S03.E06: Graveyard Spiral

[ottoDbusdriver]

Episode Description:

Quote

As Mick and Zeke finally collide with Jace in a grueling match to survive, Ben races against the clock to save his family. When they all converge in an intense battle, the fallout will reveal a massive new clue regarding the fate of Passengers.

Air Date: April 29, 2021 at 9pm EDT

[Maverick]

 I'm.. drama queen much, promo writers?    They make it sound like the factions of the Marvel verse coming together to take on Thanos. 

[rlc]

Two concurrent hours of Manifest is officially two hours too many. Remind me why I’m still watching this? 

[KaveDweller]

I can't believe they killed Grace's brother. The poor guy agrees to help his sister after years of estrangement, lets her and her family stay with him for months, and gets killed as a result. It seemed kind of stupid that they ALL left their hiding place to go talk to Ben. It was also stupid that Michaela went to the lake and gave the drug dealer a car to steal, and stupid that Zeke wasted time pulling Michaela up the cliff instead of rushing to save Cal. Michaela wasn't in danger she could have waited a couple hours. I think Olive was the only one to show any brains.

These callings seems pretty crappy to me. They must always do what the callings say to beat the death date....oh, except when the calling is a test and they have to not do what they say. And if one person in a group messes up everyone gets killed? We are supposed to think this is God and not some evil force?

[shapeshifter]

I almost wish I'd taken notes on all the unintentionally hilarious moments so I wouldn't be considering rewatching for the same purpose. 

I do recall Ben telling his Walking Dead Zombie wife not to shoot the evil brother because she'd have "blood on her hands." I so wanted him to add "as opposed to all that red food coloring."

[Tachi Rocinante]

Olive's reaction was a failed combination of "John Doe has the upper hand" and "The call is coming from inside the house!"

I agree with KaveDweller - she's the only one showing any smarts.

[tennisgurl]

Are The Calling actually supposed to be good? They seem really crappy to me, especially if this thing with the three guys was all supposed to be a "test" but then I guess it had to be all three of them that did the right thing or all three died even if the other two did end up doing the right thing and tried to stop the one guy? That sounds like a pretty evil thing for a supposedly benevolent force to do, especially after all of that. So if one person messes up, everyone has to die? Is that what's supposed to happen to the passengers? Maybe its not God doing this, but someone a bit further down south? Or some particularly smug aliens trying to teach some kind of "lesson" by killing people to make some kind of point? 

I didn't expect them to kill Grace's brother, the poor guy. Why did everyone even need to be in the forest, everyone was being so needlessly dramatic. Not that Jace isn't a threat, but he is just some greasy methhead with a knife, even with the Calling stuff happening. Everyone should have stayed where they were and waited for him to get there and call the cops or something instead of everyone going to where he is and just wandering around. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by tennisgurl

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Where did Jace get the extra bullets for the gun he took from Michaela?  There is noway that the clip held that many bullets.

I know absolutely nothing about guns, but my guess would be that the writers felt it was fair game to assume that Jace was doing some mini-time-travel trips that allowed him to reuse the same bullets. 

I am so glad Pete died so I didn't have to see him and Angela together. He was so obviously cast to be a "meth head." They could have at least cut his hair like in his IMDb pic: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3236212/?ref_=tt_cl_t13 so he'd look less scary. Aren't haircuts mandatory at some point anyway when in custody in jail or prison or secret underground lair (unless religious reasons forbid hair cutting)? At least it looked a tiny bit cleaner right before he died. I guess that should have been a clue.

[CCTC]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I am so glad Pete died so I didn't have to see him and Angela together.

I actually liked the episode and felt bad for Pete and and to some degree Kory.  I thought the actor playing Pete did a good job showing that he had been bossed around by his sociopathic, emotionally and physically abusive brother and was struggling to break free of his control and do that right thing.  That said, I thought the Angelina factor just distracted from his story.  It was not believable that that they were all of a sudden had this great love and would have lived happily ever after.  I really do not need to see her grieve for something that was not real.  Although in some ways they were both so damaged and sheltered in their own ways, it was believable that they would grab on to this fairy tale "love" that would fall apart once the crisis was over and they got to know each other (still I don't need to see Angelina grieve and would not be sad if she left).  I am glad they left  Jace as a pure sociopath.  It would have not been believable if he all of a sudden became conflicted and developed a conscience.  

I like Olive this season.

The Grace and her brother arc was a bit too rushed, but they did have some decent chemistry so I ended up feeling a little bad when he died.  While the show is not know for great writing, the line "you were my little brother, I was supposed to protect you" was effective.  Both his and Pete's death showed that they might be more willing to kill people off.  Not that I want a high body count, but last year there were a few too many times where someone was saved at the last minute.

I still find Cal less annoying then previous seasons.

I like Vance, and I liked when it was revealed he was a good guy, but I do think him being a little more gray on where he is at does add a bit to the drama this season.  

[shapeshifter]

38 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The gun Grace grabbed hadn't been used in years.  I am surprised it was still in good enough shape to shoot without exploding in her hands.

Good to know, heh. I did think it was likely rusted and unlikely able to fire; exploding didn’t occur to me. Or the writers, apparently.
When Grace said, “I never miss. The next shot is going right between your eyes,”   
well, first I laughed.  
Then I thought: Why do cops have to practice at shooting ranges if housewives and restaurateurs are able to pick up a musket once every 20 years and get the perp “right between the eyes” at 20 feet?

[Lostinthehouse]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I know absolutely nothing about guns, but my guess would be that the writers felt it was fair game to assume that Jace was doing some mini-time-travel trips that allowed him to reuse the same bullets. 

I am so glad Pete died so I didn't have to see him and Angela together. He was so obviously cast to be a "meth head." They could have at least cut his hair like in his IMDb pic: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3236212/?ref_=tt_cl_t13 so he'd look less scary. Aren't haircuts mandatory at some point anyway when in custody in jail or prison or secret underground lair (unless religious reasons forbid hair cutting)? At least it looked a tiny bit cleaner right before he died. I guess that should have been a clue.

Yes!!  I didn't mind the long hair, but the grease and stringy locks - how does Angelina fall "in love" with a man who doesn't wash his hair?  Even in jail, prisoners get showers.  Jace had that dirty, stringy hair too.  Total turn off, regardless of his evil nature.  Or was the hair left filthy to emphasize his inward and outward nastiness?  In contrast, the third of resurrected water-spewers (can't remember his name) had a clean, fluffy Afro.

I'm not obsessed with hair usually, but this show obviously uses clean hair / filthy hair to distinguish good people from bad people.

[Dowel Jones]

I'm all in on the 828-themed restaurant.  Well, at least until he died.  How about some menu selections? 

Appetizers - Unibrows and Olives, Cheesy scenes, Recycled Actors

Entrees - Overdone characters, Seafood tails (2 for 1 special!), Impenetrable Plots.  Note:  All specials expire after 84 days.

Drinks - Kool-Aid.  Enough for everyone!

[jabRI]

6 hours ago, Lostinthehouse said:

Yes!!  I didn't mind the long hair, but the grease and stringy locks - how does Angelina fall "in love" with a man who doesn't wash his hair?  Even in jail, prisoners get showers.  Jace had that dirty, stringy hair too.  Total turn off, regardless of his evil nature.  Or was the hair left filthy to emphasize his inward and outward nastiness?  In contrast, the third of resurrected water-spewers (can't remember his name) had a clean, fluffy Afro.

I'm not obsessed with hair usually, but this show obviously uses clean hair / filthy hair to distinguish good people from bad people.

I hate greasy hair on TV, hard to get through an episode.  Yeah, I didn't really get Pete and Angelina as a couple, they didn't even know each other.  

 

For me what stretches the imagination is how Olive (pretty and a good actress!) was able to decipher the papyrus once the missing piece was found..  I mean, it's a difficult metaphorical language that requires some mad skills.  But what do you think it means for the 838 passengers? If they don't all pass the 'callings' test they will all die again? That's the only thing I could think of.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 4/30/2021 at 12:29 AM, shapeshifter said:

I almost wish I'd taken notes on all the unintentionally hilarious moments so I wouldn't be considering rewatching for the same purpose. 

I'm honestly starting to think this show is a comedy -- the slo-mo fight scenes between the meth-heads and the slo-mo gunshot scenes at Tarik's house, the 3 energy waves coming out of Michaela's ass for some reason that was never explained (she may want to have that checked out by her family doctor), the NSA agent that didn't even get a name so you knew he was going to die, the intermittent 'scares' by characters from the dark or around a corner, the appearance of an ever so helpful janitor who just happens to handover the key to the papyrus puzzle, and the bad, bad, bad CGI when the 'shadow' from Jace enveloped Kory and Pete and killed them.

Plus, Jace dying was pretty funny -- all that muddy lake water coming out of him was so badly done.

Michaela should have been much more badly injured -- she fell 30 feet onto solid rock.

Let's not forget the random movers who packed up a 2000 year-old fragile artifact like they were moving a couch.  What was the point of that exactly ?

Oddly, Ben's hand didn't glow even once this episode -- I guess he dialed back on the personal intimate activities.

Why was Cal playing basketball in the middle of the night ?  When Jace got that calling while he was battling Michaela it was dark and the moon was on high ?  And then in Cal's next scene he's playing basketball in broad daylight.

How about the fact that just 2 episodes ago Olive was at her prom on June 8, and the meth-heads only had a couple of days left before their death date.  But in these 2 latest episodes it was clearly fall since there were no leaves on the trees, and everyone was wearing coats appropriate for fall weather.

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Good to know, heh. I did think it was likely rusted and unlikely able to fire; exploding didn’t occur to me. Or the writers, apparently.
When Grace said, “I never miss. The next shot is going right between your eyes,”   
well, first I laughed.  
Then I thought: Why do cops have to practice at shooting ranges if housewives and restaurateurs are able to pick up a musket once every 20 years and get the perp “right between the eyes” at 20 feet?

Plus there's the issue of the bullets that have been sitting in an uninsulated shed for 10 years -- I'm surprised that they even fired or at least misfired.

Thank goodness the Angelina-Pete romance is finally over, and the meth-heads are hopefully gone for good.

[dbklmt]

15 minutes ago, jabRI said:

For me what stretches the imagination is how Olive (pretty and a good actress!) was able to decipher the papyrus once the missing piece was found..  I mean, it's a difficult metaphorical language that requires some mad skills.  But what do you think it means for the 838 passengers? If they don't all pass the 'callings' test they will all die again? That's the only thing I could think of.

I think that with the realization that returnees are judged in groups comes the question: Will all of the passengers of Flight 828 have to work together to conquer their collective death date?

I'm interested in seeing the storm that's coming from the sonic boom that exploded out of Zeke and Michaela when he pulled her up over the cliff edge by her dislocated shoulder which became a stepping stone towards the showdown at Tarik's house and ending with the three souls or whatever they were merging into one whatever it was and ready to be unleashed in the next episode.  Hopefully it will happen.

Edited May 1, 2021 by dbklmt
Edited to correct punctuation and add additional thoughts.

[jabRI]

anyone else think of the LOST smoke monster?

[ottoDbusdriver]

38 minutes ago, jabRI said:

anyone else think of the LOST smoke monster?

Little bit.

[Dowel Jones]

Maybe the spirits from Ghost, too.

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Plus, Jace dying was pretty funny -- all that muddy lake water coming out of him was so badly done.

I maybe mighta been there once or twice on a Saturday night/Sunday morning...

[preeya]

On 4/30/2021 at 3:14 PM, icemiser69 said:

I can't believe Grace abandoned her two children.  What mother that gives a crap about her kids would do that?

This mother:

[Camera One]

 

On 4/30/2021 at 3:03 PM, icemiser69 said:

I didn't really want to watch both episodes all at once.  I can only take so much stupid, but I sucked it up and watched them both anyway.

I felt the exact same way.  2 hours of this was too much.  I finished the first one and came here, and realized I would have to watch the second one too before I read too much.

Quote

Is there ever going to be a show where a reporter isn't characterized as a raging asshole?

With this show, no profession comes off well.  Like that obnoxious "I am always in search of the greater good and he's a unicorn" scientist.  

So Ben can drop in at the top secret 828 Center any time he wants, now?  

I don't get why Vance aka the "government" didn't pull in Jared earlier to find out that the Major was dead.  They needed to fill time the last few episodes or something?  Is the Major's pin going to turn out to be a recording device or something?  Surely, the subplot was meant to go somewhere?

I can't believe Saanvi needed to ask why Vance had to fake the Major's death instead of saying she disappeared.  As said above, they've really destroyed Saanvi's character.

Jared is in charge of the search for Jace and he's all "Protecting you is my first priority" to Michaela, but he had time to follow up on a tip about the Major?  Doesn't a search require some sort of coordination?

Speaking of super bad coordination, Ben knew that Pete needed to be there to stop Jace, so why didn't he coordinate with Michaela to get the lake at the same time?  Instead of Michaela and Zeke arriving early and messing everything up by being incapacitated.  How convenient that Grace's brother blabbed about the 828-themed restaurant which led to the reporter taking pictures which led to someone vandalizing the garage door which led to Grace filing a police complaint which led to Jace hearing about it on Michaela's police radio in her car, which Jace only had because Michaela got to the lake without waiting for Ben and Pete.   Did The Callings™ arrange for all of this?  I guess it's not surprising since The Callings also enabled the methheads to hear Cal's voice to locate him.   Speaking of which, did Jace somehow grab Michaela's keys before she fell off the cliff?  

Poor unnamed government agent.  

As others have said, why did Zeke waste time rescuing Michaela from the cliff?  They took their sweet time instead of rushing to warn people about Jace going after Cal.

There were so many levels of stupid when everyone converged on the cabin that it was more frustrating than exciting.  Ben yelling around for Grace taking them out of their hiding spot, Grace's brother deciding to go back to the shed to get a rifle, Cal urging an unarmed Grace to go out into the line of fire when they heard Grace's brother in danger, Ben in the woods again yelling out for Grace... forget Death Date.  It's more Death Wish.

So The Callings will judge them as a group.  That is so very fair.  Zeke should thank his lucky stars he was in that cave freezing to death alone, eh?  

Edited May 2, 2021 by Camera One

[Arkay]

On 5/1/2021 at 4:06 PM, jabRI said:

anyone else think of the LOST smoke monster?

Yes, and the hatch as well when Grace etc. went into the “headquarters.”

I did enjoy Lost, but mostly for the flashbacks which I found interesting. This show, I don’t know, I think I’m done. It’s too stupid, without the qualities about Lost that I found redeemable. One of which was that it was well-acted.

IMO the acting on Manifest is mostly atrocious. Over-dramatic, silly dialogue, nonsensical plot lines. All the screeching to each other—- Zeke!!!! Mick!!!! Cal!!!! Grace!!!!! Pete!!!!! Jace!!!!! 
 

The “I’ll wait for you forever” love story between two people who didn’t know each other like a day ago or something. The determination for greasy, stringy hair as a signifier of evil.

Of course I didn’t expect a show based on the original premise to be realistic, but it’s the atrocious acting that really makes it hard for me to watch. I did like the janitor lady; she was the only one there with a real New York City accent.

 

[Camera One]

So can Angelina pack up and go home now?  See ya, your only purpose was to make us sorta care when Pete died.  Ditto for Grace's brother.  

I was wondering if Grace would mention her catering business.  Nope.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Camera One

[shapeshifter]

25 minutes ago, Arkay said:

…I did enjoy Lost, but mostly for the flashbacks which I found interesting. This show, I don’t know, I think I’m done. It’s too stupid, without the qualities about Lost that I found redeemable.…   
…Manifest is mostly atrocious. Over-dramatic, silly dialogue, nonsensical plot lines. All the screeching to each other—- Zeke!!!! Mick!!!! Cal!!!! Grace!!!!! Pete!!!!! Jace!!!!!   
The “I’ll wait for you forever” love story between two people who didn’t know each other like a day ago or something. The determination for greasy, stringy hair as a signifier of evil...

I think you just made a case for the writing actually being worse than the acting. 
But I do agree that Lost was better and did have some better actors —but few went on to have Emmys after Lost.

But all the “Walt! Walt! Walt!” is arguably more memorable than the “Zeke!!!! Mick!!!! Cal!!!! Grace!!!!! Pete!!!!! Jace!!!!!” although not necessarily in a good way. 😉

[Arkay]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

I think you just made a case for the writing actually being worse than the acting. 
But I do agree that Lost was better and did have some better actors —but few went on to have Emmys after Lost.

But all the “Walt! Walt! Walt!” is arguably more memorable than the “Zeke!!!! Mick!!!! Cal!!!! Grace!!!!! Pete!!!!! Jace!!!!!” although not necessarily in a good way. 😉

What is wrong with me???? How did I neglect to mention the AWFUL writing???? 🤦‍♀️ Thank you for fixing that for me!

I didn’t mind the Walt! Walt! Walt! because if I recall it was just that one time With the boat and just with the father. But this AWFUL writing has many characters doing this all show long.

[alvajon]

I don’t know which is worse:  The “Callings”, or “Debris”, --such craziness, but fun to watch--a distraction at least from our everyday lives.

[shapeshifter]

22 minutes ago, alvajon said:

I don’t know which is worse:  The “Callings”, or “Debris”, --such craziness, but fun to watch--a distraction at least from our everyday lives.

Based on just the 2 previous episodes of each series, if I had to pick one to continue and one to cancel, Debris would be renewed and Manifest would get the axe. 

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Given the ratings, I am amazed that Manifest is in the process of having double episodes for two consecutive weeks

Hopefully, it makes a difference that this week's double episodes were meant to play together, so was seemingly planned from the writing stage.  It was basically one continuous (albeit convoluted) story, a mid-season finale of sorts ending a number of the threads.  

[JimmyJack]

Where was the “Outdoor scene filmed”  Looking all over the web for s03e06 scene, set, film locations and come up with nothing? I can tell it’s upstate NY, but how far up? What side of the Hudson? 

[willco]

On 5/4/2021 at 5:51 AM, icemiser69 said:

Manifest's ratings are higher.

Given the ratings, I am amazed that Manifest is in the process of having double episodes for two consecutive weeks, and the much higher rated Law & Order: Organized Crime is off the schedule for two weeks. 

I can barely tolerate Law & Order: Organized Crime.  Over all I consider it a lousy show with no likable characters.

A distraction?  Yes, but both series are horribly depressing.   At least they are both works of fiction, and not real world depressing shit.  This series could use a dose of sarcasm, much like last week's episode of Debris had.  Recurring characters that aren't constant Debby Downers would be a nice change.

 

I used to follow the ratings a lot closer but I kind of drifted off to other things, so I haven't looked for a while. I just looked at your link-- good grief those are horrible demo numbers ! And horrible total viewers numbers, too. 5 million for the number 1 show is SO bad, compared to what they used to be. No wonder shows have to run ads every 5 minutes during a show ( or it seems like it anyway !)

[chlban]

On 5/4/2021 at 2:51 AM, icemiser69 said:

Manifest's ratings are higher.

Given the ratings, I am amazed that Manifest is in the process of having double episodes for two consecutive weeks, and the much higher rated Law & Order: Organized Crime is off the schedule for two weeks. 

I can barely tolerate Law & Order: Organized Crime.  Over all I consider it a lousy show with no likable characters.

 

 

Agree. I actually scheduled it on my DVR and canceled it after the first episode. What a waste. I don't get the double episodes either.

[mythoughtis]

Well? given the number of passengers on the original flight, my guess is that the entire group will now die on the death date.  There’s no way ALL of them will pass their ‘last trial’.  The statistics aren’t im their favor nor will they all be able to show up for said trial at the same time and place anyway.  We already know the chess master is a thief. 

[akr]

I think it's a leap to assume that the rules that applied to the group of three will also apply to the passengers. There's no particular logic to anything in this show, for starters, but also it would be hopeless to get them all to do whatever it is they're supposed to do, and as a plot direction that doesn't work well. I don't see this show becoming some subtle examination of how people come to terms with fate.

Perhaps the three's fates were intertwined in this particular way because they were coconspirators in a crime when they died (if I remember it right). (I mean, who the hell knows, but in general I just think anything these characters are currently certain of is bound to be proven to be incorrect, or at least just a part of the truth. That, ultimately, is the plot device that keeps this show going. They're trying to do the right thing, they're trying to figure things out, and they don't know enough about anything to get any of it quite right.) 

[Biggie B]

On 5/2/2021 at 2:59 AM, Camera One said:

Poor unnamed government agent.  

He might as well have been wearing a red shirt.

[Biggie B]

On 5/1/2021 at 3:49 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Plus, Jace dying was pretty funny -- all that muddy lake water coming out of him was so badly done.

Complete rip off of the scene in the "Family Guy" episode in which Brian spews endlessly after learning that Ida, with whom he had sex, is actually Quagmire's father.

[stonehaven]

I have been watching the series over the past month and yes, a lot has been worthy of eye rolls but the whole notion of "to save us we must save everyone" earned a huge "Oh come on!!" from me.

Free will is involved and if you are trying to tell everyone they have to conform to the idea they must save each other to save themselves. It just won't happen. Even if in the end, the writers managed to pull off the feat of all the 828ers working together, it would still lack any credibility..This show is a fantasy but in order to root for the fantasy, there must be some sense of reality and there IS none.

Anyone who lives their lives in reality sees the selfishness in themselves, in their spouses, their kids and their co-workers. Hell, even in Hollywood, the narcissism that runs deep is as old as the hills. How in the world can the writers expect the audience to believe and root for these people when their alleged solution is beyond the pale? The only way this notion would have worked is if the numbers on the plane would have been smaller and the theory was introduced back at the end of Season 1. 

I may still watch just because I') but I'm almost done (even with loose ends left) but I'm certainly not rooting for any more seasons.

[QuantumMechanic]

On 5/1/2021 at 6:57 AM, shapeshifter said:

Good to know, heh. I did think it was likely rusted and unlikely able to fire; exploding didn’t occur to me. Or the writers, apparently.
When Grace said, “I never miss. The next shot is going right between your eyes,”   
well, first I laughed.  
Then I thought: Why do cops have to practice at shooting ranges if housewives and restaurateurs are able to pick up a musket once every 20 years and get the perp “right between the eyes” at 20 feet?

A hunting rifle, not a musket. And rifles are much more accurate than pistols. The longer barrel really matters.