S05.E12: No Direction Home

[aghst]

Quote

Chuck, Axe and Prince manoeuvre to outsmart each other; Taylor finds themself at a crossroads while Wendy struggles to sort out her personal life; shifting alliances lead the future of Axe Capital down an unexpected path.

Original air date 2021.10.03

[aghst]

Axe's top people convene to learn the grim news about the potential jail sentence that Axe and Wags face.  Besides having all their money frozen, Bobby and Axe both face up to 20 years in prison.

After they leave, Wags tells Bobby that he can't do even one year in prison, that he's not up to it despite the bravado he displays to the underlings.  Bobby assures Wags he won't go to prison.

Then Axe holds a press conference outside of Chuck's offices, screaming into the mics that he's being unfairly prosecuted.  He's going all populist and airing grievances about how unfairly he's being treated.

Why not, it worked for a certain politician?

But would a billionaire facing the loss of his wealth and going to prison for wrongdoing get too much sympathy from the public?  I didn't think so as I watched it.  And later on, they mention that billionaires aren't popular.

Incredibly, Chuck goes down to Bobby's little spectacle and they trade some barbs at each other.  Only on a fucking TV show would that happen.

They have a round 2 when Axe barges into Chuck's offices, no cameras or mics present.  They throw references and go tete a tete but it's overacting and speechifying, not good TV.  Neither of them will give and it all comes down to Bobby doesn't think laws apply to him, that he's rich and can make his own laws, which is a shoutout to the very first season, when Axe bragged about having fuck you money.

Wendy goes back to the office to pep up the troops but also to take shots at Taylor and Rian for tricking Axe and her.  She barks something at Rian about losing her soul for betraying Axe and her.  

Bitch please!

You gonna talk about someone else losing their soul?  Over betraying that reptilian Bobby Axelrod?

Taylor shows up at Bobby's country house -- I thought Janeane got that in the deal?  Axe calls her a math nerd.  Ooh, sick burn!  Taylor says if they were just a math nerd, he'd have replaced her a long time ago.

So they stage this elaborate arrest scene, where Axe's top people and Chuck's top people all convene on opposite sides of a heliport and Bobby is suppose to arrive by a sleek private helicopter to give himself up.  Only on a fucking television show!

Only Bobby doesn't show up.  So then they go into "40 hours ago."  Mike Prince pays Bobby a little secret visit in Janeane Garofolo's country house.  Bobby is under surveillance but Prince just slips in via the back door.  Oh that's how you evade police surveillance.  Only on a fucking television show!

Prince offers to buy all of Axe's wealth and the company and the bank -- fucking bank, Bobby must be thinking -- all worth over $10 billion, for the princely sum of $2 billion.  Get it?

Axe says this is a strange feeling, being on the losing end of a deal.  Like it's never happened to  him before.🙄  Only on a fucking television show!

Later he tells Wendy that he's getting the hell out of Dodge, taking Prince's deal and running away.  He tells her to come with him.  They were going to go to Fiji together, where the water feels like air, so you don't even want to swim, even though it's an island.  Now they get to go on the run and while that would be exciting for Wendy, she says she can't leave behind her kids.

WTF?  In five seasons, she's mentioned the kids maybe fewer times than the rings on her fingers.  She leaves Chuck, goes into a series of Axe's luxury Manhattan apartments, not to live with kids, not to have time with them at her bachelorette pad.  

Why wouldn't she just pay Chuck off to get permanent custody of the kids and take them with her?  He's not that fond of the kids either, only mentions them a few more times than Wendy has.  If he couldn't make his crappy eggs for them, he might not GAF.

Fact is, the show's never portrayed either of them as particularly doting or carrying parents.  In fact, that's true of Bobby and Wags as well.  And Chuck Sr. isn't exactly father of the year material either.  Billions is partly about indifferent at best parents.

But all of a sudden, Wendy is going to play the kids card to turn down Axe?  Only on a fucking television show!

 

So where does Bobby run away to?  Beautiful Switzerland, with just $2 billion and on his spare private jet.  Remember when he trash-talked that rival investment guy about how he would only have $150-200 million and that would mean reducing his lifestyle, with his wife being humiliated at not being able to afford society functions?  

Did they choose Switzerland because they plan to show Axe roughing it in Switzerland?  They showed previews of season 6, which is coming back in January, with Chuck going after Prince now.  In any event, Switzerland has this image of secrete Swiss bank accounts, used throughout history by famous figures stashing money.  Axe's remaining money would presumably be beyond the reach of US authorities and Axe couldn't be extradited to the US.

But I'm not sure Switzerland is necessarily beyond the financial reach of the US anymore because the FATCA law of 2010 made it more difficult for Americans to have foreign bank accounts without those accounts being reported to the IRS.

In any event, they want to convey that it was that simple for Axe to run away from prosecution, with billions, to a rich country where Bobby can live just as luxurious a lifestyle, if not even more luxurious.  Only on a fucking TV show!

Prince makes a cocky entrance in front of all Axe Capital employees, to tell them it's all his now.  Tells them he will make them all rich, otherwise GTFO!  Dolla Bill and Maffee both leave.  In reality, as soon as indictments came down, all of them would have bailed, looking for jobs elsewhere, especially those who had proven skills.  Taylor and Wendy would be stuck, because they had significant equity tied up in Mason Carbon, which now Prince wants.  He also wants them both to stay on.

Just like that, after 5 seasons of Chuck vs. Bobby, it is now Chuck vs. Mike.  Or so it seems in the season 6 previews.  If they're bringing season 6 back so soon after the end of season 5, maybe it will be a short season, like 5 or 6 episodes instead of the full 12.  Or maybe they will split it up, only show half starting in January.

Seems unlikely they will put Bobby Axelrod character permanently in the background or off the show, unless they plan to end it after season 6.

Edited October 4, 2021 by aghst

[mledawn]

"Taylor shows up at..." Taylor's pronouns are they/them

[janeta]

As scummy as Ax is, I still think Chuck is slimier and I will always root against him.

[txhorns79]

I do find it amusing that this is the second show where the lead has offered to run off and start a new life with Maggie Siff.  I did notice for all of Wendy's concern about her own children, there was no mention of Axe's kids.  I presume they would be taken care of, but it would have been nice to hear that Axe actually thought of someone else besides himself in all this. 

I kind of roll my eyes at Chuck.  He's such a drama queen.  Maybe if he didn't insist on marching in to let his enemies know he is coming for them, he could actually do an investigation and arrest that sticks. 

Am I wrong or was this the first time Bonnie has appeared in this set of episodes? 

And is that a permanent good bye to Axe?  I don't see how the character could really return.

[janeta]

| Am I wrong or was this the first time Bonnie has appeared in this set of episodes? 
 

I believe that’s right. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Wendy actually mentioned her children.  The show remembered she's a mother.  I am gobsmacked.

[RealReality]

I thought it was a pretty good finale.  A real M. Night Shamalayan twist on the leaker, I really didn't see it coming!  

Wendy continues to be written so ridiculous that I almost cannot suspend my disbelief.  

"If I had time, I'd tear you two apart"  Girl, with what?  Your basic ass mind games?  "You won't even recognize yourself in five years!" sniffle, sniffle.  

I also have no idea why Mike Prince needs her, exactly what is she going to do for him, get the traders in line?  Even if she could, its not worth the risk since her loyalty is very clearly to Axe, they all want to make money.  Whatever "valuable service" Wendy provided is impossible without Axe and she is far too involved.  

The only reason I can think that Prince wanted Wendy was just to screw over Axe, or maybe to keep Axe from trying to tank the company from afar.  And thats just kinda sad for the character.  For all her education, training and attempts at "badassery" she would merely be demoted to a pawn without any intrinsic or inherent value. 

Either way, I did like the ending, because I think we get a new (and much cuter) antagonist for both Axe and Chuck and this may force them to work together again.  

I also like that Prince is much more polished than Axe, so he will be harder to bring down for Chuck.  I doubt Prince is flying out to wherever to give a "greed is good" speech.  

I like that Dollar Bill and Mafee are doing their own thing and think that may be interesting.  I also like the Rian and Taylor may work together to get from under Prince's thumb.  

Please someone put Wendy on a plane to Switzerland ASAP. 

3 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

Wendy actually mentioned her children.  The show remembered she's a mother.  I am gobsmacked.

I swear, I was thinking like "is she going to talk about those kids she never seems to care about?"  And right on cue, she sure did.  Axe wouldn't even WANT such a woman!

[txhorns79]

I did not realize that Wags' lawyer was Neal Katyal, the former US Solicitor General.  Apparently, he is friends with the people who run the show, and he got to do a cameo.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I did not realize that Wags' lawyer was Neal Katyal, the former US Solicitor General.  Apparently, he is friends with the people who run the show, and he got to do a cameo.

Oh thats funny, I was like "this guy isn't the killer Bach promised!"

[Marley]

Lame!

So now it’s Chuck vs. Prince? While I don’t mind Prince this is not the plot I got invested in.

Also Like I always say is there not any other crimes Chuck could be dealing with? I’m not a big fan of greedy billionaires myself, but what is Chuck doing that is really going to help anyone. It’s all for his annoying ego.

I really dislike Chuck.

Can ppl really just flee to Switzerland anymore?

Edited October 4, 2021 by Marley

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, Marley said:

Can ppl really just flee to Switzerland anymore?

When Axe told Wendy about "a country on the continent that doesn't extradite for certain financial crimes" I thought he was talking about Andorra (I also thought it was weird for an American to refer to mainland Europe as "the continent"; only Brits refer to it that way). Switzerland, to my knowledge, has an extradition treaty with the US.

I found it hard to believe that Axe would hand over his fortune to his arch-rival, even if the assets are going to be frozen. I've heard that Damien Lewis wanted off the show, but they could have written an ending for him that was more in character.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

When Axe told Wendy about "a country on the continent that doesn't extradite for certain financial crimes" I thought he was talking about Andorra (I also thought it was weird for an American to refer to mainland Europe as "the continent"; only Brits refer to it that way). Switzerland, to my knowledge, has an extradition treaty with the US.

I found it hard to believe that Axe would hand over his fortune to his arch-rival, even if the assets are going to be frozen. I've heard that Damien Lewis wanted off the show, but they could have written an ending for him that was more in character.

They should have just ended the show.  The writing has gotten bad, IMO.  

I could watch Corey Stoll eat a granny Smith apple for an hour every Sunday and be fine.  And I think the actor is good enough to be the "anti axe" axe, so I'll tune in next year.  

I also think they have some interesting set ups for next season.  I just wish Wendy would get on a plane too.  A plane to anywhere really.  

[chick binewski]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I do find it amusing that this is the second show where the lead has offered to run off and start a new life with Maggie Siff.  I did notice for all of Wendy's concern about her own children, there was no mention of Axe's kids.  I presume they would be taken care of, but it would have been nice to hear that Axe actually thought of someone else besides himself in all this. 

I kind of roll my eyes at Chuck.  He's such a drama queen.  Maybe if he didn't insist on marching in to let his enemies know he is coming for them, he could actually do an investigation and arrest that sticks. 

Am I wrong or was this the first time Bonnie has appeared in this set of episodes? 

And is that a permanent good bye to Axe?  I don't see how the character could really return.

 

7 hours ago, RealReality said:

"If I had time, I'd tear you two apart"  Girl, with what?  Your basic ass mind games?  "You won't even recognize yourself in five years!" sniffle, sniffle.  

I also have no idea why Mike Prince needs her, exactly what is she going to do for him, get the traders in line?  Even if she could, its not worth the risk since her loyalty is very clearly to Axe, they all want to make money.  Whatever "valuable service" Wendy provided is impossible without Axe and she is far too involved.  

The only reason I can think that Prince wanted Wendy was just to screw over Axe, or maybe to keep Axe from trying to tank the company from afar.  And thats just kinda sad for the character.  For all her education, training and attempts at "badassery" she would merely be demoted to a pawn without any intrinsic or inherent value. 

Either way, I did like the ending, because I think we get a new (and much cuter) antagonist for both Axe and Chuck and this may force them to work together again.  

I also like that Prince is much more polished than Axe, so he will be harder to bring down for Chuck.  I doubt Prince is flying out to wherever to give a "greed is good" speech.

It felt like the writers shoehorned Wendy's comment about kids bc she couldn't just say `I'm still a series regular' (and yeah, I'm not understanding Prince's need to keep her on). But Axe not mentioning his sons or Lara did seem off.  The whole Wendy-Bobby attempt to act on feelings just seemed like a very awkward fit to me.

Damian Lewis exits Billions.

I like Lewis as an actor but I always found Axe extremely one-note; Stoll may make the writing sound better than it is. I am kind of interested how Wags will maneuver through season 6.

[Chaos Theory]

I originally came to the show being a fan of Sobs of Anarchy and Maggie Siff.  I liked her character in season one and the push/pull in season one between Axe and Chuck that was in part ego driven and about her loyalties.  Chuck genuinely didn’t understand why she wouldn’t quit her job when he asked her too because he had “a calling” and her working for the enemy made him look bad.    The fact that she made enough money to send their kids to a fancy private school was incidental to Chuck.  

On the other handy season 1 Axe looked like he had a fairly decent marriage.  His family and his kids were regulars and there were scenes with him patenting them.  Maybe his parenting style was not the one you would use but I don’t judge someone else’s parenting style.   It was only when the wife got written off the show that the kids did as well.    But that often happens on adult shows when kids aren’t really necessary for the plot.   It isn’t really necessary to keep them around or mention them every episode unless they are important to the actual plot.  

In this case Damien Lewis lost his wife in RL and may want off the show so the show writers wrote a quick and dirty way for the character to disappear but also a way for him to come back for the finale if he wants to.  It also leaves a lot of new story potential for both Wendy and Taylor both of which are stuck in the new company and with each other once again Taylor knows Wendy is lying to them.   And how long until Chuck figures put that Wendy knows where Ace is hiding?    The two of them have never truly been at war. What would that look like?   And Wendy has always been a loyal employee.  What would it look like when she is not and playing with peoples heads?   It makes for a decent story of Billions can pull it off.   Not sure it can but….maybe.

[yourmomiseasy]

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Switzerland, to my knowledge, has an extradition treaty with the US.

 

They didn't extradite Polanski 🤷‍♀️

[aghst]

They’ve been planning for Axe’s exit for a couple of years because Lewis asked to be written off the show.  He wanted to spend more time in England with his family.

The show runners said they had worked with Cory Stall for over a year to bring him on.

So this whole story line about Axe wanting the bank which led to his downfall wasn’t written hastily.  This is what they came up with, even though it made little sense, that he’d be liable for money laundering from a pot grower.  They could have done the money laundering plot with Grigor, the unintentionally hilarious Russian oligarch character from a season or two ago.

[janeta]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to have Axe back in the country and back in business legally in the last ep of the show.

As for Taylor and Wendy being stuck at the new company—both of them made more last year than half the workers in this country make in a lifetime.  At this point, they’re working because they want to (unless they have some contract that they can't get out of without losing all their savings and investments). Wendy is a therapist or whatever; she can always go into private practice (and will have half of wall street banging down her door for appointments); Taylor is, if nothing else, a math genius and would probably have no trouble getting hired by a B school or university if they wanted to keep working. Both of them have options, so I am shedding nary a tear for either one.

 

 

[txhorns79]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Switzerland, to my knowledge, has an extradition treaty with the US.

Apparently, it requires "dual criminality" to extradite someone back to their home country.  I believe that means that the crime they are accused of in the US also is a crime in Switzerland.  I may be wrong, but did that passport mean that Bobby is also now a Swiss citizen?  I think they always reserve the right to refuse extradition of their citizens.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

2 hours ago, janeta said:

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to have Axe back in the country and back in business legally in the last ep of the show.

As for Taylor and Wendy being stuck at the new company—both of them made more last year than half the workers in this country make in a lifetime.  At this point, they’re working because they want to (unless they have some contract that they can't get out of without losing all their savings and investments). Wendy is a therapist or whatever; she can always go into private practice (and will have half of wall street banging down her door for appointments); Taylor is, if nothing else, a math genius and would probably have no trouble getting hired by a B school or university if they wanted to keep working. Both of them have options, so I am shedding nary a tear for either one.

 

 

That is one of the things that always bothers me on this show.  These folks have enough money to walk away if they really want to.  Seeing Bill and Mafee walk out made sense.  They are not going to end up on the street begging given everything they have earned up until now.  So few people have the option of just noping out when they feel like it. 

I know for Taylor there were contractual issues that kept them in place with Bobby.  And there would certainly be ego involved in not wanting their enterprise to fail, but they still have significantly better options than most people.

I will watch next year.  I am a bit of a completionist.  But I really hope the writing improves.  I would like it if people just started talking more normally.  There are such weird speech patterns forced into the dialog.  I do risk dying of terminal eye strain from how hard I roll my eyes at what some of these characters say. 

Finally, the way that folks at Axe Cap are so enamored of Bobby makes me think of an early season of Big Brother when they all kept saying, "Do it for Cappy!", i.e., one of the competitors that was voted off.  Only after the show did it occur to these folks they worked against their self-interest supporting a jackass.  After 5 seasons, I still cannot see what is so great about Axe.  He is overly emotional in his decisions.  He paints himself as a soulless shark when he really makes his decisions based on vendettas.  Prince actually pointed that out a few episodes back.  What jumped out at me was the thought that no one else in the Axe universe had figured this out.  We've seen it from day one.  Maybe early Axe who made his fortune off of his colleagues dying on 9/11 was a shark.  Once he had the money he was more of a toddler dictator. 

[aghst]

5 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

There are such weird speech patterns forced into the dialog.  I do risk dying of terminal eye strain from how hard I roll my eyes at what some of these characters say. 

They're like Rolling Stone writers, dropping references into almost every piece of dialog.

Too preoccupied sometimes with verbal ostentation.  

Why not do like other rich people and wear expensive wardrobe and bling if you want to show off?

[Bluesky]

I thought it sucked.  Chuck and axe  remind me of cartoon characters trying to  get each other.  Foiled again!!  And in no way would any of it be feasible.  Sign over your assets to me!  The government can’t do anything!  Wrong.

Nothing interesting left,I thought they would have ended it. 

[chocolatine]

7 hours ago, aghst said:

They're like Rolling Stone writers, dropping references into almost every piece of dialog.

Too preoccupied sometimes with verbal ostentation.  

The worst one was Janine Garofalo's character talking about Sting and Trudy Styler's sex life when talking to Kate and Allerd. Not only because it's very old and obscure reference, but also really out of place in that situation.

[ahpny]

Quote

I may be wrong, but did that passport mean that Bobby is also now a Swiss citizen?  

That's what I thought, and that as a Swiss citizen, not that he's completely untouchable, but that that would create another hurtle for US prosecutors to overcome. And not to unduly diss the Swiss, but they do seem to respect money and those with it. "Herr Axelrod" seems like he should be just fine, though you'd think they'd throw in a least one mention of his kids given how prominent they were in some prior story lines.

Putting aside the possible dubious premise of whether fleeing to Switzerland would work in real life, I thought Axe's exit worked well as a story. It makes sense that he would run rather than risk jail, and that also allowed him to throw at least a modicum of victory in Chuck's face. He's still living the life, just on the other side of the Atlantic. The empty helicopter a nice, if overly dramatic, touch too. He always like a good presentation.

I think the replacement of Axe by Prince has potential and will allow the show to explore new material. And they've certainly left the door open for Axe to reappear in some capacity, however modest that might be given Damien Lewis' preferences and availability.

[hoodooznoodooz]

19 hours ago, RealReality said:

Either way, I did like the ending, because I think we get a new (and much cuter) antagonist for both Axe and Chuck and this may force them to work together again.  

Soooo much cuter! And with a normal-sized mouth.

[Bluesky]

13 hours ago, aghst said:

They're like Rolling Stone writers, dropping references into almost every piece of dialog.

Too preoccupied sometimes with verbal ostentation.  

Why not do like other rich people and wear expensive wardrobe and bling if you want to show off?

It is irritating to have them constantly use that affected speech, all sounding the exact same. Nobody speaks like that except a very small minority of assholes.     
 

It would be fun to see some beautiful clothes but it’s most men sitting in front of a computer all day.  

[l star]

I wonder when Axe decided to run. I feel like it was a process through the ep, starting with Wags telling him he would turn on him if that's what it took to save himself. He knew then that he was truly in it by himself. Then with Taylor he said he didn't think he was going to jail. I think the conversation with Prince was just the final push. As soon as he agreed to sell I knew he was running. If he was staying, he would have stuck with the billion and a half he had between the foundation and his offshore accounts.

The wrap up to Wendy/Axe was disappointing. Why did they even go there? There was a strong enough relationship between them without the romance for this ep to have played out the same way. I think he honestly thought she might come with him, which was reasonable considering she could have. Who says she had to stay in Switzerland? She's not being arrested. She could have gone back and forth, especially if she was provided citizenship too. I know the real reason was because Damian Lewis is leaving and Maggie Siff isn't, but I still disliked the wrap up. She had his back, and it wasn't enough. And he failed his loyalty test with her shares.

Interesting that only Taylor saw through Wendy's act. I think that's probably because for the most part it wasn't an act. The sadness and grief were real; only the surprise was false. Without Axe, I think they have the chance for a real partnership for the first time, especially now that they will have a common enemy. Even without trust, they've always seemed to get each other on a true level. They could be friends. Wendy got her point made to them too. Even not saying as much as she wanted, she shook Rian and Taylor.

What were the gold bar things in the bag Wags got? Axe certainly took care of his old friend. It seems Wags is already looking ahead though. He backed Prince quickly enough, standing at the right hand of the new king. As ridiculous as Wags is, I have a soft spot for his more thoughtful moments. He was really sweet to Wendy on the tarmac.

On 10/3/2021 at 9:05 PM, janeta said:

As scummy as Ax is, I still think Chuck is slimier and I will always root against him.

I hate Chuck, and this ep didn't help. The smartest thing Chuck has said in awhile was needing Axe to take a plea deal. Chuck would never get through a trial clean. Regardless of what he told Axe, his hatred has always led back to Wendy. I actually wish that had been brought up during Axe's fight the power stage though I get that there wasn't time. In the forum of public opinion, Axe had a good case that Chuck was motivated more by his ex than the law, from when he froze her accounts for issuing a divorce statement to when he tried to leverage their divorce settlement into seeing Mason Carbon's books. Then there was that final smirk at Wendy just before the chopper landed and the asshole comments he made after. None of that was necessary but of course, he waited for his people to leave to lay into her. And maybe if he hadn't thought it was so important to put on a show, things would have turned out better for him. I'm not even going to touch the need for validation from his father scene.

Otherwise, I look forward to Mafee and Dollar Bill. Does anyone besides Rian even work for Taylor any more? I continue to love the head of Axe's foundation. Scooter is so smug and condescending. I already hate him. I'm reserving judgment on Prince. He was more interesting in this ep than he has been all season which is promising.

16 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

It also leaves a lot of new story potential for both Wendy and Taylor both of which are stuck in the new company and with each other once again Taylor knows Wendy is lying to them.   And how long until Chuck figures put that Wendy knows where Ace is hiding?    The two of them have never truly been at war. What would that look like?   And Wendy has always been a loyal employee.  What would it look like when she is not and playing with peoples heads?   It makes for a decent story of Billions can pull it off.   Not sure it can but….maybe.

I hope you're right about the potential. I know Wendy isn't very popular here, but I still love her. I don't want this to sideline her.

Do you think Axe will be hidden? I figured he would just go back to living his life as publicly as ever. If Chuck figures out that she knew he was going to run, that has potential for trouble. Though how could he prove it? After this ep, he has hell coming from her. I agree that she has potential to be trouble for Prince. That could be interesting. Can she still love her job if she hates her boss?

[roughing it]

9 hours ago, Bluesky said:

it’s most men sitting in front of a computer all day.  

Naah, they're mostly standing around talking.

[Carolina Girl]

9 hours ago, l star said:

I hate Chuck, and this ep didn't help. The smartest thing Chuck has said in awhile was needing Axe to take a plea deal. Chuck would never get through a trial clean.

Chuck has never been about actual justice when it comes to Axe.  He got triggered in the series' first episode when Axe bought that obscene and beautiful beach house for something like $80 million.  He even said "he MUST be doing something illegal."  I have a real problem with prosecutors who use the Stalin tactic of "get me the man and I'll find the crime."  But I also believe Wendy was the prime impetus in his obsession with taking down Axe.  Especially since it was the Wendy money that pretty much enabled their lifestyle.  Chuck was a U.S. Attorney - everything he had was in a blind trust and the salary ain't all that great.  

Chuck's real problem in this prosecution was the fact that a good lawyer can make the case that it was a crime manufactured from first to last by an Axe-obsessed Chuck.  With collusion by Taylor and Mike.  Which brings me to those two.  I wonder how long it takes before Chuck leaks to the press the roles both of them played in bringing down Axe and especially how Prince profited from it?   If I'm in finance, I'm going to think twice before aligning myself with either Taylor OR Prince.  After all, they've proven that they're perfectly capable of throwing you to the wolves.  Since this show likes old movie references, I have one for them.  Eve Harrington to Karen Richards in "All About Eve."  "How long, do you think, before people forget and began to trust you again?"

 

[aghst]

I think Chuck is suppose to be this guy who had an almost perfect record in prosecuting high-profile targets.

Remember, he had political ambitions, Albany, Washington.  Or at least that was Chuck Sr.'s plan.

He didn't need a special reason to go after Axe, who's really a cartoon character, snarling in his privilege and boasting that he makes the rules, not follow them.

He was blatantly breaking laws like insider trading and daring them to get him.

And this show decided to write the prosecutor almost as over the top as the bad guy.

Lewis and Giamatti are good actors but they're both doing little more than barking and dropping cultural references, to show that these characters are not serious but they're hip and cool.

Almost every extended line of dialog from almost every character is pontificating about something.

It's all very one-note, which is why Billions pales in comparison to Succession, which also has a lot of unlikeable characters but they're interesting.

[MyArchangel]

On 10/4/2021 at 6:05 AM, yourmomiseasy said:

They didn't extradite Polanski 🤷‍♀️

France doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the USA either…so technically he could go to Switzerland and then to France….I don’t think Afghanistan, Morocco, UAE, Cote d’ Ivoire, Montenegro or the Vatican have extradition treaties either. Somehow envisioning Bobby Axelrod in a priests collar and cassock gives me a slight case of the giggles. 

[Carolina Girl]

2 hours ago, MyArchangel said:

France doesn’t have an extradition treaty with the USA either…so technically he could go to Switzerland and then to France….I don’t think Afghanistan, Morocco, UAE, Cote d’ Ivoire, Montenegro or the Vatican have extradition treaties either. Somehow envisioning Bobby Axelrod in a priests collar and cassock gives me a slight case of the giggles. 

Actually, yes they do - signed in 1996.  If you are an American, commit a crime and flee to France and they capture you, they will send you back.  Ira Einhorn, the Unicorn Killer, was captured and extradited to the U.S. in 1997 after several French legal appeals.  However, to make the path smoother for the French to send him back, they agreed to vacate this conviction in absentia and retry him in Philadelphia.  

[yourmomiseasy]

On 10/4/2021 at 8:41 AM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

That is one of the things that always bothers me on this show.  These folks have enough money to walk away if they really want to.  Seeing Bill and Mafee walk out made sense.  They are not going to end up on the street begging given everything they have earned up until now.  So few people have the option of just noping out when they feel like it. 

I think there was actually a storyline where Dollar Bill was broke because of his polygamy.  So I'm not sure he has fuck you money and can just walk away from the life.

Edited October 5, 2021 by yourmomiseasy

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I think there was actually a storyline where Dollar Bill was broke because of his polygamy.  So I'm not sure he has fuck you money and can just walk away from the life.

I don't remember him being broke. It's been mentioned several times that he's very frugal - he drives a minivan and not a fancy European sports car like most of the other traders - so that's how he stays rich even while supporting two families.

[Bluesky]

11 hours ago, roughing it said:

Naah, they're mostly standing around talking.

True.  I was thinking of the minions.  

[dwmarch]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I don't remember him being broke. It's been mentioned several times that he's very frugal - he drives a minivan and not a fancy European sports car like most of the other traders - so that's how he stays rich even while supporting two families.

If Dollar Bill was in dire straights, Axe made him whole again per their legendary "argument" in the first season:

Axe: Come bonus time, I'm gonna show you so much love you could start a third family!

Dollar Bill: TWO'S FUCKIN' PLENTY!

[l star]

I don’t think any of them are hurting for money, but that doesn’t mean they can afford to not work. For example, Wendy has a mortgage on a high dollar apartment and $70000 a year tuition for two kids to pay in addition to holding up the rest of their luxury lifestyle. Dollar Bill has two families and all the expenses involved to keep up. So while they’re all obviously rich, I can buy that they also need to keep high dollar jobs. 

On 10/4/2021 at 1:41 AM, chocolatine said:

Switzerland, to my knowledge, has an extradition treaty with the US.

Axe didn’t say they didn’t have an extradition treaty. He said they wouldn’t extradite for certain financial crimes, implying crimes like his. Though I don’t think it really matters now that he has a Swiss passport. There’s no way they’re extraditing a citizen for bank fraud. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

So what was Wags threatening to do to avoid going to prison? Off himself? Guess it doesn't matter since Axe paid him off in literal gold.

"...living and breathing in Chuck Rhoades' general vicinity." One of the writers must be a Monty Python and the Holy Grail fan.

Come on, in what world would Chuck and Axe be having what was essentially a slap fight out on the sidewalk in front of Chuck's office? Silly.

Taylor is a "special fucking case" all right. Turns out Axe didn't know them at all.

Wow, Axe went full-tilt "Billionaires Rule!" delusional. How could he possibly think he's innocent?

Mike Prince was the snake? Oh FFS. Like Axe won't come after him again at the first opportunity. (Oh yes, that would be a great final moment in the show's final episode.)

Heh, guess Wendy's cooch was worth $25M but not if the package included her kids. Nice to see there was a line she wouldn't cross.

Yeah, Chuck shouldn't have been getting so cocky until Axe was actually in custody. Counting unhatched chickens, blah, blah, blah, but that's our Chuck.

I don't know why Prince would want to keep Axe's employees. He'll never be fully able to trust them, especially Wags.

🎶Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss🎶 Pretty much, anyway. Prince just thinks he's a better man.

Next season should be interesting. It's hard for me to imagine this show without Damien Lewis.

Quote

The worst one was Janine Garofalo's character talking about Sting and Trudy Styler's sex life when talking to Kate and Allerd. Not only because it's very old and obscure reference, but also really out of place in that situation.

I thought so too, at first. But I think what JG's character was trying to say was that Chuck and his crew had screwed her in multiple ways and in a sustained fashion; it was not a quick and dirty takedown. Hence the references to the Kama Sutra and tantric yoga. I doubt though that the average person got it because yeah, Trudie and Sting aren't exactly front page news anymore. Maybe they're friends of Lewis?

[Bluesky]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:29 AM, l star said:

I don’t think any of them are hurting for money, but that doesn’t mean they can afford to not work. For example, Wendy has a mortgage on a high dollar apartment and $70000 a year tuition for two kids to pay in addition to holding up the rest of their luxury lifestyle. Dollar Bill has two families and all the expenses involved to keep up. So while they’re all obviously rich, I can buy that they also need to keep high dollar jobs. 

Axe didn’t say they didn’t have an extradition treaty. He said they wouldn’t extradite for certain financial crimes, implying crimes like his. Though I don’t think it really matters now that he has a Swiss passport. There’s no way they’re extraditing a citizen for bank fraud. 

I think Wendy said her bonus alone that year was $9 million or something.   She’s been there for years taking in 8 figure salaries.  She wouldn’t have to work again.  Especially on the interest rate at Axe Capital using insider trading and whatever else.  She might want to use her physician’s license to do some work for the needy in NYC but that wouldn’t cross her mind.  Hate her character.   

[AuntieMame]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:40 AM, roughing it said:

Naah, they're mostly standing around talking.

But still in fugly clothes. Khakis? Really? Can we put the lovely Maggie Siff in something nicer than bondage gear? Though I understand all of that custom leather gets spendy. Even Taylor could rock a bespoke suit exquisitely tailored complete with handmade shirts and shoes. These truly are the dullest looking rich people. I’m in agreement with the rest of the board. Exactly why are these people driven to get even richer when they’d have difficulty spending what they already have? Wendy surely isn’t a very good psychologist if she can’t recognize straight up compulsive behavior. Not even in herself. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by AuntieMame
Housekeeping

[Broderbits]

On 11/9/2021 at 12:13 PM, AuntieMame said:

Exactly why are these people driven to get even richer when they’d have difficulty spending what they already have?

Because for most of them the money is totally incidental. Playing and winning the game and shaping others' perceptions  are what's important, what gives them power.

[AuntieMame]

On 11/27/2021 at 9:07 PM, Broderbits said:

Because for most of them the money is totally incidental. Playing and winning the game and shaping others' perceptions  are what's important, what gives them power.

Ah, so compulsion and control. Things many people share in varying degrees. Now that would be really interesting psychological territory to explore in fiction. Instead we get what so many on the board have mentioned, cartoon caricatures instead of characters. 
 

France fought (or at least dragged their feet on) the extradition of Ira Einhorn. I’m an old Philadelphian and knew some of the players very peripherally and there was serious doubt up until the ruling was made whether France would cooperate. I didn’t know France was one of the places you could go and be pretty sure of living a long life away from criminal consequences, Polanski not withstanding. I thought you had to flee to the Canary Islands or Mongolia or something. 

[chocolatine]

9 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

France fought (or at least dragged their feet on) the extradition of Ira Einhorn. I’m an old Philadelphian and knew some of the players very peripherally and there was serious doubt up until the ruling was made whether France would cooperate. I didn’t know France was one of the places you could go and be pretty sure of living a long life away from criminal consequences, Polanski not withstanding. I thought you had to flee to the Canary Islands or Mongolia or something. 

Axe went to Switzerland, not France.

[yourmomiseasy]

On 11/29/2021 at 6:23 AM, AuntieMame said:

Ah, so compulsion and control. Things many people share in varying degrees. Now that would be really interesting psychological territory to explore in fiction. Instead we get what so many on the board have mentioned, cartoon caricatures instead of characters. 
 

France fought (or at least dragged their feet on) the extradition of Ira Einhorn. I’m an old Philadelphian and knew some of the players very peripherally and there was serious doubt up until the ruling was made whether France would cooperate. I didn’t know France was one of the places you could go and be pretty sure of living a long life away from criminal consequences, Polanski not withstanding. I thought you had to flee to the Canary Islands or Mongolia or something. 

Polanski was arrested in Switzerland and held for a few months before they decided not to extradite.  Poland also had legal proceedings where they decided not to extradite.  I'm not sure that France has ever taken it as far as the courts.  His Interpol red alert limited his movements to France, Switzerland, and Poland.  He has dual citizenship in Poland and France, so you can understand their reluctance to extradite a citizen.  He has also been accused of multiple rapes in Gstaad, Switzerland, where he has a house.  I think the last info on that was the Swiss were "investigating," but since the accusations are from the 1970s it seems unlikely anything will come of it.  There was also an accusation of a rape in France, but it was discounted as the woman did not act like an "appropriate victim" at the time of her rape when she was a teen.

Laws apply differently when you have money and fame and while he has less than at the start of the series, Axe still has enough.  Plus there's that Swiss passport he was handed.  And it was just financial crimes.  You or I might not be as safe in Western Europe and might have to look to elsewhere for a life in exile, depending on the crimes and the size of our wallets.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Folks,

Let's take any further discussion of extradition and other offenders to Small Talk.  Axe is many things but he is not a sex offender (to our knowledge). Posts have been removed. 

[Ottis]

On 10/4/2021 at 7:33 PM, chocolatine said:

The worst one was Janine Garofalo's character talking about Sting and Trudy Styler's sex life when talking to Kate and Allerd. Not only because it's very old and obscure reference, but also really out of place in that situation.

Didn’t Garofalo’s character have something to do with the music industry at some point in her career, too? I think so, and given her age, that reference is no more odd than me quoting Animal House (“Did someone say it’s over? Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”). Which I do, I really do.