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Season 23 Live Feeds Discussion

Lady Calypso

By Lady Calypso
in Past Seasons

statsgirl
Message added by statsgirl,

We understand that some hot button topics are coming up this season, such as with the Cookout. Reminder that it's ok to disagree but do NOT break our Be Civil rule. Keep your comments about the show, NOT about the people on this forum. If you can't disagree civilly and without talking about the posters, utilize the Ignore User function or scroll past their posts. And reminder that there is more to this season than the Cookout so if you feel like a conversation is going in circles, feel free to move on to something else. Going forward, unwillingness to adhere to these rules will result in warnings.

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Lady Whistleup

Lady Whistleup

19 minutes ago, blixie said:

I mean I do like him, but listening to him try to talk game is a journey and Tiff/X deserve some kind of prize for managing to understand where he's going and how long it takes him to get there . With yoga blocks.

His HR meetings are endless. I have no idea why the HG's put up with it.

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Callaphera
Callaphera

Tiffany and Xavier, c3/4, around 9:50 PM BBT Tiffany: "I just hope that [clears her throat] I mean, I hope that we're doing the right thing but I don't know if we're playing the game right." Xa

Brian Cronin
Brian Cronin

They're simply not the same thing. Our entire society is built around systemic racism, to the point where no one in, say, the Brigade, actually thought of their group as being "White-only," because th

After7Only
After7Only

I’ve seen multiple excellent and nuanced posts explaining why the CO is not racist.   The only argument I’ve seen that they are racist is that the are all black.    Nothing else…no racist language use

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Lamb18

Lamb18

Azah and Claire on one sofa, someone in a brown hoodie on the other. Xavier walks through wearing one of the bucket hats. I can unmute for a little bit. Xavier's joining this small group. OK, brown hoodie is Alyssa. I unmuted and I hear Whitney wouldn't be his type. They are trying to match up someone with Brent. Someone says Tiffani and Brent, snickers. Alyssa says the person most likely to go with him would be me, but that would be so embarrassing. She says Christian would use Brent's humor. Alyssa says who would be the most shocking with Ky. Alyssa thinks she would. Azah says she could see Whitney and Big D getting it on (I can't). Alyssa says she has deodorant on but she can still smell something.

5 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

His HR meetings are endless. I have no idea why the HG's put up with it.

Nothing else to do. 

I guess they can't go outside.

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himela

himela

47 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

His HR meetings are endless. I have no idea why the HG's put up with it.

I know that Kyland has told them at the start of the game that he has some kind of problem so he needs more time than other people to focus and find the words to express what he feels so I feel empathy for him and I guess so do the houseguests.

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Nashville

Nashville

3 minutes ago, himela said:

I know that Kyland has told them at the start of the game that he has some kind of problem so he needs more time than other people to focus and find the words to express what he feels so I feel empathy for him and I guess so do the houseguests.

And, as has already been mentioned - WTF else they have to do in this House?

——-

Have HNs been dropped with the advent of Jury?

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tableau vivant

tableau vivant

16 hours ago, Callaphera said:

The audience skews pretty heavily towards the white female demographic. Claire is that demo. She's basically the avatar for the audience to project themselves onto. She's fun but not mean. She's vegan but she doesn't pitch a fit about bacon. She's friendly but not showmance-y. She's me. She's the 18 year old who flipped over to watch Love Island a little early. She's the 45 year old mom of 2 who "20 years and a husband ago, that could be me". She's just "normal" and "regular".

 

In other words, she's pretty dull and boring. 

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TimWil

TimWil

I liked it that Tiffany had concerns about how The Cookout’s agenda might be perceived. Xavier’s justifications for it, however, didn’t wash with me at all. In fact I’m no longer rooting for him when I was rooting for him starting on Day 1. Why were Lawon and Swaggy C’s names even brought up, for starters? Both were absolutely horrendous players and figures of ridicule. Hardly shining examples of competent, prize worthy HGs of seasons past.

Come on, there’s an enormous reason Julie hasn’t brought up The Cookout to Christian and the previous evictees. It’s obviously a CBS directive. CBS is no doubt extremely anxious about The Cookout and how it’s playing to viewers. I’ll be very curious as to what Julie has to say about this when the time arrives. I can imagine her feelings are quite torn over it. By the way, I seriously doubt the Tiffany/Xavier conversation will air on CBS. 

Of course representation matters. It’s great that the house is finally as inclusive as it is. It f**king took long enough. But the very term “cookout” is actually a political one, referring to the many decades in which black people have not been invited to “the cookout” in mainstream America. The Cookout has been named after a political term and it, in turn, has a political agenda.

Let’s say there’s the possibility (albeit a remote one) that the Final 2 is Derek X and Derek F (Derek X having chosen him because he’d have a much better chance of winning against him than, say, Tiffany). Doesn’t a possibility exist that Derek F could win the $750,000 by a vote of five to four? The pre-vote jury discussion alone would be fascinating. I like to think that in the jury house The Cookout will be revealed and various decisions as to who should win the big prize would be altered. I’m not so sure about that, though. It would be fascinating TV, of course. 

I’ve got a hill to die on, too, and it’s this one.

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Melina22

Melina22

If Kyland is still on board with the CO, why would he put up Deref? Or is he doing it to mask the CO? 

I'm worried this looks bad for Claire, although she could win the veto or a BB Bucks power I guess, and take herself off. 

Is Kyland hoping to BD someone? (Sorry if it's been discussed. I've tried to read all the posts while getting ready for company, a literal cookout, but probably missed some.) 😁

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vb68

vb68

(edited)
13 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Deref says he won't use veto on himself to save Brit.

I just do not understand this thinking at all. Furthermore, it was way too late  for me to stay up and watch, but I read that Big D told Ky to put him up. Again, the logic escapes me.

13 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Is Kyland hoping to BD someone?

Last I heard, he wanted Alyssa gone. I think? But it could have already changed like 50 times since then.

Edited by vb68
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Lamb18

Lamb18

Derek F says he wants to get Sarah Beth more than Kyland. He wants her head on a bladder. Think he meant platter. He was on to her from the beginning, like he was with Christian and Alyssa's relationship, and Tiffani.

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Ky wants Claire gone to weaken Tiffany. If noms stay the same, Claire will 100% get evicted. And Claire will stay on the block unless herself or Derex wins veto or a power. Or if Tiffany wins veto/a power and decides to drop CO for Claire, but that’s highly unlikely.

But will that really weaken Tiffani? This week will show Claire how much she matters to Tiffani.

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Cherry Cola

Cherry Cola

10 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I think it'll make the show in some form at some point this season. I also think that a particular part of the audience will complain that they don't want to watch a Very Special Episode moment and I can see a lot of parts that they will latch onto in order to try and tear apart the greater message - things like "Well, the BB21 cast didn't do it maliciously, either" along with dictionary definitions of the word malicious or "lol Lawon was years ago, play your own game" because history only matters if your ancestors were blue eyed blonde haired Europeans.

I think those people will still see racism because white people aren't centered and that's a weirdly difficult concept for a lot of people (though I guess it goes back to the Claire/audience stand in thing I brought up earlier - do I get bonus points for connecting two different thoughts by accident?). I think the people who don't see the Cookout as racist (because it's not and I will die on this motherfucking hill, it's a nice hill with a tree for some shade) will find their own bits to trumpet back - where Xavier called it an "almost inherent duty" which is both sad and beautiful and the "In Memoriam" list of black former HGs. I don't think it'll change anything - if anything, I think the average viewer at home may see it and jump on the "that's racist" bandwagon because they're the same ones who says that race has no place in Big Brother and the racial makeup of America should be reflected in the casting if they really want to be fair and it's a social experiment blah blah blah. Because then it'll be shoved down their throats like James shoved the piece of pizza down Audrey's maw when she had her breakdown. And then they can complain - not about black people, they love black people, they have a black friend named Al so they can't be racist but the alliance is racist. Totally different. They posted a black square on their IG back in 2020, isn't that enough?

I don't know if you can tell but I don't think very highly of the larger portion of the audience. Honestly that's probably true of most things I'm a fan of. I think I just love to talk shit about the things I love. You should hear what I say about my favourite hockey team! (Their golf games are great - their hockey games... meh.)

The cookout is racist, not because white people aren't the center, but because they are a group formed by their skin color targeting those of a different skin color. It's as simple as that. If its not ok when white people do it, ( although I haven't heard them say it out loud that it's a skin color thing) then,it's not ok when black people do it. 

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HighQueenEB

HighQueenEB

I think Tiff was 100% sincere with Ky last night in saying she had no problem with Claire going this week.  They both seem to agree that the next 2 to go should be SB and Claire and the order matters not to her.  I'm not sure why he's shifted to wanting to possibly BD Alyssa.  All I got is that Brit is probably safe for at least the next 2 evictions and might even wind up being the last of the non-CO to go. 

I believe the fear amongst the smarter members of the CO is that if they leave SB, Claire and Derex in the house much longer they run the risk of exposing the CO should one of those 3 win HOH and want to nominate some of the other CO members like X, Deref and Azah, because they believe they're in a real alliance with Tiff, Ky and Hannah.  Essentially, they want to get the smarter non-CO players out before they figure out they are toast.  Right now, with all of the CO having a non-CO "plus one", they can sit there and shrug and say "oh, well, there are obvious pairs now, so the HOH is trying to break those up" and try to keep the CO skating under everyone's conscious radar.

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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

24 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

But will that really weaken Tiffani? This week will show Claire how much she matters to Tiffani.

Absolutely it will weaken Tiff. It will also weaken Derex. It’s a great play for Ky really, but it also means he’ll have a harder time convincing CO that SB shouldn’t get evicted next. I can’t imagine Ky letting SB go without a fight.

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Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin

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48 minutes ago, LeDucDiableBleu said:

Not all black people in America descended from slaves, and not all white people in America descended from slave owners.

Not all White people are White supremacists, but all White people benefit from White supremacy and White supremacy and slavery are pretty much directly and inevitably linked to each other.

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LeDucDiableBleu

LeDucDiableBleu

10 minutes ago, Cherry Cola said:

I think they should have a seperate back yard that is always open. So they don't lose their damn minds. Why hasn't bb done this?!

I know right. I liked how in Celebrity BB they had a mini backyard patio type thing with the hot tub. It always seemed to be open. I remember thinking they should have it for regular BB too.

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Melina22

Melina22

9 minutes ago, LeDucDiableBleu said:

I know right. I liked how in Celebrity BB they had a mini backyard patio type thing with the hot tub. It always seemed to be open. I remember thinking they should have it for regular BB too.

BBCan has a small open area, possibly on the roof, with a deck and hot tub. The HGs go out there even when it's snowing. They go out to chat, to smoke, to soak, and sometimes just to be alone. 

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HighQueenEB

HighQueenEB

Look, here is my issue with the Cookout - I understand the need for representation and that black people have had a terrible portrayal and experience on this show, so I get the motivation of these particular HGs in that regard.  But, they are NOT the only POC in the house and we, as feedsters and fans, have criticized BB for years about the lack of representation for Asians and Latinos as well.  So, from my perspective, if you are really interested in representation and in inclusiveness, then your Cookout alliance should include ALL of the POC in the house.  Personally, I'm having a hard time reconciling some of the defenses of the Cookout because I doubt it would be as warmly received by Black America if there were 6 Latinos in the house who formed a Fiesta alliance and left out the 1 black cast member, or if there were 6 Asian-Pacific Islanders in the house who formed a Luau/Lunar New Year alliance and left out the 1 black cast member.  So, what it boils down to, for me, is that it's all well and good to talk about and implement an alliance that is about representation as long as you're the one being represented.  And, no, I'm not bemoaning the fact that the 8 white people in the house this year are getting cut early.  But, if we are talking about how this is a unique opportunity that won't likely come again in the BB house, where does that leave future cast members who are Asian or Latino?  Probably not in as good of a position as the CO members this year.  It just does quite sit right with me that they've been excluded from the CO alliance since the entire justification is representation.

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Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin

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(edited)
51 minutes ago, Cherry Cola said:

The cookout is racist, not because white people aren't the center, but because they are a group formed by their skin color targeting those of a different skin color. It's as simple as that. If its not ok when white people do it, ( although I haven't heard them say it out loud that it's a skin color thing) then,it's not ok when black people do it. 

They're simply not the same thing. Our entire society is built around systemic racism, to the point where no one in, say, the Brigade, actually thought of their group as being "White-only," because they clearly just viewed their group as "normal." Like how a humorous movie about a White family is a comedy and a humorous movie about a Black family is a Black comedy. Clearly, White=normal in our systemically racist society (systemic because whether you're actively trying to be racist or not, it remains racist nonetheless). 

When you perpetuate the power structure of society with a group, it is obviously different than when the subjugated people in society band together in response to that power structure. Hence, Black-only groups are not the same as White-only groups and Female-only groups are not the same as Men-only groups. 

Heck, I'm not even saying you have to LIKE the idea of a Black-only group, just that it clearly is not the same thing as a White-only group. 

Edited by Brian Cronin
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Hanahope

Hanahope

(edited)

I just like to point out that Latino and Asian players have won BB, but no black person has, so there's that difference and perhaps one reason while the CO has formed, to get one black person the win.   And I have no problems with that, given that we haven't even had a black person in the F2 since Danielle Reyes.

And you can say they formed the CO based solely on skin color, which may be the case, but you can also say they formed it based on  common cultural bonds, just like most of the white people alliances.  Prior alliances get formed all the time based on similar backgrounds or cultural bonds, which might mean upper middle class upbringing, or educational background, or sports interest, or gender (haven't we seen a million "bro" alliances?).  And yes, the black people do have some common cultural bonds that do unite them, and we are already seeing some of those bonds fray and may not make it to the end.

 

Edited by Hanahope
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Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin

(edited)
17 minutes ago, HighQueenEB said:

Look, here is my issue with the Cookout - I understand the need for representation and that black people have had a terrible portrayal and experience on this show, so I get the motivation of these particular HGs in that regard.  But, they are NOT the only POC in the house and we, as feedsters and fans, have criticized BB for years about the lack of representation for Asians and Latinos as well.  So, from my perspective, if you are really interested in representation and in inclusiveness, then your Cookout alliance should include ALL of the POC in the house.  Personally, I'm having a hard time reconciling some of the defenses of the Cookout because I doubt it would be as warmly received by Black America if there were 6 Latinos in the house who formed a Fiesta alliance and left out the 1 black cast member, or if there were 6 Asian-Pacific Islanders in the house who formed a Luau/Lunar New Year alliance and left out the 1 black cast member.  So, what it boils down to, for me, is that it's all well and good to talk about and implement an alliance that is about representation as long as you're the one being represented.  And, no, I'm not bemoaning the fact that the 8 white people in the house this year are getting cut early.  But, if we are talking about how this is a unique opportunity that won't likely come again in the BB house, where does that leave future cast members who are Asian or Latino?  Probably not in as good of a position as the CO members this year.  It just does quite sit right with me that they've been excluded from the CO alliance since the entire justification is representation.

I think it's fair to say that the show failed to be diverse enough in its casting, as they probably should not have gone with 6 Black HGs out of 8 minority HGs.

Beyond that, if they had gone 6 Hispanic HGs out of 8 or 6 Asian HGs out of 8 and those groups had banded together, I don't think any other minority would really care, no, although perhaps there'd be a few more thinkpieces on, "Why did they cast 6 Asians out of 8 minority cast members?"

Edited by Brian Cronin
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choclatechip45

choclatechip45

The only thing that failed is someone like Claire is to scared of being called a racist by the fan base if she put up Deref and another black person in the house. It makes for boring gameplay. I don't have an issue with the cookout forming because they have stuff in common. It's not all that dissimilar to last season when Memphis wanted Bay in the committee and Dani said you can't put Bay in an alliance without Day and Nicole ended up in the committee instead. 

I don't really get why Kyland didn't put up Alyssa. X is in the best position in the house and Alyssa is his pawn. It would be super easy to get Claire to flip on Tiffany. 

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Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin

1 minute ago, choclatechip45 said:

I don't really get why Kyland didn't put up Alyssa. X is in the best position in the house and Alyssa is his pawn. It would be super easy to get Claire to flip on Tiffany. 

My guess is that he wants to bro out and thus is choosing to protect X's "person" in the hopes that X will protect his if X wins HOH next week. 

2 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

The only thing that failed is someone like Claire is to scared of being called a racist by the fan base if she put up Deref and another black person in the house.

That hasn't happened, though, right? We haven't had anyone choose not to nominate a Black HG because they were worried about being seen as racist. 

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HighQueenEB

HighQueenEB

2 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

I think it's fair to say that the show failed to be diverse enough in its casting, as they probably should not have gone with 6 Black HGs out of 8 minority HGs.

Beyond that, if they had gone 6 Hispanic HGs out of 8 or 6 Asian HGs out of 8 and those groups had banded together, I don't think any other minority would really care, no.

We'll have to agree to disagree on your second point, but I absolutely agree that it is problematic that CBS in its quest for diversity cast 6 black people out of the 8 minorities.  And I'm not criticizing the fact that they cast 8 minorities at all!  It's just that they can and should do better.  And, honestly, I'm a little surprised that out of the 6 black people they cast none of them are Afro-Caribbean.  

I'm sort of fascinated by the black cast members they DID cast this season. All of them but Ky are from northern US cities.  Azah and Hannah are, I think, 2nd generation from immigrant families.  There is such a rich diversity to the black community in America and part of me feels like this was somehow missed in this cast.  Mind, I like most of them (except Deref - he can go anytime and I'd laugh if the last non-CO member wins HOH at final 7 and Deref winds up being booted because the CO prefers to keep anyone else but him for Final 5).

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HighQueenEB

HighQueenEB

7 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

My guess is that he wants to bro out and thus is choosing to protect X's "person" in the hopes that X will protect his if X wins HOH next week.

Bros gonna bro and skin color is irrelevant to inherent male chauvinism, lol.  If not for the CO being about something bigger, I'd have not been one bit surprised to see Ky, X, Christian, Brent and Travis form the typical DudeBro alliance we get every damn season.

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Maggie Mae

Maggie Mae

9 minutes ago, HighQueenEB said:

Bros gonna bro and skin color is irrelevant to inherent male chauvinism, lol.  If not for the CO being about something bigger, I'd have not been one bit surprised to see Ky, X, Christian, Brent and Travis form the typical DudeBro alliance we get every damn season.

It took me a hot minute to remember who the hell Travis is!!

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statsgirl
Message added by statsgirl,

We understand that some hot button topics are coming up this season, such as with the Cookout. Reminder that it's ok to disagree but do NOT break our Be Civil rule. Keep your comments about the show, NOT about the people on this forum. If you can't disagree civilly and without talking about the posters, utilize the Ignore User function or scroll past their posts. And reminder that there is more to this season than the Cookout so if you feel like a conversation is going in circles, feel free to move on to something else. Going forward, unwillingness to adhere to these rules will result in warnings.

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