TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[merylinkid]

 

It was kind of a reverse of the Chuck Cunningham situation, since Sondra must have emerged from the same wormhole that Chuck disappeared into.

 

Awesome wormhole, put in a middle class white jock, get out an upper class black well educated (but kinda lacking in common sense so there was some continuity there) woman.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

And a neck so skinny that she doesn't even look like she can swallow, at least according to her equally common sense lacking husband Elvin. :-P

[Joe]

Seasons that end on cliffhangers, especially if the show doesn't come back. It's like the writers don't trust themselves to produce good enough material for us to come back, they have to give us this extra special reason and annoy the life out of us for a period of months.

[ganesh]

I've been seeing less of this, but it's stupid. It's actually true. They don't have the chops to write good material. That's why we see all these tropes. It's the same thing with the time jump; it's basically a rest button.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I've been seeing less of this, but it's stupid. It's actually true. They don't have the chops to write good material. That's why we see all these tropes. It's the same thing with the time jump; it's basically a rest button.

But isn't the rest button kind of necessary sometimes? I don't advocate lazy writing, but sometimes time jumps are better IMO than showing every single thing. Where's the line between skipping ahead six months and narrating every fart and burp?

[Aquarius]

But isn't the rest button kind of necessary sometimes? I don't advocate lazy writing, but sometimes time jumps are better IMO than showing every single thing. Where's the line between skipping ahead six months and narrating every fart and burp?

As I understood the "time jump" trope, it was not the normal time lapse employed in storytelling. Continuity is respected in the time lapse. Like you said, it's used not to show every farting thing that happens, but the story is advanced. It's not used as a mechanism to just change story direction, like a random time jump.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

As I understood the "time jump" trope, it was not the normal time lapse employed in storytelling. Continuity is respected in the time lapse. Like you said, it's used not to show every farting thing that happens, but the story is advanced. It's not used as a mechanism to just change story direction, like a random time jump.

Thanks, Aquarius, I didn't know if I was misunderstanding the usage. I think things can happen during "down time" on a show, as it were, as long as it follows an established storyline.

[DittyDotDot]

I generally hate time jumps because writers like to write their characters into a corner and have no clue how to get them out, so they time jump six months ahead. For me, the most interesting story is how they get themselves out of their predicaments, so I hate it when they skip it.

 

Plus, they generally lead to flashbacks.  ::shiver::  And not flashbacks to how they actual got out of their predicaments, but flashbacks to random crap they did after they got out of their predicaments.

[ganesh]

I generally hate time jumps because writers like to write their characters into a corner and have no clue how to get them out, so they time jump six months ahead.

 

That's what I meant. cf. Falling Skies for a recent one. When the time jump is used as a black box. Obviously you can't have one minute of show time = one minute of real time. 

 

Boardwalk Empire jumped ahead *7* years. But, it's the final season and it's clear they want to end with the repeal of Prohibition, so story wise they need to start the season a little back from that. They also seemed to have actually worked out what's been going on in the interim

 

Royal Pains is a fairly shitty show, but it's set in summer time. So when the show returns, it can be the start of the next summer. Because the show itself said, "people move out of the Hamptons off season, so nothing happens during that time." So when the show jumps several months at a time, it's expected and not a big deal because you don't suddenly come back from the hiatus and someone died, had a baby, or got married. 

[ChromaKelly]

The sibling no one has ever mentioned that suddenly comes to town. I understand the need to make new storylines, but at least maybe mention siblings in the previous episodes so you can write them in if needed. It feels more artificial when it's like, sibling on the doorstep.

Since the passage of time was mentioned, it can feel even more artificial to have no time jump in between seasons, especially when there's a year in between them. Like on Breaking Bad, I would have to keep reminding myself it's only been a few months in BB time, when IRL years had passed.

[ganesh]

I think Mad Men does the time jumps fairly well too. 

[lucindabelle]

I agree about the time jumps and also that Boardwalk empire and Mad Men have used them thoughtfully and sensibly. Perhaps it's because those shows are very much about the time they are in, as much as they are about the people, so the jumps seem to fit with the need for chronology rather than just giving a writer an easy out.

I bailed on desperate housewives and nip tuck because of time jumps.

[paulvdb]

Speaking of time lines, I hate it when episodes start with the end of the story and then the next scene is x hours/days earlier. Then the rest of the episode leads up to the situation in the opening scene. If you have a good story for your episode you can tell it in chronological order.

[Joe]

I don't mind that one, but Alias ran it into the ground. It's a sometimes trope.

[CoderLady]

It was the standard structure for every single darn Flashpoint episode though they used it well.

 

On the plus side, I now know what "in media res" means.

[Wax Lion]

Also related? The wife of the cop/doctor/FBI agent who constantly complains about her spouses long hours at work. Like he's just hanging around the office, and not saving lives. And this is a huge shock to her, even though she knew she married a cop/doctor/FBI agent.

 

For the cop/government agent, did the wife never worry until that episode? The cop/agent's spouse apparently also isolates herself, so going to a support group or talking with other spouses doesn't seem to have occurred to her.

 

Coronation Street actually handled the trope well a few months ago. A woman engaged to a firefighter boyfriend was fine with his work (mostly, she previously got paranoid when his station got its first female firefighter) until there was a fire down the street where one of his colleagues died. Between actually witnessing the fire, seeing her neighbors almost die and seeing someone die in her fiance's line of work, the danger of his job became harder to accept.

 

Another one I absolutely loathe is the "couples can't stay together and be happy because that's boring so let's break them up and keep them apart as long as possible because it makes for great angst." And then after throwing every horrible and bullshit hurdle possible at the couple until they both become downright unlikeable and no sane and reasonable person would want them anywhere near each other again, throw them back together in some lame 13th hour reunion as the show is ending. And audiences are expected to cheer and aww and believe they'll live happily ever after even though they'd just spent years watching all the ways they were awful for and to each other.

 

 

I hate this trope so much, but at least Modern Family gives those writers plenty of ways to see how a married couple can do other things than find reasons to break up and reconcile, even if it involves them finding smaller things to fight about.

 

But sometimes I think the "married couples are boring" trope is a matter of established Hollywood writers having too much money so their experiences of marital debates involve how stressing about getting their child into the exclusive $25K tuition private kindergarten. Or most of the parenthood storylines from Up All Night.

[Haleth]

Speaking of time lines, I hate it when episodes start with the end of the story and then the next scene is x hours/days earlier. Then the rest of the episode leads up to the situation in the opening scene. If you have a good story for your episode you can tell it in chronological order.

 

Ugh.  The Bridge did that on an even bigger scale this year.  The very first scene of the season was a flash forward to which the storyline just caught up in episode 8.  It left half the audience confused.

[ganesh]

I didn't even remember that. I had to go check to see. Shows you how effective that is. TPTBs are their own worst enemies for shows. Just tell the story and let it stand on its own.

[ChromaKelly]

 

But sometimes I think the "married couples are boring" trope is a matter of established Hollywood writers having too much money so their experiences of marital debates involve how stressing about getting their child into the exclusive $25K tuition private kindergarten. Or most of the parenthood storylines from Up All Night.

Does the exclusive preschool/kindergarten thing even exist outside of the circles of the rich/very upper middle class? All I had to do to get my kids into preschool was fill out a form and a $50 deposit. When that storyline comes up on a sitcom I find it so unrelatable and tiresome. No one really cares about which preschool your child attended.

[Mulva]

My least favorite trope is when to show that one of the legs in a love triangle is repulsive and generally unworthy, they make them wear glasses and have seasonal allergies. The 'Twu Wuv' naturally has 20/20 vision and no sensitivity to ragweed. Gee, I didn't realize that having the equivalent of a mild cold for a few weeks in the fall was actually a character flaw.

A related annoying trope: Asthma is a disease that strikes the cool and uncool alike. It is NOT a character trait indicating that someone is a weakling and/or a nerd.

[Aquarius]

Or anyone with a fatal disease is a noble, heartwarming person.  I don't have a lot of experience with people with fatal diseases, but I have known some who were just ordinary, miserable (with good reason of course) people.

[Bastet]

The only tv person I can think of who didn't care that she was starting menopause was Claire Huxtable, but in their case, they always had the "We had 5 kids because we didn't want 6 and those we do have we want out of the house as soon as possible."  attitude  :)

 

Although she didn't do it then, Clair was still part of the "no woman is ever through wanting kids" stereotype.  There was an earlier episode in which they took care of someone's baby, and suddenly Clair - mother of five - is telling Cliff, "I want another one" (before coming to her senses by the end of the episode).

[AimingforYoko]

Is it me or did the "in media res" trope explode post-Pulp Fiction?

[ChromaKelly]

A related annoying trope: Asthma is a disease that strikes the cool and uncool alike. It is NOT a character trait indicating that someone is a weakling and/or a nerd.

Also mothers of children with food allergies are control freak busybodies. Children with food allergies are also nerds and chronically uncool.

[ToxicUnicorn]

Speaking of time lines, I hate it when episodes start with the end of the story and then the next scene is x hours/days earlier. Then the rest of the episode leads up to the situation in the opening scene. If you have a good story for your episode you can tell it in chronological order.

 

This doesn't bother me yet, although I wasn't a watcher of Alias, so I don't feel like I've been overexposed to it.  In fact, I thought Damages used this to brilliant effect, when entire seasons would lead up to the opening scene in the 1st episode.  Maybe it works better in a dark drama-mystery. 

[Shannon L.]

 

Although she didn't do it then, Clair was still part of the "no woman is ever through wanting kids" stereotype.  There was an earlier episode in which they took care of someone's baby, and suddenly Clair - mother of five - is telling Cliff, "I want another one" (before coming to her senses by the end of the episode).

Ah.  I don't remember that episode. Thanks for the correction.

[VillaVillekulla]

A related annoying trope: Asthma is a disease that strikes the cool and uncool alike. It is NOT a character trait indicating that someone is a weakling and/or a nerd.

Thank you! One example of this that sticks with me is how Steve Rogers aka Captain America had asthma, pre-serum infusion, and it was used as yet another thing that showed he was a weak little shrimp. He had an impressive rundown of conditions (asthma, anemia, scoliosis, and so on and so forth) that of course were all magically fixed when he was experimented on and became a supersoldier. Sigh.

[paulvdb]

This doesn't bother me yet, although I wasn't a watcher of Alias, so I don't feel like I've been overexposed to it.  In fact, I thought Damages used this to brilliant effect, when entire seasons would lead up to the opening scene in the 1st episode.  Maybe it works better in a dark drama-mystery.

I didn't watch Alias or Damages, but it was one of the things I didn't like about Revenge. I liked most of the first season of that show, but I am someone who really hates being spoiled for a show, and in media res is basically the show spoiling me as part of the actual episode, instead of the more avoidable spoilers in interviews and promos. By the way, thanks to the person who mentioned the term in media res. I knew it had a name, but I couldn't remember what it was.

It is less annoying in comedies, where I'm less annoyed by spoilers in general. I liked Grounded for Life, which used in media res for (almost?) all episodes in the early seasons. I don't know exactly when they stopped using it. It could be when the show went from Fox to the WB, but maybe it was earlier than that.

[ToxicUnicorn]

I didn't watch Alias or Damages, but it was one of the things I didn't like about Revenge. I liked most of the first season of that show, but I am someone who really hates being spoiled for a show, and in media res is basically the show spoiling me as part of the actual episode, instead of the more avoidable spoilers in interviews and promos.

 

I can sympathize with this position, paulvdb.  I am a spoilerphobe as well.  Still, I highly recommend the first couple seasons of Damages.  The story is told, paced, and edited well: very economically with some surprises I did not see coming.  I watched the first season of Revenge as well (mostly for the clothes), and there is no comparison, to me.

[lucindabelle]

I never thought about it but you are so right the exclusive preschool isn't even funny any more it's so ckiched, and I t think it has less to do with income than location, in cities like la or NYC it may be true but even in very wealthy suburbs it is not. Similarly some public schools in wealthy suburbs are better than the private ones, it's just tv shorthand for helicopter parents.

Omg true for I allergies. TV must think they're all psychosomatic. As someone with a peanut allergy waaaaaaay before it was common I know that's not true, I remember tasting peanut oil before I even knew it existed, asking why does this fish taste like peanut and hurt? At least the Epipen commercials show normal people.

Going backwards worked beautifully for episodes. So maybe yes, in comedy.

I'm tired of the detective with bad divorce, and the female detective who's hot. I think real crime fighters and medical examiners probably don't have time for $300 haircuts and highlighting and manicures. And I very much doubt they stride around in high heeled boots.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I'm tired of the detective with bad divorce, and the female detective who's hot. I think real crime fighters and medical examiners probably don't have time for $300 haircuts and highlighting and manicures. And I very much doubt they stride around in high heeled boots.

 

 

Me, too. That's why I loved Olivia from Fringe, because she wore flat, sensible shoes. Come to think of it, I've noticed that, in fiction, "sensible shoes" translates into "mousy, uptight woman we're either supposed to hate, or will inevitably get a makeover". "Sensible shoes" never translates into "normal woman who just likes being comfortable and doesn't want to wear something that will give her blisters or bunions". 

And people make fun of how "butch" and "ugly" the titular characters of Cagney and Lacey were, but I loved that they looked strong, real women who could conceivably chase down and tackle a bad guy, throw a punch, or wrest away from a mugger. They are friggin' cops, after all!

[lucindabelle]

Word. It's not as if there aren't plenty of cute sneakers and walking shoes and loafers. I don't mind a woman wearing lipstick but real women without personal staffs in tough jobs don't dress like fashion models. It's just stupid. I will be surprised if even one me wears heels with her lab coat. Men don't so honey don't realize how freaking stupid this is.

[ChromaKelly]

I have never seen a doctor wearing high heels while on the job IRL.

[bmoore4026]

Anytime a woman is raped just to cause angst and trauma for a male protagonist like in season three of Downton Abbey.  Anna had something horrible happen to her yet she's more worried about how Bates will react.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Anytime a woman is raped just to cause angst and trauma for a male protagonist like in season three of Downton Abbey.  Anna had something horrible happen to her yet she's more worried about how Bates will react.

The "Rape as Drama" trope needs to die. NOW.

[ToxicUnicorn]

It's distressing that we can even talk about a "rape as drama trope".  "Wife's breast cancer as a route to a husband's tender side" is another overdone one.

 

I remember way back when the movie The Accused came out.  Jodie Foster gave a performance unlike I (or anyone, to hear the publicity) had ever seen.  It had tremendous impact and I thought it was fantastic that someone was talking about rape at all.  I often feel that way when a taboo subject is treated respectfully for the first time.  It's why I supported the movies Philadelphia (even though I didn't think it was that great) and Silver Linings Playbook (see previous parenthetical comment) and Prince of Tides and Ordinary People.  To bring it back to tv, it's even why I tuned in to watch Rosie O'Donnell's riding the bus drama.

 

The first time I saw breast cancer as a storyline on daytime tv, I was very touched by it.  Then, it got to the point where it felt like, if some actress wanted an emmy nomination, the writers would give her breast cancer.  I can't put my finger on why, but it certainly lost its way as a window into touching drama.  I think it's when it seems obvious that all the problems and reactions seem so cookie cutter, like there are no other ways to face or process or react to them.

[Brandi Maxxxx]

A related annoying trope: Asthma is a disease that strikes the cool and uncool alike. It is NOT a character trait indicating that someone is a weakling and/or a nerd.

 

What we need is a show about a brilliant detective/doctor/lawyer/shoe salesman who saves the day while coping with asthma. You've seen protagonists with drug addictions or obsessive-compulsive disorder, now comes the one who sometimes has trouble breathing and might need to take a break for a couple of minutes or so.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Brandi Maxxxx

[lucindabelle]

Come to thnk about it has there been even one disabled detective since Ironsides? A woman, ever? Even someone with diabetes? Or rheumatoid arthritis?

[Snowprince]

It's distressing that we can even talk about a "rape as drama trope".  "Wife's breast cancer as a route to a husband's tender side" is another overdone one.

 

I remember way back when the movie The Accused came out.  Jodie Foster gave a performance unlike I (or anyone, to hear the publicity) had ever seen.  It had tremendous impact and I thought it was fantastic that someone was talking about rape at all.  I often feel that way when a taboo subject is treated respectfully for the first time.  It's why I supported the movies Philadelphia (even though I didn't think it was that great) and Silver Linings Playbook (see previous parenthetical comment) and Prince of Tides and Ordinary People.  To bring it back to tv, it's even why I tuned in to watch Rosie O'Donnell's riding the bus drama.

 

The first time I saw breast cancer as a storyline on daytime tv, I was very touched by it.  Then, it got to the point where it felt like, if some actress wanted an emmy nomination, the writers would give her breast cancer.  I can't put my finger on why, but it certainly lost its way as a window into touching drama.  I think it's when it seems obvious that all the problems and reactions seem so cookie cutter, like there are no other ways to face or process or react to them.

I felt the same way about the TV movies A Case of Rape (Elizabeth Montgomery), The Burning Bed (Farrah Fawcett) and Something About Amelia (Ted Danson/Roxana Zal).

Edited September 19, 2014 by Snowprince

[Snowprince]

Come to thnk about it has there been even one disabled detective since Ironsides? A woman, ever? Even someone with diabetes? Or rheumatoid arthritis?

James Franciscus's Longstreet (1971-72) was blind.

[Bastet]

Come to thnk about it has there been even one disabled detective since Ironsides? A woman, ever? Even someone with diabetes? Or rheumatoid arthritis?

 

Lilly's original partner on Cold Case had diabetes, but they wrote him out after fewer than half a dozen episodes - and wrote diabetes as the reason why he left the squad (I don't remember the specifics, though). 

[lucindabelle]

1972 was a looooong time ago.

Sure some jobs you can't do I both certain disabilities. But I don't think we've even seen a doctor or lawyer who happened to have a chronic illness. Michael j fox on the good wife and only I because of the actor. It's weird,nip there with doctors who wear high heels.

[ChromaKelly]

1972 was a looooong time ago.

Sure some jobs you can't do I both certain disabilities. But I don't think we've even seen a doctor or lawyer who happened to have a chronic illness. Michael j fox on the good wife and only I because of the actor. It's weird,nip there with doctors who wear high heels.

There was House, living with chronic pain and drug addiction.

[FormerMod-a1]

Kerry Weaver on ER.

[Aquarius]

Kerry Weaver on ER.

 

Yes!  The great thing about Weaver is, I don't even remember her as "disabled."  She was just Weaver.

[lucindabelle]

Yes there was House. Any policemen?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yes there was House. Any policemen?

Does alcoholism count? 'Cause Lennie Briscoe should be at the head of the line if so.

[lucindabelle]

Not what I had in mind ( this is coming off the comment about asthma and how it's seen. In my experience, recovering addicts are given more props than people who were never addicted at all... Sees so you think you can dance... And there is an element of choice , unlike asthma, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, he'll even house has choice.)And he's been off the air for 10 years so ....

Any women right now?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

. In my experience, recovering addicts are given more props than people who were never addicted at all...

Perhaps, but conversely on television people get addicted to things overnight. Whether its drugs or alcohol or even something "less harmful" like gambling, all it takes is one time of partaking and the character in question is suddenly hopelessly in the thrall of whatever their vice might be. If you know where "I'm so excited, I'm so excited.....I''m so scared!" comes from, you know what I'm talking about.

[scarynikki12]

If you know where "I'm so excited, I'm so excited.....I''m so scared!" comes from, you know what I'm talking about.

 

No Doz was no joke..