S13.E05: How Nude

[Feech]

If Eboni is going to play the race card every time she is in the wrong than it is going to become very tiresome very quickly.

I am really impressed that Luann wasn’t “fragile” and pushed back told her to leave her house. Ramona should have done that to Leah as well.

Eboni doesn’t bring anything to the table. She doesn’t have a big house, a family, a boyfriend or even a real business that could be a storyline like Bethenny. She only brings a gargantuan ego and a sense of entitlement garnished with a perpetual sense of grievance.

Another casting fail like Leah.

[65mickey]

Rinna wasn't the fist one to call out another housewive for being angry. Kyle Richards did this to Brandi at a renunion years ago. At the lunch at LuAnn's house everyone butSonja was angry and screaming.  Good for her she must have refrained from drinking and did not have an outburst. Like other posters have pointed out this argument went off the rails fast over one word "education" being used differently by Eboni and LuAnn. Eboni heard LuAnn's comment about a Catholic education and seemed to take this to mean that LuAnn must be insinuating that being more educated than the rest of them was the reason that LuAnn and Ramona did not like the sex talk. Then Eboni says I am more educated than anyone at this table and LuAnn went ballistic and assumed Eboni was claiming to be the smartest. Such and unnecessary argument. 

[Mar]

I just watched the opening dinner scene. It was 100% clear to me that every one of those women was playing to the camera and manufacturing forced conversation and drama, which made the whole thing incredibly boring and cringe worthy. And I hate to say it, and it is probably the first time ever, but I agree with Ramona!

[Hangin Out]

2 hours ago, chlban said:

said:

Is Eboni going to turn EVERYTHING into a racial topic?  Admonishing Ramona for her 'white fragility' because she was annoyed at all the shouting and asked everything to be quiet???? WT everliving F???  So Ramona is not allowed to be annoyed by shouting because she's white???? Someone please explain, cuz it doesn't make any sense to me.

I never thought white people as fragile.  I don’t get that at all.  It’s the first time I heard that.  Ramona was pretty patient throughout the whole tabacle.  I would have thrown Leah out right in the beginning, but it’s a show.  I wouldn’t entertain anyone in my home that was nasty and un appreciative being invited in the first place.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Hangin Out

[tvfanatic13]

I haven't read the posts yet, but I am done with Eboni. It is not all about race all the time. Lu said nothing about you being an angry black woman! Too bad because I was all in for the diversity. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

10 minutes ago, Hangin Out said:

I never thought white people as fragile.  I don’t get that at all.  It’s the first time I heard that.  

"White fragility" is a concept that argues that white people often react defensively whenever the subject of race comes up, even if no one is directly accusing them of racism. As it was, I actually don't think Eboni was accurately describing Ramona at that moment (maybe at other points in the conversation but I don't think Ramona asking them to take it down a notch because she was getting a headache is white fragility, exactly) but I do think that Luann's reaction to Eboni saying she was the most educated one at the table was a little bit of white fragility on Lu's part. 

Sutton's reaction to Crystal's comments on RHOBH last week is a good example of "white fragility." Crystal wasn't accusing anyone of being racist, but was instead talking about her own experience. But Sutton made it all about herself and reacted as if Crystal was accusing Sutton of acting in a racist manner. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by eleanorofaquitaine

[RedDelicious]

"Its never really been a stereotype with negative connotations when applied to White women."

And it wasn't a stereotype with negative connotations in this instance either, until Leah shit stirred it into something it wasn't.

[Hiyo]

“And it wasn't a stereotype with negative connotations in this instance either, until Leah shit stirred it into something it wasn't.”

Had nothing to do with Leah. And it did have negative connotations when the only person being described as angry was a Black woman.

[Mar]

Ramona is annoyed because Eboni is running 45 minutes late for lunch and doesn’t seem to care? Oh my God, I agree with Ramona yet again!

[RedDelicious]

"Had nothing to do with Leah. And it did have negative connotations when the only person being described as angry was a Black woman."

If it wasn't Leah who said angry black woman in the conversation after the fact, who said it?

[Hiyo]

“Ramona is annoyed because Eboni is running 45 minutes late for lunch and doesn’t seem to care?”

Ramona might have a better leg to stand on if she herself wasn’t occasionally late for events as well.

“If it wasn't Leah who said angry black woman in the conversation after the fact, who said it?”

Spoiler alert: one doesn’t have to actually say all 3 words to invoke that stereotype, sometimes just saying they are angry is enough. Just ask some of the Black women on this forum.

[Shannah Banana]

5 minutes ago, Hangin Out said:

I never thought white people as fragile.  I don’t get that at all.  It’s the first time I heard that.  

I'd never heard it either, and like all stereotypical labels, it's absurd to me.  I'm pretty sure everyone, regardless of color, is fragile sometimes.  It actually makes me think that Eboni is the fragile one since she's the one throwing it out there, but it's all so stupid, I just can't. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Putting aside the argument between Eboni and Lu, I don't really understand Leah's issue with Ramona. First of all, Leah keeps insisting that she's so sex-positive, but she seems to have no qualms with trying to slut-shame Ramona for all of the sex she is supposedly having. So that's a lot of hypocrisy on her part.

Secondly, while I don't even really believe that Ramona is with a different guy every night, as Leah (likely picking that up from Dorinda's slut-shaminess last year) keeps saying, even if she did - that doesn't mean she needs to talk about it to the whole world. I understand it is reality tv and all, but Ramona isn't required to offer graphic details of her sex life, whatever its status. Having sex and talking about having sex are two different things. 

Years and years ago, I read something that said that basically, the people who talk about having sex the most are the ones least likely to actually be having sex and that strikes me as really, really true when it comes to Leah. She wants people to think that she's this wild-and-crazy, sexually free woman when really, she's not. And it's all coming out with this weird, somewhat envious attitude towards Ramona. 

[Hangin Out]

54 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Maybe I'm weird, and maybe it's old school, or maybe it's the way I was brought up, I was never taught to talk about sex.

Like you know, this dick is big, this dick is small, I like dick, I like to (fuck) and his (cock) is big, and she has a WP, or let's do a WAP, or whatever it's called.

I don't feel comfortable.

Me either.  Different generation.  Actually, my husband turns red when he hears them talking like that.  We are definitely Old School.  I still talk with girlfriends I’ve had for many years, and we never talk about sex.  Then again, it’s all over the tv now, and we can’t control it.  It’s too much and personal.  Leah talks a big game, but I’ll bet she doesn’t get anybody for sex.  I think she’s a bullshitter.  I’ll bet the baby daddy doesn’t even want her sexually.

[chewycandy]

46 minutes ago, Feech said:

If Eboni is going to play the race card every time she is in the wrong than it is going to become very tiresome very quickly.

It gets very tiresome very quickly for POC to deal with what they do on a daily basis. 

18 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

I haven't read the posts yet, but I am done with Eboni. It is not all about race all the time. Lu said nothing about you being an angry black woman! 

She absolutely knew what she was doing with her constant sly smiles when she said “I’m not going to go THERE” and simply saying “angry woman.”

Why does Eboni bringing up her education trigger Luann? Aviva doing it didn’t bring out that type of reaction.

Eboni was right in that no one called Leah angry. Ramona said she was being defensive and aggressive. Sonja said she was crying earlier and to leave her alone. Meanwhile Eboni is going through the same thing with her grandmother and was respectfully trying to get her point across while the others kept interrupting her. It was completely frustrating to see. I respect the hell out of Eboni after seeing that. I have always enjoyed Luann but that? Was extremely telling about her character, plus insecurities. 

[Mar]

The show has been on a downward slide for quite a while, but it is now really just ruined for me.🙁

[Natalie68]

13 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I actually don’t mind Garth. He seems genuine enough. Alfredo seemed like a nice person and I loved his music as well. I was not feeling the male model situation. The whole activity was too focused on his penis for obvious reasons; a) it was exposed and b) it’s RHoNY. There may have actually been a point to the activity if he kept his drape on and they created their own interpretation. I wasn’t digging the 60-second poses. I get that might be from an art school lesson but for the purposes of the scene it felt gratuitous. Especially when he went all fly eagles fly. Eek.

Garth does seem nice.  I am happy he got away from barnacle Lu.  She needs to play a little harder to get.  Unless she isn't.  Her confidence seems so fake.  No one acts that way around a man if they got it going on.

Alfredo, bless.  I am sure he is nice and talented but all I saw was Ernest Goes to Luann's. 

About the model.  I am not a prude, however, I thought the whole thing was a slide from a sexual harrassment training video.  Between his inappropriate, take my towel schtik, to the drooling from the ladies.  It was icky.  There is something really skeevy about these ladies.  It never used to be this bad.  They wear their desperation like a team jersey.

Eboni is not a good mix with this group.  I really like her but she really is too smart and I think this group will leave a mark.  Either cut everyone BUT her and cast around her or cut NY.  I used to want the old cast (until this week) but the old crew cannot be redeemed.  

[RedDelicious]

"Spoiler alert: one doesn’t have to actually say all 3 words to invoke that stereotype, sometimes just saying they are angry is enough. Just ask some of the Black women on this forum."

Luann did not call Eboni a pejorative. She did not invoke a stereotype. She didn't even say "you are angry" like Kyle did on BH when she said Angry Spice. 

The entire argument was like two ships passing in the night. They were arguing about two completely different things and neither one understood the point the other was trying to make. And somehow it devolved into racisim? Come on. 

Once again, it was Eboni who misrepresented the conversation. See my help vs. the help and why are you so angry vs. you're an angry black woman. Luann did not call Eboni an angry black woman and she did not imply that Eboni was acting out a stereotype. Eboni inserted herself to an argument that wasn't about her in the first place. It started with Leah's nonsense and bad behavior.

And the thing that frustrates me the most is we wouldn't even be debating this if Leah wasn't trying to shock everyone, especially Ramona, with her vulgarity, which is what started the argument.

Edited June 2, 2021 by RedDelicious

[Hiyo]

“Luann did not call Eboni a pejorative. She did not invoke a stereotype. She didn't even say "you are angry" like Kyle did on BH when she said Angry Spice.”

She did. She called her an angry woman. Again, she doesn’t need to say all 3 words...

[chewycandy]

Plus think about when Sonja threw Alex out of her house and Luann agreed with that decision. It was because they saw Alex as “lower” than them. 

[Feech]

Luann handled it correctly by not being fragile and pushing back at the woke political correctness and racialist buzz words that Eboni is bringing to the table instead of a rich and over the top lifestyle that used to be the hallmark of the Housewives.

This situation is very analogous to sports or awards shows that have hemorrhaged viewers when they made all about the racial grievance industry and not what they were originally about. 
 

Many will stop following this show as well as witness some of the comments here today.

 

[RedDelicious]

"She did. She called her an angry woman. Again, she doesn’t need to say all 3 words..."

But it's okay for Eboni to say the three words when that isn't what was said? I don't agree with that. They were not having the same argument and Luann did not call Eboni and angry black woman whether she used three words or two.

I can't defend Luann against being an asshole with her gaslighting but they were still not having the same argument. Eboni tried to twist it around and make the diverged argument about race and it was not.  I've finished expressing my thoughts on the matter.

Edited June 2, 2021 by RedDelicious

[Shannah Banana]

4 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

About the model.  I am not a prude, however, I thought the whole thing was a slide from a sexual harrassment training video. 

Surprisingly, I wasn't disgusted with the nude model since he wasn't a RiDICKulous or a Bolo swinging their appendage around, which is what I have come to expect with Bravo.  I was just so glad he met Leah's appendage approval or God knows what she would have said to him about his appendage, since she has no filter and doesn't care who she makes feel bad.

[Hiyo]

“But it's okay for Eboni to say the three words when that isn't what was said?”

They imply the same thing. Whether you agree with it or not. Its the same.

[SweetieDarling]

35 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I do think that Luann's reaction to Eboni saying she was the most educated one at the table was a little bit of white fragility on Lu's part. 

I respectfully disagree. I think Luann's reaction to Eboni saying she was the most educated one in the room was a whole lot of ego. Luann has a superiority complex that I don't think has anything to do with race, hers or anyone else's.

Luann was a COUNTESS! no one at that table, even Sonja Tremont Morgan, is better than The Countess! She used her nurse's training to tend to Kristen's split lip, speaks three languages, knows how to address and be addressed by the chauffeur, and has imaginary Italian friends that provide alibis for her! No one will call her uneducated in her own home! How very dare she! 

jmo.

[Mar]

13 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

 

I only saw about 20 minutes at the end of this.  It was awful.

 

I just finished it and I now have a splitting headache and I am exhausted.Why would I want to watch a show that makes me feel this way?

[SweetieDarling]

25 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Alfredo, bless.  I am sure he is nice and talented but all I saw was Ernest Goes to Luann's. 

🤣🤣🤣

[eleanorofaquitaine]

22 minutes ago, chewycandy said:

Eboni was right in that no one called Leah angry. Ramona said she was being defensive and aggressive. Sonja said she was crying earlier and to leave her alone. Meanwhile Eboni is going through the same thing with her grandmother and was respectfully trying to get her point across while the others kept interrupting her. It was completely frustrating to see. I respect the hell out of Eboni after seeing that. I have always enjoyed Luann but that? Was extremely telling about her character, plus insecurities. 

I had the same thought, that it was very indicative of Lu's insecurities.

My feeling re Eboni talking about the "angry black woman" stereotype is that it was similar to what Garcelle said to Kyle last week about understanding how certain stereotypes are different if you are Black vs. if you are white. Luann was very specific that she didn't mention Eboni's race, which is true - but the fact that she said that a couple of times says to me that she is very much aware of the stereotype.  So she's aware that said stereotype is something that a lot of Black women work hard to avoid, and yet get called every time they let their emotions get the better of them.

The thing is, I didn't agree with everything Eboni said - I think it was pointless on her part to try to convince Ramona to not be offended by Leah's comments about sex. Luann was doing fine on that part - but once it got to this whole question of "education" vs. "class," etc., Luann did react with the kind of white fragility Eboni was talking about.

If Luann had just stuck to saying that she was referring to the kind of conservative, parochial Catholic education that Ramona grew up with - not education in general - I would have agreed with her wholesale. But she did become defensive over the idea that Eboni has more education than her and I suspect part of Lu's defensiveness is unconsciously rooted in the idea that a Black woman isn't "supposed" to be more educated than she is. So I thought Eboni was right to point that out, though of course, it is not surprise that as soon as she did, all hell broke loose in terms of the argument. Not justifying Lu's reaction there because IMO she definitely overreacted. But I am not surprised by it, either. 

[Hiyo]

“Luann was a COUNTESS! no one at that table, even Sonja Tremont Morgan, is better than The Countess! She used her nurse's training to tend to Kristen's split lip, speaks three languages, knows how to address and be addressed by the chauffeur, and has imaginary Italian friends that provide alibis for her! No one will call her uneducated in her own home! How very dare she!”

And she can whip up her own Eggs a la Francaise too!

[eleanorofaquitaine]

4 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

I respectfully disagree. I think Luann's reaction to Eboni saying she was the most educated one in the room was a whole lot of ego. Luann has a superiority complex that I don't think has anything to do with race, hers or anyone else's.

I think it is both. I think Lu can be insecure but I also think that there was some unconscious bias at play.  So I do think race played a role. 

[Mar]

13 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I was not feeling the male model situation. The whole activity was too focused on his penis for obvious reasons; a) it was exposed and b) it’s RHoNY. 

I kept wondering how viewers would react if it were a group of men drawing a woman and making crude jokes and only drawing her (to quote Leah) pu##y. It was not even a bit humorous to me. Maybe I’m taking it all too seriously.

[Mar]

13 hours ago, Joan van Snark said:

Is Eboni going to turn EVERYTHING into a racial topic?  Admonishing Ramona for her 'white fragility' because she was annoyed at all the shouting and asked everything to be quiet???? WT everliving F???  So Ramona is not allowed to be annoyed by shouting because she's white???? Someone please explain, cuz it doesn't make any sense to me.

I agree. And in the preview for next week she told Leah that Luanne accused her of being an angry black woman. Luanne simply told her she was angry, which she definitely was, and she is the one who said, “Are you calling me an angry black woman? “If this is the way the season is headed, I am out.

[Natalie68]

4 minutes ago, Mar said:

I kept wondering how viewers would react if it were a group of men drawing a woman and making crude jokes and only drawing her (to quote Leah) pu##y. It was not even a bit humorous to me. Maybe I’m taking it all too seriously.

No you aren't.  It isn't appropriate no matter who is being objectified.  

[Feech]

5 minutes ago, Mar said:

I kept wondering how viewers would react if it were a group of men drawing a woman and making crude jokes and only drawing her (to quote Leah) pu##y. It was not even a bit humorous to me. Maybe I’m taking it all too seriously.

It’s a good thing he didn’t have an angry penis.

Or a fragile one.

Just shows that to get along with this group sometimes you just have to be a dick.

[MaggieG]

On a shallow note, I thought Heather looked nice. The jacket/jeans/sneakers combo was cute and casual. Sonja looked nice too, the blue was a nice color on her. Leah as usual looked ridiculous with her outfit and shoes.

[FancyNancy]

1 hour ago, Feech said:

If Eboni is going to play the race card every time she is in the wrong than it is going to become very tiresome very quickly.

I am really impressed that Luann wasn’t “fragile” and pushed back told her to leave her house. Ramona should have done that to Leah as well.

Eboni doesn’t bring anything to the table. She doesn’t have a big house, a family, a boyfriend or even a real business that could be a storyline like Bethenny. She only brings a gargantuan ego and a sense of entitlement garnished with a perpetual sense of grievance.

Another casting fail like Leah.

Sonja doesn’t have any of those things either. Oh, she has her ran down townhouse... Almost forgot lol

[RedDelicious]

5 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Leah as usual looked ridiculous with her outfit and shoes.

I have to say I am enjoying the irony of Leah taking on the very aesthetic of the UES women she chastised last season i.e., very blond, rhinoplasty, breast augmentation, botox, dermal fillers and lip filler. 

[RedDelicious]

3 minutes ago, FancyNancy said:

Sonja doesn’t have any of those things either. Oh, she has her ran down townhouse... Almost forgot lol

However Sonja does have a long history of acquaintance with Luann and an even longer friendship with Ramona. I would LOVE to see throwback photos of Sonja and Ramona hitting the clubs in their single days before they got married. 

[Hangin Out]

35 minutes ago, Shannah Banana said:

Surprisingly, I wasn't disgusted with the nude model since he wasn't a RiDICKulous or a Bolo swinging their appendage around, which is what I have come to expect with Bravo.  I was just so glad he met Leah's appendage approval or God knows what she would have said to him about his appendage, since she has no filter and doesn't care who she makes feel bad.

I don’t think we all needed the nude male model as we’ve seen one or two or one hundred before.  I’ve only seen one in my life and that’s enough.  Not bragging by all means .. maybe regretting I wasn’t more of a slut.  Did I miss anything?

[65mickey]

Can someone please tell us exactly what LuAnn said to Eboni? Did she say "you are angry" or "you are an angry woman."  or did she say why are you angry?  I am sorry but I cannot go back and watch this awful show. 

[Mar]

6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Watching that scene back, almost all were speaking with raised voices. Ramona even became frustrated, stood up and shouted. Leah was yelling when she left. The educated LuAnn at one point started shouting. Yet, the one person being called out as angry was Eboni. Are

Luanne was in a conversation with Eboni and was sitting next to her. Eboni’s and Luanne’s anger was directed at each other. Luanne was not directly involved with the other women who were shouting. Hence Luanne calling Eboni angry.

[janiema]

The career of the highly educated Eboni has consistently trended downward. After her good education she became a lawyer doing substantive work. However, she chose celebrity over substance to become a opinionated talking head. (I include all talking heads in this category). Now in a further slide down she has become a Real Housewife who will probably never be taken seriously again. No wonder she is angry.

[FancyNancy]

1 hour ago, Mar said:

Ramona is annoyed because Eboni is running 45 minutes late for lunch and doesn’t seem to care? Oh my God, I agree with Ramona yet again!

I thought the screen said they got to LuAnn’s 12 minutes after Ramona and crew arrived?

[Mr. Miner]

"How dare you! come into my house and call me uneducated".

FUCK YOU LUANN!

If Eboni is expecting an apology, we all know that is something Luann is not familiar with. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Mr. Miner

[Feech]

10 minutes ago, FancyNancy said:

Sonja doesn’t have any of those things either. Oh, she has her ran down townhouse... Almost forgot lol

They had a bunch of activities at Sonja’s townhouse over the years including this season. They can’t have an event at Eboni or Leah’s shoeboxes.

Plus we have learned a lot about Sonja’s various business ventures and have even got a glimpse at Leah’s. Will Eboni be willing to share what she does? I know she claims to have practiced law since she was in kindergarten. Was she a defense lawyer? A prosecutor? A judge? Did she do real estate closings or wills? Or was she just a token on Fox News that checked a couple of boxes on your diversity scorecard? 

Plus Fox News was notorious for sexual harassment during the time she was employed there. Did she experience it? Why did she leave? Lot’s of legitimate questions that we know will not be asked.

[mjstrick]

Wow.   So much to unpack here and I have too much anxiety after watching that to do it right now.  But I do have a question.  I am in no way making excuses for Leah, because I can't find a single redeemable thing about her, but when was this filmed?  Does anyone know?  I ignore most of her scenes so I don't know if she's mentioned whether her grandmother was in the hospital or a nursing home or at home.  If it was one of the former,  she maybe couldn't have seen her in person.  My mom had surgery last March and died alone in July in a long term care facility.   I got to see her once.    Again, not making excuses, just wondering.  I lost my mind for those months and even still a bit.  But I am not a complete whacko like Leah under normal circumstances.   

[FancyNancy]

1 hour ago, Hiyo said:

Spoiler alert: one doesn’t have to actually say all 3 words to invoke that stereotype, sometimes just saying they are angry is enough. Just ask some of the Black women on this forum.

Chile....

[janiema]

1 hour ago, Mar said:

Ramona is annoyed because Eboni is running 45 minutes late for lunch and doesn’t seem to care? Oh my God, I agree with Ramona yet again!

I think they others should just start without latecomers no matter sho they are. Let the latecomers suffer. Take the power away from them.

[Mar]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

. I just disagree with Luann saying that this entire thing boils down to education. I just think it boils down to personal preference. There are uneducated people who don't like sex talk and there are educated people who do. Just as there are educated people who like sex talk and there are uneducated people who do. 

I don’t think she was referring to a high level of education, but rather to the type of “moral education” that she and Ramona received during a specific time period.

[Mr. Miner]

Some people run on IPT. (Inconsiderate People Time)