True Crime: Dateline's Coverage of the Betsy Faria Case & Other Similar Stories

[CraftyHazel]

You know, if Askey had a drop of humility or humanity in her, she would admit that she was duped by Pam herself, or blinded by her own ambition, or hell, just that she made a mistake.  She’d offer an apology to Russ, and the people who despise her might just despise her a tiny bit less.  But nope, she doubles down and can’t admit that Russ was and is innocent.  I don’t think she’s much better than Pam, honestly.

I actually don’t blame Russ for not being ready to accept Betsy’s mother and daughters back into his life.  He and Betsy were married over ten years…by then, they all should have had an idea of what kind of man he was or wasn’t.  I understand he wasn’t the ideal man, but as far as murder goes, I’m sorry, I may just be too trusting but I’d have to have a lot of hard core, honest-to-goodness proof that my dad or son-in-law had killed someone, not just the half-assed theories proposed by Askey.  Mariah at least was still a kid (well, a teenager) when Russ went to trial, but Betsy’s mom didn’t believe in Russ’s innocence until Pam was charged.

I remember the first time I saw this case covered on Dateline, I didn’t think Russ was guilty.  The receipts, the timeline, the alibi witnesses, and all just convinced me.  It’s amazing to me how many twists and turns this story took.

[Enigma X]

I am so glad they did not re-interview Pam. She is a narcissist. I am sure it is eating her up that she was not in the limelight again.

[Infiltr8]

Wow…..Askey still doesn’t seem to think she did anything wrong……I kind of get once it’s  going to trial it’s was her job at that time get a conviction but to now not even  consider  maybe they should have been more thorough back then….and try and justify they did nothing wrong and Russ still did it…. Just wow…..

 

[JeanJean]

1 hour ago, Infiltr8 said:

Wow…..Askey still doesn’t seem to think she did anything wrong……I kind of get once it’s  going to trial it’s was her job at that time get a conviction but to now not even  consider  maybe they should have been more thorough back then….and try and justify they did nothing wrong and Russ still did it…. Just wow…..

 

After I read your post I googled "who decides to prosecute?" and it say the prosecutors does. So I guess she could have chosen not to bring Russ to trial with so much evidence proving he was innocent and nothing but theory that he was guilty.

Edited April 16, 2022 by JeanJean

[Carolina Girl]

And let’s not forget that judge in the first trial.  Askew saying to Pam “ she’s on our side.”   Thank God she was kicked off the bench.  I think several of her cases were remanded back for retrial.   

Askey should be disbarred.  If nothing else for the fact that she deliberately withheld exculpatory evidence.  

[DaWezl]

I just don’t understand how Askey’s mind works.  Ok, so she’s decided to double down on Russ being guilty bc she’s too insecure to admit she was wrong.  I’ve known people like that who will cling to the most outlandish theories bc they absolutely will never say they made a mistake.  But here’s where it gets weird:

She’s had an easy “out” with Dateline.  She could easily just stick with the story that the evil “Big Media” show exaggerated everything to attack a successful woman trying to fight for another woman and that only she “knows the full story” and plenty of people would believe that and think she was the victim here.  Sure, there’s be some renewed interest in the case with the tv show but no one will be thinking of it three months later.

But instead, she accepts the invite to come on this show, where she KNOWS they are going to go after her AND they have edit control.  How did she think this would ever be a situation that would be good for her?  (And yes, that’s more of a rhetorical question bc clearly she’s not shown any kind of sharp critical thinking skills.)

[MsMalin]

I had watched and listened to all of the stories prior to watching the mini series but thought Renees acting was over the top but after watching last nights Date line I find that she was spot on!  There was great acting in that.

Pam is just plain evil. Askey is just plain stupid.

Weird how Dateline became.part of the story.

I feel so so sorry for the poor innocent man that she murdered. And how wild is it that Russ ended up with the woman she lured?

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by MsMalin

[Enigma X]

After watching Askey, I question how she passed the bar. She just does not seem to be that smart or aware.

[mostlylurking]

9 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

I actually don’t blame Russ for not being ready to accept Betsy’s mother and daughters back into his life.  He and Betsy were married over ten years…by then, they all should have had an idea of what kind of man he was or wasn’t.

Yeah, I can’t blame him for not wanting contact with them anymore even if it’s sad.  The mother even said last night Russ was always good to her and her family.  So you immediately believe he somehow turned into a murderer because some inept law enforcement people say so?  Because they went through a rough patch in their marriage where they fought a lot?  Doesn’t make sense to me.  

Thank god Russ had an awesome lawyer who truly cared and didn’t give up.  Russ could have easily fallen through the cracks if he had a lawyer who didn’t give a shit and didn’t push for a new trial.

Pam benefited from the incompetence of the Troy police department and prosecutors.  Not everyone in law enforcement are such complete idiots.  The prosecutor from the other town was hot!

Everyone has already said all my thoughts about Askey.  What a stupid, bitter woman.   I loved when she said it’s not her job to decide who to prosecute and Keith was like umm yes, that’s absolutely your job you shrew!  She’s horrible. 

[AZChristian]

In some ways, I think Pam and Askey are cut from the same cloth.  They believe that if they tell you something - no matter HOW absurd - you're supposed to believe them.  They believe they can twist the truth and outright lie . . . but it's okay for THEM to do that.  

I'm glad Askey and the judge were voted out.  It shows that the majority of people in that jurisdiction have common sense.

I feel sorry for the children of these three women.  Their lives have been ruined by their mothers' horrendous behavior in this case, too.

[Straycat80]

I’m glad Keith Morrison really slammed Leah Askey in the Dateline special. I was amazed that she still thought Russ killed Betsy. In many ways her and Pam were so much alike. I was also smh that she now has her own law practice and says business is well. I wonder after these shows how her business might now be affected. 
It’s sad Russ will not speak to the daughter. She said she was a teen when her mom was murdered and just doing what she was told to by the adults in her life at the time. At least Russ has found some peace and happiness with Carol. 

[fishcakes]

If the instincts that made Askey prosecute Russ are the same ones that told her it would be a good idea to do a Dateline interview, then she needs to be George Costanza from now on and always do the opposite. It wasn't just all the sarcasm and defiant justification; she also flat-out lied at least twice. First saying that her theory of the game night buddies covering for Russ wasn't her accusing them of conspiracy in the murder, she just thought they were covering for him meeting up with his girlfriend as, she says, they had done "many times." But he had no girlfriend! It was just another story she completely made up. Then the trace amounts of blood on his feet, which she says they couldn't identify as belonging to anyone, so it was probably Betsy's. Keith Morrison: "in fact, it was Russ's blood."

And her claim that in the second trial, they had so much more evidence that if they'd had it earlier, Russ would have confessed, but when Keith asked her what the evidence was, she named a couple of things that amounted to nothing: Russ's feet and a kitchen towel. And even with all this "new evidence" 🙄 she didn't win her second case. And the judge was even like, "um who investigated this case, were they higher primates or no?"

When she said that her failure to investigate Pam in the first place and the murder of Louis Gumpenberger were unrelated to each other, I wanted to reach through the TV and smack her.

One thing I noticed is that she never directly said that she still believes Russ is guilty. She's very careful to say that it was a valid prosecution based on the evidence that was "brought" to her (as if she had zero input in that investigation), and when Keith asked her if she still thinks Russ did it, she doesn't say yes, she just said something like, "I've never seen any evidence that points to anyone else." She's really weaselly about it, so someone may be advising her that if she continues to say he killed Betsy that Russ could bring a defamation suit based on that, and she wouldn't be protected by governmental immunity for statements she makes now.

They kind of buried the bombshell at the end, though: three investigators saying Leah asked them to lie and a new inquiry into misconduct on her part. If the inquiry determines that she did try to get investigators to lie, a lot of people who were prosecuted by Leah are going to have their cases reopened. She didn't just ruin the lives of Russ and his family and the Gumpenbergers, she probably fucked over other innocent people. And guilty people also deserve fair trials, so if those prosecutions were corrupted by her, then they should get new trials too. Just hard to underestimate the damage she did.

1 hour ago, mostlylurking said:

The prosecutor from the other town was hot!

Haha, that was my reaction too.

[TVMovieBuff]

On 3/9/2022 at 3:11 PM, Cinnabon said:

“Fargo” and “To Die For” (also based on a true story) both come to mind for me. And I absolutely loved them both, so I’m in for the duration.

I don't know if you are referencing the movie Fargo, or the TV series. I haven't seen the series. 

But the movie was not based on a true story, it was a fictional screenplay. The Coen brothers put in the Based on a true story card in the start of the movie, for laughs.

[Crs97]

3 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

It’s sad Russ will not speak to the daughter. She said she was a teen when her mom was murdered and just doing what she was told to by the adults in her life at the time.

At some point someone pointed me to her Instagram page.  She is another one who just refuses to apologize to Russ.  She said on tv that she was sorry for what he went through, but now they need to move forward.  Not exactly an apology.  She immediately jumps to “I was just a kid” when 17 isn’t exactly a baby.  She then made a comment that she is now a mom and nothing would ever make her turn away from her child, putting the onus back on Russ like he’s the bad guy for not forgiving her.  (I wondered if she thinks that her child could ever decide she is capable of committing the worst crime imaginable and how that would make her feel.)  She also made a post about how everyone else is profiting from her mom’s death while she can’t make rent.  I am sure she was in shock and grieving and totally know she was a victim in all this, but her posts just made me go, “hmm.”

I was glad to see that she acknowledged on Dateline that Russ had the right to feel betrayed because her previous comments seemed efforts to absolve herself from any responsibility.

[preeya]

Keith Morrison says, "isn't that a pretty iron-clad alibi" referring to the Arby's timestamped receipt and the time he arrived at the scene (his home)?

Askey replies "I didn't think so"

She's just a tunnel visioned asshole!

Edited April 16, 2022 by preeya

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, Enigma X said:

After watching Askey, I question how she passed the bar. She just does not seem to be that smart or aware.

And a liar. Remember when she said that Russ cried a lot but never shed any tears? Followed by the video of Russ clearly wiping his teary eyes in the interrogation room.

5 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

Thank god Russ had an awesome lawyer who truly cared and didn’t give up.  Russ could have easily fallen through the cracks if he had a lawyer who didn’t give a shit and didn’t push for a new trial

He was incredibly lucky! Thank goodness.

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, TVMovieBuff said:

I don't know if you are referencing the movie Fargo, or the TV series. I haven't seen the series. 

But the movie was not based on a true story, it was a fictional screenplay. The Coen brothers put in the Based on a true story card in the start of the movie, for laughs.

“To Die For” was loosely based on the Pamela Smart case. I know Fargo was fictional, I was just referencing the similar tone between all 3 there.

[CrystalBlue]

5 hours ago, Crs97 said:

At some point someone pointed me to her Instagram page.  She is another one who just refuses to apologize to Russ.  She said on tv that she was sorry for what he went through, but now they need to move forward.  Not exactly an apology.  She immediately jumps to “I was just a kid” when 17 isn’t exactly a baby.  She then made a comment that she is now a mom and nothing would ever make her turn away from her child, putting the onus back on Russ like he’s the bad guy for not forgiving her.  (I wondered if she thinks that her child could ever decide she is capable of committing the worst crime imaginable and how that would make her feel.)  She also made a post about how everyone else is profiting from her mom’s death while she can’t make rent.  I am sure she was in shock and grieving and totally know she was a victim in all this, but her posts just made me go, “hmm.”

I was glad to see that she acknowledged on Dateline that Russ had the right to feel betrayed because her previous comments seemed efforts to absolve herself from any responsibility.

So I didn't watch this special Dateline with my favorite Keith Morrison after all, but hopefully will get access to it soon.  Anyway, I think that Russ has made a wise decision to not speak to the daughter.  I'm happy he and Carol found each other despite the grim circumstances and are happy!

The Askey attorney woman is one piece of work!  She didn't think an iron-clad alibi was valid?  I agree that she and Pam Hupp are cut from the same rotten and stinky piece of cloth.

Edited April 16, 2022 by CrystalBlue

[Carolina Girl]

6 hours ago, preeya said:

Keith Morrison says, "isn't that a pretty iron-clad alibi" referring to the Arby's timestamped receipt and the time he arrived at the scene (his home)?

Askey replies "I didn't think so"

She's just a tunnel visioned asshole!

She’s the Mike Nifong of Missouri.  I’d demand of her if she didn’t believe the alibi why she didn’t charge them all with being accessories to murder.    I can see het clients dumping her en masse on Monday now that they realize who she is (she practices using her married name).  And If she’s exonerated for her role in this miscarriage of Justice, then shame.on the Missouri State Bar.  

[J-Man]

Since NBC seems to be so invested in this case--how long until Pam's story becomes a "ripped from the headlines" story on "Law & Order?"

[preeya]

1 hour ago, J-Man said:

Since NBC seems to be so invested in this case--how long until Pam's story becomes a "ripped from the headlines" story on "Law & Order?"

Dick Wolf is probably already working on it.

[Cinnabon]

In this case, the truth will always be stranger than fiction!

[CrystalBlue]

Watched!  So happy about the ending new information about prosecuting Hupp for Betsy Faria's murder and they're looking into the death of Pam's mother, Mrs. Neumann!  And Mark must have divorced the psychobitch.

Can't believe the prosecutor Leah now Chaney is still walking about town like nobody's business.  Let's see how smug she is come Monday morning when clients leave in droves!  I hope they get her behind bars too, or at least disbarred.

[Cinnabon]

Mark divorced her and is apparently still living in the same house (where Pam killed Louis Gumpemberger) with a new wife. 

[Johnny Dollar]

How Askey is still a licensed attorney is beyond me.  Anyone who hires her must be an idiot. I hope she’s only handling traffic tickets and an occasional real estate closing because she is either the most arrogant person in the world or dumb as a stump. Or she was instructed by a more slightly more competent attorney to stick to her guns due to the current DA opening an investigation into how the case was prosecuted. A truly competent attorney would’ve instructed her to keep her yap shut. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Johnny Dollar

[AZChristian]

I'm reading the book by Joel Schwartz right now.  You're not going to believe this, but Pam is even weirder in a lot of what she said.  Makes me wonder whether her babbling was so nonsensical that no one could have memorized that dialogue in real life.

 

[BetyBee]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I'm reading the book by Joel Schwartz right now.  You're not going to believe this, but Pam is even weirder in a lot of what she said.  Makes me wonder whether her babbling was so nonsensical that no one could have memorized that dialogue in real life.

 

I reserved it from the library. Can't wait to read about even weirder stuff about Pam!

[Spartan Girl]

On 4/16/2022 at 1:07 PM, Crs97 said:

At some point someone pointed me to her Instagram page.  She is another one who just refuses to apologize to Russ.  She said on tv that she was sorry for what he went through, but now they need to move forward.  Not exactly an apology.  She immediately jumps to “I was just a kid” when 17 isn’t exactly a baby.  She then made a comment that she is now a mom and nothing would ever make her turn away from her child, putting the onus back on Russ like he’s the bad guy for not forgiving her.  (I wondered if she thinks that her child could ever decide she is capable of committing the worst crime imaginable and how that would make her feel.)  She also made a post about how everyone else is profiting from her mom’s death while she can’t make rent.  I am sure she was in shock and grieving and totally know she was a victim in all this, but her posts just made me go, “hmm.”

I was glad to see that she acknowledged on Dateline that Russ had the right to feel betrayed because her previous comments seemed efforts to absolve herself from any responsibility.

Wooooow.

I’d also like to add that if the situation was reversed, and this was about a parent who thought the child was guilty yet still refused to apologize even after they were exonerated, nobody would feel sorry for that parent if the child won’t speak to them. Same goes here. I know apologies only go so far, but if that’s her attitude, then Russ had every right to cut her out of his life.

That being said, I get how everyone at some point is led to believe the worst out of even the people we love. It’s a fact of life: sometimes, we trust people we shouldn’t, and don’t trust people we should.

[roughing it]

6 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

How Askey is still a licensed attorney is beyond me.  Anyone who hires her must be an idiot. I hope she’s only handling traffic tickets and an occasional real estate closing because she is either the most arrogant person in the world or dumb as a stump. Or she was instructed by a more slightly more competent attorney to stick to her guns due to the current DA opening an investigation into how the case was prosecuted. A truly competent attorney would’ve instructed her to keep her yap shut. 

Yet if Askey admitted she was wrong, then she would be....wrong.  Some people can't admit to being wrong and will double down on the lie to avoid it.  Or, like you said, someone has advised her to stick to her story due to the new investigation.

[Cheyanne11]

On 4/15/2022 at 8:30 PM, JeanJean said:

The most mind-boggling thing is the way Askey was able to write off the testimony of Russ' 4 (four!) game night friends. If she really believed they were all in on it, why didn't she charge them as accomplices in those three years?

And claiming that Pam killing Louis Gumpenberger had nothing to do with her killing Betsy and that Pam just had some sort of mental breakdown.  She's horrible.

[Cinnabon]

57 minutes ago, roughing it said:

Yet if Askey admitted she was wrong, then she would be....wrong.  Some people can't admit to being wrong and will double down on the lie to avoid it.  Or, like you said, someone has advised her to stick to her story due to the new investigation.

 I wonder why she agreed to do the interview at all. It didn’t do her any favors.

[Carolina Girl]

I'm still very curious about the origin of that money that Pam seemed to be pulling out of the swamp.  I remember her commenting to Mark that the family of that elderly woman had barred her from participating in the funeral arrangements ("and after I got them an 'in' with the most exclusive funeral director!" (which is total BS - he can't be that exclusive if PAM has influence)) - was this ever explained in the series or the Dateline episodes and I missed it.

And come ON NBC / Peacock - the series is over and the Dateline special has aired - get the Faria episodes back in the streaming service lineup!!!

[Johnny Dollar]

I read she may have been involved in money laundering down in Florida. I’d love to see her go up against the drug cartel from a Ozark. 

[IntrovertRed]

Just wondering how Russ was able to pay Joel Schwartz?  Did his family have money or did Joel do it pro bono?

This story is just so wild, and it truly makes me wonder how many people have gotten railroaded like Russ.

And Pam hadn't murdered Louis, would she have gotten away with Betsy’s murder?  Or did they open the Betsy Faria investigation already by that time?  And why was she crying broke when she had all that money in her safe?!  

And is it true that someone anonymously sent Schwartz the crime scene photos?  And that Askey ordered the evidence to be destroyed?  If that’s true, that should be enough to disbar her.  Hope she loses every client and goes broke!

Edited April 19, 2022 by KLJ

[AZChristian]

24 minutes ago, KLJ said:

Just wondering how Russ was able to pay Joel Schwartz?  Did his family have money or did Joel do it pro bono?

I'm in the middle of Joel's book right now.  All he has said (so far) about money is that he had known Russ' cousin 20 years earlier when they worked at the same law firm.  He became convinced from day one that Russ was innocent, and hadn't even waited to get the minimum deposit on a contract to defend him ($800) before he decided to defend him.  

While Pam did steal the $150,000 life insurance policy benefit, Betsy had two other policies that had Russ as beneficiary.  So maybe that's money he had to pay Joel.

[Carolina Girl]

49 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I'm in the middle of Joel's book right now.  All he has said (so far) about money is that he had known Russ' cousin 20 years earlier when they worked at the same law firm.  He became convinced from day one that Russ was innocent, and hadn't even waited to get the minimum deposit on a contract to defend him ($800) before he decided to defend him.  

While Pam did steal the $150,000 life insurance policy benefit, Betsy had two other policies that had Russ as beneficiary.  So maybe that's money he had to pay Joel.

If Joel was accused of her murder, I believe there would have been no insurance payout, and I recall that smarmy DA Askey had him charged pretty quickly.  However, once he was adjudicated not guilty I wonder if the insurance company would have had to pay out.  Anyone know?

[AZChristian]

2 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

If Joel was accused of her murder, I believe there would have been no insurance payout, and I recall that smarmy DA Askey had him charged pretty quickly.  However, once he was adjudicated not guilty I wonder if the insurance company would have had to pay out.  Anyone know?

(I think you mean Russ, not Joel.)

And I believe you are correct, now that I think about it.  There is a possibility of contingent beneficiaries (probably the daughters), but I don't believe we've heard that they got the payout from the other two policies.

It's just odd that Pam and Betsy worked together for years at an insurance company (where they should have been very aware of options like contingent beneficiaries).  And it makes NO sense that Betsy would have listed Pam as the beneficiary rather than a trust for the two girls.  Unless, of course, Pam had bad-mouthed Betsy's daughters AND Russ to lead Betsy to make Pam the beneficiary who would dole out the money for appropriate reasons.  We all know that Pam knew how to work the minds of people.

[Carolina Girl]

3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

(I think you mean Russ, not Joel.)

And I believe you are correct, now that I think about it.  There is a possibility of contingent beneficiaries (probably the daughters), but I don't believe we've heard that they got the payout from the other two policies.

It's just odd that Pam and Betsy worked together for years at an insurance company (where they should have been very aware of options like contingent beneficiaries).  And it makes NO sense that Betsy would have listed Pam as the beneficiary rather than a trust for the two girls.  Unless, of course, Pam had bad-mouthed Betsy's daughters AND Russ to lead Betsy to make Pam the beneficiary who would dole out the money for appropriate reasons.  We all know that Pam knew how to work the minds of people.

I did.  Thanks. 

Another thing I wonder about was Pam's continual claims of "brain damage."  Did she get cut off from disability because there was nothing wrong with her?  

[Cinnabon]

34 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

I did.  Thanks. 

Another thing I wonder about was Pam's continual claims of "brain damage."  Did she get cut off from disability because there was nothing wrong with her?  

I also wonder about this. Was she actually receiving disability, and for what, exactly?

[Jillybean]

On 4/18/2022 at 7:23 AM, Johnny Dollar said:

How Askey is still a licensed attorney is beyond me.  Anyone who hires her must be an idiot. I hope she’s only handling traffic tickets and an occasional real estate closing because she is either the most arrogant person in the world or dumb as a stump. Or she was instructed by a more slightly more competent attorney to stick to her guns due to the current DA opening an investigation into how the case was prosecuted. A truly competent attorney would’ve instructed her to keep her yap shut. 

I was wondering why her attorney would let her run her mouth on Dateline.

[Cozytea]

2 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I was wondering why her attorney would let her run her mouth on Dateline.

Right. That interview did her no favors.  Who in her world thought going on Dateline was a good idea, lol?

[CraftyHazel]

Askey did, indeed, order evidence destroyed.  She was denied.

Askey probably didn’t care if someone with a grain of sense told her not to go on Dateline.  Because she’s right, y’know!!  Russ killed Betsy, all his game night buddies helped him do it, Pam is a sweet, misunderstood victim in all of this, and Gumpenberger’s murder is not connected at all!  We’re all just stupid.  Only Leah Askey and Pam Hupp fight for the truth, y’all.  Sheesh.

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

Askey did, indeed, order evidence destroyed.  She was denied.

Askey probably didn’t care if someone with a grain of sense told her not to go on Dateline.  Because she’s right, y’know!!  Russ killed Betsy, all his game night buddies helped him do it, Pam is a sweet, misunderstood victim in all of this, and Gumpenberger’s murder is not connected at all!  We’re all just stupid.  Only Leah Askey and Pam Hupp fight for the truth, y’all.  Sheesh.

Lightbulb for first sentence; you need another Laugh Like from me.

[roughing it]

18 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

Askey did, indeed, order evidence destroyed.  She was denied.

I thought the assistant (Tina) saw the order come through the fax and shredded it.  That was on the Pam show, not sure if it happened IRL.

Edited April 20, 2022 by roughing it

[fishcakes]

56 minutes ago, roughing it said:

I thought the assistant (Tina) saw the order come through the fax and shredded it.  That was on the Pam show, not sure if it happened IRL.

I might be misremembering some of this, but I read somewhere that the way it happened IRL was that the request originated from the Sheriff’s Department. They routinely send batches of evidence destruction requests to the DA for closed cases. (This part sounds believable.) But according to Askey, the request on the Betsy Faria case was made in error, and then someone in the DA’s office — not her — signed her name. (This part sounds like pants on fire.) I do think Askey signed off on it, but whether she asked the Sheriff to send the request or someone there did it deliberately to coverup their bad investigation both seem equally likely to me. It wasn’t clear what happened after that, but apparently the evidence was not destroyed, so someone was alert enough to realize it was still an open case and they needed to preserve the evidence.

[Carolina Girl]

22 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

I might be misremembering some of this, but I read somewhere that the way it happened IRL was that the request originated from the Sheriff’s Department. They routinely send batches of evidence destruction requests to the DA for closed cases. (This part sounds believable.) But according to Askey, the request on the Betsy Faria case was made in error, and then someone in the DA’s office — not her — signed her name. (This part sounds like pants on fire.) I do think Askey signed off on it, but whether she asked the Sheriff to send the request or someone there did it deliberately to coverup their bad investigation both seem equally likely to me. It wasn’t clear what happened after that, but apparently the evidence was not destroyed, so someone was alert enough to realize it was still an open case and they needed to preserve the evidence.

Yeah, I don't think anyone signed Askey's name - she just got caught when the order was mentioned - and I also think that they would have been in a BIG hurry to get that evidence destroyed.  However, they would have been in a world of hurt for doing so since Russ's case was on appeal.  

Interesting that Askey never had Pam take the stand for the second trial.  Loved how in the show they saw the witnesses in the anteroom dwindle down to just Pam and that POS corrupt cop - the one who went from Arby's to the Faria home at 60 mph and probably blew through every stop sign and light he could get away with.  He's a slimey piece of shit - anyone know if he was fired?  He should have been.  That and the other one that was involved with the DA on a personal level.  

[AZChristian]

On 4/19/2022 at 5:23 AM, KLJ said:

Just wondering how Russ was able to pay Joel Schwartz?  Did his family have money or did Joel do it pro bono?

Having finished the book . . . I'm still not sure how they paid Joel for defending Russ in the criminal trials.  However, after he was found not guilty in the second trial, Joel was his attorney in a civil trial against Askey and all the cops who conspired to railroad Russ while ignoring Pam's actions.  Askey was released from prosecution in the civil trial, but the cops were found guilty, and Russ was awarded over $2,000,000.  I'm pretty sure that case would have been tried with Joel getting a pretty good percentage of any payout as his contingency fee.

I'm pretty sure that Joel made quite a bit from the book he co-wrote as well.

On 4/19/2022 at 6:48 AM, Carolina Girl said:

However, once he was adjudicated not guilty I wonder if the insurance company would have had to pay out.  Anyone know?

The payout on the first two policies (which still showed Russ as the sole beneficiary) was frozen because he had been found guilty and could not profit by receiving the insurance payout.  When he was found not guilty in the second trial, they did have to pay him the full value of those policies.  

Betsy's daughters lost their suit against Pam for the $150,000 State Farm policy in which Pam was named as beneficiary.  After his release from prison, Russ sued State Farm for the $150,000 because the change of beneficiary form was incorrectly filled out, and they did not do due diligence to ensure that the change was done appropriately.  After an investigation, State Farm offered - and Russ accepted - a settlement.  It wasn't for the full $150,000.

One of my favorite things disclosed in the book.  The mug shot that was taken with Pam's neck bandaged after her "suicide" attempt is referred to by many of those involved in the case as "Pam's maxi-pad shot" instead of a mug shot.  LOL.

[Cinnabon]

26 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Having finished the book . . . I'm still not sure how they paid Joel for defending Russ in the criminal trials.  However, after he was found not guilty in the second trial, Joel was his attorney in a civil trial against Askey and all the cops who conspired to railroad Russ while ignoring Pam's actions.  Askey was released from prosecution in the civil trial, but the cops were found guilty, and Russ was awarded over $2,000,000.  I'm pretty sure that case would have been tried with Joel getting a pretty good percentage of any payout as his contingency fee.

I'm pretty sure that Joel made quite a bit from the book he co-wrote as well.

The payout on the first two policies (which still showed Russ as the sole beneficiary) was frozen because he had been found guilty and could not profit by receiving the insurance payout.  When he was found not guilty in the second trial, they did have to pay him the full value of those policies.  

Betsy's daughters lost their suit against Pam for the $150,000 State Farm policy in which Pam was named as beneficiary.  After his release from prison, Russ sued State Farm for the $150,000 because the change of beneficiary form was incorrectly filled out, and they did not do due diligence to ensure that the change was done appropriately.  After an investigation, State Farm offered - and Russ accepted - a settlement.  It wasn't for the full $150,000.

One of my favorite things disclosed in the book.  The mug shot that was taken with Pam's neck bandaged after her "suicide" attempt is referred to by many of those involved in the case as "Pam's maxi-pad shot" instead of a mug shot.  LOL.

How was the beneficiary form incorrectly filled out?

[BC4ME]

6 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

How was the beneficiary form incorrectly filled out?

I'd like to know that also since both Pam and Betsy both worked for insurance companies at one point. I'm getting the impression Pam was pretty stupid in a lot of ways which makes her getting away with Betsy's murder even more amazing. 

[AZChristian]

8 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

How was the beneficiary form incorrectly filled out?

 

1 hour ago, BC4ME said:

I'd like to know that also since both Pam and Betsy both worked for insurance companies at one point. I'm getting the impression Pam was pretty stupid in a lot of ways which makes her getting away with Betsy's murder even more amazing. 

Pam insisted that Betsy meet with her that day (and was SO insistent that Betsy had to decline an invitation from someone else for a social activity) at the library.  Pam wanted them to meet in a public place so they could get someone to witness their signatures.  However, when Betsy filled out the form, she listed Pam's address incorrectly as being in the same town where Betsy lived. 

And then - because Pam had pushed Betsy to be sure to mail the form right away - the postmark was before Betsy's death, but the form was not received and registered by the insurance company until AFTER Betsy's murder.  Russ' lawsuit claimed that by not doing enough research just on that fact alone, they did not do their due diligence to ensure that the circumstances surrounding the death were not questionable.