S04.E01: Life And Death

[Brian Cronin]

1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

I would really like to see an affectionate, platonic, supportive professional relationship between Chen and Bradford.   Maybe even friendship.  Like real life, in any occupation, where a trainee and a mentor pass beyond the training phase and into the mutual respect and workday life phase.  I've seen this and experienced this over and over in my real life--which is engineering, not law enforcement.  But a job is a job.

The TV and movie trope is men and women can't have a professional and  platonic yet friendly relationship on the job.  Somewhere, with someone, there must be sexual tension.  In real life.....not so much 

Ab-so-LUTE-ley. They can have a very rewarding relationship without having to be in a romantic relationship. 

[CooperTV]

2 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

The TV and movie trope is men and women can't have a professional and  platonic yet friendly relationship on the job.  Somewhere, with someone, there must be sexual tension.  In real life.....not so much 

The Rookie has several male/female friendship couples in different combinations, many romantic pairings and romantic teasing etc. We already had a romance on the job with Nolan and Chen that blew up in their faces, by the way, to appease viewers who don't enjoy that sort of stuff.

I also dislike the argument that tries to project "real life" circumstances on tv shows. TV shows (especially action/adventure cop shows, especially this show) are made for entertainment. Actual real life is often "unrealistic" and messy, and people still do people stuff: they fall in love, date, marry, divorce and remarry, sometimes all at the same place of work.

[Sweet Tooth]

I know they said they had no choice but to kill off Jackson, but I don't buy that. This whole thing seems weird. If it was his choice, you'd think he'd want to get ahead of the story and have a tearful goodbye. Thank his coworkers and the show for giving him such a wonderful role. But that didn't happen. I'm sensing a lot of dramarama is going to be unearthed.

I hate to break it to you all, but whenever a show telegraphs in an obvious and heavy-handed way that there's a high level of unresolved sexual tension, they don't revert to being friends or wind up in a brother/sister relationship. 

No show is going to take this long to set something up and then just have the two people be buddies. 

Whether you're a Chen/Brad fan or not, it's going to happen, so you need to brace yourselves.

 

[madmax]

10 hours ago, Netfoot said:

For me the issue is that if they go there with Chen/Bradford, will it be permanent? Because if it comes to an end, it will have a detrimental effect on the on-going dynamic of the characters in the series. I definitely don't ant them shipping these two, if it will spoil the show.

 

I doubt this show will last another season, so they're going to go full on Chen/Bradford.  

So Chen then will have basically screwed over her best friend, who is currently dating Bradford, or is that over?

[paigow]

Her friend moved to NYC for a better job

[CooperTV]

13 minutes ago, madmax said:

So Chen then will have basically screwed over her best friend, who is currently dating Bradford, or is that over?

I don't think even the writers know the answer to this question.

[lawrbk]

3 hours ago, CooperTV said:

I don't think even the writers know the answer to this question.

I kind of wish they’d bring Sara Rue’s character back for Bradford. She was the dispatcher (?) with a crush on him.

[Sweet Tooth]

The relationship between Bradford and Chen's friend has been long over.

She got a job in NY and wanted Bradford to join her, but there was no way that was happening, so they ended it. 

The relationship between Bradford and Chen has been a slow simmer. Chen didn't immediately make a move on Bradford after her friend left. It's something that appears to be happening naturally, and she's clearly freaking out about the whole thing. She doesn't seem to consciously want it to happen, because she knows all of the pitfalls that go along with it, and after seeing Bradford's reaction, he seems to be in the same boat.

These are two people who are trying to fight an attraction.

Chen is an adult. She had a relationship with Nolan, and now they're friends without any awkwardness. Bradford is no longer her C.O., so that problem is out of the way.

There's only one of two ways this goes. Either they get together and remain together, or there will be a messy breakup, followed by some animosity, and then eventually reaching a place where they can work together in peace. This is not real life. Both of them have to remain on the show, so there will be a resolution should this all not work out, just like what happened with Nolan.

I'm curious what will happen with Chen's living situation now. 

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, Sweet Tooth said:

The relationship between Bradford and Chen's friend has been long over.

She got a job in NY and wanted Bradford to join her, but there was no way that was happening, so they ended it. 

The relationship between Bradford and Chen has been a slow simmer. Chen didn't immediately make a move on Bradford after her friend left. It's something that appears to be happening naturally, and she's clearly freaking out about the whole thing. She doesn't seem to consciously want it to happen, because she knows all of the pitfalls that go along with it, and after seeing Bradford's reaction, he seems to be in the same boat.

These are two people who are trying to fight an attraction.

Chen is an adult. She had a relationship with Nolan, and now they're friends without any awkwardness. Bradford is no longer her C.O., so that problem is out of the way.

There's only one of two ways this goes. Either they get together and remain together, or there will be a messy breakup, followed by some animosity, and then eventually reaching a place where they can work together in peace. This is not real life. Both of them have to remain on the show, so there will be a resolution should this all not work out, just like what happened with Nolan.

I'm curious what will happen with Chen's living situation now. 

Remember they had Bradford qualified for promotion to Sergeant which he set aside to finish off with his latest and possibly last Boot. With Jackson gone what is Detective Harper's role along with Bradford's?

I am guessing that Harper gives up her golden ticket as we have a new mother and detective without a partner. Bradford becomes watch commander and Sergeant Grey moves up since they haven't really replaced the Mid Wilshire division commander. Only having the "Night General" go bad on us.

[Sweet Tooth]

2 minutes ago, Raja said:

Remember they had Bradford qualified for promotion to Sergeant which he set aside to finish off with his latest and possibly last Boot. With Jackson gone what is Detective Harper's role along with Bradford's?

I am guessing that Harper gives up her golden ticket as we have a new mother and detective without a partner. Bradford becomes watch commander and Sergeant Grey moves up since they haven't really replaced the Mid Wilshire division commander. Only having the "Night General" go bad on us.

This is an interesting and plausible theory. I'll be curious where they go, since even Nolan is no longer a rookie. 

Chen is also without a partner now, so things will definitely be shaken up.

[shapeshifter]

I've been assuming that when Nolan was no longer a "Rookie," the show would have him training a "Rookie," especially since Nolan said he'd like to train.
So will we get a new crop of rookies next week or so?

[Raja]

Just now, shapeshifter said:

I've been assuming that when Nolan was no longer a "Rookie," the show would have him training a "Rookie," especially since Nolan said he'd like to train.
So will we get a new crop of rookies next week or so?

In the first season they played up the waiting periods to qualify such assignments with Bishop looking for an early "tap" to become a Detective. I wonder if they do another time skip to get us past the obvious COVID masking and other countermeasures, like Magnum PI did, which would then also allow Nolan and Chen to qualify for P3 and other assignments like being a T.O.

[TAG42481]

The word I would use to describe this episode is "gratuitous".  Jackson's death was gratuitous (but from what I read, necessary if the actor really did decide he didn't want to return) and the cops going full attack squad in a foreign country was gratuitous.  I mean, the episode was alright, but that's not the show I signed up for.  Hopefully we'll get back to normal next week.

[Brian Cronin]

The Chen/Bradford stuff stands out because they made a whole big deal about how Chen had to break up with Nolan because she would be forever tainted if she dated another cop and she didn't want that, so to then have her date her former supervisor doesn't make ANY sense. Like, if the show had not made it a specific plot point that Chen would rather break up with a boyfriend that she loved than to tarnish her career by dating another cop, then it would have been totally fine for her to then date Bradford. But they did, so having them date would be absurd, and you can see that Hawley even knows that based on how he talks about Chen/Bradford.

And yet...it's obviously GOING to happen, as you don't write "We're about to fuck...oh, wait, a call came in" scenes with characters who are not going to eventually get together. So it's bizarre how the show wrote themselves into this odd situation. 

[paigow]

Sara Rue had a crush on Alan Tudyk - a crime scene cleaner - not Bradford.

[HurricaneVal]

2 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

I'm curious what will happen with Chen's living situation now.

I had completely forgotten that Chen lived with West.  When Sgt. Grey said something like "I can understand why you don't want to go home right now" I didn't think anything other than Chen was still shook up about her co-worker and friend's violent death, and worried about her kidnapped and pregnant former TO.  Then at the end of the episode when they showed her at the apartment, looking into West's room, that's when I remembered they were roommates.

[Lunula]

So why doesn’t Wesley now go straight to the FBI/CIA and go double agent against that guy? BTW - did we know that guy? It was all just so damned convenient.

The entire episode was too convenient and, well, stupid. The Rookie has always been about silly situations… but silly, over-the-top stories don’t mix well (for me) with the seriousness of a major character’s death and the kidnapping of a pregnant police detective.

Does anyone else think Jackson’s death could’ve been done a lot better? He gets shot in the back and shoved in a car - was the car left there? Did they find it later? The whole time we were like, “Go look for him and make sure he’s dead!” But all we get is a casual mention of him at the coroner’s office. I know the actor didn’t return, but wouldn’t it have been a better send off to have him rush out in pursuit and get shot? Could’ve used grainy film, but why have him shoved in a trunk and that’s it? Just weird.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Lunula
Spelling

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Sweet Tooth said:

since even Nolan is no longer a rookie. Chen is also without a partner now

Looks like they are partners next week... eventually, one of them will end up with Smitty in the community station...

[Sweet Tooth]

8 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

The Chen/Bradford stuff stands out because they made a whole big deal about how Chen had to break up with Nolan because she would be forever tainted if she dated another cop and she didn't want that, so to then have her date her former supervisor doesn't make ANY sense. Like, if the show had not made it a specific plot point that Chen would rather break up with a boyfriend that she loved than to tarnish her career by dating another cop, then it would have been totally fine for her to then date Bradford. But they did, so having them date would be absurd, and you can see that Hawley even knows that based on how he talks about Chen/Bradford.

And yet...it's obviously GOING to happen, as you don't write "We're about to fuck...oh, wait, a call came in" scenes with characters who are not going to eventually get together. So it's bizarre how the show wrote themselves into this odd situation. 

I do remember this, and it's a good point. But things were a lot different for her back then. She was a rookie and trying to show she had the chops.

Now she's proven herself, so it's a bit different.

Also, she's not pursuing a relationship with Bradford. She's not making a conscious choice to get involved with him. They're both fighting it but realize at the same time that it's happening, and it's a really tough spot to be in. Neither of them WANTS this to happen, as they're both aware of the numerous complications, yet it is happening.

I think that the show likes how messy this could get and would be able to build a lot of stories around it, which is good for the show.

6 hours ago, paigow said:

Looks like they are partners next week... eventually, one of them will end up with Smitty in the community station...

This makes sense. I'm wondering if they did this hasty, "Yeah, you're no longer a rookie," so they could partner him with Chen. 

6 hours ago, Lunula said:

Does anyone else think Jackson’s death could’ve been done a lot better? He gets shot in the back and shoved in a car - was the car left there? Did they find it later? The whole time we were like, “Go look for him and make sure he’s dead!” But all we get is a casual mention of him at the coroner’s office. I know the actor didn’t return, but wouldn’t it have been a better send off to have him rush out in pursuit and get shot? Could’ve used grainy film, but why have him shoved in a trunk and that’s it? Just weird.

They ran into a problem when the actor wouldn't come back and film the scene, so they used a stand-in.  This was the best they could do. Only see him from the back from far away. 

I mean, there were no plans to kill the character off, and he wouldn't return, so this was the outcome.

[CooperTV]

13 hours ago, lawrbk said:

I kind of wish they’d bring Sara Rue’s character back for Bradford. She was the dispatcher (?) with a crush on him.

I distinctly remember Tim used his charms on her (and a bottle of wine) to try and win the precinct competition.

[femmefan1946]

Titus Makin was having problems with playing a police officer post -George Floyd. And the writers seem to have taken his point of view (and that of many others not involved with the show) into account in Season Three.

His departure seems to have been much friendlier than that of Afton Williamson.

[bros402]

On 9/29/2021 at 6:15 PM, Lunula said:

Does anyone else think Jackson’s death could’ve been done a lot better? He gets shot in the back and shoved in a car - was the car left there? Did they find it later? The whole time we were like, “Go look for him and make sure he’s dead!” But all we get is a casual mention of him at the coroner’s office. I know the actor didn’t return, but wouldn’t it have been a better send off to have him rush out in pursuit and get shot? Could’ve used grainy film, but why have him shoved in a trunk and that’s it? Just weird.

Bare minimum they could've found a burnt wreckage of a car and identified it as Jackson, maybe have him clutching some hair or something in his hand that had DNA of his killer

[Orbert]

I actually kinda like how they did Jackson's death.  We saw them going to the car, some kind of minor scuffle, then bang! he's shot in the back and shoved into the trunk, still partly conscious.  It was shocking.  My reaction was the same as the officers watching the video, stunned.  And that's what they were going for.

[Clanstarling]

18 minutes ago, Orbert said:

I actually kinda like how they did Jackson's death.  We saw them going to the car, some kind of minor scuffle, then bang! he's shot in the back and shoved into the trunk, still partly conscious.  It was shocking.  My reaction was the same as the officers watching the video, stunned.  And that's what they were going for.

It took me a little while to decide I liked it. It certainly kept up the suspense about Jackson. Your reasons are ones I couldn't articulate to myself but I did have that reaction, but the first reason I decided I liked it is that they sidestepped the "if you don't see the body, they're not dead" trope. Especially since it wasn't blasted all over the media that the actor was no longer with the show.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Clanstarling

[crowceilidh]

I wonder about 3 different actors walking away from 3 very reasonable paying roles.  Seems pretty fishy to me.  

I suspect we'll never know.

[BlakesMomma]

9 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

I wonder about 3 different actors walking away from 3 very reasonable paying roles.  Seems pretty fishy to me.  

I suspect we'll never know.

Is one of the three you're counting Mercedes? Because she has spoken publicly on social media that she was dealing with severe post partum issues and that's why she left the show. She is most definitely still on good terms with the show and cast as she follows and replies often on social media. Titus still follows the cast. And Afton, if you followed her posts on social media, well she just seemed to have some serious long standing personal issues. 

[devilhalo]

So tired of Nolan always being superior to everybody. He is the one who notices the trip wire. He is the one with the best ideas. We get it. He is the main character. He is the LEAD! *yawn

 

[paigow]

52 minutes ago, devilhalo said:

So tired of Nolan always being superior to everybody. He is the one who notices the trip wire. He is the one with the best ideas. We get it. He is the main character. He is the LEAD! *yawn

He will lead each crop of Rookies on foreign soil capture / kill missions. Everyone can be disavowed if anything goes wrong.  

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, paigow said:

He will lead each crop of Rookies on foreign soil capture / kill missions. Everyone can be disavowed if anything goes wrong.  

Well since every drug or warlord's lair has an exhaust port like a Deathstar just waiting to be found by a general contractor in minutes Max will keep Nolan as an asset 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Raja

[threebluestars]

On 9/28/2021 at 10:51 PM, Brian Cronin said:

Ab-so-LUTE-ley. They can have a very rewarding relationship without having to be in a romantic relationship. 

My favourite was Bosco and Yokas on Third Watch. They had a very sibling-like relationship, and it rang so true. They were there for each other in major ways, but also had their own lives. It was one of the few relationships I'd seen on TV that I loved that they didn't pair them together romantically.

[Raja]

49 minutes ago, threebluestars said:

My favourite was Bosco and Yokas on Third Watch. They had a very sibling-like relationship, and it rang so true. They were there for each other in major ways, but also had their own lives. It was one of the few relationships I'd seen on TV that I loved that they didn't pair them together romantically.

However if Bosco were the big brother married parent and Yokas the younger single woman how would it had played in 2001 or now 20 years later?

[Sweet Tooth]

There are many shows where two extremely attractive people develop a buddy/buddy, brother/sister-type relationship. On Walker, Texas Ranger, they gave his adorable female partner a smoking-hot boyfriend she's crazy about and is friends with the gang.  

This is not the pattern they're following here.

Usually if they show at least one person in a solid, loving relationship right off the bat, they won't go there. 

However, once they start with the almost-kissing and ramping up the sexual tension, it usually follows a certain pattern. One or both of them get into a semi-serious relationship. Check. Then something happens to separate them. Check. Dance....dance...dance. Check. And just when everyone can't stand it anymore, they get together.

One of the smoothest transition from buddies to sexual tension to loving relationship I've seen is Kensi/Deeks on NCIS: LA. They have real relationship drama that normal people go through, but you always know they love each other and will work their way through it. I wish more shows would understand you don't have to manufacture drama in a relationship, because it gets exhausting for the viewer. 

I'm hoping if Bradford/Chen happens, it's not the exhausting kind of relationship. We'll see.

[CooperTV]

54 minutes ago, Sweet Tooth said:

I'm hoping if Bradford/Chen happens, it's not the exhausting kind of relationship. We'll see.

The biggest advantage this potential romance has in terms of the writing (that on this show could be quite mediocre) is that they have legitimate reasons not to get together. The drama could be more or less solid, if the writers go there eventually.

Unlike the writers from the show Manifest who manage create melodrama out of thin air to keep their god-forsaken triangle of doom going.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Sweet Tooth said:

Usually if they show at least one person in a solid, loving relationship right off the bat, they won't go there. 

...unless said show kills off half of that devoted couple, which did happen in the premiere season of Chicago Fire (which I have LONG since abandoned), so the woman pining for the guy no longer had competition. (Of course they did get together - and didn't last, either, because the actress later left the show.)

[Sweet Tooth]

55 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

...unless said show kills off half of that devoted couple, which did happen in the premiere season of Chicago Fire (which I have LONG since abandoned), so the woman pining for the guy no longer had competition. (Of course they did get together - and didn't last, either, because the actress later left the show.

I've heard about this show and the utter disaster they made it into, completely ruining characters, etc., which is why I've stayed away, even though it had Jesse Spencer.

SPOILER ALERT FOR NEW AMSTERDAM: 

They killed off the lead guy's wife, but nobody really liked her, and pretty much everyone wanted him with his co-worker, so that worked out. They'd always planned on killing her off from the beginning, which helped. Also that these two had ZERO chemistry. If she'd played his sister, it would have been more believable.

1 hour ago, CooperTV said:

The biggest advantage this potential romance has in terms of the writing (that on this show could be quite mediocre) is that they have legitimate reasons not to get together. The drama could be more or less solid, if the writers go there eventually.

Unlike the writers from the show Manifest who manage create melodrama out of thin air to keep their god-forsaken triangle of doom going.

Manufactured melodrama makes me run from shows. I didn't tune in to watch a soap opera.

They definitely have legit reasons not to get together, and the drama would be real. I mean, though Tim has come a loooong way, he still has the ex-wife baggage that who knows how much it messed him up in terms of a relationship. 

They both have some baggage, above and beyond the whole dating your superior thing. 

It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out.

[eel21788]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:25 PM, Sweet Tooth said:

I'm curious what will happen with Chen's living situation now. 

Her puppy will move in with her, and she'll become even more codependent than she already is.

[Sweet Tooth]

10 hours ago, eel21788 said:

Her puppy will move in with her, and she'll become even more codependent than she already is.

It's like you're psychic...

[EtheltoTillie]

What a horrible episode!

They kill off West.  They have an insane plot about international drug cartels and crazy off book rescue scheme.  Attempted baby stealing from the  womb?  This is not what I want on this show, albeit two seasons late.  (I've been binging from the beginning since about a month ago.)  I barely paid attention during the rescue op.  I understand there may have been shenanigans involving Wesley?  Oh well. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[Avabelle]

Ok can’t believe I’m already on season 4. Some observations:

I’ll miss West. I know they hadn’t done much with him but I liked him and his relationships with Lucie and Lopez in particular. If the actor didn’t want to come back to film an exit I think they did the best they could.

Lucy is starting to annoy me. I feel like some episodes she’s badass but then other episodes it’s just all about her love life. She went from grieving Jackson to making googly eyes at Tim so quickly and although I like the slow build of the two of them it just seemed unnecessary.

In contrast I liked the last scene with Lopez talking to Jackson’s grave. It seemed more authentic. As did the sergeant’s grief. 

One final note - that white suit that Wesley wore to meet the cartel was awful. I can’t believe with everything that was going on he found the time to pick - white linen suit to wear.