S05.E04: Rationality

[helenamonster]

Original airdate: 10/25/21

[greekmom]

The previews of this make me so angry that I am hoping the idiot Salen gets in hot water with the board members after this episode.

I am also hoping the dad is actually diagnosed with munchausen syndrome by proxy in the end.

Edited October 25, 2021 by greekmom
forgot to add.

[Annber03]

Hm. So is Glassman just taking a getaway trip to clear his head, or will it be ultimately wind up being more permanent than that down the line?

I'm glad that Shaun's efforts to help Holly worked out, but Salen was still wrong to put that poster up without his permission in the first place. The back and forth between Shaun and the dad was interesting - on the one hand, doctors have been known to misdiagnose and not notice certain things, so it is good for patients and their loved ones to be on top of possible options, too, just in case. On the other hand, I also understood Shaun's irritation with someone who wasn't an expert being involved in making these kinds of important calls. I am glad that Shaun was able to sort out the issues in the end, though I do like that he and Glassman had a talk about everything, too. Salen's words to Glassman aside, I think he can still play an important role in Shaun's life. It just might be a little different from the role he used to have, is all. 

As for the other case, I'm glad the son wound up helping his mom in the end - I think it'd be hard not to do that in those circumstances. But, yeah, long road to any kind of reconciliation, for sure. I liked how the case revealed a few things for Park and Morgan regarding their own stances on parenting and the struggles involved, though. 

[statsgirl]

Salen was wrong to include the father in the medical discussions because not even parents who are doctors are allowed to be in those discussions.. She was not wrong that sometimes doctors don't know best. (Ironically I was complaining to a social worker friend this afternoon about a psychiatrist who got the diagnosis wrong because he was confirming his bias rather than looking for the right diagnosis.)

Salen's also right that Glassman has to stop coddling Shaun.

Did Park really think that the woman didn't deserve a transplant because she left her son?  The justification for the woman thinking she didn't deserve to be saved was ridiculous. Some people shouldn't be parents. And it's not a prison sentence.

[Starchild]

The show hasn't known what to do with Glassman since he went into remission. If he's no longer going to mentor Shaun (something he's really good at, and is interesting to watch), then I won't miss him.

[Virtual]

I say good for Glassman if he does decide to take a trip for himself. Hopefully it can recharge his batteries. I was also glad he was willing to defend Shaun about the billboard. It was nice of Lea to finish fixing his car for him.
 

I know Shaun changed his mind after seeing how Holly viewed him in a positive way, but I still didn’t like how Salen initially put up the billboard without consulting him. But Salen was right about how Glassman shouldn’t coddle Shaun, and that Shaun had worked it out on his own.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Virtual
Had more to add

[possibilities]

So here we are. Salen is the new House. She can be as obnoxious, law breaking, disrespectful, and abusive as she wants, and anyone who disagrees with her is just stupid. This is some serious bullshit, but that appears to be the route the show is taking. 

It's irresponsible and insulting but I guess that's what this show has been for quite a while now, and not only since Salen's arrival. 

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

So here we are. Salen is the new House

Yeah, only the actor cannot match up tp Hugh Laurie, so there is that.

I haven't watched it yet but by the comments here I have to say: no matter your level of information, always question doctor's decisions if you have any doubt or need more information. Especially in real life, when nurses are the ones seeing the patients, you have to question the "protocols" if you have ore information that they are not taking into consideration. Nurses have to follow the protocols and cannot change anything without talking to the doctors. But doctors usually do their rounds once a day and might take forever to come back. I just spent the weekend accompany someone (who needed a cognitive interpreter) at a study in a hospital and the first day was a constant fight, they did things that were "protocol" but that were terrible for the person, and almost made the whole study useless. The next day the ordering physician came and agreed with me (because I know the patient's history and the patient themself) and changed some things. 

I think I already mentioned this in this forum, maybe it was another medical forum but again: the third leading cause of death in this country is medical error, including misdiagnosis and prescription error. 

[cinsays]

Can we have Salen also go on a trip and have a bad car accident and not be able to return to manage the hospital.  I think she's ruining the show.  And take the blond doctor who is saving her eggs with her.

 

[DanaK]

I'm not sure I understood what the solution was for the little girl Holly with saving her bowel. It sounded like they put something in that would take care of an obstruction if it started happening and loosen things up to get things moving because her bowel was having trouble with motility or moving things along? Did I understand that correctly?

[AriAu]

Quote

So here we are. Salen is the new House. She can be as obnoxious, law breaking, disrespectful, and abusive as she wants, and anyone who disagrees with her is just stupid. This is some serious bullshit, but that appears to be the route the show is taking. 

Yeah, but she seems to lack not only his brilliance, but also his charm, caring and warmth since no matter how gruff and irresponsible and assholish House could be, he was also very charming. That's what made him watchable and her increasingly un-watchable.

And, no they should not have had the father in the room helping with diagnosis-he should have been questioned about what he saw and experienced, but not the ultimate diagnosis.

No one plays weary and disillusioned with the world better than Toby Ziegler Glassie Glassman, I mean Richard Schiff!

[izabella]

2 hours ago, DanaK said:

I'm not sure I understood what the solution was for the little girl Holly with saving her bowel. It sounded like they put something in that would take care of an obstruction if it started happening and loosen things up to get things moving because her bowel was having trouble with motility or moving things along? Did I understand that correctly?

It was so rushed at the end, that it was not explained well.  All I got was they were putting a feeding tube in her bowel.  I have no idea how that would be used, though.

[statsgirl]

They were concerned about intestinal blockage and that she could not survive another one. The feeding tube would relieve the pressure if one was starting was what I got.

I couldn't stand Gregory House and his narcissism by season 3 so I don't have more of a problem with Salen than I have any other character on the show. I kind of like that she owns her ADHD whereas House didn't.

[judyri]

I don't know, I think I'm done with this show too, along with New Amsterdam.  With Melendez and Claire gone, feels like a lot of the heart left.  I fast forward through most of it.

[possibilities]

They had been planning to put a feeding tube, and she was not going to be able to eat normally because they were going to remove her intestines.

But Shaun came up with a solution that saved her intestines by putting in a drain, so if things got backed up it would not become an obstruction. I didn't really understand it-- isn't a "drain" the same as an ostomy?  So they were creating the ostomy without removing her intestines? I really didn't understand it, either. 

I think they don't care if we understand, or if it makes sense; they just want to create the emotional moment of Shaun having an ingenius creative insight and saving the day.

[circumvent]

So, I called the bogus excuse for using Shaun's image on the billboard - it is in your contract!. But using a disability is not, so it was a bogus explanation for a bogus excuse. Having Shaun caving in the end was a terrible conclusion for the plot.

And a person is not neurodiverse. A person is neurodivergent. You can have a neurodiverse group of people, the people in the group are naurodivergent.

The "nobody accommodated my ADHD" is a cheap excuse to abuse others. It is like a parent saying they spank their children because their parents spanked them and they "turned out ok" - and all this without irony. Go figure.

The bowel obstruction thing was just one of those impossible TV outcomes. It does not make sense in my head.

 

[Zonk]

So Lea fixed and cleaned (and probably repainted) that car in what, like a day after her full time job at the hospital without Glassy noticing? Um, sure.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Zonk

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

So, I called the bogus excuse for using Shaun's image on the billboard - it is in your contract!. But using a disability is not, so it was a bogus explanation for a bogus excuse. Having Shaun caving in the end was a terrible conclusion for the plot.

Glassman did call her out that her excuse was bullshit though.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

They had been planning to put a feeding tube, and she was not going to be able to eat normally because they were going to remove her intestines.

But Shaun came up with a solution that saved her intestines by putting in a drain, so if things got backed up it would not become an obstruction. I didn't really understand it-- isn't a "drain" the same as an ostomy?  So they were creating the ostomy without removing her intestines? I really didn't understand it, either. 

I think they don't care if we understand, or if it makes sense; they just want to create the emotional moment of Shaun having an ingenius creative insight and saving the day.

But where does the drain go? Does she have a tube coming out of her or something?

[Fable]

I’ve been bored with this show, but because I still like the characters I've been watching.  I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I find Salen entertaining, and I had to laugh when Glassman shut the garage door on her.   

[possibilities]

51 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

But where does the drain go? Does she have a tube coming out of her or something?

I know! It makes no sense!

[Zonk]

56 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

But where does the drain go? Does she have a tube coming out of her or something?

I mean, I guess so? She would have had to have a colostomybag regardless. Now she only needs it for emergencies and can usually eat solid food and live pretty much normally, I guess?

Don't ask me if that makes any sense medically, but that is what I got from this.

[Zonk]

15 hours ago, circumvent said:

I think I already mentioned this in this forum, maybe it was another medical forum but again: the third leading cause of death in this country is medical error, including misdiagnosis and prescription error. 

The last one is because pharmacies freshly fill orange bottles with your medication. That is just mind boggling. Of course that is going to go wrong all the time.

How come you don't have prepackaged medication like most other countries? It's a pharmacy, not an artisanal bakery.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Zonk

[rmontro]

The part I thought was unrealistic was Leah completely restoring that MG so quickly.  It seemed like a very short time span.  Even with a full team of mechanics, a job like that would take awhile.  Even if she took it to a shop, would she have realistically spent all that money on it for "Glassy"?

I liked that water fountain thing that Salen put up at the end.

[possibilities]

But if there was a blockage, why would it move through the drain? A blockage isn't moving. How would they even know the blockage would happen above the drain instead of below it? I just don't get it.

 

[Zonk]

20 minutes ago, possibilities said:

But if there was a blockage, why would it move through the drain? A blockage isn't moving. How would they even know the blockage would happen above the drain instead of below it? I just don't get it.

I asumme the drain is to relieve preassure above the blockage which gives them time to remove the blockage if one happens again. They also said they would manage the rest with medication. So medication for the day to day and the tube in case of emergencies.

Like I said, I have no idea if that medical sense, but it at least seems to make mechanical sense.

[bros402]

Not-Nicole-Sullivan using the justification of "It's in your contract!!!" gives her the right to use his image, but not his personal medical information like Glassman stated (and I am sure all of his accommodations are registered with HR). Her complaining that she never received accommodations is her fault - ADHD is a disability under ADA, she could've requested accommodations at any point from where she was employed. ADHD is easier to.... figure out your own coping mechanisms for than autism - yes, both of them are not neurotypical, but ADHD is nowhere near autism.

With the girl (and the idiotic decision to have the dad involved in their conversations), I believe the machine was to provide a little more room (and I think some medication to help move things along?) in case she had a bit of a back up. I think there was something in the tube that could help a bit medication wise?

[thuganomics85]

After knowing him best as Lee "Said out, bitch!" Garner from Lucifer, it was weird seeing Jeremiah Birkett as a more emotional and sympathetic character here.  While I definitely question the hell out of Salen having Walt participate in the case since it was his own freaking daughter, I'm glad it at least worked out for them at the end.

Sigh... I guess I can see why Salen was "right" in the end and why Shaun relented on the billboard, but the fact that this all started with her using his image without even asking him (legal or not) still doesn't seem right to me.  I feel like she still could have found a way to get her point to him without resorting to those underhanded tactics, but now that she pretty much won, I don't see anything changing.  I know it would have been out of character of him, but I was at least hoping Shaun would have at least found some way to benefit more from it (at least an increase in pay, dammit!  He's got a wedding on the horizon!)

Reznick and Park's case was just an excuse for them to get emotional and beat at odds and then lead to the real reason: Reznick is thinking about being a mother now.  I guess now that Shaun and Lea as parents is off the table, the writers figured lets see what kind of drama they can get out of Reznick and Park possibly being parents!

I don't see Glassman being gone for good, but hopefully he uses this drive to really clear his head and find out what he wants to do going forward.

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, Zonk said:

The last one is because pharmacies freshly fill orange bottles with your medication.

You are right about that but the prescription error I mentioned as part of the fatal medical errors is about doctors prescribing the wrong medication. But yes, pharmacies finning the wrong medication is a serious and sometimes fatal error

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I guess I can see why Salen was "right" in the end and why Shaun relented on the billboard,

Yes, it was totally manipulative. And even as I don't like the way they they write Shaun's autism - I mentioned before, knowing a lot - a lot - of autistics myself, they just combined all the cliches and put in one character and it makes no sense at all that the Shaun they presented to us would have the meltdowns he has, for the reasons he has, and actually pursue the career he chose. So, even if I find the character not realistic, it was out of character for him to just accept that Salen was right. He would have mentioned privacy, he would have seen that even if one girl saw him as "different" and able to understand her, that was an emotional connection that has nothing to do with his abilities as a doctor and that it was all marketing to make money, I could go on and on. Out of character for the character they created. 

[Evagirl]

I fell in love with this show the first season and have been steadily falling out of love each respective season.  I don't know...maybe it's that a leading character seems to leave each season.  Killing off Melendez was a huge mistake.  I really liked that guy.  I thought he added a lot to the show.  However, Claire crushing on him was not good for the show.  And poor Claire - the writers would never this this sad-sack a break, not with parents and definitely not in love.  It would have been better not to give her a love and family life at all and just let her be a doctor.  Park and the blonde doctor are totally mismatched.  There is no chemistry between them at all that I can see.  I think Park and Claire would have been a better fit.  And I won't even go into the doctors always hanging around patients when they're having private conversations with family members.  

Glassman leaving without telling anyone is so selfish.  He could have at least let Shaun know.  He's the closest thing Shaun has to a dad.  Nothing is right about this show anymore.  And Satan, er I mean Salen, good grief!  Who thought of this character?!  It's all a hot mess as far as I'm concerned.  But I'll still watch it I guess only b/c I really like Freddie Highmore and think he's playing the hell out of the Shaun character.

[rmontro]

Of course Salen was wrong to put the billboard up without permission, but I have to be impressed by the growth Shaun showed in this episode.  First by realizing the billboard could be inspiring, and second for realizing he wasn't giving the father enough of a chance because of his preconceptions.  He realized he was being inflexible, and thus not rational, and thus not functioning at his best.  That's a level of self awareness you don't see very often on a TV show, or anywhere else for that matter.  AND had the self discipline to correct it.

[tennisgurl]

So I guess Salen was "right" in that the narrative decided that her manipulative exploitative bullshit served some kind of greater good apparently, I really hope that the show hasn't decided that we should like her now just because her stupid plan worked out one time or that she's supposed to be a "she's unconventional mean and pushy but she gets results damn it" sort of characters who are awful but we are supposed to like them because the narrative always makes them right and everyone has to acknowledge their rightness no matter how crappy they treat people. Like a different character from the same creative team....

I am glad at least that Shaun did show some growth, really trying to figure out if he was wrong, trying to understand biases and how to handle people he disagrees with (even if it took a bit) but that doesn't mean he wasn't wrong to be mad that they used his picture and his diagnosis without asking him for their own benefit. I guess its legally alright, but morally its shaky at best, I consider it a really crappy move, and yes representation is great but it shouldn't be at the cost of the people you are trying to represent.

Even if the dad is brilliant and has done extensive research on medical issues, no way should he be helping with his daughters treatment. Not only is he not a doctor, he's her father, and I am pretty sure its frowned upon for even doctors to work on the treatment of immediate family. Another brilliant Salen idea based around her own personal stuff and a feel good story for the hospitals Twitter account. I am a bit unsure of what exactly Shaun decided on, but I am at least glad it worked out for them, and it was fun to see Jeremiah Birkett, a character actor I have seen around, get a juicy role. 

Not surprising that the guy wanted to still save his mom, even after she left him to go live her best life, she is still his mom after all. Even if they do try to form a relationship, it would definitely have to be a long road if they really wanted to reconcile. Of course most of the story is really a way for Morgan and Park to talk about kids and how Morgan is thinking of having them, which should be interesting going forward. 

So Leah managed to fix a classic car and buy all of the parts in a day? I had no idea that Leah was a millionaire and also The Flash! 

[statsgirl]

13 hours ago, bros402 said:

Her complaining that she never received accommodations is her fault - ADHD is a disability under ADA, she could've requested accommodations at any point from where she was employed. ADHD is easier to.... figure out your own coping mechanisms for than autism - yes, both of them are not neurotypical, but ADHD is nowhere near autism.

I really hate the justification "I toughed through it and it made me stronger, you should too" (the reasoning of much of miitary training) but:

She may not have known that she had ADHD until she was an adult. A lot of Adult ADHD gets diagnosed because their child gets diagnosed. Girls especially fall through the cracks. I have been pushing the school to do an assessment on a girl that I know for the past 2 years and all I get is "We'll see how she does in a few years."  Or maybe she was diagnosed and her parents told her never to tell because it would be held against her.

ADHD is not like autism but it presents its own difficulties. Both conditions come with possibly significant social problems, the inability to interpret social cues and rejection sensitive dysphoria being big problems in ADHD.  People with ADHD earn 1/3 less over their lifetime than those who don't have it and on the average die 6 years earlier. I'd argue that a strong case of ADHD is more debilitating than high functioning ASD.

Ironically, the billboard of Shaun brought Holly's case to the hospital because it made Holly decide to pick Shaun out of the 6 doctors her father found. However it backfired on Holly because it was Shaun's refusal to work with her father that created the final problem, miraculously fixed when Shaun realized that he had been behaving badly.

I think that both Glassman and Shaun needed the former to get away for a while. Glassman had been wonderful helping Younger Shaun cope with life and the early years of his residency but now he is holding Shaun by treating him like a fragile child.

[possibilities]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

So Leah managed to fix a classic car and buy all of the parts in a day?

I think she told him earlier that it was just that the spark plugs needed cleaning? If so, that's an easy thing to do in a few minutes. Plus she washed the exterior. It seems like Glassman didn't really know what he was doing, and the car itself wasn't really in such bad shape. It didn't need a rebuild, just a minor tune up and a hose down/polish. 

[rmontro]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So Leah managed to fix a classic car and buy all of the parts in a day? I had no idea that Leah was a millionaire and also The Flash! 

If Leah is the Flash, then Salen is some sort of reverse Batman.  She's rich, but instead of disappearing she appears when you least expect her. 

The only thing Salen was right about was that someone might find Shaun's autism inspiring.  She wasn't right to put it up without his permission, just because he ultimately decided it was useful.  I don't think we're supposed to like Salen (although I think she's interesting), she is playing a villain of sorts, the writers are just taking a different approach.  She does it with a smile on her face, and she's quirky.  An ADHD villain to go up against an autistic hero?  I think she gets her comeuppance sooner or later.  

[Zonk]

20 hours ago, bros402 said:

ADHD is easier to.... figure out your own coping mechanisms for than autism - yes, both of them are not neurotypical, but ADHD is nowhere near autism.

I mean that's just not true. ADHD and autism come in many forms and levels of severity. A person with ADHD might be much worse off than another person with autism. People just don't believe that, because ADHD has such a cute name, that describes one symptom, and one of the least severe at that. I've long since said it should be renamed to the root cause, so something along the lines of "Dopamine deficiency disorder". That might get the impact on somebodies life across more accurately, that they have a lack of one of the most fundamental neurtransmitters, often a massive one. But I guess you can't change the name of a disease after it was named once, no matter how shit the name is and no matter how nobody understood the root causes 10 years ago, let alone when it was named...

Still, Salen has no right or frame of reference to compare her ADHD to Shauns autism.

[Court]

I cannot express how much I despise how they handled the billboard issue. It's not about whether it's useful or not. It's about you violating something by exposing his medical diagnosis without permission. You can have Shaun realize that representation matters but the fact that the show in no way acknowledges how wrong and violating this is of Shaun made me want to throw things at my TV. 

 

[Court]

3 hours ago, Zonk said:

I mean that's just not true. ADHD and autism come in many forms and levels of severity. A person with ADHD might be much worse off than another person with autism. People just don't believe that, because ADHD has such a cute name, that describes one symptom, and one of the least severe at that. I've long since said it should be renamed to the root cause, so something along the lines of "Dopamine deficiency disorder". That might get the impact on somebodies life across more accurately, that they have a lack of one of the most fundamental neurtransmitters, often a massive one. But I guess you can't change the name of a disease after it was named once, no matter how shit the name is and no matter how nobody understood the root causes 10 years ago, let alone when it was named...

Still, Salen has no right or frame of reference to compare her ADHD to Shauns autism.

 

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I really hate the justification "I toughed through it and it made me stronger, you should too" (the reasoning of much of miitary training) but:

She may not have known that she had ADHD until she was an adult. A lot of Adult ADHD gets diagnosed because their child gets diagnosed. Girls especially fall through the cracks. I have been pushing the school to do an assessment on a girl that I know for the past 2 years and all I get is "We'll see how she does in a few years."  Or maybe she was diagnosed and her parents told her never to tell because it would be held against her.

ADHD is not like autism but it presents its own difficulties. Both conditions come with possibly significant social problems, the inability to interpret social cues and rejection sensitive dysphoria being big problems in ADHD.  People with ADHD earn 1/3 less over their lifetime than those who don't have it and on the average die 6 years earlier. I'd argue that a strong case of ADHD is more debilitating than high functioning ASD.

Ironically, the billboard of Shaun brought Holly's case to the hospital because it made Holly decide to pick Shaun out of the 6 doctors her father found. However it backfired on Holly because it was Shaun's refusal to work with her father that created the final problem, miraculously fixed when Shaun realized that he had been behaving badly.

I think that both Glassman and Shaun needed the former to get away for a while. Glassman had been wonderful helping Younger Shaun cope with life and the early years of his residency but now he is holding Shaun by treating him like a fragile child.

Agreed. My son has it and it isn't a one size fits all diagnosis. It has been an incredibly difficult road for him. People with ADHD often also have severe anxiety and other co-morbidities.(My son has 5 other diagnoses as well.)On top of that, many people still don't believe it's real and think kids use it as an excuse. 

I've been trying to get my girl diagnosed because she presents many of the same symptoms but in a different calmer way. I don't need her diagnosed with ADHD but it's very clear there are many issues there and people just keep dismissing me like I'm crazy.

[bros402]

On 10/27/2021 at 3:48 PM, statsgirl said:

I really hate the justification "I toughed through it and it made me stronger, you should too" (the reasoning of much of miitary training) but:

She may not have known that she had ADHD until she was an adult. A lot of Adult ADHD gets diagnosed because their child gets diagnosed. Girls especially fall through the cracks. I have been pushing the school to do an assessment on a girl that I know for the past 2 years and all I get is "We'll see how she does in a few years."  Or maybe she was diagnosed and her parents told her never to tell because it would be held against her.

ADHD is not like autism but it presents its own difficulties. Both conditions come with possibly significant social problems, the inability to interpret social cues and rejection sensitive dysphoria being big problems in ADHD.  People with ADHD earn 1/3 less over their lifetime than those who don't have it and on the average die 6 years earlier. I'd argue that a strong case of ADHD is more debilitating than high functioning ASD.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to downplay how ADHD can affect things - executive functioning issues suuuuck. People ignoring ADHD in girls just because they only recognize the symptoms of predominantly hyperactive is just them being ignorant - since inattentive ADHD does exist. I wasn't told I had ADHD until a doctors appointment when I was like 14 or so, my dad claimed he had told me, but yeaaah he never told me, so I was just wondering for most of my K-12 schooling why I had trouble paying attention.

Which is more debilitating is a case-by-case basis. Based on what we have seen of these two characters, though, I would argue that Shaun is worse off - he still doesn't cope well with some things socially and he had a meltdown when the patient's father was snapping his fingers - he only gave him a few seconds to comply before melting down.

On 10/27/2021 at 9:23 PM, Zonk said:

I mean that's just not true. ADHD and autism come in many forms and levels of severity. A person with ADHD might be much worse off than another person with autism. People just don't believe that, because ADHD has such a cute name, that describes one symptom, and one of the least severe at that. I've long since said it should be renamed to the root cause, so something along the lines of "Dopamine deficiency disorder". That might get the impact on somebodies life across more accurately, that they have a lack of one of the most fundamental neurtransmitters, often a massive one. But I guess you can't change the name of a disease after it was named once, no matter how shit the name is and no matter how nobody understood the root causes 10 years ago, let alone when it was named...

Still, Salen has no right or frame of reference to compare her ADHD to Shauns autism.

I never said they do not come in different forms and levels of severity - I am well aware that they do. I have ADHD-PI, Combined (by history), and they suspect a touch of sluggish cognitive tempo, alongside autism, anxiety, social withdrawal, obsessive tendencies (not OCD), and a few other things. It could also be called an executive functioning disorder as quite a few ADHDers have executive functioning dysfunction. Sometimes you can change the name, but it takes a while because they come up with random reasons. I think since 1985 (I was born in 1990), they've modified how they classify the kind of cancer I have (diagnosed in 2015) 4 times, never significantly, just placing it in a different subsection of a subsection

exactly - Salen has no right to compare her ADHD to Shaun's autism.

 

 

22 hours ago, Court said:

I've been trying to get my girl diagnosed because she presents many of the same symptoms but in a different calmer way. I don't need her diagnosed with ADHD but it's very clear there are many issues there and people just keep dismissing me like I'm crazy.

If you are in the US and trying to get her an IEP, request an evaluation in all areas of suspected disability - the district will most likely try to brush it off, have her do RTI for a year, then do the evaluation. However, that is not recommended by the Department of Education (Sorry for the link to an unofficial site, but it puts all of the info in one spot. You can find the Dear Colleague letter by putting it into google, though). So, after they do the evaluation, say "oh no she's fine" you can request an independent educational evaluation - it will be at the district's expense. They will give you a list of probably 3-5 doctors and try to convince you that those are the only ones you can take her to, but that's a lie - you can take her to any doctor you want as long as they meet or exceed the qualifications of the doctors on their list. If you are in New Jersey, I can recommend a great neurologist. If you aren't, find a neuropsychologist who is experienced with or specializes in diagnosing learning disabilities in children (if possible, ADHD diagnosis in girls). A full neuropsych eval should paint a picture of how she functions. If you need any assistance with navigating the system, just message me.

Edited October 29, 2021 by bros402

[Virtual]

On 10/27/2021 at 9:36 AM, Evagirl said:

 Glassman leaving without telling anyone is so selfish.  He could have at least let Shaun know.  He's the closest thing Shaun has to a dad.

I think he will at least call Shaun to tell him. If not, then Lea can fill Shaun in on how she fixed his car and that he’s probably going on a road trip.
 

Glassman and everyone else that works at the hospital don’t exactly fit with the vision Salen is trying to meet. You could tell when Salen wanted him to give positive answers in interviews, that he did NOT like it one bit and only agreed to not rock the boat. And everyone is all constantly coming to his house for answers on how to deal with Salen. So I dont blame him at all for needing some time to himself.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Virtual
Paragraphs are your friends :)

[bros402]

10 hours ago, Virtual said:

I think he will at least call Shaun to tell him. If not, then Lea can fill Shaun in on how she fixed his car and that he’s probably going on a road trip.
 

Glassman and everyone else that works at the hospital don’t exactly fit with the vision Salen is trying to meet. You could tell when Salen wanted him to give positive answers in interviews, that he did NOT like it one bit and only agreed to not rock the boat. And everyone is all constantly coming to his house for answers on how to deal with Salen. So I dont blame him at all for needing some time to himself.

tbh in this episode I was thinking as to how much better Schiff would be in a role as a therapist for Shaun - but the show obviously doesn't want to have Shaun seek professional help.

I have to imagine that Glassman will text Shaun... and Shaun will probably call him with random questions when the need arises

[judyri]

My son was diagnosed with dyslexia, and when I asked his school how they were going to help him such as Orton-Gillingham training, they blew it off saying, 'Oh we have all kinds of ways of helping him' meaning some hybrid approach that did nothing.  And, schools cannot diagnose dyslexia, it takes a neurologist.  So be vary wary of schools offering a 'diagnosis' and 'treatment'.  It's all a racket. Sorry.

[nlkm9]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:23 PM, possibilities said:

They had been planning to put a feeding tube, and she was not going to be able to eat normally because they were going to remove her intestines.

But Shaun came up with a solution that saved her intestines by putting in a drain, so if things got backed up it would not become an obstruction. I didn't really understand it-- isn't a "drain" the same as an ostomy?  So they were creating the ostomy without removing her intestines? I really didn't understand it, either. 

I think they don't care if we understand, or if it makes sense; they just want to create the emotional moment of Shaun having an ingenius creative insight and saving the day.

Lol just like that “ house moment” right at the end of the episode when he wouod figure it out . But oh i loved hugh laurie and loved house !!!

[statsgirl]

7 hours ago, judyri said:

And, schools cannot diagnose dyslexia, it takes a neurologist.  So be vary wary of schools offering a 'diagnosis' and 'treatment'.  It's all a racket. Sorry.

While I don't doubt that some neurologists can diagnose dyslexia, that's not what they are trained for. The people who are trained to diagnose dyslexia and other learning disabilities are educational psychologists. (And don't let anyone tell you that you need expensive equipment like an MRI or EEG to do it. The old ways are accurate.) Few schools are specialized enough to provide the best remediation programs so it's better to go to a specialized tutoring program if you can afford it.

Now back to your previously scheduled ASD/ADHD discussion, both of which can be diagnosed by either a medical doctor or a psychologist.

[judyri]

26 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Now back to your previously scheduled ASD/ADHD discussion, both of which can be diagnosed by either a medical doctor or a psychologist.

Yeah, sorry if my post was misleading.  He was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia at the same time.  Public schools in my area were not well suited for helping either condition.  You're right, it takes private tutoring, which is expensive.

[bros402]

12 hours ago, judyri said:

My son was diagnosed with dyslexia, and when I asked his school how they were going to help him such as Orton-Gillingham training, they blew it off saying, 'Oh we have all kinds of ways of helping him' meaning some hybrid approach that did nothing.  And, schools cannot diagnose dyslexia, it takes a neurologist.  So be vary wary of schools offering a 'diagnosis' and 'treatment'.  It's all a racket. Sorry.

Districts love to full that BS - they'll say they use a "reading intervention program" and then it is something like READ180 from Scholastic that does not help nearly as much as Orton Gillingham or Wilson.

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

While I don't doubt that some neurologists can diagnose dyslexia, that's not what they are trained for. The people who are trained to diagnose dyslexia and other learning disabilities are educational psychologists. (And don't let anyone tell you that you need expensive equipment like an MRI or EEG to do it. The old ways are accurate.) Few schools are specialized enough to provide the best remediation programs so it's better to go to a specialized tutoring program if you can afford it.

Now back to your previously scheduled ASD/ADHD discussion, both of which can be diagnosed by either a medical doctor or a psychologist.

The only kind of neurologist that could diagnose it is one that specializes in learning disabilities. There's also Neurodevelopmental Pediatricians. The doctors who try to develop ADHD through an MRI, I swear they are getting kickbacks of some kind (Now if it is a study, sure - iirc Yale had a study like 10 years ago where they were looking at ADHD through fMRIs to see how it affected the brain). With intervention, it all depends on how much the school cares about helping students - at some schools, they'll let teachers for for training while at others, they'll give a teacher a 2 hour "professional development" session to learn about a disability when you could learn more from a wikipedia article.

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess I’m different, but I never thought that Glassman was too involved with Shaun.  Did Glassman think so?  I can’t recall, but seem to remember him refusing to intervene.  It’s not interfering, but being supportive, imo.  
 

Why does Park think Reznick would make a great mother?  Really?  It’s as if the writers don’t think of the life these doctors will have on the show as parents of babies.  Two parents who both are doctors who work incredibly long hours…….idk.  I’d rather see medical stories and not poorly handled writing of the doctors’ personal lives.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Was this the episode about bodily functions like farting?