TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[Annber03]

10 minutes ago, Bastet said:

There was Amy on Major Crimes, who didn't waver and told her boyfriend (after he brought it up yet again), "If the baby thing is that important to you, find somebody else.  Otherwise, stop talking about it." 

Ha. That's great, I like that. 

Quote

 

(And I don't accept an actor's pregnancy as an excuse for writing an illogical pregnancy; pregnancies can't always be timed around hiatus, and audiences are plenty savvy enough to just nod at the careful blocking and understand the character is not pregnant, so an actor being visibly pregnant during shooting does not force anyone to write a storyline they never would have thought of writing if not for the actor's pregnancy.)

 

I liked how they handled that on "The Nanny" when the actress who played CC was pregnant - they didn't write it into the show and instead went all out in poking fun at the whole thing of her having to sit or carry things to try and hide the pregnancy. I seem to recall her walking through a scene carrying a big white square thing that just said "Baby" on it or something like that :p. 

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Ha. That's great, I like that. 

I liked how they handled that on "The Nanny" when the actress who played CC was pregnant - they didn't write it into the show and instead went all out in poking fun at the whole thing of her having to sit or carry things to try and hide the pregnancy. I seem to recall her walking through a scene carrying a big white square thing that just said "Baby" on it or something like that :p. 

There was even a scene where CC mocked shows hiding actresses pregnancy specifically referencing using a huge purse and then CC exits carrying a huge purse .  On How I Met Your Mother, Lily eating in a hot dog contest was used to reference her pregnancy belly.   On Brooklyn 99 they created a storyline where Amy goes undercover as a pregnant inmate. I love when shows find funs ways to handle an actresses pregnancy.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

This makes me think of the number of times that a couple gets married without ever discussing whether they want children only to be shocked/horrified that one partner does not. (I'm looking at you, Grey's Anatomy!).  Have the writers never talked to adults?  Is there no concept of adult relationships?  We're not talking 16 year olds who haven't considered such a thing.  These are professionals in their 30s and sometimes 40s. 

And then there are all of the adults who get pregnant when they don't want to.  Birth control is not 100% effective.  However, the number of surprise pregnancies on TV is ridiculous. 

[JustHereForFood]

11 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

This makes me think of the number of times that a couple gets married without ever discussing whether they want children only to be shocked/horrified that one partner does not. (I'm looking at you, Grey's Anatomy!).  Have the writers never talked to adults?  Is there no concept of adult relationships?  We're not talking 16 year olds who haven't considered such a thing.  These are professionals in their 30s and sometimes 40s. 

And then there are all of the adults who get pregnant when they don't want to.  Birth control is not 100% effective.  However, the number of surprise pregnancies on TV is ridiculous. 

Red for movies, blue for real life.

[Bort]

My cousin’s journey into parenthood played out just like a tv show/soap opera. She and her husband tried and tried, had fertility tests that said they were both fine, but still nothing. They finally went the IVF route and ended up with twins. Then when the twins were a year old, oops! Ended up conceiving the regular way.

[Ambrosefolly]

Trope I like, and it is such a girl thing. The smart, introverted girl and criminal with a heart of gold falling for each other. I include Buffy/Angel in that as her being the slayer forced her to keep to herself and Angel had to keep to the fringes. I love Lexi and Fez from Euphoria. Heck, I have a bit of a soft spot for Lisa Simpson and Nelson Muntz. 

[magicdog]

One trope seems to be when TV writers don't know how to write for the story they're creating.  

I just happened to catch an episode of Quincy, ME (the spiritual ancestor of shows like Crossing Jordan and CSI) from Season 4, "The Eye of the Needle" (1979).  In it, a woman dies from an exploded stomach ulcer.  She had been going to a traditional doctor but decided to try treatment from a holistic doctor.  While Quincy tries to find out how the ulcer accelerated the woman's death, the holistic doctor is portrayed a bit oddly.  First other doctors are regularly ridiculing her and claiming she's using "mumbo jumbo" to cure patients.  In another scene she is shown in what appears to be a group therapy session telling patients about the power of thought ("people with sciatica claim the feeling is like fire, so we suggest people think of ice").  While holistic medicine has been ridiculed by allopathic doctors, holistic doctors don't typically try to get patients to use the mind to control pain or other problems.  Typically they will use herbal medicines and perhaps a combination of therapies other than prescription medications (like chiropractors or massage).  Of course this may vary with the practitioner and the disorder, but the episode just seemed like the writers never really thought out what a holistic doctor does. 

Of course this series is famous for the episode on punk rock so....

[Danielg342]

On 2/14/2022 at 10:20 AM, Ambrosefolly said:

Trope I like, and it is such a girl thing. The smart, introverted girl and criminal with a heart of gold falling for each other. I include Buffy/Angel in that as her being the slayer forced her to keep to herself and Angel had to keep to the fringes. I love Lexi and Fez from Euphoria. Heck, I have a bit of a soft spot for Lisa Simpson and Nelson Muntz. 

I'm just genuinely curious about why. I've never liked the trope, because I think- like the Disney Princess- it sets up unrealistic expectations and gets people into toxic relationships. My experience with "bad" people in general is that they usually stay that way, and "the power of love" doesn't change them. Some may eventually wise up and realize what they're throwing away but, because us humans are a stubborn lot, most don't change their ways, especially if someone tries to "make them".

On 2/17/2022 at 2:40 PM, magicdog said:

One trope seems to be when TV writers don't know how to write for the story they're creating.  

I just happened to catch an episode of Quincy, ME (the spiritual ancestor of shows like Crossing Jordan and CSI) from Season 4, "The Eye of the Needle" (1979).  In it, a woman dies from an exploded stomach ulcer.  She had been going to a traditional doctor but decided to try treatment from a holistic doctor.  While Quincy tries to find out how the ulcer accelerated the woman's death, the holistic doctor is portrayed a bit oddly.  First other doctors are regularly ridiculing her and claiming she's using "mumbo jumbo" to cure patients.  In another scene she is shown in what appears to be a group therapy session telling patients about the power of thought ("people with sciatica claim the feeling is like fire, so we suggest people think of ice").  While holistic medicine has been ridiculed by allopathic doctors, holistic doctors don't typically try to get patients to use the mind to control pain or other problems.  Typically they will use herbal medicines and perhaps a combination of therapies other than prescription medications (like chiropractors or massage).  Of course this may vary with the practitioner and the disorder, but the episode just seemed like the writers never really thought out what a holistic doctor does. 

Of course this series is famous for the episode on punk rock so....

Situational dramas tend to fall into this trap- particularly as they age- as the writers scramble to find new ideas and situations for the show to explore. You get some writers who actually do the research and appear to have a genuine interest in the subject and you can get some wonderful episodes. Then you get those writers who do little more than rely on stereotypes and the one book they picked up at the library (or, I suppose now, the Wikipedia article on the subject). I do get that Hollywood writing is stressful given the deadlines and the red tape a writer has to go through so I can understand when a writer has to cut a few corners but it shouldn't excuse a total lack of effort, especially in the research department.

[Ambrosefolly]

48 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm just genuinely curious about why. I've never liked the trope, because I think- like the Disney Princess- it sets up unrealistic expectations and gets people into toxic relationships. My experience with "bad" people in general is that they usually stay that way, and "the power of love" doesn't change them. Some may eventually wise up and realize what they're throwing away but, because us humans are a stubborn lot, most don't change their ways, especially if someone tries to "make them".

Diamond in the rough scenario, like Aladdin and Jasmine. Aladdin did the things he did because he had to. 

[Blergh]

23 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Diamond in the rough scenario, like Aladdin and Jasmine. Aladdin did the things he did because he had to. 

Ah, but remember villains almost always self-justify their actions by claiming to be good people who 'have to do' their actions!

[Ambrosefolly]

35 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Ah, but remember villains almost always self-justify their actions by claiming to be good people who 'have to do' their actions!

I like some of them. I liked Angel and Buffy, but was fine when they broke up in season 3, when Angel listened to Joyce and accepted that he was holding Buffy back, but rejected Spike and Buffy when they really started pushing the relationship. While I sort of feel for Nelson because he had a crappy homelife, and while I like Lisa for seeing "good things" in Nelson, which he admitted he liked, Lisa was right to break up with him when she found out that Nelson lied to her about pulling a prank. Depends on the writing. I used to love Sonny and Brenda on General Hospital, but he got tiresome when the show tried to have it both ways with him being powerful criminal that didn't deal drugs or prostitution. Then just go into legitimate business, especially since he didn't have a family to take care at the time like Fez does on Euphoria.  Comes down to writing and if they make strides to improve themselves. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Ambrosefolly

[Danielg342]

In a variation of the old saying, I am one who always believes that "one person's hero is another person's villain", and the best writers are the ones who bring that out. Good villains are people for whom their actions are not just understandable, but relatable, with the villains able to come across as sympathetic if they were only not on the wrong side of the fictional universe's code of morality. The same could be said about a good hero- if the tides were turned, their actions would be viewed in an abhorrent light. It's why I've never liked "the cackling villain" because reality is not like that- 99% of the time, it's really only one's perspective that paints certain people as heroes and villains. Change the perspective and you change the cast.

[Zella]

10 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

In a variation of the old saying, I am one who always believes that "one person's hero is another person's villain", and the best writers are the ones who bring that out. Good villains are people for whom their actions are not just understandable, but relatable, with the villains able to come across as sympathetic if they were only not on the wrong side of the fictional universe's code of morality. The same could be said about a good hero- if the tides were turned, their actions would be viewed in an abhorrent light. It's why I've never liked "the cackling villain" because reality is not like that- 99% of the time, it's really only one's perspective that paints certain people as heroes and villains. Change the perspective and you change the cast.

I personally don't need a sympathetic villain, but I do agree that a  villain doesn't go around thinking, "How wonderfully villainous I am!" They think they're the hero of their own story, and I think good writing reflects that. 

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, Zella said:

I personally don't need a sympathetic villain, but I do agree that a  villain doesn't go around thinking, "How wonderfully villainous I am!" They think they're the hero of their own story, and I think good writing reflects that. 

I'm not necessarily saying that a good villain has to come across as sympathetic. Merely, all a well-written villain has to do is be someone whose story you'd want to follow along if the story was about the villain instead of the hero. I know Nicholas Cage isn't always the best regarded actor, but Lord of War sums this up perfectly. That story is about the arm dealer, but the story would still work if it were about the Interpol agent chasing him instead.

[Zella]

20 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I'm not necessarily saying that a good villain has to come across as sympathetic. Merely, all a well-written villain has to do is be someone whose story you'd want to follow along if the story was about the villain instead of the hero. I know Nicholas Cage isn't always the best regarded actor, but Lord of War sums this up perfectly. That story is about the arm dealer, but the story would still work if it were about the Interpol agent chasing him instead.

I'm one of the weirdos who usually roots for the bad guy anyway--I blame my childhood love for Skeletor--so them being the villain isn't at all a deterrent for me wanting to follow their story instead of the hero's. But I can definitely understand your point. 

[Mabinogia]

18 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'm one of the weirdos who usually roots for the bad guy anyway--I blame my childhood love for Skeletor--so them being the villain isn't at all a deterrent for me wanting to follow their story instead of the hero's.

I'm right there with you but instead of Skeletor it was Darth Vader for me. Maleficent as well. And of course my preference for Alexis Carrington to Crystal Carrington and all the other "evil divas" to the "good girls". I am concerned about what it says about me, but I've always identified more with the villain than the hero, though I prefer villain's without a sob story. 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Mabinogia said:

I've always identified more with the villain than the hero, though I prefer villain's without a sob story. 

Are we long-lost twins? I'm the exact same way. As soon as the villain gets whiny and they want me to feel sorry for him/her, I rapidly lose interest. LOL

[Danielg342]

2 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm right there with you but instead of Skeletor it was Darth Vader for me. Maleficent as well. And of course my preference for Alexis Carrington to Crystal Carrington and all the other "evil divas" to the "good girls". I am concerned about what it says about me, but I've always identified more with the villain than the hero, though I prefer villain's without a sob story. 

Depends on the sob story. If it's just, "the villain is acting out because he lost his dear mother!" well, that's just lazy storytelling and not interesting at all. If it's "the villain is targeting the hero because he blames the hero for his mother's death" we might actually get somewhere.

[Blergh]

4 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Depends on the sob story. If it's just, "the villain is acting out because he lost his dear mother!" well, that's just lazy storytelling and not interesting at all. If it's "the villain is targeting the hero because he blames the hero for his mother's death" we might actually get somewhere.

Yeah, give me Madame DeFarge over Miss Jolie's Malificent any day!  At least the former's fall from grace was believable and one could be sympathetic towards it even when loathing her latter villainous actions whereas the latter's wasn't and she just seemed to want to concoct excuses out of thin air for it and expected automatic audience pity! 

[Mabinogia]

28 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Yeah, give me Madame DeFarge over Miss Jolie's Malificent any day! 

I didn't need the Maleficent backstory because I was always fine with what it was in Sleeping Beauty. She was not invited to the party and lashed out. Of course lashing out about minor slights is probably why no one wanted her there in the first place. lol But seriously, it was enough that she wasn't invited and took it to an extreme. Nothing else was needed. The attempt to "flesh her out" ruined her. Oddly, I did like Emma Stone's Cruella. Not so much because they gave her a backstory as that they basically had her slightly unhinged from the get go. Also, she was stylish as hell!

[Fool to cry]

Before the internet there was the trope in horror and suspense movies and TV shows where a character is at the library looking through a microfilm reader looking through old newspaper articles and uncovers a dark secret as it comes on screen.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Fool to cry

[Irlandesa]

30 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

Before the internet there was the trope in horror and suspense movies and TV shows where a character is at the library looking through a microfilm reader looking through old newspaper articles and uncovers a dark secret as it comes on screen.

 

 

Ha.  They could still use this trope (albeit with some comedy showing them trying to figure out those machines.)  Not everything is digitized online.

[DoctorAtomic]

I used to actually have to do that for homework. I'll tell you what, looking at old newspapers is something else. Just the local stories alone. People don't really have local news much anymore, so you miss out. 

[Irlandesa]

I don't know if what I'm about to say is a trope but it's certainly an annoying trend:  TV Shows that get overly cute with future episode descriptions or future episode promos. 

I'm thinking of something like Barry, which is a show I love, that only has a 2 second preview of the next episode.  It's like those animated promos on Twitter that go around except on TV.  If you don't want to tease the next episode, fine, just don't show us anything.

But even more annoying to me are shows like Atlanta or Better Things whose episode descriptions say nothing about the show. 

Here's the description for last week's episode.

Black and White episode? Yawn. Emmy Bait. Why do they hate black women so much? 

I mean, I guess the episode was in black and white so that gave away more than these descriptions usually do.  But otherwise, it's about nothing related to the show other than referencing some criticism Glover has received.

Just leave the log line on every episode if he doesn't want to give an ep description.

Edited May 16, 2022 by Irlandesa

[janie jones]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

But even more annoying to me are shows like Atlanta or Better Things whose episode descriptions say nothing about the show. 

I've noticed that Netflix has been doing that with descriptions of movies. "Sally Jones and Bob Smith star in this film from Oscar-winning director Mary Adams." Okay, but what is it about?

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Atlanta's episode descriptions are really annoying. I agree, @Irlandesa, give me a description or give me nothing.  

When we get descriptions that focus on who is in a show and don't say what the show is about, I start to think the show is terrible or the topic will not draw people in.  Last Week Tonight does not provide descriptions until after the show airs.  However, they have specifically stated that they don't let people know the main topic because often the topics would not draw people in; once people start watching they are unlikely to turn the show off based on the topic given the way things are presented. 

[Cinnabon]

5 hours ago, janie jones said:

I've noticed that Netflix has been doing that with descriptions of movies. "Sally Jones and Bob Smith star in this film from Oscar-winning director Mary Adams." Okay, but what is it about?

This also drives me crazy. I shouldn’t have to spend time googling movies I see on Netflix to figure out what the hell they’re about before deciding whether I want to watch them. Why can’t they fix this?

[DoctorAtomic]

I bet it's because they want you to watch the trailer. They're probably counting clicks. 

[Cinnabon]

56 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I bet it's because they want you to watch the trailer. They're probably counting clicks. 

I would still watch the trailer if I knew a bit more about what the movie was about. The way it’s done now I won’t watch either the movie or the trailer most of the time. 🤷‍♀️

[janie jones]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I bet it's because they want you to watch the trailer. They're probably counting clicks. 

Oh I'm absolutely sure that's why. Or to start watching it/let it run until it starts playing for long enough for them to count it as a view when they brag about that stuff.

But they aren't providing enough information for me to even want to watch a trailer! It's basically saying "This movie exists," and that doesn't exactly pique my interest.

[DoctorAtomic]

It's like the Mad Men previews 

"Come on in. Shut the door. Sit down. 

Tune in next week on Mad Men. 

[scarynikki12]

8 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's like the Mad Men previews 

"Come on in. Shut the door. Sit down. 

Tune in next week on Mad Men. 

And we would spend the whole week coming up with wild theories only for the episode to reveal that the snippets chosen for the trailers had no consequence. Good times.

[Cinnabon]

26 minutes ago, janie jones said:

Oh I'm absolutely sure that's why. Or to start watching it/let it run until it starts playing for long enough for them to count it as a view when they brag about that stuff.

But they aren't providing enough information for me to even want to watch a trailer! It's basically saying "This movie exists," and that doesn't exactly pique my interest.

Exactly! I just move on to something else instead of taking time to watch the trailers.

12 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's like the Mad Men previews 

"Come on in. Shut the door. Sit down. 

Tune in next week on Mad Men. 

For sure! But I was already hooked on Mad Men so I learned not to even watch the previews, lol.

[janie jones]

You know, it's like how books just have praise on the backs of them instead of a description of the book. Okay, good, Stephen King and Tina Fey like it, but what the fuck is it about?

[Egg McMuffin]

I hate the trope where if a character leaves a job, they are replaced by their sibling with a rhyming or similar name (Judy McCoy on Love Boat, Carlene on Designing Women, Coach Mellor on The Goldbergs). I guarantee that if I ever leave my job, my brother Sausage will not be available to take my place.

[Mabinogia]

20 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I guarantee that if I ever leave my job, my brother Sausage will not be available to take my place.

But what about your identical cousin McGriddle?

I'm an only child so I guess I can't ever leave my job. (breaks into uncontrollably sobbing).

[Blergh]

23 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I hate the trope where if a character leaves a job, they are replaced by their sibling with a rhyming or similar name (Judy McCoy on Love Boat, Carlene on Designing Women, Coach Mellor on The Goldbergs). I guarantee that if I ever leave my job, my brother Sausage will not be available to take my place.

I wonder if that could be related to the whole rhyming profession deal that got done on Captain Kangaroo? I mean, as regular characters, they had Hugh 'Lumpy' Brannum play someone called 'Mr. Bainter, the Painter', with Cosmo 'Gus' Allegretti playing his assistant called 'Dennis, the Apprentice'. Of course, no one topped guest star Jo Anne Worley playing an equestrian professional called (ready for it?). .. 'Winnie Jo, Director of the Horse Show'! 

[andromeda331]

On 5/25/2022 at 7:55 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I hate the trope where if a character leaves a job, they are replaced by their sibling with a rhyming or similar name (Judy McCoy on Love Boat, Carlene on Designing Women, Coach Mellor on The Goldbergs). I guarantee that if I ever leave my job, my brother Sausage will not be available to take my place.

Or on soaps when the actor or actress leaves so they kill off the character only for them to come back as the never before ever mentioned twin. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

On 5/25/2022 at 9:55 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I hate the trope where if a character leaves a job, they are replaced by their sibling with a rhyming or similar name (Judy McCoy on Love Boat, Carlene on Designing Women, Coach Mellor on The Goldbergs). I guarantee that if I ever leave my job, my brother Sausage will not be available to take my place.

Or some cousin who appears out of fat air (paging Cindy Snow...).

[Bort]

16 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Or some cousin who appears out of fat air (paging Cindy Snow...).

Three’s Company actually wrote that to make sense. Chrissy knew Jack and Janet would struggle to make rent without a third person and her cousin needed a place to stay while going to vet school so… enter Cindy. 

[Egg McMuffin]

TC’s Cousin Cindy was at least better than Designing Women’s equivalent: Cousin Allison, who showed up to take place of Suzanne. Allison didn’t seem remotely Southern, and I found it hard to believe that Julia didn’t already know what a PITA she was and didn’t find a way to block her from buying into the business.

[Danielg342]

On 5/26/2022 at 6:28 PM, Mabinogia said:

I'm an only child so I guess I can't ever leave my job. (breaks into uncontrollably sobbing).

*hugs* There, there...I sympathize with your plight.

I guess I'm lucky. I have a twin brother, so any employer that hires me also has a suspiciously similar substitute waiting in the wings if I ever leave.

Of course, we studied different subjects in school, he has different ambitions and interests than I do and our work styles are different (he's more of a desk jockey, I'm more willing to get my hands dirty). So I don't know how much of a "straight swap" it would be.

[Blergh]

17 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Three’s Company actually wrote that to make sense. Chrissy knew Jack and Janet would struggle to make rent without a third person and her cousin needed a place to stay while going to vet school so… enter Cindy. 

Not entirely- as Cindy never talked about the cousin whose apartment she was living in. Moreover  Chrissy never asked how her cousin Cindy was doing when she had those awkward phone calls with Jack and Janet while supposedly away caring for her own mother.

[Bort]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

Not entirely- as Cindy never talked about the cousin whose apartment she was living in. Moreover  Chrissy never asked how her cousin Cindy was doing when she had those awkward phone calls with Jack and Janet while supposedly away caring for her own mother.

They stopped doing the awkward phone call scenes once Cindy came along.

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

*hugs* There, there...I sympathize with your plight.

I guess I'm lucky. I have a twin brother, so any employer that hires me also has a suspiciously similar substitute waiting in the wings if I ever leave.

Of course, we studied different subjects in school, he has different ambitions and interests than I do and our work styles are different (he's more of a desk jockey, I'm more willing to get my hands dirty). So I don't know how much of a "straight swap" it would be.

That's where the comedy comes in, though.  Your brother pretends to be you and he is unable to fix the fill-in-the-blank.  

[DoctorAtomic]

The only reason to be twins is to fool your date. 

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The only reason to be twins is to fool your date.

Nah, we're the type who will share...if you know what I mean. ;)

I've always joked that the two of us will wind up with two women of our own and we'll have this giant foursome that makes this gigantic family. Which would be quite the, um, show...

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That's where the comedy comes in, though.  Your brother pretends to be you and he is unable to fix the fill-in-the-blank.  

You know...it all makes sense now. Given how nonsensical my life is at the moment, I should have known I was living in a sitcom. :P

[Anduin]

Consider this a crossover with the Gender on TV thread. Fun little YT video. How Women Are Written In SF movies. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least some of these, possibly all of these, before. Samantha Carter on Stargate for example.

[Popples]

6 hours ago, Anduin said:

Consider this a crossover with the Gender on TV thread. Fun little YT video. How Women Are Written In SF movies. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least some of these, possibly all of these, before. Samantha Carter on Stargate for example.

The comment that said "This is my father's jacket! He was a woman's size 6." is killing me.😆

[JustHereForFood]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:23 AM, Anduin said:

Consider this a crossover with the Gender on TV thread. Fun little YT video. How Women Are Written In SF movies. I'm pretty sure I've seen at least some of these, possibly all of these, before. Samantha Carter on Stargate for example.

"I can't be good at my job and also nice at the same time." - that also applies to criminal shows.