S10.E07: Episode 7

[Daff]

16 hours ago, Blackie said:

when Fred had the basket of zucchinis

It’s even funnier- he carries them in, telling Violet they’re “corvettes” and I ran it back just to see if the cc made a mistake. No, he did call them that. In Britain, I believe zucchini and summer squash are called courgettes. Based upon Violet’s reaction to their appearance, she’d never seen them before. What can she possibly think of cucumbers, that are an absolute staple there???

[Daff]

4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Did they even address that? 

Yes. Younger sister wasn’t ready to conceive when first married, but when she and her husband decided to try, nothing happened (for YEARS, I found that a bit much in the dialogue).  Her older sister unexpectedly turned up pregnant at 42, with grown children and a husband who probably didn’t expect anymore kids. The two women decided that the younger one would adopt and raise the baby as her own. 

[libgirl2]

21 minutes ago, Daff said:

Yes. Younger sister wasn’t ready to conceive when first married, but when she and her husband decided to try, nothing happened (for YEARS, I found that a bit much in the dialogue).  Her older sister unexpectedly turned up pregnant at 42, with grown children and a husband who probably didn’t expect anymore kids. The two women decided that the younger one would adopt and raise the baby as her own. 

Thank you

[EllaWycliffe]

4 hours ago, susannah said:

I believe they did address that, and acknowledge that, when Reggie's mother died and the Buckles took him in. He nearly set the place on fire when he tried to cook something and filled the place with gas. He tried to go back to his home, and was getting harassed by some jerks.

I agree but also disagree and here's why. Yes, the episode that introduced Reggie showed him struggling and frankly being a difficult handful to where the Buckles *couldn't* keep him at their home.

BUT since that episode, Reggie comes by for lengthy visits where there's never any real problems and Reggie is basically a source of joy and amusement and helps Fred get up to antics with nary a problem. (I do recall one episode where he was stealing cake to feed some sailor who needed medical help but thats about it for Reggie being a problem)

4 hours ago, susannah said:

No one has said that "love solves everything," ever.

Agreed but it was pretty strongly implied that love was much more important than any practical concerns concerning the child. The potential adoptive mother was kind of villainized for not wanting a special needs child, for example, and while Fred's talk of learning to love more was lovely (and the actor portrayed it so well, I don't think he gets enough credit for his contribution to this show) it again ignored the really hard things that come with a child with special needs. 

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I agree but also disagree and here's why. Yes, the episode that introduced Reggie showed him struggling and frankly being a difficult handful to where the Buckles *couldn't* keep him at their home.

BUT since that episode, Reggie comes by for lengthy visits where there's never any real problems and Reggie is basically a source of joy and amusement and helps Fred get up to antics with nary a problem. (I do recall one episode where he was stealing cake to feed some sailor who needed medical help but thats about it for Reggie being a problem)

Agreed but it was pretty strongly implied that love was much more important than any practical concerns concerning the child. The potential adoptive mother was kind of villainized for not wanting a special needs child, for example, and while Fred's talk of learning to love more was lovely (and the actor portrayed it so well, I don't think he gets enough credit for his contribution to this show) it again ignored the really hard things that come with a child with special needs. 

Yes, they could have brought up more of the challenges. It would be nice if we could revisit the family at another point as we did with baby Susan. 

[MissLucas]

I agree that the show has occasionally a tendency to sugar-coat things. Reggie is high-functioning and they found him a home that is almost painfully perfect. I actually wonder if such a place did really exist at the time and if it did how Fred and Violet can afford it.

Since the show is very good at highlighting so much about social issues of the past (sometimes still lingering in the present) I'll accept that the writers are giving us some relief from too much misery from time to time. But the message that things can be resolved by love or that love is enough is a dangerous one because sadly that's not always the case and it puts a lot of pressure on overwhelmed caretakers/parents sometimes preventing them from asking for help with tragic results.

[Driad]

14 hours ago, caitmcg said:

Trixie: And now we’re five monarchs on, and nothing’s changed. No one should have to live in nineteenth-century conditions.

The conditions were actually worse in the 1960s than in the nineteenth century.  At least when the building was new, it presumably was not leaking and moldy.

[Grrarrggh]

Was I the only one who had naughty thoughts when Vi mentioned the shape of the courgettes? 

[dargosmydaddy]

32 minutes ago, Grrarrggh said:

Was I the only one who had naughty thoughts when Vi mentioned the shape of the courgettes? 

Didn't she basically say she found their shape to be inappropriate or words to that effect? I think we were meant to have naughty thoughts...

[Mermaid Under]

Quote

I loved seeing Tim so much of a mature adult now, 

He looked like a tubercular teenager to me, especially during his interaction with Miss Higgins.  Which was kind of appropriate.  He is so thin. 

I though they sugar coated the ongoing relationship between the sisters.  The younger one changes her mind and doesn't want the defective baby, but their relationship is just peaches?  And his 'auntie' brings him a tea cup?  

 

[EllaWycliffe]

2 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

He looked like a tubercular teenager to me, especially during his interaction with Miss Higgins.  Which was kind of appropriate.  He is so thin. 

Honestly, I was a little struck by this as well. His arms looked stick thin. 

[Grrarrggh]

11 minutes ago, Mermaid Under said:

I though they sugar coated the ongoing relationship between the sisters.  The younger one changes her mind and doesn't want the defective baby, but their relationship is just peaches?  And his 'auntie' brings him a tea cup?  

I don't think it was meant to show everything was "just peaches", but that an important step had been taken. 

[Rootbeer]

5 hours ago, Teriacky said:

Oh, thank God! I thought this year was the end of the series!! So happy we’ll have more time with all of the cast!

I seem to remember hearing something about the chances that a geriatric pregnancy (yes, in medical speak 42 is geriatric) has much higher chances of producing a child with Down’s Syndrome. I thought that was if there had been  no previous pregnancies but I could be wrong. 

 My mother had me at 40, and I’m sure there were times (usually when I was doing something stupid) that she wondered  about my mental faculties… 🙄

The risk of having a child with Down Syndrome are related to the mother's age at delivery and start to increase rapidly after age 35.  It doesn't matter how many kids she's had before, it is purely based on maternal age at delivery.  At age 32, the risk is 1 in 750 at birth.  At 42, it rises to 1 in 65 at delivery.  If you test at conception, it is even higher as most embryos with Down Syndrome (Trisomy 21) will miscarry.  Since most people with Down Syndrome are sterile, it really doesn't run in families except in extremely rare circumstances.

[MartyQui]

2 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Honestly, I was a little struck by this as well. His arms looked stick thin.

Haha…I have two nephews (one 20, one 22) who could give him a run in the skinny sweepstakes.

[bobalina]

2 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

He looked like a tubercular teenager to me, especially during his interaction with Miss Higgins.  Which was kind of appropriate.  He is so thin. 

I though they sugar coated the ongoing relationship between the sisters.  The younger one changes her mind and doesn't want the defective baby, but their relationship is just peaches?  And his 'auntie' brings him a tea cup?  

 

That's the cup bio mom gave to her sister for the baby.

[susannah]

5 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I agree but also disagree and here's why. Yes, the episode that introduced Reggie showed him struggling and frankly being a difficult handful to where the Buckles *couldn't* keep him at their home.

BUT since that episode, Reggie comes by for lengthy visits where there's never any real problems and Reggie is basically a source of joy and amusement and helps Fred get up to antics with nary a problem. (I do recall one episode where he was stealing cake to feed some sailor who needed medical help but thats about it for Reggie being a problem)

Agreed but it was pretty strongly implied that love was much more important than any practical concerns concerning the child. The potential adoptive mother was kind of villainized for not wanting a special needs child, for example, and while Fred's talk of learning to love more was lovely (and the actor portrayed it so well, I don't think he gets enough credit for his contribution to this show) it again ignored the really hard things that come with a child with special needs. 

Your points are valid but I just really disagree. Yes Reggie comes home for visits but he is supervised. They don't leave him at home alone. They don't ask him to do more than he is able to do. He helps Fred, but in ways that alot of even special needs young adults could do. I;m not sure what "real" problems could arise on his visits home. He is able to take care of himself, dressing, eating, etc. There have been several times when they worried about him though, the one where he was giving bread to the sick sailor, as you mentioned, the one where Violet was worried that the marketplace sellers were taking advantage of him, and when he put the little tin carousel on Barbara's grave...killer.. and the one where he missed his girlfriend and they were worried someone was taking advantage of him. I agree that his place sounds really nice.

I guess its just perception, but  I don't even think it was implied that all a parent of a special needs child needs to do is to love the child. Fred had no way of knowing what Robert's level of function would be, and said to the father that since they got Reggie when he was already grown up, he didn't know about raising a Down's baby. But, if I remember right, the father was worried that he wouldn't love Robert, not about what his abilities would be.

I also didn't see any "villainizing" of the sister for not taking the baby. She was honest with her feelings, and I was so glad that she was honest beforehand and said no, instead of them taking the baby and then putting him in a home, or hurting him out of frustration. Not everyone feels up to the challenges of a special needs child, especially back then when support and resources were pretty thin. I remember when Rhoda Mollucks, the mother of the thalidomide baby, was, with her husband, just at her wit's end to know how Susan was going to manage anything, eating. using the toilet, bathing, etc, as she grew. But they didn't institutionalize her. Others would, and did.

 

[EllaWycliffe]

1 minute ago, susannah said:

They don't leave him at home alone.

Which is implausible considering his lengthy stays. They both work, at fairly time demanding jobs but even though they couldn't manage originally, there's never any mention that while they love having Reggie visit, its still hard to have him visit. And for a guy who lives at school in the country - Reggie is always in London these days with no one expressing any concern about how having to keep an eye on Reggie constantly is a little wearing. 

I know intellectually that its because the audience likes Reggie and from a writing standpoint, there's no reason to harp on the negative, but it paints a rosy picture of the loving, amusing Downs Syndrome child who isn't difficult ever. 

8 minutes ago, susannah said:

I guess its just perception, but  I don't even think it was implied that all a parent of a special needs child needs to do is to love the child.

I agree perception is certainly in play and we all won't see the episode the same way. I found the constant references to how all the love bloomed magically a bit cloying, especially knowing that reality isn't always so pretty. 

10 minutes ago, susannah said:

I also didn't see any "villainizing" of the sister for not taking the baby.

She was happy and ready to be a mom until she discovered a problem and then she cowardly backed away. A REAL mom - and in this case the birth mom who had NO expectation that the baby would be rejected - would love their baby regardless of disability. Family get togethers will be awkward after this. But my perception of this doesn't make your perception invalid. 

[susannah]

2 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

But my perception of this doesn't make your perception invalid. 

Nor the reverse! I would think that those family get togethers would be very awkward either way. Also, I wonder how any kid would feel when he finds out that his mother gave him away to his aunt. Even if they never told him, secrets always come out. It seems like a badly conceived plan to begin with. See what I did there? 😀 Do you remember the episode quite a while back where the impoverished mother had two children already and had just given birth to a third, and her sister was essentially going to BUY him? I hated that. She was wealthy but would only help her sister in any way unless she turned over her baby. That mother changed her mind too, and the sister acted like she was entitled to the kid.  I can't imagine how such close adoptions would ever work. Nice chatting with you, Ella!

[EllaWycliffe]

6 hours ago, susannah said:

o you remember the episode quite a while back where the impoverished mother had two children already and had just given birth to a third, and her sister was essentially going to BUY him? I hated that. She was wealthy but would only help her sister in any way unless she turned over her baby. That mother changed her mind too, and the sister acted like she was entitled to the kid.  I can't imagine how such close adoptions would ever work.

The secret generally comes out yes. Happened in my own, essentially east end docks family. There's Grandma, Uncle David, Uncle Theo, and Uncle Dick, but Uncle Dick is really Grandma's illegitmite son she had at thirteen after being taken advantage of by the vicar!

[susannah]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

The secret generally comes out yes. Happened in my own, essentially east end docks family. There's Grandma, Uncle David, Uncle Theo, and Uncle Dick, but Uncle Dick is really Grandma's illegitmite son she had at thirteen after being taken advantage of by the vicar!

What a horrible thing. He should have been shot. I am sure way back in the day, that when things like that happened, and I am sure they happened often, that many girls would keep their babies using such deceptions.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

A REAL mom - and in this case the birth mom who had NO expectation that the baby would be rejected - would love their baby regardless of disability.

I find this harsh. Being resentful of having to care for the child would be much worse, for everyone. I think it’s pretty brave to admit you don’t have the wherewithal to raise a special-needs child. Massive respect to those who do, but I don’t think others should be demonized.

[EllaWycliffe]

Oh its not how I feel in general but its how I feel it was presented on the show... the adoptive mom was not really the mom because she wouldn't love the child unconditionally while the birth mom who didn't originally want the baby is overwhelmed by love.

[Daff]

16 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

He looked like a tubercular teenager to me, especially during his interaction with Miss Higgins.  Which was kind of appropriate.  He is so thin. 

Remember the bout with polio…

[Daff]

19 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

BUT since that episode, Reggie comes by for lengthy visits where there's never any real problems and Reggie is basically a source of joy and amusement and helps Fred get up to antics with nary a problem

I think we’re meant to believe the care Reggie received at the “facility” was up to today’s standards and given that facility’s structure and “training/education” when he returned home for visits, he was much more manageable. Did we even see the place during the “girlfriend” fiasco? That would have been in a perfect, mid-century world. In truth, the reality was probably much different. Even in the US, those places were dumping grounds, with no education, training, stimulation, or even quality of care. Case in point, the whole Willowbrook scandal. 

[kwnyc]

On 11/15/2021 at 11:26 AM, susannah said:

I think a lot of adults make impulsive choices when they are scared and against the wall. She obviously had been abused in the convent she grew up in and she was not going to let the same happen to her daughter, and then the head nun threatened her that she wouldn't see Colette at all.

Which also makes you realize that Nancy has little or no experience of a nuclear family: she grew up in an abusive orphanage, and was probably threatened by the nuns with being sent to a Magdalen Laundry when she got pregnant. It wouldn't appear she's had anyone she could trust, and knows that the nuns she dealt with growing up were duplicitous...witnessing them lie about her to get her out of there.

Also meant to add that Sister Hilda showed some real leadership, even though she's clearly champing at the bit to take over for Sr. Julienne! And I think there was just the right amount of Sr. Monica Joan: remembering how awful the Lisbon House has always been (that story about using her headcovering to stop up a broken window!) and then quietly asking what NANCY wants. 

So Sr. Hilda clearly did keep Julienne informed, and they came up with a solution that would allow Nancy to complete her training (which will allow her to support her child), and for the girl to stay with an actual family nearby. The "sister" shoe may drop next season, but it makes me happy that the Nonnatus House nuns seem to come down on the humane side most of the time.

As for Sister Frances and the rat...my wife is an ex-nun, and she recalled a time when one of HER superiors did exactly that. (Though the exact line was: "give me a tennis racquet.")

And I think they are writing Handsome Widower well in that in his grief he's seeking some kind of cause to throw himself into, and Trixie (and Nonnatus House) are right in front of him. And while they clearly like each other, at this point, they are making it a real friendship, which is what Jonty's dad needs right now. And I do like it when Trixie loses her temper.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by kwnyc
Additional thought

[proserpina65]

On 6/2/2021 at 10:31 AM, MissLucas said:

Although I think the show tends to paint a too rosy picture of the realities.

Most shows tend to only look at the positives and ignore the more serious possibilities when it comes to Down Syndrome.  Yes, many (maybe most?) Down Syndrome children can be as high functioning as Reggie but there are some who have much more disabling problems which don't generally get mentioned in stories like this.

That scene between the father and Fred, however, was just marvelous.

On 11/14/2021 at 11:13 PM, Blackie said:

he funniest for me was when Fred had the basket of zucchinis and Violet said they would give them to the senior citizens.  OMG I laughed so hard remembering the first year we tried a community garden plot and planted 4 zucchini seeds and ended up with so many zucchinis I was wandering around with a basket trying to give them to people in my apartment building and then I tried to take them to a seniors residence to donate them but they didn't even want them!!!!!

And zucchinis never go away.  Plant them once and you have them forever.  No matter how much one likes them, you get tired of them pretty quickly.

On 11/15/2021 at 7:07 AM, Haleth said:

Do you really think he is that craven?  He seems like a good man so I don't doubt he will see to it that the slums are renovated and cleaned up.

That was my take on it as well.  He was able to ignore his family's legacy before but can't now and he does seem pretty determined to do something about it.

On 11/15/2021 at 11:20 AM, susannah said:

I believe they did address that, and acknowledge that, when Reggie's mother died and the Buckles took him in. He nearly set the place on fire when he tried to cook something and filled the place with gas. He tried to go back to his home, and was getting harassed by some jerks. It was made clear that he needed close supervision. They looked for places they could send him where he would be happy, seeing some bad ones, and not knowing what to do. Reggie now is in the facility where he is happy, doing his gardening, and enjoys his visits home, but it is always clear that he will always need supervision, for his own safety. I don't know how much more clear they could make it. No one said it would be easier because there is love. But it sure would be alot harder if there isn't, and that is all Fred said to Robert's father.

Honestly, shows that include storylines about Down Syndrome very rarely include much about people with some of the more severe birth defects which can come with the condition, imo.  It's not just Call The Midwife, which, admittedly, has done a slightly better job than most shows.

 

[proserpina65]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I find this harsh. Being resentful of having to care for the child would be much worse, for everyone. I think it’s pretty brave to admit you don’t have the wherewithal to raise a special-needs child. Massive respect to those who do, but I don’t think others should be demonized.

That is rather how it was made to look on the show, that the sister who was going to adopt the baby was somehow a villain because the baby wasn't going to be normal.

1 hour ago, Daff said:

I think we’re meant to believe the care Reggie received at the “facility” was up to today’s standards and given that facility’s structure and “training/education” when he returned home for visits, he was much more manageable. Did we even see the place during the “girlfriend” fiasco? That would have been in a perfect, mid-century world. In truth, the reality was probably much different. Even in the US, those places were dumping grounds, with no education, training, stimulation, or even quality of care. Case in point, the whole Willowbrook scandal. 

And even now, for those without the resources or the ability to pay for help, it can still be very difficult.  I don't know how much would be covered by the National Health in the UK, but here in the US, a lot depends on where you live and how much money you have.

 

[Cetacean]

Kudos to the mother who allowed her DS baby to be filmed for this episode.

[susannah]

1 hour ago, kwnyc said:

Which also makes you realize that Nancy has little or no experience of a nuclear family: she grew up in an abusive orphanage, and was probably threatened by the nuns with being sent to a Magdalen Laundry when she got pregnant. It wouldn't appear she's had anyone she could trust, and knows that the nuns she dealt with growing up were duplicitous...witnessing them lie about her to get her out of there.

Also meant to add that Sister Hilda showed some real leadership, even though she's clearly champing at the bit to take over for Sr. Julienne! And I think there was just the right amount of Sr. Monica Joan: remembering how awful the Lisbon House has always been (that story about using her headcovering to stop up a broken window!) and then quietly asking what NANCY wants. 

So Sr. Hilda clearly did keep Julienne informed, and they came up with a solution that would allow Nancy to complete her training (which will allow her to support her child), and for the girl to stay with an actual family nearby. The "sister" shoe may drop next season, but it makes me happy that the Nonnatus House nuns seem to come down on the humane side most of the time.

As for Sister Frances and the rat...my wife is an ex-nun, and she recalled a time when one of HER superiors did exactly that. (Though the exact line was: "give me a tennis racquet.")

And I think they are writing Handsome Widower well in that in his grief he's seeking some kind of cause to throw himself into, and Trixie (and Nonnatus House) are right in front of him. And while they clearly like each other, at this point, they are making it a real friendship, which is what Jonty's dad needs right now. And I do like it when Trixie loses her temper.

 

I agree about poor Nancy, and about Sr Hilda, but she better not be trying to take Sr Julienne's job! I also liked when Sr Monica Joan, upon hearing that Nancy had a child, said, "so that marginalizes her, but isn't that where we work, with the marginalized?" I like when they call the baby Jonty! We shall see what happens with the tenements from here forward.

1 hour ago, Daff said:

. Case in point, the whole Willowbrook scandal. 

What is this?

[caitmcg]

11 minutes ago, susannah said:

What is this?

This article explains the sordid history of the Willowbrook state school.

[Rootbeer]

35 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

This article explains the sordid history of the Willowbrook state school.

This was also the story that launched Geraldo Rivera's career as an investigative journalist, back when that was what he was.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, caitmcg said:

This article explains the sordid history of the Willowbrook state school.

Wow, I don't recall ever hearing about it but that was God awful to read about. 

When my friend worked at the group home community, one of the residents had CP. She worked outside of the community in computer data entry. I can't imagine how that gentleman must have felt. Trapped in a body but his mind sharp. God bless him. 

[susannah]

5 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Wow, I don't recall ever hearing about it but that was God awful to read about. 

When my friend worked at the group home community, one of the residents had CP. She worked outside of the community in computer data entry. I can't imagine how that gentleman must have felt. Trapped in a body but his mind sharp. God bless him. 

That was godawful to read about but I bet it was true, perhaps of varying degree, for all or most institutions for the disabled, back in the day. They were seen as less than human, and treated thusly. But it was also true, again also of varying degree, of how society felt about alot of people they felt defective or unworthy, orphanages, homes for unwed mothers, the girls sent to the the Magdalene Laundries for being sassy, mental hospitals, etc. Sadly, there are so many who are trapped in their own bodies, often due to cerebral palsy but also MS, muscular dystrophy, etc.

[Rootbeer]

11 hours ago, susannah said:

That was godawful to read about but I bet it was true, perhaps of varying degree, for all or most institutions for the disabled, back in the day. They were seen as less than human, and treated thusly. But it was also true, again also of varying degree, of how society felt about alot of people they felt defective or unworthy, orphanages, homes for unwed mothers, the girls sent to the the Magdalene Laundries for being sassy, mental hospitals, etc. Sadly, there are so many who are trapped in their own bodies, often due to cerebral palsy but also MS, muscular dystrophy, etc.

Also, young children who are institutionalized will learn to imitate the behaviors they see, even if they are not developmentally disabled.  There have been multiple reports of people institutionalized for mental health or developmental problems as a child who turned out to be quite intelligent/not mentally ill  when someone investigated.  However, they'd learned to behave as their fellow patients did, and, as time went on, their brains were essentially rewired which prevented them from ever being able to fully integrate back into society.  So many people never realized their full potential because they were warehoused instead of treated..

[susannah]

5 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Also, young children who are institutionalized will learn to imitate the behaviors they see, even if they are not developmentally disabled.  There have been multiple reports of people institutionalized for mental health or developmental problems as a child who turned out to be quite intelligent/not mentally ill  when someone investigated.  However, they'd learned to behave as their fellow patients did, and, as time went on, their brains were essentially rewired which prevented them from ever being able to fully integrate back into society.  So many people never realized their full potential because they were warehoused instead of treated..

So many. 😪

[CrazyMoon]

On 11/15/2021 at 6:23 PM, MartyQui said:

Haha…I have two nephews (one 20, one 22) who could give him a run in the skinny sweepstakes.

My 6'2" 17yo grandson weighs just under 145#...there is no sign of growth stoppage. Tim's 'exit interview' with Miss Higgins is priceless...especially the handling of lab specimens "with one notable exception". She shows every faith that Tim will be a huge success in his future. I'd like to know more about Miss Higgins, hope her story unfolds over the next few seasons.

I'm loving Sr Frances more & more every episode. She's developing an active social concious. I can see the Turners caring for Collette for the short term...or Nonnatus House taking her in themselves. There is always someone home...
 

Looking fwd to Cyril & Lucille's wedding. 

Little Robert is not profoundly disabled. He will be very similar to Reggie's function level. They had to really look to see if it was indeed Down's. It does very often take a few days after the birth trauma look to recede and really see...wasn't thrilled that they used the straight palmar crease as a sign...I have straight creases, as does the skinny grandson mentioned above...it's a familial trait for us. Sylvia had the cup her sister gave her engraved with his new name and returned it as a gesture of apology & acceptance.

I have CTM set to record. My schedule for next week is the "Special Delivery" episode...check your listings.

[libgirl2]

8 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Also, young children who are institutionalized will learn to imitate the behaviors they see, even if they are not developmentally disabled.  There have been multiple reports of people institutionalized for mental health or developmental problems as a child who turned out to be quite intelligent/not mentally ill  when someone investigated.  However, they'd learned to behave as their fellow patients did, and, as time went on, their brains were essentially rewired which prevented them from ever being able to fully integrate back into society.  So many people never realized their full potential because they were warehoused instead of treated..

Look up Genie one day. What could have been we will never know. 

12 minutes ago, CrazyMoon said:

I'm loving Sr Frances more & more every episode. She's developing an active social concious. I can see the Turners caring for Collette for the short term...or Nonnatus House taking her in themselves. There is always someone home...
 

 

I am really liking her finding her "spunk". 

[dubbel zout]

16 minutes ago, CrazyMoon said:

My schedule for next week is the "Special Delivery" episode

FYI, it's a celebration of the 10 seasons, not the Christmas episode. So no one is disappointed.

17 minutes ago, CrazyMoon said:

Little Robert is not profoundly disabled.

It's a little early to determine how disabled he'll be. If the show keeps up with him, I'm sure his disabilities will be mild, as the show doesn't want to go too far into the weeds with things like this.

[EllaWycliffe]

1 hour ago, CrazyMoon said:

Little Robert is not profoundly disabled. He will be very similar to Reggie's function level.

I mean there's not really any way to know what his function level will be until he's a little older. 

[CrazyMoon]

16 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I mean there's not really any way to know what his function level will be until he's a little older. 

The infant playing "Robert", while obviously Down's, is awake and very alert. The altertness is a strong sign for high function. I've seen many Down's infants...the degrees of difference is staggering. Little Robert may be just fine in the long run. 

[proserpina65]

On 11/18/2021 at 12:46 PM, CrazyMoon said:

The infant playing "Robert", while obviously Down's, is awake and very alert. The altertness is a strong sign for high function. I've seen many Down's infants...the degrees of difference is staggering. Little Robert may be just fine in the long run. 

Thanks for the clarification.  I was going to ask the same question as Ella.

[Clanstarling]

On 11/15/2021 at 8:55 AM, Dehumidifier said:

The woman who plays Nancy reminds me of the singer Lulu.

She reminds me of my sister, who sadly was never able to have the children she wanted.

On 11/15/2021 at 4:09 PM, Mermaid Under said:

He looked like a tubercular teenager to me, especially during his interaction with Miss Higgins.  Which was kind of appropriate.  He is so thin. 

I though they sugar coated the ongoing relationship between the sisters.  The younger one changes her mind and doesn't want the defective baby, but their relationship is just peaches?  And his 'auntie' brings him a tea cup? 

I think the mother was actually relieved her sister changed her mind - as she said, she hadn't been prepared for the love she felt for the child. So to me it stands to reason that their relationship will be just fine after a while. Giving back the silver cup with the boy's new name on it was a step toward that.

[Spunkygal]

I wonder if the Turners will step in as Nancy’s daughter’s foster family? Or maybe they’ll introduce a new family to refresh the show’s dynamic. 

[eel21788]

On 11/14/2021 at 7:29 PM, EllaWycliffe said:

 I think they wuss out on the topic of Downs Syndrome and the difficulties. The fellow who plays Reggie for example is very high functioning and love and caring is lovely but not every Downs Syndrome kid grows up to be high functioning. 

Down's Syndrome doesn't only cause varying degrees of cognitive impairment. They are also very prone to malformed organs, particularly heart and lung, and cancers, especially leukemias.

On 11/15/2021 at 6:44 PM, Rootbeer said:

The risk of having a child with Down Syndrome are related to the mother's age at delivery and start to increase rapidly after age 35.  It doesn't matter how many kids she's had before, it is purely based on maternal age at delivery.  At age 32, the risk is 1 in 750 at birth.  At 42, it rises to 1 in 65 at delivery. 

Down's Syndrome can also be caused by advanced paternal age as well. 

[eel21788]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:42 AM, kwnyc said:

Which also makes you realize that Nancy has little or no experience of a nuclear family: she grew up in an abusive orphanage, and was probably threatened by the nuns with being sent to a Magdalen Laundry when she got pregnant. It wouldn't appear she's had anyone she could trust, and knows that the nuns she dealt with growing up were duplicitous...witnessing them lie about her to get her out of there.

Is anyone else thinking a wayward priest will turn out to be Collette's father?

[Cetacean]

13 hours ago, Spunkygal said:

I wonder if the Turners will step in as Nancy’s daughter’s foster family? Or maybe they’ll introduce a new family to refresh the show’s dynamic. 

I think it's more likely that we'll never see the kid again.  It's just a passing note and it doesn't add anything to the premise of the midwives and their work in the community.  There may be a mention now and then but I doubt it will be any kind of focal point.  It was all neatly tucked up and there might be a mention of "where is Nancy - oh, off visiting her daughter" but I bet that's about it.

[EllaWycliffe]

Because the Turners tend to gather children, and Nancy seems to be a continuing character, the kid could be put there (hey at least this one can speak!) but you're right, it resolves just as easily with the kid never seen but "visited" off screen.

 

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, eel21788 said:

Is anyone else thinking a wayward priest will turn out to be Collette's father?

Haven't we already had a wayward priest as a father story? I could be mixing it up with some other show, though.

[EllaWycliffe]

I don't think the show has done but I was literally regaling you all with how my dad's family who lived in the "Poplar" region of London had this happen in their family....

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I don't think the show has done but I was literally regaling you all with how my dad's family who lived in the "Poplar" region of London had this happen in their family....

I'm so sorry this happened in your family. I don't think that it triggered my memory, however, as I recall a very specific scene with a woman who was a Priest's housekeeper who wanted to keep the baby but the priest wanted her to put it up for adoption. It seems to me in my dim recesses of my mind that Sister Evangalina made short work of the priest. Anyone else remember this?