Trials and Tribulations of Juicy and Tre...

[zoeysmom]

Watching some of the first season on Bravo.  Teresa ordering up all her high end finishes, for the mansion, off ill-gotten loan proceeds.  She looked better before she got her bolt-ons.  Never could stand the stupid, phony chick.

[jinjer]

I think Teresa looked unnaturally flat without implants.  She is one woman who actually looked like she needed them.  Did she stiff the Dr.?  Or was did he comp them?  I think the fertility dr. was the one stiffed.

[Lablover27]

I caught those first episodes today too.  Good thing the sentencing is postponed.  Wonder if the prosecutor's wife DVR'd Tre peeling off hundies.  "I'll take that, and that, and two of those!"  And Joe's "Happy Wife, Happy Life" get those big bubbies.  Watching it all over again with what we know now, is like watching a new show.  

[AuntieDiane6]

 

I think Teresa looked unnaturally flat without implants.  She is one woman who actually looked like she needed them.  Did she stiff the Dr.?  Or was did he comp them?  I think the fertility dr. was the one stiffed.

 

They always comp the plastic surgery.  The fertility doctor was stiffed.

[Almost 3000]

They always comp the plastic surgery.  The fertility doctor was stiffed.

Well they didn't get the son they wanted. Just sayin...

[FairyDusted]

I caught those first episodes today too.  Good thing the sentencing is postponed.  Wonder if the prosecutor's wife DVR'd Tre peeling off hundies.  "I'll take that, and that, and two of those!"  And Joe's "Happy Wife, Happy Life" get those big bubbies.  Watching it all over again with what we know now, is like watching a new show.  

So so true! I had the same DVR wish as well. Though I do have the first few seasons on DVD myself I will gladly turn them over. While I pay my quarterly taxes.  

[badbolocolo]

Too bad about the elder Guidice's passing (somehow it reminded me of Don Corleone's death scene).  Does that mean that the $10K/month payments that he was giving to Juicy will stop?  How will they make up for the shortfall?  Yeah, I'm a heartless bitch, but I have grown more and more weary of entitled jerks who think rules and laws are really just suggestions.  Can you tell I'm the idiot that adheres to the rules?  Lablover, I feel your pain vis a vis the IRS payments, although I think you should just tell them that the dog ate your tax returns right before your computer crashed.

 

Wow!  Great memory!  I forgot all about that alleged 10K a month they were claiming.  If it's not true, what a despicable thing to do to put a family member at risk over something like that.

[zoeysmom]

I had to laugh at Andy asking Teresa the question about how her dismissing her BK saved her from jail time.Teresa just made Andy out to be such a jackass for even repeating such a thing.

 

HAHAHAHAHA-enjoy the slammer (in Teresa's words) BITCH!! Wow what incredibly dishonest people.

[badbolocolo]

Teresa spent a lot of time claiming every story about her bankruptcy was either a lie or exaggerated.  In the in, she lied and exaggerated.  It was all true. I can't think of a thing she denied that turned out to be wrong.

[FozzyBear]

Teresa spent a lot of time claiming every story about her bankruptcy was either a lie or exaggerated. In the in, she lied and exaggerated. It was all true. I can't think of a thing she denied that turned out to be wrong.

.

I actually think she believed it. I really think she's that dumb. I think she just signed whatever Joe told her and then went shopping.

[badbolocolo]

I also think she signed whatever Joe told her to sign, but I think she knew what she was doing. I don't buy that she was completely clueless. He's not working, she's not working, she can spend like a drunken sailor. I don't think she's so stupid she didn't realize that signing a boatload of mortgage papers, each claiming she was making tons of money didn't set off some sort of warning bells.  I'm in complete agreement with those who say that s they fraudulently stole and then act as if they are entitled to the money.

 

They couldn't be bothered to take some of that stolen loot and make life comfortable for the people paying them rent - not posh, but just basic - safe heat, electricity, etc.  From the court records, they couldn't have been bothered to pay back their creditors, either.  I wonder what Teresa's monthly shopping bills were in that same period of time. On WWHL, when they were defending themselves, Joe let it slip that Teresa told him she needed new clothes because she couldn't be filmed wearing the same outfits over and over.  High end cars, designer shoes and clothes.. it makes me ill that she's trying to convince the public that everything she does is for the love of her family.

[LotusFlower]

Typical Teresa. All she cares about is money. What keeps her up at night? Not regret. Not remorse. Not her daughters. Not taking responsibility for her crimes. Money worries. She laments all the money they have to pay their lawyers. THAT was her answer! I'm sure she was thinking about all the things the money could have gone to, like designer clothing, and cars, and new iphones for the girls.....

[Anastasia]

Am I the only one who thinks, passports or no passports, legally or illegally, at some point Teresa & Joe will take the kids and run off to live in Italy rather than go to jail? It's just this nagging feeling I have, even with the feds watching them, I think at some point they will at least try to make a run for it.

[Emme]

Am I the only one who thinks, passports or no passports, legally or illegally, at some point Teresa & Joe will take the kids and run off to live in Italy rather than go to jail? It's just this nagging feeling I have, even with the feds watching them, I think at some point they will at least try to make a run for it.

Wow. That would be something! Seems like they have a support net in Italy already. I just got a mental image of Tre dressing all the girls up in tutu skirts, spangly headbands, and lip gloss, while Joe's at the door saying, "come on, we gotta go... NOW!"

Edited July 13, 2014 by Emme

[Fuzzysox]

I'm trying to get over the bio post that Tre went to college. Really? And she dresses like a cheap hooker still? Did she not learn anything in "college" especially studying fashion!?!?

Edited July 14, 2014 by Fuzzysox

[countrygirlsons]

The first thing that entered my mind, too, was the Don Corleane outdoor death;-) It is too young to just keel over.

 

I have to finally ask...(I'd stopped watching a few years ago, but I watched one or two episodes last season and this is driving me insane): WHAT did Teresa do to her hairline, and more importantly, WHY?? I saw a promo recently and nearly fell off my seat. This looks terribly abnormal, even as a helmet.

[ButterQueen]

Post 911, without passports, the Juicy's won't make it out of the US.

[LilaFowler]

How do they still have their house?  I haven't been following the legal proceedings as closely as some.

[Giselle]

The first thing that entered my mind, too, was the Don Corleane outdoor death;-) It is too young to just keel over.

 

I have to finally ask...(I'd stopped watching a few years ago, but I watched one or two episodes last season and this is driving me insane): WHAT did Teresa do to her hairline, and more importantly, WHY?? I saw a promo recently and nearly fell off my seat. This looks terribly abnormal, even as a helmet.

I also immediately thought of Don Vito toppling over in the tomatoes but you guys are far too quick in posting.

[Mya Stone]

@Lisin and I (your friendly mods) decided that instead of having each episode thread derail into speculation of the sentencing, we would give you a safe place to discuss everything trial related here. 

Speculate away, lawyers and law-obsessed minds! 

[zoeysmom]

Although a Radar-on-Line story I found this interesting that attorneys for Teresa allegedly did not allow her to take a work vacation trip:

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/07/teresa-giudice-bravo-miami-real-housewives-new-jersey/

 

It must suck for the rest of the cast to have to stay stateside instead of a European or Caribbean vacation. 

 

I keep wondering when is Joe Giudice's state court case getting set for trial?  Previously articles stated July 14th and nothing seems to come up.

Edited July 29, 2014 by zoeysmom

[LotusFlower]

The July 14th court date for the state case was scheduled before the federal sentencing hearing was rescheduled, so I'm sure it was called off or rescheduled as well. Joe's attorneys are working to get a plea deal for the DUI/state charges so that he can serve his sentence concurrently with the federal sentence. It's a way to serve his entire stint in federal prison and avoid the state pen.

[chlban]

So to respond to the comments from the other thread, and thank you LotusFlower for pointing this thread out ot me, how do we know the judge is not watching? I understand

that the sentencing  is not supposed to be based on the show, but Judges are human beings.  How can they not be influenced by people who have lied about their financial status flaunting their financial status?

 

I mentioned in another thread, I worked with a guy that was charged with Wire Fraud by the US Government. He owned an Escrow Company and actually took funds that were wried by a major US bank to the Escrow company on a a refinance. Instead of using those funds to pay off the existing mortgage, he pocketed them. Not sure how that isn't just old fashioned theft, but I guess that is an example of how things work in the judicial system. At any rate, he insisted that he was innocent, had done nothing etc. right up until he plead guilty. His explanation for the plea was that his attorney had told him that there was just too much evidence and that his lifestyle was a major red flag. He had, quite simply, spent money like it was water during a time (2008-2010) when most people in the Mortgage/Escrow/Real Estate industries had seen their incomes drop dramatically.

 

So, I cannot imagine it is that different with these two cons. They were, and still are, living like they are rich. How does that not have any impact on the sentencing? It seems to me they are deliberately thumbing their noses at the law.

 

I heard the ratings are way down on this franchise. I would suspect, if that is true, it is at least in part because people are so disgusted with these two.

[LotusFlower]

Whether or not the judge watches the show is a moot point, although that's a funny picture in my head. I think a better way to address the issue is to say that she will be sentencing them based on the evidence presented in court. Yes, Teresa and Joe are flaunting their wealth and extravagant lifestyle on tv, but the prosecutors don't need tv footage to show/prove that - they have document after document as proof. Creditors lined up for miles, unpaid bills, unpaid credit cards, receipts, forged loan documents, etc., etc... If a person steals money, they stole money - and that's a crime. If and how the thief spent the money is irrelevant.

Then there's the whole issue of reality tv. None of it can be taken at face value. A judge would be laughed at in every and any legal circles if she based a sentence on what she saw on a reality show.

I'm just as disgusted as you are at these two grifters. That's why I've been following this case so closely because I want to see justice done. And if a Teresa gets off without jail time, I'll be furious. But I guess I don't see any of it as real, and when I see something that infuriates me - like Teresa moaning about her poor kids without money for college as she spends dollar after dollar on her own personal extravagances, or Joe drunk driving into a tree and saying - with a straight face - that he only got drunk after he crashed the car, I tell myself to be patient, because they might have thought they fooled the public, but they didn't fool the Feds, and they aren't going to fool the judge.

[LuckyBitch]

Judges are human too and although a judge would never admit it, I would not be surprised at all if a judge took a look at a reality show out of curiosity. No one would know about it and it's not what the judge would explicitly base a sentencing decision on, but we'll never know if the judge saw the show.

Edited August 1, 2014 by LuckyBitch

[Lablover27]

Judges are human too and although a judge would never admit it, I would not be surprised at all if a judge took a look at a reality show out of curiosity. No one would know about it and it's not what the judge would explicitly base a sentencing decision on, but we'll never know if the judge saw the show.

 

Ah hmm.  Pillow talk too.  I bet his wife watched ;)  I'd be yaking my head off pulling down the comforter... "and then, she's counting hundies"  "and then, he's counting off hundies"  and then "did you see the clip where he says "so, never tell the truth" and she says "see, ya gotta lie!"  and "they still think they did nothing wrong!"  "Everyone is against them".  "Judgey, honey boo boo, coo coo, we pay our taxes....xxooxxoo"   hee  Oh, is it a female judge?  Okay, switch to - nothing, well, maybe add "he's a douche."

 

Who knows.  I know NOTHING about judges and rulings and sentencing on federal indictments.  THANK YOU JEZUS!  (I've seen Mogo cross herself so many times I've got it down.)

 

Watching Tre still getting make up and hair done drives me cray cray.   Come on.  You owe people money.  At least act like it.  What's the parole hearing going to be like?  Tre "I haven't had a sprayed tan in months!  Look at my hair!  I have four beautiful daughters."   Joe "Dozwhatchagottadowhatever"

 

I do know these two better learn the word 'liquidation' soon.  What's used marble going for these days?  Those huge vases alone could pay for one full day of court appearances for BOTH their attorneys.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Lablover27

[zoeysmom]

Whether or not the judge watches the show is a moot point, although that's a funny picture in my head. I think a better way to address the issue is to say that she will be sentencing them based on the evidence presented in court. Yes, Teresa and Joe are flaunting their wealth and extravagant lifestyle on tv, but the prosecutors don't need tv footage to show/prove that - they have document after document as proof. Creditors lined up for miles, unpaid bills, unpaid credit cards, receipts, forged loan documents, etc., etc... If a person steals money, they stole money - and that's a crime. If and how the thief spent the money is irrelevant.

Then there's the whole issue of reality tv. None of it can be taken at face value. A judge would be laughed at in every and any legal circles if she based a sentence on what she saw on a reality show.

I'm just as disgusted as you are at these two grifters. That's why I've been following this case so closely because I want to see justice done. And if a Teresa gets off without jail time, I'll be furious. But I guess I don't see any of it as real, and when I see something that infuriates me - like Teresa moaning about her poor kids without money for college as she spends dollar after dollar on her own personal extravagances, or Joe drunk driving into a tree and saying - with a straight face - that he only got drunk after he crashed the car, I tell myself to be patient, because they might have thought they fooled the public, but they didn't fool the Feds, and they aren't going to fool the judge.

The US attorneys Office can submit footage from the show as evidence. Sirens certifies it as true and correct footage meaning unedited.  It is up to the defense to refute it.  There have been several cases where reality TV footage has been used in court cases the two that come to mind are Ashley Holmes pulling Danelle Staub's hair, Danielle Staub's civil case where she spoke of her ex-husband, Punta Canta,and the melee last year at Posche where Johnny the Greek is suing for damages.  So if what is being asserted is the actual show vs footage I would say the Court would want the raw footage.  In Teresa's case they may show her claiming to be paying back all her creditors.  Obviously the paper trail is better and the sworn court testimony in the BK case. 

 

Let's make it a little tougher on Teresa-if someone on the show had basically called Teresa a liar.  That same person writes a glowing letter of recommendation of what an upstanding human being Teresa is - that forage could be used as a prior inconsistent statement by the letter writer.  I doubt Teresa is getting any letters from Jac or Caroline.

 

From watching the show, in whatever form, if Teresa were to scream poverty the Government could show the extravagance she surrounds herself with-such as adding a garage structure while leaving the creditors unpaid.  Personally, I get ticked off when all I see these people doing is laying around on the beach.  Convicted felons awaiting sentencing lounging around on the beach.   Not a good image. 

Ah hmm.  Pillow talk too.  I bet his wife watched ;)  I'd be yaking my head off pulling down the comforter... "and then, she's counting hundies"  "and then, he's counting off hundies"  and then "did you see the clip where he says "so, never tell the truth" and she says "see, ya gotta lie!"  and "they still think they did nothing wrong!"  "Everyone is against them".  "Judgey, honey boo boo, coo coo, we pay our taxes....xxooxxoo"   hee  Oh, is it a female judge?  Okay, switch to - nothing, well, maybe add "he's a douche."

 

Who knows.  I know NOTHING about judges and rulings and sentencing on federal indictments.  THANK YOU JEZUS!  (I've seen Mogo cross herself so many times I've got it down.)

 

Watching Tre still getting make up and hair done drives me cray cray.   Come on.  You owe people money.  At least act like it.  What's the parole hearing going to be like?  Tre "I haven't had a sprayed tan in months!  Look at my hair!  I have four beautiful daughters."   Joe "Dozwhatchagottadowhatever"

 

I do know these two better learn the word 'liquidation' soon.  What's used marble going for these days?  Those huge vases alone could pay for one full day of court appearances for BOTH their attorneys.

The judge is a female.  Judges will disclose if they have seen or read anything about the case and then usually add they have not been influenced by what they saw. 

 

I have wondered why they haven't sold the mansion or the beach house.  Bravo money has probably come and gone and Teresa's other interests have tanked so why would they waste what resources they have on big time mortgage and property tax payments? 

 

here is a story albeit poorly written:  http://www.realitytea.com/2014/07/31/is-teresa-giudice-leaving-real-housewives-of-new-jersey-plus-her-potential-sentence/

Edited August 1, 2014 by zoeysmom

[happykitteh]

 

I have wondered why they haven't sold the mansion or the beach house.  Bravo money has probably come and gone and Teresa's other interests have tanked so why would they waste what resources they have on big time mortgage and property tax payments?

 My speculation is they owe more on the houses than they're worth, more money than a sale would bring. If that's the case they would owe the bank the difference between what they owe and what the houses sold for.

[happykitteh]

 

Ashley Holmes pulling Danelle Staub's hair, Danielle Staub's civil case where she spoke of her ex-husband, Punta Canta,and the melee last year at Posche where Johnny the Greek is suing for damages.

 Rules for civil court differ. In addition, the violent incidences involving Ashley, Punta Cana, and Johnny the Greek were blatantly obviously not "acting" - people were injured for real.The tapes of the Guidices spending money, etc., could be claimed to be acting as a character for the show - and no one suffered physical injuries, no one to say "I didn't agree to film the scene this way, to be injured, so I'm suing and using the tape as evidence".

 

I would assume the rules for judges are the same as they are for juries. You may NOT use outside evidence not introduced during the proceedings to base a decision. You, as a juror, may NOT have been influenced by media/ reports surrounding the case. If so, you are excused. Same would apply to a judge. Bedides, isn't this a sentencing hearing where no new evidence is presented? The judge has the facts already (no introducting Bravo footage at a sentencing) and the Guidices ask for the mercy of the court.

[Lisin]

I'm pretty sure way back when they were indicted I read that the Feds had subpoenaed all the available uncut footage from the show. So there's that. 

[zoeysmom]

 Rules for civil court differ. In addition, the violent incidences involving Ashley, Punta Cana, and Johnny the Greek were blatantly obviously not "acting" - people were injured for real.The tapes of the Guidices spending money, etc., could be claimed to be acting as a character for the show - and no one suffered physical injuries, no one to say "I didn't agree to film the scene this way, to be injured, so I'm suing and using the tape as evidence".

 

I would assume the rules for judges are the same as they are for juries. You may NOT use outside evidence not introduced during the proceedings to base a decision. You, as a juror, may NOT have been influenced by media/ reports surrounding the case. If so, you are excused. Same would apply to a judge. Bedides, isn't this a sentencing hearing where no new evidence is presented? The judge has the facts already (no introducting Bravo footage at a sentencing) and the Guidices ask for the mercy of the court.

There has never been any evidence presented or admitted to the Court.  Because the Giudices took a plea there was no evidentiary portion in their proceedings.  A judge, unlike a juror, can read the newspaper, watch the news and read on line stories.  The canons require they remain impartial.  What they can't do is have ex-parte communication with some one involved in the case.  If the do they must disclose the communication and counsel is allowed to weigh in  What you never see is a federal judge give a press interview-ever. 

 

The Feds rely heavily on the probation report for background on the defendants.  The defendants are required to be honest and are not represented by counsel during the pre-sentencing interview.  When I heard there was an "administrative delay" in the Giudice sentencing I presumed there was either some objections to the probation report  (by one side or the other or both) or they hadn't determined the actual loss to the victims.

 

Outside evidence is a hard thing to define.  At sentencing many defendants have letters of recommendation written attesting to their virtues.  Certainly these individuals opinions are not evidence in the true sense of the word.  So if the US Attorneys office for instance objects to a claim by the defense that Teresa is a mild, even tempered individual or that she did little to conceal her crimes, the US Attorneys office might ask that say the "Country Clubbed" footage be used where she is running like a maniac through a country club proclaiming her mansion is not in foreclosure.  Another example might be footage of the Giudices living large at their beach house while lying to the BK court.  If I were prosecuting I would personally use the tape where Teresa claims she taught her brother every thing he knows about business.  Just to show she is not some innocent.

 

My feeling is the goal of the Giudice defense is to paint Teresa as a minor participant, mitigate her sentence and restitution and hope for either staggered sentencing with Joe's or house arrest for Teresa. 

Edited August 2, 2014 by zoeysmom

[Lablover27]

Crap, our fellow posters know their shit!  I'm loving it.  Thank you all very much. 

[Lablover27]

Whether or not the judge watches the show is a moot point, although that's a funny picture in my head. I think a better way to address the issue is to say that she will be sentencing them based on the evidence presented in court. Yes, Teresa and Joe are flaunting their wealth and extravagant lifestyle on tv, but the prosecutors don't need tv footage to show/prove that - they have document after document as proof. Creditors lined up for miles, unpaid bills, unpaid credit cards, receipts, forged loan documents, etc., etc... If a person steals money, they stole money - and that's a crime. If and how the thief spent the money is irrelevant.

Then there's the whole issue of reality tv. None of it can be taken at face value. A judge would be laughed at in every and any legal circles if she based a sentence on what she saw on a reality show.

I'm just as disgusted as you are at these two grifters. That's why I've been following this case so closely because I want to see justice done. And if a Teresa gets off without jail time, I'll be furious. But I guess I don't see any of it as real, and when I see something that infuriates me - like Teresa moaning about her poor kids without money for college as she spends dollar after dollar on her own personal extravagances, or Joe drunk driving into a tree and saying - with a straight face - that he only got drunk after he crashed the car, I tell myself to be patient, because they might have thought they fooled the public, but they didn't fool the Feds, and they aren't going to fool the judge.

 

I too am trying to be patient and hope they aren't going to fool the judge.   They are only sad because they got caught and will now have to go to 'college'.  So, are they teaching their girls these are what dorms at college look like?  More lies.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Lablover27

[cereality]

I assume neither Teresa or Joe have passports right now since they are awaiting sentencing, and post 9-11 it is next to impossible to travel without a passport esp between the US and Western Europe. But somehow I can see these 2 making a break for it -- I feel like they'd fly to some island nation in the Caribbean where security isn't all that tight, pay some bribes, get fake passports and use those for Italy. I have no idea why I think this, but I think they only reason they aren't freaked out about prison is because in their heart of hearts, they don't plan on going. Though if they were going to execute any such plan, they'd better get a move on -- the feds' scrutiny will only grow in the days before sentencing.

 

In any event, I can see them staying and facing the music but sending the girls off to Italy. Presumably the girls all have passports and Joe has a ton of family over there who would take their great-nieces/great granddaughters either for a yr or two or indefinitely. It would allow Joe and Teresa to go to college or camp or whatever they're calling it without having to worry about who will take care of the girls, having to deal with visitation with a hysterical Gia etc.

[zoeysmom]

 My speculation is they owe more on the houses than they're worth, more money than a sale would bring. If that's the case they would owe the bank the difference between what they owe and what the houses sold for.

Here is my gripe about the house having more owed on it than it is worth-the proceeds from the fraud scheme went into building that house, the loan was fraudulently obtained.  It would be like Apollo Nida getting to keep the cars he got the fake loans on because they are below the value of what is owed.

 

If I read the BK decision correctly the assessed value of the house is just slightly below what is owed and I believe the beach house, the one solely in Teresa's name is above value although the condition is unknown.  I am certain that G&G Construction -or whatever business Joe's father has received the insurance proceeds from Sandy.  My point being they are allowed to live large as long as the make the payments. They do not have to make the payments on the several upside mortgages that are now foreclosed properties that were used to fund the mansion and the beach house.

 

I bet the houses furnished (even though I find Teresa's taste garish)   or with one of their many vehicles, ATV would net pretty close to the amount loaned on the property.  I realize Teresa and Joe have spent quite a bit of money fighting to hold on to their earthly goods and at time of sentencing maybe their or her desire for all the flashy ill gotten gain should be weighed very heavily.

[happykitteh]

 

I'm pretty sure way back when they were indicted I read that the Feds had subpoenaed all the available uncut footage from the show. So there's that.

 If that rumor is indeed true, If that came from a legit news source rather than a "sources tell Stoopid Housewives (fill in the name of any online HW site)" then I think the Feds have given the Guidices a way to wrigggle out by saying "It was acting for the show!" I hope the Feds presented unrefutable black and white proof, financial records,  to the judge and didn't rely on reality tv to present their case.

 

If I read the BK decision correctly the assessed value of the house is just slightly below what is owed

 I read that's why the bank didn't take the house - the bank would lose money trying to unload it. Maybe they figure it's better to let the Guidices keep the house for the time being, keep paying down the mortgage while property values rise, then take the house down the road when the Guidices can no longer pay the mortgage and default. Mortgage will be less, property value will have risen.

Edited August 2, 2014 by happykitteh

[happykitteh]

 

Too bad about the elder Guidice's passing (somehow it reminded me of Don Corleone's death scene).  Does that mean that the $10K/month payments that he was giving to Juicy will stop?

 What was Papa Guidice doing for a living that he could (supposedly) afford to give $10K a month? Who paid the gift tax on that money?

[badbolocolo]

I'm curious about Teresa's father, too.  He owned a shoe repair shop, but during the first reunion she claimed that the reason she can't stand "used" and "not cleansy' houses is that she was use to having the best of everything because her father always gave her everything she wanted.  Was that an exaggeration?  A lie?  Was he making money from something other than a shoe repair shop?  It's an honest living, but I've never heard of anyone getting rich operating one small shoe repair business.  I would think they had a decent, comfortable life.  

[zoeysmom]

 If that rumor is indeed true, If that came from a legit news source rather than a "sources tell Stoopid Housewives (fill in the name of any online HW site)" then I think the Feds have given the Guidices a way to wrigggle out by saying "It was acting for the show!" I hope the Feds presented unrefutable black and white proof, financial records,  to the judge and didn't rely on reality tv to present their case.

 I read that's why the bank didn't take the house - the bank would lose money trying to unload it. Maybe they figure it's better to let the Guidices keep the house for the time being, keep paying down the mortgage while property values rise, then take the house down the road when the Guidices can no longer pay the mortgage and default. Mortgage will be less, property value will have risen.

Here is a story regarding  the subpoenaing of the tapes.  http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/confidential/giudice-

prosecutors-real-housewives-outtakes-article-1.1430486 

Of course thel true and correct financial records were used as evidence during the indictment process.  Since the Giudices have plead guilty the Court won't be seeing them.  I know I am not saying that the tapes are the only evidence being used they are just a source of information for the prosecution to use in building their case be it for an evidentiary hearing or a sentencing.

 

As far as the tapes go, there is a presumption that what one sees and hears on the tape is true and correct absent a script or a third party witness saying Teresa was prompted to say those words, my favorite being, "I taught my brother everything he knows about business."  So Teresa would have to say, "well I was lying then but I am telling the truth now, when I say I am unsophisticated and have no idea how business works, or loans, or declaring or concealing assets and income on a bankruptcy petition."  A better example is when Joe was heard on a telephone call calling Teresa a c-word.  Joe's explanation was it was the first time he had every called her that and he never uses the word.  Teresa's was he didn't say it to my face.  Jacqueline-a third party said-"he calls her that all time."  Again it goes to credibility of the witnesses but you do have a tape of Joe calling her the word.  There very well may be tape of other occasions of Joe using the word.  (This of course has no bearing on the fraud allegations-it is simply being used as an example of inconsistent statements and how tapes may play a role.)

 

Again my gripe about the shortfall on the Giudice mansion loan is essentially 3% of the amount owed.  Here is a story, please read the updates-on a $1.7 million dollar loan, I find a $60,000.00 deficiency pretty tame.  http://www.realitytea.com/2014/01/22/bankruptcy-court-rules-that-teresa-giudice-can-keep-her-mansion/  Mortgage fraud was committed in obtaining the loan.  My feeling is had they been forced to sell or surrender the property the $12,000.00 a month payments could be used to pay off creditors.  Same with the beach house-it is about extinguishing luxury financial obligations to free up their present income to repay creditors.  I don't remember if it is statutory or just common place but the Court usually set restitution and fine repayment  at 25% of the defendant's earnings and that is usually after taxes.  If the balance of the the fines and restitution is on Joe-it will never be paid and Teresa will continue to live in the mansion and enjoy whatever proceeds she gets from her reality TV star earnings.  So essentially she will suffer no consequences other than the $200,000.00 she had to put up to pay back taxes.

[cereality]

I'm curious about Teresa's father, too.  He owned a shoe repair shop, but during the first reunion she claimed that the reason she can't stand "used" and "not cleansy' houses is that she was use to having the best of everything because her father always gave her everything she wanted.  Was that an exaggeration?  A lie?  Was he making money from something other than a shoe repair shop?  It's an honest living, but I've never heard of anyone getting rich operating one small shoe repair business.  I would think they had a decent, comfortable life.  

I'm sure her parents did fine and he may have been the kind of daddy who never said no to his daughter -- so if she wanted a new dress or toy, he may have found a way to always get it for her. That doesn't mean that she was asking for or he was providing brand new McMansions for the family; it may have just meant that he never said no to day-to-day things. Then I think she got with Joe, and both are as dumb as rocks though she fancies herself pretty smart. I think she and Joe discovered credit cards and starting living large. Then when the bills starting rolling in and debt mounted, I bet she harassed him to do something more lucrative than work at a pizza shop (I doubt he owned a business right when they married). Construction is/was an easy way for strong guys without an education to make some cash, so I bet that's how he ended up in construction. Then I bet as they both wanted even more, they came up with the idea of him running a construction business because then the boss makes all the money -- probably not realizing things like overhead, taxes, downswings in the construction market when the economy heads south ever few years.

 

These people do have an odd view of taxes from the beginning. Remember the scene when Rich Wakile takes teenage Joseph to one of his gas stations? They were talking and Joseph says he doesn't want to work for anyone, he wants to run his own business because then you can do what you want and you don't REALLY have to pay taxes. Rich corrects him and says if he will run a business, it will be on the up and up -- though I have to wonder if that correction would have happened without the cameras right there. Though of all the NJ couples, I do think Rich and Kathy aren't engaged in as many shady business deals as the rest -- simply because their lifestyle is not nearly as lavish as Jacqueline/Chris, Teresa/Joe, Manzos etc. They live in a very nice home -- but it is upper middle class nice -- the kind of home you could afford if you had a business or two -- not nice enough to be a palace.

[LotusFlower]

Since the Giudices pled guilty, the only thing left to this case is the sentencing hearing. All evidence has already been presented. Joe and Teresa will address the Court and probably ask for leniency in a carefully worded statement, as will their lawyers, but otherwise, the judge is likely going into the hearing with the sentences in hand.

[MakingBacon]

I honestly don't believe that the show will have much effect on sentencing. This is Federal Court, not a state court. Federal Court is always hardcore, especially their judges. The feds always get their man, or woman, and they tend to get the sentence they want. If you take the show out of it, Teresa and Joe's crimes are really quite ordinary in the world of white collar crime. There is only media attention because of the show. I have no doubt that the judge has seen this type of case many times before and her sentencing will reflect her prior rulings. She has to go by the sentencing guidelines and I have no doubt she will. It's likely the sentences will be staggered so one parent can be at home with the kids. I can see Teresa hoping that Joe goes first because she probably thinks that by the time he is out, she will have figured out some way to avoid serving time. Federal sentences usually require that 80% of time be served before the chance of release, unlike the 50% good behavior for state courts. That is a long time for Teresa to figure out a way to try and avoid prison, which sje is unlikely to be able to do. I can hear her hamster wheel spinning.

I do feel bad for the kids, especially Gia. She obviously knows what is going on and it seems to be taking its toll. It’s interesting because I really disliked her the first few seasons due to her bratty attitude, yet she seems to be the only person on this show, including the adults, who seems to have calmed down and actually matured.

[happykitteh]

 

Mortgage fraud was committed in obtaining the loan.  My feeling is had they been forced to sell or surrender the property the $12,000.00 a month payments could be used to pay off creditors.

 You're assuming the bank that holds the mortgage cares about what's morally right, what's fair to the other creditors. They don't. They care about what's best for them. They would rather the Guidices keep making that hefty mortgage payment - which includes a shitload of interest to them - than take a $60,000 loss. The bank that holds the mortgage will bide their time, let the Guidices keep paying on the principle and interest, until the balance owed is not more than the house is worth and the Guidices start missing payments - which they will. The Guidices will eventually lose that house. There is no way they will be able to keep up the mortgage payments now that they'll have to pay with money obtained legally. If Teresa is pissed about all the money that's going to the lawyers just wait until they lose that house and she realizes all the months they pissed away a $12,000 a month mortgage payment and have absolutely nothing to show for it once the house has gone to the bank. Think how far $12,000 a month would go towards funding the college funds she's suddenly worrried about.

[happykitteh]

 

As far as the tapes go, there is a presumption that what one sees and hears on the tape is true and correct absent a script

 Tamra from OC is in trouble for publicly stating more than once they ARE told what to say, how to behave. Alexis (OC) also alluded to that and a past cast member from NY. A poster here named Trooper who has done reality TV wrote that TH's on reality shows are scripted and IIRC he talked with cast members of HW shows who said theirs are too. That would open up a big ol' can of worms for Bravo if Bravo had to testify to how much is real, how much is scripted. Andy would shit himself since he's so protective over keeping the allusion all is real, LOL! Moot point though, since the Guidices are going to a sentencing and there will be no trial, therefore no evidence or testimony presented.

[happykitteh]

 

I'm curious about Teresa's father, too.  He owned a shoe repair shop, but during the first reunion she claimed that the reason she can't stand "used" and "not cleansy' houses is that she was use to having the best of everything because her father always gave her everything she wanted.

 I hate this To The Manor Born attitude both Teresa and Melissa have (Joe stating that Mel is used to the "small and disgusting home they currently live in). Were did they live as young adults? Did they ever live in a dorm at college?Where did they live when they were first married? Unless your parents have the money to fund your life after you move out of their home everyone starts out in an apartment or small house. Even those who end up in a lucrative career started out living in a "used" apt or house.

[happykitteh]

 

Remember the scene when Rich Wakile takes teenage Joseph to one of his gas stations? They were talking and Joseph says he doesn't want to work for anyone, he wants to run his own business because then you can do what you want and you don't REALLY have to pay taxes.

Ha, ha! What a dope. Business owners get hammered on taxes! I guess he thinks business owners don't have to pay their bills either since Richie was in trouble for not paying his gas suppliers.

[badbolocolo]

 I hate this To The Manor Born attitude both Teresa and Melissa have (Joe stating that Mel is used to the "small and disgusting home they currently live in). Were did they live as young adults? Did they ever live in a dorm at college?Where did they live when they were first married? Unless your parents have the money to fund your life after you move out of their home everyone starts out in an apartment or small house. Even those who end up in a lucrative career started out living in a "used" apt or house.

 

Exactly.  I thought Melissa and Joe lived in a small house and ran his business out of his parents' garage when they were first married.  I'm kinda thinking that the house they live in is a damned sight better than the garage they spent most of the day with, even with Antonia when she was born.  Give me a break.

 

Teresa definitely insinuated that she had the best of everything as a child, not the best of what a decent blue collar salary could provide.  If she was ashamed of her father's job and couldn't be real about it, I think she's a horrible person through and through.  The money was enough to keep a roof over her head and she ate. Neither she nor her brother have ever sold a hard luck story about their childhood that I can remember.  Her father was able to help bring part of her family over from Italy.  He didn't need to be rich.  She's an idiot, in my opinion, to think that she's selling her father, like her husband, as some mogul who gave her everything she could ever desire.  

 

If she was, then, like she is now - giving her all she desires would seem to be an impossibility.  All that money swindled, and even when she was in trouble it didn't stop her from wanting more.  She KNOWS she's facing prison time and is telling her husband she still needs new clothes and shoes "for work" because she can't keep wearing the same things twice on television?  Joe busted her in their "tell nothing" interview with Andy on WWHL.  That dolt actually looked surprised that wasn't the case.

\

[happykitteh]

Another thing that really disgusts me about Teresa is the way she just assumes Joe should take all the heat. Like most husbands would, Joe has no problem trying to protect his wife, taking all the blame, trying to keep Tre out of prison, taking the fall for both of them. Tre, on the other hand, would NEVER, not for ONE SECOND, take the fall for Joe. She would never sacrafice herself for him the way he has tried to do for her. For all her talk about how Joe is her life, the love of her life, etc., it seems to me that Joe loves her more than she does him. She'd throw him under the bus in a second to save her own ass. Joe may have been the mastermind behind the schemes but Tre went along happily and profited. Not believing for a second Tre didn't know that money was dirty. In my mind that means Joe should not have to be the one who falls on his sword while she carries on life as usual. I have a bad feeling Tre will not do time, she'll get probation, and Joe will be in the slammer. I hope he spends that time looking back and realizing Tre never offered to take the blame and left him hanging.

[AnnieBananie]

I want to give Milania a good hard slap. What an obnoxious child.

[Duke2801]

I really don't like poking fun at the looks of children but in this case it's justified. Milania has set the stage and opened up the doors for some full-on personal attacks due to her increasingly spoiled, bratty and demanding demeanor, not to mention the bizarre appearance.

 

I actually think Gia is "growing into her looks," as that saying goes.  And I think both Gabriella and Audriana are very pretty.  Milania is the only one whose appearance is a little "off." 

 

Case in point, I think this pic of Gia and Audriana is lovely:  http://cdn1-www.realitytea.com/assets/uploads/2014/08/gia-audriana.jpg