S02.E04: Fair Skin, Blue Eyes

[Trini]

As Batwoman attempts to fight the proliferation of Snake Bite through Gotham, a random encounter forces her to revisit her painful past. Empowered by her new role, Ryan Wilder is determined to ensure others like her don't go unnoticed. Meanwhile, those closest to Kate are given a good reason to believe she is still alive, forcing unexpected alliances and betrayals.

Menhaj Huda directed the episode written by Ebony Gilbert.

Airdate: 2/14/2021

[scarynikki12]

The Candy Lady is the creepiest thing this show has done so far. Well done everyone.

Ryan and Mary are roomies!! The continuing story of the new BFF is joy.

Alice is still in denial about her motives to find Kate but I find it entertaining so it’s all good.

Jacob is slowly becoming a Bat ally.

Ocean’s hot. Great choice Alice.

Did they say what Ryan’s ex’s name is?

[Primal Slayer]

The Ryan/Mary scenes were pure gold and the best part of the episode.

Other than that...have the writers decided to come up with every way imaginable for Ryan to have a traumatic life? She's gone through just about every bad thing you could think of. Kidnapped, dead parents, racism, criminal past, went to prison, foster kid, foster kid with a lousy foster parent, outcast, no home. It's getting very tiresome.

It was already a stretch that the one kid that Ryan looks into is 100% connected to the person who kidnapped her only for the kid to be connected to Jacob. They should've chosen one or the other and likely drawn out finding/saving the kid for a future episode. 

The Candy Lady could've been a great reoccurring baddie but im confused, does she have a gang of her own? Did they just happen to be there when Ryan stopped by? 

[cambridgeguy]

I think Ryan's ex is named Angelique.  I've gotta say, either they dropped the ball when they escaped by not immediately calling the cops or maybe it's just GCPD incompetence once again.  If Batman was active then Jim Gordon should have been commissioner, so they should have been trying to do a good job.

And is it just me or is a 1 million dollar reward kind of on the low side?  Isn't Jacob loaded?

[UnoAgain]

I really enjoyed this episode... Candy lady was brutal... I can see how she messed up the minds of the young ones... 

[possibilities]

I wish they didn't make Our Heroes seem so dim sometimes. Alice getting Sophie's gun? Really?? Ryan going alone, with no back up of any kind and no hero tech, to rescue the kid? Jacob meeting the informant underground and solo? 

 

[UnoAgain]

I also liked how... Just like when Ryan went missing.  It was all about Bethany... When Kevin is missing.. Its all about Kate.. Even Luke was fixated on finding her.. To the point he wasn't even involved in the Bat Story this week

[AnimeMania]

I wonder if the Kryptonite is causing Ryan to hallucinate.

Ryan is supposed to know martial arts why did she have to throw that old lady down the stairs and punch her 3 times to arrest her.

The show is making the world so small, Angelique was the one that was fighting Sophie and Alice, and is working for Ocean. Angelique was the one that Ryan was covering for that caused her to go to prison.

[Primal Slayer]

36 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I wonder if the Kryptonite is causing Ryan to hallucinate.

Ryan is supposed to know martial arts why did she have to throw that old lady down the stairs and punch her 3 times to arrest her.

The show is making the world so small, Angelique was the one that was fighting Sophie and Alice, and is working for Ocean. Angelique was the one that Ryan was covering for that caused her to go to prison.

The world does feel very tiny, Gotham feels more small town then busting city.

[possibilities]

Why isn't Ryan telling anyone about her festering wound? She's past the stage of not trusting them, Mary clearly likes her, it's time to speak up.

[Lantern7]

Not much to say. Candy Lady was creepy AF. Brilliant MO, though . . . lure kids into her van, kidnap them, break their spirits without resorting to overt violence, then find new "homes" for them with local gangs. Sinister, ugly, but not as close to "Very Special Episode" territory as one would think. Of course, Ryan got saved by the girl that knew her at her new home (not the jelly bean one) that knew her for about a minute. Of course the kid in the present day was one of Candy Lady's victims. Eh, I'll let it pass.

I'm not feeling the story arc just yet, though Alice foisting herself on Sophie was fun, as was Luke coming onto their new dynamic.

Seriously hoping Vesper goes away. I have nothing against Rachel Maddow. I'm just thinking someone talking about the crap of Gotham in a bemused tone is a bit irritating. She might have worked on Gotham, but I'm not digging her here.

[MissLucas]

9 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Other than that...have the writers decided to come up with every way imaginable for Ryan to have a traumatic life? She's gone through just about every bad thing you could think of. Kidnapped, dead parents, racism, criminal past, went to prison, foster kid, foster kid with a lousy foster parent, outcast, no home. It's getting very tiresome.

Brace yourself, she seems to walk in Oliver Queen's footsteps.

[UnoAgain]

A possible love interest for Alice is a twist... As snarky psycho.. At least to me while fun is very superficial.. An LI that may actually call her on her vs and make her think and change.. That could be growth... I think i know  why Ryan isn't telling them.. Especially now that Mary has invited her into the home... Which youd expect would ve a good time.. Not that Ryan shouldn't have some reservations... I'm sure it'll be Foster Kid Trust Issues in general.. Specifically maybe fear that if she can't batwoman they'll drop her.. Its obvious they're still missing kate ( luke especially isn't making much of  an effort)  so she maybe feels like just a replacement.. And if she doesn't do everything just right they'll move on... As much fun Mary and Ryan have been Ryan may still feel like the shoe will drop... I do hope she works on it.. Or speaks to them.. Cuz sooner or later it'll bubble and blow

[mrspidey]

Wait...so DC Comics exist in the Arrowverse? There's even a series about the Green Lantern Corps? Does that mean we won't be getting actual Green Lanterns, because that would be weird?

Edited February 15, 2021 by mrspidey

[Diapason Untuned]

11 hours ago, UnoAgain said:

I really enjoyed this episode... Candy lady was brutal... I can see how she messed up the minds of the young ones... 

Yeah, the scariest thing about the Candy lady wasn't just the rotting interior disguised by the suburban veneer, it's how practiced she was at what she was doing.

The way she chose her victims, the way she lured kids into her van, the way she preyed on their fears and created artificial deadlines to sap their will to resist, it was a very realistic kind of fear.

12 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I think Ryan's ex is named Angelique.  I've gotta say, either they dropped the ball when they escaped by not immediately calling the cops or maybe it's just GCPD incompetence once again.  If Batman was active then Jim Gordon should have been commissioner, so they should have been trying to do a good job.

If every GCPD officer was as good as Jim Gordon, Gotham wouldn't have any problems in the first place.

Regarding Ryan and Angelique not going near the police afterwards, I recall the case of the Milwaukee police officers who returned one of Jeffrey Dahmer's child victims to him, even though bystanders told them he was being coerced, Dahmer was a registered child offender and he had a dead body in the house with him. If stuff like that can happen, what are the chances the GCPD would believe two street kids over a "kindly" suburban woman?

Edited February 15, 2021 by Diapason Untuned

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

The Ryan/Mary scenes were pure gold and the best part of the episode.

Other than that...have the writers decided to come up with every way imaginable for Ryan to have a traumatic life? She's gone through just about every bad thing you could think of. Kidnapped, dead parents, racism, criminal past, went to prison, foster kid, foster kid with a lousy foster parent, outcast, no home. It's getting very tiresome.

It was already a stretch that the one kid that Ryan looks into is 100% connected to the person who kidnapped her only for the kid to be connected to Jacob. They should've chosen one or the other and likely drawn out finding/saving the kid for a future episode. 

The Candy Lady could've been a great reoccurring baddie but im confused, does she have a gang of her own? Did they just happen to be there when Ryan stopped by? 

I am not looking forward to the likely Ryan was child molested/ostracized for being gay/sexually assaulted/Ryan was gay-bashed plot lines that I assume are coming to in part explain why she took up martial arts.

Candy Lady was lucky in that the False Face gang was coming to pick up Kevin because he just finished his month of being primed to accept them.

12 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I think Ryan's ex is named Angelique.  I've gotta say, either they dropped the ball when they escaped by not immediately calling the cops or maybe it's just GCPD incompetence once again.  If Batman was active then Jim Gordon should have been commissioner, so they should have been trying to do a good job.

And is it just me or is a 1 million dollar reward kind of on the low side?  Isn't Jacob loaded?

Even assuming after the immediate trauma of escaping Candy Lady, Ryan and Angelique were willing to report what happened, I can buy that GCPD would write the complaint off or just believe Candy Lady.

2 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Wait...so DC Comics exist in the Arrowverse? There's even a series about the Green Lantern Corps? Does that mean we won't be getting actual Green Lanterns, because that would be weird?

Real World comics sometimes depict real people. I would not be surprised if DC Universe has comics depicting super deeds of actual superheroes, minus the secret identity and soap opera stuff.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Also, Mary said something about being used to lesbian drama. Was she referring to being a lesbian herself? If so, had there been previous hints of that? I kind of wanted to ship her and Luke, but I wonder if they are trying to put her and Ryan together.

[possibilities]

I thought Mary was referring to observing Kate/Sophie drama, and antics of customers at the bar, but now I can't remember if there's some reason I thought she was straight before. I did think they were hinting at putting her and Luke together, but that was never made explicit, either.

[cambridgeguy]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Brace yourself, she seems to walk in Oliver Queen's footsteps.

She's even worse off than Oliver.  His crap all started when he was already a young adult while Ryan was screwed even as a kid.  Although in her little rant about white kids not getting ignored like black ones I can't believe she didn't bring up Beth being part of a rich family.  It's not just racism, it's classism too!

[Diapason Untuned]

8 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

She's even worse off than Oliver.  His crap all started when he was already a young adult while Ryan was screwed even as a kid.  Although in her little rant about white kids not getting ignored like black ones I can't believe she didn't bring up Beth being part of a rich family.  It's not just racism, it's classism too!

Exactly! Alice is still reaping the benefits of it. Her character is very interesting to watch, but it boggles my mind when she mysteriously appears and people treat her like an annoying cousin who just came to stay without warning instead of you know, shooting her on sight.

[tennisgurl]

Alright, I joked about Ryan being programmed with the Most Tragic Backstory Ever, but it seems like the writers have decided to take my sarcasm and turn it into a reality. Did they decide that to make us fully on Team Ryan that they had to outdo Kate's tragic backstory of losing her mom and her sister, being estranged from her dad, being kicked out of school because of homophobia, and getting dumped by her girlfriend? So not only was Ryan orphaned right from birth, not only was she an ignored foster kid, not only did she deal with prejudice, not only did she watch her adopted mom get murdered, not only did she do jail time for a crime she didn't commit, not only was she in a dysfunctional relationship with her drug addict girlfriend/foster sister, not only is she now homeless and unable to find work, but she was ALSO once kidnapped by a psycho human trafficker! And this is only episode four of knowing her! At least most of Oliver Queens horrific series of trauma's only started when he was a young adult, and we found out about those over the course of the whole series. Next week, will we find out that she learned martial arts to fight against a gang who beat her up on a regular basis and also killed her dog. Actually, no to the dog, fictional pets should all bath in Lazarus pits and live forever, but I am sure that the writers have about a dozen new horrible traumas to dump into her backstory. Its a good thing that Its a good thing that Javicia Leslie is a good actress and can probably handle a LOT of sad scenes. 

As over the top as the "Ryan's life is awful" stuff was, I thought this was a very good episode. They really got me, I thought that this would be an anti drug PSA episode, but it actually turned out to be a PSA about how poor kids and kids of color are forgotten by society, especially when something bad happens to them. I thought it all went pretty well, it was an interesting story and that candy lady was super flipping creepy, even if I found the actual arrangement between her and the gang to be a bit confusing, like the show was tap dancing around viewers thinking about what exactly can happen to children who are victims of human trafficking beyond being forced into joining gangs. The candy lady was a really creepy villain though, especially compared to the often over the top nature of Batman villains. Her luring vulnerable kids into her van with candy and treats and gaslighting and mentally tormenting them by preying on their insecurity is so very disturbing, and the actress was great, a really unnerving mix of seemingly pleasant and cold blooded.

 I knew right away that the junkie Alice and Sophie ran into would be the foster sister/Ryan's ex, Gothan really is a shockingly small town I suppose. The Sophie and Alice team up is working out pretty well and it gives Sophie more to do now that Kate is gone, but it is still kind of weird how chill everyone is getting with working with Alice. Alice is a ton of fun, and I get them all wanting to work together to find Kate, but lets not forget that Alice is also a deranged multi murderer who isn't exactly trustworthy. I am very interested in Alice's possible secret (and super hot) boyfriend...

I continue to really like Ryan and Mary bonding, and am glad that they finally are letting Ryan move into the club, which I what I assumed would happen since day one. The connection between the case and them continuing to look for Kate was a nice way to connect the stories, even if them also connecting it to the past search for Beth and Jacob and his search for Kate to be a bit too much of a coincidence. Again, Gotham is apparently a very small town where the same dozen or so people keep running into each other. 

[thuganomics85]

The Candy Lady certain wins the title of "goofiest villain name, but actually pretty terrifying bad guy" in this one!  The way she was able to lure her potential victims and continue to prey on their insecurities and fears was chilling and probably even realistic on some levels.  The actress did a good job with all of it for sure.  I'm glad Ryan was able to face her again and she's hopefully locked away.  But, of course, like with most criminals in Gotham, the question is how long will she actually stay there...

Javicia Leslie is definitely doing great work here, but it really is starting to feel like they're giving Ryan the world's most tragic backstory.  It's like she has been through every kind of hardship that she could possibly be put through.  And we're only in her early teen years in the flashbacks!  What is in store for her once she's in high school?  Or college age/young adult?!  I'm almost afraid to ask.

At least Ryan figured out her housing situation by being roomies with Mary!  It admittedly might be an easy fix, but I can roll with it since they've already been through a lot in these past few episodes, and Mary is definitely someone one who would help out like this.  Hope we get more of this duo going forward.

The Sophie/Alice/Luke trio was fun, even thought it was obvious that Alice would figure out that Sophie and Luke were working behind her back.  She's always one step ahead, which admittedly isn't that hard since the good guys do tend to be daft whenever the script calls for it.

Introducing not one but two potential love interests, with Ryan's former flame making a return and it being revealed that Alice might have had a thing with this Ocean guy, when she first came to the island.

Maybe spending so much time with fictional rich bigwigs has made me jaded, but I was also thinking "A million dollars kind of seems low" to Jacob's offer. 

[BaggythePanther]

I wonder if this is going to be the last we see of the Candy Lady. Because as creepy as she was, I was more so freaked out that when Ryan confronted her she looked exactly the same as she had 15 or 20 years earlier. Something else is going on.

[Quark]

Another great episode and Javicia Leslie is doing a superb job as Batwoman. If I have any criticisms, it's that the plot got rather convoluted with however everything seems to be linking together.

[MissLucas]

41 minutes ago, Quark said:

Another great episode and Javicia Leslie is doing a superb job as Batwoman. If I have any criticisms, it's that the plot got rather convoluted with however everything seems to be linking together.

Yeah, I started to think the writers room has been watching too many episodes of This Is Us.

I cheered a bit at Ryan moving in with Mary and the first thing Mary does is raiding Ryan's stash of cool jackets 🤣

[Chicago Redshirt]

I am worried that Candy Lady might put together black woman who boasted about not being broken by her looking for Kevin and black Batwoman looking for Kevin to figure out Ryan's secret.

I do like the set up of Mary and Ryan living together on the one hand, but on the other: Mary, you are a literal billionaire who has presumably also inherited Kate real estate company. Surely you can provide Ryan her own pad. Unless you are either secretly crushing on her or wanting to have her close at hand for the inevitable Alice/rando villain dropbys, in which case, well played.

[Proteus]

I still wish the show would move on from Kate already. But I enjoyed this episode.

Already shipping Alice/Ocean & Ryan/Angelique.

I miss Julia.

[akg]

Quote

I do like the set up of Mary and Ryan living together on the one hand, but on the other: Mary, you are a literal billionaire who has presumably also inherited Kate real estate company. Surely you can provide Ryan her own pad.

I liked that Mary mentioned that the rent was already paid for the near future. She can definitely cover it alone or pay rent on a separate apartment for Ryan but I don't see Ryan as being someone who would be ok with that. This gives Ryan time to save up or maybe even get comfortable letting Mary take on a bigger share of the bills.

[legaleagle53]

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, Mary said something about being used to lesbian drama. Was she referring to being a lesbian herself? If so, had there been previous hints of that? I kind of wanted to ship her and Luke, but I wonder if they are trying to put her and Ryan together.

Mary had grown up watching Kate deal with coming out and relationship drama with Sophie and Julia among other women in Kate's past. That would more than qualify her to be an expert on the subject without being a lesbian herself.

As for shipping her with Luke, I'm not seeing it. I see not one hint of romantic tension or attraction between them. Sometimes it IS possible for a straight man and a straight woman to work together as colleagues without secretly lusting for one another.

[Stardancer Supreme]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Alright, I joked about Ryan being programmed with the Most Tragic Backstory Ever, but it seems like the writers have decided to take my sarcasm and turn it into a reality. Did they decide that to make us fully on Team Ryan that they had to outdo Kate's tragic backstory of losing her mom and her sister, being estranged from her dad, being kicked out of school because of homophobia, and getting dumped by her girlfriend? So not only was Ryan orphaned right from birth, not only was she an ignored foster kid, not only did she deal with prejudice, not only did she watch her adopted mom get murdered, not only did she do jail time for a crime she didn't commit, not only was she in a dysfunctional relationship with her drug addict girlfriend/foster sister, not only is she now homeless and unable to find work, but she was ALSO once kidnapped by a psycho human trafficker! And this is only episode four of knowing her! At least most of Oliver Queens horrific series of trauma's only started when he was a young adult, and we found out about those over the course of the whole series. Next week, will we find out that she learned martial arts to fight against a gang who beat her up on a regular basis and also killed her dog. Actually, no to the dog, fictional pets should all bath in Lazarus pits and live forever, but I am sure that the writers have about a dozen new horrible traumas to dump into her backstory. Its a good thing that Its a good thing that Javicia Leslie is a good actress and can probably handle a LOT of sad scenes. 

As over the top as the "Ryan's life is awful" stuff was, I thought this was a very good episode. They really got me, I thought that this would be an anti drug PSA episode, but it actually turned out to be a PSA about how poor kids and kids of color are forgotten by society, especially when something bad happens to them. I thought it all went pretty well, it was an interesting story and that candy lady was super flipping creepy, even if I found the actual arrangement between her and the gang to be a bit confusing, like the show was tap dancing around viewers thinking about what exactly can happen to children who are victims of human trafficking beyond being forced into joining gangs. The candy lady was a really creepy villain though, especially compared to the often over the top nature of Batman villains. Her luring vulnerable kids into her van with candy and treats and gaslighting and mentally tormenting them by preying on their insecurity is so very disturbing, and the actress was great, a really unnerving mix of seemingly pleasant and cold blooded.

Agreed!  Writers, I am firmly on Team Ryan; no need to litter her backstory with even more trauma.  This episode was great!  Just let Ryan be Batwoman and fight for those who can't fight for themselves.  I'm sure she would have looked for that child even without the connection to that horrible woman.

I too am just shaking my head with how Alice gets to traipse around relatively untouched.  I am enjoying her zaniness for the moment...

Ryan won't be able to hide that kryptonite wound for long since she now lives with Mary. I fully expect one more episode before Ryan's injury presents itself or compromises her Batwoman duties.

[possibilities]

I didn't realize the ex girlfriend was also the one stealing from the clinic! How did I miss that??

I do like that Ryan's background is helping her solve cases.  I hope they stop piling on, but I do like that she's becoming an asset even without the suit or high tech gadgetry. It's important that she's not just an interchangeable stand in, but has something to offer the team that comes from herself, not just the magic of the batcave or the support of the team.

I think Mary really wants a sister, so part of the move in was for the fun of it, from her perspective. I mean, yes, obvously it was to help Ryan get housed. But I also think Mary genuinely is lonely. She also lost a parent and a sister recently.

 

[AnimeMania]

Since Sophie arrested Ryan, that is probably why she recognized Angelique. Angelique was probably hiding around in the background trying not to become a suspect.

[Rushmoras]

This was the last episode for me, if I'm honest. Not gonna watch anylonger. The show lost its charm for me. Gonna finish-up with Supergirl's last season and it will be all over for me and the Arrowerse. 💤

[quarks]

1. So I know this can be sorta handwaved as "Crisis and Spectre Oliver changed everything," but is anyone else mildly bothered by the fact that the Batman and Joker were apparently huge front page headlines on a frequent basis just ten years back - that is, at about the same time when Arrow was trying to tell us that costumed vigilantes were a new thing?

2. Speaking of Arrow and Oliver Queen, this show is really trying to go out of its way to surpass Oliver's Tragic Backstory Of Endless Trauma, isn't it? I'm more than half expecting the next episode to show us someone smashing seven cute little puppies right in front of Ryan.

3. And speaking of Ryan, come on now - by this point, you have to know that confronting a villain without backup is a terrible, terrible plan. And sure, I realize that Candy Lady didn't exactly come off as a physical threat, but given that she also had a long kidnapping history, probably not someone to underestimate, either.

4. And speaking of Candy Lady, wow, creepy and great. Hopefully not just a one-off villain, either - she was one of the most effective villains we've ever seen on the Arrowverse.

5. And speaking of the Arrowverse again, and specifically the comic book question: it's canon that Central City sells little Flash and Green Arrow action figures, so I'm not surprised that Central City is selling comic books that might - might - feature various Arrowverse comic book characters. Again, though, the real surprise is seeing Green Lantern comics sold years back, given the way Arrow was actively hostile to me, personally, about Green Lantern teases just shortly after little Ryan would have seen that comic. Which is to say, consistency, not a strong thing in these shows.

6. And speaking of green things, Ryan, I realize you - understandably! - have trust issues. But if you have enough trust in Mary to agree to share an apartment with her (not incidentally helping WB save on set costs, thank you for your generosity, Ryan!) you should have enough trust to go to her and say, hey, I have this glowing unhealed wound in me, can we do something about this? Do we still have contact with Supergirl and Friends?

7. And speaking of Mary, she's still The Best. 

[Trini]

I have a lot of similar comments as some of y'all:

Why the trauma porn for Ryan??

Not having backup with you in Gotham of all places!

No one shooting or at least trying to arrest Alice makes no sense.

Candy Lady - a horrible villain in the package of a motherly white woman. Who has managed to keep up her scheme for decades!

Ryan having a (indirect) past connection to Beth/Alice and Angelique seemingly also being connected to Ocean all is rather contrived. Well, moreso than usual for these shows. I get that the writers feel they have to do this since Ryan is completely unconnected to Kate and everyone else, but I feel it's going to be super annoying when they keep doing it.

Featuring actual DC comics in the show was really weird (and on one level just doesn't make sense) since they're usually more subtle about that kind of thing. Or they'll use more obscure titles; but they had 'Green Lantern' right there in the foreground.

But I like Mary and Ryan becoming closer friends. I guess we'll see the relationship with them that we didn't really get with Kate/Mary.

When I heard about Ocean (from the casting announcement) I figured he was probably connected to Safiyah/Coryana somehow, but I was not expecting him to be a (past?) love interest for Alice! That's a swerve. I thought he was going to be a love interest for Mary.

There was a lot to nitpick, but I did actually like the main story of Ryan rescuing Kevin, and that she had a connection to him.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Trini

[Trini]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

... I do like that Ryan's background is helping her solve cases.  I hope they stop piling on, but I do like that she's becoming an asset even without the suit or high tech gadgetry. It's important that she's not just an interchangeable stand in, but has something to offer the team that comes from herself, not just the magic of the batcave or the support of the team.  ...

This is a really good point; it's good that she's bringing in skills and knowledge that isn't the same as Kate's, or isn't already covered by another character. But yes, I don't want every connection she has to the underworld to be coming from a traumatic incident in her past.

 

On 2/14/2021 at 10:36 PM, possibilities said:

I wish they didn't make Our Heroes seem so dim sometimes. Alice getting Sophie's gun? Really?? Ryan going alone, with no back up of any kind and no hero tech, to rescue the kid? Jacob meeting the informant underground and solo?

On 2/15/2021 at 12:07 PM, tennisgurl said:

... The Sophie and Alice team up is working out pretty well and it gives Sophie more to do now that Kate is gone, but it is still kind of weird how chill everyone is getting with working with Alice. ...

On 2/15/2021 at 1:41 PM, thuganomics85 said:

... The Sophie/Alice/Luke trio was fun, even thought it was obvious that Alice would figure out that Sophie and Luke were working behind her back.  She's always one step ahead, which admittedly isn't that hard since the good guys do tend to be daft whenever the script calls for it. ...

I'm actually a bit worried for Sophie. To use an analogy, she like a passenger in this storyline, and not the driver. I appreciate that they are keeping her around and are giving her screentime, but I don't feel like she's actually doing anything or is integral to this season's larger arcs. And yeah, her tolerating Alice is dumb.

 

On 2/15/2021 at 10:11 AM, possibilities said:

... but now I can't remember if there's some reason I thought she was straight before. I did think they were hinting at putting her and Luke together, but that was never made explicit, either.

20 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

... As for shipping her with Luke, I'm not seeing it. I see not one hint of romantic tension or attraction between them. Sometimes it IS possible for a straight man and a straight woman to work together as colleagues without secretly lusting for one another.

I don't know if this is still a spoiler since it came out before they had to rewrite the season around Ryan, but

Spoiler

the first season 2 synopsis said that a romance was going change the dynamic of Luke and Mary; and the showrunner said in an interview that there would be some type of love triangle. 

But now everyone is in various stages of mourning Kate, so I think those plans are postponed; if not gone altogether.

I wouldn't mind if they explored them as potential couple, for the record. I think they have good chemistry.

[Stardancer Supreme]

I don't see the potential relationship between Luke and Mary.  If anything, he seems to be pining quite hard for Kate, despite her preference.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 2/16/2021 at 1:46 PM, quarks said:

 

7. And speaking of Mary, she's still The Best. 

There should be a "And now...Sophie" section to your commentary. I think she is an even worse character than OG Laurel. 

[Trini]

22 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

There should be a "And now...Sophie" section to your commentary. I think she is an even worse character than OG Laurel. 

I don't know about Laurel, but this show definitely needs at least one character that not all dark and moody all the time, and Mary fits the bill.

[UnoAgain]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

There should be a "And now...Sophie" section to your commentary. I think she is an even worse character than OG Laurel. 

I loved OG Laurel.. I liked nu Laurel as well tho... I'm also colored tho by the rabid felicity fans who.. Well the worst.. I had to leave the arrow boards because of them... Sophie tho.. I guess I'm happy that I can have a black character on a show I'm completely ambivalent to.. For me that's progress... 

[Trini]

::facepalm emoji:: Saw ChicagoRedshirt's comment and thought it was about Mary; I really shouldn't type half asleep.

Anyway, Sophie's fine, but the love interest role can be a thankless one, especially now that Kate is gone. They just need to really pin down what her new role is within the show; give her some purpose. Something related to Batwoman, or Gotham in general.

[John Potts]

I'm glad Batwoman started investigating Missing people rather than drug gangs. Knocking out drug dealers is unlikely to do much (and is something the GCPD & Crows are doing anyway), but chasing up on missing poor kids is exactly the sort of thing she should be doing to make a difference (even without creepy candy lady).

There's a great moment in Firefly when one of the characters (Zoe) says "This is something the Captain has to do by himself" only for him to immediately reply, "No it's not!" Yet both Ryan and Jacob walk into traps without telling anyone despite being perfectly capable of doing so. Do they both have a death wish?

On 2/15/2021 at 2:08 AM, Primal Slayer said:

have the writers decided to come up with every way imaginable for Ryan to have a traumatic life? She's gone through just about every bad thing you could think of. Kidnapped, dead parents, racism, criminal past, went to prison, foster kid, foster kid with a lousy foster parent, outcast, no home.

Well she doesn't have a physical disability, so maybe that festering wound will cause her to lose her arm? Shame she doesn't know somebody who runs an underground clinic...

 

[legaleagle53]

44 minutes ago, John Potts said:

Well she doesn't have a physical disability, so maybe that festering wound will cause her to lose her arm? Shame she doesn't know somebody who runs an underground clinic...

Or knows of anybody who's had some first-hand experience with Kryptonite poisoning... .