S01.E01: New World Order

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Sam Wilson and Bucky Barnes realize that their futures are anything but normal.

Dropping Friday, March 19, 2021.

[paigow]

No Post Credit Scene

Title: New World Order

Edited March 19, 2021 by paigow

[cambridgeguy]

So Sam is working for the Air Force for free?  Dude, get the government to pull some strings if you're really that hard up for cash and you aren't willing to ask your very rich associate Pepper Potts for a loan. 

And seeing Bucky work his way through online dating would be pretty funny. 

[Hana Chan]

They ended it there?!? I want more!

For an episode focused on setup, this one still packed in so much that I was hooked after the first three minutes. As much as I enjoyed WandaVision, my favorite MCU projects were the ones most grounded in the real world, With the heavy hitters (Iron Man & Cap) out of the picture, it's now time for those who played more peripheral roles to take center stage. Whether they're ready or not.

This is a story about trauma and grief (like WandaVision), and I appreciate that we're finally seeing on the ground the results of these huge cosmic battles that the MCU has been playing with. How things affected society in general and individual civilians in particular. You can't erase half the universe and then reintroduce it a few years later without real damage. Seeing something as basic as financial considerations for someone who had no income for five years because he didn't exist during that time really cements how people would be struggling. While the focus of WandaVision was on one particular character's struggles, here we are going to be seeing how the world as a whole was affected by The Blip.

But it's also about legacy. Both Sam and Bucky are facing a world that has changed radically while they were away and seem ill-equipped to deal with what is going to be asked of them. Sam faces the burden of the mantle that Steve laid on him back in Endgame and for the moment feels that it's not his to assume. Steve did represent a lot and Sam appreciates the complicated nature of that persona. So we now have a pale (pun intended) copy of Steve stepping into the role and we are going to see the questions of patriotism vs jingoism. Should one's loyalty to one's country mean that you can't also focus on concerns for the greater world (and universe)? What about Sam's own identity as Falcon? How can he maintain his own unique identity if he's stepping into the role, name and costume of another man?

Sam's struggles with his family concerns was just as important. I love his sister and really do see where both of them are coming from. Sam wants to preserve his family's legacy while she recognizes that sometimes trying to hold on to something that is slipping out of your grasp is a pointless battle. It's great how their scenes really helped show just how hard things are for the ordinary people during and after The Blip. Those that stayed behind are struggling as much as those who are returning.

And then we have Bucky... my poor Bucky. Glad that he's in therapy because if there's anyone who needs it, it's him. And while his therapist is hard on him, I think she does have his best interest in heart. Bucky has been pardoned, though I would argue that it's kind of ridiculous to hold a POW who'd been tortured and brainwashed for decades in any way responsible for what he'd done. Legally, at least. I get that Bucky holds himself personally responsible and is struggling to see how he can make amends for what he'd done while figuring out what he can be in a civilian life. My heart broke when he spoke about only having a brief moment of peace while he was in Wakanda before being dragged into another fight, Blipped out, then returning for a last huge battle. I hope that it gets framed that this making amends is at least as much about helping him forgive himself as it is trying to help repair some of the damage that he was used to cause.

And I totally enjoyed the mutual "old man" vibes between Bucky and Mr. Yori. I hope that when Bucky does reveal to Mr. Yori that he was responsible for his son's death that it doesn't mean the loss of one of the few friendships he has because the truth is going to come out at some point. 

There's so much to unpack here and if there was one thing that annoyed me it's that I have to wait a whole week for the next episode. Unfair!

[Spartan Girl]

So we’re back to the 10 minutes of credits with no scene after? Ughhhh. Well, waiting has got to pay off at some point.

Loved everything with Sam and his family. Yeah, you’d think after blipping the world back the Avengers would have a better income, if not for them then families. Then I remembered that their government is run by Bag of Dicks Ross who probably just thought they should be grateful enough for pardons. Plus, you know, systemic racism.

Yay, Rhodey cameo!

Bucky’s shrink is already one of my favorite characters. She sees right through his bullshit and calls him out on it.

And Bucky...oh boy. Letting him be on ice or killing him off would have been kinder than to leave him alone in the world, struggling with PSTD and guilt now that his “best friend” ditched him to go back to the 40s — sorry, sorry, the less said about Endgame Steve, the better.

Thought it was cute he was hanging out with Mr. Yori until it was revealed he killed his son. Oof.

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

And I totally enjoyed the mutual "old man" vibes between Bucky and Mr. Yori. I hope that when Bucky does reveal to Mr. Yori that he was responsible for his son's death that it doesn't mean the loss of one of the few friendships he has because the truth is going to come out at some point. 

That’s going to be inevitable, even if he never finds out. It’s very clear that even though Hydra brainwashed Bucky, he still killed innocent people and that’s never going to be okay. No amount of “amends” or therapy will change that. Even Bucky has acknowledged as much in the movies.

Noticed Zemo is on Bucky’s “amends/revenge” list.

I automatically don’t trust Government Propaganda Cap.

Overall a good albeit slightly slow start. Wish we got two episodes to start with like WandaVision.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Hana Chan]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

And Bucky...oh boy. Letting him be on ice or killing him off would have been kinder than to leave him alone in the world, struggling with PSTD and guilt now that his “best friend” ditched him to go back to the 40s — sorry, sorry, the less said about Endgame Steve, the better.

They probably won't address this, but I really hope that they do. Bucky was, for all intents and purposes, abandoned by the one person that really understood him and the unique position he was in. I get that Chris Evan's contract was over and they needed to write him out in a way that wasn't a total downer after killing off Tony and Natasha, but damn... I'm still pissed about that.

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

No amount of “amends” or therapy will change that. Even Bucky has acknowledged as much in the movies.

This is the big problem for Bucky. He really was not responsible for what happened as the Winter Soldier. He had zero agency and after being tortured and having his brain repeatedly fried, he cannot be found to have any culpability since he never would have done any of this had he been in his right mind. The problem is that the world is not going to be able to separate Bucky from The Winter Soldier and more to the point, Bucky can't separate them. He feels ultimate responsible. I hope that this journey of "making amends" is as much about Bucky learning to let that responsibility go and focus on doing good in the world.

While Bucky talked about constantly being thrown into wars, he really does seem lost being a civilian. He'll need to find a fight that's worth taking on, but on his terms.

8 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Noticed Zemo is on Bucky’s “amends/revenge” list.

Curious to see where this is going to go because nothing regarding Zemo was in any way Bucky's (of the Winter Soldier's) fault.

[tv echo]

I loved this first episode. I loved getting more in-depth back story and character development for Sam and Bucky.  That opening aerial fight sequence was fantastic. And I like that Sam's getting his own sidekick in that young soldier.  Even the brief Winter Soldier flashback showed again how deadly he (Bucky) is.  But it was so heartbreaking when we got the Bucky reveal about his new friend's son. I enjoyed Bucky's therapy session.

I hope that one day they release the entire series in theaters as one long movie (or split it into two movies). It really deserves the big screen treatment. 

I can't wait to see the next episode.

“I am no longer the Winter Soldier. I am James 'Bucky' Barnes, and I am here to make amends.”

FYI: According to both ABC News and  Vulture, there was a huge budget for this series - reportedly $25M per episode.

ETA: Steve Rogers is becoming mythological like King Arthur, where people think he's still out there sleeping somewhere and will return one day when the world needs him.

Edited March 20, 2021 by tv echo

[SeanC]

There's a few patchy bits of dialogue here, notably when we're told two disconnected things about the Flag-Smashers without any obvious connective tissue (they want a world without states, as per usual; but also things were better before the Blip, even though there's no indication that states were any less of a thing then).  But on the whole, a solid start.

Sam and Bucky, especially the latter, really took a backseat in the Captain America movies after the sequels got reconfigured to highlight Avengers characters more, so I'm glad that the actors are really getting some space to work with.  The Winter Soldier has so much great material from the comics to mine in terms of following up on the basic premise.

One of the major takeaways is that these new MCU TV projects are going to be raising the bar on what TV budget action looks like.

Also, the guy playing Torres is clearly trying, but there's something off about his performance.

[Vanderboom]

I'm another one who is good to see that Marvel is exploring the implications of The Blip. Sure, reality on this planet was saved, but the changes aren't easy to live through if you don't have superpowers and/or cutting edge tech.

My heart hurts for poor Bucky. I hope he can find peace. Sebastian Stan did an excellent job of showing Bucky's despair, guilt, and dark humor even just through his facial expressions.

 

Shallow note: Both of them are ridiculously good-looking.

[swanpride]

I am wondering if the writers are reading fanfictions….not that they would ever admit it, but it was very odd to see Bucky in that Japanese Restaurant, because there is a very popular Bucky Fanfic (set after The Winter Soldier) in which one of the plot point is him striking a friendship with the owner of a Japanese restaurant (who has a daughter). Bucky's inner monologue in the fic is hilarious btw, I always have to remind myself that it isn't canon. Wasn't exactly easy watching him sitting in that restaurant.

Poor Bucky - I knew that Steve shouldn't have left him alone!!!! An honestly, what are all those Avengers even doing grieving on their own instead of helping each other out!!!!

Also loved the political undertones in relation to Sam. Him giving up the shield and it then being given to some white dude who has no relation whatsoever to Steve was such a fitting commentary about the state of American society!!!!

[paigow]

I guess the waitress never visited ALL of The Smithsonian...

[Hana Chan]

One thing that struck me at the end of the episode with the fake-ass Cap wannabe showing up was just how much a larger-than-life figure the real Captain America was. It's not a surprise that Sam didn't feel right in assuming the mantle - it's something that he's going to have to work up to. Captain was the super soldier and Sam is a very talented normally-strength soldier assisted by some pretty sweet tech. Sam would be stepping into some very big shoes and I don't blame him for feeling that it's not his role to take. The scene in the Smithsonian really displayed just how huge a legacy Steve had and it's not something that even a talented soldier like Sam can just take over.

Fake-Cap looks like a cheap knock off. Just enough like Steve (white and strongly built) but he just looked off. Everything was wrong. Even his costume looked like a cheap copy. Curious to see where they take this because the MCU isn't usually inclined to go really political but this series seems to have some real potential to make some strong statements.

I just watched it again and what I really loved were all the small human moments that really fleshed out Sam and Bucky. We knew very little about Sam's background from the movies outside of his career and seeing him with his family was enlightening. His sister did have an understandable gripe about him going off to join the Air Force and then the Avengers while she stayed to help keep the family business afloat. Sam tried to hero his way into fixing all the problems and discovered that being The Falcon doesn't help all things and banks can be very tight fisted even with heroes that helped save the universe.

Bucky had lots of background, but not a lot of humanity in the movies. He often got treated as a plot point for Steve to respond to but now Bucky's story is actually about Bucky. Seeing things from his POV and how things have affected him directly makes him a much more fully realized character than we got in the movies. There are all kinds of little moments that call back to the movies (Bucky sleeping on the floor the same way he did while on the run in Civil War, and keeping a list of his own like Steve did), but with a clearer focus on how this was tied to Bucky's profound PTSD. We're really seeing how deeply all these events of the movies affected Bucky as a person.

The action sequences were great and if anyone harms a hair on Torres's head, I will go to war. Do I really need to wait a week for the next ep? *whines*

[Spartan Girl]

48 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

Curious to see where this is going to go because nothing regarding Zemo was in any way Bucky's (of the Winter Soldier's) fault.

Pretty sure he's just one of the guys the government wants Bucky to help bring in (since he probably broke out of prison).

[Hana Chan]

One thing that struck me on second viewing. It's obvious that despite Bucky's lack of responsibility, he holds himself liable for all the harm he'd done as the Winter Soldier and we didn't get to see how any of this affected Bucky himself. The killing of Howard Stark in particular. Howard was at the very least a close acquaintance of Bucky's. We saw how this affected Tony, but the movies barely touched upon the guilt that Bucky felt over the act. And while he's had Steve assuring him that it wasn't his fault, he never had anyone that was directly injured tell him that. We never got a scene in Endgame where Tony recognized that Bucky ultimately wasn't responsible and shouldn't be burdened with the guilt and offered the absolution that only someone harmed by the Winter Soldier could.

I'm hoping that Mr. Yori defies what I'm expecting and is able to give Bucky that. Because all of the AA-styled steps to healing won't help unless he's able to let go of the guilt that he's carting around. Maybe that will allow Bucky to start putting the past behind him and moving forward with his life.

And good on Sam for reaching out to Bucky even if Bucky isn't responding just yet.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Hana Chan

[paigow]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Also, the guy playing Torres is clearly trying, but there's something off about his performance.

Coming across as not the sharpest bayonet in the drawer...

[Hana Chan]

1 minute ago, paigow said:

Coming across as not the sharpest bayonet in the drawer...

But he is adorable. So he doesn't need to be smart.

[SeanC]

I get the writers wanting to bring in more 'realistic' stuff with the economics, etc., but in this case I would say that Sam should really have more options than the writers seem to want him to have here -- just set up a GoFundMe, he's a celebrity hero, he shouldn't have any problem raising the cash he needs.

[Hana Chan]

17 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I get the writers wanting to bring in more 'realistic' stuff with the economics, etc., but in this case I would say that Sam should really have more options than the writers seem to want him to have here -- just set up a GoFundMe, he's a celebrity hero, he shouldn't have any problem raising the cash he needs.

I find it interesting that they're actually asking how heroes who don't have a multi-billionaire or government bankrolling them end up struggling financially. Especially in what I'm assuming in a pretty deep post-Blip recession. After five years, you've suddenly got a ton of people who need jobs, places to live (and might have lost the homes that they had beforehand), etc. Families might be broken apart (with Blip-widows remarrying and then having their "deceased" spouses returning). To be honest, while the banker was a grade-A dickwad for fanboying all over Sam while then just refusing Sam's loan application made too much sense. 

Agree that a GoFundMe would make sense, but how humiliating would it be for a superhero to be spreading the word that he's hard up for cash?

[Llywela]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

So Sam is working for the Air Force for free?  Dude, get the government to pull some strings if you're really that hard up for cash and you aren't willing to ask your very rich associate Pepper Potts for a loan. 

The implication was that while Sam still works jobs for the Air Force, those are one-off contracts rather than a fixed, regular income that can be relied on for loan repayments. That plus no employment history for the last five years of not existing just gave the bank the excuse it needed to say no. And after not existing for five years, plus most of the Avengers he was closest to being gone, I guess Sam no longer has the contacts he once had. I doubt he really knows Pepper to go to her for a loan. He's trying to do it all the right way, the old-fashioned way - the way his father taught him.

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Also loved the political undertones in relation to Sam. Him giving up the shield and it then being given to some white dude who has no relation whatsoever to Steve was such a fitting commentary about the state of American society!!!!

My immediate reaction to Fake-Cap was 'eww' - the appropriate reaction, I'm sure! Having a pasty (possibly evil?) nobody as Fake Cap will make it all the sweeter when Sam finally takes on the mantle himself.

Strong start to the show - although it would have been nice to have a few more women to balance out all those men, and personally I could have done without the prolonged action sequence as the opener! But it's a Marvel show and was meant, I believe, to be the first Marvel show to air, so I get why they wanted the big action sequence before getting into all the character stuff. But speaking of this being intended as the first to air - they said here that it has been several months since the Blip. In WandaVision it had only been a matter of weeks, so airing that first makes more sense.

It amused me that in Bucky's very first scene here, with the shrink, he probably had more dialogue than he's had in all his movies so far put together! And that small point drove home how little we really know the character, despite him having played such a major role in the MCU. It's good to see him and Sam getting more fleshed out here. I look forward to them actually meeting up again.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Llywela

[AimingforYoko]

At first, I thought maybe Yori was a (very) old friend of Bucky's. But as soon as he said his son was killed, I knew what was up. Bucky's got a lot of red in his ledger, gonna take a while to make amends.

Man, Batroc is always good for some action set-pieces. Kinda glad he got away.

[bmoore4026]

No!  No!  No!  That guy is not the new Captain America!  You put that shield back!  You put it back now!

Anyway, I'm assuming Sam was pardoned along with Steve and the others after the Civil War event.  I mean, in Endgame, Steve was not in prison so I'm guessing things were smoothed over.

Also, Steve better not be dead.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by bmoore4026

[Lebanna]

Love how much FaCaptain America holding the shield makes you want to cringe. Did he wink?

Typical for the Flag Smashers to try to use utopian idealistic people who want everyone to have open borders for what will presumably turn out to be a plan for evil world domination.

I want to visit that Smithsonian exhibition so much. I always do. It looks super interesting and detailed. So many exhibits! So much etched glass!

Edited March 19, 2021 by Lebanna

[Hana Chan]

39 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

No!  No!  No!  That guy is not the new Captain America!  You put that shield back!  You put it back now!

I'm sure that the actor is a perfectly nice guy, but imagine going to work one day and ending up the most hated person on the internet.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

That’s going to be inevitable, even if he never finds out. It’s very clear that even though Hydra brainwashed Bucky, he still killed innocent people and that’s never going to be okay. No amount of “amends” or therapy will change that. Even Bucky has acknowledged as much in the movies.

As unfair as it is, Bucky shouldering the responsibility of his bloody past alone, at least for now, is the only way in the fictional world he occupies that he'll be able to be separate from the Winter Soldier. The pardon doesn't clear his conscience, just his criminal record, and we very specifically saw that Yori's son knew what was coming. He begged for his life, swore he didn't see anything, and he got a bullet in the head for his trouble anyway. It's not even clear if the Soldier heard him or not, but we as viewers did. How many other innocent bystanders must there have been, people who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time? The Bucky who befriended an old man knowing that he killed his son and left him heartbroken because he doesn't know the "why" of it is the same Bucky who told Tony Stark "I remember all of them." It's profoundly unfair, but I think it's his only way back to having a real life.

As for Sam, his disbelieving "Are you serious right now?" with the banker who asked to take a selfie with him was a different kind of ouch. He really thought he and his sister were going to get some help, so the guy asking him for his autograph, pretty much, after saying a very firm no was dickish, if understandable. They've returned to a world that was vastly changed by the Snap, and then the Blipping back of all of those people once Thanos was defeated. And while it's good that Sam is determined to help now that he's back, his sister was right in saying that he'd been gone not just during those five years but before that. Though I do wonder, since Sam is still doing some work for the military and is still in touch with Rhodey; wouldn't those government contracts he mentioned have already paid off a bit, enough to get the bank to give him some leeway?

Of note: The fugazi Captain America (which I stole from Facebook and can't take credit for) is played by Wyatt Russell, Kurt's son.

[Kel Varnsen]

That was a pretty good set up for a series. I am curious to see how Sam and Bucky get together. Although I wonder if the flag smasher movement is anything more than a way for the leaders to rob banks.

The Smithsonian stuff was cool, but what happened to the broken shield from Endgame. That would be the historic artifact I would want to see in a museum.

3 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

 I hope that when Bucky does reveal to Mr. Yori that he was responsible for his son's death that it doesn't mean the loss of one of the few friendships he has because the truth is going to come out at some point. 

Wow I totally didn't put 2 and 2 together on that. I figured the son died during the blip period. Not a time more than 13 years ago.

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

.nd Bucky...oh boy. Letting him be on ice or killing him off would have been kinder than to leave him alone in the world, struggling with PSTD and guilt now that his “best friend” ditched him to go back to the 40s — sorry, sorry, the less said about Endgame Steve, the better.

Makes me really wonder what happened to old man Steve. Did he just go back to his own timeline? Hope they at least try to explain it.

3 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

 

3 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

This is the big problem for Bucky. He really was not responsible for what happened as the Winter Soldier. He had zero agency and after being tortured and having his brain repeatedly fried, he cannot be found to have any culpability since he never would have done any of this had he been in his right mind. The problem is that the world is not going to be able to separate Bucky from The Winter Soldier and more to the point, Bucky can't separate them. He feels ultimate responsible. I hope that this journey of "making amends" is as much about Bucky learning to let that responsibility go and focus on doing good in the world.

Was he pardoned for being the winter soldier or was he pardoned for some Sokovia accords bullshit related to civil war? Even if it was a pardon for his actions as the WS I can maybe see it. Maybe the government just said we will give you a pardon and just go to therapy. Otherwise we have to have a trial and you have to prove you were brain washed. Which could be difficult with all the Hydra people dead. And even without that a trial would be not great for Bucky's ptsd.

 

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

I get the writers wanting to bring in more 'realistic' stuff with the economics, etc., but in this case I would say that Sam should really have more options than the writers seem to want him to have here -- just set up a GoFundMe, he's a celebrity hero, he shouldn't have any problem raising the cash he needs.

I bought that. Sam would be way to proud to ask for handouts to save his business when people are really suffering. Especially since he probably would make millions.

Although I was a little confused if his sister got blipped or not. At one point she talks about holding the family together for 5 years. But in the bank she mentions not existing for 5 years.

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Bucky sleeping on the floor the same way he did while on the run in Civil War, and keeping a list of his own like Steve did

That in turn would be a call back to Captain America Winter Soldier where Sam and Steve talk about how when soldiers come back home the beds are too comfortable.

[FnkyChkn34]

What got me the most about the new Captain America is that they stole the shield from the Smithsonian.  Obviously the whole thing was government sanctioned so it wasn't really "stealing" but that is *definitely* not the intent Sam had when he gave it to them to display.  The real crime here to me is the deception to Sam and the other Avengers, not necessarily the imposter.  But clearly all of this will tie in to later episodes, I'm sure.

I've actually wondered all along how some of them make a living.  Maybe Steve got paid for his speaking engagements, and Rhodey has a military salary, and Banner was a professor or something (I don't know, but a logical profession for him for sure, among other things) - but how did people like Natasha live and make money?  I agreed with the man at the bank - I assumed that they were all just on Stark's payroll (and maybe sometime's SHIELD's).  But what about now that he's gone?  This may be boring to others, but I'm actually interested in getting answers to these little background details.

Otherwise, I thought this was a strong first episode, and I'm hooked!  Not like I didn't think I was going to be. 😉 

[wanderingstar]

Aside from the action scenes in the beginning, this was a surprisingly quiet and pensive episode, particularly for a series premiere. That surprised me, but I think I liked it.

Enjoyed seeing more about Sam and Bucky's lives. 

Interested to see where this goes.

[FnkyChkn34]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Wow I totally didn't put 2 and 2 together on that. I figured the son died during the blip period. Not a time more than 13 years ago.

Makes me really wonder what happened to old man Steve. Did he just go back to his own timeline? Hope they at least try to explain it.

 

Was he pardoned for being the winter soldier or was he pardoned for some Sokovia accords bullshit related to civil war? Even if it was a pardon for his actions as the WS I can maybe see it. Maybe the government just said we will give you a pardon and just go to therapy. Otherwise we have to have a trial and you have to prove you were brain washed. Which could be difficult with all the Hydra people dead. And even without that a trial would be not great for Bucky's ptsd.

 

I bought that. Sam would be way to proud to ask for handouts to save his business when people are really suffering. Especially since he probably would make millions.

Although I was a little confused if his sister got blipped or not. At one point she talks about holding the family together for 5 years. But in the bank she mentions not existing for 5 years.

At the end, you can see his son's name in Bucky's journal, on his list of "amends."  At first I thought that his son would have died in Sokovia.  I guess that's still a possibility, but doesn't seem like it now.

The general population doesn't know what happened to Steve, or Old Man Steve, right?  So Old Man Steve could just live anonymously in this time line if he had to; plus, he's too old to be Captain America anyway, so why bring on that criticism?

I assume he got a pardon for being the Winter Soldier - a Hydra operative.  But everyone knows that he was brainwashed and isn't under their control anymore, so a punishment would be unfair.  

I think a Kickstarter would be more appropriate for a struggling business.  But I agree that Sam is too proud to attach his name to something; he doesn't want the fame and fortune just by taking people's money.  He had a legitimate argument to use it with the guy at the bank though, since government contracts ARE a source of income.

I think his sister was talking about Sam when she mentioned being gone for 5 years at the bank.  Sam had the gap in his income history, but her business also struggled with less customers and whatnot.

[Hana Chan]

3 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

It's profoundly unfair, but I think it's his only way back to having a real life.

Which is why I think that the forgiveness of one of his victims, or the father of his victim, is the final piece he needs in order to start letting that pain go. Otherwise I can't see the point of building up this friendship between a deeply traumatized 106 year old man and this nice Japanese gentleman without it being just another knife in Bucky's gut.

There were so many wonderful little nuances that really made this such a well crafted show. The cinematography was amazing, from the way we had Sam and the shield superimposed to the way Bucky was viewed at odd angles and extreme closeups during his therapy session. We had the Winter Soldier theme during the flashback, and there were so many nuggets during the closing credits to pick over. Cosplay Captain being labeled as a "manufactured hero", all of Bucky's old trigger words, the hints of Madripoor, a vial that looked like it might have had the blue super soldier serum, Bucky's dog tags, the missing signs from the Blip... There's so much to catch on second (and third, and fourth) viewings.

[VCRTracking]

I like this first episode and I loved WANDVISION but I'm getting so much "real" from the MCU right now I'm hoping Loki is just some fun hijinks!

[Kel Varnsen]

3 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

The general population doesn't know what happened to Steve, or Old Man Steve, right?  So Old Man Steve could just live anonymously in this time line if he had to; plus, he's too old to be Captain America anyway, so why bring on that criticism?

I assume he got a pardon for being the Winter Soldier - a Hydra operative.  But everyone knows that he was brainwashed and isn't under their control anymore, so a punishment would be unfair.  

The general public don't know but Bucky knows what happened to him. And with all the therapists talk about how Bucky needs to connect with people it seems weird it didn't come up that Steve is probably still alive some where (at least it didn't come up with respect to Bucky).

As for the pardon, I am not just how easily people would accept the "he was brainwashed" excuse and let probably dozens (possibly hundreds) of murders go. There would have to be some kind of official investigation inquest or something. So I can see a president just giving him a pardon rather than putting him through all of that. Plus as for the brainwashing thing, he had enough control to pull Steve out of the Potomac, so people would probably want to know why he didn't have enough control to not murder their family or friends.

[FnkyChkn34]

3 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As for the pardon, I am not just how easily people would accept the "he was brainwashed" excuse and let probably dozens (possibly hundreds) of murders go. There would have to be some kind of official investigation inquest or something. So I can see a president just giving him a pardon rather than putting him through all of that. Plus as for the brainwashing thing, he had enough control to pull Steve out of the Potomac, so people would probably want to know why he didn't have enough control to not murder their family or friends.

As for pulling Steve out of the Potomac, I think Bucky was only just starting to come around because Steve is Steve and Steve was the first person to get through to him ever so slightly.  Prior to that, he was 100% brainwashed and didn't care about strangers.  Unfortunately, it's like the insanity defense.  Sometimes people just aren't in their right minds, and family and friends don't get justice for the person's bad actions. 

[bmoore4026]

48 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I'm sure that the actor is a perfectly nice guy, but imagine going to work one day and ending up the most hated person on the internet.

Maybe I was too harsh.  But I'm mad at the character not the actor.

Also, is Hydra really gone?

[Llywela]

4 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Maybe I was too harsh.  But I'm mad at the character not the actor.

Also, is Hydra really gone?

Hydra is never truly gone. It gets defeated, it slinks into the shadows to rebuild, and then it comes back in a new form.

40 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Although I was a little confused if his sister got blipped or not. At one point she talks about holding the family together for 5 years. But in the bank she mentions not existing for 5 years.

She was talking about Sam - the gap in his employment record because he didn't exist for five years.

[absnow54]

58 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I'm sure that the actor is a perfectly nice guy, but imagine going to work one day and ending up the most hated person on the internet.

The guy is Wyatt Russell. Offspring of Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn. He'll be fine. 

[Hana Chan]

9 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

But I'm mad at the character not the actor.

It doesn't help that in the mask, he looks like the old man from Up.

[swanpride]

Question: Are now all psychiatric offices in TV inspired by Monk, or is that just the typical look of them in the US?

I think the sister is just p... that Sam is now telling her what to do after not having been involved with her business long before the snap even happened. And I guess that we see again what was already hinted at in Captain Marvel: There is some resentment of those who weren't snapped towards those who were. Some sort of "you don't know how hard those five years were" attitude.

Bucky most likely befriended the old man for one reason and one reason alone, because he feels particularly bad about this particular murder. I mean, most of his victims were most likely people who were either corrupt or at least knew the danger of what they were doing. This particular victim is most likely particularly hard for Bucky to deal with (along with Howard who as, after all, someone he knew somewhat). Hence he is now looking out for the father, to make up for what he did as well as he can. Though I guess sooner or later he will have to tell the truth. And I fear that will be gut wrenching.

Does he still have his backpack of sadness?

 

[festivus]

That was a punch in my gut when it was revealed the Bucky killed that guy's son. I love his therapist already, she doesn't take his shit and that's what he needs. I felt so bad for him saying he had a moment of peace in Wakanda.

That beginning scene must have cost a fortune. I like seeing Sam's family, his sister letting him know he doesn't really understand what went on in the blip. Not his fault, but still true.

[Kel Varnsen]

50 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Unfortunately, it's like the insanity defense.  Sometimes people just aren't in their right minds, and family and friends don't get justice for the person's bad actions. 

Exactly my point, an insanity defense is something that a defendant presents at a trial (it's not like the cops just take your word for it if you comit a crime and say you are insane). But it would probably be next to impossible for Bucky to prove Nazi brainwashing and a trial would be a circus. So I can totally see a president saying a pardon would be the most painless way to move on.

I also imagine that if Bucky's case went to trial and he got off due to brainwashing it could set a bad precedent. Since if he was found not guilty what would stop senator Gary Shandling from saying the same thing. Also keep in mind that Bill O'Reilly exists in the MCU and would probably have a lot to say about heroes like Bucky.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[swanpride]

Quote

And that small point drove home how little we really know the character, despite him having played such a major role in the MCU.

Well, we knew when he was born, we know that he looked out for Steve since they were children and especially after Steve's mother died, we know that he was drafted into WWII (granted, we only know THAT because the number he quotes in captivity indicates a draftee) that he nevertheless managed to become sergeant, that he was quite a ladies man but his ego was completely okay with Steve stealing his spotlight (which happens to be the moment I fell in love with his character btw) that he could have gotten home but decided to follow Steve instead, that he is a first class sharp shooter but never particularly enjoyed having that skill, that he was tortured, brainwashed and used like a living weapon by Hydra, we know about his note book and his backpack of sadness and (thanks to Sebastian Stan's performance) that he actually doesn't enjoy fighting but somehow always ends up in fights in order to protect others (mainly Steve). And that he has quite a dry sense of Humor.

[AimingforYoko]

Here's my question: Why the moon? I know conspiracy theories by definition don't make a lot of sense, but why would people think Steve's on the moon, of all places. For what purpose?

[Llywela]

24 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Well, we knew when he was born, we know that he looked out for Steve since they were children and especially after Steve's mother died, we know that he was drafted into WWII (granted, we only know THAT because the number he quotes in captivity indicates a draftee) that he nevertheless managed to become sergeant, that he was quite a ladies man but his ego was completely okay with Steve stealing his spotlight (which happens to be the moment I fell in love with his character btw) that he could have gotten home but decided to follow Steve instead, that he is a first class sharp shooter but never particularly enjoyed having that skill, that he was tortured, brainwashed and used like a living weapon by Hydra, we know about his note book and his backpack of sadness and (thanks to Sebastian Stan's performance) that he actually doesn't enjoy fighting but somehow always ends up in fights in order to protect others (mainly Steve). And that he has quite a dry sense of Humor.

You don't have to leap to his defence! It wasn't a dig at the character. I was simply  observing that he hasn't had a huge amount of dialogue through all those movies he's been in, so we haven't had much opportunity to hear him express opinions, relate to the people around him, etc. The movies have implied a lot about his thought processes, kudos to Sebastian Stan for conveying so much with relatively little screen time, but Bucky himself hasn't been given the chance to actually express himself very much, so it's cool to get to hear him actually talking to people, at length, for a change.

[Minneapple]

3 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Here's my question: Why the moon? I know conspiracy theories by definition don't make a lot of sense, but why would people think Steve's on the moon, of all places. For what purpose?

Guessing it was just a jab at crazy conspiracy theories.

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Agree that a GoFundMe would make sense, but how humiliating would it be for a superhero to be spreading the word that he's hard up for cash?

Since Sam's identity isn't a secret word would get out soon enough, especially for the more trollish reporters.   I can see the article now.  Look at Falcon - leaves his family in poverty while he plays at being a B list hero.   Is this who we want to take up the legacy of Steve Rogers?

And maybe I'm just used to other TV heroes but it is amazing how detached most of the MCU people are from every day heroics.  Aside from Spidey the rest seem to be involved with just government or secret agent work rather than patrolling a specific city.

[Danny Franks]

I'll say this for the MCU - it makes Falcon far cooler than the comics ever did. And drone Redwing is far easier to accept than telepathic falcon Rewding.

Batroc is back, hijacking a different mode of transport. I guess he's got trains and automobiles left. I did feel like some of the shots in this opening sequence were kind of badly framed and muddled. It also went on for far too long, but I generally always feel that way with CGI-laden action scenes. I lost count of how many helicopters appeared out of nowhere for Sam to blow up.

The quieter scenes are much better. Anthony Mackie's strengths lie in semi-antagonistic bickering and generally being a bro. He has great chemistry with anyone he's put in a scene with. With that soldier, with Rhodey and, although they haven't met up yet, I'm sure he'll be great with Bucky too.

Although it's obviously given him incalculable levels of trauma, seeing the Winter Soldier in action via flashback is seriously impressive. No wonder the guy was the most feared assassin the Soviet Union (or is it just Hydra, despite the red star on his arm?) had.

Bucky being reluctant to engage in therapy makes complete sense, as a manly man of the 1940s. What sort of Brooklyn kid would need to talk to a shrink, after all? Him being on some kind of reluctant Twelve Steps/Jason Bourne redemption quest is a cool idea. 

This storyline is right in my wheelhouse, and exactly why I loved Bucky in the comics - he chooses to be alone, to cut himself off from any potential friendships because he just doesn't know how to interact with people, he doesn't want them to deal with his immense baggage and, perhaps most crucially, he doesn't think he deserves to be happy or content or at peace. The only person he's reached out to is a guy whose son he killed because... hey, whatever hurts the most, right? 

(Also, this is another reason I'm annoyed that the MCU didn't do anything with the Bucky/Natasha relationship, because who knows more about making amends for past sins than she does?)

Amy Aquino is great, and I look forward to as many scenes with her as we can get. She has such presence and authority.

The disgust that the new 'Captain America' was met with is entirely fitting, if a little amusing considering how much time Tony Stark spent on trying to get someone else to carry the mantle after Steve died in the comics.

I'm not at all sure about the idea of people who want a unified, borderless world being the villains. That's generally a utopian ideal which, though it's hard to truly envisage, would be indicative of a humanity that has united and lives in relative harmony. The idea of tribal division as a desired norm is very... regressive.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Danny Franks

[absnow54]

One thing that bugs, is that they say that Bucky has no family, but then he goes onto say that he had four sisters. I get that they've all probably passed, but does he have no nieces or nephews to connect with? 

[AnimeMania]

Here is another downvote for Captaint America.

I didn't like that Bucky kinda lied when the girl asked why he always wore gloves. He should have given her a little heads up that something might be a little different there if their relationship should go forward. It is better to let her imagine tons of horrible things which is usually worst than what is actually going on, just to get her mindspace in a more receptive mood if he ever decides to show her.

Sam should be able to open some doors to get the catering a ton of new business, just from offering to make an appearance. Sam could even start making deliveries, "30 seconds or less".

The opening sequence was amazing. I had to question how they restocked the bad guys after Sam took out the first wave or how all the bad guys weren't sliced into cold cuts by Sam's wings after getting 6 feet from the door after jumping out of the plane.

Being a person who knows the names and "maybe powers" of all the Marvel Superheroes and little else. I feel I should whisper that I thought WandaVision's sitcoms were boring and their action sequences were mediocre. It seems that if you weren't that interested in or knew about the characters, or trying to solve the mystery, there wasn't much for you. The Falcon And The Winter Soldier is typical Marvel movie action brought to television and I can't find any downsides to that. I give high marks for Episode 1.

[FnkyChkn34]

5 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

One thing that bugs, is that they say that Bucky has no family, but then he goes onto say that he had four sisters. I get that they've all probably passed, but does he have no nieces or nephews to connect with? 

Probably not that he's ever met?  Also, I think connecting now would be just as awkward as trying to make friends, considering he'd be 30-40 years younger than them.  

[thuganomics85]

When one Marvel show on Disney+ ends, another begins!  They certainly don't waste time here.

Interesting set-up: especially with them actually keeping Sam and Bucky separated for now, and looking at their own issues post-Blip/Endgame.  Figured it would be a little bleak, but I still wasn't expected it to be as grounded and almost realistic as it was.  But, yeah, I sadly can buy that despite his heroics and even being a freaking Avenger, Sam would still be pushed to the side by the government and barely getting by to the point that he still needs to take out a loan to save his family boat.  Which, naturally, he still doesn't get approval for due to his spotty record.  Because, you know, when he isn't saving the world, he's getting wiped off of the face of the Earth alongside a billion others, because some purple madman wants to quell overpopulation in the worst way possible.  But, hey, his paychecks haven't been consistent enough, so fuck him, right?  Eat a dick, bank!

Meanwhile, poor, poor Bucky.  Yeah, he was being mind-controlled during his Winter Solider days and wasn't truly responsible for what happened.  But not only does he know that others probably won't understand that part (Civil War certainly showed that), that is still something that would make any decent person feel guilty about, and Bucky is definitely more than decent.  I'm already preparing for the heartbreak whenever this Yori character finds out that he killed his son.  I just hope Bucky tells him first, because it would be worst if he finds out by other means.

It was probably just a one-off, but I kind of hope Bucky's date shows back up.  It was nice seeing him have a sense of normalcy for once.  Even if his dating style is a bit old-fashioned....

 Rhodey!  Wasn't expecting him to pop up.  I hope we see him again.

"New Captain America" already seems to be a contender for most hated character in the MCU without even uttering a word.  Wyatt Russell will probably be a good fit, but I kind of wish they went full meta and got John Krasinski since he was originally a finalist for the role years ago (and his wife, Emily Blunt, was actually the original choice for Natasha/Black Widow, but had to drop out.)

So the villains are going to be this New World Order group, who seem to be another case of antagonists whose ideas aren't actually bad on paper (a united world), but their approach to things are probably going to be quite questionable.  Plus, not to dive into spoiler territory, I have a feeling I know who else might be involved here...

The only downside is that this really is highlighting that Steve's choice to leave was very, very questionable.  His two best friends are struggling and barely holding it together, and Steve was just like "Whelp, I'm off to the 40s to hang with my girlfriend and totally bone the timeline!  Peace!"

Pretty good start.  Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan carried the episode well and seem to be enjoying getting to be front and center this time.

[Hana Chan]

47 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Since Sam's identity isn't a secret word would get out soon enough, especially for the more trollish reporters.   I can see the article now.  Look at Falcon - leaves his family in poverty while he plays at being a B list hero.   Is this who we want to take up the legacy of Steve Rogers?

Since all of the earthbound heroes were either independently wealthy (Tony), employed by SHIELD or the military (Steve, Natasha, Clint, Rhody, Sam) or  sponsored by one of the above (Peter, Bruce), it's hard to see how playing hero pays the bills. I remember Peter's homemade Spider suit and what a joke it was. With Sam trying to do his own repairs on his flight suit, it's obvious that he doesn't have any real backing at the moment. It might have been nice to live at the Avengers compound (funded by Tony) with a perfect apartment and full fridge and your disposal, but without that they have to worry about mortgages and phone bills like the rest of us. 

Bigger question is how Bucky is supporting himself since I don't see him having any kind of job. Maybe 90 years of military back pay? Because that was an awfully nice apartment he had.