S18.E03: Pan African Portland

[catrice2]

On 4/18/2021 at 3:28 PM, CatWarmer said:

Yes, and I think Blais just meant literally the food looked too white, not White, and not that it didn't represent Black cuisine. He hadn't tasted it yet, and probably realized how others at the table were eyeing it.  It was somewhat of a play on words, although apparently up for misinterpretation.  

Thank you!!! I thought it was a PUN, a play on words because it was mashed potatoes and something else that was not colorful, but it may have been taken in both ways. 

I also as a vegetarian and very picky eater would not eat 90% of the things that are presented on Top Chef, but I appreciate learning about them. I don't think of one style of cuisine as better or worse than any other, or that when they focus on one that that they are putting down another. 

Food, like fashion , music and many other things go in cycles as to what is "trendy."  I hardly think that most people watching Top Chef are now thinking less of any other type of food just because there was a focus on different flavors. 

I think just as much as anything one thing they are correcting is making sure that their judges are introduced to all kinds of foods and have some appreciation for it and how it should be cooked and how it tastes.   I know in the past there have been a few times when some of them have said, " this is the first time I've had x..." and when you really think about it, in the challenges where they say, "cook from the soul," or "show me who you are, or your point of view," if they are not familiar with the foods or the flavor profiles of the foods, then how is that even judged fairly?   And  I am not talking about just Pan African or any particular type, just in general.  I think they are also making an effort to have more diverse judges, and not just ethnicity, but gender and specialties.   It is possible if I always have classically French trained judges they may have an unconscious bias against any food that is not that type of food if they have never stepped outside their specialty. 

Most cooking shows over the years have only focused on certain types of cooking styles and flavors and many chefs have always been at a disadvantage.  There was a time when Southern cooking was frowned upon, and then it became popular with Paula Deen and others and all of a sudden it was trendy....at one point you were called a "simple" chef for certain dishes like collard greens, then all of a sudden people were praising that very same item. 

I think that some of the chefs are a little surprised that they have not stepped outside of whatever their specialty is, whether it was French, Italian, etc. and are finding out that many of the dishes and flavors are very similar and that if you are a great chef it doesn't matter what you are cooking, you can figure out a way to cook it well.  The words "soul" have also been used before on this show, in relation to many different types of food. I think in some instances you could substitute authenticity. 

 I think these days unfortunately sometimes honest attempts to evolve and make change are labeled as virtue signaling and pandering because sadly it is frequently hard to tell the difference.  I think any efforts to be more inclusive should be appreciated, regardless of the reason for it. This show has been on a long time, in part maybe they thought it was time to change up some things.  I guess my question would be were they implying other types of foods were inferior or "souless" by not including them for years?  Who were they pandering to then? 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by catrice2

[HeShallBMySquishy]

Brit-tanny deserved to go, just for those horrid tattoos and the extra 'n' in her name. I know it shouldn't, but I get really annoyed with people who throw random letters into very common names. Who knew there were nineteen different ways to spell names like Brittany or Michael or Braden or Karen? (An exaggeration, but still.)

On 4/15/2021 at 7:33 PM, novhappy said:

I’m never gonna get the names straight they barely flash them up, unreadable!  The elimination challenge they barely showed the food. 
it’s hard to connect the fish w the chef when there’s so many and they’re flashing the names and not showing the plates on the table. 

THIS. It drives me nuts! Last episode, when Shota and Avishar presented their dish in the Quickfire, the glamour shot of their finished dish was onscreen for all of two seconds. And during the EC this episode, there was a black gentleman who was commenting on a dish, and his name (Eldridge Broussard) flashed by in one bloody second. It makes you wonder why go to the effort of creating a graphic to identify a customer and their profession, if the editors are just going to cut to the next shot after one second?

At least on Top Chef Canada, the names of the chefs, their titles, the restaurant(s) they work at (or own), and the glamour shots with the all ingredients listed, last longer than 1-2 seconds.

On 4/16/2021 at 2:18 PM, dleighg said:

I follow Bravo on FB, and they posted something about this episode. Oh my the pearl clutching from a bunch of commenters on this comment! And "why is there so much politics on this show now?" (brief mention of BLM). And I'm not encouraging more discussion on BLM, just noting the apparent strong opinions this episode elicited in the broad Top Chef watching world, at least among those who put comments on Bravo posts on FB.

I'm guessing that those types of comments are likely because people are tired of being preached to, especially on shows like Top Chef or The Amazing Race or Project Runway or Big Brother or Top Chef Canada, which premiered last night. On that show, everyone was asked "What's your brand?" and had to present a dish, and unsurprisingly, a lot of it leaned political.

I used to be really big on award shows (the Grammys, Oscars, Emmys, etc.), but definitely soured on them in the last decade when every single person who won an award had to stand up and make some grandstanding political speech about the injustices of the world. (It made me long for the days when people would just thank their agents and publicists.) Sometimes, people just want an escape, to forget the world, to watch pretty food being served, or pretty garments being made, or pretty people squawking about getting blood on their hands.

Just a guess, though. Or, it very well could be the likeliest answer: that Facebook is nothing more than the cesspool of human filth that it always was. ;)

[staphdude]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:02 PM, Rai said:

The idea that somehow it sets up white chefs to fail by pushing into west African flavors for a challenge is pretty ridiculous, especially as Kwame points out, everyone's been eating them already, they just didn't know it. American Black soul food, the Afro influences in Latin and Caribbean cuisine, etc. their comfort zone, and if they don't, they clearly haven't been watching the show. As is, I feel like they were more afraid to tackle a dessert in the Quickfire than they were to use the inspiration of west African cuisine.

Off-topic: shout-out to Kwame and his wearing of nail polish. I actually didn't notice it, but I'll look for it now!

 

On 4/18/2021 at 7:48 AM, NYCFree said:

 

There isn’t a finite amount of food appreciation, that if the show focuses a few times on African cuisine, there is not less love available for European/American food.

Adding knowledge of other cultures takes nothing away from the already familiar cultures.

 

On 4/18/2021 at 1:14 PM, Cheyanne11 said:

t's great that you've been eating this food that long, but introducing different cuisines to the masses isn't, as far as I'm concerned, a bad thing--or something that should be derided.

And they're doing a fruit challenge next week, so I think it's kind of jumping to conclusions that they're "only" doing trends that they somehow feel white guilt about.

There was such glee about the african spin on these dishes and then the winner cooked - Curried Goat, Crispi Roti with Fondant Potatoes & Green Pepper Sauce. To me this demonstrates the Indian influence on the cuisine of the west indies. My relatives in Trindad straight up served me those dishes and they derive from deep Indian roots. There are of course other influences but it seemed funny to me...

[MajorWoody]

A few late observations:

Dial back the SJW stuff. A little is fine. This is a cooking show, not a rectifying history show. As Tom always says, it comes down to the food. I have never walked into a restaurant and demanded to know the chef’s POV, or life experiences. 
 

What is it with the lightning fast blurbs they put on screen, with the chef’s name and some info, then remove them after 1 second? Also, has anyone else noticed the color schemes they use with the chef’s names often blend into the background colors, making them unreadable?

 

 

[Cotypubby]

It sure is funny how for years they’ve had episodes spotlighting French, Italian, American Southern, Japanese, etc. & other type cuisines with nary a complaint, but you have one episode featuring African food and suddenly its all “Pandering, pandering, pandering, liberal white guilt SJWs setting up white chefs to lose!”

Edited April 21, 2021 by Cotypubby

[HighQueenEB]

43 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

It sure is funny how for years they’ve had episodes spotlighting French, Italian, American Southern, Japanese, etc. & other type cuisines with nary a complaint, but you have one episode featuring African food and suddenly its all “Pandering, pandering, pandering, liberal white guilt SJWs setting up white chefs to lose!”

Well, do you see drone footage of street murals with political slogans during those episodes?  I can't say, in years past, when we've had episodes featuring Japanese food a discussion about Japanese war atrocities or episodes featuring French food allusions to French colonial transgressions (of which there are many), etc.  That's where the "pandering" comes in, and it's not wrong to call that out for what it is. 

Of course, had TC's producers chosen to ignore the BLM movement in an episode featuring pan-African cuisine in a city that had been all over the news due to those protests last summer/fall when they were filming, then I'm sure they would have been accused of pretending the issue doesn't exist at all.  Which, if you think about it, should be deeply offensive, because it's tokenism and pandering at its very worst, but TC's producers are stuck in the proverbial catch-22 dilemma - either acknowledge it in some way and be accused (rightly) of pandering, or disregard it entirely and be accused (rightly) of trying to gloss over the protests.

Edited April 21, 2021 by HighQueenEB

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, HeShallBMySquishy said:

I'm guessing that those types of comments are likely because people are tired of being preached to, especially on shows like Top Chef or The Amazing Race or Project Runway or Big Brother or Top Chef Canada, which premiered last night. On that show, everyone was asked "What's your brand?" and had to present a dish, and unsurprisingly, a lot of it leaned political.

Yes....

4 hours ago, MajorWoody said:

Dial back the SJW stuff. A little is fine. This is a cooking show, not a rectifying history show. As Tom always says, it comes down to the food. I have never walked into a restaurant and demanded to know the chef’s POV, or life experiences.

And yes.  I am one that feels it should be all about the food on a show like this, period.  Let's stop making it about how the food relates to one's family, cultural background, poor childhood, politics, whatever.  All it does is divide and alienate people and we've all had enough of that already. 

1 hour ago, Cotypubby said:

It sure is funny how for years they’ve had episodes spotlighting French, Italian, American Southern, Japanese, etc. & other type cuisines with nary a complaint, but you have one episode featuring African food and suddenly its all “Pandering, pandering, pandering, liberal white guilt SJWs setting up white chefs to lose!”

I personally love it that they keep showcasing African cuisine, it's the subtle spin they in this episode that bothered me.  It felt like they were purposely trying to make people feel guilty and/or piss them off by including things like Blaise's stupid comment.  But like I said above, that only serves to further alienate and divide people.  The people who are the targets of this get the message and it only either makes them dig their heels in or feel guilty and unworthy.  Inclusivity means everyone should feel good and we all win in the end.  But this didn't feel that way.  When they have showcased other ethnic cuisines they haven't come across that way.

[Cotypubby]

Blaise’s comment was a joke because the food was white colored and it was a play on the words white and White. 🙄

[MajorWoody]

9 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

It sure is funny how for years they’ve had episodes spotlighting French, Italian, American Southern, Japanese, etc. & other type cuisines with nary a complaint, but you have one episode featuring African food and suddenly its all “Pandering, pandering, pandering, liberal white guilt SJWs setting up white chefs to lose!”

 

They have highlighted African food over the years without reverting to using it as cudgel. Taking the cast to various African style eateries was treated as if the chefs were all oblivious to Africa style cooking, treating them and the viewing audience like idiots. Are you OK with them treating these contestants, allegedly some of the best chefs in the country, as being completely ignorant of the food of an entire continent?

 

Also, what was the chance one the chefs would actually say he or she didn’t like the food at one of those places? Chefs have said that in past seasons at some famous restaurants. 

Finally, I’d like to see them highlight a chef who lost his or her restaurant to those “enlightened” looters plaguing Portland the last eight months, 

Edited April 21, 2021 by MajorWoody

[FinnishViewer]

1 minute ago, MajorWoody said:

Are you OK with them treating these contestants, allegedly some of the best chefs in the country, as being completely ignorant of the food of an entire continent?

Tom did not know what fufu is a couple seasons ago when Eric Adjepong made it for the Muhammad Ali challenge.

[MajorWoody]

3 minutes ago, FinnishViewer said:

Tom did not know what fufu is a couple seasons ago when Eric Adjepong made it for the Muhammad Ali challenge.

Not knowing a single item is not the same as not being aware of the various foods and styles of an entire continent. 

[Cotypubby]

2 hours ago, MajorWoody said:

Taking the cast to various African style eateries was treated as if the chefs were all oblivious to Africa style cooking, treating them and the viewing audience like idiots.

They often go on trips to various restaurants to sample different types of cuisines and they always comment about how amazing the food is. Like once or twice every season. I remember one time they went to a whole bunch of Southern barbecue type places. So that means I guess they were treating the audience like idiots who don’t know what barbecue is? Seriously, there was absolutely nothing different about this episode compared to many previous ones other than the culture of the food represented.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Cotypubby

[watchingtvaddict]

Haven’t read the comments yet. But, as someone from Africa I was so annoyed they billed this challenge as “Pan African” when they really meant “African diaspora in the Americas”. They only had an appearance from one restaurant that was “West African” and then the other restaurants were based in the Americas. Maybe a small thing to be annoyed over, but I was really hoping to see African food highlighted. 

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, MajorWoody said:

They have highlighted African food over the years without reverting to using it as cudgel. Taking the cast to various African style eateries was treated as if the chefs were all oblivious to Africa style cooking, treating them and the viewing audience like idiots. Are you OK with them treating these contestants, allegedly some of the best chefs in the country, as being completely ignorant of the food of an entire continent?

That's a very good point.  And the way Britanny (sp?) felt about herself afterward was regrettable, but IMO a result of what you say above.  The attitude seemed to want to make them feel guilty for being ignorant, but truthfully even if they are somewhat ignorant they shouldn't be treated in a way that makes them feel shame for it.  I have in the past noticed that kind of attitude when they had a French food challenge and ethnic, non-classically trained chefs struggled.  It's not right either way.

[Rai]

Food writing has become a lot more thoughtful in the past decade as marginalized chefs have started having platforms previously denied to them. As such, the conversations around food have deepened and airing issues doesn't create them, it just makes them harder to ignore.

And I'm not going to defend Richard's comment. He was not making a pun. He meant the food was too caucasian, and it was a cringey joke. I would say both he and Gabriel represented the well-meaning but pandering view that can be problematic. Fortunately, that was well balanced by the way Kiki and Dawn especially talked about their dishes. Total pandering by TC would've centered Richard's and Gabriel's comments and made the narrative of the episode around them discovering NEW things about ETHNIC food and their HEARTS. Instead, they were comments on the fringe of the main exploration. That's a solid crafting of story on the producers' part.

I agree with the comment that TC is damned if they do, damned if they don't, so I'm glad they went for it and stuck to their established formula of highlighting a cuisine for the chefs to all draw inspiration from for one challenge. Perfect is the enemy of good, after all.

[watchingtvaddict]

3 hours ago, MajorWoody said:

 

They have highlighted African food over the years without reverting to using it as cudgel. Taking the cast to various African style eateries was treated as if the chefs were all oblivious to Africa style cooking, treating them and the viewing audience like idiots. Are you OK with them treating these contestants, allegedly some of the best chefs in the country, as being completely ignorant of the food of an entire continent?

 

 

I want to add out of the 3 bottom chefs 2 were of African/ African diaspora background and didn’t do their home cooking justice. Why talk down to chefs about not knowing how to deal with African flavors and spices? I always feel like chefs with the “home advantage” can be caught on the back foot because they are so emotionally invested in their dishes.

I knew Brittany was going home because I was sure they wouldn’t send a black chef home for taking about their struggle finding their voice in the kitchen while having to cook colonial food (but maybe I’m just cynical about the pandering in this episode). 

Edited April 21, 2021 by watchingtvaddict
I said emotionally too many times

[Calamity Jane]

I loved last season, great people, great cooking, no “villains.”  This season looks to be similar, and I’m loving it. I don’t watch this show for interpersonal drama. If I want that, I’ll watch Hell’s Kitchen. To me, this is entertaining and informative, the focus is really on the food, not on personality. 

It is heartening that the quality of the participants has not just held but even improved over the years, a real indication of regard from the cooking world, it seems to me. I look forward to the show every year. Not many shows I can say that about. 

[dleighg]

11 minutes ago, Calamity Jane said:

loved last season, great people, great cooking, no “villains.”  This season looks to be similar, and I’m loving it. I don’t watch this show for interpersonal drama. If I want that, I’ll watch Hell’s Kitchen. To me, this is entertaining and informative, the focus is really on the food, not on personality. 

yes, there really doesn't seem to be any "cannon fodder" this year, and they are all so nice to one another. This is absolutely one of my favorite shows on tv. I watch a few other reality shows (Proj. Runway, Below Deck (don't hate me)) and they really dial up the drama, and the certainly the folks on BD don't have any special skills!

[catrice2]

10 hours ago, watchingtvaddict said:

I want to add out of the 3 bottom chefs 2 were of African/ African diaspora background and didn’t do their home cooking justice. Why talk down to chefs about not knowing how to deal with African flavors and spices? I always feel like chefs with the “home advantage” can be caught on the back foot because they are so emotionally invested in their dishes.

I knew Brittany was going home because I was sure they wouldn’t send a black chef home for taking about their struggle finding their voice in the kitchen while having to cook colonial food (but maybe I’m just cynical about the pandering in this episode). 

And what "home advantage" would that be?  Not every African American, Black ( or however they want to identify) chef grew up eating whatever foods you consider to be "home cooking." One of those chefs clearly said he was trained as a classical French chef if I am not mistaken, and I have never heard anyone in my life complaining about cooking colonial food. In fact I would bet most people in this country have never had the opportunity to eat some of the foods types that were highlighted this episode for a variety of reasons  and I doubt some of the chefs, regardless of background, have either, unless they made a point of seeking it out.  I believe that is the point they are trying to make that chefs- in particular ones who want to be TOP CHEF, should have a working knowledge of all types of food, not just one specialty as it has been in the past, regardless of what that specialty is.  I remember Marcus Samuelsson talking about growing up Swedish and having to seek out information about food from his culture.  Personally I think they should do more with Vegan and Vegetarian cooking....or would that be pandering to PETA? 

Maybe Brittany was sent home because her food was the worst?  I believe in the judging they even praised parts of Kiki's dish. 

The producers made the decision to shoot in Portland and stuck to it when all the unrest started, so I am sure parts of it will be woven into the season.  If people disagree with that choice, they have a choice too....notify the production of your displeasure, or stop watching. 

That is the choice that many people of color have had for YEARS when they were either not represented in media and entertainment, or represented in the worst possible light or with stereotypes.  The third choice is create/control your own show or narrative. It is odd how people had no opinion when that occurred, but now that there is inclusiveness it is pandering, guilt, etc.  instead of just being humans who are sharing and acknowledging different stories and experiences.....but maybe that is too simple. 

I also did not see guilt in the chefs that acknowledged their lack of information, but REGRET that they had not tried it sooner, and relief that they could connect some of the foods and flavors to their own lives...with the realization that food, is not all that different, just like people....

Edited April 22, 2021 by catrice2

[HighQueenEB]

11 hours ago, watchingtvaddict said:

I want to add out of the 3 bottom chefs 2 were of African/ African diaspora background and didn’t do their home cooking justice. Why talk down to chefs about not knowing how to deal with African flavors and spices? I always feel like chefs with the “home advantage” can be caught on the back foot because they are so emotionally invested in their dishes.

I knew Brittany was going home because I was sure they wouldn’t send a black chef home for taking about their struggle finding their voice in the kitchen while having to cook colonial food (but maybe I’m just cynical about the pandering in this episode). 

I also figured Brittany was going home because of the reasons you outlined above, but, in addition to that - she was in the bottom last week with Sasha and barely escaped the PYKAG from Padma.  So, I figured she was a goner for multiple reasons, all of which were pretty obvious from the editing of the episode.

[catrice2]

15 hours ago, MajorWoody said:

 

They have highlighted African food over the years without reverting to using it as cudgel. Taking the cast to various African style eateries was treated as if the chefs were all oblivious to Africa style cooking, treating them and the viewing audience like idiots. Are you OK with them treating these contestants, allegedly some of the best chefs in the country, as being completely ignorant of the food of an entire continent?

 

Also, what was the chance one the chefs would actually say he or she didn’t like the food at one of those places? Chefs have said that in past seasons at some famous restaurants. 

Finally, I’d like to see them highlight a chef who lost his or her restaurant to those “enlightened” looters plaguing Portland the last eight months, 

Could it be that they actually ASKED them what they knew of different types of foods and were told they didn't know much? It seems that quite a few of them said on camera that they had limited knowledge.  Or it it is a SHOW where they were not actually teaching the contestants but teaching the audience.  I would bet a vast part of the viewing audience as well as quite a few of the chefs didn't know about some of the information about the food, but what is wrong with that? 

Also, welcome to the world of a life long learner.  I am more than willing to admit that I am not the expert on everything and when someone with more knowledge than I have speaks about something, or speaks passionately about something I can  understand that it is not about me and be quiet and just listen without trying to assert my own knowledge in the moment. And for the things that I don't know I don't feel ignorant when someone takes the time to explain it to me, I am just grateful for the knowledge. Things change and evolve all the time and even on subjects that I might be knowledgeable someone can always tell me something new. 

As for saying they did not like the food.....why couldn't they, and who knows they may have and it just didn't make the edit?  Or maybe they did like the food, or could at least s appreciate it for what it was even if it wasn't a favorite? You make it sound like just because a restaurant is famous all of their food has to be good.  Everyone has different tastes.  

Sounds like you have a show that you can pitch to some production companies.  Good luck. I am sure that many people would love to see it.  Robert Irvine has been doing something similar on Food Network. 

Additionally although it may not make sense to walk into restaurants demanding information from the chef every competition food show I've watched in the last 10 years or so demands the chef's culinary point of view, talks about what motivates them, and tries to get some cheesy personal stories out of them....

[watchingtvaddict]

4 hours ago, catrice2 said:

And what "home advantage" would that be?  Not every African American, Black ( or however they want to identify) chef grew up eating whatever foods you consider to be "home cooking." One of those chefs clearly said he was trained as a classical French chef if I am not mistaken, and I have never heard anyone in my life complaining about cooking colonial food.

The assumed home advantage is that they're familiar with the spices and flavor profiles of the food they're supposed to be inspired by and will have an easier time creating dishes.Both of the African American/ black chefs in the bottom did grow up with the food so,  we aren't talking about a Marcus Samuelsson situation. 

[Cotypubby]

9 minutes ago, watchingtvaddict said:

Both of the African American/ black chefs in the bottom did grow up with the food

And they were in the bottom. Some “home advantage” there. 🙄

Edited April 22, 2021 by Cotypubby

[Nordly Beaumont]

1 hour ago, HighQueenEB said:

I also figured Brittany was going home because of the reasons you outlined above, but, in addition to that - she was in the bottom last week with Sasha and barely escaped the PYKAG from Padma.  So, I figured she was a goner for multiple reasons, all of which were pretty obvious from the editing of the episode.

I thought she was a goner when she used a store-bought cookie on her dessert and called it "a garnish." I knew she was a goner when, at judges table, Tom asked something like "What do you love about cooking" and her answer began with a very long "Uuuuuuuummmmm..." I have no doubt that she's a fantastic chef, she's just not good at the game called Top Chef.

If Brittanny had more time to cook the sauce with the coconut cream and what ever acid she hit it with, is it possible the flavors would have had more depth? 

I also found it super odd that Maria was in the bottom of the quickfire because she served too big a serving. That's a first, right?

We had Top Scallop and Top Carrot - is this season Top Plantain? I think we've seen them every episode so far.

I love the top Dawn is wearing in her talking head interviews.

[watchingtvaddict]

9 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

And they were in the bottom. Some “home advantage” there. 🙄

Exactly, I am saying it is NOT an advantage. 😅

[stewedsquash]

3 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

I also found it super odd that Maria was in the bottom of the quickfire because she served too big a serving. That's a first, right?

I agree that it was odd and didn't Tom also say that her dish at the EC of this episode was a big one? I don't think he said it in a critical manner but it was noted. If I remember correctly he said he was getting full while eating her serving and there was still so much on her plate and it was so good that he wanted to keep eating but couldn't.  I thought it was wrong at the QF to ding her for the size. If they had said give us a bite size sample then yeah, but all they said was it had to have at least three layers. And I think hers was the only one that was really layered in the dish and not just things "plopped" on top of each other.  I do remember that she and Chris had the two offerings that I wanted to try.

 

[roctavia]

2 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

I agree that it was odd and didn't Tom also say that her dish at the EC of this episode was a big one? I don't think he said it in a critical manner but it was noted. If I remember correctly he said he was getting full while eating her serving and there was still so much on her plate and it was so good that he wanted to keep eating but couldn't.  I thought it was wrong at the QF to ding her for the size. If they had said give us a bite size sample then yeah, but all they said was it had to have at least three layers. And I think hers was the only one that was really layered in the dish and not just things "plopped" on top of each other.  I do remember that she and Chris had the two offerings that I wanted to try.

 

I thought Tom was full just because they had already tried so many other dishes... but here was so good he wanted to keep eating.

[stewedsquash]

4 minutes ago, roctavia said:

I thought Tom was full just because they had already tried so many other dishes... but here was so good he wanted to keep eating.

 That was my take also but I do think he commented on the portion size of the serving. I want to say I noticed it because of the portion size being an issue in the QF. I may need to quickly re-watch sometime to know for sure. Yep, it will go round and round in my head, wondering.

Edited April 22, 2021 by stewedsquash
added size

[Nordly Beaumont]

3 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

That was my take also but I do think he commented on the portion size of the serving. I want to say I noticed it because of the portion size being an issue in the QF. I may need to quickly re-watch sometime to know for sure. Yep, it will go round and round in my head, wondering.

I just happen to be re-watching right now and I can tell you Tom's exact words: 

"The big problem I have right now is that this is the last dish and I'm full, I can't eat another bite, and I just want to keep eating this. The sauce is, this bean puree, is so deep, it's aerated and fluffy." 

So no comment on the portion size, just how full he was and how much he wished he could keep eating.

[stewedsquash]

Thank you for taking the re-watch off of me! I really didn't want to watch again.I must have been loopy during my first viewing. Not the first time that happened. lol  

[FinnishViewer]

19 hours ago, MajorWoody said:

Not knowing a single item is not the same as not being aware of the various foods and styles of an entire continent. 

Keep in mind, that it's not just for the chefstestants but also for the viewers. I doubt an average viewer of Top Chef is aware of all food culture around the world.

[Fukui San]

Thinking about this episode one of the things I’m struck with is that as far as I can remember, this is the first challenge in 18 seasons to focus on African (diaspora) food, and the first time the guest judges had that in their background. Am I forgetting something? Let’s not forget this franchise had a challenge in an actual Southern plantation not too long ago.

I went to college in Portland in the 90s and one of the more adventurous places I went to was the Ethiopian restaurant Jarras, where they serve you their stews on top of their spongy pancake-like flatbreads that you use to pick up the food. That would seem ideal for a Quickfire. 

I’m trying to figure out what the next biggest culinary blind spot is for Top Chef.  I don’t think there’s ever been a Middle Eastern challenge in the show’s history, has there?

Edited April 22, 2021 by Fukui San

[catrice2]

11 hours ago, watchingtvaddict said:

The assumed home advantage is that they're familiar with the spices and flavor profiles of the food they're supposed to be inspired by and will have an easier time creating dishes.Both of the African American/ black chefs in the bottom did grow up with the food so,  we aren't talking about a Marcus Samuelsson situation. 

How do you know they grew up with it?  One said he was classically trained  in French and that he "knew of" some Haitian dishes.  They may(or may not have) grown up with some SOUTHERN cooking, but specific Pan African profiles?  It is likely something they sought out after they learned more about cooking,   You can be inspired by a lot of things without actually having an in depth knowledge of it.  Also many people want to assimilate so they often don't cook foods from their heritage for fear of being different. 

I have a Hispanic friend who said his parents did not teach him Spanish or make traditional foods because they did not want him and his siblings to be perceived as different from their friends.  Assumptions are the things that get people in trouble.  Just because Kiki was sharing about how she felt about only cooking certain things did not necessarily mean she grew up eating every Traditional African dish there is.  Maybe those closest to the background of her family and father but that may be very different dishes than the next POC.  I have not heard of over half of the things that Kwame and Gregory were talking about.  There are different dialects of the same language, just like there are different flavors in regional dishes from the same country. 

To another point about not sending home a person of color...since there were two chefs with a "home advantage" in the bottom, could it be that the judges just considered the food?  Are we now questioning the integrity of the judges, and why is that only a question when people of color are involved? 

Edited April 22, 2021 by catrice2

[catrice2]

11 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

And they were in the bottom. Some “home advantage” there. 🙄

I think the problem is assuming that the judges or anybody else considered that there was a "home advantage" just based upon race or ethnicity.   I could be full Japanese and make terrible Japanese food....especially if that is not something I was trained in.  Just because my parents may have served it to me while I was growing up would not make me an expert in it, and no one should assume that.   

Additionally just because a chef THINKS they are great at cooking something doesn't mean they are.  I think it will be proved that Chris (I think that is the one in the bottom three) is not as good a chef as he thinks he is....

[roctavia]

The comments while they were eating the food seemed to back up who was sent home... I was not at all surprised to see Brittanny in the bottom and even less surprised she was sent home, solely based on what they had to say about her food during dinner and then during judging. 

She was also on the chopping block last week and to me didn't seem very confident in her cooking... 

[sharifa70]

21 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

I went to college in Portland in the 90s and one of the more adventurous places I went to was the Ethiopian restaurant Jarras, where they serve you their stews on top of their spongy pancake-like flatbreads that you use to pick up the food.

I also went to college in Portland (early oughts but I was a “non-traditional” older student), and also went to Jarras a couple of times! It’s gone now, alas, but I liked it. I’m not a fan of the flatbread (too sour for my taste), but I liked everything else. There was a mom & pop Ethiopian place on MLK that was delicious as well, though I still wasn’t a fan of the spongy bread. 

...Well, dangit, now I want Ethiopian food, but I live in the Metro area rather than in Portland proper and delivery isn’t an option. <shakes fist at covid>

I agree that Britanny was doomed as soon as she admitted to not really having an answer to what she loves about cooking. I’m not a professional (and my bakes fail more than they succeed), but even I could have answered that question.
 

 

[catrice2]

27 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

Thinking about this episode one of the things I’m struck with is that as far as I can remember, this is the first challenge in 18 seasons to focus on African (diaspora) food, and the first time the guest judges had that in their background. Am I forgetting something? Let’s not forget this franchise had a challenge in an actual Southern plantation not too long ago.

I went to college in Portland in the 90s and one of the more adventurous places I went to was the Ethiopian restaurant Jarras, where they serve you their stews on top of their spongy pancake-like flatbreads that you use to pick up the food. That would seem ideal for a Quickfire. 

I’m trying to figure out what the next biggest culinary blind spot is for Top Chef.  I don’t think there’s ever been a Middle Eastern challenge in the show’s history, has there?

I don't watch every season so I am not sure about the Middle Eastern challenge, but that sounds interesting. If they haven't I hope so.  Someone said Thai food. I feel like I may have watched that before, but it could easily have been a different cooking show. 

I am supposed to visit this summer, COVID permitting, and I am looking for great places to eat while I am there. I was hoping Greg Gourdet's restaurant would be open, but I will have to make due with his cookbook that is now out!!! I want some of that PIcklez (sp) or whatever he and his mom made in that challenge where they had to sell something...

[Fukui San]

28 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I am supposed to visit this summer, COVID permitting, and I am looking for great places to eat while I am there. I was hoping Greg Gourdet's restaurant would be open, but I will have to make due with his cookbook that is now out!!! I want some of that PIcklez (sp) or whatever he and his mom made in that challenge where they had to sell something...

Portland was a good food city when I went to college, but now it's a world class food city. I visited a few years ago with my wife for her conference. We went with two of her colleagues. We all went our separate ways over a weekend and we all reconvened at the end raving over the food,

[stewedsquash]

39 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I think it will be proved that Chris (I think that is the one in the bottom three) is not as good a chef as he thinks he is....

I hope he goes along for several more episodes as I like him. Tom pointed out to Chris that he needed to figure out his point of view during judging. I think Brittanny and Chris are probably very good chefs but not cut out for a competition that gives you fuck with your head challenges. 

 

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Fukui San said:

Portland was a good food city when I went to college, but now it's a world class food city. I visited a few years ago with my wife for her conference. We went with two of her colleagues. We all went our separate ways over a weekend and we all reconvened at the end raving over the food,

I hope so! The one thing I love about Greg is he makes a fair amount of meatless dishes.  I know a restaurant there is always featured on Food Network shows. My sister lives there, but she never goes out to eat! 

[snarktini]

2 hours ago, sharifa70 said:

I’m not a fan of the flatbread (too sour for my taste), but I liked everything else. There was a mom & pop Ethiopian place on MLK that was delicious as well, though I still wasn’t a fan of the spongy bread.

It's called injera, and yeah I'm not a fan either. The spongy texture creeps me out and since it's your utensil, you end up eating a lot of it. Ethiopian food should come with little signs telling me what's what! When eating a sampler platter, if I can't identify the individual items I don't know what to order next time! So I get another platter and we go round and round. It's not a cuisine I eat a lot of so I haven't learned it well.

I'm always a little surprised to hear that chefs/cooks don't necessarily know all the world cuisines, but that's of course unfair as they are: a) human, b) tied up with very long hours, and c) not wealthy. I guess I just have this idea that chefs are very worldly and know everything about food. I had that reaction this time too -- how could I, a middle-aged white woman know more African food than some of them?! I first had Senegalese food maybe 20 years ago! And while I love food, I rarely eat out. But like I said, I know that's an unreasonable standard to hold them to. I also live in a big city that has literally everything so I have an advantage. But still I have only sampled a few African cuisines. Lots to learn!

Edited April 22, 2021 by snarktini

[PhoneCop]

20 hours ago, dleighg said:

yes, there really doesn't seem to be any "cannon fodder" this year, and they are all so nice to one another. This is absolutely one of my favorite shows on tv. I watch a few other reality shows (Proj. Runway, Below Deck (don't hate me)) and they really dial up the drama, and the certainly the folks on BD don't have any special skills!

I dunno, Brittanny fits that description pretty well and Chris is starting to look like he might be a dead chef walking, although I'm hoping he can turn it around. Sasha, I'm not sure about. Roscoe was gone so quickly that I'm willing to believe he might've just had a bad day.

But otherwise, yeah, it seems to be a solid group.

3 hours ago, sharifa70 said:

I also went to college in Portland (early oughts but I was a “non-traditional” older student), and also went to Jarras a couple of times! It’s gone now, alas, but I liked it. I’m not a fan of the flatbread (too sour for my taste), but I liked everything else. There was a mom & pop Ethiopian place on MLK that was delicious as well, though I still wasn’t a fan of the spongy bread. 

...Well, dangit, now I want Ethiopian food, but I live in the Metro area rather than in Portland proper and delivery isn’t an option. <shakes fist at covid>

I agree that Britanny was doomed as soon as she admitted to not really having an answer to what she loves about cooking. I’m not a professional (and my bakes fail more than they succeed), but even I could have answered that question.

"I love the alchemy of it." That's my bullshit answer for why I cook at home. When the real answer is "Because I can't afford to hire someone to do it for me."

Also, are you me? All the Ethiopian food I've had has been delicious—but I just can't warm to injera. I don't usually have texture issues with food, but a spongy, room-temp, sometimes grayish pancake-thing isn't something I really like shoveling in my mouth; put it on a frybread or something closer to a tortilla and I'd be set. Or hand me a fork.

[LBS]

I got to take a stand for Injera! I love the sour taste and the way it enhances the food.  I am so angry reading this post because I am craving Ethiopian food so hard now and I won’t be able to get some for at least couple more months.  🤣  

I really like this crew and I think it’s going to be a wonderful season.  The eliminations have been who I expected but I like them all.  I’m eager to see how they navigate restaurant wars.  

[stewedsquash]

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

I first had Senegalese food maybe 20 years ago!

Marcus Samuelsson's Houston episode of his No Passport Required is worth the viewing just for his dinner table scene at someone's home where the guests were sure their African country had claim to something and Marcus was nope!, then another nope!  and NOPE! Someone finally said Let my country claim something! I watched just a bit and have it set to record. It is a fantastic series. 

It would be pretty cool next season to have Marcus, Kwame, and Gregory involved in a quick fire or elimination challenge on this subject. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by stewedsquash
too many to's

[FinnishViewer]

41 minutes ago, LBS said:

I’m eager to see how they navigate restaurant wars

I read somewhere that there's no restaurant war this season.

[caitmcg]

24 minutes ago, FinnishViewer said:

I read somewhere that there's no restaurant war this season.

Apparently, because they can’t serve a crowd of people à la typical restaurant wars, they’re treating it like a chef’s table with a multi-course tasting menu, though I’m not sure of the logistics.

[sharifa70]

3 hours ago, snarktini said:

It's called injera

Thank you! I knew I knew the name at some point but couldn’t remember.

2 hours ago, PhoneCop said:

I don't usually have texture issues with food, but a spongy, room-temp, sometimes grayish pancake-thing isn't something I really like shoveling in my mouth

I sometimes *do* have texture issues with certain foods but for me in this case it’s the sour taste. Mind you, this is coming from someone who grew up on homemade Alaskan sourdough so I can’t even explain why I find the sour taste of injera so offensive. I agree that I would want a different base. There’s a Moroccan restaurant in Portland that serves a bread I absolutely love (not pita). I bet it would be heavenly with Ethiopian food.

[estellasmum]

7 hours ago, Fukui San said:

 

I went to college in Portland in the 90s and one of the more adventurous places I went to was the Ethiopian restaurant Jarras, where they serve you their stews on top of their spongy pancake-like flatbreads that you use to pick up the food. That would seem ideal for a Quickfire. 

 

As much as I would LOVE to see an Ethiopian food challenge, Injera isn't suited for a quickfire. The way to get that "sour" taste is to leave it ferment overnight. 

As a Portland farther out suburb dweller, this has made me miss all the great restaurants that we can't eat at, because it is just too long to get home with takeout. I'm sad that so many of the brick and mortar restaurants featured in this episode are closed, or permanently closed now.

[catrice2]

47 minutes ago, sharifa70 said:

Thank you! I knew I knew the name at some point but couldn’t remember.

I sometimes *do* have texture issues with certain foods but for me in this case it’s the sour taste. Mind you, this is coming from someone who grew up on homemade Alaskan sourdough so I can’t even explain why I find the sour taste of injera so offensive. I agree that I would want a different base. There’s a Moroccan restaurant in Portland that serves a bread I absolutely love (not pita). I bet it would be heavenly with Ethiopian food.

Yeah texture is a big thing with me. 

[staphdude]

4 hours ago, FinnishViewer said:

I read somewhere that there's no restaurant war this season.

Thank God! Most gimmicky and uneven challenge  of each season