TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[ganesh]

Overwhelmingly, tv can't just portray a committed couple. Even though 99% of the couples we know irl are. Because 99% of tv is taking the easy way out and falling back on played out characterizations that have been on tv for 60 years. 

[pootlus]

...because once you get married (or in a long-term partnership) it's all fucking sunshine and rainbows, and there's never conflict, or arguments (I assume this is what TV people actually think).  Which leads me to the following statement: A writer/producer who uses the words "because of the Moonlighting curse" should be taken out back and shot. No second chances.

 

I hate abortions on TV. Either the woman changes her mind for some reason, or she has a convenient miscarriage which takes the decision away from her (usually then leading to "But I just realised I wanted the baby!"). Thousands of women have abortions every year and most of them do not end up emotional wrecks or have miraculously-timed car accidents or stair-falling incidents.

 

As a fan of superhero shows, I'm sick of the "I can't tell her about my secret identity because reasons" trope.  It works when you don't know someone well (and therefore don't trust them), but after a while you'd better have a damn good excuse lest I start wanting to punch the showrunners.

Edited September 6, 2014 by pootlus

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Overwhelmingly, tv can't just portray a committed couple. Even though 99% of the couples we know irl are. Because 99% of tv is taking the easy way out and falling back on played out characterizations that have been on tv for 60 years. 

There actually have been exceptions to this, so I don't think it's that TV can't portray happy relationships, I think it's that it won't. And I don't know why that is. There has to be a happy medium between Carol and Mike Brady and Ray and Debra Barone.

[ParadoxLost]

I hate when shows take the approach of having one character deliver bad news to another from a distance (like the camera is in one room and the actors in another) with no dialogue.

 

They are going for stimulating viewer's imagination or a cinematic tone.  I always react with, 'so is it the actor or writing they don't have confidence in?' 

[ganesh]

Yeah, as shitty of a show as it is Evan and Paige on Royal Pains are a good couple. But then they write them every two weeks as awful. 

 

Either the woman changes her mind for some reason, or she has a convenient miscarriage which takes the decision away from her (usually then leading to "But I just realised I wanted the baby!"). Thousands of women have abortions every year and most of them do not end up emotional wrecks or have miraculously-timed car accidents or stair-falling incidents.

 

Not only that, but there's legit dramatic material for the potential character, post-abortion. Not to be crass. 

 

The miscarriage is the ultimate tv cop out. 

 

I generally don't like babies on tv because writers seem to just get locked in to one or two character paths and that's it. 

[Taylorh2]

DXD526,  I have always wondered....

 

what in the hell is a "loose meat' sandwich ?  Sloppy Joe ?

[Moose135]

what in the hell is a "loose meat' sandwich ?  Sloppy Joe ?

 

Sort of, but without the tomato sauce.

 

[ToxicUnicorn]

what in the hell is a "loose meat' sandwich ?

My understanding is: imagine a deli sandwich, with a lot of shaved meat slices.  Now, take away all the toppings.  Then, make the meat slices hot, more meat like, and irregularly shaped and/or with sort of shredded edges.  Pile them high and loosely packed.  Finally, replace the bun or gourmet or hard bread you might be imagining with white bread or a soft hamburger bun.  I think that gets you a bit closer.  

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.  I didn't grow up with them either.

[DXD526]

The stuff always looked kinda gross to me. Whenever we saw it, it was in a big lump on the stove and Roseanne was salting it and pushing it around. Ugh. 

[mansonlamps]

The stuff always looked kinda gross to me. Whenever we saw it, it was in a big lump on the stove and Roseanne was salting it and pushing it around. Ugh.

Which is weird to me since I was born and raised in Illinois and never heard of a loosemeat sandwich until a few years ago and have never seen one on a menu.

[walnutqueen]

I heard it one time, and thought they said "moose meat sandwich".  Makes much more sense.  :-)

[HalcyonDays]

I hate abortions on TV. Either the woman changes her mind for some reason, or she has a convenient miscarriage which takes the decision away from her (usually then leading to "But I just realised I wanted the baby!"). Thousands of women have abortions every year and most of them do not end up emotional wrecks or have miraculously-timed car accidents or stair-falling incidents.

 

How about the flip side to this - shows don't ever focus on birth control, except for plot purposes or to have the man fumble ackwardly with a condom (which never breaks, is always in a wallet, not expired and willing to be used be said man).

 

For example, women on TV seem to not take the Pill, or have an IUD, or use birth control properly, because they always get accidently pregnant. How else to show womanly drama. Or if birth control IS shown, it's usually because the the lady mistook the birth control, had a wild night of sex and of course the condom broke.

 

Also, whenever a woman is stranded somewhere for weeks, or takes a unexpected trip, they never seem to be on their periods. No one is ever half-way through their cycle, or needs "period protection" or even starts their period. Because when stranded (say on a tropical island), the uterus shuts down. Who knew?

[pootlus]

Also, whenever a woman is stranded somewhere for weeks, or takes a unexpected trip, they never seem to be on their periods. No one is ever half-way through their cycle, or needs "period protection" or even starts their period. Because when stranded (say on a tropical island), the uterus shuts down. Who knew?

 

And no woman is ever incapacitated by period pain, ever. What's up with that?

 

Just one show where, one day, some woman is in bed with a hot water bottle, medicated up to the eyebrows, eating chocolate and snarling at everything in sight. Just one.

[backformore]

Which is weird to me since I was born and raised in Illinois and never heard of a loosemeat sandwich until a few years ago and have never seen one on a menu.

Lifelong illinoisan here, who has also never heard of or seen a loosemeat sandwich outside of the Roseanne show. It looks like simply ground beef, fried up and put on a bun. The kind of thing you make for your picky eater kids when you've run out of ideas or money, and have some ground beef in the freezer and some bread.

I'm getting such a kick out of my kindle autocorrect. It decided I was talking about a misdemeanor sandwich. Even kindle never heard of it.

[VanillaBear85]

The loose meat sandwiches are based on the Maid-Rite's in Iowa. It entered the show due to Jackie hauling the big rigs and went to the restaurant in Iowa and saw that they were always busy and they could the same in Lanford. I never took the loose meat sandwiches to reflect Illinois food.

Edited September 7, 2014 by VanillaBear85

[Taylorh2]

How about some more details VanillaBear85.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Taylorh2

[BoogieBurns]

Just one show where, one day, some woman is in bed with a hot water bottle, medicated up to the eyebrows, eating chocolate and snarling at everything in sight. Just one.

 

Please see New Girl season 2 episode "Menzies". 

Sorry for the low quality clip, the entire episode is about her period pain. A hot water bottle even makes an appearance later in the episode. 

Edited September 7, 2014 by BoogieBurns

[GreekGeek]

"That time of the month" was the focus of an episode on All in the Family where Gloria comes home in a bad mood because of it, and ends up in a big fight with Archie over her frankness about it. She was shown in bed with a hot water bottle. 

 

Roseanne and Everybody Loves Raymond both did episodes about PMS. I wasn't thrilled by them; they seemed to confirm the sexist stereotype that women turn into psychos every month.

 

I just accept that there are certain aspects of life that are never shown on TV unless they're a plot point. No one just has a cold, for example, unless the show is about a sick man being a big baby or the household falling apart without Mom.

[BoogieBurns]

"That time of the month" was the focus of an episode on All in the Family

 

...and Modern Family when the Dunphy women were all on the same cycle. 

 

I'm confused about the difference between "Only on TV" and "TV Tropes". Can anyone here explain? 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

And Married.....With Children, when Kelly, Peg, and Marcy all got their periods while on a camping trip.

[HalcyonDays]

And Married.....With Children, when Kelly, Peg, and Marcy all got their periods while on a camping trip.

 

...and Modern Family when the Dunphy women were all on the same cycle. 

"That time of the month" was the focus of an episode on All in the Family where Gloria comes home in a bad mood because of it, and ends up in a big fight with Archie over her frankness about it. She was shown in bed with a hot water bottle. 

 

Roseanne and Everybody Loves Raymond both did episodes about PMS. I wasn't thrilled by them; they seemed to confirm the sexist stereotype that women turn into psychos every month.

 

*Raises hands in defeat*. Alright, alright you guys win. Sometimes they show it, but not always realistically. :')

[SmithW6079]

Releated to that, but not on TV: I can't read books or fan fic written in present tense. It feels like the author standing up and waving "look at me! Look at me! I'm an auteur!"

Writing in present or past tense, third person or first person are stylistic choices of the writer. As a writer myself, I choose the style in which the characters speak to me. It has nothing to do with pretending to be an "auteur" or declaring myself to be a "Writer" (capital "W").

[Shannon L.]

 

Roseanne and Everybody Loves Raymond both did episodes about PMS. I wasn't thrilled by them; they seemed to confirm the sexist stereotype that women turn into psychos every month.

Although, I did like parts of the Rosanne episode where Darlene got her first period.  That was done pretty well, imo. 

[GreekGeek]

.I'm confused about the difference between "Only on TV" and "TV Tropes". Can anyone here explain? 

They overlap a lot, but my take on it is this: "Only on TV" refers to those distortions of reality (ranging from slightly unrealistic to total fantasy) that move the plot along. TV tropes are the actual plot devices or characterizations that tend to recur.

[SmithW6079]

People, particularly adults, scared of clowns.

I don't ever recall being scared by clowns as a child, nor do I know anyone then or now who was.

Yet somehow the idea that large segments of the population are terrified by clowns popped-up 20 years ago, or possibly earlier.

 

I don't need to have been scared by clowns to know they're evil.

[Actionmage]

That tomboys, old or young, can't do traditionally girly things, like dress nicely for a dance or a date. That femininity is foreign to these women and that they need help from guys or overly-helpful female relatives or friends. Neither group listens to the tomboy or acts like they actually know her. The result is usually for "comic" effect. Yet? Not so much, imo.

 

Another trope I strongly dislike is The Rich Person Who Goes Through an Ordeal and Learns/Remembers To Be Nice.  While there may be some truth that underlies the trope, on tv, unless they are billionaire superheroes, they are going to be utter bastards, no matter their background. Until they meet Our Hero(es), they were perfectly fine screwing folks over for no reason than because they could. (Leverage was this trope periodically, like "The Ho Ho Ho Job".)  DH watches a show and if there is a choice for a Bad Guy, he always chooses the (usually) older, white, male businessperson. There aren't very many business folk who are nice because they want to be that way. There may be more now, because it would be "new" and "different", but I feel there are more utter bastards than there are genuinely nice.

 

On the subject of periods, I am very tired of the menopausal woman thinking she is pregnant one last time. The character who is given that story is in the 45-to-50 age range and she usually has already had children. After thinking that she's ready to enter the next phase of adulthood/parenthood, she struggles (with her spouse) about whether she should go through with another round of [enter baby cliché of choice]. But, hey! Her body just psyched her out, because she's started menopause! Phew! Is she glad not to have to go through pregnancy again, but she is a bit wistful as the credits roll and the spouse hugs her.  There is hardly ever a woman of peri-menopausal age who directly asks their ob-gyn/g.p. if that is what she's experiencing. Tv women are not allowed to know about their own lifecycles past childbirth and the fact that The Menopause = no periods and hot flashes (cue The Stripper). I'm not saying that women never experience the fake pregnancy, but tv makes the women seem stupid about their own bodies. Stupid and not inclined to find out what's going on, even with the Internet.

 

Just to be clear, I also strongly dislike the tropes that involve men/boys being stupid for no good reason either.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Actionmage

[Shannon L.]

 

I'm not saying that women never experience the fake pregnancy, but tv makes the women seem stupid about their own bodies. Stupid and not inclined to find out what's going on, even with the Internet.

Or how about the women who are so upset that, for whatever reason--usually menopause--that they can no longer bear children?  I haven't started menopause yet, but a friend went through it a while back and she was ecstatic to not have to deal with a period anymore.  I'm about at that point myself--can we please just get this over with?!  Also, we knew we only wanted two kids, so when our 2nd was born, my husband had a vasectomy a couple of months later. Then, a few years ago, I had a procedure that I was warned would make it impossible to have any more kids. Ok...and?    The only tv person I can think of who didn't care that she was starting menopause was Claire Huxtable, but in their case, they always had the "We had 5 kids because we didn't want 6 and those we do have we want out of the house as soon as possible."  attitude  :)

Edited September 8, 2014 by Shannon L.

[ganesh]

They overlap a lot, but my take on it is this: "Only on TV" refers to those distortions of reality (ranging from slightly unrealistic to total fantasy) that move the plot along. TV tropes are the actual plot devices or characterizations that tend to recur.

 

Tropes are generally cheap and lazy writing hacks used to manufacture drama because they couldn't write real 3D characters. The Love Triangle. Gah. There's no special characterization. Woman likes two men. Must Choose. They tend to be predictable and boring. They are also thing that I Capitalize Ironically.

 

Only on TV is shit you have to do to make a tv episode. Yeah, the hacker guesses the password in 3 tries. Well, people aren't so great with passwords anyway and we only have 42 minutes of show, so we can't spend 3 scenes and a passage of several hours on this. You tend to laugh it off. 

 

They summed it up on Doctor Who: The sonic screwdriver unlocks doors because it's stupid to have a locked door as a plot point. 

[Gudzilla]

The Triangle, because it can't be said enough, it's a story dependent on someone being wishy washy and unable to make a decision.

I've got a mirror if I want to see that.

[shlbycindyk]

I have a couple that really bother me.  

The first is where a group is walking down the street at a normal pace and then all of a sudden they're walking in slow motion.  I saw this on two different programs the other night and it just seemed ridiculous.  

I also hate how they treat elderly people on TV.  They're either stupid and out of it or sex starved maniacs.  None of them know how to work a remote control, cellphone, computer, iPod, DVD player, or video game console.  My dad just turned 80 and I gave him my iPhone 4S when I upgraded to a 5S.  He stays on it more than I ever did and knows all the tricks to using it.  In fact I had to have a chat with him about using so much data by doing Facetime with his friends and some of our out of town family members.  He looked disappointed so I upped the data plan.  I also hate to see perfectly nice looking elderly women and men who talk about nothing but sex.  It seemed to start with Estelle Getty's character on Golden Girls and has just gotten worse.  Enough!

[Joe]

Slow motion in general. It's used to show the more awsome moments, but I find that it's become overdone recently, and thus lost its effectiveness. Let things play out at regular speed, would you?

[GreekGeek]

Tropes are generally cheap and lazy writing hacks used to manufacture drama because they couldn't write real 3D characters. The Love Triangle. Gah. There's no special characterization. Woman likes two men. Must Choose. They tend to be predictable and boring. They are also thing that I Capitalize Ironically.

 

The TV Tropes home page has stated specifically that tropes are not cliches: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage 

Of course, they can be used badly, like anything else. But they're virtually impossible to avoid entirely. Have a look at the Older Than...pages on TV Tropes.

[galax-arena]

Slow motion in general. It's used to show the more awsome moments, but I find that it's become overdone recently, and thus lost its effectiveness.

Someone stitch this on a pillow and give it to Teen Wolf’s Jeff Davis.

[Portia]

Slow motion in general. It's used to show the more awsome moments, but I find that it's become overdone recently, and thus lost its effectiveness. Let things play out at regular speed, would you?

Now that I think of it, some TV moments that I found particularly memorable happened were unexpected events that very, very suddenly (for example, Arzt + Explosives on Lost and Roz + Elevator Shaft on L. A. Law). Maybe they stayed with me partly because I'd have missed them if I'd blinked. 

 

The TV Tropes home page has stated specifically that tropes are not cliches: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomePage 

Of course, they can be used badly, like anything else. But they're virtually impossible to avoid entirely. Have a look at the Older Than...pages on TV Tropes.

THANK YOU.  "Ugh, Shakespeare, that 'avenging your father's death' thing has been done to death. You're such a hack!" 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Portia

[ToxicUnicorn]

The TV Tropes home page has stated specifically that tropes are not cliches: http://tvtropes.org/.../Main/HomePage

Of course, they can be used badly, like anything else. But they're virtually impossible to avoid entirely. Have a look at the Older Than...pages on TV Tropes.

 

I took a look at the home page and the first 20 examples.  I have to say, I don't really get the distinction.  The definition on that site is:

 

Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations.

 

and an example is:

 

Bad Guys that are truly Evil are almost always white

 

I would say that pretty much lines up with ganesh's explanation:

 

Tropes are generally cheap and lazy writing hacks used to manufacture drama because they couldn't write real 3D characters. The Love Triangle. Gah. There's no special characterization. Woman likes two men. Must Choose. They tend to be predictable and boring. They are also thing that I Capitalize Ironically.

 

The only example that comes to mind that satisfies the website definition but not ganesh's is: If a door is opened, then the size of the room inside will be proportional to the expectation of the size of the room as seen from the outside.  Thus, the Harry Potter tent successfully subverted a trope.  As applied to a character or a relationship, though, I find the definition of trope on the website even more disturbing than the one we've been using implicitly in this thread.

[galax-arena]

All cliches are tropes, but not all tropes are cliches. 

[ToxicUnicorn]

All cliches are tropes, but not all tropes are cliches.

 

This makes a lot of sense.  But "tv tropes we hate" are probably mostly cliches.  Or, at least, tropes done really badly.

[galax-arena]

But "tv tropes we hate" are probably mostly cliches.  Or, at least, tropes done really badly.

Heh, probably. I think clichés are inherently tropes that are done really badly. And some tropes, e.g. the dreaded love triangle, lend themselves more easily to cliché/hackdom than others, IMO.

 

While googling, I found this link that talks about the difference between tropes and clichés:

A trope (in a story sense) is any plot, character, setting, device, or pattern that we recognize as such. It’s kind of everything, from the unassuming farm boy to the rebellion against an oppressive government to the wise mentor to the chase scene in which the car smashes through a pane of glass being carried across the street.

Tropes are what make stories run. A story is not good or bad based on whether or not it has tropes. ALL STORIES HAVE TROPES. A story is good or bad based on how those tropes are used.

What we like about tropes is familiarity (“Yay, ninjas!”), excitement (“Oo, the hero’s going to get all awesome on the badguys!”), and especially when our favorite tropes are twisted in interesting ways (“I did NOT see that coming”).

 

What we don’t like is when tropes are predictable to the point of boredom. That’s when a trope becomes a cliche.

[ganesh]

The Triangle, because it can't be said enough, it's a story dependent on someone being wishy washy and unable to make a decision.

 

It's also unimaginative because some people can actually have relationships with 2 partners. You don't have to choose one person and that's it for the rest of your life.

 

 

The TV Tropes home page has stated specifically that tropes are not cliches

 

I really don't give a fuck what a web site says, honestly. Nor did I mention cliches. Where did they get their PhDs in Trope and can I read their peer reviewed papers on the topic? Then their opinion lacks any more validity than anyone else's. 

 

The bottom line is if enough people think it's a trope, then it's a trope. My observations were based on the collective posts here on the site in order to identify some commonalities.

[Actionmage]

I also hate to see perfectly nice looking elderly women and men who talk about nothing but sex.

shlbycindyk, it's just an extention of the nice-looking twenty- and thirtysomethings who talk about nothing but sex. *g* Sexy Old Folks? I'm not hung up on, but as you said, if they are sex maniacs or secretly sexual ( so as not to make their adult children uncomfortable), I roll my eyes.  

 

The first is lazy, no matter the age of the character. I think it wasn't until The Golden Girls that it was okay ( though comedic) for older women to still be interested in sex. Men were usually Creepy Old Dude, The Old Flasher Dude, or Skeevy Relative. (Winning portraits, huh? *sigh*) I understand about not wanting to think of folks your parents or grandparents age wanting to have sex, but to essentially plug your ears and go "Lalalalala, I can't hear you! Lalala..." helps no one. While The Golden Girls was funny, they also were pretty respectful, so it can be done.

 

The second one, the Secretly Sexual, just makes me *humpf*.  Usually the older person in question is a surviving spouse, but could be divorced instead. The adult children find out that Mom or Dad is "sneaking out". (They are your parents, not your teen-agers. Find better words. You, too, writers.) When confronted, Mom or Dad not only acts like a guilty teen, the Adult Child acts like they have every right to police their parent's comings and goings! The person who raised them. The person the show has shown us is mentally sound as of that episode. When Mom or Dad admits that they were out on a date, the Adult Child sputters and yells about the lying and then immediately jumps to the Date is sketchy and not worthy of Mom or Dad. In the usual way, the Date has wanted to meet Adult Child, but Mom or Dad has thought Adult Child wasn't ready, which has been partially borne out. ( Self-fulfilling prophesy, no, Mom or Dad?) Adult Child then explains that they are glad (to show the protagonist as loving and progressive) that Mom/Dad has someone they love with them (as older people can't just date, don'tcha know.) 

 

If the show is trying to show another side ( Happy Ending B), the Adult Child finds out early in the episode, has a falling out with Mom/Dad. Family tries to get them reconciled and fails. Something Scary Happens/ Family Tries Contrivance One More Time, which ends in Date and Adult Child realizing Mom/Dad is the most important thing and everyone is full of sunshine and puppies. If the show is trying to be "edgy", the Date was feckless, Adult Child was proven "right", and Mom/Dad reaffirms that Adult Child is clever and caring and right about Everything In The World. (I'm sorry, my sarcasm over this spilled. Let me clean it up; just a sec.)

 

in those weak storylines, the person over the age of, say 60 or 70, is made into a Naughty Teen and treated as if this is the correct way to treat folks! The elders in these 'Mom/Dad is Dating!' panic stories are not shown as being anything but healthy, mentally sound elders.  There is being concerned about your parent dating, sure, but to treat them as if they have no understanding of how the world works or how people act in order to have sex is insulting. Rose on The Golden Girls my be naïve, but she was never stupid. I think back to The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air ( Episode "Granny Gets Busy" S2E5). What saved the episode was Virginia Capers (and the writers) not taking Uncle Phil's policing of her as Right.

[galax-arena]

The current discussion in the Unpopular Opinions thread made me think about how much I hate the All There in the Manual trope:

Information not mentioned within the show and only found in other material related to the franchise. The difference between this and normal merchandising is that this information may be relevant to understanding the plot and thus making the audience wonder why the writers didn't put it in the show to begin with.

[Joe]

The wham line and cutaway. When someone makes some dramatic announcement, and then we jump to later. In real life, we don't get that cutaway. We have to deal with and follow up on the news that someone has an evil twin/is a martian/whatever. Really irritating.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

  The only tv person I can think of who didn't care that she was starting menopause was Claire Huxtable, but in their case, they always had the "We had 5 kids because we didn't want 6 and those we do have we want out of the house as soon as possible."  attitude  :)

Let the record show that Claire and Cliff actually started out with four children, and then one day Sondra showed up and everyone acted as if she'd always been around. :-)

Edited September 11, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Shannon L.]

 

Let the record show™ that Claire and Cliff actually started out with four children, and then one day Sondra showed up and everyone acted as if she'd always been around. :-)

I thought that didn't sound right when I was typing it.  I'd forgotten all about Sondra coming out of nowhere.

[ganesh]

The wham line and cutaway. When someone makes some dramatic announcement, and then we jump to later. In real life, we don't get that cutaway. We have to deal with and follow up on the news that someone has an evil twin/is a martian/whatever. Really irritating.

 

Similar to this is the time jump, basically for the same reasons. It's more egregious because the time jump is usually on the order of months v a wham/cutaway. It's such a hack cheap move because it allows the writers to not deal with any follow up, but it's also a reset button because if you jump far enough, you can put the characters wherever you want without explaining any motivations regarding how they got there, cf. the entire premise of the Leftovers. 

 

To me, it's garbage in-garbage out. If you do the time jump so to avoid establishing motivations, then anything that results is effectively meaningless and lacks dramatic impact.

 

Couple is married. Time Jump. They're divorced. The season ends with the guy remarrying. He seems happy. So? There's a million reasons why they could have divorced. What am I supposed to get out of the resolution of him remarrying?

[Aquarius]

Similar to this is the time jump, basically for the same reasons. It's more egregious because the time jump is usually on the order of months v a wham/cutaway. It's such a hack cheap move because it allows the writers to not deal with any follow up, but it's also a reset button because if you jump far enough, you can put the characters wherever you want without explaining any motivations regarding how they got there, cf. the entire premise of the Leftovers. 

 

Like on The Ghost Whisperer, you can just time jump yourself out of the fact that Jim is something akin to a reanimated corpse.  Jim in Sam's body.  But jump five years into the future, and he's just Jim again.  Gah.  I don't know why this still bothers me, so many years later.  I guess I need a time jump myself.  LOL.

[jah1986]

I thought that didn't sound right when I was typing it.  I'd forgotten all about Sondra coming out of nowhere.

To be fair again, in the Pilot there were only four children but then Cosby decided he wanted his tv family to reflect his real life family and added in the fifth child.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I thought that didn't sound right when I was typing it.  I'd forgotten all about Sondra coming out of nowhere.

It was kind of a reverse of the Chuck Cunningham situation, since Sondra must have emerged from the same wormhole that Chuck disappeared into.

[ganesh]

There was actually a lot changed from the pilot to the actual series though iirc. 

[truthaboutluv]

Which to be fair is pretty normal for a lot of shows. It's also the reason Pilots can often times be a bit clunky and a show turn out to be amazing. That 70's Show also had a disappearing sibling with Donna's little sister.