S06:E13: GVO or GTFO!

[Maximona]

4 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

That's because the people who deliberately go out of their way to antagonize Candiace (Ashley, Monique, Mia) are skilled enough to act like victims when Candiace fires back.

Not at all.

It's because Candiace was brought up in an upper middle class household, while Ashley and Mia were not.  (I can't remember anything at all about Monique's background.)

And not only was Candiace brought up in an upper middle class household, she's been pampered and babied her entire life.  That's why she seems so much younger than her 36 years.  I don't dislike her, but I'd kinda like to see her pay some dues.

[RealReality]

43 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

It used to be a quiet dislike, but he's right out there with it now. I do enjoy though every time he tells her she is a disaster on twitter and she thanks him like it's a compliment. I want to see that same energy from him towards Mia at the reunion though, because she has been reckless on social media. 

 

 

She really hasn't said anything worse than the others, but she triggers people. My thought has always been that the women are upset that they can't win a battle of words with Candiace, and the viewers are upset that their favorites can't win a war of words with Candiace. I would encourage the new fans (like the ones who only started watching season 5) to go back to season 1 on and see how Ashley behaved before she was a new mother. Her behavior was inexcusable at times. Posting her address on message boards is also going way too far. People seriously need to chill. 

To the first point, I'm not in the Bravo extended universe, but I have to think that Andy may not completely hate Candiace, because her song snippet played at least 7 times, there was a whole episode dedicated to the filming of the video and at the end it felt like they played about 20-30 seconds of the song.  

While it may have been the editors/producers putting it all together, I feel like Andy is the big cheese, and could have limited the number of times the song was played...which is basically free advertisement if he truly hated Candiace.  I certainly don't think Andy Cohen is above petty revenge.  

The second point I totally agree with, and this it particularly applied to Monique, who I think a lot of people felt was the most down to earth and relatable housewife, despite her marriage to a millionaire baller.  She was a Christian wife and mother, who was dedicated to being those two things.  We didn't really see how unfulfilled she was until later. 

Candace may seem a little less relatable to the general viewership, she is younger, she doesn't have any kids so she doesn't have the same struggles, she was born into a more privileged position, she is a pageant girl, she is seeking an MBA and she is doing this whole singing/acting career.   She is preppy and pretty.  And while the other women may have one of two of the same things, Candace is the one who has ALL those things.  

So, I think when she rightfully shoots back, it may feel a little like the mean, rich cheerleader Heather type picking on someone.  

[RealReality]

4 minutes ago, Maximona said:

Not at all.

It's because Candiace was brought up in an upper middle class household, while Ashley and Mia were not.  (I can't remember anything at all about Monique's background.)

And not only was Candiace brought up in an upper middle class household, she's been pampered and babied her entire life.  That's why she seems so much younger than her 36 years.  I don't dislike her, but I'd kinda like to see her pay some dues.

With a mother like Dorothy I don't think her life was a cakewalk at all.  I'd suspect that Robyn probably had the easiest time of all of them, her dad is a dentist I think?  So, they were likely fairly well off, they are still together and seemed okay with each other so they were probably fairly happy and provided a happy environment for their children.  

To me, everyone has their struggles or had their struggles.  

[spunky]

54 minutes ago, LaurelleJ said:

 Posting her address on message boards is also going way too far. People seriously need to chill. 

What the hell is wrong with people? So now they're wilfully putting Candiace's and Chris' lives in danger. I hope Candiace finds out who these people are and legally goes after them. If any of those crazy people end up at her house and find themselves in jail, they better have their bail money saved up.

2 minutes ago, RealReality said:

With a mother like Dorothy I don't think her life was a cakewalk at all.  I'd suspect that Robyn probably had the easiest time of all of them, her dad is a dentist I think?  So, they were likely fairly well off, they are still together and seemed okay with each other so they were probably fairly happy and provided a happy environment for their children.  

To me, everyone has their struggles or had their struggles.  

Financially her life was easy due to her dad and step-dad being physicians.  Emotionally that's a whole other story with someone like Dorothy as a mother.

[Rambunctiouscurls]

18 hours ago, Momager said:

I know a lot went on between Candiace and Mia, but I’m still stuck on G and his cringeworthy behavior. Yikes 

A perfect case study for any psychologist besides the quack Ma Dot. 
It shed light on why Mia felt it was appropriate to bring Chris up in her Twitter fight against Candiace. Apparently there are no boundaries in her marriage and  no real security in any of her primary relationships. 

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

Candiace kind of reminds me of Rhylee from Below Deck. (Did anyone else watch those seasons, or is it just me that's Bravo's bitch? Lol!) Both are loud and in your face, but only serve back after something's been dished to them. They're not usually the ones starting the mess, but do come with a cannon when the others have flicked rubber bands.

They both get focused on because they're loud, over the top, and can be abrasive, but the catalyst for the behavior gets overlooked or seems minimized next to their big reactions to it, IMO.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, HotHW said:

I get the impression Mia brought up her mom and put the story out there to eliminate the blog universe from tracking her down and spreading all the info about her past on their own. By doing so Mia controlled the narrative of their relationship and presented her moms past legal and drug issues in a boring kind of way. Versus the XYZ Blog headlines plastering her mugshots and listing her charges and tying it all to the show. Not to say they still can't/won't do that, but if they do, ehhhh it's old news, we already knew that. 

Theres no way any of these women or their fans would have let some new girl come into the show and be all mysterious about her past and her family. Not gonna happen. Whether or not she planned it that way, Mia was smart regarding the story with her mom. 

"I was put into foster care" was enough of an explanation. 

I cannot imagine that there is some public record of the reasoning for a state agencies decision to put Mia into the system.  

The public record on Mia's mother's case wouldn't have been anything shocking or earth shattering.  Sounds like a history of financial crimes to support a nasty drug habit.  

So, I don't think a single thing Mia did was in her mothers best interest.  Particularly since all Mia has done has brought her on national TV and browbeat her and embarrassed her.  

Mia seems to have brought her mother onto the show for sympathy.  Which she gets from me for her childhood, but nothing else.  

[Maximona]

6 minutes ago, RealReality said:

With a mother like Dorothy I don't think her life was a cakewalk at all.

Obviously, everyone has their own opinion here, and that's fine.

In my book, there is no comparison between an addict who is so neglectful that her child ends up in foster care and a mother with boundary issues.

But, hey!  That's just me.

[sATL]

19 hours ago, nb360 said:

Hmm... watching someone get a relaxer... kind of weird for me since I've been going natural.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong (hair is such an individual choice and decision)... I'm just saying I haven't seen it in a while.

I hope it didn't burn.

I was just at the salon. I am used to seeing the relaxer product in white and applied with a brush.

I think Giz hairstylist was applying the base ( which I always thought it was some kind of thin grease), which prevents some of the burning/tingle, since he was using a bottle and the color was the same as her hair.

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, Maximona said:

Obviously, everyone has their own opinion here, and that's fine.

In my book, there is no comparison between an addict who is so neglectful that her child ends up in foster care and a mother with boundary issues.

But, hey!  That's just me.

Dorothy hit her grown child out of anger.  The comfort in doing that is something rare and ugly, IMO.  

 The implication that Candiace had some ideal childhood because of money and status is flawed to me.  Rich people beat, belittle, abuse and demean their children too.  See the Menendez brothers.  

[Rlb8031]

29 minutes ago, RealReality said:

What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.  If Mia can talk about moms then Candace can talk about Moms too.  If Ashley can talk about Ray getting raped in prison, Karen can turn the joke around on her.  If Ashley wants to body shame Charisse for having t-rex arms, then she shouldn't claim some special exception because of her status as a "new mommy" when she is called wide bodied.  If Ashley wants to come at a mentally fragile Katie, she shouldn't expect to be treated with kid gloves because she has PP depression.  If Gizelle wants to talk about Wendy's marriage and relationship, she shouldn't claim some special outrage when Wendy talks about her relationship history.  

But Mia didn't say anything about Dorothy. She was commenting on Candiace's video. So Candiace's yo mamma response wasn't appropriate.

[drivethroo]

2 minutes ago, Maximona said:

It's because Candiace was brought up in an upper middle class household, while Ashley and Mia were not.  (I can't remember anything at all about Monique's background.)

So does growing up in a poorer background justify antagonizing Candiace? 

7 minutes ago, Maximona said:

And not only was Candiace brought up in an upper middle class household, she's been pampered and babied her entire life.  That's why she seems so much younger than her 36 years.  

Robyn grew up in the exact same circumstances; should Robyn get her ass beat? If Mia and Robyn got into a dustup would Mia be justified in beating Robyn's ass because Robyn grew up in a better economic situation than her?

8 minutes ago, Maximona said:

I don't dislike her, but I'd kinda like to see her pay some dues.

"Paying dues"? Are we going to demand the other cast members children pay their dues too? Because in 25-30 years Ashley, Monique and Mia's children will have grown up in the same economic situation that Candiace (and Robyn) grew up in.

But we don't have to go that far out into the future: Rayvin grew up in the same economic situation Candiace grew up.  Should Rayvin have to struggle or get her ass beat because other people grew up in less economically secure situations?

10 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I'd suspect that Robyn probably had the easiest time of all of them, her dad is a dentist I think?

Robyn's dad was a dentist and her mother was a college professor and her family belonged to all those upper crusty organizations and she went to the fancy private school.

10 minutes ago, spunky said:

What the hell is wrong with people? So now they're wilfully putting Candiace's and Chris' lives in danger.

Their justification is that it's public record.  That's true.  Anyone can look it up. One of the cast members lives 7 miles from me.  I will not put that cast member's address or information on here because that's not safe and that's not cool and anyone who puts these people's address on here (when their house is not for sale) needs to be shut down.

8 minutes ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

They both get focused on because they're loud, over the top, and can be abrasive, but the catalyst for the behavior gets overlooked or seems minimized next to their big reactions to it, IMO.

Right. That's why I say people are telling the story from the middle or the end instead of starting at the beginning.

1 minute ago, Rlb8031 said:

But Mia didn't say anything about Dorothy. She was commenting on Candiace's video. So Candiace's yo mamma response wasn't appropriate.

Let's start at the beginning of the story, though: Mia commented on Candiace's video to deflect from getting busted gossiping about Candiace's husband with Candiace's mother when she does not know either individual and barely knows Candiace..

[sATL]

what is candance obsessions with Mia's feet ?

In this day of age where you can have home videos' as well as pictures on your cell phone, not to mention Facetime... why would a person need to carry a 20 x 14 family picture, that belongs on a wall  on a 2 day outing ?

Edited October 4, 2021 by sATL

[RealReality]

17 minutes ago, spunky said:

 

Financially her life was easy due to her dad and step-dad being physicians.  Emotionally that's a whole other story with someone like Dorothy as a mother.

Rich people can also be jerks financially.  J. Paul Getty was an infamously cheap.  I'd say a rich child knows for sure they aren't going to starve or risk being homeless.  But, whether its fair or not, a rich person doesn't owe their child a great standard of living.  

[Maximona]

I'm not implying that Candiace had an ideal childhood.

I'm saying that she has economic privilege.  

I don't think adults should slap each other.  But a slap is not the same thing as systematic neglect.

I respect your opinion, @RealReality.  But I don't agree with it.

[LaurelleJ]

37 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

This is a tough one.  Ultimately I would put the blame on BRAVO, Monique AND the viewers:

BRAVO: for not immediately firing Monique/stop filming Monique after the barn fight.  The fight consumed the whole season and cast members have said they had other storylines going on that were not shown because it was all about the fight

Monique: BRAVO HAD to show the entire fight because Monique and her social media team had put out so many stories and narratives about the fight that Bravo really had no choice but to show the entire fight so the viewers could decide what really happened.

Viewers: Because the fight had been so hyped up by Monique & her social media squad, it brought in new viewers who wanted to see a FIGHT! They got their lives to seeing a Mean Girl get her ass beat and they want to see more of that.  Hence all of the "Monique needs to come back" and "This season so boring, it needs some spice." 

I definitely see where you come from in this post. I will say that I believe that the actions of Bravo and the viewers are a direct result of the actions of Monique, which is why I think she takes most of the blame. Candiace has said and I agree that it is the actions right afterwards that really sealed the deal for Monique in regards to this show. I have long said that Bravo cannot air what you do not give them. So Monique gave this altercation, and then afterwards did not feel bad for it or apologize, and Candiace took legal action because she wanted some form of accountability. Then the resulting fallout from spinning narratives and Bravo decided to air everything in its entirety. Had they cleared things up, Bravo could have put up a disclaimer that due to the nature of...... we won't air this. Then we would have just had the small social media clip that was circulating and that was it. Bravo will do anything for ratings so they don't care. Look how much buzz they got for that pajama party in RHOA. That was the men fighting though, not the women. Somehow I think that changes things. I say all of this as someone who loved Monique from when she joined in season 2 all the way up to the altercation and admittedly past it before we got the full story. I think its unfortunate that those two had a fight because I liked the dynamic of their friendship. 

Before it is said that going back to the altercation briefly is off topic, I would argue that it is on topic because it affects the way Candiace interacts with the group and how her actions are perceived. It will affect her for the rest of her tenure on the franchise. 

20 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Candace may seem a little less relatable to the general viewership, she is younger, she doesn't have any kids so she doesn't have the same struggles, she was born into a more privileged position, she is a pageant girl, she is seeking an MBA and she is doing this whole singing/acting career.   She is preppy and pretty.  And while the other women may have one of two of the same things, Candace is the one who has ALL those things.  

So, I think when she rightfully shoots back, it may feel a little like the mean, rich cheerleader Heather type picking on someone.  

It's interesting because on paper, Candiace and I are the most alike on the cast, we are around the same age, I have an advanced degree but mine is in the sciences, I was into the arts, by the time I was an adult my parents had provided our family a pretty cushy lifestyle from the ground up. When she joined however I didn't necessarily gravitate to her instantly. I still don't understand why people hate on Candiace (and people like me) who have been blessed to have a more privileged position, as if she doesn't work as hard or is seen as less than when compared to someone who struggled. The same people who glorify what some call "struggle culture" will work hard to be successful and end up passing the same thing onto their children, and then someone will accuse their children of being privileged as well. It's weird to me. But yes essentially it feels like because Candiace is privileged everything she says sounds like an entitled rich girl. But won't everyone on the casts children grow up to be the same privileged adult that Candiace supposedly is now?

14 minutes ago, spunky said:

What the hell is wrong with people? So now they're wilfully putting Candiace's and Chris' lives in danger. I hope Candiace finds out who these people are and legally goes after them. If any of those crazy people end up at her house and find themselves in jail, they better have their bail money saved up.

Luckily I think they live in a gated community so they should at least have some protection, they hopefully don't tolerate any foolishness. Hopefully Candiace has taken necessary precautions. I would like to say that people are crazy, but they aren't THAT crazy, but you never know these days. 

[RealReality]

4 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

But Mia didn't say anything about Dorothy. She was commenting on Candiace's video. So Candiace's yo mamma response wasn't appropriate.

If you want to involve someone's mother in show drama then your mother is rightfully fair game for any show drama.  

Including "yo momma" jokes.  Which, to me aren't even particularly offensive because they are such an 90s take on insult comedy.  

People used to sit around razzing their friends with 'yo momma jokes in the  90s.  And Candiace's "yo' momma is low budget" ismaybe the tamest 'yo momma joke I have ever heard.  

In fact, in my fifteen seconds of google research there was a show called "yo momma" and here is a taste of how much worse those jokes can go

 

 

[WhatAmIWatching]

10 minutes ago, sATL said:

what is candance obsessions with Mia's feet ?

In this day of age where you can have home videos' as well as pictures on your cell phone, not to mention Facetime... why would a person need to carry a 20 x 14 family picture on a 2 day outing ?

How better to remind the others that you now have two babies at home, (and a creepy husband), when you want to deflect any mess you may cause? 😂 

[RealReality]

13 minutes ago, Maximona said:

I'm not implying that Candiace had an ideal childhood.

I'm saying that she has economic privilege.  

I don't think adults should slap each other.  But a slap is not the same thing as systematic neglect.

I respect your opinion, @RealReality.  But I don't agree with it.

I respect that, though I'd say that I'm not sure economic privilege automatically confers as much actual privilege as people may think.  

However, I'm thrilled to have a differing point of view that hasn't devolved into salad throwing, hand waving and 'yo momma jokes.  LOL.  

Guess I don't need anyones candles since this convo is all zen and what not :)

2 minutes ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

How better to remind the others that you now have two babies at home, (and a creepy husband), when you want to deflect any mess you may cause? 😂 

That was so weird.  

If Ashley wanted to do all that, she should have gotten the picture put on a tee shirt.  

[eXiled]

35 minutes ago, WhatAmIWatching said:

Candiace kind of reminds me of Rhylee from Below Deck. (Did anyone else watch those seasons, or is it just me that's Bravo's bitch? Lol!) Both are loud and in your face, but only serve back after something's been dished to them. They're not usually the ones starting the mess, but do come with a cannon when the others have flicked rubber bands.

They both get focused on because they're loud, over the top, and can be abrasive, but the catalyst for the behavior gets overlooked or seems minimized next to their big reactions to it, IMO.

Never watched this show. Thanks for the rec, hon!

[Rlb8031]

6 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Let's start at the beginning of the story, though: Mia commented on Candiace's video to deflect from getting busted gossiping about Candiace's husband with Candiace's mother when she does not know either individual and barely knows Candiace..

Under your version of proportionality, doesn't that make Candiace's response improper? Candiace didn't turn the tables on Mia, by responding about G's lack of work ethic, she started talking about Mia's mom who has never even met Candiace or been involved with her on the show in any way. And Mia held a conversation in which Dot was not only approached, but willingly participated. How is that justification for then saying anything about Mia's mom? 

I think the real issue is that Candiace was pissed at Dot for saying shady stuff about her husband to women that could use it against them, but rather than publicly saying either her mama was wrong or her mama was a liar she's deflected her anger onto Mia who, in Candiace's book, should have known better. Yes, Mia was gossiping, but Candiace didn't respond to what was done, she responded to how she felt. 

11 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Robyn grew up in the exact same circumstances; should Robyn get her ass beat? If Mia and Robyn got into a dustup would Mia be justified in beating Robyn's ass because Robyn grew up in a better economic situation than her?

See this is where the assumption that the women's responses to Candiace are about jealousy or about colorism or any other thing except Candiace's choices in how she fights run afoul of the actual narrative. The fact is, no one wants to beat Robyn's ass, primarily because when Robyn fights verbally she doesn't go for the jugular. Wendy was arguing with Robyn and there wasn't any ratcheting up of the argument to a physical level because neither Robyn or Wendy made a move toward the other, or did anything other than yell over each other. Neither of them talked about each others husbands, mamas or children as a way to hurt or harm.

Y'all keep saying that there are these underlying reasons for the anger against Candiace that have to do with everything but her behavior, but that isn't really borne out by the way the other cast members treat each other.  When Robyn rode up to Oz to tell Ashley to keep Juan's name out of her mouth, no one suggested that Ashley was unfairly being targeted because Robyn has led a privileged life, or because she was the victim of Robyn's light-skinned privilege. She was simply someone who had said something slick and then had to deal with the consequences. I don't get why the same isn't true of Candiace.

[HotHW]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

So having said this, was it justified for Monique to beat up Candiace last year and would it have been justified for Mia to have put her hands on Candiace in last night's episode?

And if so, would it have been justified for Wendy to fight Mia on last week's episode?

This is what I mean by the toxic double standards.  Yes, Candiace has a point BUT (she still needs her ass beat).

If we are all in agreement that Candiace (and only Candiace) needs her ass beat for the same things her cast members do then we the audience need to press Andy and BRAVO to fire Candiace after this season, not because of anything she's done or said but we the audience don't like her and don't want to see her on our TV screens again.

I just want people to be honest about this and stop creating justifications, double standards and pretzel twisting over why Candiace (and nobody else on the cast) needs to be dragged for the same things her cast members do and say.

There are no double standards. Candiace talks and acts like trash. She brings the show down. She likes to cry alot after the fact never acknowledging her part in anything. And noone else is running around daring people to "drag" them. That's just her thing. 

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, eXiled said:

 

I believe strongly that anytime Mia tries to assert herself, Big G will drop Mia back off in the hood and run down to the strip club to make it rain. Who knows? Maybe next time he'll rescue one of the white women he was grinning about.

Marry for money and you work for every last penny.

True. 

Both G and Mia are trash, IMO.  

Him literally going around and telling everyone to shush so they could hear that conversation about the G-Wagon was the most cringey thing of the season, knocking back Juan's dismissive call to second place.  

Just ugh, ugh, ugh.  No, no, no.  I'm sure she will have the G-Wagon, but they very clearly set up this moment for the show, and its just so thirsty and attention seeking.  I wonder if that was just a friend or employee on the phone pretending to be from the dealership.  

I just can't.  Ick.  

Talking about Wendy having her boobs out isn't appropriate for a girls trip, but this man is making all kids of leering faces, pantomiming a giant penis, telling everyone he is hung, asking where the white women at and Mia talking about how she is gonna have to give him sex is somehow an Emily Post level of etiquette.  

But geez, that conversation about the car, that was worse than the "valet" comments, which again, are ridiculous.  People who are comfortable in their wealth don't need to remind you that they can't carry their luggage and like their drawers folded into swan shapes.  Its just a line of demarcation to separate yourself from the "dirty poors" and its unbecoming.  You don't need to keep reminding people that you have more money than them, they get it.  

[Maximona]

17 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I respect that, though I'd say that I'm not sure economic privilege automatically confers as much actual privilege as people may think.  

However, I'm thrilled to have a differing point of view that hasn't devolved into salad throwing, hand waving and 'yo momma jokes.  LOL.  

Guess I don't need anyones candles since this convo is all zen and what not :)

Obviously, I'd make a terrible Housewife.  😊

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, HotHW said:

There are no double standards. Candiace talks and acts like trash. She brings the show down. She likes to cry alot after the fact never acknowledging her part in anything. And noone else is running around daring people to "drag" them. That's just her thing. 

I think Candace does own her part, and has apologized.  For instance, she apologized to Gizelle at the start of the last season, because she realized she shouldn't have said what she said about Gizelle's tacky house.  She made her peace with Ashley, IIRC, and apologized to her at the start of last season which is why she was hurt when Ashley decided to write that statement as payback.  

As for the situation at the winery, I'm not sure what part she had to apologize for.  Saying "drag me" doesn't mean that its Candace's fault that Monique physically attacked her.  Daring someone doesn't make you accountable for their actions.  If I dared you to a street race and the police only caught you, am I responsible for your decision to engage in a street race?  I don't think so.  

And focusing on "drag me" ignores that multiple times Candiace walked away from Monique or simply apologized to her to avoid Monique's very clear instigation.  Monique was offended that Candiace wouldn't show up on her podcast to be a punching bag.  

Just now, Maximona said:

Obviously, I'd make a terrible Housewife.  😊

That depends, how many wicks do your candles have?  

[gatopretoNYC]

3 hours ago, Maximona said:

And Candiace's video shoot was "low-budget" not because it took place in a parking lot but because it did not have a production assistant telling people what they should be doing as soon as they arrived on set.

Yes, and there should have been a table with some beverages for the "guest stars." And some chairs for them to sit in while waiting.

[spunky]

46 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

So does growing up in a poorer background justify antagonizing Candiace? 

Robyn grew up in the exact same circumstances; should Robyn get her ass beat? If Mia and Robyn got into a dustup would Mia be justified in beating Robyn's ass because Robyn grew up in a better economic situation than her?

"Paying dues"? Are we going to demand the other cast members children pay their dues too? Because in 25-30 years Ashley, Monique and Mia's children will have grown up in the same economic situation that Candiace (and Robyn) grew up in.

But we don't have to go that far out into the future: Rayvin grew up in the same economic situation Candiace grew up.  Should Rayvin have to struggle or get her ass beat because other people grew up in less economically secure situations?

Robyn's dad was a dentist and her mother was a college professor and her family belonged to all those upper crusty organizations and she went to the fancy private school.

Their justification is that it's public record.  That's true.  Anyone can look it up. One of the cast members lives 7 miles from me.  I will not put that cast member's address or information on here because that's not safe and that's not cool and anyone who puts these people's address on here (when their house is not for sale) needs to be shut down.

Right. That's why I say people are telling the story from the middle or the end instead of starting at the beginning.

Let's start at the beginning of the story, though: Mia commented on Candiace's video to deflect from getting busted gossiping about Candiace's husband with Candiace's mother when she does not know either individual and barely knows Candiace..

I hope they know that the 90 days they'll spend in jail for harassment will be public record as well.

49 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Rich people can also be jerks financially.  J. Paul Getty was an infamously cheap.  I'd say a rich child knows for sure they aren't going to starve or risk being homeless.  But, whether its fair or not, a rich person doesn't owe their child a great standard of living.  

That's true as well. I have to go research J. Paul Getty now because I've never heard of him.

[eXiled]

All the posts about class and socioeconomic background have triggered me. Though I don't always agree with Candiace's responses to issues, I get her. I was an only child whose cousins and classmates accused of being spoiled. I developed a slick mouth too and wasn't afraid to step to hood bitches because they thought me wearing a uniform made me soft and weak. I became a nasty piece of work after a while -- always on guard, sarcastic, and anxious. Instead of showing that and being vulnerable, I stayed on ready. I won a few fights, and lost a few, but my main goal was to get people to back off. And they did. Unfortunately, being known for a slick mouth can make you lonely.

I guess I'm biased, but between what I've seen of Candiace's over-the-top reactions to petty slights and her relationship with her mother, I wouldn't be surprised to learn she is suffering from some form of PTSD. It isn't just diagnosed in prisoners of war, police officers or battered wives. PTSD can develop when a person is constantly placed in situations where she feels she has to defend her very existence.

I get people's negative reactions to Candiace's overreactions, but I've said this before: You can't come at somebody and dictate their response. That works both ways, though. I've been assaulted because someone decided I thought I was "better" or "smarter" or "bougie." I don't care how many times I see people deny it, that shit happens. I lived it before Brooklyn became a gentrified utopia where one-room studios rent out for $3,000 a month.

Having people step to you because of how you look, the way you speak, and the way you present yourself can really do a number on your head. It fucked me up for a lot of years. So while I'm not saying I agree with everything Candiace does, I will say that I understand. I just hope she gets help -- and from a specialist more talented than that narc mother who can't see her own insanity. Dot helped create the problem.

[drivethroo]

22 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Under your version of proportionality, doesn't that make Candiace's response improper? Candiace didn't turn the tables on Mia, by responding about G's lack of work ethic, she started talking about Mia's mom who has never even met Candiace or been involved with her on the show in any way. And Mia held a conversation in which Dot was not only approached, but willingly participated. How is that justification for then saying anything about Mia's mom? 

Deflection.  Candiace's video being low budget or not had nothing to do with Mia gossiping about Candiace's husband and his economic situation.  Let's take Dorothy completely out of the situation because the meat and potatoes was Mia was gossiping about Candiace's husband (whom she had never met and did not know).  So why is it ok for Mia to gossip about Candiace's husband but Candiace is wrong for calling G a pimp? Wasn't Mia trying to imply that Chris was a) broke b) living off Candiace c) incompetent at his job?

25 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Wendy was arguing with Robyn and there wasn't any ratcheting up of the argument to a physical level because neither Robyn or Wendy made a move toward the other, or did anything other than yell over each other.

But Wendy was also arguing with Gizelle, Gizelle didn't make any moves or ratchet up and Wendy was threatening to whoop Gizelle's ass.

And by the logic you stated in your paragraph about husbands and children, Gizelle would've had every right to beat WENDY's ass for talking about how she brought "that man" (their father) around her children.  Jamal isn't R. Kelly; he's their dad.

30 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Y'all keep saying that there are these underlying reasons for the anger against Candiace that have to do with everything but her behavior, but that isn't really borne out by the way the other cast members treat each other.  When Robyn rode up to Oz to tell Ashley to keep Juan's name out of her mouth, no one suggested that Ashley was unfairly being targeted because Robyn has led a privileged life, or because she was the victim of Robyn's light-skinned privilege. She was simply someone who had said something slick and then had to deal with the consequences. I don't get why the same isn't true of Candiace.

Robyn vs. Ashley isn't even an example of colorism, if we really want to go down that road. Colorism as it relates to Robyn would be:

• Robyn drove to Virginia to get all up in Ashley's face and never once was called "aggressive"
• Robyn told Monique to "drag her" on the streets and never once did anyone say "Robyn needs her ass beat"
• Robyn called Wendy "loose" and an "asshole" and none of these people calling for the beating of Candiace are calling for the beating of Robyn
• Robyn has gotten into meltdowns over Ashley's gossiping about Juan and never once was Robyn called a little girl, out of control or needing to be dragged

Colorism as it relates to Ashley would be:

• Ashley harassing Robyn about Juan for 3 years but they never ganged up on her to apologize or tried to ice her out of the group
• Ashley bodyshaming at least half of the cast and their family members including hits like dried up penises, T rex arms, vaginas flapping in the wind, having a body like a boy, looking like a hamster etc and we did not see the cast, viewers or Andy Cohen cluctching their pearls over it
• Ashley harassing Katie off the cast trip by grinding down on Katie's mental health and kids being taken away ---where were the calls for her ass to get beat?
• Ashley insinuating Monique was drunk driving & that's the reason why she miscarried ---Monique didn't want to beat her ass for that?
• Andy Cohen continuously browbeating Candiace to apologize to Ashley for the same set of tweets, even though Ashley was tweeting equally vile things to Candiace? (and as a bonus, we will probably not see Andy grind down on Mia about her tweets either)
• Ashley now hiding behind her children to get out of being held accountable for her role in the conflict.  Wendy didn't get to hide behind her children.  Why is that?

We even see from this season a light skinned cast member wave her hands all up in another cast member's face on 3 separate occasions after being told NOT to and there have been ZERO calls for that cast member to get their ass beat for doing the same thing Candiace did to Monique last season that was used as a justificataion for why Candiace needed to get her ass beat.

47 minutes ago, HotHW said:

There are no double standards.

There are most certainly double standards but thanks for proving my point.

48 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Him literally going around and telling everyone to shush so they could hear that conversation about the G-Wagon was the most cringey thing of the season,

Wasn't she just mocking Askale on the previous episode for having new car tags?  But now they're having speakerphone conversations so everyone can be "impressed" Mia is getting a new car?

43 minutes ago, RealReality said:

which is why she was hurt when Ashley decided to write that statement as payback.  

The police statement is actually the most glaring example of the colorism, if we were to make that claim.

We've seen Michael say several times, "Candiace is a criminal" or "That girl is a criminal."

We've seen Ashley state "Candiace has a rap sheet."

Candiace has not been arrested, charged or convicted of any crimes.  The person who HAS been charged with crimes is Michael.  And neither Michael nor Ashley started calling Candiace a criminal until Chris Bassett gave his statement/testimony about what happened to the cameraman at Monique's house.  Michael hasn't even called Chris Bassett a criminal, but he's stated on film several times that Candiace is one.  Why is that?  Perhaps when Ashley gave the statement to the police that Candiace is "violent" for the butter knife incident, she forgot to mention she was actually trespassing at Candiace Dorothy's house after being asked to leave.  Twice.

4 minutes ago, eXiled said:

All the posts about class and socioeconomic background have triggered me.

Class, socioeconomic background, race/skin color have always been the lava that boils under the surface with this show from the very first episode and a lot of people who enjoy the RHOAs were turned off from this show way back in season 1 because the majority of the cast was light skinned or biracial.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, spunky said:

I hope they know that the 90 days they'll spend in jail for harassment will be public record as well.

That's true as well. I have to go research J. Paul Getty now because I've never heard of him.

LOL.  I live in California and the Getty museum and villa are a huge deal.  

So I always assumed he was just a nice rich guy.  Not so!

If you have HULU, there is an FX show called TRUST that is a drama about the kidnapping of his grandson.  Very interesting.  

Long story short, everyone assumed that with the last name Getty you could ransom the grandson... but Getty was one of those guys who really wanted to haggle the ransom.  

[eXiled]

2 minutes ago, RealReality said:

LOL.  I live in California and the Getty museum and villa are a huge deal.  

So I always assumed he was just a nice rich guy.  Not so!

If you have HULU, there is an FX show called TRUST that is a drama about the kidnapping of his grandson.  Very interesting.  

Long story short, everyone assumed that with the last name Getty you could ransom the grandson... but Getty was one of those guys who really wanted to haggle the ransom.  

JP Getty didn't care about nothing but that money, honey! I won't spoil, but let's just say old dude drove a hard bargain.

Being born into privilege ain't for the weak, believe it or not. The personality types who amass great wealth don't usually climb to the top on a cloud of hugs and kisses. They know how to metaphorically stab people out in these streets; many of them take home the same attitude to their own families.

That's why I don't sleep on my girl, Oprah. You know she got the worker bees down at Harpo shook!

[Rlb8031]

35 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Deflection.  Candiace's video being low budget or not had nothing to do with Mia gossiping about Candiace's husband and his economic situation.  Let's take Dorothy completely out of the situation because the meat and potatoes was Mia was gossiping about Candiace's husband (whom she had never met and did not know).  So why is it ok for Mia to gossip about Candiace's husband but Candiace is wrong for calling G a pimp? Wasn't Mia trying to imply that Chris was a) broke b) living off Candiace c) incompetent at his job?

So Mia was gossiping about Chris - Candiace's response was to talk about Mia's mom - not G. Then when Mia didn't turn up Candiace, called Mia a ho, then when Mia still didn't turn up, she turned and called G a pimp. So who exactly is deflecting? 

And while Mia was absolutely gossiping, did she say anything negative about Chris? I thought she asked Dot questions, and then Dot took the ball and ran with it. I'll give you the implications about a &b because I haven't looked back at that episode again, but I don't recall anything she said implied c. 

Quote

And by the logic you stated in your paragraph about husbands and children, Gizelle would've had every right to beat WENDY's ass for talking about how she brought "that man" (their father) around her children.  Jamal isn't R. Kelly; he's their dad.

She wouldn't have had the right to beat her ass, but she certainly could have threatened to beat her ass, the same way Wendy threatened to beat Gizelle's ass when they were having the conversation about the rumor in Williamsburg. Wendy was very clear on camera - come for my husband or family and I will beat your ass. And yet, Wendy wasn't ostracized by the group or seen as a threat by anyone. That threat, even from a dark-skinned woman, wasn't an issue. This group responds to Candiace differently than they do to the other ladies, and Candiace continues to say its about all these other things, rather than about the way she chooses to engage.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Rlb8031

[spunky]

22 minutes ago, RealReality said:

LOL.  I live in California and the Getty museum and villa are a huge deal.  

So I always assumed he was just a nice rich guy.  Not so!

If you have HULU, there is an FX show called TRUST that is a drama about the kidnapping of his grandson.  Very interesting.  

Long story short, everyone assumed that with the last name Getty you could ransom the grandson... but Getty was one of those guys who really wanted to haggle the ransom.  

I'll definitely check it out

[drivethroo]

6 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

So Mia was gossiping about Chris - Candiace's response was to talk about Mia's mom - not G.

Just like Mia's response to being confronted about gossiping about Chris was to talk about Candiace's video.

9 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Then when Mia didn't turn up Candiace, called Mia a ho, then when Mia still didn't turn up, she turned and called G a pimp. So who exactly is deflecting? 

Actually, Candiace was calmly telling Mia why she was upset and Mia decided to not only call Candiace's video low-budget several more times but to justify why she needed to call Candiace's video low-budget.

11 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

And while Mia was absolutely gossiping, did she say anything negative about Chris?

I would say Mia asking if Chris is on the payroll when she doesn't know Chris, has never met Chris, just met Dorothy is being negative, especially when Candiace told the group on a previous episode she wasn't paying Chris.

 

[Maximona]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Class, socioeconomic background, race/skin color have always been the lava that boils under the surface with this show from the very first episode and a lot of people who enjoy the RHOAs were turned off from this show way back in season 1 because the majority of the cast was light skinned or biracial.

Actually, this is the reason I started watching Potomac.  In the first couple of seasons, race issues were dealt with in a way I'd never seen before. I'm white, and my Black friends don't talk to me about race.  There's only so much you can learn from reading Toni Morrison novels.

Race doesn't seem to me to be as big a theme now as it was the first two seasons—beyond the use of slang terms that I'm unfamiliar with.

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

So why is it ok for Mia to gossip about Candiace's husband

Mia asked a question about Candiace's husband.  I agree that the question was inappropriate.  But is asking a question gossiping?

[HotHW]

6 hours ago, RealReality said:

If you want to involve someone's mother in show drama then your mother is rightfully fair game for any show drama.  

Including "yo momma" jokes.  Which, to me aren't even particularly offensive because they are such an 90s take on insult comedy.  

People used to sit around razzing their friends with 'yo momma jokes in the  90s.  And Candiace's "yo' momma is low budget" ismaybe the tamest 'yo momma joke I have ever heard.  

In fact, in my fifteen seconds of google research there was a show called "yo momma" and here is a taste of how much worse those jokes can go

 

 

Candiace's mother is literally on the show causing most of the trouble surrounding her daughter. She's fair game as far as I'm concerned. If Candiace doesnt want people talking about her mom, then tell her to go away and shut her mouth. 

Candiace wasnt making a lame 90's yo momma joke. Candiace is trash. And continues to prove it week after week. 

[Boofish]

Honestly in their own special way, they are all awful. With my personal top 3 in no particular order being Robyn, Ashley and Candiace. For different reasons, for me personally. 

Gizelle belongs on a list with Ramona, Brandi and Lisa Rinna.

[Baltimore Betty]

13 hours ago, RealReality said:

I live in California and the Getty museum and villa are a huge deal.  

I went to the Getty Art Museum many years ago, it was amazing, the amount of art is awe inspiring and the building and grounds are interesting, all it takes a whole lot of money!

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, HotHW said:

Candiace's mother is literally on the show causing most of the trouble surrounding her daughter. She's fair game as far as I'm concerned. If Candiace doesnt want people talking about her mom, then tell her to go away and shut her mouth. 

Candiace wasnt making a lame 90's yo momma joke. Candiace is trash. And continues to prove it week after week. 

Candace was absolutely making a yo momma joke.  "'Yo momma is low budget" is pretty clearly along the lines of a yo momma joke particularly as candace doesn't know Mias mother.  

Mia didn't have to ask Dorothy about chris"s pay even if dot was willing to talk about it.  

So mia put mothers into the mix between she and candace by entertaining and encouraging the conversation. 

Therefore she should not expect that her mother will be off limits when candace comes for her.   

Particularly as Mia has put her mother and her problems on display on national TV for a storyline. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I went to the Getty Art Museum many years ago, it was amazing, the amount of art is awe inspiring and the building and grounds are interesting, all it takes a whole lot of money!

It is a massive collection.   

Way way way back in the day they only had the Getty villa in Malibu and the collection was so massive they would rotate it like every 6 months IIRC.  

The villa is now dedicated to Greek, Roman and esreuscian (sp) art and history.  Which is....glorious since I love  Greek and Roman history and art.  

The center on the hill is wonderful but it's so much to see!!!!

[Baltimore Betty]

I am confused by Mia and her mother situation, it seemed that we were watching Mia and her mother see each other for the first time in years, then Mia and G are packing to go on the group trip and she says that this will be the first time she is leaving her kids with her mother for an extended length of time. So which is it? Seems like Mia has left her kids with Mom before even though Mia said her mother only watches the sister's kids, obviously Mia's kids know their grandmother otherwise it would be like leaving her kids with a stranger, Mother Mia must know the kids, their routine, and the kids know her.

The car salesman calling G to discuss the G Wagon that is being ordered for her, ($250,000 for that car) in front of all the others was a weak attempt to say how much money they have and that never looks good, you know the bigger they are, the harder they fall. If they are getting one I am sure they are leasing thru the business or for all we know that was a friend pretending to be a car salesman.

I still do not believe they own that condo at the Ritz, not one personal item anywhere, when you have kids, you have stuff and they have none of it, not even a picture on the very blank walls.

Also, her floral blouse looked real cheap, like Amazon cheap.  I buy clothes from Amazon so don't get pissy about that assessment, she is sooo wealthy and has rich friends so she says she shows up in an ill fitting, poorly tailored polyester shirt, pffft.

Why did Mia get so excited to see Karen and made her spin around to show off the lumpy pink sweat suit (Amazon?) as she came in the door?

[sugarbaker design]

20 hours ago, drivethroo said:

But, if Andy is so displeased by her, he needs to fire Candiace

If Andy is displeased by toxic behavior, he should take a deep look in the mirror.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I am confused by Mia and her mother situation, it seemed that we were watching Mia and her mother see each other for the first time in years, then Mia and G are packing to go on the group trip and she says that this will be the first time she is leaving her kids with her mother for an extended length of time. So which is it? Seems like Mia has left her kids with Mom before even though Mia said her mother only watches the sister's kids, obviously Mia's kids know their grandmother otherwise it would be like leaving her kids with a stranger, Mother Mia must know the kids, their routine, and the kids know her.

The car salesman calling G to discuss the G Wagon that is being ordered for her, ($250,000 for that car) in front of all the others was a weak attempt to say how much money they have and that never looks good, you know the bigger they are, the harder they fall. If they are getting one I am sure they are leasing thru the business or for all we know that was a friend pretending to be a car salesman.

I still do not believe they own that condo at the Ritz, not one personal item anywhere, when you have kids, you have stuff and they have none of it, not even a picture on the very blank walls.

Also, her floral blouse looked real cheap, like Amazon cheap.  I buy clothes from Amazon so don't get pissy about that assessment, she is sooo wealthy and has rich friends so she says she shows up in an ill fitting, poorly tailored polyester shirt, pffft.

Why did Mia get so excited to see Karen and made her spin around to show off the lumpy pink sweat suit (Amazon?) as she came in the door?

It feels like these women who marry older men never get respect from their husbands. I guess they are only with them for the money in the first place.

I think of the way Jim would talk to Alexa like she was dirt in Orange County.

It seemed that G and Mia had a good relationship until I saw the way he behaved in this episode.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Way way way back in the day they only had the Getty villa in Malibu and the collection was so massive they would rotate it like every 6 months IIRC.  

I was there in the early 80's, yikes that was decades ago...that was the guy I let get away, le sigh.

[Ss55]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Also, her floral blouse looked real cheap, like Amazon cheap.  I buy clothes from Amazon so don't get pissy about that assessment, she is sooo wealthy and has rich friends so she says she shows up in an ill fitting, poorly tailored polyester shirt, pffft.

Why did Mia get so excited to see Karen and made her spin around to show off the lumpy pink sweat suit (Amazon?) as she came in the door?

LMAO - I 100% agree.

[Rahul]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:02 PM, nb360 said:

Candance is right: Mia's need therapy. And Candance should know as the daughter of a psychologist.

😎

Candiace's mother is NOT a psychologist. She is a social worker who seems to hardly work, which is probably a good thing. 

I was struck by how many times Mia tried to recuse herself from fighting with Candiace, who kept turning up to an 11 when it was unwarranted. Mia may be messy but she isn't "low budget" like Candiace, who is squarely so because of her vile mouth. She brings this entire franchise down.

That line about starting but not finishing? Girl really wants to get dragged on national TV all over again.

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

It feels like these women who marry older men never get respect from their husbands. I guess they are only with them for the money in the first place.

IMO neither Michael nor G were looking for "respectable women" for wives.  They were looking for a young plaything they could parade around on their arms to show off to their equally old friends so they could seem like "The Man". These young playthings would let them whatever they want as long as they got some material things.  G & Michael know what's up with Mia and Ashley...they are both still in survivor mode and they're not trying to go back to where they came from.

The DMV has an extremely large concentration of college educated and/or accomplished people with MBAs and advanced degrees who actually ARE bosses. Neither Michael or G wanted a real "boss" though.  Plus older women aren't trying to be nursemaids and they've seen all the tricks and games these old men try to play.  So they marry these young girls and "put them in charge" of something and let them think they are a "boss" and the young woman gets to prance around calling herself a boss when in reality all they are really in charge of is arranging photo shoots for the food and picking out lobby furniture.

And they're happy until they find out they're really not the "boss" of anything.  Ashley found that out when a) Michael "wouldn't let" her have international on her phone (as if she were a child) b) when he fired her from their his restaurant.  How are you a "boss" but you get fired on your day off? c) when he snatched Sheila's house* from her and put Ashley out on the streets with nothing but the clothes on her back and the keys to her Porsche?

Ever since then Ashley has towed the line and outside of his spectacle at Robyn's engagement party has not raised her voice to him during filming not one time.

Ashley & Michael know what time it is and if Mia & G continue on this show Mia is going to end up finding out what time it is to.

I will say for Mia & G, if she really is 36 and they've been married for 8 years, G married her when she was in her late 20s.  He's not the father of her oldest son, who is 12 so Mia met G in her mid 20s and married him a year or so later. 

I don't find that as scummy as Michael and Ashley.  They've been together since Ashley was in her early 20s (like 22 years old) and he was in his 50s.  That, to me, is more disgusting than Mia & G because Ashley was a young girl fresh out of childhood & school. She hadn't even had a chance to live life yet.

I know when I was 22, if a dude in his 50s tried to step to me, my parents would've been like Naw.  I have no doubt Sheila encouraged Ashley to get down and do whatever she needed to do to hook this old man so they could all come up. 

Even though I come down on Ashley, I actually like her and I think she would do wonderful in sales.  I want her to win and I want her to have an independent source of income so she is not so dependent upon Michael.  You know her BRAVO check is probably going towards keeping a roof over Sheila & her little sister's head and food in their bellies.

I've mentioned this before, but even though there's a large age gap between Ray and Karen, I heard Karen had her own business when she married Ray but sold it to tend to Ray and his needs.  She spent Ray's money but kept hers in the bank and I heard it was that money she had to use to help bail Ray out with his taxes.  If that's true, she wasn't dependent upon Ray for her survival.  I think Karen is a social climber but I don't think Karen was quite in the same position as Ashley or Mia.

44 minutes ago, Rahul said:

She brings this entire franchise down.

No one brought this franchise down lower than Monique, who threatened to fight Robyn on the streets, who threatened to fight Candiace while she was pregnant, who kept instigating fights with Candiace (who walked away every time) and who savagely attacked Candiace in a barn, threatened to kill her and spearheaded a year long+ smear campaign

*In a rare defense of Michael, he had every right to put Sheila out of the house when there was a grown man who was laying around in the house who could've worked but was content to live off of Michael.  No ma'am.  No sir.  Stick to the tents under 270 that you're used to.

Edited October 5, 2021 by drivethroo

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

*In a rare defense of Michael, he had every right to put Sheila out of the house when there was a grown man who was laying around in the house who could've worked but was content to live off of Michael.  No ma'am.  No sir.  Stick to the tents under 270 that you're used to.

I think when I almost fell out when Ashley's mother claimed that Michael complimented her on being such a good mother when raising Ashley when we all know what an unstable childhood Ashley had, with her mother constantly picking men over her.

She also rather her daughter marry a dirty old man than ask her significant other for support.

Mia was being messy at the video shoot but I think part of Candiace's anger is actually toward Dorothy for stirring the pot up in the first place. 

 

[Rambunctiouscurls]

4 hours ago, Rahul said:

Candiace's mother is NOT a psychologist. She is a social worker who seems to hardly work, which is probably a good thing. 

I was struck by how many times Mia tried to recuse herself from fighting with Candiace, who kept turning up to an 11 when it was unwarranted. Mia may be messy but she isn't "low budget" like Candiace, who is squarely so because of her vile mouth. She brings this entire franchise down.

That line about starting but not finishing? Girl really wants to get dragged on national TV all over again.

I stand corrected as well re Dot’s occupation. 
 

The reason why some of us get more triggered by Candiace than the others who may be equally messy is that Candiace escalates while her cast mates may even de escalate at certain points except for Monique last season. She had a vendetta and I am glad she is gone. 
 

For instance, when Mia walked into the room, it seemed like she was open to reconciliation but Candiace just wouldn’t stop with the low blows.

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Rambunctiouscurls

[Vanderboom]

I hope the rumors are wrong; I like Wendy and Eddie as a couple. They were so fun when they first got to the house. Positive Wendy (not tries-too-hard Zen Wen) is the best Wendy.

Candiace has come a long way since her first season, but she still has a lot of work to do on herself. Why give Mia that kind of power? It looks like she still loses control of herself next week.

Mia seems like Gizelle in that she kinda hazes and picks at people before she befriends them. She has antagonized Karen, Wendy, Gizelle/Robyn, and now Candiace. She might have too much in common with Ashley to fight with her, but who knows? She's incredibly messy, but I like that she doesn't lose her mind over petty insults.