15/2023 at 10:18 PM, Ailianna said:

I do love Jo Spurrier, but she is not a guy. 🙂. She is Australian though, and a lot of my favorite fantasy writers are, for some reason.

Who are your other favourites? I've spent time in Australia and found they really have a good indie book store and publishing market. I know thrillers and mysteries are big, but interested to hear your recs for fantasy. TIA.

[Browncoat]

I just finished a book by Kell Woods, called "After the Forest."  It mostly focuses on Hansel and Gretel as young adults, but also interweaves the story of Snow White and Rose Red with maybe a tinge of some other fairy tales.

I enjoyed it quite a lot, and do recommend.  

[Spartan Girl]

On 12/10/2023 at 3:55 PM, Browncoat said:

I just finished a book by Kell Woods, called "After the Forest."  It mostly focuses on Hansel and Gretel as young adults, but also interweaves the story of Snow White and Rose Red with maybe a tinge of some other fairy tales.

I enjoyed it quite a lot, and do recommend.  

I read that one too and I liked it a lot!

There’s a new fantasy novel that is a dark reminding of The Nutcracker called The Kingdom of Sweets by Erika Johansen. This version gives Clara a twin sister who is basically the black swan of the family. And I’ll tell you, this story gets dark really fast. Even I wasn't prepared for it. I mean, it is quite good, but damn. A fun holiday fairy tale it is most certainly not.