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Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

OtterMommy

By OtterMommy
in Everything Else TV

OtterMommy
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Lady Whistleup
Lady Whistleup

I just find it infuriating that we still want to look for "perfect victims." Victims are never perfect -- they're human. Amber Heard could be a truly shitty human being, and Johnny Depp could have abu

Proclone
Proclone

Exactly.  Heard isn't a perfect victim.  She's probably a deeply unpleasant toxic person, that doesn't hide particularly well...and none of that precludes her from being abused.  If you subscribe

Hiyo
Hiyo

The word "cancel" is like the word "woke", something that has been co-opted in a certain way by certain people for silly culture wars as a distraction from tackling real issues.

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Laura Holt

Laura Holt

Marilyn Manson Settles Lawsuit Over Sexual Assault and Abuse Allegations Before Trial Begins

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Marilyn Manson has reached a settlement agreement with a woman who accused him of rape, days before the trial was due to begin next week.

The anonymous woman alleged in a lawsuit filed in 2021 that Manson, whose real name is Brian Warner, had raped her and deprived her of food, sleep and safety in 2011. However, the case was settled on Wednesday in the Superior Court of California, County of Los Angeles according to a report from Rolling Stone on Thursday.

 

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Danielg342

Danielg342

19 hours ago, Jaded said:

Lizzo's lawyers ask judge to dismiss former dancers' lawsuit, deny harassment allegations

Standard procedure, really. Every defence team- whether it's a civil trial or a criminal trial- makes a motion before the trial begins to dismiss the case, usually, but not always, on technical grounds. The motion almost always fails, but sometimes it works- which is why the defence tries it.

So Lizzo's lawyers filing the motion isn't that significant. What would be significant is if the judge grants the motion. It doesn't mean the legal action is necessarily over- the other side has the ability to address the technicality and correct the mistake. This is what is happening in the Romeo and Juliet trial- the case was initially dismissed because the plaintiffs didn't file the lawsuit in time for the temporary suspension of California's statute of limitations to still apply to their case. In response, they will try the case in federal court.

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Danielg342

Danielg342

On 10/1/2023 at 4:54 AM, Quof said:

The law is both substantive and procedural.  It's not "technical", or "getting off on a technicality".  It's due process.

First, the article I linked to wrote that motions to dismiss are based on "technical grounds", and the article was written by a U.S. federal lawyer. So I'm assuming the lawyer knows what he's talking about and, besides, they're not exactly my words.

In any case, it's semantics really. No matter what we call the cornucopia of terms that cover the many ways something could be informally described as a "legal technicality", the truth is, "off on a technicality" is a Hollywood myth. Most of the time, if a case stalls because of an error made by a lawyer, the worst that happens is that the case simply gets re-filed and is heard at a later date. You'll never see, as Hollywood paints it, such a strong case fall apart simply because, say, a lawyer literally forgot to dot his "i's" in the briefing.

As it pertains to Lizzo's case, USA Today (and I'm sure other outlets) deeming the motion to dismiss as an important news story is a huge stretch. The motion is common, the motion almost always fails, and, even if it did succeed, the Lizzo case would be (likely) far from over- it would just have to get re-filed with the error corrected. The extent that it is "news" should simply be that it's something that happened during the trial and that's it- the motion itself is not monumental and shouldn't be treated as such.

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Jaded

Jaded

(edited)
5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

As it pertains to Lizzo's case, USA Today (and I'm sure other outlets) deeming the motion to dismiss as an important news story is a huge stretch. The motion is common, the motion almost always fails, and, even if it did succeed, the Lizzo case would be (likely) far from over- it would just have to get re-filed with the error corrected. The extent that it is "news" should simply be that it's something that happened during the trial and that's it- the motion itself is not monumental and shouldn't be treated as such.

 I'm really regretting having even posted about her lawyers filing that motion since it seems to be so unimportant that you've made multiple posts saying so.

Moving on...

Scientology whines that the Jane Does leaked info worse than Tom Mesereau did

Edited by Jaded
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Quof

Quof

5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

the article I linked to wrote that motions to dismiss are based on "technical grounds",

Don't get legal information from lawyers who advertise their services via blogs.  They write to the lowest common denominator, which in the US is a 7th-8th grade reading level. 

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Trini

Trini

'Gerard Depardieu, Indicted on Rape, Sexual Assault Charges, Pens Open Letter'

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French actor Gerard Depardieu, who is indicted on rape and sexual assault charges in connection to a 2018 case, has published an open letter claiming he’s “neither a rapist, nor a predator.”

In the brief letter, published in Le Figaro newspaper on Oct. 1, Depardieu alluded to the allegations of rape and sexual assault tied to a 2018 lawsuit filed by Charlotte Arnould, whose parents are old friends of his.

 

French source: https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/societe/gerard-depardieu-je-veux-enfin-vous-dire-ma-verite-20231001

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Danielg342

Danielg342

4 hours ago, Jaded said:

 I'm really regretting having even posted about her lawyers filing that motion since it seems to be so unimportant that you've made multiple posts saying so.

I'm sorry. It wasn't my intent to criticize you. Posting about it is important for anyone that wants to keep up with the trial.

I was critical of USA Today of writing a news piece treating the motion like it's some kind of monumental event in the trial when it isn't. They didn't mention at all that the motion to dismiss is pretty standard for trials and that filing the motion likely doesn't change the legal course of the case.

The USA Today piece feels like a very pro-Lizzo piece, if I'm being completely honest. They treat the motion like it was some act of defiance (when it's not) and spent a lot of time talking about how thankful Lizzo was for receiving positive news (getting an award) in her time of crisis. Barely any mention was made of the mere fact allegations were brought against her. I grant that the allegations were not proven, but I've seen other writers in other cases who seem to love re-hashing, in detail, the allegations that the court will eventually decide on. The USA Today writer treats the Lizzo allegations very vaguely, as if they almost don't exist.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

4 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

Disgraced Warner Bros. Producer Arrested for “Forcible Touching” at Bar Mitzvah

Ha. Literally 2 minutes ago I saw a tweet by Mo Ryan where she talks about a 2017 article she wrote on Andrew Kriesberg where 19 different sources spoke to her about his harassment and inappropriate behavior.  I idly wondered why that came onto my timeline.  And I see this is why.  Heh.

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bluegirl147

bluegirl147

22 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

Disgraced Warner Bros. Producer Arrested for “Forcible Touching” at Bar Mitzvah

From the article:

In the statement to Vanity Fair, the full text of which can be found at the end of this story, his lawyer Stacey Richman writes, “Mr. Kreisberg remains a very talented creative person. He is misunderstood for being a neurodivergent individual who is socially awkward. Your article will be another event of the ableist bullying of people who are neurodivergent as they are misperceived.”

 

That is his defense?  What a piece of shit.

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BetterButter

BetterButter

Julia Ormond Sues Harvey Weinstein for Battery, CAA and Disney as Enablers of Sexual Assault (EXCLUSIVE)

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Julia Ormond, the English actress best known for her roles in ’90s films such as “Legends of the Fall,” “First Knight” and “Smilla’s Sense of Snow,” is suing Harvey Weinstein for sexual battery.

 

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Lugal

Lugal

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

From the article:

In the statement to Vanity Fair, the full text of which can be found at the end of this story, his lawyer Stacey Richman writes, “Mr. Kreisberg remains a very talented creative person. He is misunderstood for being a neurodivergent individual who is socially awkward. Your article will be another event of the ableist bullying of people who are neurodivergent as they are misperceived.”

 

That is his defense?  What a piece of shit.

Wow, talk about the weaponization of identity politics!  He would have been better off saying he identifies as a dog.  He's not misunderstood for being neurodivergent, or socially awkward.  Because lots of neurodivergent and socially awkward people still know you don't just rub yourself against random women.

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Zella

Zella

6 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I haven't heard Julie Ormond's name in probably over 25 years. So yeah I bet she was blacklisted.

She had a somewhat prominent supporting role in the later seasons of Mad Men. The fact that was TV and not movies may very well be connected to a Weinstein blackball since my understanding is he was much more of an influencer in film than TV. 

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

On 10/4/2023 at 1:29 PM, BetterButter said:

Julia Ormond Sues Harvey Weinstein for Battery, CAA and Disney as Enablers of Sexual Assault (EXCLUSIVE)

 

What is interesting is that she is also suing Disney since Weinstein was a Disney employee at the time, so they should also have some liability. Which makes me wonder why no one else has tried this yet for Weinstein or anyone else. I had to take one law class in university and even then I remember that an employer being liable for the actions of their employees is a pretty standard legal thing.

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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

Jason Derulo Sued for Sexual Misconduct and Intimidation

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“While recording music, Derulo informed Plaintiff that if she wanted to be successful in the ‘this business’ (aka, the music industry), Plaintiff would be required to partake in ‘goat skin and fish scales,’ which is a Haitian reference referring to conducting sex rituals, sacrificing a goat, goat blood and doing cocaine,” the lawsuit reads, according to documents obtained by Vulture. The filing alleges that the “explicit demand for sex-in-exchange-for-success was reinforced through Derulo’s subsequent behavior.” When Gibson finally gave in to an “invitation for drinks” at a recording studio around September 2021, Derulo allegedly gave her an “inappropriate” amount of alcohol despite the fact that she’s not a big drinker. During a business trip to New York to meet Atlantic executives that November, another female artist appeared to suggest Gibson sleep with him to advance her career, which confirmed her suspicions about Derulo’s intentions. Other alleged incidents of hostility include Derulo charging at Gibson, raising his voice, and refusing to record with her. Her contract was terminated in September 2022.

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BetterButter

BetterButter

Second Woman Accuses Composer Danny Elfman of Sexual Abuse in New Lawsuit

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The accuser, a 47-year-old Jane Doe in Maryland, is alleging sexual abuse from 1997 to 2002, beginning when she was 21 years old. Her claims mirror another case brought against Elfman in 2018.

 

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JustHereForFood

JustHereForFood

8 hours ago, BetterButter said:

Second Woman Accuses Composer Danny Elfman of Sexual Abuse in New Lawsuit

 

Obviously his behavior is disturbing, but I hope we can question why she would sleep next to him when he was naked if they did not have relationship? Or why she, as an adult agreed to strip naked in from of him despite being uncomfortable? 

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Bastet

Bastet

5 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

Obviously his behavior is disturbing, but I hope we can question why she would sleep next to him when he was naked if they did not have relationship? Or why she, as an adult agreed to strip naked in from of him despite being uncomfortable? 

I don't see in that article where she agreed to strip naked in front of him, but the answer to why she did anything is right there in the complaint:

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Due to Elfman’s prominence in the entertainment industry, the plaintiff felt “she had no choice but to always comply with his requests, and Plaintiff felt this was a condition of their continued relationship.”

 

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JustHereForFood

JustHereForFood

53 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I don't see in that article where she agreed to strip naked in front of him, but the answer to why she did anything is right there in the complaint:

 

In this article Oscar-nominated composer Danny Elfman accused of sexual assault by second woman, it was worded this way:

Quote

First, she alleged, he would routinely take off all his clothing in her presence and asked her to strip naked too – a request she agreed to because she saw him as a valuable mentor and “always felt the imbalance of power and pressure to act a certain way … [as] a condition of their continued relationship”.

Obviously, what he did was wrong, but I'm not sure if that is illegal (the masturbation is a different matter) if she complied and doesn't specify if she even told him she was uncomfortable. If she just felt she was under pressure, that doesn't have to mean that he effectively blackmailed her, he could have thought she was fine with it and that it wasn't a condition to their working relationship. I am wondering what he will say when he, as they say "he will vigorously defend these claims in court."

 

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Guest

Guest

2 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

In this article Oscar-nominated composer Danny Elfman accused of sexual assault by second woman, it was worded this way:

Quote

First, she alleged, he would routinely take off all his clothing in her presence and asked her to strip naked too – a request she agreed to because she saw him as a valuable mentor and “always felt the imbalance of power and pressure to act a certain way … [as] a condition of their continued relationship”.

The LA Times story has more details. She says that one time he coerced her to strip with him and she did. Coercion nullifies any consent. 

2 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I am wondering what he will say when he, as they say "he will vigorously defend these claims in court."

He probably won’t say anything.  He already settled a similar case. 

JustHereForFood

JustHereForFood

On 10/21/2023 at 1:25 AM, Dani said:

The LA Times story has more details. She says that one time he coerced her to strip with him and she did. Coercion nullifies any consent. 

He probably won’t say anything.  He already settled a similar case. 

Thank you. I hope I didn't sound like I'm blaming her, as that was not my intention and I'm sorry if it sounded like that. I just don't really understand why she would live in his house and sleep next to him if she was uncomfortable by his behavior. That's why I was also interested in what he would say about this, whether he would say she's lying which would imply to me that he knew what he did was wrong, or that what she says is true and he just didn't find it inappropriate which would IMO point to a different problem. We have already seen with many comedians that some men don't seem to realize that exposing themselves without asking first is not appropriate and I just wonder if people around them have been unintentionally perpetuating this by just going along with it and not telling them it's making them uncomfortable.

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Zella

Zella

37 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

. I just don't really understand why she would live in his house and sleep next to him if she was uncomfortable by his behavior.

Every day, many people throughout the world are living with and sleeping next to their abusers. 

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Guest

Guest

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

Thank you. I hope I didn't sound like I'm blaming her, as that was not my intention and I'm sorry if it sounded like that. I just don't really understand why she would live in his house and sleep next to him if she was uncomfortable by his behavior.

I think it’s normal to try and explain behavior from our individual prospective. Someone with healthy boundaries would be unlikely to make those choices but healthy boundaries are rarely taught to kids. Kids, young girls in particular, are frequently taught to sacrifice their own comfort to please others. To ignore their instincts rather than risk offending anyone. And abusers are smart. They know how to spot those most susceptible and slowly erode boundaries. They know how to manipulate. 

Zella

Zella

Just now, Dani said:

I think it’s normal to try and explain behavior from out individual prospective. Someone with a healthy boundaries would be unlikely to make those choices but healthy boundaries are rarely taught to kids. Kids, young girls in particular, are frequently taught to sacrifice their own comfort to please others. To ignore their instincts rather than risk offending anyone. And abusers are smart. They know how to spot those most susceptible and slowly erode boundaries. They know how to manipulate. 

Yes when we have conversations on here about abusive people and why women stick around, I always think about 2 of my friends from college. They're both very intelligent, accomplished women in their own right. They're both also finally getting divorced from the abusive pieces of shit they married shortly after college. In both cases, it took over 10 years. And when they were dating and getting married, none of us in my circle of friends really clocked what was happening as abuse. Now to be clear, none of us liked their husbands. We all thought the guys were assholes and their wives deserved better. But I don't think any of really identified what was happening as abuse since it was never physical to our knowledge instead of just "Wow he's an asshole." It's only now that we all recognize it for what it is, and in both cases, what was happening behind the scenes was even worse than what we knew about.

I've talked a lot more about it with one of them, and I was also much more forceful in trying to warn her about her husband before they got married. I finally realized if I wanted to maintain the friendship, I'd have to stop shit-talking him and I did for a long time. Both of them had different troubled childhoods that left them very vulnerable to wanting approval from other people and/or excusing bad behavior as normal. The friend I've discussed it with the most told me she knew shortly after marrying him that she'd made a horrible mistake, but they still didn't separate for another 10 years. 

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Trini

Trini

On 10/22/2023 at 10:25 AM, JustHereForFood said:

We have already seen with many comedians that some men don't seem to realize that exposing themselves without asking first is not appropriate

Oh no -- they KNOW they're wrong. Having an unwilling 'audience' is the point.

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Guest

Guest

Jonathan Majors Domestic-Violence Case Now Involves London Police

This is the first time we are getting a peek at the prosecution’s case. The part about there being no video and the cab driver saying he didn’t make the statement is particularly illuminating. 

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Prosecutors have disclosed in court documents they obtained a police report prepared by Metropolitan Police. While it’s unclear the nature of the police report, prosecutors also noted they have obtained the woman’s medical records and subsequent treatment related to a previously undisclosed September 2022 incident. (A Metropolitan Police spokesperson declined to comment on any case until a person is charged with an offense.)

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In the recent motion, prosecutors said the fight started when the woman observed Majors receive a text message to the effect of, “Wish I was kissing you right now.” When the woman attempted to grab the phone, Majors allegedly twisted her arm and struck her, according to her police complaint. Majors then exited the car and when the woman tried to follow him, he allegedly grabbed her, picked her up, and threw her back inside the car. The woman “sustained substantial pain, including a fractured finger, bruising about her body, a laceration behind her right ear, and a bump on her head,” according to the motion.

Quote

Prosecutors also claim in court papers that while Majors’ legal team has told the press that “video of the incident existed,” there is no video of the alleged attack. Similarly, prosecutors have claimed that Majors’ lawyers provided them a witness statement from the driver of the taxi cab in which the driver supposedly claimed he had seen the woman attack Majors. However, prosecutors claim when they showed the statement to the driver, he stated that he “had never written it, approved it, did not previously know it existed, and that the above statements were all false,” according to the motion.

 

James Moar

James Moar

16 hours ago, Dani said:

Jonathan Majors Domestic-Violence Case Now Involves London Police

This is the first time we are getting a peek at the prosecution’s case. The part about there being no video and the cab driver saying he didn’t make the statement is particularly illuminating. 

 

The bit about the driver apparently not having seen his ‘witness statement’ is very similar to a bit in this earlier Rolling Stone article about character witnesses for Majors — one said that hers was prewritten and not truthful, others hadn’t consented to release a statement: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/jonathan-majors-abuse-allegations-yale-1234781136/

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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

Jonathan Majors’ bodybuilding movie pulled from Disney release schedule

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“Magazine Dreams,” a movie in which Majors plays an amateur bodybuilder, was originally slated for release on December 8. In an email shared with CNN on Friday, the studio indicated the film no longer has a release date.

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

(edited)

Here’s anther link about it.
 

https://www.tmz.com/2023/11/04/steven-tyler-accuser-filed-lawsuit-beat-statute-of-limitations-aerosmith/

 Weren’t we discussing why Tyler revealed so much about his activities with young women in his books on this thread a while ago? 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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Zella

Zella

10 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Here’s anther link about it.
 

https://www.tmz.com/2023/11/04/steven-tyler-accuser-filed-lawsuit-beat-statute-of-limitations-aerosmith/

 Weren’t we discussing why Tyler revealed so much about his activities with young women in his books on this thread a while ago? 

I was just reading yesterday, legal experts are saying that Tyler admitted so much publicly in that book, he's going to have a really hard time explaining away all those very damning admissions about the first case in court. 

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Trini

Trini

This is kind of a weird one (also falls under "other aggressions", not sexual assault, to be clear): allegations against Aaron Eckhart have come out because a studio is suing Abigial Breslin because they lost a tax credit because of her (alleged) breach of contract:

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/abigail-breslin-aaron-eckhart-lawsuit-1234869196/

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

On 11/4/2023 at 9:33 PM, Trini said:

This is kind of a weird one (also falls under "other aggressions", not sexual assault, to be clear): allegations against Aaron Eckhart have come out because a studio is suing Abigial Breslin because they lost a tax credit because of her (alleged) breach of contract:

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/abigail-breslin-aaron-eckhart-lawsuit-1234869196/

There's not enough info here to really give an opinion to the allegations, but the production's response is not a good look in 2023.  Calling a woman's allegations "wild, hysterical and imaginary" is not doing what you think it is.  None of those adjectives are necessary.

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OtterMommy
Message added by OtterMommy

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