Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[Blergh]

I don't claim to have ever met Mr. Depp, Miss Heard or Miss Paradis- much less have insight into any of the above's MO's.

However, it wouldn't come as a total surprise to me if Miss Paradis were to  believe that since Mr. Depp didn't marry her (in spite of her having been with him for over a decade and having had two children with him), if Mr. Depp DID physically harm Miss Heard, Miss Paradis might consider it to be Miss Heard's 'just desserts' for having 'gotten' Mr. Depp to marry HER instead of Miss Paradis.  IOW, 'he abused me when I didn't deserve it but since she 'stole' him from me, she DID deserve to suffer for it').

As I said, I don't claim to know the MO's but it wouldn't come as total surprise to me if that WERE the case.

[Hiyo]

Quote

However, it wouldn't come as a total surprise to me if Miss Paradis were to  believe that since Mr. Depp didn't marry her (in spite of her having been with him for over a decade and having had two children with him), if Mr. Depp DID physically harm Miss Heard, Miss Paradis might consider it to be Miss Heard's 'just desserts' for having 'gotten' Mr. Depp to marry HER instead of Miss Paradis.  IOW, 'he abused me when I didn't deserve it but since she 'stole' him from me, she DID deserve to suffer for it').

That's a lot of negative assumptions to assign to people whose MO's we barely know...

The only I take from all of this is that Depp and Heard were assholes to each other and the best thing for both of them is to just walk away and forget that the other even existed.

[Columbo]

I find the word cancelling weird because it seems to be applied equally to a celebrity who says or tweets something stupidly offensive and a celebrity who is a rapist or a pedophile. When the definition of who gets cancelled is that wide then it's hard to take cancellation seriously.

 

Besides I'm not sure cancellation even works anyway. Most celebrities who are cancelled seem to be working.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Columbo said:

I find the word cancelling weird because it seems to be applied equally to a celebrity who says or tweets something stupidly offensive and a celebrity who is a rapist or a pedophile. When the definition of who gets cancelled is that wide then it's hard to take cancellation seriously.

 

Besides I'm not sure cancellation even works anyway. Most celebrities who are cancelled seem to be working.

As with a lot of words that originated within social justice circles cancel has been co-opted in a way that has made it virtually meaningless and is more frequently used to provoke outrage in a attempt to obscure legitimate issues. Originally it was roughly the equivalent to boycott. It wasn’t viewed as a universal thing but just a way of expressing a desire to stop supporting someone or something. Once upon a time it had a meaning and now it doesn’t. It the same as with woke. It started as a very specific thing and now it is a dog whistle that is used incorrectly most of the time it is used. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Guest

[bluegirl147]

9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

The only I take from all of this is that Depp and Heard were assholes to each other and the best thing for both of them is to just walk away and forget that the other even existed.

I agree. They seemed to have brought the worst out in each other.  

[SusanM]

 I do have to wonder, in the case of marriage/long term relationship, how it is that, apparently, Depp was only violent with one wife and doesn't seem to have behaved that way with the other women in his life.  I don't think I've ever heard of a man who was abusive to one partner and never with another.  If that's actually the case with Depp I think it speaks more to the specific relationship he had with Heard than the idea that predators don't prey on everyone they meet.

[JustHereForFood]

9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

The only I take from all of this is that Depp and Heard were assholes to each other and the best thing for both of them is to just walk away and forget that the other even existed.

That is my take from it too, though I haven't followed it too closely and I confess to starting to dislike Depp even before that, so I am probably not completely objective. But I don't like how many people on the internet seem to be of the opinion that Heard is the only abuser and Depp is clearly just a victim, especially if they often add how much they like his movies. Prejudice much? 

[Anduin]

38 minutes ago, SusanM said:

 I do have to wonder, in the case of marriage/long term relationship, how it is that, apparently, Depp was only violent with one wife and doesn't seem to have behaved that way with the other women in his life.  I don't think I've ever heard of a man who was abusive to one partner and never with another.  If that's actually the case with Depp I think it speaks more to the specific relationship he had with Heard than the idea that predators don't prey on everyone they meet.

Or all that partying/substance abuse catching up on his brain.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Or all that partying/substance abuse catching up on his brain.

This is what I really don’t understand about the argument that he is a gentle soul who wouldn’t hurt a fly. He does have a history of violence against strangers and inanimate objects. We know that he was abusing multiple substances. How can anyone, even him, say with certainty he wouldn’t cross the line from slamming doors and throwing things to hitting her when he is high as a kite or black out drunk. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Guest

[BlackberryJam]

50 minutes ago, SusanM said:

 I do have to wonder, in the case of marriage/long term relationship, how it is that, apparently, Depp was only violent with one wife and doesn't seem to have behaved that way with the other women in his life.  I don't think I've ever heard of a man who was abusive to one partner and never with another.  If that's actually the case with Depp I think it speaks more to the specific relationship he had with Heard than the idea that predators don't prey on everyone they meet.

Twenty seven years into my career, I can absolutely assure you that a spouse can have had other positive relationships in the past, and when in a toxic marriage, becomes horrifically violent and abusive. Not all abusers are serial abusers.

Depp has even said that Amber triggered him. The thing about the term, "triggered" is it means "caused to act." A person's poor behavior isn't a reason for the other person to be physically violent. No doubt Amber screamed, yelled, threw things, but Johnny hit, kicked, pulled hair. Marriage nightmares are made of. 

[ginger90]

6 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Twenty seven years into my career, I can absolutely assure you that a spouse can have had other positive relationships in the past, and when in a toxic marriage, becomes horrifically violent and abusive. Not all abusers are serial abusers.

Depp has even said that Amber triggered him. The thing about the term, "triggered" is it means "caused to act." A person's poor behavior isn't a reason for the other person to be physically violent. No doubt Amber screamed, yelled, threw things, but Johnny hit, kicked, pulled hair. Marriage nightmares are made of. 

“Look what you made me do”…….

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, Dani said:

He does have a history of violence against strangers and inanimate objects

Wasn't he trashing  hotel rooms back in the 90s when he was with Wynona Ryder?

5 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Depp has even said that Amber triggered him. The thing about the term, "triggered" is it means "caused to act." A person's poor behavior isn't a reason for the other person to be physically violent. No doubt Amber screamed, yelled, threw things, but Johnny hit, kicked, pulled hair. Marriage nightmares are made of. 

Isn't that the go to defense for people who commit domestic violence?  You made me do it.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

This is what I really don’t understand about the argument that he is a gentle soul who wouldn’t hurt a fly. He does have a history of violence against strangers and inanimate objects. We know that he was abusing multiple substances. How can anyone, even him, say with certainty he wouldn’t cross the line from slamming doors and throwing things to hitting her when he is high as a kite or black out drunk. 

Johnny may never remember being violent with Amber, but that does not mean he was never violent.  I also remember on one of these threads (I believe it's the archived celebrity news one) where TMZ or someone else published a story with a video Amber took of Johnny.  In the video, Johnny is yelling and slamming cabinet doors.  Amber was also egging him as she secretly recorded Johnny having one of his episodes.  It felt like Amber was intentionally pushing Johnny's buttons while he was already high or drunk and agitated.  She wanted video evidence of him being violent.  She didn't get it in that particular video though.  But, he was abusive, and that's the crux of this lawsuit.  Abuse is more than physical violence.  Couple that with the writing in question being an OpEd, and I don't see how he really has a case.  I believe the sentence in question for this lawsuit is Amber saying she was in an abusive relationship or called herself an abused woman.  She never mentions Johnny by name.  

[FilmTVGeek80]

On 4/19/2022 at 6:35 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Or it can not and you can win a Grammy a mere 5 years later.

 

People can come back from attempted cancellation. Most don't ever make it fully back. Sure, Louis CK won a grammy, but that doesn't mean he's back. It's not like Louis CK is starring in animated movies and has his own tv show. Look at all the hate CK got for winning that Grammy. Just because he won it doesn't suddenly mean his reputation isn't still destroyed). To pretend that people social media don't try and cancel people makes as much sense to me as saying when attempt to kill someone, but they survive, means the attempt wasn't real. No one can truly be permanently cancelled unless they're dead, but it doesn't mean people don't try like hell to make it happen.

8 hours ago, Dani said:

This is what I really don’t understand about the argument that he is a gentle soul who wouldn’t hurt a fly. He does have a history of violence against strangers and inanimate objects. We know that he was abusing multiple substances. How can anyone, even him, say with certainty he wouldn’t cross the line from slamming doors and throwing things to hitting her when he is high as a kite or black out drunk. 

Because he - and the other people closest to him - know the kind of person he is. Just because someone is high as a kite doesn't automatically make them violent with their spouses and/or loved ones. Just because Johnny has a history of property damage and getting into fights doesn't mean he would get violent with anyone else. 

8 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

 

Depp has even said that Amber triggered him. The thing about the term, "triggered" is it means "caused to act." A person's poor behavior isn't a reason for the other person to be physically violent. No doubt Amber screamed, yelled, threw things, but Johnny hit, kicked, pulled hair. Marriage nightmares are made of. 

She hit him as well, I'm not sure why you're leaving that out when that admission comes from her own words and from the therapist's testimony. And, yes someone's "poor behavior" can be cause for someone to be physically violent. If someone is lobbing heavy projectiles at you and slapping the shit out of you, they don't get to then whine and cry and claim abuse if that person defends themselves. Also, the therapist used the phrased "triggered" as well.

Quote

Couple that with the writing in question being an OpEd, and I don't see how he really has a case.  I believe the sentence in question for this lawsuit is Amber saying she was in an abusive relationship or called herself an abused woman.  She never mentions Johnny by name.  

Amber Heard tried to get the case tossed several times. If not mentioning him by name made the case meritless, I would think the judge would have tossed it. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by FilmTVGeek80

[Cinnabon]

If someone is slapping and hitting you, the appropriate behavior is to walk away (if possible), not reciprocate the violence.

[SusanM]

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

If someone is slapping and hitting you, the appropriate behavior is to walk away (if possible), not reciprocate the violence.

Absolutely but the idea that someone should not retaliate makes me uncomfortable.  I've seen too many "zero tolerance for violence" situations in schools where a bullied child finally snaps and fights back and they're the one who gets punished because they should have walked away.   If you've been walking away and the bullying continues sometimes enough is enough. 

In some ways it sounds like the Depp Heard relationship is what happens when two bullies meet.   

[JustHereForFood]

44 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

If someone is slapping and hitting you, the appropriate behavior is to walk away (if possible), not reciprocate the violence.

Sorry, what? Taken out of context, this is BS. Of course you are entitled to fight back if someone attacks you.

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

People can come back from attempted cancellation. Most don't ever make it fully back. Sure, Louis CK won a grammy, but that doesn't mean he's back. It's not like Louis CK is starring in animated movies and has his own tv show. Look at all the hate CK got for winning that Grammy. Just because he won it doesn't suddenly mean his reputation isn't still destroyed). To pretend that people social media don't try and cancel people makes as much sense to me as saying when attempt to kill someone, but they survive, means the attempt wasn't real. No one can truly be permanently cancelled unless they're dead, but it doesn't mean people don't try like hell to make it happen.

It's consequences, not cancellation.

Poor abusers, having their reputations destroyes for things they did. Cry me a river.

Edited April 20, 2022 by JustHereForFood

[Blergh]

19 hours ago, Hiyo said:

That's a lot of negative assumptions to assign to people whose MO's we barely know...

 

Perhaps, but just because they are negative assumptions doesn't make the MO's any of us have speculated impossibilities. FWIW, Miss Paradis seems to be the least unlikable of the three but I'm still not entirely sure her siding the Mr. Depp is entirely JUST for her offspring's sake (or sentimentality about Mr. Depp) instead of possibly considering Mr. Depp's alleged abuse of Miss Heard to have been Miss Heard's just desserts. And, as I said, I've never met any of them and don't claim to know their MO's but if that IS Miss Paradis's MO in that, it would not come as a total surprise to me!

[Blergh]

9 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Twenty seven years into my career, I can absolutely assure you that a spouse can have had other positive relationships in the past, and when in a toxic marriage, becomes horrifically violent and abusive. Not all abusers are serial abusers.

 

I agree! There HAVE been parents out there who mercilessly beat one of their offspring like carpets while treating another one like fine China. That doesn't mean that one child was good and the other wasn't (and the victim did nothing to deserve it) but many parents are capable of playing favorites even to this extreme!  

Thus, it's by no means impossible that an adult can treat one spouse/companion like dirt and another like gold (with the victim doing nothing to deserve it). 

[Stats Queen]

1 hour ago, SusanM said:

Absolutely but the idea that someone should not retaliate makes me uncomfortable.  I've seen too many "zero tolerance for violence" situations in schools where a bullied child finally snaps and fights back and they're the one who gets punished because they should have walked away.   If you've been walking away and the bullying continues sometimes enough is enough. 

In some ways it sounds like the Depp Heard relationship is what happens when two bullies meet.   

My ex husband was incredibly abusive to me, and I was lucky to get out alive. When I decided to “walk away” he jumped on the hood of my car, but I kept driving. 

People do snap.

I was lucky to get out alive and if her prevented me from leaving one of us would be dead.  
When I moved my stuff out of you condo, I found that he had a loaded gun between the mattresses.

Seems like the Depp Heard situation is even more complex.

No matter what had happened in my situation, it is doubtful that I would win in a court of law since everything he did to me was when no one else was around and this was in 1990s long before the Internet or being able to just press a button on your phone and record what is going on.

[SunnyBeBe]

I recall that video Amber made some time ago, but I saw no indication of her egging him on. She stayed calm and asked him simple questions like why he went into a rage.  His response was outrageous and to me it was obvious he was a rage person.  I haven’t been impressed with his testimony.  I wonder what will happen if he loses his case again and Amber wins hers. 😲I bet that would set off his rage.  

[SusanM]

37 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

No matter what had happened in my situation, it is doubtful that I would win in a court of law since everything he did to me was when no one else was around and this was in 1990s long before the Internet or being able to just press a button on your phone and record what is going on.

Even now there are very often little to no consequences for men who mistreat women.  At least with the women I know personally who have been in crappy relationships anyway.   My niece was involved with a master manipulator who knew exactly how to behave whenever others were around - but made sure that others weren't around much.  A classic sign.

I don't know the ins and outs of Depp and Heard but most of what I've read make it seem like she's a pretty terrible person in her own right (I mean if she actually spit in the face of an employee who asked for a raise, jeeze) but Depp is a walking nightmare.

Sometimes there is no good guy.

Edited April 21, 2022 by SusanM

[aradia22]

Quote

Allegations against Elgort first surfaced in June 2020. [...] Elgort stayed pretty quiet for the next year or so — until December 2021, when he reactivated his Instagram to promote West Side Story. The movie had been filmed during the summer of 2019 and pushed to a later release date due to the pandemic, meaning the allegations against Elgort had come out after production but well before the movie was slated to hit theaters.

Quote

The actor participated in group interviews but declined to do any press on his own, and his female co-stars — chief among them Zegler, who played his love interest in the movie — were the ones often asked about the allegations. At the time, Zegler and her castmates hedged. “We made a movie two and a half years ago, and a lot has gone on in the world since then,” she told The Hollywood Reporter in January. “You just hope that the people involved are okay, that they are asked in a respectful manner, and that they are given the opportunity to answer for themselves.” [...] Zegler addressed Elgort’s accuser, saying, “I cannot imagine what she had to go through,” before concluding, “I really don’t have anything to do with this conversation, and I’m looking forward to moving past it.”

https://www.thecut.com/2022/04/rachel-zegler-done-answering-for-ansel-elgort.html

I think it was a complicated position to be in because the allegations came out after the movie had been filmed. I don't see an issue with asking people who choose to work with Woody Allen about that decision. But also, people in Hollywood tend to not make strident statements unless it's about their own issues. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by aradia22
added link

[Columbo]

What is Depp hoping to gain with this defamation trial beyond financial motive?

[Guest]

16 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

People can come back from attempted cancellation. Most don't ever make it fully back. Sure, Louis CK won a grammy, but that doesn't mean he's back. It's not like Louis CK is starring in animated movies and has his own tv show. Look at all the hate CK got for winning that Grammy. Just because he won it doesn't suddenly mean his reputation isn't still destroyed). To pretend that people social media don't try and cancel people makes as much sense to me as saying when attempt to kill someone, but they survive, means the attempt wasn't real. No one can truly be permanently cancelled unless they're dead, but it doesn't mean people don't try like hell to make it happen.

Is there a problem with that? Louis CK is one those people that everyone should support having lasting consequences because his accusations easily passes the proof bar. He admits to what he did. He has no defense. He did it. Why shouldn’t people try to “cancel” someone like that? 

Comparing him experiencing a lasting impact as a result of what happened to most other examples is a false equivalency. If anything he proves that cancel culture doesn’t really exist. What does exist is that people in the public eye have jobs that require the support of the public and when they do something that the public has a problem with it hurts their career. No one is obligated to support a celebrity. It’s really no different than a bad movie bombing because audiences don’t like it. Celebrities do things that make consumers of media not like them and they stop consuming that media. It’s not a grand conspiracy. 

11 hours ago, aradia22 said:

https://www.thecut.com/2022/04/rachel-zegler-done-answering-for-ansel-elgort.html

I think it was a complicated position to be in because the allegations came out after the movie had been filmed. I don't see an issue with asking people who choose to work with Woody Allen about that decision. But also, people in Hollywood tend to not make strident statements unless it's about their own issues. 

I find it really unfair that people are putting that on Rachel. Even if was known before hand she had nothing to do with production decisions on that movie. She walked on to that set with zero clout. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Guest

[Vermicious Knid]

Pretty long article, Mega Dance Company Bred Culture Of Sex And Silence, Dancers Say. Too much to summarize but this should give you the gist.
 

Quote

 

Break the Floor’s reach extends across the entertainment industry to some of the biggest names in music, television and social media. Alumni and faculty have danced on stage with Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift, at the Oscars and the Super Bowl. Company instructors have appeared on “Dancing with the Stars,” “Dance Moms” and “So You Think You Can Dance.” When COVID-19 lockdowns suspended in-person workshops, Break the Floor enlisted social media superstar Charli D’Amelio, whose TikTok account has around 10.5 billion likes, to record instructional videos...

Allegations of sexual misconduct first hit the dance company in October, when the Toronto Star revealed allegations of widespread sexual harassment and predatory behavior by Break the Floor instructors....

An ongoing investigation by the Star in partnership with the AP now has uncovered alleged sexual misconduct that stretches back to the dance company’s early years, and involves [founder] Stroming himself.

Stroming was allegedly involved in a series of inappropriate relationships with students of the dance program he was running, according to more than a dozen former staff and students.

Of these sources, four say he sometimes brought young Break the Floor participants to parties or company events, where they were introduced as his girlfriend. Seven sources say they saw Stroming interact with students in ways that appeared intimate and inappropriate. One staff member said Stroming showed him a nude photo of one of the students...

Marci A. Hamilton, a University of Pennsylvania professor who founded CHILD USA and is the author of “Justice Denied: What America Must Do to Protect its Children,” said dance is one of the last forums where adults have unsupervised access to younger students.

“Dance organizations create wide opportunities for adults to single out a child, groom them and then get them alone to sexually abuse them,” she said. “The dance world, it’s not like it’s different than any other world, it’s just that they’ve been able to keep their secrets longer.”

Hamilton also said perpetrators in many youth-focused organizations use hotel rooms — away from home — to exploit the power imbalance between teachers and students....

The combination of hyper-sexual dance content and the close contact between adult teachers and the young dancers creates an atmosphere ripe for abuse, said Jamal Story, a professional dancer who is co-chair of the National Dance Committee for The Screen Actors Guild - American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA).

“Professional dancers suffer a wide swath of sexual predation from irritating flirtation to full-out devastating attacks. And what’s egregious about seeing it in the context of conventions is that it happens to kids. Nowhere in the world of education should students feel they are underneath the predators,” he said.

 

The article also states Travis Wall, who has become famous as a dancer and choreographer on SYTYCD, worked at Break the Floor and was fired after allegations of sexual misconduct.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Is there a problem with that? Louis CK is one those people that everyone should support having lasting consequences because his accusations easily passes the proof bar. He admits to what he did. He has no defense. He did it. Why shouldn’t people try to “cancel” someone like that? 

This. I hear people say all the time with accusations like this, "Where's the proof? Where's the confession?" and so on. Yet even when there is proof, even when the person actively confesses to doing the stuff they're accused of doing, they still have their defenders and still have people insisting that they shouldn't be punished. That tells me it's less about people genuinely caring about the whole "innocent until proven guilty" argument that people often like to trot out in these situations, and more about people wanting to defend a celebrity simply because, as another poster here recently said, they like the celebrity. If one doesn't like the celebrity being accused, they're far less generous in rushing to defend them and demanding proof and evidence. 

Not saying there aren't people out there who genuinely do care about the legal issues involved, but I wish most people who defend celebrities in these kinds of situations would just be honest about why they're defending them. It's because you like them. Period. Just admit it already and quit trying to act like you're some legal/justice expert all of a sudden. 

(General "you" being referenced here, just to be clear.) 

Quote

Comparing him experiencing a lasting impact as a result of what happened to most other examples is a false equivalency. If anything he proves that cancel culture doesn’t really exist. What does exist is that people in the public eye have jobs that require the support of the public and when they do something that the public has a problem with it hurts their career. No one is obligated to support a celebrity. It’s really no different than a bad movie bombing because audiences don’t like it. Celebrities do things that make consumers of media not like them and they stop consuming that media. It’s not a grand conspiracy. 

This. I've also noticed a lot of people don't seem to understand that a lot of jobs, at least in the States, qualify as "at will" employment. That means that a business can fire somebody at any time, for any reason*, and hell, they don't even have to have a reason. They can fire someone just for the hell of it. Just the fact that a celebrity's been accused and is potentially tainting the show/network's brand can be enough of a reason for them to be let go. It doesn't have to go any deeper than that. One may find that unfair, but the fact remains that the company's still well within their rights to do that. 

*(Obvious exceptions being some form of discrimination, but hell, many businesses have still found ways to get around those laws and fire people, too, so...)

I'd also point out that many of these celebrities who've been fired are very wealthy people who brought in a lot of money and prestige for where they worked. Generally, a business doesn't let go of someone like that just for the hell of it. So if they're letting go of someone who's their golden goose, that speaks volumes. At best, it means the company's that deeply afraid that the person being accused is going to have a genuinely negative effect on their business. At worst, it's because where there's smoke, there's a whole lotta fire. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Annber03

[Columbo]

It's amazing the knots all the Louis C.K. supporters get into trying to defend his behaviour.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 hours ago, Columbo said:

What is Depp hoping to gain with this defamation trial beyond financial motive?

Honestly,  he hates Amber so much and wants.to see her suffer.  It's far easier to blame her for his acting career drying up than it is for him to admit his almost 40 year love affair with alcohol and drugs are to blame.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Ohiopirate02

[AstaCharles]

 

I thought this was an interesting read 

https://variety.com/2022/streaming/news/rebecca-corry-speaks-up-comedian-louis-ck-grammys-dogs-1235233799/

[Hiyo]

Quote

Miss Paradis seems to be the least unlikable of the three

I dunno, I've always liked her.

Quote

I'm still not entirely sure her siding the Mr. Depp is entirely JUST for her offspring's sake (or sentimentality about Mr. Depp) instead of possibly considering Mr. Depp's alleged abuse of Miss Heard to have been Miss Heard's just desserts.

Or just as possible that she also never experienced that behavior from him?

Depp and Heard didn't ever start dating until years after Depp and Paradis ended their relationship, so I'm not sure why Paradis is considered to be some bitter jealous woman who feels like Heard "won" something over her.

 

[bluegirl147]

28 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Depp and Heard didn't ever start dating until years after Depp and Paradis ended their relationship, so I'm not sure why Paradis is considered to be some bitter jealous woman who feels like Heard "won" something over her.

 

I've read on this board if it's true it would be because Depp married Amber and not Vanessa.  But for all we know Vanessa didn't want to marry Depp.

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

. I hear people say all the time with accusations like this, "Where's the proof? Where's the confession?" and so on. Yet even when there is proof, even when the person actively confesses to doing the stuff they're accused of doing, they still have their defenders and still have people insisting that they shouldn't be punished. That tells me it's less about people genuinely caring about the whole "innocent until proven guilty" argument that people often like to trot out in these situations, and more about people wanting to defend a celebrity simply because, as another poster here recently said, they like the celebrity. If one doesn't like the celebrity being accused, they're far less generous in rushing to defend them and demanding proof and evidence. 

I agree with this. People choose sides. I mean for fuck sake we see it in celebrity divorces.  Remember Team Aniston? 

As far as cancelling, or as someone above said consequences, go if someone does something I find wrong I'm not going to be a fan anymore.  It won't matter to them but it matters to me.  But seeing Louis CK being awarded something after the undisputed gross things he did come to light makes me think people in the entertainment industry care less about consequences.  How anyone can listen to him and not think about what he did astounds me.  I can't look at Bill Cosby or even see his name without thinking rapist.

[Hiyo]

Quote

But for all we know Vanessa didn't want to marry Depp.

Exactly.

[angora]

Here's another section from that Rachel Zegler article, again hammering the point of why the women in the film are being asked to answer for their male co-star's actions:

Quote

Zegler was a tad more expressive in the new cover story for Elle, in which she said it was “a real gut punch” to be asked questions about Elgort’s alleged sexual misconduct, particularly when he was present at a group interview. “There are tons of people who think that you have to answer for the actions of an adult male who can speak for himself,” she said, pointing out that she was 17 when she filmed West Side Story with a 26-year-old Elgort:

I was being held accountable for accusations that not only had nothing to do with me but were made about a situation that was said to have occurred years prior to when I had met and worked with this person. With no thought to the fact that I was also 17 when I met this person, 17 when I worked with them, 17 and 18 when I had to do love scenes.

Zegler said that she and her female co-stars — including Rita Moreno, “a very iconic woman in Hollywood who has spoken about her experience with sexual assault” — were asked questions “without any thought process to our experiences as women in the industry who constantly find ourselves in close encounters with men in power.”

 

[SunnyBeBe]

10 hours ago, Columbo said:

What is Depp hoping to gain with this defamation trial beyond financial motive?

If he has Narcissistic Personality disorder, they are enraged when someone they want to control walks away from them or confronts them.  They want to be seen in a certain light and if anyone calls them out on their improper behavior they take revenge, even if it’s ill advised.  Even if they lose the case, they get that former lover’s attention, bring them stress and inflict emotional pain, which brings the narcissist pleasure.  

[Zella]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It's far easier to blame her for his acting career drying up

That's my take too. I was astonished when I saw that Depp testified his career implosion was like going from Cinderella to Quasimodo because dude is living in a fantasy land about his career if he actually thinks that's what happened. He didn't fall from the top. He has already in free-fall before this just shoved him into falling faster. 

Just based on my own friend circle and internet comments/think pieces I've read over the years, I don't think my journey from being a Depp fan to not a fan is uncommon, and it actually had nothing to do with whatever toxicity went down between him and Amber Heard because I'd stopped being a fan by then. Even the Wikipedia article on him has an entire section marked "2012-2020 Career Setbacks," which is from before any abuse allegations surfaced against him. 

He was in a string of box-office bombs, and he had developed a reputation for doing the same lazy Jack Sparrow persona in most movies. I also remember him getting really combative with an interviewer and blaming fans for his movies bombing rather than the movies themselves being turkeys. I remember when he was first cast in the Fantastic Beasts film series (again before any allegations of abuse as far as I know) and they kept his appearance a secret. I guess they thought it would be a pleasant surprise for fans, but everyone I know (including people who used to be ardent Depp fans) were just like "Ugh." 

In any event, I think he'd worn out his welcome before the abuse allegations surfaced. They just finally gave people permission to shove him out the door.  

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Depp and Heard didn't ever start dating until years after Depp and Paradis ended their relationship, so I'm not sure why Paradis is considered to be some bitter jealous woman who feels like Heard "won" something over her.

Depp and Heard started on the set of The Rum Diaries when he was still with Vanessa. 

That said, I don't think she'd go on some kind of revenge tour because of it.  Not to be stereotypical but she's French. 

[Zella]

Paradis has also remarried herself--I don't think she's pining away for what could have been. She did seem to have a grounding effect on him, but ultimately responsibility for his sobriety is on him. 

[Columbo]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

If he has Narcissistic Personality disorder, they are enraged when someone they want to control walks away from them or confronts them.  They want to be seen in a certain light and if anyone calls them out on their improper behavior they take revenge, even if it’s ill advised.  Even if they lose the case, they get that former lover’s attention, bring them stress and inflict emotional pain, which brings the narcissist pleasure.  

I don't get the psychological diagnosis? It doesn't seem to fit the Depp/Heard stuff.

[aradia22]

Quote

 It's far easier to blame her for his acting career drying up than it is for him to admit his almost 40 year love affair with alcohol and drugs are to blame.

I do think he would have kept getting chances to act in relatively high profile projects if not for the negative press. Because Hollywood loves repeatedly giving chances to white guys even if they don't make money (e.g. Armie Hammer, Chris Hemsworth, Dane DeHaan) so why wouldn't they do so with someone who had been a box office draw in the past? However, I do think he was losing the cachet to lead a movie after a lot of flops. But every actor is one McConaissance or Robert Downey Jr. Iron Man away from a comeback. 

As far as I know, the substance abuse wasn't making him too unreliable to hire. So I'm saying that his choice of bad projects where he could play dress up (that then flopped) were to blame for him being shifted to supporting roles. And it made him more reliant on people taking a chance on him unless he wanted to shell out a lot of money to finance his own projects. 

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, Zella said:

I was astonished when I saw that Depp testified his career implosion was like going from Cinderella to Quasimodo because dude is living in a fantasy land about his career if he actually thinks that's what happened. .

Yeeeeeeeeah, I read that quote somewhere and actually raised a brow all, "...really?" That's an...interesting way to put that. 

I've seen the occasional movie featuring Depp, but he was never the reason I watched them. I've never gone gaga over him the way other people did - I respect and acknowledge his talents from early on in his career, and I've liked the few movies I've seen him in, but beyond that, I've remained pretty neutral on him in general. But hearing about some of the messy stuff he's been through in recent years, it makes the accusations against him not all that surprising to me. 

8 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

As far as cancelling, or as someone above said consequences, go if someone does something I find wrong I'm not going to be a fan anymore.  It won't matter to them but it matters to me.  But seeing Louis CK being awarded something after the undisputed gross things he did come to light makes me think people in the entertainment industry care less about consequences.  How anyone can listen to him and not think about what he did astounds me.  I can't look at Bill Cosby or even see his name without thinking rapist.

The thing that kills me the most about the talk of "cancel culture" is when the people who've been "cancelled" are whining about how they've been cancelled. If you're still able to get on a public platform of some kind - social media, a stage, a commercial, a news program, etc., and complain about how "cancelled" you are, you haven't actually been cancelled. A company just decided they didn't want to work with you anymore, or a social media site kicked you off for acting like an asshole, or things of that sort. And again, they're well within their rights to do that - they have rules they have to abide by and are allowed to let go of people who don't follow them. That's not even remotely close to being cancelled, that's just a sign you need to grow up and act like a mature, decent human being. 

[pinkandsparkly13]

22 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

If someone is slapping and hitting you, the appropriate behavior is to walk away (if possible), not reciprocate the violence.

Yeah just try to walk away. There's no way that the person is going to keep coming after you and assaulting you....maybe worse .. And yes, I see that you said if possible. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I don’t think some abusers understand that domestic violence isn’t just about hitting, punching, choking, etc.  it also includes throwing objects, breaking items, etc, 

 

https://www.tmz.com/2022/04/21/johnny-depp-video-kitchen-rampage-amber-heard-shown-court-trial/

 

[Annber03]

Just now, SunnyBeBe said:

I don’t think some abusers understand that domestic violence isn’t just about hitting, punching, choking, etc.  it also includes throwing objects, breaking items, etc, 

Yep. I've heard people talk about how it can be a red flag if someone's response to anger is to always break or throw items. It's like the people who abuse animals. If they're willing to attack inanimate objects or animals so easily every time they're angry, they can just as easily turn that anger on another person eventually. 

[SunnyBeBe]

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Yep. I've heard people talk about how it can be a red flag if someone's response to anger is to always break or throw items. It's like the people who abuse animals. If they're willing to attack inanimate objects or animals so easily every time they're angry, they can just as easily turn that anger on another person eventually. 

Yes, it serves as intimidation, emotional distress and the threat of violence on them.  In my state, threatening to kill yourself in the presence of your partner is also considered domestic violence by the courts.  

[Annber03]

18 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes, it serves as intimidation, emotional distress and the threat of violence on them.  In my state, threatening to kill yourself in the presence of your partner is also considered domestic violence by the courts.  

Good. That's a very common manipulation tactic by abusers, so I'm glad that some places are taking that seriously. 

[RealHousewife]

58 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Yep. I've heard people talk about how it can be a red flag if someone's response to anger is to always break or throw items. It's like the people who abuse animals. If they're willing to attack inanimate objects or animals so easily every time they're angry, they can just as easily turn that anger on another person eventually. 

I totally get this and would be frightened if anyone threw anything in my presence. That said, in my midteens, I did throw an object or two. Never with anyone around though. It was just how I dealt with anxiety and frustration. I would never hurt a person or animal. I also remember feeling awful once I broke a snow globe after the fact. That's the one thing I remember breaking. I'm not sure if I broke anything else. I definitely didn't like my own rage, but I did have good reason to be angry. The only person I was ever a danger to was myself. 

48 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes, it serves as intimidation, emotional distress and the threat of violence on them.  In my state, threatening to kill yourself in the presence of your partner is also considered domestic violence by the courts.  

My sister's boyfriend is very unstable, and she's said he's mentioned threatening to kill himself to her. He's also threatened to do it many years ago to his parents. He does get professional help and takes medication, but I hate that she deals with all this because you just never know. I care about her boyfriend very much myself, but I'm so scared of a tragic outcome and hate that they're together for multiple reasons. All his family and friends take his mental health issues very seriously, but it takes a toll. I feel like my sister just sees a sweet, troubled man, and that's part of who he is. But she refuses to see how his issues can traumatize all of us. She wants to marry and have kids with this man. I care for him as a friend and would also be there for him as one if he needed me, but I would hate for my nieces or nephews to grow up with him as a father. I'm someone who has to work at being happy myself, and I could never be on edge with someone in fear of what they'd do during every fight. 

Regarding cancel culture, it can get annoying when people call any backlash cancel culture. But I do consider things like losing a job or being banned from a platform part of cancel culture. It doesn't mean I don't think these things need to happen sometimes, but I do think they're examples of cancel culture. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by RealHousewife

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, RealHousewife said:

I totally get this and would be frightened if anything threw anything in my presence. That said, in my midteens, I did throw an object or two. Never with anyone around though. It was just how I dealt with anxiety and frustration. I would never hurt a person or animal. I also remember feeling awful once I broke a snow globe after the fact. That's the one thing I remember breaking. I'm not sure if I broke anything else. I definitely didn't like my own rage, but I did have good reason to be angry. The only person I was ever a danger to was myself. 

Yeah, I think if it's a one off thing - somebody had a bad day and they punch their pillow, for instance, or throwing some item in their room in frustration, and they do this when nobody else is around, okay, fine. It's a momentary release of anger and frustration, it happens, no biggie. I think many people have done things like that before. 

But indeed, if that's a common reaction to one's anger, or the only way they ever seem to express their anger, and especially, as you note, if they do all of that in front of other people, or throw things when others are around, then yes, that should be cause for concern. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don’t think some abusers understand that domestic violence isn’t just about hitting, punching, choking, etc.  it also includes throwing objects, breaking items, etc, 

 

https://www.tmz.com/2022/04/21/johnny-depp-video-kitchen-rampage-amber-heard-shown-court-trial/

 

I think that far too many people don’t understand this. The explosion stage of the cycle of violence is often not physical violence and it can be years before the pattern escalates that point. That doesn’t mean the relationship isn’t still abusive.

[Columbo]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don’t think some abusers understand that domestic violence isn’t just about hitting, punching, choking, etc.  it also includes throwing objects, breaking items, etc, 

 

https://www.tmz.com/2022/04/21/johnny-depp-video-kitchen-rampage-amber-heard-shown-court-trial/

 

Do domestic violence laws cover the throwing of objects wherever Depp and Heard were living? Like could Depp be convicted of throwing objects?