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S01.E01: New World Order

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By the time we're talking about a century-old cyborg who's repeatedly been brainwashed and put in suspended animation, the situation is far enough from reality that I'm just going to go with it being fine if the other party is a consenting adult. I mean, Thor is about 40 times as old as Jane Foster, and my only objection to that relationship is the lack of chemistry between Chris Hemsworth and Natalie Portman.

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35 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Sorry, but I said that - I said he's 38, because he was frozen again for a time in between Civil War and Black Panther.  I don't think you finished reading my whole post. 😉 

You're right I missed the last part. 

1 hour ago, swanpride said:

Let's say he is somewhere in his thirties. And the waitress was something around 30, based on how she looks (she certainly doesn't look like a teen or young student or anything like that). So they are in a fitting age range.

I would agree. I don't really see a big deal on the age gap, I know plenty of couples with 10 year gaps and it's not always the men that are older. 😁

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41 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I would agree. I don't really see a big deal on the age gap, I know plenty of couples with 10 year gaps and it's not always the men that are older. 😁

I, personally, would have no problem with the age gap between myself and Chris Evans and I would be the older in that almost 9 year age gap. My brother's wife is 9 years younger than him. My uncle married my aunt who is also nine years younger than him. They all met when that age gap really didn't make a difference. It's one thing, I feel, when you've got an 18 year old with a 27-28 year old because, man, the changes one goes through in those ten years after you 'legally' become an adult.

Bucky's date was awkward and weird because he's wildly out of practice interacting with people in a non-combative situation and he's got so much baggage attached to him it's shocking he isn't surrounded by a team of porters at all times. Poor little dumpster fire.

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Why does Bucky remember how to speak Russian if his brain kept getting wiped? Did Zola invent Rosetta Stone?

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1 hour ago, paigow said:

Why does Bucky remember how to speak Russian if his brain kept getting wiped? Did Zola invent Rosetta Stone?

I'm going to go with different parts of the brain store different kinds of memories. Like how most people with amnesia or short term memory loss can still speak, walk, dress themselves, etc. His language centers must not have been part of what got wiped.

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On 3/24/2021 at 4:43 PM, paigow said:

Why does Bucky remember how to speak Russian if his brain kept getting wiped? Did Zola invent Rosetta Stone?

They didn’t wipe his brain. They hijacked his brain but the memories are still there. 

Edited by Dani
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6 minutes ago, Dani said:

They didn’t wipe is brain. They hijacked his brain but the memories are still there. 

Alexander Pierce tells the Hydra scientists to wipe Bucky's memory after he sees Steve and starts wondering who he is. Although it would make sense that when Shiri fixed his programming she also cleared up the memory wipes.

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5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Alexander Pierce tells the Hydra scientists to wipe Bucky's memory after he sees Steve and starts wondering who he is. Although it would make sense that when Shiri fixed his programming she also cleared up the memory wipes.

I feel that just the term that was used. They had to repeatedly traumatize his brain to maintain control but they couldn’t really wipe his memory. Once he was able to get away and not undergo “treatment” he’s memories came back before Shuri began to help him. He clearly remembered most of his past in Civil War. 

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Plus, I know we're in the area of magical science here, but how could they be sure they were wiping only the memory of Steve and not, say, how to use a fork / read / tie his shoes / anything else they would have definitely wanted him to keep? Especially since he'd known Steve for a long time and Steve was probably present when Bucky learned a couple of fundamental things. Personally, I always understood it more as "wiping his personality", which is why he remained functional in every other respect.

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Russian aside, it is pretty likely that both Steven and Bucky became multilingual during WWII. I mean, they are both enhanced, which includes enhanced learning abilities, and running around in Europe for over a year. It is pretty likely that they speak at least French and German and since Agent Carter established that they were also running around at the Russian front, Russian too.

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FWIW, head writer Malcolm Spellman pointed out in a recent The Wrap interview that Bucky never had any kind of life despite being “alive” for more than century, stating: “The other thing we want to explore with Bucky is the fact that he’s 106, and the fact that he’s never been present mentally in one era long enough to even be identified... He’s completely at sea with the times no matter when it exists.”

Edited by tv echo
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On 3/22/2021 at 12:46 PM, blackwing said:

Perhaps I have completely misinterpreted Bucky's story, but I don't think he was just starting to befriend Yori? It seemed they had been friends for some time before this series started.  Bucky watches out for him, tells him not to get into arguments with neighbors, much like a grandson taking care of his eldrely grandfather.  They regularly meet for lunch or dinner.  I thought Bucky didn't seem to make the connection that the Yori's son was one of his victims until we saw it in the episode. 

He has Yori's name on his amends list.  And when they were eating lunch and Yori spoke of his son, he had a guilty look.

On 3/22/2021 at 1:56 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

I can see why you thought that, but I interpreted this storyline differently...  I thought that Bucky knew all along who he was befriending, and it was only for the benefit of the audience that we got to see Yori's son's name in Bucky's book, so that we, the audience, now knew too.  It was at the top of the list so it made sense to me that he started there, and that's why they'd already been friends for awhile.  I thought he ran out on his date because he couldn't bear to hear her talk about what he'd done - what he knew he did but what no one else knows he did.  

Now I'm curious which one of us is correct! 🙂  

You are correct.

On 3/23/2021 at 4:05 AM, swanpride said:

I think it is pretty clear that Bucky befriended the old man deliberately...he is making amends by looking out for him. Hence Stan's guilty look when he talks about his son. He run away from the date because he realised that what hits the old man the worst is not knowing what happened to his son, so he wanted to tell him, but then he saw the altar for the son and chickened out.

Exactly.

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(from the ep 3 thread)

56 minutes ago, Kromm said:

Right, but it was at least a few months more, I think, before the government gave the shield to someone else. 

I think the government snarfed the shield from the Smithsonian and handed it over in a day or two. Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense because they presumably had to audition someone for the role, get them a uniform, and maybe even assign them shield-throwing practice.

But here's the condensed timeline of this ep: Sam fights Batroc's terrorists, then comes home and gives the shield to the Smithsonian. Bucky has therapy, then lunch with Yori, then a date with Leah. At some point in all this Torres flies to Germany. Torres does not succeed in breaking up the Flag-Smasher's bank robbery. Sam tries to help Sarah with the bank. Sam gets a call from Torres, then it goes right to breaking news that the government is unveiling nu Cap. Also, while Sarah's not in critical financial trouble such that she had to sell the boat immediately, she hasn't between the (Louisiana) bank scene and now.

By the way, if Sam is well-off from his superhero freelance gigs for the military and Sarah won't accept his charity, why doesn't he just buy the boat? (or her share of it, if he already inherited half)

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Well, the ceremony was certainly planned in advance, hence I guess they did have plenty time to pick and choose Walker beforehand.

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They could have been planning since shortly after Steve gave Sam the shield. The presentation would have taken time to prepare, but I think Sam must have spent some time debating what to do with it too. And the government could have been planning to replace "Cap" before Sam even decided. 

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On 4/2/2021 at 9:56 PM, arc said:

By the way, if Sam is well-off from his superhero freelance gigs for the military and Sarah won't accept his charity, why doesn't he just buy the boat? (or her share of it, if he already inherited half)

We don't know how well Sam's superhero contract gigs pay. And presumably, Sam doesn't have the time or inclination to personally run the family business.

But the answer is of course "artificial tension," since Sam even if we are to pretend that Sam does not have money and has no immediate prospects for getting sufficient extra money through his work, he could almost certainly get a private loan on the order of the (presumed) $200-500k range from friends or friends of friends like Pepper and Rhodey.

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On 3/19/2021 at 6:49 AM, Vanderboom said:

Shallow note: Both of them are ridiculously good-looking.

Yassssss. 
 

(I just got here- lots of life going on). 

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So, I am assuming Bucky stopped responding to Sam's text because he was told about the plan to donate the Shield to the museum, perhaps one of the texts was even an invite to the ceremony.

 

Was that the conclusion everybody else came to?

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1 hour ago, MochaJay said:

So, I am assuming Bucky stopped responding to Sam's text because he was told about the plan to donate the Shield to the museum, perhaps one of the texts was even an invite to the ceremony.

 

Was that the conclusion everybody else came to?

I took it as he was/is very guarded and shuts himself away from everyone

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1 hour ago, hoopznyo said:

I took it as he was/is very guarded and shuts himself away from everyone

That too, but his therapist did indicate that he was being particularly shut down during their session, compared to previous sessions.

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4 hours ago, MochaJay said:

So, I am assuming Bucky stopped responding to Sam's text because he was told about the plan to donate the Shield to the museum, perhaps one of the texts was even an invite to the ceremony.

 

Was that the conclusion everybody else came to?

I didn’t think about that at the time the episode aired, but it makes sense.

Edited by bethy

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